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| Ants eat and kill others species exactly like humans do or Gon did. |
lebron181 said: jreginald said: lebron181 said: jreginald said: Yeah, I was pretty sad after seeing Pitou dead. I mean, I wanted him dead as soon as I saw him playing with Kite's head and I had anything but pity for him when I read this in the manga but seeing it again, I felt bad for the cat. I really liked Pitou's design (and character overall). R.I.P. Pitou Pitou partook in killing millions of innocent people. The ants were a threat to human society. They should have been killed earlier and shouldn't be given compassionate. But since you enjoy Hisoka, he kills without guilty conscience. Lol you act like this is real life. I enjoy their characters because they are INTERESTING. A lot of it has to do with the character design alone (how they look) but I also liked Pitou because of his personality and because of how strong he was. I thought Meruem was a little dickbag for killing little kids and a bunch of ants but the King grew on me because of his awesome ass development. Geez, I wonder how you feel about people that find real life serial killers interesting. Also, that's not even close to why I like Hisoka. I also find serial killers interesting, but I do not have compassion for those who take other's life even in fictional sense. I may enjoy Pitou but would never pity their death. And not once did I say that I admire characters that did that. There's nothing wrong with being sad over a character that you liked. And for the record, I was rooting for Gon the whole way. Your bit about Hisoka was still off and ignorant. I always liked Hisoka because I thought he was a cool character. Moments like when he used Texture Surprise to change his fortune to avoid being exposed to the Troupe are why I admire Hisoka as a character. I found the way he'd hound over strong opponents and get boners from Gon to be weird as hell but it only added to his character and I found them amusing. |
| Does anyone know the song that plays when Gon tells Pitou he's going to kill her? It's the same song that played during the Netero/Meruem fight. As soon as that song came on, I know sh*t was gonna get real. I don't know if it's just me, but I kind of felt bad for Pitou when you see the close-up of her face completely destroyed, and seeing her just sitting there, not even trying to save herself. |
RapeGod said: Does anyone know the song that plays when Gon tells Pitou he's going to kill her? It's the same song that played during the Netero/Meruem fight. As soon as that song came on, I know sh*t was gonna get real. You mean this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb8Sf5-tS5s ? |
| This whole "they killed people" argument regarding the ants seems a little off. Remember, to the ants we are/were lower life forms, a food supply just like cattle or chickens or hogs. Meruem himself said it best in episode 93: "Have you ever spared a pig or a cow as it begged for it's life?" That line right there totally put into perspective for me how I should look at their actions. Obviously, he himself has started to see things a little differently or at least was before he was bombed (by a human weapon, I might add). But I think it's still an important piece of dialogue. Personally, I think it's pretty boring to just look at this situation from the viewpoint of the humans. Especially when Togashi went to great pains to show both sides of this conflict, I don't like simplifying things to "Ant = Bad, Humans = Good". |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
insan3Spectre said: This whole "they killed people" argument regarding the ants seems a little off. Remember, to the ants we are/were lower life forms, a food supply just like cattle or chickens or hogs. Meruem himself said it best in episode 93: "Have you ever spared a pig or a cow as it begged for it's life?" That line right there totally put into perspective for me how I should look at their actions. Obviously, he himself has started to see things a little differently or at least was before he was bombed (by a human weapon, I might add). But I think it's still an important piece of dialogue. Personally, I think it's pretty boring to just look at this situation from the viewpoint of the humans. Especially when Togashi went to great pains to show both sides of this conflict, I don't like simplifying things to "Ant = Bad, Humans = Good". For me, i think like that too. But you see, i also think more deep, about that. The fact that they killed people cannot be denied. And that was judged from us as human being. For us who will do anything to keep our standing on top of food chain, something like those CA is not allowed to exist. Personally, they are bad because they are ant, so simple but so deep at the same time. Fit for us human. There is no way an intelligent being like us would allow it when there are superior being wanna treat us like a lower class being. And for me, that was exactly what Netero implied to Meruem. Meruem mistake is he born as Chimera Ant, no matter how good his intention, human will never allow him to become a King. That was human malice that Netero was talking about. |
| Yeah, I know and I see what you mean. I just thought it would be a good idea to try to put into perspective the Ant's side of things. But, yeah, the Human's never wanting to ever be lower on the food chain and doing anything to stop that is another extremely interesting layer to this arc. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| Lol what? That makes humans all the worse; they are methodical, and If I may bring something from the Matrix, we don't maintain equilibrium with the system like other species. So yeah, the ants in that sense are definitely no worse than humans. |
| that was great.Best episode |
cantius said: Here's the thing, Human Beings should not be compared to pigs/cows. There was nothing off about the spectrum of killing things. Can pigs build rockets, drive cars, build foundations? No. What that guy above is saying is he is perplexed as to why one would feel pity about a character who had it coming, especially someone who was a malicious murderer. Shit, you may liket he character but saying your sad to seeing Pitou go is kind of... odd. Ants have been shown to drive cars, given time they would almost certainly be able to do things like your other two examples as well. When I say time, though, I mean in probably a much shorter period. I think the fact that they have been shown to learn and grow faster than us humans and see us as a food source is precisely why we humans see them as such a threat. Because, like humans are superior to pigs/cows, Ants as a species are superior to us. This isn't even including the Royal Guard members like Youpi who showed a staggering ability to adapt in his battle with the Hunters and the King who has evolved to a crazy degree since he learned to love the bomb. When Pitou was first born she was acting on instinct. When she attacked Kite and eventually revived him I think she was playing with her prey much like the Cat she is partially made from, it's just it is much more scary when she has the human intelligence to back it all up and come to the conclusion to revive him so she can keep "playing" with him. However, I personally grew to enjoy how she seemed to be supportive of the King's relationship with Komugi and his questions of identity. Yes, you can argue that it was because she was "programmed" biologically to be supportive of her King, but the way she handled her loyalty was still different from the others and it was why I could relate to her a bit more than the other Guards. Btw, it's interesting to me how Pitou's brand of loyalty may have been what indirectly caused her to get killed. After all, she could have almost certainly killed Gon at any point if she wasn't so concerned for Komugi's safety. And it's still somewhat ambiguous as to whether she was being respectful to Gon when she told him the truth last episode or was trying to rub salt in his wounds in order to psyche him out. Maybe a bit of both. |
Ston3_FreeN7May 31, 2014 1:47 AM
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| I certainly don't understand why having sympathy for Pitou(and villains/antagonists in general) is odd. Togashi's always made cool, interesting, and sympathetic villains. And that goes back to Yu Yu Hakusho, as well. I'd even argue that Kite was attacking the Nest in the first place, so she had every right to defend it. That aside, I think she definitely changed over the course of the arc, just like the King(and even Youpi), for all the reasons that insan3Spectre pointed out. |
Mormegil said: I certainly don't understand why having sympathy for Pitou(and villains/antagonists in general) is odd. Togashi's always made cool, interesting, and sympathetic villains. And that goes back to Yu Yu Hakusho, as well. I'd even argue that Kite was attacking the Nest in the first place, so she had every right to defend it. That aside, I think she definitely changed over the course of the arc, just like the King(and even Youpi), for all the reasons that insan3Spectre pointed out. Exactly! I really do hate Pitou before but seeing how devoted he is to his king makes me feel bad about his death. Well i do understand all the hate that is coming from because of what he did to kite just to test his capacity but then again we can also see his character development over the course of the story. PS. I'm in love with this episode |
| The world is not what it seems. |
Mod Edit: Use spoiler tag please. |
julyanMay 31, 2014 6:55 AM
| If I drive for you, you get your money. You tell me where we start, where we're going, where we're going afterwards. I give you five minutes when we get there. Anything happens in that five minutes and I'm yours. No matter what. Anything a minute on either side of that and you're on your own. I don't sit in while you're running it down. I don't carry a gun. I drive. |
| Lol. Gon becomes stronger than the King because 1 guy died. Too bad all the other characters couldn't do that, I guess they're not willingful enough to sacrifice their ability to use nen FOR THE SAKE OF HUMANITY. The fight was nice though. Lol at Gon's hair. |
| Ugh how many times do I have to say Gon didn't become as strong as the King? And he was the only enhancer there bar Netero who was way past his prime. You couls judge that just by looking at the damage done. A little stronger than Uvo. That's all. ;) |
TonyTonyStark said: Ugh how many times do I have to say Gon didn't become as strong as the King? And he was the only enhancer there bar Netero who was way past his prime. You couls judge that just by looking at the damage done. A little stronger than Uvo. That's all. ;) Haven't been on MAL for a while, not gonna read 31 pages of what I would assume be fanboying, manga people trying to clear things up and people complaining. I'm just stating what Pitou said in the anime, whether it be right or wrong, Pitou stated it and that's enough for me to believe so. |
Paul said: TonyTonyStark said: Ugh how many times do I have to say Gon didn't become as strong as the King? And he was the only enhancer there bar Netero who was way past his prime. You couls judge that just by looking at the damage done. A little stronger than Uvo. That's all. ;) Haven't been on MAL for a while, not gonna read 31 pages of what I would assume be fanboying, manga people trying to clear things up and people complaining. I'm just stating what Pitou said in the anime, whether it be right or wrong, Pitou stated it and that's enough for me to believe so. Well to begin; a character saying something doesn't make it true. Especially one as crazy obsessive as a royal guard. Second, the official translations meant: this one's fangs could have truly reached the King, it was simply a callback to episode 125 when Pitou thought he's a potential danger. The episode kept messing it up about how he's as strong as the King now. |
| That same malice is still there, but now it's just coming from the humans. Also, you call it bipolar, we call it duality. Monster or Man? It's the whole point of the arc. And Pitou didn't really have much development. The changes in him were just a fleshing out of his character. It was just to further show his loyalty towards the king. The only development I saw was his honesty with Gon when he was telling him that Kite was dead. And that was more of a "parting words" deal because he thought Gon was minced meat by then. |
jreginaldMay 31, 2014 8:44 AM
| This was the best episode in this series so far. |
Paul said: TonyTonyStark said: Ugh how many times do I have to say Gon didn't become as strong as the King? And he was the only enhancer there bar Netero who was way past his prime. You couls judge that just by looking at the damage done. A little stronger than Uvo. That's all. ;) Haven't been on MAL for a while, not gonna read 31 pages of what I would assume be fanboying, manga people trying to clear things up and people complaining. I'm just stating what Pitou said in the anime, whether it be right or wrong, Pitou stated it and that's enough for me to believe so. You're fighting a losing battle, as none of them will listen to your reasons. As for me, I do take Pitou's words at face value (or very very dependable). Pitou was hit point blank by the King with the full intention of killing her, so I'm sure she has a pretty good idea of what the King is capable of (not to mention her proficiency at En). Even then, the King's attack didn't do nearly as much damage as Gon's. Many are right that it could be a mistranslation issue, but what has been shown definitely does not place that statement as far-fetched. insan3Spectre said: This whole "they killed people" argument regarding the ants seems a little off. Remember, to the ants we are/were lower life forms, a food supply just like cattle or chickens or hogs. Meruem himself said it best in episode 93: "Have you ever spared a pig or a cow as it begged for it's life?" That line right there totally put into perspective for me how I should look at their actions. Obviously, he himself has started to see things a little differently or at least was before he was bombed (by a human weapon, I might add). But I think it's still an important piece of dialogue. Personally, I think it's pretty boring to just look at this situation from the viewpoint of the humans. Especially when Togashi went to great pains to show both sides of this conflict, I don't like simplifying things to "Ant = Bad, Humans = Good". Interesting viewpoint, but I am among those who felt no sympathy for the ants. Simply put: a horrible viewpoint does not change the actions performed and does not excuse it either. Many human dictators probably view their subjects in no better light, but I won't show any sympathy or understanding for their actions. Mod Edit: Merged duplicated posts; please use the edit button. |
MellowJelloMay 31, 2014 12:20 PM
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
insan3Spectre said: This whole "they killed people" argument regarding the ants seems a little off. Remember, to the ants we are/were lower life forms, a food supply just like cattle or chickens or hogs. Meruem himself said it best in episode 93: "Have you ever spared a pig or a cow as it begged for it's life?" That line right there totally put into perspective for me how I should look at their actions. Obviously, he himself has started to see things a little differently or at least was before he was bombed (by a human weapon, I might add). But I think it's still an important piece of dialogue. Personally, I think it's pretty boring to just look at this situation from the viewpoint of the humans. Especially when Togashi went to great pains to show both sides of this conflict, I don't like simplifying things to "Ant = Bad, Humans = Good". Interesting viewpoint, but I am among those who felt no sympathy for the ants. Simply put: a horrible viewpoint does not change the actions performed and does not excuse it either. Many human dictators probably view their subjects in no better light, but I won't show any sympathy or understanding for their actions. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| It isn't "human dictators" it's all human society that is the same as ants: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfGMYdalClU "What's the difference between human and ants ? after having chosen this as trump card , could Netero really have said this thought hadn't appeared within his mind" Episode 127, I think or chapter 298. |
GuilekMay 31, 2014 11:16 AM
jreginald said: Not too many hunters have the same amount of potential that Gon has. Not every character went through the same emotional shit that Gon went through. Not every character has the resolve Gon did throughout this entire arc. Before you keep posting, do yourself a favor and read everything in this thread. Those are probably the best and thorough explanations you could ever find on this subject. And I would advise you to read my comments before you keep posting because I already addressed all that. "Having the potential" is irrelevant because in that situation they have nothing to lose and have no idea what their gain would be anyway. You don't dismiss a last resort when you have nothing left to lose. They would have no idea what they would gain, but whatever it is would be more power than they have at the moment. SaSa-Zoldyck said: Why did Gon have to use Komugi as a hostage if he could powerup? Because he never had it in mind to do so until he realized that Kite couldn't be healed. Why did Gon attempt to fight Youpi then? Also, the limitation was not that he could only fight against Pitou but that he would only use this ability against Pitou (much like how Kurapika can only use his Chain Jail on the Troupe, he could still fight other people using all of his other abilities) Gon was willing to face Youpi without powering up, so it is clear that the power up was not on his mind at that moment. Also, the anime is yet to state the exact vow Gon made. That is what I am waiting for because it could make or break this case. Why didn’t any other nen users do something similar to Gon when backed into a corner? Because it’s impossible to make a nen vow in the heat of battle. To make a vow a person must have a strong resolve, be able to think of a power in line with his nen hatsu and come up with appropriate vow or limitation to meet this desired power (all while fighting someone). We have seen that Gon and Killua were training for months to master basic nen techniques. Kurapika had to feel, tast, smell and sleep with chains for a long time before he could conjurer them. Nothing comes easy in this system. Why would it be a different case for the rules concerning nen vows? A problem with that is that Gon didn't make a vow for an "ability", he made a vow for "potential" which every nen user theoretically has (regardless of just how much). And your first point is exactly the problem I have with this: how he could make such a vow on the spot. The presentation makes it pretty clear that it was an "in the moment thing". "That's it. I'll use everything," makes it clear that he made that decision at that moment, and wouldn't make sense if he had already made a vow prior and sacrificed something else or even "just a portion" instead of "everything." So that means that Togashi either used it get himself out of a hole or there is a valid reason yet to be given. Cheetu made a power (the crossbow thing) in the midst of battle, but that was an ability and not accumulation of potential as Gon did, and didn't have any vows to go with it. What Gon did removes any implied restrictions to only gaining abilities, but opens the door to a wide number of pretty questionable possibilities. Time becomes irrelevant as a character could draw power from any era (and depending on what exactly Gon sacrificed, the sacrifice could pale in contrast to the power gained.) I'll say it right now that if Gon did not in fact sacrifice everything (both his life and nen meaning that he is literally at death's door), then this does in fact appear to be an asspull (and once again, I don't want manga spoilers. If it is yet to be explained, then I will patiently wait for the explanation). Unlike most of the others, I am willing to reserve my judgement until everything is actually shown instead of jumping to conclusions. I am very interested to see how Gon is going to get out of this. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| If you are a random nen user who don't wan to die, you will not sacrifice everything for power because you will die too. If you are a conjurer, you'll be not become Hulk but create a good weapon with your vow and limitation but it's pointless because you don't want to die so you won't sacrifice your life. If you are a random enchancer, you will gain nothing because you have no potential and again, you don't want to die so you won't sacrifice yourself. |
Guilek said: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfGMYdalClU Gawd. That was disturbing—especially the first 2 minutes. Just before the point at which the aliens arrived, I was thinking of 'The Nameless Monster' story from 'Monster.' |
 |
| i can't wait for next arc -_- |
Guilek said: If you are a random nen user who don't wan to die, you will not sacrifice everything for power because you will die too. If you are a conjurer, you'll be not become Hulk but create a good weapon with your vow and limitation but it's pointless because you don't want to die so you won't sacrifice your life. If you are a random enchancer, you will gain nothing because you have no potential and again, you don't want to die so you won't sacrifice yourself. So....you are going to die, but you won't sacrifice power because you are going to die? Doesn't add up. Especially since it is clear that you don't have to sacrifice everything. Sacrificing 10 years to get out of a assured-death situation sounds like an amazing deal from God himself for anyone in that situation. You could even just sacrifice your nen apparently, and leave you life intact. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: snip- Gon makes a vow for ability.... His hatsu most likely temporarily gain his own full raw potential by forcefully reinforcing his age. That of course impossible under normal condition, thus he make a limit that he sacrificed his nen and his own age, so the result is one time only beast mode. I thought that's a pretty simple ability. It's jut the risk that too high. And Cheetuh is pretty much the fail one... That's more evident that creating new hatsu in the heat of battle will bound to fail, and he is CA, he learn so fast. Gon sacrifice pretty much everything, Didn't Pitou said that Gon's ability was sacrificed everything and most likely Gon will not able to use nen again...That's why Pitou relieved because he was the one who targeted by Gon. |
RedRoseFring said: Guilek said: If you are a random nen user who don't wan to die, you will not sacrifice everything for power because you will die too. If you are a conjurer, you'll be not become Hulk but create a good weapon with your vow and limitation but it's pointless because you don't want to die so you won't sacrifice your life. If you are a random enchancer, you will gain nothing because you have no potential and again, you don't want to die so you won't sacrifice yourself. So....you are going to die, but you won't sacrifice power because you are going to die? Doesn't add up. Especially since it is clear that you don't have to sacrifice everything. Sacrificing 10 years to get out of a assured-death situation sounds like an amazing deal from God himself for anyone in that situation. You could even just sacrifice your nen apparently, and leave you life intact. There is difference between being in a deadly situation and risk your life you can die but you could be saved like Knuckle in the last moment, you could run and live or run and die like Ponzu, you could be heal like Shoot, there is always a chance of living. But if you suicide yourself with a nen ability, you die and there is no hope. Again sacrifice yourself for gain your potential is useless except if your are one of the few rare talent. If zushi sacrifice everything/all his potential to make a good puppet, he will still die because he is weak and he'll have no chance to live but he could have been saved before. And Wing like a good teacher told him, it useless like he told Gon. And except if you are crazy avengers, there is no point to die with your enemy, you want to live so you run of fight normally. |
GuilekMay 31, 2014 12:27 PM
| More than 30 pages of b!tching about the vow/limitation and it being asspull thing "sigh" it's sad really :( RedRoseFring said: So....you are going to die, but you won't sacrifice power because you are going to die? Doesn't add up. Especially since it is clear that you don't have to sacrifice everything. Sacrificing 10 years to get out of a assured-death situation sounds like an amazing deal from God himself for anyone in that situation. You could even just sacrifice your nen apparently, and leave you life intact. It's more than just sacrificing stuff otherwise Gon would be alright, the backlash from your vow/sacrifice will come in proportion which you'll see when we see Gon again. |
 |
MShukyDeneuve said: RedRoseFring said: snip- Gon makes a vow for ability.... His hatsu most likely temporarily gain his own full raw potential by forcefully reinforcing his age. That of course impossible under normal condition, thus he make a limit that he sacrificed his nen and his own age, so the result is one time only beast mode. I thought that's a pretty simple ability. It's jut the risk that too high. And Cheetuh is pretty much the fail one... That's more evident that creating new hatsu in the heat of battle will bound to fail, and he is CA, he learn so fast. Gon sacrifice pretty much everything, Didn't Pitou said that Gon's ability was sacrificed everything and most likely Gon will not able to use nen again...That's why Pitou relieved because he was the one who targeted by Gon. That is exactly the point: we don't know yet. They mentioned "everything", but we don't know what everything is. Depending on that, it could be very problematic. Guilek said: There is difference between being in a deadly situation and risk your life you can die but you could be saved like Knuckle in the last moment, you could run and live or run and die like Ponzu, you could be heal like Shoot, there is always a chance of living. But if you suicide yourself with a nen ability, you die and there is no hope. Again sacrifice yourself for gain your potential is useless except if your are one of the few rare talent. If zushi sacrifice everything/all his potential to make a good puppet, he will still die because he is weak and he'll have no chance to live but he could have been saved before. And Wing like a good teacher told him, it useless like he told Gon. And except if you are crazy avengers, there is no point to die with your enemy, you want to live so you run of fight normally. Yes, and that difference has been reached multiple times by multiple characters. Shoot's for example was basically a guaranteed death situation, and if he could sacrifice a measly (using that adjective to put it into perspective) 10 years of his life to live for much much longer, it becomes a BS moment. There are 3 points to this you are ignoring: 1. Gon said "everything", so it is possible to sacrifice "just a little bit", or "a lot" instead of everything and still have some left over. 2. It could be that you could only sacrifice your life, or only your nen, or both. If it were the first 2 cases, then this becomes even more so problematic. 3. Death is death, but sacrificing life for the smallest chance you will live is better, as in far far better than doing nothing at all. No one cares if they only have a pistol with 2 bullets to face a bear rather than a fully loaded machine gun, they would still use it. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: MShukyDeneuve said: RedRoseFring said: snip- Gon makes a vow for ability.... His hatsu most likely temporarily gain his own full raw potential by forcefully reinforcing his age. That of course impossible under normal condition, thus he make a limit that he sacrificed his nen and his own age, so the result is one time only beast mode. I thought that's a pretty simple ability. It's jut the risk that too high. And Cheetuh is pretty much the fail one... That's more evident that creating new hatsu in the heat of battle will bound to fail, and he is CA, he learn so fast. Gon sacrifice pretty much everything, Didn't Pitou said that Gon's ability was sacrificed everything and most likely Gon will not able to use nen again...That's why Pitou relieved because he was the one who targeted by Gon. That is exactly the point: we don't know yet. They mentioned "everything", but we don't know what everything is. Depending on that, it could be very problematic. Guilek said: There is difference between being in a deadly situation and risk your life you can die but you could be saved like Knuckle in the last moment, you could run and live or run and die like Ponzu, you could be heal like Shoot, there is always a chance of living. But if you suicide yourself with a nen ability, you die and there is no hope. Again sacrifice yourself for gain your potential is useless except if your are one of the few rare talent. If zushi sacrifice everything/all his potential to make a good puppet, he will still die because he is weak and he'll have no chance to live but he could have been saved before. And Wing like a good teacher told him, it useless like he told Gon. And except if you are crazy avengers, there is no point to die with your enemy, you want to live so you run of fight normally. Yes, and that difference has been reached multiple times by multiple characters. Shoot's for example was basically a guaranteed death situation, and if he could sacrifice a measly (using that adjective to put it into perspective) 10 years of his life to live for much much longer, it becomes a BS moment. There are 3 points to this you are ignoring: 1. Gon said "everything", so it is possible to sacrifice "just a little bit", or "a lot" instead of everything and still have some left over. 2. It could be that you could only sacrifice your life, or only your nen, or both. If it were the first 2 cases, then this becomes even more so problematic. 3. Death is death, but sacrificing life for the smallest chance you will live is better, as in far far better than doing nothing at all. No one cares if they only have a pistol with 2 bullets to face a bear rather than a fully loaded machine gun, they would still use it. What, everything is everything... it is means ALL... just a little bit or a lot didn't means all. Sacrificed his Nen is already a huge blow, and when it said sacrifice a person nen, it is means that person will pay by Nen. You know what, the DEFAULT rule if you violating your vow and limitation is you lose your nen ability(Hatsu), such is still considered weak resolve, that's why Kurapika added that he will die if he violated his own vows and limitations. RedRoseFring said: Guilek said: If you are a random nen user who don't wan to die, you will not sacrifice everything for power because you will die too. If you are a conjurer, you'll be not become Hulk but create a good weapon with your vow and limitation but it's pointless because you don't want to die so you won't sacrifice your life. If you are a random enchancer, you will gain nothing because you have no potential and again, you don't want to die so you won't sacrifice yourself. So....you are going to die, but you won't sacrifice power because you are going to die? Doesn't add up. Especially since it is clear that you don't have to sacrifice everything. Sacrificing 10 years to get out of a assured-death situation sounds like an amazing deal from God himself for anyone in that situation. You could even just sacrifice your nen apparently, and leave you life intact. Gain Hatsu just because you wanna escape death is futile. Especially if you are so picky about it like sacrifice 5 years, 10 years, your fingers, your hair... That is such weak resolve. And it already stated over and over that Gon sacrificed everything, and he obviously didn't create his hatsu in the middle of battle. You in the door of death, so you freely sacrifice your 5 years in order to survive and create new hatsu...That's so much asspull. what about the ability itself? how you gonna use it? what it's effect? how to manifest it? the requirement of that ability?. If you didn't think of that, you will pretty much gain something like Cheetuh's NORMAL bow and claw. |
FlashofthebackMay 31, 2014 1:06 PM
ValeBreck said: YES, THANK YOU!RapeGod said: Does anyone know the song that plays when Gon tells Pitou he's going to kill her? It's the same song that played during the Netero/Meruem fight. As soon as that song came on, I know sh*t was gonna get real. You mean this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb8Sf5-tS5s ? |
| Gon don't grow up to 100 years old more like to 25-30, by sacrifing 10 years of life force and your nen, you will finish like him I think and if you aren't him, it will serve no purpose, Tompa will still be Tompa ( he isn't a nen user but it's just a example.) If you sacrifice your life you are sacrifing your life. You take the pistol and shoot yourself, it's useless. And if you aren't a "rare talent" like the big majority of the hunters this will change nothing and they will still shoot you after you shot yourself. If you sacrifice yourself, there is no hope left. If your determination isn't strong enough, you won't have a powerfull nen, if your condition aren't powerfull, the nen won't be good either. http://i38.mangareader.net/hunter-x-hunter/83/hunter-x-hunter-1649771.jpg Only using your power against your goal is a limited condition, you really need to risk your life. If you aren't a enchancer and create a new ability on the spot like Cheatu without thinkings well enough, it'll be weak too. You'll gain a useless power and die with it. If you don't sacrifice yourself with this, you can be saved or win like Shoot or Knuckle and there is hope. Hunter is a dangerous job, they risk their life every year. |
GuilekMay 31, 2014 1:06 PM
RedRoseFring said: SaSa-Zoldyck said: Why did Gon have to use Komugi as a hostage if he could powerup? Because he never had it in mind to do so until he realized that Kite couldn't be healed. Again, no evidence. Why did Gon attempt to fight Youpi then? Gon was willing to face Youpi without powering up, so it is clear that the power up was not on his mind at that moment. Also, the anime is yet to state the exact vow Gon made. That is what I am waiting for because it could make or break this case. So now Gon can't do shit without that power-up. Why would he use his trump card on Youpi when his target is Pitou?! He was willing to fight Youpi when he thought that Knuckle was out of the picture and Morel and Shoot were still recovering the choas. But he wasn't planning to stay and fight Youpi until the end, his mission was to get Kite back. Thats why he dashed when he noticed that Knuckle was alive. Why didn’t any other nen users do something similar to Gon when backed into a corner? A problem with that is that Gon didn't make a vow for an "ability", he made a vow for "potential" which every nen user theoretically has (regardless of just how much). And your first point is exactly the problem I have with this: how he could make such a vow on the spot. The presentation makes it pretty clear that it was an "in the moment thing". "That's it. I'll use everything," makes it clear that he made that decision at that moment, and wouldn't make sense if he had already made a vow prior and sacrificed something else or even "just a portion" instead of "everything." So that means that Togashi either used it get himself out of a hole or there is a valid reason yet to be given. Cheetu made a power (the crossbow thing) in the midst of battle, but that was an ability and not accumulation of potential as Gon did, and didn't have any vows to go with it. What Gon did removes any implied restrictions to only gaining abilities, but opens the door to a wide number of pretty questionable possibilities. Time becomes irrelevant as a character could draw power from any era (and depending on what exactly Gon sacrificed, the sacrifice could pale in contrast to the power gained.) I'll say it right now that if Gon did not in fact sacrifice everything (both his life and nen meaning that he is literally at death's door), then this does in fact appear to be an asspull (and once again, I don't want manga spoilers. If it is yet to be explained, then I will patiently wait for the explanation). Unlike most of the others, I am willing to reserve my judgement until everything is actually shown instead of jumping to conclusions. I am very interested to see how Gon is going to get out of this. No he made a vow to get power. This is what he said; ''I don't care what happens to me now. I need all the power I'll ever have.'' ( This is Viz translation) His physical strenght, speed and aura improved and thats all an Enhancer like Gon needs for a stronger hatsu. First you quoted it wrong. This the correct quote '' Enough!! Let it end'' meaning Pitou's bullshit, his suffering ect. '' I don't care what happens to me now. I need all the power..'' How does that line prove anything? It was said to let the readers know that he was using a nen vow. Do you honestly believe that it is that easy to make a nen vow? Anyways we will see Gon's state in a bit. I feel like I'm repeating the same stuff so this will be my last reply. |
| ''We don't know what kind of people we truly are until the moment before our deaths. As death comes to embrace you, you will realise what you are. That's what death is, don't you think?'' - Uchiha Itachi |
RedRoseFring said: jreginald said: Not too many hunters have the same amount of potential that Gon has. Not every character went through the same emotional shit that Gon went through. Not every character has the resolve Gon did throughout this entire arc. Before you keep posting, do yourself a favor and read everything in this thread. Those are probably the best and thorough explanations you could ever find on this subject. And I would advise you to read my comments before you keep posting because I already addressed all that. ... And your first point is exactly the problem I have with this: how he could make such a vow on the spot. The presentation makes it pretty clear that it was an "in the moment thing". I'll say it right now that if Gon did not in fact sacrifice everything (both his life and nen meaning that he is literally at death's door), then this does in fact appear to be an asspull (and once again, I don't want manga spoilers. If it is yet to be explained, then I will patiently wait for the explanation). Unlike most of the others, I am willing to reserve my judgement until everything is actually shown instead of jumping to conclusions. I am very interested to see how Gon is going to get out of this. Clearly, you haven't -- you still think that Gon made that vow "on the spot". Seriously, read it. That link contains so much more than what I've said. Gon has been warned (by Wing) not to follow Kurapika in using a creed & limitation. Gon even said that he doesn't have the time to get that strong. Gon has had more than an idea of what a vow & limitation is about. And like a bunch of us has said, emotional pulls have a huge influence in a situation like this, as established by Kurapika's Nen teacher. We're not "jumping to conclusions" here, we're piecing things together from facts that we've received from actually paying attention to the series. It doesn't take a manga spoiler to know what Gon sacrificed, especially from the emphasis and worry that Killua & Pitou had in their minds regarding what Gon had to give up to achieve such power. |
jreginaldMay 31, 2014 2:22 PM
Guilek said: Gon don't grow up to 100 years old more like to 25-30, by sacrifing 10 years of life force and your nen, you will finish like him I think and if you aren't him, it will serve no purpose, Tompa will still be Tompa ( he isn't a nen user but it's just a example.) If you sacrifice your life you are sacrifing your life. You take the pistol and shoot yourself, it's useless. And if you aren't a "rare talent" like the big majority of the hunters this will change nothing and they will still shoot you after you shot yourself. If you sacrifice yourself, there is no hope left. If your determination isn't strong enough, you won't have a powerfull nen, if your condition aren't powerfull, the nen won't be good either. http://i38.mangareader.net/hunter-x-hunter/83/hunter-x-hunter-1649771.jpg Only using your power against your goal is a limited condition, you really need to risk your life. If you aren't a enchancer and create a new ability on the spot like Cheatu without thinkings well enough, it'll be weak too. You'll gain a useless power and die with it. If you don't sacrifice yourself with this, you can be saved or win like Shoot or Knuckle and there is hope. Hunter is a dangerous job, they risk their life every year. Also, the risk is minimized when they are skilled. Feitan was barely injured and for that he got to have a miniature sun, Gon's power on the other hand cost him his potential. Some people can be more powerful than Gon, even without any conditions at all. Besides, Gon has always been shown to think outside the box, perhaps no other kid, who also happened to be an enhancer, who also happened to be in the same emotional position, and same detemination, thought of using enhancement on the aging process? Because that's a really sweet move on Tog's side. |
| That ending.. Give me the next episode already, I'm so curious. Omg Gon that look on his fast before he did his "Rock" ;_; |
| The insanity of his strength. But unfortunately, this new ability is UNCATEGORISABLE! You can't categorise it at all, it's like having some OP thing just because he's the main protagonist. Which of course I loved, but this ability does not come from his Enhancer Nen abilities. It's quite insane that he can be so damn strong. Killua looks like a little girl compared to Gon now. Curious as to whether he's able to transform into a small child form again or it's permanent. Great series. |
 |
DAOtmc said: The insanity of his strength. But unfortunately, this new ability is UNCATEGORISABLE! You can't categorise it at all, it's like having some OP thing just because he's the main protagonist. Which of course I loved, but this ability does not come from his Enhancer Nen abilities.. Actually, it does. Gon enhanced his strength, aura, and speed. Enhanced. Enhancer = Enhances. The huge difference is that there's a significant difference in power, which is the result of Gon's emotional state, potential, and sacrifice. Bisky did the same thing, whenever she was in an actual fighting mode, she was in her true bulky form. Of course, Bisky had no noticeable change in aura because this was her true form to begin with, but point is, it goes in line with her being an Enhancer. |
jreginaldJun 1, 2014 11:39 PM
DAOtmc said: Curious as to whether he's able to transform into a small child form again or it's permanent. Great series. |
| ^ her ability is great if your old though, forever young ;) Imagine you're 100+ years old with your 20 year old body :O sounds amazing |
|
kaikyaku said: jreginald said: Bisky did the same thing, whenever she was in an actual fighting mode, she was in her true bulky form. Of course, Bisky had no noticeable change in aura because this was her true form to begin with, but point is, it goes in line with her being an Enhancer. Actully, no. Bisky is not n enhancer. Her original form is the bulky one. Her ability is more a manipulation one (remember her masseuse), which transform her body to make her look all gentle and feeble and pretty. It's in line with her character too :) There is no enhancing in the nen sense when she returns to her bulky form, since she simply interrupt her nen ability. Wow, was I wrong. I always thought Bisky was a natural Enhancer, guess not. But anyway, what Gon did still goes in line with his being an Enhancer for the things I said about him. I shouldn't have even compared it to Bisky in the first place, with Killua stating that it was the exact opposite of what Gon did. |
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