| http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Smokers-as-a-percentage-of-adult-pop.jpg |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Nicole said: QueenOfHeroes said: First of all, most drugs are not as addictive as popular media propagandizes them to be. Second, the main reason to use mind-altering substances tends to be for recreational use at social gatherings; think alcohol for example. Or personal use; think tobacco or even marijuana. Third, the extreme cases in which psychological addiction/ physical dependence develops, there will be rehabilitation just like for other problems like alcohol, gambling, etc. You know, instead of throwing them in prison and making them into real criminals. Now of course, there will be restrictions but my main point is that legalization will stop the senseless drug war going in both the U.S. and Mexico. Why? Because the Drug Lords can no longer make a profit due to their inability to monopolize distribution. This is the main cause of all the violence, who can control the trade routes. Once you eliminate the illegality of the market, you eliminate the power that Drug Lords have. Now let me be clear about this. I for one, do not encourage the use/abuse or sale of alternative substances. I simply think criminalization is way more dangerous than legalization. People will always have flaws, but throwing him into jail for a bad choice he made will only make things worse. It should be his decision to change and his loved ones that should guide him. That's exactly what I've been arguing. Current drug laws have failed, how long are we going to continue with them when it's only making the problem worse. Struct rules, heavy taxation, doctor supervision of the most dangerous ones, limited use. Make the rest legal on prescription or something like that. This basically already happens since drug companies have been doing this already, a lot of people are addicted to 'legal' prescription drugs, which are equally as dangerous when misused. So instead of this ridiculousness where society is just simply trying to avoid responsibility for for those people that do unfortunately misuse drugs and often find it very difficult to get help . we can change things to make them much safer. The only reason they aren't legal in the first place is lobbies from tobacco, drug and alcohol companies, because they know that there products do the same thing and are equally as dangerous. i've recently been trying to get off of valium. i had no idea... talk about big pharm peddling dangerous drugs! benzos have had a bad rap for years, but can certainly be effective in treating some anxiety disorders. now that i feel i don't need them, i've been tapering off. i suffer bizarre and extreme symptoms of withdrawal everyday. shaking, sweating, chest pounding, dizziness and nausea - even mild halluciantions - colors are TOO bright and sounds are TOO loud. I actually avoid my own family b/c i can't listen to them talk. the symptoms never end. whats worse? the non-problems i had with illicit drugs? or the crazy withdrawal from a controlled substance that basically numbs you on a daily basis? it boggles my mind. i'm not saying i'm special, but if someone walked in my shoes for awhile, i think they would see that street drugs can indeed be far less harmful than prescription drugs. i really trusted my psychiatrist and look where its landed me. cripes, not even sure i'm on topic, but i think its relevant |
Shiratori99 said: Nicole said: Shiratori99 said: They will continue to be sold illegally for lower prices even if you can buy them legally. And people will buy the cheap stuff even if it's more dangerous, cause drug users in general already don't care for their health. And you want doctors to purposefully harm their patients by making them addicted to hard drugs? Nice idea. Right, a far better idea to completely ignore the problem itself. Because you know, that's worked. I'm more sympathetic to the opposite approach: death penalty for drug dealing. Or make it life sentence, idc. meh, death penalty has not be proved to decrease crime rates, quite the opposite actually http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence-states-without-death-penalty-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates |
QueenOfHeroes said: Shiratori99 said: Nicole said: Shiratori99 said: They will continue to be sold illegally for lower prices even if you can buy them legally. And people will buy the cheap stuff even if it's more dangerous, cause drug users in general already don't care for their health. And you want doctors to purposefully harm their patients by making them addicted to hard drugs? Nice idea. Right, a far better idea to completely ignore the problem itself. Because you know, that's worked. I'm more sympathetic to the opposite approach: death penalty for drug dealing. Or make it life sentence, idc. meh, death penalty has not be proved to decrease crime rates, quite the opposite actually http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence-states-without-death-penalty-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates You can't compare drug dealing with murder, because the motivations are largely different. Drug dealing is a business and people tend to value their life more than quick money in the end. |
| Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
Shiratori99 said: QueenOfHeroes said: Shiratori99 said: Nicole said: Shiratori99 said: They will continue to be sold illegally for lower prices even if you can buy them legally. And people will buy the cheap stuff even if it's more dangerous, cause drug users in general already don't care for their health. And you want doctors to purposefully harm their patients by making them addicted to hard drugs? Nice idea. Right, a far better idea to completely ignore the problem itself. Because you know, that's worked. I'm more sympathetic to the opposite approach: death penalty for drug dealing. Or make it life sentence, idc. meh, death penalty has not be proved to decrease crime rates, quite the opposite actually http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence-states-without-death-penalty-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates You can't compare drug dealing with murder, because the motivations are largely different. Drug dealing is a business and people tend to value their life more than quick money in the end. But there are already pretty harsh laws on drugs dealers, some of them do get sentenced for life |
QueenOfHeroes said: But there are already pretty harsh laws on drugs dealers, some of them do get sentenced for life In Germany the penalty for drug dealing is up to 5 years. If it's your first offence you usually get off on probation. It's a joke, no wonder people don't take it seriously and you can find dealers at every corner. |
| Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
Shiratori99 said: QueenOfHeroes said: But there are already pretty harsh laws on drugs dealers, some of them do get sentenced for life In Germany the penalty for drug dealing is up to 5 years. If it's your first offence you usually get off on probation. It's a joke, no wonder people don't take it seriously and you can find dealers at every corner. It depends. Large scale drug lords can get life sentence (in my country at least). Of course simple dealers and pushers get fewer years. The ridiculous thing is that there is drug trade even in prisons |
Shiratori99 said: You can't compare drug dealing with murder, because the motivations are largely different. Drug dealing is a business and people tend to value their life more than quick money in the end. I think you need to go and check how many people have died because of the US 'Drug War'. http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2012/11/nearly-60000-drug-war-deaths-in-mexico.html Other numbers differ slightly, but the number is generally around 45-60k+ Working? |
| "If you love someone Follow your heart Cause love comes once If you’re lucky enough" |
Nicole said: Shiratori99 said: You can't compare drug dealing with murder, because the motivations are largely different. Drug dealing is a business and people tend to value their life more than quick money in the end. I think you need to go and check how many people have died because of the US 'Drug War'. http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2012/11/nearly-60000-drug-war-deaths-in-mexico.html Other numbers differ slightly, but the number is generally around 45-60k+ Working? What does this even have to do with anything? The mexican drug war is mostly crime syndicates fighting against each other and the corrupt mexican government. It's a problem with organized criminality in general and this won't simply disappear if you legalize drugs. |
| Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
Shiratori99 said: What does this even have to do with anything? The mexican drug war is mostly crime syndicates fighting against each other and the corrupt mexican government. It's a problem with organized criminality in general and this won't simply disappear if you legalize drugs. Drug dealing is a business and people tend to value their life more than quick money in the end. Apparently you were wrong. And the drug cartels would lose a lot of power if drugs were legalised. |
NicoleFeb 24, 2014 1:21 PM
| "If you love someone Follow your heart Cause love comes once If you’re lucky enough" |
| Woudl what be better? My life? Hell yes! |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| It would be better for those of us who can handle our drugs. |
| Come visit my town // I apologize in advance for my second-rate English Join my fan club // Improve the transport network |
Nicole said: Shiratori99 said: What does this even have to do with anything? The mexican drug war is mostly crime syndicates fighting against each other and the corrupt mexican government. It's a problem with organized criminality in general and this won't simply disappear if you legalize drugs. Drug dealing is a business and people tend to value their life more than quick money in the end.[/quote Apparently you were wrong. And the drug cartels would lose a lot of power if drugs were legalised. They're gonna sell drugs cheaper than the legal ones, same shit. Legalizing it won't change much for them. The ones who are gonna suffer from your policy are the naive fools who wouldn't do drugs before, but think that now that they're legal it's okay. |
| Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
Shiratori99 said: They're gonna sell drugs cheaper than the legal ones, same shit. Legalizing it won't change much for them. The ones who are gonna suffer from your policy are the naive fools who wouldn't do drugs before, but think that now that they're legal it's okay. Firstly, not really, they'll try too, but eventually the cost will become too difficult to maintain, and even if they would, they would still make less money, which makes them lose power. And no, for example when Cannibis was made legal in Holland, it didn't dramatically increase usage, it increases in the short term, but in the long term the numbers return to the same (and in a lot of cases, lower). So what exactly makes you think that more people would use them? And, looking at Daintybiscuits post, prescription drugs are even more dangerous realistically, because people believe them to be safe, nobody believes heroin is a safe drug to take, most people realise the risks they are taking. People don't realise how dangerous prescription drugs are because it's a doctor that gives you them (kinda funny considering your comment about wanting doctors to give drugs that are harmful to people). |
| "If you love someone Follow your heart Cause love comes once If you’re lucky enough" |
QueenOfHeroes said: Legalisation would also help us to disseminate open, honest and truthful information to users and non-users to help them to make decisions about whether and how to use. Drug use would become safer and more controlled. I've yet to hear anything about a safe dose of heroin. Two words for you: Drug Abuse. Some drugs appear to be safe, like alcohol (legal) and marijuana (generally illegal, but should be legal). These two in particular can be consumed rather safely, if moderately. Though, I've yet to hear about death from marijuana overdose. Alcohol has alcohol poisoning; but you have to consume a ton just to get to that point. But many drugs are just way to dangerous to be legalized, because of their addictive properties, which may result in bodily harm and death. |
| Click on this. I dare you. | MAL Fantasy Football League | Currently Watching List RWBY Club. RWBY is anime. Deal with it. |
| They should all be legal. Less people would die if they didn't buy drugs laced with who-knows-what from black market dealers, cartels would lose their power so there would be less deaths from the crossfire of their fighting, and less people would be put in prison for harming nobody but themselves. |
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Nicole said: Shiratori99 said: They're gonna sell drugs cheaper than the legal ones, same shit. Legalizing it won't change much for them. The ones who are gonna suffer from your policy are the naive fools who wouldn't do drugs before, but think that now that they're legal it's okay. Firstly, not really, they'll try too, but eventually the cost will become too difficult to maintain, and even if they would, they would still make less money, which makes them lose power. They're just gonna sell even worse quality to reduce the costs, making the drugs they sell even more dangerous. And if the state was ever to sell drugs you can bet on that they'll heavily tax it. Nicole said: And no, for example when Cannibis was made legal in Holland, it didn't dramatically increase usage, it increases in the short term, but in the long term the numbers return to the same (and in a lot of cases, lower). We're talking about hard drugs here. Take them a few times and you're addicted. Nicole said: So what exactly makes you think that more people would use them? And, looking at Daintybiscuits post, prescription drugs are even more dangerous realistically, because people believe them to be safe, nobody believes heroin is a safe drug to take, most people realise the risks they are taking. People don't realise how dangerous prescription drugs are because it's a doctor that gives you them (kinda funny considering your comment about wanting doctors to give drugs that are harmful to people). These drugs are prescribed because they have positive effects that are meant to outweigh the dangers. It's for the patient's wellbeing in the end. What you want is doctors prescribing dangerous drugs to people for their mere enjoyment without any therapeutical effects. Obviously that is against a medician's code of ethics. |
| Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
KyuuAL said: Some drugs appear to be safe, like alcohol Alcohol takes some heavy doses over a longer time to get you addicted, but once you are, it's horrific. |
| Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
Shiratori99 said: This is utter nonsense.We're talking about hard drugs here. Take them a few times and you're addicted. |
Makomonogatari said: lupadim said: The best part is that you somehow actually exist.And the best part is that no one can prove it wrong |
| "All" drugs. Definitely not. Some drugs are highly toxic consumed even in low doses. I believe that reason is enough. |
| Yup, drugs should all be legal! I mean look at what it has done positively to people such as Layne Staley! Though no matter what, people are going to be paying out in the end for the addicts, which may or may not represent a large percentage. Look at how much money the states make on the taxes on liquor and cigarettes, and then also look at how much they pay for rehabilitation clinics to be open. It's never you just "Harming yourself", nothing is ever that nihilistic and apathetic. |
 Pikachu wants some |
| Here's the crazy part about drugs. People who use them dont care about the laws. And people who sell, dont care about the laws. SO no, it wouldn't make a difference. What it woudl do is destroy the cartels profit margins, so they actively buy votes to stop the legalisations of drugs. Do you know how many votes a cocaine heroin addicted child sex slave sold to a corrupt politician buys? Lets just say, enough to keep you addicting hookers and child sex slaves for the next 100 years. legalize drugs? You're stupid. This is how they want it. I just imagine poor you coming home and they've addicted your wife to cocaine and she beg fucks them for more in front of your face. I feel fucking sorry for you all. |
| I'm pretty sure that would cause the death rate to go high. |
| Yes, in fact most countries should legalize the most toxic drug in the world that kills you in no time, that way stupid people that need to use drugs will die quickly and the state won't waste too much money in them. I propose to legalize the Crystal Meth. |
I luv u |
Asap_ said: Nihilfist said: Cherry picking.Well the US is the leading force in the war on drugs and one of the most powerful nations on the planet, so they're the most relevant to the discussion. And what the hell do you mean that I'm complaining about the "strictness" of anti-drug laws? I assumed you were bothered by the fact that the prison times were so long for possession of small amounts of drugs so the prisoners generate more profits, not that the laws themselves exist, whoops. Even so, just because there also may be some financial profit doesn't mean there would be no other positive effect or purpose. I could be selling medicine and you'd call me a greedy cunt, ignoring the fact that I'm also helping people by selling the medicine. What I'm saying is that if anti-drug laws were actually there for benevolent purposes rather than business purposes then law enforcement would deal with offenders in a way that's more humane than just throwing them in a fucking cell. Incarcerating drug users doesn't solve anything. Once they get out of jail after years of being locked up, they're just going to start doing the same shit again. If you really want to solve the problem, then build rehabilitation clinics, not prisons. If you don't care either way, then fuck off with regulating what people do with their own bodies on their own free time. |
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| people like layne staley and bradley nowell made conscious decisions to take massive amounts of drugs leading to inevitable OD severe use, abuse, dependence and OD by some individuals does not indicate that a significant portion of the general population would suffer the same consequences. studies on this stuff are limited by necessity - the fact that such drugs are illegal. part of the reason the lasting effects of pot are still so hotly debated is that researchers simply could not perform past studies with controlled substances. the same applies to other "hard" or "soft" drugs. we have figures about fatalities, but not what the face of drug use in america would look like if illicit substances were legalized. |
geezdad said: Shiratori99 said: This is utter nonsense.We're talking about hard drugs here. Take them a few times and you're addicted. Not all of them, but there's drugs where even a single use will get you addicted. |
| Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
Shiratori99 said: geezdad said: Shiratori99 said: This is utter nonsense.We're talking about hard drugs here. Take them a few times and you're addicted. Not all of them, but there's drugs where even a single use will get you addicted. nah , don't believe the media propaganda. Anyway , I believe that at least soft drugs should be legalised. As about the more dangerous drugs , I still think that they should be available to those who are addicted.I agree with what Nicole said before about the special facilities. The current system is terrible. It takes simple "naughty" kids who wanted to rebel and turns them into criminals. I feel like some of you who are against legalisation don't care about the kids at all , all you care about is punishing the addicts |
QueenOfHeroesFeb 24, 2014 11:43 PM
| All drugs? No. Some drugs? Yes. |
  |
Shiratori99 said: Yeah, not really.geezdad said: Shiratori99 said: This is utter nonsense.We're talking about hard drugs here. Take them a few times and you're addicted. Not all of them, but there's drugs where even a single use will get you addicted. |
Makomonogatari said: lupadim said: The best part is that you somehow actually exist.And the best part is that no one can prove it wrong |
geezdad said: Shiratori99 said: Yeah, not really.geezdad said: Shiratori99 said: This is utter nonsense.We're talking about hard drugs here. Take them a few times and you're addicted. Not all of them, but there's drugs where even a single use will get you addicted. http://www.rehabilitationguide.com/can-you-become-addicted-to-a-drug-if-you-only-use-it-once/ |
| Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
Shiratori99 said: Thanks for that extremely unbiased source.http://www.rehabilitationguide.com/can-you-become-addicted-to-a-drug-if-you-only-use-it-once/ "Maybe they didn’t become a full-blown addict at that moment, though some drugs are said to be instantly addicting for some." "Maybe", "some", "are said". Can you be even more vague then this? |
aerostatFeb 25, 2014 11:22 AM
Makomonogatari said: lupadim said: The best part is that you somehow actually exist.And the best part is that no one can prove it wrong |
| I would rather gravitate towards a middle ground. Portugal has had great success in the last 12 years, since decriminalizing drugs. Coupled with their educational programs and legal proceedings drug use has seen a significant drop, as well as crime rates being reduced obviously as possession convictions go down. This to me is a better solution than all out legalizing drugs. When it's said the government should regulate and tax drugs and that will make the drug wars/cartels go away, I sit and wonder on what grounds is that conclusion reached? The government would have to pay wages, have it distributed, and tax it, and as the current marijuana prices have shown, the cost is higher than current street value. Of course Marijuana is in it's trial run in terms of legalization, so prices may go down to better reflect 'street' price. Some might say 'but you know what you're getting if you buy from the government'...well I have a healthy skepticism of that, but even if true, if I'm shooting heroine, how much does safety actually matter to me? At any rate, I think attempting Portugal's model would be a good first step, before going to the opposite end of the spectrum and legalizing everything entirely. While the government plays the role of drug cartel in certain aspects, I'm just not sure increasing that role is the way to go. |
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