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Lollo36 said: And as Shirou describes Rin, Rin feels down for a bit and then bounces back better than ever.CookingPriest said: And? She did not get raped and she is far stronger a person than to let shit like that affect her. She' s so strong that, after seeing the mess Shinji made at her school, she almost blacks out for a bit. Edit: she also cries after being betrayed by Archer |
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CookingPriest said: Lollo36 said: And as Shirou describes Rin, Rin feels down for a bit and then bounces back better than ever.She' s so strong that, after seeing the mess Shinji made at her school, she almost blacks out for a bit. Edit: she also cries after being betrayed by Archer Exactly. We don' t even get that, here. Rin gets almost raped, her teacher almost murders her, and a servant she just befriended sacrifices himself for her, but all she thinks about are Shirou and Archer, because the narrative demands so. |
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| If you don't like this anime then why don't you all just drop it?If you continue to watch it then this anime is good. This episode was really good and Rin blushing was kawai. |
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Darkmoq said: it's funny because they could have done a fade to black right after the pillow fight when they cut to saber i thought it would have been perfect if they did. it would play on RN and the original without having shirou even bothering to say "i'd rather have done it with you without any contreived reasons for it". i said it once and i'll say it again both ver of the scenes were horrible and the anime could have come to something more original to exceed either.I'm a little surprised that people are actually defending the sex in the VN. I dropped a snarky comment a few days ago making fun of the VN scene but I didn't realize the subject was contested. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the pro-VN Sex scene argument seems to hinge on a few flimsy arguments 1) xplanting the magic crest is OOC for Rin or technically impossible. 2) Sex is a better way to establish that magic connection 3) Rin and Shirou have the hots for each other anyway so when faced with Armageddon, why not bone? When looking at the FSN VN sex scenes two things jump out at me (3 things if you count Shirou's microphallus): One is the sex necessary? Two, is it's depiction necessary? To the first question, no. It was a plot device. I don't see how this is even controversial. Even if the magic crest transfer is impossible or stupid, the fact that the FSN universe lets you recharge your servant by dumping a magical jizzload into her, or lets you create a mana channel between another mage by synchronizing orgasms is silly. I'm sorry but it's a clumsy plot contrivance designed to introduce sex into the narrative. Just to be clear, for this isolated scene in UBW I am challenging the narrative quality of the VN CANON itself. Two: on top of the silly premise, the VN obviously took the H path rather than the PG-13 one and went into graphic detail about the forcefulness of the Shirous thrusts, the consistency of Rin's breasts, and some of the finer points of sex without lube. These extra details were designed to aid the viewership in ruining their keyboards rather than advancing character development or plot. Now lets go back to the anime. I think the anime cleaned up the VN's mess with a mop and bucket. People are talking about how the anime could have done a tasteful fade to black scene with Rin/Shirou kissing but that only addresses the issue of the VN's graphic depiction of the sex, not the ridiculousness of orgasmic mana transfer and magical jizz itself. As far as the anime universe is concerned mana and sex are unrelated. I agree there are some questionable things about transplanting the crest but could those not have been addressed with a few ad hoc explanations? I'm not anti sex at all, just anti-gimmick. If Rin and Shirou wanted to do the fade to black thing after the mana crest transfer then I'd be ok with that. another thing to note is that really...wtf else is there to talk about this episode..... -i wouldnt exactly say your wrong about about it being a plot device just to include sex. even the author himself has referred to the sex here as a "necissary evil" and didnt even write them himself however this is something that wasnt just introduced in FSN and is something that goes back into the frequently used "containers" concept. -again i wouldnt say your wrong. when your an independant company trying to produce a VN in 2004 and your not already well established your not getting shit off those shelves without the sex. but nobody is really asking for those extra details. the anime could have handled it much much better, it had an opportunity to but chose not to. i wouldnt say that mana and sex are unrelated even in the anime, it's not farfetched when the anime has given far more extreme examples. the point overall is to get shirou to tap into rins magic circuits. despite the fact that rin was trained by someone who is a master and spiritual surgery and transfering yanking magic circuits out of somebody would leave them a vegetable. again an anime original method would have probably been much preferred over the Realta nua hulk jizz gamma dolphins. nobody is really looking for a graphic sex scene here..at least most people arent. Sex is generally considered a connection between two souls something that is played upon in things such as religion. it's smething that has been used from time to time. it's something that could have very well been handled better. |
Darkmoq said: I Now lets go back to the anime. I think the anime cleaned up the VN's mess with a mop and bucket. The anime just follow the vn too ( the realta nua version without h-scene) This scene isn't anime original. |
| Damn the first scene made me think Rin and Shirou were really going to have sex. Glad that Saber already has ended her wish of saving Britain although there wasn't any elaboration which was understandable since it ain't her route. |
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Darkmoq said: I think we are pretty much in agreement here. I've only watched the RN VN which contained the H scenes. Are there other versions that used the "cleaner" magic circuit transplants? I.e. where did the MC idea come from the clean VN or the ufotable anime? The idea came from the "Clean" vn. |
Darkmoq said: which edition of Realta nua did you get? i think it was the 2012 patch that lets you turn the scenes on and off. the whole point of RN in the first place is to remove the sexual content and make it more for a wider audience. the side effect though is that it does things like create plot inconsistencies in some areas and turn some things into almost 4kids level censoring.[/spoiler] I think we are pretty much in agreement here. I've only watched the RN VN which contained the H scenes. Are there other versions that used the "cleaner" magic circuit transplants? I.e. where did the MC idea come from the clean VN or the ufotable anime? As far as sex in stories go I'll admit it's a tricky subject. There's always that fine line between artistic and bonergenic. TBH I believe there's a time and place for both types of media but it almost goes without saying that inserting needless sex into any game/movie/series etc. can backfire and cheapen the plot. In this case, even if we forget about the H factor, i think sex as a recharge mechanism would raise too many unanswered questions. Would HS get a supplemental energy boost if they are fucked by proper magi? would sex with a female master produce the energy boost or is semen the key ingredient? If Kirei fucked Gilgamesh could he become even more powerful? If Shirou fucked Archer could he stay in this world longer? Also, would this be a form of masturbation? These philosophical questions are a can of worms. I don't know if you saw the series Parasyte . I agree that they should have used an anime only method to connect Rin/Shirou. At least anticipate the many questions the viewers would have and add in the appropriate answers. "The Tohsaka Crest is different from the rest because...", "I'm going to take that crest back after we're done...", "My training with Kirei allows me to do..." as far as using sex to fuel your servant it tends not to get questioned too much because 9/10 times the master had a proper contract with their servant. there was just no need to use such methods. as for the "10th" who didn't well you seen that they resorted to much more extreme methods something Saber absolutely refused to do unless shirou blew a command seal to do so. though an exception was Caster and Kuzuki. those two got right down to the fucking so caster could get enough energy to cast her soul draining magic. I myself thought the anime would have at least displayed this with the prospect of caster original content as apart of their relationship. at first they were doing it out of necessity then the 2 developed feelings for each other. you as a VN reader and anime watcher most certainly seen what others such as Shinji and Kirei were doing. so yea it would bring some questions up but i dont think it would be too big a can of worms. having a servant drink your blood provides as similar effect but it's not really the same as the master physically linking their body to the servant. and having mana being refined from them succubus style. and as you probably have found out by now yes succubi do exist in this verse. |
Maloghurst said: Darkmoq said: which edition of Realta nua did you get? i think it was the 2012 patch that lets you turn the scenes on and off. the whole point of RN in the first place is to remove the sexual content and make it more for a wider audience. the side effect though is that it does things like create plot inconsistencies in some areas and turn some things into almost 4kids level censoring.[/spoiler] I think we are pretty much in agreement here. I've only watched the RN VN which contained the H scenes. Are there other versions that used the "cleaner" magic circuit transplants? I.e. where did the MC idea come from the clean VN or the ufotable anime? As far as sex in stories go I'll admit it's a tricky subject. There's always that fine line between artistic and bonergenic. TBH I believe there's a time and place for both types of media but it almost goes without saying that inserting needless sex into any game/movie/series etc. can backfire and cheapen the plot. In this case, even if we forget about the H factor, i think sex as a recharge mechanism would raise too many unanswered questions. Would HS get a supplemental energy boost if they are fucked by proper magi? would sex with a female master produce the energy boost or is semen the key ingredient? If Kirei fucked Gilgamesh could he become even more powerful? If Shirou fucked Archer could he stay in this world longer? Also, would this be a form of masturbation? These philosophical questions are a can of worms. I don't know if you saw the series Parasyte . I agree that they should have used an anime only method to connect Rin/Shirou. At least anticipate the many questions the viewers would have and add in the appropriate answers. "The Tohsaka Crest is different from the rest because...", "I'm going to take that crest back after we're done...", "My training with Kirei allows me to do..." as far as using sex to fuel your servant it tends not to get questioned too much because 9/10 times the master had a proper contract with their servant. there was just no need to use such methods. as for the "10th" who didn't well you seen that they resorted to much more extreme methods something Saber absolutely refused to do unless shirou blew a command seal to do so. though an exception was Caster and Kuzuki. those two got right down to the fucking so caster could get enough energy to cast her soul draining magic. I myself thought the anime would have at least displayed this with the prospect of caster original content as apart of their relationship. at first they were doing it out of necessity then the 2 developed feelings for each other. you as a VN reader and anime watcher most certainly seen what others such as Shinji and Kirei were doing. so yea it would bring some questions up but i dont think it would be too big a can of worms. having a servant drink your blood provides as similar effect but it's not really the same as the master physically linking their body to the servant. and having mana being refined from them succubus style. and as you probably have found out by now yes succubi do exist in this verse. I've said as well that the sex scenes in the VN were ridiculous. I don't think anyone is denying that. But if you ignore the actual way they had sex and the stupidity they said, the actual act itself was realistic. It's the same way as people generally want to have sex more after exercising or taking part in a competitive sporting event, it's biology. The entire context of the situation these two were in would have led any teenagers to getting together or showing SOME form of physical intimacy. It's a matter of realism for portraying two teenage characters, not about fap material or whatever. |
| I still think that just letting Shirou use UBW against Gil without any mana-transfering scene would have been fine. It's not like Archer needed mana to use UBW. |
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Lollo36 said: I still think that just letting Shirou use UBW against Gil without any mana-transfering scene would have been fine. It's not like Archer needed mana to use UBW. Now that's a whole other kettle of fish xD. Independent Action ignores the need for mana as well as providing A Endurance or EX Battle Continuation. |
Maloghurst said: Gov said: the problem with your example with the chilly man is that it ignores that in that very scene caster pointed out that he wasnt getting as much mana as he could have been getting and was just wasting materials. his methods were horrible and he was a shit tier magus overall. no magus worth his salt would need to resort to such a method to generate that pitiful amount of mana on top of this your comparing random children to rin, a magus loaded with more magic circuits than most magi. a vile of rins blood is going to generate more power than at the very least multiple of those children. and as far as the exchange of bodily fluids between rin and shirou you also have to take into account rin has more than double the amount of magic circuits and energy than shirou. a blood transusion+incantation could work but the problem then also comes down to how much power is being generated compared to their magic circuits physically linking up.Yes key word "beings." FMA made it very clear that the philosopher stone needed a certain number of human beinga for it be created and a transmutation circle. Very specific details are needed and I really want to put emphasis on "details". Quantifiable numbers we can measure to give us a certain output. Let us go back to the episode of when Caster's old master was sacrificing a certain amount of children to create a tiny mana crystal. I had no issue with this at all. The input: a certain amount of human children+technology needed to mush their bodies into liquids+magic to drain out the mana. Let us compare this to Shirou and Rin having sex, shall we? Body fluids are exchanged. Ya. We don't know how much is being exchanged because sex is very variable. One session of sex could be different from another. The pacing, the positions, the amount of action of happening, how much body fluids are being exchanged and the stretch of time this whole activity time took place. This is too variable to have a certain output at the end. Theoretically lets say we could, wouldn't this form of mana exchange be simply disadvantageous? Rin has to transfer her body fluids to Shirou but clearly amount of fluids Shirou is giving to Rin is greater than the Rin gives to Shirou. You could make an argument otherwise but then you have to go into the nitty gritty details of the sex they have having. Bottom line, too many issues involved in sex magic for it to be be used here. . I was just using Caster's old master's mana crystals to drive home a point about inputs and outputs. Clear numerical numbers in what has to put in to get a certain end result. Regardless of the fact if Rin has more than double the amount of magic circuits compared to Shirou, the variable number at end is too ambiguous. There needs to be clear distinct explanations on how certain magic works in this universe and I certainly don't want the "because it is magic" explanation but an actual detailed answer. Until then sex magic isn't a good enough answer and I much prefer the hand on chest method the anime chose to do. |
Gov said: Maloghurst said: the problem with your example with the chilly man is that it ignores that in that very scene caster pointed out that he wasnt getting as much mana as he could have been getting and was just wasting materials. his methods were horrible and he was a shit tier magus overall. no magus worth his salt would need to resort to such a method to generate that pitiful amount of mana on top of this your comparing random children to rin, a magus loaded with more magic circuits than most magi. a vile of rins blood is going to generate more power than at the very least multiple of those children. and as far as the exchange of bodily fluids between rin and shirou you also have to take into account rin has more than double the amount of magic circuits and energy than shirou. a blood transusion+incantation could work but the problem then also comes down to how much power is being generated compared to their magic circuits physically linking up. I was just using Caster's old master's mana crystals to drive home a point about inputs and outputs. Clear numerical numbers in what has to put in to get a certain end result. Regardless of the fact if Rin has more than double the amount of magic circuits compared to Shirou, the variable number at end is too ambiguous. There needs to be clear distinct explanations on how certain magic works. I don't wan the "because it is magic" explanation but an actual detailed answer. Until then sex magic doesn't give a good enough explanation on the inner workings of how much body fluid is transferred between each individual. Life essence... |
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TheUnknownMerc said: Gov said: I was just using Caster's old master's mana crystals to drive home a point about inputs and outputs. Clear numerical numbers in what has to put in to get a certain end result. Regardless of the fact if Rin has more than double the amount of magic circuits compared to Shirou, the variable number at end is too ambiguous. There needs to be clear distinct explanations on how certain magic works. I don't wan the "because it is magic" explanation but an actual detailed answer. Until then sex magic doesn't give a good enough explanation on the inner workings of how much body fluid is transferred between each individual. Life essence... What kind of answer is this? |
Lollo36 said: gotta say...that had actually not occured to me i was too busy bitching about the fact that archer was able to use UBW a second time.I still think that just letting Shirou use UBW against Gil without any mana-transfering scene would have been fine. It's not like Archer needed mana to use UBW. |
SaintEmiya said: Lollo36 said: I still think that just letting Shirou use UBW against Gil without any mana-transfering scene would have been fine. It's not like Archer needed mana to use UBW. Now that's a whole other kettle of fish xD. Independent Action ignores the need for mana as well as providing A Endurance or EX Battle Continuation. Even if we accept all this info from Retconville, they could have just handwaved Shirou's powerup by saying that his mana pool/circuits/whatever had increased along with his knowledge thanks to his link with Archer, anything would have been better than what we got in this episode. |
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Lollo36 said: SaintEmiya said: Now that's a whole other kettle of fish xD. Independent Action ignores the need for mana as well as providing A Endurance or EX Battle Continuation. Even if we accept all this info from Retconville, they could have just handwaved Shirou's powerup by saying that his mana pool/circuits/whatever had increased along with his knowledge thanks to his link with Archer, anything would have been better than what we got in this episode. To be honest that does make more sense, as it would also explain what happens to shirou later when he . Yea mana is good, but mana alone isn't gonna give you the skills and strength required for half the stuff he does now, he gets that from his abilities. |
Lollo36 said: I still think that just letting Shirou use UBW against Gil without any mana-transfering scene would have been fine. It's not like Archer needed mana to use UBW. Lol wp |
Maloghurst said: Lollo36 said: gotta say...that had actually not occured to me i was too busy bitching about the fact that archer was able to use UBW a second time.I still think that just letting Shirou use UBW against Gil without any mana-transfering scene would have been fine. It's not like Archer needed mana to use UBW. But then the part where Shirou realizes that he his limits are far beyond just a few magic circuits and activates 27 magic circuits will be meaningless. Oh wait, it already is due to lack of exposition. |
Gov said: WTB Saber route? one of the obvious issues with adapting UBW is that it expects you to know info you have gotten from the Fate route. F/Z is in no way a subsittute for this. i'm glad that the anime did add some of the Fate route content for saber though it's something.[ I was just using Caster's old master's mana crystals to drive home a point about inputs and outputs. Clear numerical numbers in what has to put in to get a certain end result. Regardless of the fact if Rin has more than double the amount of magic circuits compared to Shirou, the variable number at end is too ambiguous. There needs to be clear distinct explanations on how certain magic works in this universe and I certainly don't want the "because it is magic" explanation but an actual detailed answer. Until then sex magic isn't a good enough answer and I much prefer the hand on chest method the anime chose to do. do these explanations help you any? Magecraft Magic Circuits prana/life essence that about the small gist of it, i think it gives the idea. there are some spoilers here and there but i dont think you're gonna read tsukihime, and i think you've SEEN F/Z? i recall you saying so. BUT JUST TO SAY IT ANYWAYS warning contains spoilers. there are some small HF spoilers though. |
MaloghurstJun 9, 2015 12:16 PM
GradationAir said: Maloghurst said: gotta say...that had actually not occured to me i was too busy bitching about the fact that archer was able to use UBW a second time. But then the part where Shirou realizes that he his limits are far beyond just a few magic circuits and activates 27 magic circuits will be meaningless. Oh wait, it already is due to lack of exposition. Don't worry. Sparks will fly everywhere and it will look like a shonen asspull powerup. |
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| In the original VN where I don't mind, but in the Fate route where makes me not be able to take the series seriously. It's so utterly stupid it just passes my stupid threshold, which is actually very lenient. |
GradationAir said: But then the part where Shirou realizes that he his limits are far beyond just a few magic circuits and activates 27 magic circuits will be meaningless. Oh wait, it already is due to lack of exposition. You did so well with your "undercover" work until now. But you just had to slip up. |
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Grey-Zone said: GradationAir said: But then the part where Shirou realizes that he his limits are far beyond just a few magic circuits and activates 27 magic circuits will be meaningless. Oh wait, it already is due to lack of exposition. You did so well with your "undercover" work until now. But you just had to slip up. If you're implying what I think you are it's not him. Unless he stays up 24 hours a day, fakes when he's offline, and posts during Smite games. |
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| You mean you don't? I do all that with my alts all the time, you know. |
Insertanamehere said: You mean you don't? I do all that with my alts all the time, you know. I am living proof of it :) |
I am the Priest of my church Yuetsu is my body, and wine is my blood I have trolled over a thousand users Unknown to sympathy, nor known to apathy Withstood Shirou to eat Mapo Tofu Yet, my question will never be answered So as I rejoice, Unlimited Kirei Works! |
nocorras said: If you're implying what I think you are it's not him. Unless he stays up 24 hours a day, fakes when he's offline, and posts during Smite games. I don't know what you think I am implying and no, I most likely don't imply what you think I am implying. |
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Grey-Zone said: nocorras said: If you're implying what I think you are it's not him. Unless he stays up 24 hours a day, fakes when he's offline, and posts during Smite games. I don't know what you think I am implying and no, I most likely don't imply what you think I am implying. Well played. |
| K did shirou just bone tohsaka without knowing it? Lulz |
lolatusenpai said: K did shirou just bone tohsaka without knowing it? Lulz He used the Bone of his Sword ;D |
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lolatusenpai said: K did shirou just bone tohsaka without knowing it? Lulz does this answer your question? nsfw |
Grey-Zone said: nocorras said: If you're implying what I think you are it's not him. Unless he stays up 24 hours a day, fakes when he's offline, and posts during Smite games. I don't know what you think I am implying and no, I most likely don't imply what you think I am implying. Then what are you implying? |
Insertanamehere said: Then what are you implying? |
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Maloghurst said: lolatusenpai said: K did shirou just bone tohsaka without knowing it? Lulz does this answer your question? nsfw Tohsaka has boobs in the VN? mind = blown |
TheUnknownMerc said: lolatusenpai said: K did shirou just bone tohsaka without knowing it? Lulz He used the Bone of his Sword ;D Now this is just clever. :D I gotta say, out of all the Engrlish in this show, Archer's is definitely the best. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
lolatusenpai said: rins got plenty of things.Maloghurst said: does this answer your question? nsfw Tohsaka has boobs in the VN? mind = blown |
Forgetfulness said: yes. shirou was able to level the playing field because of the whole "wielders" vs "owners" thing. it's at least apart of it. SaintEmiya said: Doesn't Shirou gain all the knowledge and skill of the owner when he copies weapons though?To be honest that does make more sense, as it would also explain what happens to shirou later when he . Yea mana is good, but mana alone isn't gonna give you the skills and strength required for half the stuff he does now, he gets that from his abilities. |
Maloghurst said: yes. shirou was able to level the playing field because of the whole "wielders" vs "owners" thing. it's at least apart of it. Should take it to VN thread Grey-Zone said: Insertanamehere said: Then what are you implying? If you want to be so dramatic about it not really, but the obvious implication of your post is that he's Fai's alt. |
InsertanamehereJun 10, 2015 12:26 PM
| i'd be a little surprised if grey really thought gradation was a fai alt. |
Forgetfulness said: SaintEmiya said: Doesn't Shirou gain all the knowledge and skill of the owner when he copies weapons though?To be honest that does make more sense, as it would also explain what happens to shirou later when he . Yea mana is good, but mana alone isn't gonna give you the skills and strength required for half the stuff he does now, he gets that from his abilities. I thought that had been nerfed in the anime though. Like, instead of him learning from tracing/copying he has to hug Archer or something idfk. |
Insertanamehere said: If you want to be so dramatic about it not really, but the obvious implication of your post is that he's Fai's alt. lol, that isn't it. Before you mentioned it, him being Fai's alt didn't even cross my mind... and I still don't think so. When I was talking about "undercover" I was talking about being "out of character" compared to before... |
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Insertanamehere said: If you want to be so dramatic about it not really, but the obvious implication of your post is that he's Fai's alt. Maloghurst said: i'd be a little surprised if grey really thought gradation was a fai alt. In all honesty there were only 2 accounts here I thought might be Fai's alts, but that was because they'd repeat Fai's posts almost word for word, and were also in a way related to "cooking". Those 2 accounts also don't post at all anymore. |
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| only short flashback was good, everything else was hopeless 2/5 |
| Sperm dolphins confirmed. I've given up on the second season. No matter how good the next fight is, it wouldn't make up for how much they dropped the ball on nearly everything else, and they already ruined the most important fight anyway. DEEN pretty much one-upped ufotable on all the important scenes in the second half of UBW except Rho Aias and Gae Bolg. But even for all of Ufo's flashy rendition, it creates a plot hole because Gae Bolg tears Archer up, but then in the very next scene is perfectly-clothed without a scratch on him. And so Fate continues its trend of mixed-bag adaptations. Still isn't a terrible series but the fact that ufotable had such a strong start makes it all the more disappointing to see it fall so far from where it began. |
kingcity20 said: Oh for the love of -_- nvm gotta love MAL |
| Lol these talks about some people being alts of Fai. Also #Dolphins2015 |
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| The narrative rhythm was normal, there was not even time no disruption of what we expected. The characters almost always are of two kinds, those who are too embarrassed to everything and so those fools do not understand anything; Would that there were sometimes also the option C. Perfect in the drawings and animations, just missing a great battle, action-packed and wickedness; fingers crossed. |
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