Forgetfulness said: ]Again, please bear with me but how is that foreshadowing? |
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tsudecimo said: There are none. You can read the manga 100 times and you won't find foreshadowing for the whole thing beyond three points: * apparently because RPGs and modern technology exist in HxHverse, that means a mass produced small nuclear bomb, that can be inserted inside a human is possible. * Netero's vague ''someone will have to sacrifice* which doesn't hint at anything beyond him or someone else from the hunters dying through killing himself. Which could have been easily a hint for Zero's hand as well. That's why vague stuff like this are meaningless. * Literally before the fight started, Netero chose a military thing area Pretty weak ''foreshadowing'' if you ask me. I won't count Knov's hinting at it, because it literally happen one or two chapters before the rose was revealed. I think what's funny about the whole situation is that the author had all the time in the world to think of better transition of events, and proper planning unlike his fellow mangaka who churn out chapters weekly. Yet, the whole arc had poor planning and pacing. What a joke of an arc. What's funny is that you claim he backed himself into a corner when it's pretty clear he already had planned out what was going to happen. You can call that anything you want, but he didn't back himself into a corner. He planned that out from the start whether you like it or not. And by revealing any more, he would have been giving away the plot before it happened. The fight itself posed an ethical debate about two tactics which are shunned by humanity nowadays - WMD's and suicide bombing, as well as making Netero a debatable sort of "villain" by manipulating Meruem into fighting rather than reasoning with him. It was also humanity's mastery at destruction which ended up leading to "victory". And you missed the whole Gungi battles with Komugi as foreshadowing. Meruem was able to plan and defeat anyone within the two dimensional plane which translates to the hand-to-hand fight, and how he could see everything on two dimensions, but was unprepared for the 3rd one. So maybe you should read it 1000 more times because 100 times may not be enough. |
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Isterio said: I guess you are right about that but I really hated But I do think that diseases are best suited for "good guys" like Roger or Itachi. Both of them were supernatural but still humans. . Anyway I'm not a fan of an op villain being defeated by disease but a medical condition to me is a great method. This was nicely done in Rurouni Kenshin. |
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Forgetfulness said: AttackOnTetris said: Again, please bear with me but how is that foreshadowing? I said in the spoiler thing. The foreshadowing (if you would call it that) is: Part of the allure of the story was trying to figure out what Netero actually had planned anyway. I think Togashi gave just enough hints to make it alluring, while not spoiling. |
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Forgetfulness said: Literally nothing you said indicates that there is more to the nuke than just an explosion. For all we know, Netero could have thought the explosion would be enough to kill Meruem, which it almost did if it weren't for outside intervention. They literally could have dropped one line that indicated that there was poison in the Rose rather than just an explosion without giving out the entire plot, like when they talked about the history of the bomb. The fact that the author didn't do so points far more towards him simply having a lack of foresight. |
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Forgetfulness said: Honestly, in this post and the one you directed at tsudecimo, there is very little that indicates there is an additional factor of poison... Yeah and I'm glad there wasn't. Seems like just a case of differing preferences here. |
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AttackOnTetris said: tsudecimo said: There are none. You can read the manga 100 times and you won't find foreshadowing for the whole thing beyond three points: * apparently because RPGs and modern technology exist in HxHverse, that means a mass produced small nuclear bomb, that can be inserted inside a human is possible. * Netero's vague ''someone will have to sacrifice* which doesn't hint at anything beyond him or someone else from the hunters dying through killing himself. Which could have been easily a hint for Zero's hand as well. That's why vague stuff like this are meaningless. * Literally before the fight started, Netero chose a military thing area Pretty weak ''foreshadowing'' if you ask me. I won't count Knov's hinting at it, because it literally happen one or two chapters before the rose was revealed. I think what's funny about the whole situation is that the author had all the time in the world to think of better transition of events, and proper planning unlike his fellow mangaka who churn out chapters weekly. Yet, the whole arc had poor planning and pacing. What a joke of an arc. What's funny is that you claim he backed himself into a corner when it's pretty clear he already had planned out what was going to happen. You can call that anything you want, but he didn't back himself into a corner. He planned that out from the start whether you like it or not. And by revealing any more, he would have been giving away the plot before it happened. The fight itself posed an ethical debate about two tactics which are shunned by humanity nowadays - WMD's and suicide bombing, as well as making Netero a debatable sort of "villain" by manipulating Meruem into fighting rather than reasoning with him. It was also humanity's mastery at destruction which ended up leading to "victory". And you missed the whole Gungi battles with Komugi as foreshadowing. Meruem was able to plan and defeat anyone within the two dimensional plane which translates to the hand-to-hand fight, and how he could see everything on two dimensions, but was unprepared for the 3rd one. So maybe you should read it 1000 more times because 100 times may not be enough. You just destroyed everything I said, such well backed up counter arguments/s The only thing that is funny about those posts, is how you expect me or anyone to simply believe the author didn't backed himself in a corner and planned this all along, while providing no evidence that he did, beyond one vague line. If you can find something that specifically hints at the rose, then I will gladly admit I'm wrong, beyond that I don't care for your defensive bullshit. That's where competent writers shine, they can hint at something good enough without revealing the surprise. Where they make the reader realize upon the plot twist, that this made sense all along because of specific hints at the past. Who gives a shit? did I say it didn't have themes or w/e? Good for you if you appreciate the thematic narrative and think it's the best, beautifully written, the best the medium will offer etc, etc but alas it's not relevant to the actual structure and planning of the arc. I don't even. What? Did you actually read what you wrote. Wait, wait, I got a better one. Meruem being a chimera ant itself is foreshadowing for the rose, because ants and other insects are always killed with bug spray and chemical, thus it only makes sense that Netero would use a technology, that would eradicate and kill Meruem eventually through chemicals and poison. it all makes sense now. Maybe you should try and back up your opinions well with something substantial if you are going to jump at everyone who dares say a bad thing about the arc. |
tsudecimoJul 15, 2015 6:07 PM
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| tsudecimo, you're the one who doesn't back up your opinions with anything other that you don't like it and that you'd rather it done a different way. That many people love how it was done is enough proof that you are just trying to project your own feelings onto subjective arguments. Like, why should there be an imperative to describe everything before it happens? There isn't and I'm glad there isn't cause it was able to transpire in a way that I appreciated. |
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Forgetfulness said: tsudecimo said: I diedI don't even. What? Did you actually read what you wrote. Wait, wait, I got a better one. Meruem being a chimera ant itself is foreshadowing for the rose, because ants and other insects are always killed with bug spray and chemical, thus it only makes sense that Netero would use a technology, that would eradicate and kill Meruem eventually through chemicals and poison. it all makes sense now. The ironic thing is that Togashi actually did play with the idea of "dying like a bug" from the Phantom Troupe vs Chimera Ants fight. Take that however you will. |
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| In a more philosophical sense, appreciation of a story can't be negated by someone else's opinions reasons for hating something. You are entitled to dislike anything you don't like but the moment you try to tell me that it is crap rather than you just don't like the way it was done, that is the time that I will tell you that you in fact are full of crap. I'm not telling you to like it. I'm just telling you to appreciate that tons of people love how it was done, and there are reasons for it. |
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Forgetfulness said: Because that's what's expected in decent writers. It's what prevents Gon from being like "oh yeah btw I learned this secret technique as a kid that allows me to kill anybody that I want to instantly. Let me just fuck bitches and get money and rule the world. Also, HxH is over because there's nobody that can face me now" Nope. That's what you expect. From the beginning, the viewer is treated to an almost omniscient view into Gon, yet a very distant view into Netero. So it's completely natural that Netero can "asspull" something unexpected because he's Netero and not Gon, and the viewer knows little about Netero. |
HalkenburgJul 15, 2015 6:27 PM
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| @Forgetfulness Are you talking specifically the poison or the rose in general? Because tsudecimo has posted evidences of foreshadowing while the poison itself is tantamount to radiation which goes hand in hand with a nuclear weapon. |
AttackOnTetris said: tsudecimo, you're the one who doesn't back up your opinions with anything other that you don't like it and that you'd rather it done a different way. That many people love how it was done is enough proof that you are just trying to project your own feelings onto subjective arguments. . Backup what? I presented every possible hint at the rose, and said they are weak because the are non-specific and and can be barely be called foreshadowing. The burden of proof is not on me. Yeah clearly, I never once explained I don't like this. tsudecimo said: What's wrong, was the build up for the ants, as a threat to humanity, that's the general tone, while going into the invasion. That Meruem, has the potential to dominate the world, therefore, the ants would become the dominant species, that's what most of the first lackluster half of the arc was about. Then Meruem vs Netero happens, and by the end of it, I realize that the ants didn't have even the slimiest of chance, to be a real threat. The rose was more for the thematic narrative of the overdone ''humans can be more evil than any creature'' trope, along with some other themes, I didn't care for, it sacrifice the threat of the ants (plot) for it's sake, and the whole purpose of the damn arc, in the first place. Raising all sorts of questions, like why did they even bother with a specialized team to eradicate them, if a cheap mass produced device can kill the strongest of them, which can be explained by weak reasons, that I really didn't care for. The consequences of the rose, pretty much ruined what's left of the arc for me, and made it feel like a huge waste of time. Only significant thing was the focus on the protagonist (Goku), and his relationship with the deturogaonist (Killua), and a reason for the election arc to happen, which was actually plot relevant. Like I said you can appreciate the thematic narrative all you want, I don't give two shits. It something that was pulled out of thin air, that lead to a very underwhelming and disappointing conclusion for an arc that has been dragging for a while. It affected the plot negatively, and had no good foreshadowing. I really think, better foreshadowing would have the whole situation less convoluted, and out of thin air. Like, why should there be an imperative to describe everything before it happens? There isn't and I'm glad there isn't cause it was able to transpire in a way that I appreciated. Just google foreshadowing? it's a literary device with it's merits. Just because you don't care for foreshadowing doesn't mean everybody doesn't. LOL, if you are glad, then why in gods name are you arguing that it was foreshadowed and planned all along? like what, this is just a defensive urge to deny the criticism of others, even if you don't know how to counter argue it properly? AttackOnTetris said: Forgetfulness said: Because that's what's expected in decent writers. It's what prevents Gon from being like "oh yeah btw I learned this secret technique as a kid that allows me to kill anybody that I want to instantly. Let me just fuck bitches and get money and rule the world. Also, HxH is over because there's nobody that can face me now" Nope. That's what you expect. From the beginning, the viewer is treated to an almost omniscient view into Gon, yet a very distant view into Netero. So it's completely natural that Netero can "asspull" something unexpected because he's Netero and not Gon, and the viewer knows little about Netero. lol, that would make sense if he was talking about Zero's hand. The rose has nothing to do with Netero's specifically as it's not an ability. But a plot device that nobody saw coming. |
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Agafin said: @Forgetfulness the rose in general? Because tsudecimo has posted evidences of foreshadowing lol |
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tsudecimo said: Agafin said: @Forgetfulness the rose in general? Because tsudecimo has posted evidences of foreshadowing lol You did :p even though you consider them vague and tried to hied the one with Knov. |
| I feel sorry for those who haven't watched/read Hunter x Hunter. |
"Hi!" |
Agafin said: tsudecimo said: lol You did :p even though you consider them vague and tried to hied the one with Knov. sigh if you even count Knovs then sigh |
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Forgetfulness said: Agafin said: I am arguing about the poison, which is revealed a while after the rose with no real foreshadowing. And I'm pretty sure the poison was something different that was specifically added into the bomb, not radiation. Like it would be less bad if it was the actual nuke's radiation@Forgetfulness Are you talking specifically the poison or the rose in general? Because tsudecimo has posted evidences of foreshadowing while the poison itself is tantamount to radiation which goes hand in hand with a nuclear weapon. (at least from what my memory tells me. If I'm wrong correct me) Radiation came with the nuke |
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Forgetfulness said: From what I recall, it's kinda the same but with some added aesthetics to fit the conclusion he had in mind. "Propagates rapidly", "easily transmissible", "persists in the body", "produced by nuclear explosion" etc all are characteristics of nuclear radiation.Agafin said: I am arguing about the poison, which is revealed a while after the rose with no real foreshadowing. And I'm pretty sure the poison was something different that was specifically added into the bomb, not radiation. Like it would be less bad if it was the actual nuke's radiation@Forgetfulness Are you talking specifically the poison or the rose in general? Because tsudecimo has posted evidences of foreshadowing while the poison itself is tantamount to radiation which goes hand in hand with a nuclear weapon. (at least from what my memory tells me. If I'm wrong correct me) |
tsudecimo said: Agafin said: You did :p even though you consider them vague and tried to hied the one with Knov. sigh if you even count Knovs then sigh You bet I do. It is the best piece of foreshadowing and happened 8 chapters before the bomb was revealed. Between, that chapter (ch 290) was released in December 2008 while the one with the rose (ch 298) was in February 2010 so that tells you something about how far ahead Togashi had the rose in mind. |
tsudecimo said: Backup what? I presented every possible hint at the rose, and said they are weak because the are non-specific and and can be barely be called foreshadowing. The burden of proof is not on me. I don't have to "prove" anything. I loved how it was done, period, end of statement. One of the reasons was in the incomplete foreshadowing and the way and quantity the little information happened to be revealed. If you didn't appreciate it, that's your problem not mine. I hate Gurren Lagann, and wish I didn't, but that's my problem, not anyone else's. And I don't make it a point to go into Gurren Lagann boards and tell them that elements of the show are crap. Yeah clearly, I never once explained I don't like this. Exactly, you explained why you didn’t like it. It didn’t match up to what you look for in anime, and again, that’s your problem, not mine. As for why a cheap mass-produced device couldn’t be used to kill all of them, there were millions of people gathered next to the palace hypnotized with Pouf’s scales. Any WMD powerful enough to kill Meruem would also kill the people, which is why they had to get Meruem out of the palace area into an isolated area. Also a more minor point: The Hunter’s Association also had to evade the law. There would be huge environmental and ethical concerns for dropping rose(s) onto a place near a huge gathering of civilians not intended for nuclear testing, and the Hunter’s Association would not be able to hide their trick. They got paid to accomplish a job and they intend to hold onto their public image. Leaving a giant crater where the palace was wouldn’t be a great way to accomplish that, and they want to come off as the hero in the situation. Even after the fight was over, they hid what really happened with Netero and the Rose. Like I said you can appreciate the thematic narrative all you want, I don't give two shits. It something that was pulled out of thin air, that lead to a very underwhelming and disappointing conclusion for an arc that has been dragging for a while. It affected the plot negatively, and had no good foreshadowing. I really think, better foreshadowing would have the whole situation less convoluted, and out of thin air. Good, at least you’re being self-aware now that you are speaking completely from your personal desires. You desire a certain amount of foreshadowing that I don’t care for. I think it conveys bitter reality a lot better than knowing everything that’s out there and then having a typical DBZ-style fight. Like, why should there be an imperative to describe everything before it happens? There isn't and I'm glad there isn't cause it was able to transpire in a way that I appreciated. Just google foreshadowing? it's a literary device with it's merits. Just because you don't care for foreshadowing doesn't mean everybody doesn't. LOL, if you are glad, then why in gods name are you arguing that it was foreshadowed and planned all along? like what, this is just a defensive urge to deny the criticism of others, even if you don't know how to counter argue it properly? You apparently don’t understand logic very well. Someone said they hated it because there wasn’t foreshadowing and I was just telling them that there was. I wasn’t saying it was complete foreshadowing, or that I liked it because there was complete foreshadowing. I loved the exact amount of foreshadowing that was there, and how it was done. Not all of my comments have a distinct agenda, so you should stop projecting your feelings onto what I’m saying. AttackOnTetris said: Nope. That's what you expect. From the beginning, the viewer is treated to an almost omniscient view into Gon, yet a very distant view into Netero. So it's completely natural that Netero can "asspull" something unexpected because he's Netero and not Gon, and the viewer knows little about Netero. lol, that would make sense if he was talking about Zero's hand. The rose has nothing to do with Netero's specifically as it's not an ability. But a plot device that nobody saw coming. Now you’re just setting arbitrary rules onto what can and can’t be revealed. You are biased toward Nen fighting techniques which is a legitimate opinion. I’m not, but I can see why you’d feel that way, cause Nen is a great system. |
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| I get flashbacks to naruto's final arc where its super cheap, we want to see the final battles be final battles not to have things get cheaped out on by something else killing a character off. |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
| Don't much care how they die, as long as they die. |
| "The name's Gambit. Remember it." -Gambit "X-Men '97"  |
| I think it's refreshing to see a villain defeated by something else than a Finishing Move. |
on 
| #NotTalkingAboutHxH I don't mind it. If they're going to stick to being realistic then the only other option is that the villain annihilates the protagonist and what kind of show would that be? ( Actually it sounds pretty cool but that's besides the point... ) |
| I'll laugh and then I'll get mad because its just stupid. |
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| I want their dying to say something about the character. The villain should die because his way of perceiving the world was wrong. What should defeat him was not the hero with his Sword of Justice but the holes in the villain's worldview. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
CynicalWindmill said: Agreed.That said, it can be a piece of clever irony to see a powerful person be brought down by a mundane cause. |
| Is the thread refers to Meruem who died with radiation poisoning? |
| F0XFIRE said: OP 4 most butthurt bitch on MAL. |
| God, spoilers everywhere... Agafin said: Impala said: For his death, I'll give you that but then , that's cheap. Not a clever move. |
| This thread should be tagged "HUNTER X HUNTER MAJOR SPOILERS" and moved to the HxH 2011 subforum. Impala said: God, spoilers everywhere... Agafin said: |
AttackOnTetris said: tsudecimo said: Yes death sucked big time, like the his arc in general. Yeah if you like all the world's problems solved with typical hand to hand fighting, then you'll hate it. It's at least better than an atomic bomb to solve everything. Right...? |
| If it is done right it's cool, that's all. |
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TokonatsuYuu said: Atomic bombs are never a bad ending!AttackOnTetris said: Yeah if you like all the world's problems solved with typical hand to hand fighting, then you'll hate it. It's at least better than an atomic bomb to solve everything. Right...? |
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Milk_is_Special said: TokonatsuYuu said: Atomic bombs are never a bad ending!It's at least better than an atomic bomb to solve everything. Right...? Yeah. So hxh should have just ended. Kurapika should search for the bomb to suicide bomb phantom troupe. Any potential threats are to be bombed. Hunter association better follow the world leaders' orders or have their main building bombed. Sigh... I just don't look forward to the manga anymore.. |
TokonatsuYuu said: Milk_is_Special said: Atomic bombs are never a bad ending! Yeah. So hxh should have just ended. Kurapika should search for the bomb to suicide bomb phantom troupe. Any potential threats are to be bombed. Hunter association better follow the world leaders' orders or have their main building bombed. Sigh... I just don't look forward to the manga anymore.. Get fucked, kiddo. |
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| I had a feeling people would talk about HxH '11... Anyway, I feel like anything cliché or coincidental such as this can be made awesome thanks to good writing, pleasing aesthetics, nice music and less of a "fake" feel. (Yes, I'm talking about ) |
| It's time you look inward and begin asking yourself the big question, "Who are you, and what do you want?" - Uncle Iroh |
| [quote=Milk_is_Special] TokonatsuYuu said: Milk_is_Special said: Atomic bombs are never a bad ending! Yeah. So hxh should have just ended. Kurapika should search for the bomb to suicide bomb phantom troupe. Any potential threats are to be bombed. Hunter association better follow the world leaders' orders or have their main building bombed. Sigh... I just don't look forward to the manga anymore.. I easily get bored by long story arcs and slow-pacing in shonen. But IMO the Chimera Ant Arc was the most enjoyable and well-written arc in any show I've ever watched. I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND why people might not like it, though - especially the ending. |
| It's time you look inward and begin asking yourself the big question, "Who are you, and what do you want?" - Uncle Iroh |
| [quote=gHostickles] Milk_is_Special said: TokonatsuYuu said: Yeah. So hxh should have just ended. Kurapika should search for the bomb to suicide bomb phantom troupe. Any potential threats are to be bombed. Hunter association better follow the world leaders' orders or have their main building bombed. Sigh... I just don't look forward to the manga anymore.. I easily get bored by long story arcs and slow-pacing in shonen. But IMO the Chimera Ant Arc was the most enjoyable and well-written arc in any show I've ever watched. It was a good read except for that troll ending and the manga should end after gon found his father, then make a side story concluding phantom troupe and kurapika. Cause he just killed his own universe. |
| [quote=TokonatsuYuu] gHostickles said: Milk_is_Special said: I easily get bored by long story arcs and slow-pacing in shonen. But IMO the Chimera Ant Arc was the most enjoyable and well-written arc in any show I've ever watched. It was a good read except for that troll ending and the manga should end after gon found his father, then make a side story concluding phantom troupe and kurapika. Cause he just killed his own universe. Agreed on the side story. The yorknew city arc felt anticlimactic. |
| It's time you look inward and begin asking yourself the big question, "Who are you, and what do you want?" - Uncle Iroh |
TokonatsuYuu said: Milk_is_Special said: Atomic bombs are never a bad ending! Yeah. So hxh should have just ended. Kurapika should search for the bomb to suicide bomb phantom troupe. Any potential threats are to be bombed. Hunter association better follow the world leaders' orders or have their main building bombed. Sigh... I just don't look forward to the manga anymore.. If you actually read the manga and use then I'm sure you'll see the limitations of the bomb. Hint: A bomb can't cure a disease, it can't 'kill' a natural disaster etc. |
Isterio said: Agafin said: If you actually read the manga and use then I'm sure you'll see the limitations of the bomb. Hint: A bomb can't cure a disease, it can't 'kill' a natural disaster etc. That´s not true, it requires a large amount of luck and has to be a coincidence only fiction can create. But radiation literally is used to cure cancer patients. So no you could technically use a bomb to cure cancer aka a disease. Radiation=/=bomb. How are you going to use a nuclear bomb to cure a patient lol. |
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