Noldorin said: Is this your personal opinion or the law in your country? Laws about alcohol and drugs likely differ between countries. But I'm pretty sure in most countries if it's proven that a guy has a mental disorder that caused him to commit a crime he may not even go to the jail but be sent to an asylum instead. Surely you can't hold a sane and unsane person responsible for their actions to the same degree? No, it's how the law works everywhere, psychopathic disorder is not an excuse, neither is having taken drugs, it's how it works everywhere. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
cabacc2 said: GuusWayne said: I'm not saying this is the case with all rape but a large percentage of it has the women in revealing clothing. We all have desires and the way women dress these days it's like they want to get raped, it's very provoking. I'd say they have a responsibility in that aspect. a large percentage? you obviously dont know how a lot of rape happens. actually its impossible to "want to get raped" if you want it to happen, its not rape. jailbait |
GuusWayne said: Women should be able to wear whatever they want without fear of being raped. The idea that "Oh, she was dressed like a slut, she's asking for it" does make sense, however men should know that raping is wrong. And being drunk or having some mental disorder doesn't make it any less bad.I'm not saying this is the case with all rape but a large percentage of it has the women in revealing clothing. We all have desires and the way women dress these days it's like they want to get raped, it's very provoking. I'd say they have a responsibility in that aspect. |
an egomaniac and a fool |
cabacc2 said: That's stupid, you gain nothing from inspiring fear into a stranger, it has to do calming your urges. Your research seem baseless.1. there is a high percentage of rape cases that are towards children. This already debunks your statement. 2. doing the necessary research is up to you. but.. one time: "i made a small research because i found ur question interesting and found out than first as i thought it is all about domination and wanting to inspire fear in the victim rather than wanting to calm an urge or desire for sex , so therefor raping has little to do with what the person being raped is wearing but ratter about her ( her would be 90 percent of the cases ) vulnerability . yes is about finding an opportunity but it is more about wanting to feel powerful and i would guess is all about having a really low self stem and wanting to not feel that way but i would guess not in all cases . the second thing i found out i would like to post it as it is so here : Alcohol and/or other drug uses is frequently involved in rape. In 47% of rapes, both the victim and the perpetrator had been drinking. In 17%, only the perpetrator had been. 7% of the time, only the victim had been drinking. Rapes where neither the victim nor the perpetrator had been drinking were 29% of all rapes ." -> http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071210213150AAKMefV whether this numbers are true or not is irrelevant. The most important factor are not the clothes of the women, but the women themselves. It should be pretty obvious... |
| SCARY MONSTER |
| @Guus Of course you gain nothing, but somebody committing an anger rape does. cabacc2 said: Immahnoob said: Noldorin said: Is this your personal opinion or the law in your country? Laws about alcohol and drugs likely differ between countries. But I'm pretty sure in most countries if it's proven that a guy has a mental disorder that caused him to commit a crime he may not even go to the jail but be sent to an asylum instead. Surely you can't hold a sane and unsane person responsible for their actions to the same degree? No, it's how the law works everywhere, psychopathic disorder is not an excuse, neither is having taken drugs, it's how it works everywhere. if you are insane and you commit a crime, you will be sent to psychiatry and not to jail. If someone gave the drugs to you without you knowing it, you are innocent. if alcohol is involved, this can lead to a weaker punishment. this is how it works, at least in germany. There is no first world country I am aware of where it works differently. I said psychopathic disorder because that's THE ONLY exception. Psychopaths are NOT insane. I wasn't talking about people getting drugged by other people, I'm talking about those that took them themselves. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Emnay said: GuusWayne said: Women should be able to wear whatever they want without fear of being raped. The idea that "Oh, she was dressed like a slut, she's asking for it" does make sense, however men should know that raping is wrong. And being drunk or having some mental disorder doesn't make it any less bad.I'm not saying this is the case with all rape but a large percentage of it has the women in revealing clothing. We all have desires and the way women dress these days it's like they want to get raped, it's very provoking. I'd say they have a responsibility in that aspect. I bet feminists would be all over the place if men started exposing half of their dick when walking in public. |
| I agree with OP |
| If you know something bad might happen to you when you go somewhere, you shouldn't go there. |
 |
| The clothes matter, a bitch with a short skirt is more likely to get raped than someone who show less skin etc. |
| SCARY MONSTER |
GuusWayne said: The clothes matter, a bitch with a short skirt is more likely to get raped than someone who show less skin etc. And why exactly is someone who wears a short skirt a 'bitch'? That's an incredibly stupid thing to say. |
| "If you love someone Follow your heart Cause love comes once If you’re lucky enough" |
GuusWayne said: The clothes matter, a bitch with a short skirt is more likely to get raped than someone who show less skin etc. proof. |
| Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
Immahnoob said: @Guus Of course you gain nothing, but somebody committing an anger rape does. cabacc2 said: Immahnoob said: Noldorin said: Is this your personal opinion or the law in your country? Laws about alcohol and drugs likely differ between countries. But I'm pretty sure in most countries if it's proven that a guy has a mental disorder that caused him to commit a crime he may not even go to the jail but be sent to an asylum instead. Surely you can't hold a sane and unsane person responsible for their actions to the same degree? No, it's how the law works everywhere, psychopathic disorder is not an excuse, neither is having taken drugs, it's how it works everywhere. if you are insane and you commit a crime, you will be sent to psychiatry and not to jail. If someone gave the drugs to you without you knowing it, you are innocent. if alcohol is involved, this can lead to a weaker punishment. this is how it works, at least in germany. There is no first world country I am aware of where it works differently. I said psychopathic disorder because that's THE ONLY exception. Psychopaths are NOT insane. I wasn't talking about people getting drugged by other people, I'm talking about those that took them themselves. So you changed your mind about the alcohol part then? I can understand if drugs don't get a sentence lowering though. It could be said the guy is at fault for using drugs where there are people around in the first place. |
Shiratori99 said: developGuusWayne said: The clothes matter, a bitch with a short skirt is more likely to get raped than someone who show less skin etc. proof. |
an egomaniac and a fool |
cabacc2 said: Noldorin said: So you changed your mind about alcohol then? I can understand if drugs don't get a sentence lowering though. It could be said the guy is at fault for using drugs where there are people around. I would totally support a law that denies all sentence lowering when alcohol is involved. Actually I'm against alcohol alltogether. But most societies and governments seem to think it's an ok product(there are even adverts of it everywhere) So I can't blame people for using it, the way things are. And I can't hold a drunk guy completely responsible for his actions since alcohol and being drunk are seen as normal/good things. Drugs are seen as pretty much an illegal thing and is shunned by governments so maybe that's what makes the difference. |
wubikro said: Why do people want to completely take away responsibility from the victim, What part of VICTIM do you not understand here? |
| Click on this. I dare you. | MAL Fantasy Football League | Currently Watching List RWBY Club. RWBY is anime. Deal with it. |
Noldorin said: So you changed your mind about the alcohol part then? I can understand if drugs don't get a sentence lowering though. It could be said the guy is at fault for using drugs where there are people around in the first place. I didn't change it at all, it's just that I implied it because I talked about drugs and those change your state of mind just like alcohol, a little bit less but still. Mod Edit: quote tower fixed. |
ThangLongFeb 25, 2014 10:06 AM
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Immahnoob said: I didn't change it at all, it's just that I implied it because I talked about drugs and those change your state of mind just like alcohol, a little bit less but still. I was asking because cabacc2 said alcohol could cause a sentence lowering(contrary to your previous claim) and you didn't object. I googled the subject and can't find much, that's why I wanted to make things clear. Actually, it doesn't really matter anyway. Alcohol was just a part of an example and it wasn't my main point. |
| Well Alcohol plays a huge role in it, but most rapes are likely to be by someone you know here are some facts and figures collected from Interpol and a US study on the Issue across the northern hemisphere. I find it of note that it seems to mostly be stuck to the 14-30 age demograph and just the general views from the attacker not seeing it as rape, and the woman even as noted toward the end sleeping with them again. Short of being a social issue it also might play a role biologically. And if the later is true, then that makes the task all the more difficult. |
| I agree with the OP. I think a person can take some precautions like not getting drunk, not going to places with people you don't know, walking alone at night etc. |
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wubikro said: Why do people want to completely take away responsibility from the victim, That's where I stopped reading. There's words for the level of stupidity you hold. I Have not found them yet. You have shit taste in anime, that's the best I've got. |
Thebigofan said: But that isn't a stance you can disagree with, it's just a factI agree with the OP. I think a person can take some precautions like not getting drunk, not going to places with people you don't know, walking alone at night etc. "Not being in dangerous situations will decrease dangerous events" I don't see the discussion value besides provoking victim blame |
| Want to talk? Club! "Would you like an anti-psychotic?" *Bonus points if you leave a comment about the meaning of my signature.* |
| >don't walk down dark alleys wearing expensive watches and shoes Totally reasonable advice. >lock your car doors and don't leave your keys inside Quite reasonable. >don't get drunk off your ass and act like a slu- FUCK YOU PATRIARCH DON'T JUDGE ME I DO WHAT I WANT WATEVA WATEVA |
| Never forget, that if you post a topic, you're not allowed to post in it yourself, by order of MAL administration. |
| Is that so? Such a long paragraph to state something we all should already know? You have to learn to get to the point. In most rape cases, people should never blame the victim, yes, it would be just fucking stupid, inconsiderate and retarded. This always assuming they are "rape cases", and not consensual sex disguised as rape. Also there is these other cases where the victim put herself (or himself) in danger by doing stupid things and lacking of common sense, but even in these cases would not make sense to say: "she deserved it". Summarizing, blaming the victim is just retarded and doesn't help at all, what for? To stigmatize rape victims and make them not to want to denounce it? It's stupid. Objectively, in most rape cases it's only the rapist's fault and him/her should be severely punished... I could talk about the death penalty and castration, but I don't want to derail the topic. Ugh OP, why do you feel the need to state the obvious? |
I luv u |
| Can we please stop saying "Develop"... Read this if you want. It's kind of long. If you flame me, just remember that I'm hotter than you, and I will win!!! *flexes* TLDR You can't control everything, and you surely can't tell the future. But if you don't want to get struck by lighting, it's best not to play golf during a storm in Tampa, Florida =-) |
text27 said: yes if you read the whole thing...robots will only kill the people you put in-front of them so yeah. RandomChampion said: u were that homie in the thong werent u |
UnoPuntoCinco said: If you know something bad might happen to you when you go somewhere, you shouldn't go there. Most rapes occur in either the victim's home or the home of the victim's family member or friend, so this argument holds no water. |
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Cottonrabbit said: Jaguer91 said: Is that so? Such a long paragraph to state something we all should already know? You have to learn to get to the point. Unsure if this is this aimed at me or at the OP? The OP. |
| I luv u |
| why are people associating responsibility and victim. Two differen- okay. No one is trying to Victim Blame. OP is just trying to say it'd be better for women (and some men) make better choices to avoid being raped. Yes, people should have better self-control. However, they don't. So when you say something like " I'm going to wear what I want and people shouldn't rape me because self-control", You look stupid as fuck. >: and people don't read. what's with this most rapes happen at home crap. op was talking about specific situations. |
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Cottonrabbit said: But is it also so unreasonable to expect that if for some reason you are incapacitated, even be it because you drank too much, to trust the men around you to make sure you are okay instead of raping you? When dealing with strangers: Assume the worst, hope for the best. It's (sadly) naive to think someone you don't know will not take advantage of you if he can. |
| Proud founder of the 20+ virgins club. Please visit my manga blog for manga updates and more! Mup da doo didda po mo muhfuggen bix nood ^ Need someone who can translate this. Pm me pls. |
wubikro said: GuusWayne said: There is little someone can do about rape, it's rape after all, against your will, if the victim could do something about they definitely would but there is no sense in blaming someone who has no power over the situaton. I'm not blaming the victim for the rape. The rapists alone are responsible for the rape, but who's responsible for the victim willingly getting intoxicated past the point of consciousness in a room full of people they hardly know? Doesn't mean the person is asking or deserves to get raped, but they're putting themselves into a position where their chances of being raped are exponentially higher than normal. You're literally VICTIM BLAMING here!!!! Why would someone's first thought when they seen an unconscious girl is to go fuck her without her consent?? That's monster behavior and you're fucking disgusting tbh. |
wubikro said: angrygirl said: You're literally VICTIM BLAMING here!!!! Why would someone's first thought when they seen an unconscious girl is to go fuck her without her consent?? That's monster behavior and you're fucking disgusting tbh. I'm not victim blaming. I'm saying victims are responsible for their own actions before the crime even occurs. Or are you saying that criminals should be held responsible for the victims actions before the crime is even committed? So what you're saying... is that you're not saying it's the victim's fault... you're just saying that it's the victim's actions fault? -_- You're not blaming the victim, but you are. which is it? It can't be both... either it's 100% the rapists responsibility for rape, or you are placing some blame on the victim. You can't try to play devil's advocate and say the victim's negligence is why they were raped, and then try to play the good guy and say it's entirely the rapists fault. Or do you not understand the definition of blame? In case you really don't know what it means... " : to find fault with : censure <the right to praise or blame a literary work> 2 a : to hold responsible <they blame me for everything> b : to place responsibility for <blames it on me> — blam·er noun — to blame : at fault : responsible <says he's not to blame for the accident> " By saying that victims irresponsibility was the determining factor in the rape taking place, you ARE placing direct fault on the victim... aka, you are BLAMING VICTIMS. I continue to believe you have good intentions, and just royally suck at getting them across. IF your goal in posting this thread was to spread preventative awareness, then you have failed. It's like telling someone whose child just died what you think they could have done differently that would have prevented it. Is lecturing someone after a traumatizing event going to do anyone in the world any favors? NO! If you are determined to preach safety to women, then leave rape victims out of it, and focus on "what ifs". You really don't understand the weight of your words. I get the feeling some people here do, and are just heartless low lives that don't care. But I think at least OP, you just don't understand that your posts are not only ineffective, they are detrimental to any progress to be made in the way of rape prevention. Think about it this way... let's pretend you have a girlfriend (or if you do, imagine this). She gets raped. Now, she has 2 options... not reporting it and pretending it never happened, dealing with things alone and just trying to forget it.... or reporting it knowing that some people will not believe her, and others will respond to the accusations by calling her a whore, telling her she deserved it, telling her it was her own fault, telling her that her irresponsible decisions brought it on, or that she was partially responsible as you are saying. She knows in that case she will not only still have to deal with it alone, and try to forget it happened, but that she will have a hell to live through as she likely loses her friends and everyone now treats her like a criminal. She not only has to deal with the rape, but with society making her feel like a disgusting human being. There are 2 reasons people do not come forward about rape... fear of the rapist... and fear of the way she will be treated for reporting it. HOW are you helping in this case? HOW does shaming rape victims help any? I'm not just talking about people who have already come out with their situations. I'm talking about the members that are reading this very thread. There are likely several who have been raped, I know for sure at least a couple, and there are likely a few who have never reported it, or have been considering reporting it. WHY would they report it when they know reporting it means facing ridicule such as this? Guess what? What you are saying is the very definition of victim shaming. If you want to help women keep themselves safer, then leave actual rape victims out of it. You don't need to tell us anything, most of us could probably write a book on the topic. So turn your attention to those who have never been through it, in the hopes that they never do. What you are doing is not protecting the innocent, you are attacking them. |
JadeQuetzalFeb 25, 2014 10:28 AM
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angrygirl said: Rapist or not, it'd be alot of peoples thoughts if they see a hot chick unconcious, it's just most people don't act on those urges.You're literally VICTIM BLAMING here!!!! Why would someone's first thought when they seen an unconscious girl is to go fuck her without her consent?? That's monster behavior and you're fucking disgusting tbh. |
| SCARY MONSTER |
| Yea once I saw a female eating a banana in public, and I totally blame her for giving me indecent thoughts to force her to give me a fellatio. Jeez be more responsible women.... |
cabacc2 said: A is walks alone through bad neighbourhood at night in a skinny dress = A drives drunk B is in a permanent state of having no morals and is brutal and reckless = B drives drunk the rape = the two cars crash Wow... I'm in a bit of shock that someone would actually compare wearing a tight dress to driving drunk. No, your logic is not legit no matter which language you say it in. Your mind is so warped I don't even know where to start. But as I know most people are not easily swayed on this topic, I am not even bothering to touch on WHY I think women are not to blame. My entire point has been, what's your point in saying all this? Do you believe saying this will actually somehow prevent rape from happening as often? In which case I direct you to go back and read my other comments over.... or do you just enjoy adding mental anguish to someone who has likely already suffered more than you will ever have to, and will continue to for the rest of their lives? What do you hope to achieve by placing blame on rape victims? |
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cabacc2 said: It's illogical because the rapist is the drunk driver in that situation. The woman with the skinny dress is the random pedestrian that gets hit by a car due the fact that an idiot thought it was a good idea to get behind the wheel while intoxicated.I dont see how this is illogical. |
Makomonogatari said: lupadim said: The best part is that you somehow actually exist.And the best part is that no one can prove it wrong |
| No need to point it out more clearly. Your mistake is the following: Clearly the rapist is the drunk driver and the woman with the skinny dress is the pedestrian. In the drunk driver situation: The pedestrian is walking 1. Alone, 2. At night, 3. Not visible enough, 4. Crossing the road. |
Makomonogatari said: lupadim said: The best part is that you somehow actually exist.And the best part is that no one can prove it wrong |
| So basically, what people are saying is. If you don't want to get raped, don't drink ever, don't go out at night, never meet new people and never wear skimpy clothes. Now I'm very sure there are places in the world, where women can't do any of the above things, and I'm fairly sure that rape still happens in those places. What you want to do is take away any kind of freedom that women have by blaming them for when a man can't control himself. Well, I have a very simply solution to this, how about men are no longer allowed to drink alcohol? You're so determined to blame women for getting drunk, wearing a style of clothes. So why don't we just go ahead and do the same and blame men for not being able to control themselves while drunk, why is women's responsibility while drunk in question, while men's isn't? So let's ban men from ever touching alcohol, or going out at night, if men aren't out at night, how could they rape someone. Seems like a perfectly fair argument right? There is so much sexism about this subject and I'm convinced that most of you just don't care at all, even a small bit about those people that are raped, you've got people early on this thread calling women who wear skimpy outfits 'bitches', even though he knows nothing about them at all, and this attitude does exist, people think those women deserve it because apparently what someone wears is there personality, and the person who raped them was clearly someone she had treated badly so she was 'asking' for it. This whole attitude is disgusting. I hope one day you realise just how disgusting it is and you feel ashamed of yourselves. |
| "If you love someone Follow your heart Cause love comes once If you’re lucky enough" |
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