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RedMage23 said: That can't be true, at least not entirely. Remember John Titor. John Titor appeared in the year 2000 in the beta world line, while in the alpha "he" didn't show up until 2010. There's only one factor that determines whether it's Alpha or Beta, and that's Okabe's 1st D-mail in 2010. It's doesn't matter which year, if logically, John Titor first appears. They are two totally different worldlines. They are inconsistent with each other. Note that when we're talking about time travel, the past is also subjected to the change of the future. If you're questioning how John Titor could possibly travel to 2000 then 2010, the secret lies in the functionality of Beta's time machine. |
KansokushaSep 2, 2011 11:26 PM
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| Worldline is not tree. It is never split. Suzaha said at Ep14. 'World line is like a woven braid or this rope. This rope looks like it's a single line, but actually many thin threads comprise it. The threads are the world lines. Each never touches the others, but they all go to the same place.' 'Each never touches the others' This means that the worldline is independent, and is predetermined the past and the future. You can notice this is determinism if you imagine only one worldline. It is general that we can not time travel in this world that based on determinism. But S;G world is not determinism. It is the attractor field theory The attractor field has Infinity 'possibility worldline' and one 'active worldline'. The worldline will sift new worldline when It detect causality contradiction( timemachine,timeleap.D-mail). Old 'active worldline' disappear. because It has causality contradiction. New worldline is build from the result of causality contradiction. Of course this was exist as 'possiblilty worldline'. 'The result of causality contradiction' This is first D-mail. |
darudarl said: Worldline is not tree. It is never split. Suzaha said at Ep14. 'World line is like a woven braid or this rope. This rope looks like it's a single line, but actually many thin threads comprise it. The threads are the world lines. Each never touches the others, but they all go to the same place.' 'Each never touches the others' This means that the worldline is independent, and is predetermined the past and the future. You can notice this is determinism if you imagine only one worldline. It is general that we can not time travel in this world that based on determinism. But S;G world is not determinism. It is the attractor field theory The attractor field has Infinity 'possibility worldline' and one 'active worldline'. The worldline will sift new worldline when It detect causality contradiction( timemachine,timeleap.D-mail). Old 'active worldline' disappear. because It has causality contradiction. New worldline is build from the result of causality contradiction. Of course this was exist as 'possiblilty worldline'. 'The result of causality contradiction' This is first D-mail. ^This. To be accurately, in Steins;Gate there's no "active" timeline for each Attractor Field, but overall one "active" timeline only. There is only one plane of existence. It's like a mask, filtering out all the other possibilities, reality is within the scope of the mask. And not to be confused, I prefer to call all those threads "timelines", and the infinite threads that are contained within the Attractor Field the "worldline". |
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| Have you watched the movie 6th day(2000) ...... The timeleap machine can actually copy 3.2T data into the computer and send it into the black hole to compress the data into 32bye then later send to the past just like d-mail and then paste it into the person's head using handphone wave. it sound so easy when Kurisi explain.... |
MorningGlorySep 3, 2011 12:40 AM
| ^QFT Everyone is once again ignoring the fact that Steins;Gate has 1% Fantasy in it. This story is created by VN writers not Scientists. It's up to them whether to stick with reality or not. "Don't over-analyze a fictional story" |
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| well ...it will take very long just to compress 3.2T of data and using black hole is the fastest method imo..The d-mail machine can only except 32byte, so they have no choice to compress it into 32byte. Then there's still the issue: How does it end up in the head of the person in the past? You need some machine capable of writing it back. hand phone's wave contain of 32byte of data.Using the wave like data to force the user from the past to remember the event of the future. The data simply copy from Okabe's mind(present) ,then send it like d-mail into Okabe's handphone(past) and then Okabe of the past pick up the call and receive the data wave from the handphone. "Don't over-analyze a fictional story" just explaining the simple process but the sci-fic detail is impossible to explain because its sci-fic.... |
MorningGlory said: "Don't over-analyze a fictional story" just explaining the simple process but the sci-fic detail is impossible to explain because its sci-fic.... It's all fun analyzing/discussing/debating about it, but we really need to know when to stop. -------------------------------------------- honestly, getting disappointed with the whole series just because some parts is not sci-fi anymore.. is just... meh. Famitsu didn't awarded Steins;Gate with the annual game of excellence award just because it's sci-fi. |
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| After watching this i realized i can't rate this show lower than 10, hence i made it 10 That was just sad, look at all Okabe went through, then just before you make the last transition of world lines, Chris appears with a broken message I wonder how this is it's just TOO EPIC |
lx said: .... anyway, let me explain on this.Kansokusha said: kaimax said: If that explanation is canon, all I can say is that I'm really disappointed. SERN is a organization that do experiment on Particle Physics and they show it out to the open public.Dark and secret experiment like human testing and time machine(laugh) is kept secret from the open public. The reason why deleting the message log of the first D-mail can cause such a big event because, SERN doesn't have the evidence to show to the public on why they need to capture it. We must know that the time machine can no longer function if it was removed from the lab due to the lifter below it and SERN doesn't know about it. IF Okabe is unable to make the time machine work even thou SERN has the prove(first D-mail), then SERN will use any kind of method to force Okabe to activate the time machine. BUT now that Okabe delete the only prove,there is nothing that SERN can do as long as if Okabe doesn't send another D-mail after the deletion .SERN can show to the public that Okabe is making a time machine Here I will mention again, the open public must not know that SERN is doing human testing to succeed in making time machine. Well, it doesn't matter if Okabe is the one who make it and surely SERN will not let Okabe show his timeleap machine to the public.Thus, SERN must immediately capture the time machine and the people that work in it. ...did I miss something?... |
| ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh, stopping WWIII i bet is going to involve going back to the previous time line, which now he cant do because he has just got rid of the phone microwave, i saw that happening the moment he said he didn't to start over as it should be, or some thing like that. i could bet money on my prediction! |
| they have finished recording of last episode. seems the rest episodes have no big modification from game. |
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| ^ look like a harem lol |
kusushi said: they have finished recording of last episode. I think all the seiyuu should take a group photo cosplaying as their own roles respectively. =] |
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| Why am I counting down the days until the next episode airs? |
lx said: Kansokusha said: kaimax said: so, I'm ju7st gonna copy paste the answers from the material book. You guys can start debating from there. "Q25. Here’s something that bothered many players… Why did the timeline shift just because they wiped a log entry from the Echelon database? A. John Titor mentions in one of his @Channel posts that if a significant event is changed at any point on a timeline, history will re-construct itself and thus, changing the events that happens following that point in the timeline which, is what happened in this case." This is not a spoiler since we already passed episode 22. ^By deleting the D-mail log entry from the Echelon in 17 Aug, the history from 28 Jul to 17 Aug has been rewritten - it doesn't matter whether SERN has already noticed the D-mail. They explained that as the D-mail is "heretical and outside the cycle of causality", simple interference of the D-mail like deleting can cause a dramatic change in divergence. If that explanation is canon, all I can say is that I'm really disappointed. Basically it's Suzuha and Daru's fault. Here's some explanation that I took from 4chan: 1. Delete the mail data from Echelon. 2. SERN's higher ups don't find out about the FG Lab. 3. Mayuri doesn't die. 2034 4. SERN doesn't complete the time machine by 2034. 5. SERN doesn't form a dystopia. 6. Daru doesn't get killed before fully completing the time machine. 7. Suzuha doesn't use a faulty time machine. 2010 8. Suzuha's time machine doesn't crash into Radio Kaikan. 9. Nakabachi's time machine conference doesn't get canceled from due to any satellite crashes. 10. Kurisu dies In another words, the future without dystopia changes the past because Suzuha now have her father and he can build a full time machine and will not crash in the building where Kurisu will get killed. |
xFelipeSep 3, 2011 9:00 AM
| If I understand very well : If he doesn't send the first d-mail : WW III is triggered. If he does : Dystopian future. |
| -Fixing- |
xFelipe said: lx said: Kansokusha said: kaimax said: so, I'm ju7st gonna copy paste the answers from the material book. You guys can start debating from there. "Q25. Here’s something that bothered many players… Why did the timeline shift just because they wiped a log entry from the Echelon database? A. John Titor mentions in one of his @Channel posts that if a significant event is changed at any point on a timeline, history will re-construct itself and thus, changing the events that happens following that point in the timeline which, is what happened in this case." This is not a spoiler since we already passed episode 22. ^By deleting the D-mail log entry from the Echelon in 17 Aug, the history from 28 Jul to 17 Aug has been rewritten - it doesn't matter whether SERN has already noticed the D-mail. They explained that as the D-mail is "heretical and outside the cycle of causality", simple interference of the D-mail like deleting can cause a dramatic change in divergence. If that explanation is canon, all I can say is that I'm really disappointed. Basically it's Suzuha and Daru's fault. Here's some explanation that I took from 4chan: 1. Delete the mail data from Echelon. 2. SERN's higher ups don't find out about the FG Lab. 3. Mayuri doesn't die. 2034 4. SERN doesn't complete the time machine by 2034. 5. SERN doesn't form a dystopia. 6. Daru doesn't get killed before fully completing the time machine. 7. Suzuha doesn't use a faulty time machine. 2010 8. Suzuha's time machine doesn't crash into Radio Kaikan. 9. Nakabachi's time machine conference doesn't get canceled from due to any satellite crashes. 10. Kurisu dies In another words, the future without dystopia changes the past because Suzuha now have her father and he can build a full time machine and will not crash in the building where Kurisu will get killed. that 1-10 could make sense but suzuha said that she crashed into radio kaikan because she made a mistake calculating the coordinates... so idunno |
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| ^ basically I think SERN itself don't know Okabe built a time machine. Only the person that involve in maintaining the special inscription of IBM data knows that.Even Rounder don't know about the time machine, the only person that knows is FB and Moeka =P what sort of stupid enemy of SERN would give Okabe warning message telling him not to further their research lol. Must be either Moeka or FB sent the message. |
MorningGlorySep 3, 2011 4:48 PM
| @shiromegami Suzuha miscalculated the coordinates in the alpha world line, where her father /had/ passed away. In the original world line the series started on, the beta line, Suzuha was able to land safely as her father was alive and able to help teach her everything about the time machine (I'm assuming). This can be seen in the very first episode of the series, at 2:06 to 2:14. The questions I have, though, relate to a few other things... At 7:26 to 7:33, Okabe and Mayuri hear a scream, and to me, that scream sounds a lot like Okabe... wondering if that has any real significance... Also, at 9:07 to 9:20, when the first D-Mail is sent... it's to Daru, without the use of the Phone Microwave. How does this happen? Does it mean anything that Daru was the receiver of the message? How is it that Okabe could shift world lines just through this text, or (as I just remembered this point) from when he was a child (those migraines or head twitches or whatever he had)? And why was the switch so damn severe? I mean, Okabe couldn't see ANYBODY, even though they were, in fact, there all around him. What made that line shift so different? Plus, how was that initial D-Mail sent so far into the past? There was a good 5 day difference (the Nakabachi lecture was the 23rd, but Daru states it's currentlyt he 28th at the end of the first episode), and I coulda sworn, even with the most advanced time travel techniques the lab came up with, there were essentially a few hours, MAYBE a day, that they could undo. XS |
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And why was the switch so damn severe? I mean, Okabe couldn't see ANYBODY, even though they were, in fact, there all around him. What made that line shift so different? A satellite fall down and the police preventing civilian from getting near of the site.Okabe and Mayuri want to take a closer look and they just went inside.Okabe don't remember that he go there because he wanted to see the satellite . |
MorningGlorySep 3, 2011 4:55 PM
| @Ravenhood Daru's phone was connected to the dewa-renchuu (name subject to change) when he received the text from okabe. of course this daru talking is from the alpha not the beta world line so where was daru's phone in the beta world line when he received the text? why was the switch so severe? i dont know. maybe kurisu is a secret queen of the world. and they didn't undo few hours/a day with d-mails they sent mails to the past the longest one back was to rukako's mom's pager (16 years). Youre thinking of time-leap which is only up to 48 hours which okabe first used for only a couple of hours and then 48 hours to when the time-leap machine wasnt even finished yet. anyways yea there's alot of missing information that the show is asking us to fill in but you cant fight it so.. |
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shiromegami said: @Ravenhood Daru's phone was connected to the dewa-renchuu (name subject to change) when he received the text from okabe. of course this daru talking is from the alpha not the beta world line so where was daru's phone in the beta world line when he received the text? why was the switch so severe? i dont know. maybe kurisu is a secret queen of the world. and they didn't undo few hours/a day with d-mails they sent mails to the past the longest one back was to rukako's mom's pager (16 years). Youre thinking of time-leap which is only up to 48 hours which okabe first used for only a couple of hours and then 48 hours to when the time-leap machine wasnt even finished yet. anyways yea there's alot of missing information that the show is asking us to fill in but you cant fight it so.. Oh right, that was the time leap... gah, screwing up my information. XS Thanks for the correction. I'm just hoping the last 2 episodes make sense of all of it... not like Chaos;Head's or Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica's completely cryptic endings. XS |
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| i just want a good ending that'll let me have peace |
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shiromegami said: i just want a good ending that'll let me have peace Well, I'm thinking there's going to be a new divergence 1% somehow, where neither events happen or is pushed back, and kurisu is alive. |
| "Justice Never Dies!" - Kenji Endou, 20th century Boys |
darkerealm said: When I heard the phrase about the theory of relativity and the romance, it reminded me of the comics "Fly me to the moon!" by Keiko Takemiya known as the author of "Toward the Terra". You can read a variation of the line in episode 38 "E=MC^2".I didn't know the theory of relativity could be applied in describing kiss scenes. It should be written as "E=mc^2" in my opinion. http://myanimelist.net/manga/9378/Fly_Me_to_the_Moon! http://myanimelist.net/manga/1207/Terra_e... |
kuroneko99Sep 4, 2011 1:03 AM
MorningGlory said: basically I think SERN itself don't know Okabe built a time machine. Only the person that involve in maintaining the special inscription of IBM data knows that.Even Rounder don't know about the time machine, the only person that knows is FB and Moeka =P what sort of stupid enemy of SERN would give Okabe warning message telling him not to further their research lol. Must be either Moeka or FB sent the message. In the Alpha Worldline, SERN is fated to notice the D-mail in order to establish the inevitable dystopia. According to the official explanation and my understanding, all things will go by the outcomes predetermined by the Attractor Field, and no normal means can change it. What effects the 1st D-mail has is predetermined in this worldline, but the mere "existence" of the D-mail is the catalyst. It MUST exist in order for causality to flow. By erasing its existence, a paradox is created. So the world corrects itself by shifting into a different Attractor Field. The "heretic" property of D-mail makes all of these comes true. Just my two cents. And the threat mails were sent by Moeka ordered by Tennouji. Tennouji was somehow attached to Okabe's group, and he knew how far SERN can go if the crews don't stop their experiments. I have no idea how much feeling Tennouji had towards Okabe' group in the anime tho, becuase he's now officially an ass. |
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| well, I trying to find a more logical explanation T.T |
Dusk252 said: I get it somewhat better now (thanks for sorting that out), but I still find it a hard to swallow explanation. Though if that's canon, I have no choice but to accept it. Not everything can be explained. There's still the "1% fantasy" in Steins;Gate. That's why it's a sci-fi. =) |
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Dusk252 said: ...Actually I am trying to link the similarity of the rounder and SERNIt' not like FB was acting on is own Rounder take order from SERN and SERN take order from the evidence of first D-mail.A detective can't solve mystery without an evidence .... Okay, This explanation even worst lol ya, the official explanation is hard to swallow ... Kansokusha said: Nae?...but Mr.brown is a good father, you can't blame him. =(I have no idea how much feeling Tennouji had towards Okabe' group in the anime tho, because he's now officially an ass. |
MorningGlorySep 4, 2011 1:57 AM
MorningGlory said: Kansokusha said: Nae?...but Mr.brown is a good father, you can't blame him. =(I have no idea how much feeling Tennouji had towards Okabe' group in the anime tho, because he's now officially an ass. Ya, a father loves only his own daughter and kills Moeka without any hesitation vs a guy willing to sacrifice himself for Nae and Moeka, and warns Okabe before it's too late(his own POV)... that sounds like a "good" guy. |
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Kansokusha said: Ya, a father loves only his own daughter and kills Moeka without any hesitation vs a guy willing to sacrifice himself for Nae and Moeka, and warns Okabe before it's too late(his own POV)... that sounds like a "good" guy. The moment Mr.brown left his house, it doesn't really matter anymore =P He is a good dad, not a good guy.That's why he clean up the mess he did so that her daughter can live a happier live. |
MorningGlory said: The moment Mr.brown left his house, it doesn't really matter anymore =P He is a good dad, not a good guy.That's why he clean up the mess he did so that her daughter can live a happier live. Nae won't be able to have a happy life in both the VN and the anime anyway. |
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MorningGlory said: well, I trying to find a more logical explanation T.T probability theory. Okabes dmail causes an avalanche effect in time , leading to events and events and events that all coincidentally lead to events leading to both CERN dystopia and Mayushi's death. However that DMAIL itself is only interacting with ANOTHER avalanche effect which causes Kurisu to die and ww3 to happen. Okabe's dmail just creates another avalanche that redirects the course of previously formed probabilities caused by unknown factors. You know what a butterfly effect is. Well. Okabe's "butterfly" is just not the first. There is another one leaping around, to make it simple. |
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| A good episode, I am glad kurisu chose to save mayuri so as not void all the things she and okabe had attempted and all the trials they suffered. I am more in love with her character. My score went up for the anime after this episode. |
We are the United. Even in defeat we stand united. |
| Damn, just look at that libido that Okabe exuded. I feel like throwing a troll face on Christina though... |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| Well, I pretty much just Holy Shitted my way through this episode. |
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| Ahahaha! In your faces! People-that-dont-watch-the-roll-credits! You may never know what you'll miss. Dramatic content until the end, where you're unexpectedly hit by the cliffhanger! As for the episode in itself, I loved the kissing <3 |
| Was all like, "DAWWWW AWWWWWWWW" throughout the whole ep Then WWIII comes up Literally LOL'D & ROFL'D HAAAAARD. Woke my parents up. |
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Genix said: I can't blame anyone that didn't watch the credits. I mean, up until now there wasn't even a preview after the credits let alone any actual scenes. But I think the dramatic silence during the credits should have clued people in that something was wrong.Ahahaha! In your faces! People-that-dont-watch-the-roll-credits! You may never know what you'll miss. Dramatic content until the end, where you're unexpectedly hit by the cliffhanger! As for the episode in itself, I loved the kissing <3 |
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Leon-Gun said: I can't blame anyone that didn't watch the credits. I mean, up until now there wasn't even a preview after the credits let alone any actual scenes. But I think the dramatic silence during the credits should have clued people in that something was wrong. It's hard to miss when the credit song suddenly changed to the creepy Fake Verthandi and decended into Gate of Steiner. Something must be wrong. |
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| My progression through this episode: More emo Okabe.......SNORE! Oh wait.....Kurisu character developement! No wait, don't leave!! HOLY SHIT WORLD WAR III!!??!??!???  |
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