jkun said: men from the 90's  men from the 00's onwards  please Japan, make more MEN and stop creating GIRLY characters that are wimps... Harima Kenji is the essence of a REAL MAN then. I agree. |
| Moe sells, that's all they want, but I like the classic arts/drawing better, those like inuyasha or ranma 1/2 By the way, does the art of Cross Game considered old? Or is it modern-ish? |
| Honobono Log - best slice of life short -------------------------------------------- most kawaii loli overlord ---------------------------- Donquixote Doflamingo AMV - Control |
9988 said: @ ronri @ jal90 Thanks for the answer jal90, so the data show where you have given higher scores then. Guess I am too used to divide anime in eras. Respected your opinions, @ ronri well, the issue is not exclusively the dominance, if the dominance was good in my eyes I would more than happy as current fans are, problem is in my eyes current trends are a totally inferior in many aspects, in order of importance for me: story | characters | visual style so evidently I am not happy at the utter doiminace of those elements in many a majority of series, if you look even if they dont are exclusively moe/fanservice series many still have elements in some degree to appeal to the disc buyeres, so for me a balance is broken there and too much of anythign si bad. I feel like going to the only restaurant in town and most dishes as salty because today patrons like salty food and want more ad more and more and more than more food needs to have a leve of salt to appeal to them, now it cant be helped as that is what the majority of people wants, but till know in anime in my eyes there used to be a balance thats there is not anymore, NOTE: I added extra bits to my previous post for better clarification. While I don't feel as bitter about it as you do (at least based on how you sound like from the way you're describing it), but I agree with this to a certain degree. Now to be perfectly fair, I'd attribute this "issue" more with the general mass-production and expansion of the anime industry. As such, it's no surprise why such shows can come across as being generic. Hence why I wouldn't necessarily declare this as something that's necessarily a negative though, rather it's only an issue if you're truly bothered from feeling over-saturated by such shows. I choose to pick what I deem as potentially interesting, and an art style (be it moe or even fanservicey) isn't enough to deter me from trying it out. For example, the Monogatari franchise has both elements, but are they terrible shows? I wouldn't say so. In fact, I find that they pull them off with a certain flair and tongue-in-cheek style that puts them on a level above the norm. |
eminagnam said: 9988 said: In my case as much as I love anime 60-90s over 2000s, The problem is it seems most of 60-80s anime are unfamiliar to the majority of this forum. eminagnam said: 9988 said: In my case as much as I love anime 60-90s over 2000s, The problem is it seems most of 60-80s anime are unfamiliar to the majority of this forum. Agreed, which is why I was looking for the answer of someone familiar with older and newer anime as well, one cannot like and prefer what one doe snot know or is familiar with. |
| Women will like any that's mainstream and cool. Including guys. Hence why bimbos date douchebag mainstreamers. |
9988Jan 17, 2013 5:32 AM
rederoin said: Or better put, its cherry picking. Cherry picking sure is fun. The guy who made that image obviously never watched Sailor Moon. |
| This community is terrible. |
| There's so many images in there that I forgot which position were you trying to defend, 9988. By the way, I have that Mima as an avatar in another forum. |
jal90 said: There's so many images in there that I forgot which position were you trying to defend, 9988. Yeah I'm a bit lost on that one. Not gonna lie, I actually think the vast majority of the pics look great in their own right. |
Natsu12345 said: Moe sells, that's all they want, but I like the classic arts/drawing better, those like inuyasha or ranma 1/2 By the way, does the art of Cross Game considered old? Or is it modern-ish? It isl older style revamped and updated with modern technology. It was good result of keeping the feeling of Adachi sensei distinctive and highly styled art style and modernized correctly. Something that did not happen quite well with Leiji Matsumoto art style and recent Ozuma, it ended up being kind of bland. Lupin 2012, is another good example of being true to the classic style but with modern look, keeping the spirit intact. Of course Ghibli productions are the best example of combination of both worlds. ronri said: jal90 said: There's so many images in there that I forgot which position were you trying to defend, 9988. Yeah I'm a bit lost on that one. Not gonna lie, I actually think the vast majority of the pics look great in their own right. There are just some comparison I found, merely posting not to back up any argument in specific. Just comparison and nostalgia´s sake. I love the OLD so much : Kabocha wien L-Shusuke - Maison Ikkoku but so I loved Lovely complex and Honey and clover, mind you, moe an fanservice were still not dominant with its elemets. So yes, there good series, art styles, etc, in the 2000s era as well.  |
9988Jan 17, 2013 5:27 AM
jkun said: I hope you don't honestly believe this.what do you mean "uber macho" ? you mean ... men? males are not supposed to look like they wear makeup and have tears in their eyes when things get tough |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
Carnival_Corpse said: Post-Josh said: jkun said: I hope you don't honestly believe this.what do you mean "uber macho" ? you mean ... men? males are not supposed to look like they wear makeup and have tears in their eyes when things get tough this is turning into a gender stereotype discussion For manliness, its extinct in this era pretty much but theres still JOJO:  |
Post-Josh said: jkun said: what do you mean "uber macho" ? you mean ... men? males are not supposed to look like they wear makeup and have tears in their eyes when things get tough I hope you don't honestly believe this. yes.. because why would "men" cry when being yelled at? it would just ruin their makeup! |
jkun said: Post-Josh said: jkun said: what do you mean "uber macho" ? you mean ... men? males are not supposed to look like they wear makeup and have tears in their eyes when things get tough I hope you don't honestly believe this. yes.. because why would "men" cry when being yelled at? it would just ruin their makeup! A trick question, huh? I'll take the first guess ..... because we're human and have different personalities? |
 |
Well as a good example, Fate/Zero certainly has its decent share of male characters (both manly, handsome, moe, normal, and downright grotesque):             |
ronriJan 17, 2013 5:55 AM
yhunata said: A trick question, huh? I'll take the first guess ..... because we're human and have different personalities? there is nothing wrong with a man crying, however, it gets a bit pathetic when the main character (who is supposed to save the day) cries 5-10 times every episode |
jkun said: yhunata said: A trick question, huh? I'll take the first guess ..... because we're human and have different personalities? there is nothing wrong with a man crying, however, it gets a bit pathetic when the main character (who is supposed to save the day) cries 5-10 times every episode When the fuck did that happen? |
|
yhunata said: jkun said: yhunata said: A trick question, huh? I'll take the first guess ..... because we're human and have different personalities? there is nothing wrong with a man crying, however, it gets a bit pathetic when the main character (who is supposed to save the day) cries 5-10 times every episode When the fuck did that happen? Guilty Crown? But then again, Shu was based on Shinji anyway, so it was practically gonna be a given. Either way, topic is getting derailed. |
ronri said: yhunata said: jkun said: yhunata said: A trick question, huh? I'll take the first guess ..... because we're human and have different personalities? there is nothing wrong with a man crying, however, it gets a bit pathetic when the main character (who is supposed to save the day) cries 5-10 times every episode When the fuck did that happen? Guilty Crown? But then again, Shu was based on Shinji anyway, so it was practically gonna be a given. Either way, topic is getting derailed. From what I can remember, And you just figured out that this thread is getting derailed? |
|
jkun said: yhunata said: A trick question, huh? I'll take the first guess ..... because we're human and have different personalities? there is nothing wrong with a man crying, however, it gets a bit pathetic when the main character (who is supposed to save the day) cries 5-10 times every episode I got it, your man is Karasuma. I should really stop giving School Rumble references to every jkun post, damn it. |
jal90Jan 17, 2013 6:06 AM
yhunata said: From what I can remember, And you just figured out that this thread is getting derailed? Oh no, I'm not denying the given reasons (as bad or as good as they could be), just pitching in the answer since it was the original example that was given. Also of course I figured it was getting derailed, that was just my declaration to steer clear of it. :P That said, I feel that I've said what I've needed to say in this thread so I've nothing else to add. |
ronri said: Oh no, I'm not denying the given reasons (as bad or as good as they could be), just pitching in the answer since it was the original example that was given. Well, wimp or no wimp, Shu isn't really the best example for a MC that cries 5-10 times each episode. How he made that connection, I don't really know. |
|
srsly guise? wat da fuk happnd? yhunata said: I'm watching the show at the moment (Mostly so I can see Shu turn into Hitler) and I call bullshit on this too. I don't think I've seen him cry onceronri said: Oh no, I'm not denying the given reasons (as bad or as good as they could be), just pitching in the answer since it was the original example that was given. Well, wimp or no wimp, Shu isn't really the best example for a MC that cries 5-10 times each episode. How he made that connection, I don't really know. |
SeibaaHomuJan 17, 2013 6:21 AM
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SquadmemberRitsu said: srsly guise? wat da fuk happnd? the difference between now and then is that now 90% of new anime looks like clannad so much beta in this thread its unbelievable |
jkun said: the difference between now and then is that now 90% of new anime looks like clannad so much beta in this thread its unbelievable The point is showing the sacred power of cherry picking, but oh well. |
jal90 said: The point is showing the sacred power of cherry picking. This. I think the art quality has gone up. Since when is it not evident within a half second that an anime was made in the '90s? |
katsucats said: eminagnam said: But there's generic art in every decade. I don't have numbers or anything, since it is pretty much infeasible for a single person to do a study across any large amount of anime, but while subject matter have noticeably shifted in the past 10-15 years, I have not noticed the same for character design and art consistency. Back then there were Oh My Goddess and Tenchi Muyo's that are today's Sword Art Online. For any standout example that you could point to in any particular time period, there are probably 3 mediocre ones that were forgotten in the annuls of time.Yeah, that's a pity. In the past, creators each had different character design. But today not only character design but storylines are similar to one another in most cases. Thus confusing and unmemorable. For example, 12 Japanese TV anime (new series) were aired in 1970 (not 70s but just one year of 1970). None of them looked alike in terms of character/facial design, and most of them looked very different from one another. 26 new series were aired in 1980. None of them looked alike in terms of character/facial design, and most of them looked very different from one another. 28 new series were aired in 1990. None of them looked alike in terms of character/facial design, and most of them looked very different from one another. |
| The main reason everything looks the same today is due to artists using their feet instead of their hands. |
 |
jkun said: the difference between now and then is that now 90% of new anime looks like clannad so much beta in this thread its unbelievable IF ONLY 90% OF NEW ANIME ACTUALLY LOOK AS GOOD AS CLANNAD! |
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Carnival_Corpse said: Don't worry, I won't go down that road. I just want to make sure that jkun knows that "manliness", or "manhood", or whatever, isn't a real thing. It's just a convenient little fantasy. Child's play, even. Post-Josh said: this is turning into a gender stereotype discussionjkun said: I hope you don't honestly believe this.what do you mean "uber macho" ? you mean ... men? males are not supposed to look like they wear makeup and have tears in their eyes when things get tough |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
DateYutaka said: AirStyles said: jkun said: the difference between now and then is that now 90% of new anime looks like clannad so much beta in this thread its unbelievable IF ONLY 90% OF NEW ANIME ACTUALLY LOOK AS GOOD AS CLANNAD! moe is not the way Who said anything about moe. I'm talking art quality. The background, lighting(ESPECIALLY!), petals, snows etc in Clannad are amazing. EDIT: again... IF ONLY 90% OF NEW ANIME ACTUALLY LOOK AS GOOD AS CLANNAD! |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
jkun said: LOLmen from the 90's men from the 00's onwards please Japan, make more MEN and stop creating GIRLY characters that are wimps... The first guy looks like a complete fag. Like he belongs at some sort of pride event. And they aren't men. They are teenagers. I don't know what delusion you may be under, but teenagers in Japan, for the most part, look like this: And regardless, Shu is in no way a wimpy girly character. |
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Red_Keys said: LOL The first guy looks like a complete fag. Like he belongs at some sort of pride event. And they aren't men. They are teenagers. I don't know what delusion you may be under, but teenagers in Japan, for the most part, look like this: And regardless, Shu is in no way a wimpy girly character. No offense, but calling out a brutish support character (from a fairly popular shonen no less) as a "complete fag" doesn't exactly help your case, especially when your point of comparison is Shu who was SPECIFICALLY written as a socially-awkward protagonist (heck the writers even likened him after Shinji Ikari). |
ronriJan 17, 2013 8:40 AM
ronri said: I haven't seen the show. I'm sure the actual character is in no way an actual fag. But we are going off of visuals here, as that is this thread's topic. And he looks like a flaming homo.No offense, but calling out a brutish support character (from a fairly popular shonen no less) as a "complete fag" doesn't exactly help your case, especially in comparison to Shu who was SPECIFICALLY written as a socially-awkward protagonist. My point was that Shu looks like the type of person he was designed after: a normal teenager. |
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ronri said: Red_Keys said: LOL The first guy looks like a complete fag. Like he belongs at some sort of pride event. And they aren't men. They are teenagers. I don't know what delusion you may be under, but teenagers in Japan, for the most part, look like this: And regardless, Shu is in no way a wimpy girly character. No offense, but calling out a brutish support character (from a fairly popular shonen no less) as a "complete fag" doesn't exactly help your case, especially in comparison to Shu who was SPECIFICALLY written as a socially-awkward protagonist. as i said b4 the ideals on what make a man a man or very different in east and west |
| "If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine" When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one For the Union makes us strong |
| Haha. The guy with orange hair looks like a teenage Canadian baseball player. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
DateYutaka said: AirStyles said: DateYutaka said: AirStyles said: jkun said: the difference between now and then is that now 90% of new anime looks like clannad so much beta in this thread its unbelievable IF ONLY 90% OF NEW ANIME ACTUALLY LOOK AS GOOD AS CLANNAD! moe is not the way Who said anything about moe. I'm talking art quality. The background, lighting(ESPECIALLY!), petals, snows etc in Clannad are amazing. hmm Not every studio has KyoAni's workforce and organization. Movies are still going to look better than TV series though. |
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DateYutaka said: as i said b4 the ideals on what make a man a man or very different in east and west Okay I'm not gonna lie, I don't know how that has anything to do with what I just said. |
DateYutaka said: ronri said: DateYutaka said: as i said b4 the ideals on what make a man a man or very different in east and west Okay I'm not gonna lie, I don't know how that has anything to do with what I just said. it was me agreeing with you Ok thanks for clearing that up. |
| Today's art looks immensely better. In all of the examples you provided, the girls all look like they have the Downs. I'm down for hand drawn classic style, I can enjoy it. But I would never say it looks better, and the girls looked funky as hell back then. |
DateYutaka said: right you not biased with the avaer you have being moe But...they never said they weren't biased. I think everyone's at least a little biased when it comes to art preferences. Personally, I prefer newer art styles. I've noticed a lot of the shows I really enjoy tend to be rich with colour, and older shows usually have less of that because of technological restrictions. I also dislike the pointiness of chins and such that older style tends to have. I fully admit to being biased though, particularly because I started watching anime when I was a bit older. |
| It is literally impossible to be unbiased in this matter. Art style is a personal preference. There are no "facts" when it comes to liking a certain style. It is 100% biased and subjective 100% of the time. |
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| If anything I don't think its just the style that is changing the most. When comparing older anime to modern ones, the new ones seem curvier and squishier, and I mean that in a non-hentai, non-ecchi way. By that I mean, they simply have more texture and giving them a more three dimensional feel, not a more life-like feel, but simply more three dimensional. The quality of the medium itself is always getting better. The only thing that is actually changing for better or worse is the art style itself. For me, its not really a bad thing. Its just different. |
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