| Pretty stupid question here... Let's say there's a scene, in which a person gets shot in the face with a shotgun and their brains splatter all over the wall... That means it will have the 17+ age restriction. Now, let's suppose there are such scenes as a goblin getting slayed with their guts spilling out, a dragon getting decapitated etc. So, basically, a mythical creature dying in a moderately gruesome way. Is what's described in the latter enough of a reason to mark the show as 17+? Because I've seen many isekai shows with scenes that made me go "Yo, bro, that's gross", and yet most of them were PG-13. |
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| I guess it depends how it's depicted. |
DesuMaiden said: Nobody resembles me physically because I don't even physically exist. |
| I stopped trying to understand rating systems a long time ago. The freaking Persona games are rated M over here even though I'd argue they're nowhere near rated M material. Movies can be rated R if they have even one extra "fuck" in them. It's all a mess. |
| The ratings are a lie,tbh when I first got into anime my assumption was that it worked like US cinema,18+ meaning you were in for a gory & violent ride,however R & R+ most times don't matter,they seem to be primarily put when there is either nudity (although not always) or visceral gore (mostly against women & children) but in terms of story much like demographics it's all over the place,no idea how Japan comes up with their rankings |
| Can I Still Go To Heaven If I Kill Myself? |
| Laws and rating systems for children and teens are completely a national vehicle, to start with. PG-17 doesn't even exist in Japan or my native Germany. In the USA the MPAA system is used, and with MAL being a US company, they use it here as well. The label has no legal meaning outside the USA, as no two national rating systems apply the same criteria. They do not even use the same age steps. A rough list of MPAA's criteria is e.g. here: https://rating-system.fandom.com/wiki/Motion_Picture_Association To me, the relevant rating systems are: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Board_of_Film_Classification (UK, age steps 0 / 8 / 12 / 15 / 18 / 18 with restricted distribution) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiwillige_Selbstkontrolle_der_Filmwirtschaft (DE, age steps 0 / 6 / 12 / 16 / 18) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_Picture_Association_film_rating_system (USA, age steps 0, 10, 13, 17, 18) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eirin (JP, age steps 0, 12, 15, 18) What also differs are the criteria for a rating. In Germany female nipples, and in some context frontal male nudity with penis, do not automatically result in an R+ or Rx rating. On the other hand, we are more sensitive to violence here and so what passes as PG-13 in the US may well be restricted higher here. Also, FSK usually is far more lenient to male homosexual sex scenes than MPA. The fact that Japan produces mainly for their domestic market and the rather big mismatch between EIRIN and MPA age steps often lead to tough calls. 15 is just two years from BOTH 13 and 17, and the US rating agency each time must rate too high or too low - compared to the intention of the producers. With international productions for streamers like Netflix, often the MPA is used, because the customer is always right. Which I personally consider a bad thing, because the MPA system is certainly not the strongest of the bunch. |
inimJan 5, 6:14 PM
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Reply to inim
Laws and rating systems for children and teens are completely a national vehicle, to start with. PG-17 doesn't even exist in Japan or my native Germany. In the USA the MPAA system is used, and with MAL being a US company, they use it here as well. The label has no legal meaning outside the USA, as no two national rating systems apply the same criteria. They do not even use the same age steps. A rough list of MPAA's criteria is e.g. here: https://rating-system.fandom.com/wiki/Motion_Picture_Association
To me, the relevant rating systems are:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Board_of_Film_Classification (UK, age steps 0 / 8 / 12 / 15 / 18 / 18 with restricted distribution)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiwillige_Selbstkontrolle_der_Filmwirtschaft (DE, age steps 0 / 6 / 12 / 16 / 18)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_Picture_Association_film_rating_system (USA, age steps 0, 10, 13, 17, 18)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eirin (JP, age steps 0, 12, 15, 18)
What also differs are the criteria for a rating. In Germany female nipples, and in some context frontal male nudity with penis, do not automatically result in an R+ or Rx rating. On the other hand, we are more sensitive to violence here and so what passes as PG-13 in the US may well be restricted higher here. Also, FSK usually is far more lenient to male homosexual sex scenes than MPA.
The fact that Japan produces mainly for their domestic market and the rather big mismatch between EIRIN and MPA age steps often lead to tough calls. 15 is just two years from BOTH 13 and 17, and the US rating agency each time must rate too high or too low - compared to the intention of the producers. With international productions for streamers like Netflix, often the MPA is used, because the customer is always right. Which I personally consider a bad thing, because the MPA system is certainly not the strongest of the bunch.
To me, the relevant rating systems are:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Board_of_Film_Classification (UK, age steps 0 / 8 / 12 / 15 / 18 / 18 with restricted distribution)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiwillige_Selbstkontrolle_der_Filmwirtschaft (DE, age steps 0 / 6 / 12 / 16 / 18)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_Picture_Association_film_rating_system (USA, age steps 0, 10, 13, 17, 18)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eirin (JP, age steps 0, 12, 15, 18)
What also differs are the criteria for a rating. In Germany female nipples, and in some context frontal male nudity with penis, do not automatically result in an R+ or Rx rating. On the other hand, we are more sensitive to violence here and so what passes as PG-13 in the US may well be restricted higher here. Also, FSK usually is far more lenient to male homosexual sex scenes than MPA.
The fact that Japan produces mainly for their domestic market and the rather big mismatch between EIRIN and MPA age steps often lead to tough calls. 15 is just two years from BOTH 13 and 17, and the US rating agency each time must rate too high or too low - compared to the intention of the producers. With international productions for streamers like Netflix, often the MPA is used, because the customer is always right. Which I personally consider a bad thing, because the MPA system is certainly not the strongest of the bunch.
| @inim, thanks for the explanation. Yeah, that difference between the MPA and the Eirin systems (13 and 17 vs 12 and 15) is probably the problem in my case. |
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Reply to FanofAction
I stopped trying to understand rating systems a long time ago. The freaking Persona games are rated M over here even though I'd argue they're nowhere near rated M material. Movies can be rated R if they have even one extra "fuck" in them. It's all a mess.
FanofAction said: Movies can be rated R if they have even one extra "fuck" in them Sometimes you even get this kind of shit: |
|
| I would say it's all depended on the amount and detail of blood and gore, rather than the source of it. |
 |
| Age restrictions are even funnier when it comes to censoring "controversial" parts. You can read or watch something dedicated to adults, have a character covered in blood in it who is naked, with ravaged part of their body, delusional stare, holding a sharp weapon used to self-mutilation, but hey, nipples mustn't be visible and all reproductive organs need to be blurred!! |
Reply to RudeRedis
FanofAction said:
Movies can be rated R if they have even one extra "fuck" in them
Movies can be rated R if they have even one extra "fuck" in them
Sometimes you even get this kind of shit:
| @RudeRedis That's hilariously dumb and I'm not surprised. Probably a case of taking "think of the children" too far. I doubt most children would be into listening to an entirely instrumental album, and most children have probably seen or heard worse words. |
| Age rating are all nonsense. The people deciding the ratings aren't child psychologists. Also, as far as I know Japan doesn't even have ratings for TV shows, only for movies. |
| Well I don't care about age restrictions because I am an adult...and I can watch whatever I like. |
| I would think anything gory would warrant a 17+ rating. Especially if we're talking about guts spilling out and decapitation. |
| Japan doesn't have a TV show age rating system only a system for rating movies shown in cinemas. The US system is completely arbitrary and always changing. |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
RudeRedis said: I've seen many isekai shows with scenes that made me go "Yo, bro, that's gross", and yet most of them were PG-13. Who gave those shows those ratings? |
| その目だれの目？ |
Reply to Adnash
Age restrictions are even funnier when it comes to censoring "controversial" parts. You can read or watch something dedicated to adults, have a character covered in blood in it who is naked, with ravaged part of their body, delusional stare, holding a sharp weapon used to self-mutilation, but hey, nipples mustn't be visible and all reproductive organs need to be blurred!!
| @Adnash According to a manga I read, this is done to sell "de-censor glasses." And if enough of the image is censored, kids can even watch along with their parents! https://myanimelist.net/manga/12549/Fourteen |
| その目だれの目？ |
| The latter is classified as "fantasy violence", hence not as "serious". |
Reply to Lucifrost
RudeRedis said:
I've seen many isekai shows with scenes that made me go "Yo, bro, that's gross", and yet most of them were PG-13.
I've seen many isekai shows with scenes that made me go "Yo, bro, that's gross", and yet most of them were PG-13.
Who gave those shows those ratings?
| @Lucifrost It probably slightly differs from country to country, but typically there is a law which establishes a rating agency. It's usually up to the media distributors to register each product with them. In Germany, products not rated by that agency (FSK) are by default FSK-18, i.e. can not be advertised or sold to persons below 18. So it's commerical self-interest driving the voluntary rating. FSK translates to "Voluntary Self Control Agency" (of the media distribution industry). They also cover video games, print, and TV products. Also typically the large media distribution corporations pay for staff and offices of the agency for the same reason. At least in Germany, the subsidarity principle kicks in here. If a legal job (rating to mark for 'can be sold to minors') is voluntarily, professionally and credibly administered, the government will not create their own agency. That way also our doctors, lawyers, etc. self-organize in "chambers" (thik: US bar organization). MPA is modeled along this concept as well, AFAIK. It's voluntary, it's approval is legally binding, and the government stays out of it because they do a good job. |
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RudeRedis said: Let's say there's a scene, in which a person gets shot in the face with a shotgun and their brains splatter all over the wall... That means it will have the 17+ age restriction. My dad's friend has a child that desperately wanted to watch Squid Game because of how gory it is, he was 7 or 8 at the time, so I think 7+ is fair. RudeRedis said: goblin getting slayed with their guts spilling out Depends on if it's animated or not, because Oh my GEAWD!!!! ELFEN LIED IS LIKE, SO GORY AND GROSS!!!!11!! EUGHHHHGHG!!!! RudeRedis said: a dragon getting decapitated Only in Mexico RudeRedis said: Is what's described in the latter enough of a reason to mark the show as 17+? No |
  [img align=center]  [img align=center] |
Lucifrost said: RudeRedis said: I've seen many isekai shows with scenes that made me go "Yo, bro, that's gross", and yet most of them were PG-13. Who gave those shows those ratings? MAL itself, of course. From what I’ve heard, MAL has its own age rating system, which is similar to the MPA one (US). |
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RudeRedis said: Pretty stupid question here... Let's say there's a scene, in which a person gets shot in the face with a shotgun and their brains splatter all over the wall... That means it will have the 17+ age restriction. Now, let's suppose there are such scenes as a goblin getting slayed with their guts spilling out, a dragon getting decapitated etc. So, basically, a mythical creature dying in a moderately gruesome way. Is what's described in the latter enough of a reason to mark the show as 17+? Because I've seen many isekai shows with scenes that made me go "Yo, bro, that's gross", and yet most of them were PG-13. Age ratings are completely arbitrary and often change over time. It all depends on who is in charge of slapping a title with the arbitrary rating at the time. Also as noted they are only suggested and not something that is legally enforced. A film that was rated-R back in the 70s gets slapped with a PG-13 rating in the 80s in it's 1st home release, in the 90s the film is re-released on VHS and is "not rated", in the 2000s the film is again re-released on DVD then slapped with an R-17+, etc... |
ColourWheelJan 6, 1:15 AM
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| I'm not aware of any age classification board which actually works based on evidence of the actual effect things have on child development, they all (I'm not sure how willingly) play to the weird prejudices of their society. |
| I don't know how it works. Some anime like Demon slayer and Jjk are popular among every age group and the mugen train movie got a pg 13 rating in Japan and most countries but it was R rated in America. |
If you enjoyed the time you wasted, then its not a waste of time.  |
Reply to ColourWheel
RudeRedis said:
Pretty stupid question here...
Let's say there's a scene, in which a person gets shot in the face with a shotgun and their brains splatter all over the wall... That means it will have the 17+ age restriction.
Now, let's suppose there are such scenes as a goblin getting slayed with their guts spilling out, a dragon getting decapitated etc. So, basically, a mythical creature dying in a moderately gruesome way.
Is what's described in the latter enough of a reason to mark the show as 17+? Because I've seen many isekai shows with scenes that made me go "Yo, bro, that's gross", and yet most of them were PG-13.
Pretty stupid question here...
Let's say there's a scene, in which a person gets shot in the face with a shotgun and their brains splatter all over the wall... That means it will have the 17+ age restriction.
Now, let's suppose there are such scenes as a goblin getting slayed with their guts spilling out, a dragon getting decapitated etc. So, basically, a mythical creature dying in a moderately gruesome way.
Is what's described in the latter enough of a reason to mark the show as 17+? Because I've seen many isekai shows with scenes that made me go "Yo, bro, that's gross", and yet most of them were PG-13.
Age ratings are completely arbitrary and often change over time. It all depends on who is in charge of slapping a title with the arbitrary rating at the time. Also as noted they are only suggested and not something that is legally enforced.
A film that was rated-R back in the 70s gets slapped with a PG-13 rating in the 80s in it's 1st home release, in the 90s the film is re-released on VHS and is "not rated", in the 2000s the film is again re-released on DVD then slapped with an R-17+, etc...
| I keep using Germany as an example, because in this case I actually know what I am talking about. Other countries may differ, but I do not expect them to differ much. ColourWheel said: The ratings are sometimes disputed, but never 'completely arbitrary'. If only because distributors can appeal to them in court. Just like with 'I know pornography when I see it", it's imposible to create objective rules for media rating. However, all boards have written classification criteria. Each piece of medium is viewed by multiple reviewers. What probably is true that those ratings are conservative. There by far are more adults than children and teens, so the worst result is that a few people have to wait a few more years for access. Keep in mind that rating agencies do not BAN sales of a media product, they only add limitations.Age ratings are completely arbitrary and often change over time. It all depends on who is in charge of slapping a title with the arbitrary rating at the time. ColourWheel said: This is completely wrong. The approach is to have "unrated" media by default placed in the most restrictive class, which means you are not allowed to advertise for them or to make them accessible in places accessible to minors. Which includes the internet, TV, and stores including e.g. Amazon. They are all still accessible in stores which have active age verification, either online or physically. In the VHS rental business, those were secluded areas, in the internet it's special shops for which you need to e.g. verify with your ID or credit card (which children do not have access to legally). If parents help their children to circumvent those by e.g. allowing them to use their credit card or account, that is probably not prosecuted. We are not a Gestapo country, and parents can override decisions made for the general public.Also as noted they are only suggested and not something that is legally enforced. So the rating is legally binding. If you sell unrated media to minors and get caught, you as a trader commit a criminal offfense. How strictly that is proseuted is another issue. ColourWheel said: Also natural. Society has an ever changing set of moral values, and what was offensive to your parents is normal to your children. Who themselves grow up and as adults change society. Else we would still be stuck in archaic value systems, even if one can argue that in the deep south of the USA and Saudi-Arabia this is still the case. But e.g. until the late 1970s, male homosexal relations were criminal offenses in many countries and today we have the CSD. Things change, and with a small delay media rating follows. E.g. in Germany, each rating is attached a life time after which it expires. It also can be re-submitted for a new rating if the distributor wants.A film that was rated-R back in the 70s gets slapped with a PG-13 rating in the 80s in it's 1st home release, in the 90s the film is re-released on VHS and is "not rated", in the 2000s the film is again re-released on DVD then slapped with an R-17+, etc... tl;dr: The whole dicussion is that of teenagers. All adults have unrestricted access to all legal media. Bans for adults require a criminal offense and are no longer done by rating boards but actual courts. In Germany, a handful of media are affected per year by that, and i swear you never heard of the titles. The 1000s of FSK-18 publications are readily accessible to the adults they were created for. A prominent example of media still banned for adults (since 1949 when the allies placed them) is a list of 30-40 nazi propaganda movies like Jud Suess. |
inimJan 6, 10:37 AM
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| mal has its own age rating system and mal is inconsistent with their rules anyway |
inim said: This is completely wrong. The approach is to have "unrated" media placed in the most restrictive class, which means you are not allowed to advertise for them or to make them accessible in places accessible to minors. Which includes the internet, TV, and stores including e.g. Amazon. They are all still accessible in stores which have active age verification, either online or physicaly. Do you have any idea how many unrated or even R+17 titles are even in the Netflix database or seen any streaming platform that caters to Anime where there is plenty of Anime being offered beyond PG-13? Even MAL has ads on occasion advertising stuff that is unrated or even R+17 on their front site page. Never once have I ever been asked to age verify anytime I have logged into ebay or even Amazon. Even when I was a young teen in the 90s I would go to Block Buster video and always rent VHS that was not rated or Rated-R when I was only 15 years old. The key phase I mentioned in my original post in this thread is "not something that is legally enforced." I don't remember the last time some parent was put in handcuff simply because they were caught taking a kid who was 16 to an Rated-R movie. Or some age rating Gustafo hanging around a place that sells home videos waiting around to catch someone selling a film that is R+17 to a teen when they are 16 years old. I never even seen anyone at a video game store ask to see some kids ID to buy a video game with a Mature rating either (other than GTA games). If anything it's up to the establishment how they choose to handle selling their products. Where even when I worked part time at an EB games for a few weeks in the summer in the early 2000s when I was still in college the only game they asked me to check for ID was GTA Vice City at the time.  inim said: Also natural. Society has an ever changing set of moral values, and what was offensive to your parents is normal to their children. Who themselves grow up and as adults change society. Else we would still be stuck in archaic value systems, even if one can argue that in the deep south of the USA and Saudi-Arabia this is still the case. But e.g. until the late 1970s, male homosexal relations were criminal offenses in many countries and today we have the CSD. Things change, and with a small delay media rating follows. This is exactly why age rating systems are completely arbitrary because they keep changing, doesn't matter what the reason is for. |
ColourWheelJan 6, 10:49 AM
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Reply to ColourWheel
inim said:
This is completely wrong. The approach is to have "unrated" media placed in the most restrictive class, which means you are not allowed to advertise for them or to make them accessible in places accessible to minors. Which includes the internet, TV, and stores including e.g. Amazon. They are all still accessible in stores which have active age verification, either online or physicaly.
This is completely wrong. The approach is to have "unrated" media placed in the most restrictive class, which means you are not allowed to advertise for them or to make them accessible in places accessible to minors. Which includes the internet, TV, and stores including e.g. Amazon. They are all still accessible in stores which have active age verification, either online or physicaly.
Do you have any idea how many unrated or even R+17 titles are even in the Netflix database or seen any streaming platform that caters to Anime where there is plenty of Anime being offered beyond PG-13? Even MAL has ads on occasion advertising stuff that is unrated or even R+17 on their front site page. Never once have I ever been asked to age verify anytime I have logged into ebay or even Amazon.
Even when I was a young teen in the 90s I would go to Block Buster video and always rent VHS that was not rated or Rated-R when I was only 15 years old. The key phase I mentioned in my original post in this thread is "not something that is legally enforced." I don't remember the last time some parent was put in handcuff simply because they were caught taking a kid who was 16 to an Rated-R movie. Or some age rating Gustafo hanging around a place that sells home videos waiting around to catch someone selling a film that is R+17 to a teen when they are 16 years old. I never even seen anyone at a video game store ask to see some kids ID to buy a video game with a Mature rating either (other than GTA games). If anything it's up to the establishment how they choose to handle selling their products. Where even when I worked part time at an EB games for a few weeks in the summer in the early 2000s when I was still in college the only game they asked me to check for ID was GTA Vice City at the time.
inim said:
Also natural. Society has an ever changing set of moral values, and what was offensive to your parents is normal to their children. Who themselves grow up and as adults change society. Else we would still be stuck in archaic value systems, even if one can argue that in the deep south of the USA and Saudi-Arabia this is still the case. But e.g. until the late 1970s, male homosexal relations were criminal offenses in many countries and today we have the CSD. Things change, and with a small delay media rating follows.
Also natural. Society has an ever changing set of moral values, and what was offensive to your parents is normal to their children. Who themselves grow up and as adults change society. Else we would still be stuck in archaic value systems, even if one can argue that in the deep south of the USA and Saudi-Arabia this is still the case. But e.g. until the late 1970s, male homosexal relations were criminal offenses in many countries and today we have the CSD. Things change, and with a small delay media rating follows.
This is exactly why age rating systems are completely arbitrary because they keep changing, doesn't matter what the reason is for.
ColourWheel said: The point you are missing here is that "FSK-18" and "unrated" are not the same. FSK-18 means the medium was submitted and the reviewer placed it in "adults only". Of course you can advertise and distribute such media, they were reviewed. "Unrated" in fact is the MORE restrictive classification.Do you have any idea how many unrated or even R+17 titles are even in the Netflix database How commercial entities like your 90s VHS rental or Netflix enforce that is a different thing. A Netflix contract is made with an adult, and how responsible those adults are is none of Netflix's business. It's literally left at parental discretion. Only in the most severe cases the government gets between parents and their children, else we would end up in a Gestapo/Stasi world. Rating limitations only make sure that you can know, and that a child can not access those media without you knowing it (if you as a parent care). This makes sure that commercial distributors can be criminally prosecuted if they monetarize illegal access. Parents have special rights and responsibility to override this - by design. But yea, the 90s VHS store owner indeed commited a criminal offense and if they were reported, would have faced legal consequences. My underage nephew is a big fan of quite violent first person shooters, and I as his uncle with permission and knowledge of his parents would give him such a video game as a birthday present any time. But only after talking to his mom and dad first. Mission accomplished. Regarding MPA legal binding: That is an US law and my postings are about German law. Your national mileage may vary. Just like in the USA nipples on TV are illegal but Holocaust denial is not. In Germany, the opposite is true. Another example are soft drugs in the Netherlands. They are illegal, but authorities are ordered to tolerate commerical sales under well defined circumstances, e.g. limited access to the stores. Laws are the general case, and authorities are free to increase or decrease prosecution pressure to reach the intended goal. Which in this case is not to ban soft drugs, but to make sure children have no access readily. |
inimJan 6, 11:23 AM
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| If the blood is green/blue then it's 13+ and if it's red it's 17+. That's why they ever make blood green or blue, I think. |
| Different regions have different rating systems...and some countries don't even have one because the gov wants to check things themselves and tell people what can be aired and what cannot be aired or released in the region. Overall they are just guidelines. I see many children here (below 12) went with their family to watch superhero movies that are generally rated 12-15+ over here and I never seen them getting scared or walking out from the cinema. As for creatures and monsters, depending on what way they were slain in the show. If it's very explicit - blood everywhere and having limbs and heads chopped off etc., it might be 17+. If it's partially off-screen, or shown in a more comical way and/or having no blood, more likely it will be 13+. |
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Reply to inim
Laws and rating systems for children and teens are completely a national vehicle, to start with. PG-17 doesn't even exist in Japan or my native Germany. In the USA the MPAA system is used, and with MAL being a US company, they use it here as well. The label has no legal meaning outside the USA, as no two national rating systems apply the same criteria. They do not even use the same age steps. A rough list of MPAA's criteria is e.g. here: https://rating-system.fandom.com/wiki/Motion_Picture_Association
To me, the relevant rating systems are:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Board_of_Film_Classification (UK, age steps 0 / 8 / 12 / 15 / 18 / 18 with restricted distribution)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiwillige_Selbstkontrolle_der_Filmwirtschaft (DE, age steps 0 / 6 / 12 / 16 / 18)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_Picture_Association_film_rating_system (USA, age steps 0, 10, 13, 17, 18)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eirin (JP, age steps 0, 12, 15, 18)
What also differs are the criteria for a rating. In Germany female nipples, and in some context frontal male nudity with penis, do not automatically result in an R+ or Rx rating. On the other hand, we are more sensitive to violence here and so what passes as PG-13 in the US may well be restricted higher here. Also, FSK usually is far more lenient to male homosexual sex scenes than MPA.
The fact that Japan produces mainly for their domestic market and the rather big mismatch between EIRIN and MPA age steps often lead to tough calls. 15 is just two years from BOTH 13 and 17, and the US rating agency each time must rate too high or too low - compared to the intention of the producers. With international productions for streamers like Netflix, often the MPA is used, because the customer is always right. Which I personally consider a bad thing, because the MPA system is certainly not the strongest of the bunch.
To me, the relevant rating systems are:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Board_of_Film_Classification (UK, age steps 0 / 8 / 12 / 15 / 18 / 18 with restricted distribution)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiwillige_Selbstkontrolle_der_Filmwirtschaft (DE, age steps 0 / 6 / 12 / 16 / 18)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_Picture_Association_film_rating_system (USA, age steps 0, 10, 13, 17, 18)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eirin (JP, age steps 0, 12, 15, 18)
What also differs are the criteria for a rating. In Germany female nipples, and in some context frontal male nudity with penis, do not automatically result in an R+ or Rx rating. On the other hand, we are more sensitive to violence here and so what passes as PG-13 in the US may well be restricted higher here. Also, FSK usually is far more lenient to male homosexual sex scenes than MPA.
The fact that Japan produces mainly for their domestic market and the rather big mismatch between EIRIN and MPA age steps often lead to tough calls. 15 is just two years from BOTH 13 and 17, and the US rating agency each time must rate too high or too low - compared to the intention of the producers. With international productions for streamers like Netflix, often the MPA is used, because the customer is always right. Which I personally consider a bad thing, because the MPA system is certainly not the strongest of the bunch.
| @inim In my experience the BBFC has a pretty lenient attitude when it comes to on screen violence, especially once you get to a 15 rating, but gore, explicit sex, drug use, and discriminatory language are more likely to land a work an 18 rating. They also change their ratings around reasonably regularly, my DVD copy of Quadrophenia has an 18 rating on the front but on their website it's been taken down to a 15. (I think the drug use and use of the words "cunt" and the racist term "golliwog" were what got it an 18 in the past) Conversely, when I first saw The Woman in Black the BBFC had (controversially) put a 12 rating on it, but it's since been moved up to a 15. I think the MPAA rating system is genuinely quite bad for art because the existence of the R rating provides a significant incentive to cut films that would be NC-17 down to R to allow them to play to a much wider audience (which implicitly includes a lot of children under 17 because you can't stop parents taking kids to R rated films in the US), in contrast to the UK where 18 rated films are an assumed part of the film landscape. |
| "Electronic aids, particularly domestic computers, will help the inner migration, the opting out of reality. Reality is no longer going to be the stuff out there, but the stuff inside your head. It's going to be commercial and nasty at the same time." - JG Ballard, interview with Heavy Metal Magazine (1982) |
Razecube said: Looks like a typical Chinese slop with annoying appropriation of anime style. Shikikan this, shikikan that... People have Nikke for this already. At least Koreans try to do their best to make their games and tv shows to look fresh despite 'inspiration' from Japanese games and anime when Chinese are just copying in most stupid and boring way and always have nothing to say in their plots - nor in terms of social themes, nor in emotional human connections. play Girls’ Fromtline 2 |
Reply to Prideful_Lion
I would think anything gory would warrant a 17+ rating. Especially if we're talking about guts spilling out and decapitation.
| @Prideful_Lion Mononoke-hime has decapitation, but it's a Ghilbli family movie. I don't think that's a useful way to decide on an age rating. I think the only useful way is to have child psychologists decide. No one else has an idea of whether something is harmful to the development of a child or not. (Something I can tell you, though, is that exposed nipples aren't harmful.) |
| @Razecube Razecube said: GFL is not some half baked garbage It is though, from how it looks to how it sounds, absolute trash. Razecube said: Nikke where the character looks like some ad campaigns from a third party hentai site where their only purpose is to work as clickbait Cool story, but I don't see how forgettable and boring character design from a third-tier CGDCT generated by AI is any better. Razecube said: The lore is just a rip off from GFL and Arknights Doubt it, ugly 3D models with animal tails have nothing to do with Nikke obviously. It's laughable even to claim that Koreans would take something from Chinese copypasta ripped from Japanese games and anime. Both Koerans and Chinese take everything from Japanese games and anime obviously. Razecube said: GFL started the whole post apocalyptic theme in Gacha games Does anyone else know about it or it's just your personal beliefs? Because, you know, post-apocalyptic cyberpunk is nothing new, it didn't start from some Chinese gacha-slop for smartphones for sure. It's not important who was first in gacha when this genre is trash by default. Anime .hack came out much earlier than SAO but didn't popularized isekai genre but then SAO did it despite how whining .hack fans were. |
Reply to Lucifrost
@Adnash
According to a manga I read, this is done to sell "de-censor glasses." And if enough of the image is censored, kids can even watch along with their parents!
https://myanimelist.net/manga/12549/Fourteen
According to a manga I read, this is done to sell "de-censor glasses." And if enough of the image is censored, kids can even watch along with their parents!
https://myanimelist.net/manga/12549/Fourteen
| @Lucifrost Blurred out segments of books and that kind of glasses to see hidden stuff? I thought it was a relic of the past, haha. I mostly saw it long ago in a few books dedicated to young adults. Y'know, like detective ones, with glasses having to be put on to see clues hidden throughout the book. |
| If you don't like it then don't watch it. I don't want or need a system in place to tell me if something may or may not be offensive. Plus I don't want to have to check a box just to watch something. People just need to quit being easily offended. |
The Matrix has you... |
Reply to Adnash
@Lucifrost Blurred out segments of books and that kind of glasses to see hidden stuff? I thought it was a relic of the past, haha. I mostly saw it long ago in a few books dedicated to young adults. Y'know, like detective ones, with glasses having to be put on to see clues hidden throughout the book.
| @Adnash Actually the scene was about watching TV in the future. Kids watch the censored rape while parents wear special glasses for the full effect. A teen mom happens to catch a glimpse of this and says, "I'm glad we don't have TV in our house." This manga's story isn't meant to be realistic. |
LucifrostJan 11, 9:26 AM
| その目だれの目？ |
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