Little Busters!: Refrain Episode 12 Discussion

Vladz0r said:


I know that.
>The one thing, though, is that Riki asks Kyousuke to come up with something fun to do, to which he (Kyousuke) comes up with the baseball team idea.

I should've changed the "he" to Kyousuke to be more clear there.

Ol-Hybrius said:
One episode for Kyousuke is enough in my opinion. JC Staff did this one correctly, but I would have done some things differently. Mainly the flashbacks. Instead of using strange picture cuttings with re-used scenes from last season, I would have just made "normal" scenes with Kyousuke point of view. Showing the comedy parts would have been great also, but it couldn't be done with how JC Staff handled those. Less blood would have make it more realistic also.

koagzero said:

In contrast, I think this episode (Episode 12) would be my fav episode in the season, just if you cut off the part where Rin said "Yosh" and smiled like the sun in front of the camera. It broke the mood completely.

Vladz0r said:
VN Spoiler:

Vladz0r said:
I was satisfied with Kurugaya smuggling Rin <3

Ol-Hybrius said:
One episode for Kyousuke is enough in my opinion. JC Staff did this one correctly, but I would have done some things differently. Mainly the flashbacks. Instead of using strange picture cuttings with re-used scenes from last season, I would have just made "normal" scenes with Kyousuke point of view. Showing the comedy parts would have been great also, but it couldn't be done with how JC Staff handled those. Less blood would have make it more realistic also.

guntrix said:
Am I the only one who thinks that the series is dragging on a bit? I could barely keep focus this episode as I watched the 3000th goodbye parade from the LBs and co.

The plot twists in the middle of this season won't be enough to make up for the 30 - episode build up. As someone who hasn't read the comics, I'm seriously hoping for one last plot twist to make watching this worthwhile...

Not trolling, just stating my opinion.

Vladz0r said:


No, there are other people who were actually able to do the same thing as you:
They watched the show, got through all the character development, comedy, thematic messages, character conflicts and characterization, relationship development, and then claim that nothing actually happened but "buildup to a main plot twist".

Statistically, your kind is in the minority http://puu.sh/5WzVg.png

Well, as to how the series can be "dragging on" when there's a fucking bus about to explode that has been mentioned for at least a few episodes now, internal conflicts between Riki trying to go against Kyousuke's will since he has followed him for 30+ episodes, and farewells left to be had between Rin and the girls.

I'm sorry that the show feels like it's dragging on by not just skipping to the finale, but the characters will keep having internal conflicts and keep being developed as they always have. Although, that doesn't seem to be what you're actually here for, since you seem to value the "plot twists" or something, and not the substance that makes up the story.

Vladz0r said:


Statistically, your kind is in the minority http://puu.sh/5WzVg.png

guntrix said:


This is true but it seems like there's a good amount of people rating this episode 3 and below, unlike the last episode.

Vladz0r said:
I don't really understand how you wouldn't define the bus incident as "drama to shake things up", but oh well.
The entire crisis with Riki trying to keep his friends but having to let go of Kurugaya, being forced into a relationship with Rin only to have to let her go away due to Kyousuke's plan, being put through a time loop with the dissolution of the Little Busters, having to re-recruit each of the Little Busters, and now having to face the reality that's he's woken up to are just some of the events in this season, but I guess they're not "drama" by your definition.

I'm not really sure what you'd consider to be drama.

And Refrain not being a mindblow has somewhat to do with how it was adapted and how obvious the Secret was, but also to do with how you don't really seem to like any of the bonding and friendship that defines the Little Busters series. Did the idea that losing these friends through the bus incident not ever across to you as a dramatic crisis? I guess it's not drama if you can't relate with the characters, but if Riki existed, I don't think he would define all the shit he's gone through as anything but drama that has shaken up his otherwise normal life.

As for whether I'd watch everything leading up to this, well, I read the visual novel and reread parts multiple times, and watched the anime as well. I enjoyed the characters and their drama, because for some reason, my brain interprets the crises each of the Little Busters characters have as "drama" and not just "bonding."

I personally don't think the show quite lived up to the hype because of JC Staff, but it feels like you don't really see any conflict that the show has presented as anything more than sunshine and butterflies.



This episode was pretty slow, but we've reached a sort of discussion of the series as a whole and what the definition of drama is. He said that this show was all friendship bonding and buildup, and I don't really get that.

guntrix said:

this 'substance' you talk about... after about 30 episodes of bonding and buildup, all I want is to see some drama or anything that shakes things up for that matter... If I wanted to see a series about friends bonding, I'd have stuck with 'Non Non Biyori' or 'Ano Natsu de Matteru...'

The bus crash has been illustrated for quite a few episodes now, it's not something groundbreaking to say the least... Yes, the refrain has been interesting for the most part but goddam, 38 episodes in and it's finally getting intense with the bus crash.

guntrix said:

Again, not trying to bash the show. If there were a prize for character development this show would win it no doubt. However, for a show that had a lot of hype and kept viewers intact during season 1 on the basis that the refrain was gonna be one big mind blow, this isn't exactly up there.

LBs isn't a bad show, don't get me wrong. It's definitely above average. However, for all the hype it got, it has definitely been underwhelming (at least for me). Ask yourself, if you could go back and watch all 38 episodes leading up to this, would you?

AcezHarfianz said:
Wow this episode just got straight to the true end :o

hope the Ending is Great

guntrix said:
It seems like there's a healthy amount of people that agree that this show hasn't lived up to its hype though, some more than others (like me).

guntrix said:


This is true but it seems like there's a good amount of people rating this episode 3 and below, unlike the last episode.

MagicFlier said:

I don't think you're a vn reader so... ◉◞౪◟◉
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=709605&show=200#msg27134083

destructo22 said:
Just waiting on the ass pull that will bring everyone back and the Little Busters to live again once more. Can't wait. :D

destructo22 said:
Nope, haven't played it. I just know deep down that the ending to come will be glorious.

Vladz0r said:


This is true. There's no episode in this entire SERIES with as many 1s as this episode, and the hate from VN readers (myself included, I gave it a 1, sup?) with the huge and unexpected changes from the VN resulted in that score.

Luckily, the changes didn't make the episode terrible for anime-only watchers, but I'm sure they'd have felt much more emotion this episode if JC Staff even had the balls that Maeda had (which wasn't much, considering

fauzty said:


I suppose that some hate this episode because this is beyond their imagination. (either in a good way or in a bad way.)

Vladz0r said:


I can't help but feel you're being sarcastic, haha. Anyway, I think it'll be taken more as a copout, rather than a contrived asspull. I don't think asspull is the proper word in this case.

Clannad spoiler, LB VN semispoiler:

guntrix said:


I was thinking the opposite. It fell exactly within the boundaries of the past few episodes. I thought we were done with the goodbyes and were finally moving on with the plot but I guess I was wrong. On the contrary, maybe this Rin development is necessary for the story to end in a certain way. I don't know, I'm an anime - only viewer.

fauzty said:


You said this isn't a bad show. Therefore I think you didn't fall into the category of "people who hate this episode." It seems to me that you didn't like it, and you didn't hate it either.

guntrix said:

While this episode (and the whole series for that matter) are not bad by any means, I fail to see it becoming a memorable series on the levels of Clannad or Angel Beats. Not even close imo.

Vladz0r said:


Well, yeah. Angel Beats' soundtrack, short story, few bits of decent drama, and fluffy animation make it more accessible than the good parts of Refrain that take so long to get to.

Angel Beats doesn't actually pack any memorable story qualities, though, sadly.
If Kyousuke's farewell isn't considered to be as memorable as Hinata jumping in to fulfill Yui's simple wish for a husband, or for a group of guys who have barely known each other in the afterlife to have their farewells in Angel Beats, or for a shoehorned melodramatic sudden romantic departure between Otonashi and Angel Beats while Lia screams sad music in your ears, then it's obviously because of Angel Beats' animation. But then I guess, the animation is part of the show.

Doesn't really matter anyway, since Angel Beats is just a lesser developed version of Little Busters that becomes many people's first show because of its simplicity and accessibility.
Sadly, people don't remember the uniqueness of a story, but they remember shows for their fluffy animation and scenes that stick out regardless of how well they were built up.

If you felt like Angel Beats was memorable and Little Busters wasn't, well, you're still essentially getting Maeda's recycled story ideas and themes from the Little Busters visual novel redelivered in Angel Beats, so it just says that your taste would've naturally aligned with a properly produced Little Busters anime.

Honestly, even lumping Angel Beats into the same tier as Clannad is laughable.

guntrix said:

So if I rate Angel Beats higher it's because I'm falling victim to Maeda's recycled story ideas of a lacklustre show? Could it not be because you and I are different people and therefore have different tastes?

fauzty said:
Refrain yourself from hating J.C.Staff, please. We are all aware of that fact that it is animated by J.C. Staff, from the very beginning. In case you don't know, we all know that fact.

Vladz0r said:


Well, Warner Budgets and the lack of Nagai and Fumihiko are what I actually hate.
Oh, and Tonokawa. He sucks.

Ol-Hybrius said:
Angel Beats! is far superior than Clannad for me, even though it's only 13 episodes. I may be subjective since it's my first anime, but Clannad is the second I watched, so...

I dunno, the only girls I like in Clannad (Tomoyo and Kyou) aren't very developped and I find the AB! cast better. It was funnier for me and the ending made me cry while Clannad only made me sad for Tomoya. Clannad's true end is also worse than AB!'s last seconds in my opinion. The thing that I value friendship story more than family's may have something to do with my judgement as well.

MagicFlier said:

I know nothing about Air and the other small visual novels though.

Vladz0r said:
Not gonna respond to the rest of stuff, because it'll result in a circular discussion, but...



Air is longer than Kanon. It was KyoAni's first Key adaptation and it was too short, hence its weak reception nowadays compared to other Key works.