Caliburn220 said: Insertanamehere said: You mean from Type-Moon? Yeah, but anything in general also works. KnK 5 is a crowning achievement. I consider Tsukihime far side routes to be better myself, but then those will be infinitely harder to adapt than F/SN so, well, probably wouldn't work out. |
Insertanamehere said: Caliburn220 said: Yeah, but anything in general also works. KnK 5 is a crowning achievement. I consider Tsukihime far side routes to be better myself, but then those will be infinitely harder to adapt than F/SN so, well, probably wouldn't work out. Ah, haven't played Tsukihime. I'm kinda turned off by the protagonist supposedly being a rapist(?) |
WrongPriest said: Caliburn220 said: Ah, haven't played Tsukihime. I'm kinda turned off by the protagonist supposedly being a rapist(?) Rule #1 of everything ever: I definitely will, when Ufotable announces an adaptation. But for now it's not a priority because of the thing mentioned about the protagonist. |
Caliburn220 said: Ah, haven't played Tsukihime. I'm kinda turned off by the protagonist supposedly being a rapist(?) If it helps |
Insertanamehere said: Caliburn220 said: Ah, haven't played Tsukihime. I'm kinda turned off by the protagonist supposedly being a rapist(?) If it helps Irony~ :^) |
The sun is a deadly laser |
Dragon_Slayer_X said: So guys can anyone tell me who are the new servants in Fate/Grand Order...... For now: Saber:???? Rider:???? Assassin: Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hide Lancer: Scatath Berserker: Darius III (I think...) Caster: ???? Archer: Arjun (Personal favorite) Besides that anyone else hoping for a Arjun vs Karna showdown in near future? You mean Arjuna, right? Saber:Charlemagne/Atilla the Hun Rider:Can't remember, some Japanese girl Caster: No one knows Berserker is Darius III, yes. |
Insertanamehere said: Dragon_Slayer_X said: So guys can anyone tell me who are the new servants in Fate/Grand Order...... For now: Saber:???? Rider:???? Assassin: Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hide Lancer: Scatath Berserker: Darius III (I think...) Caster: ???? Archer: Arjun (Personal favorite) Besides that anyone else hoping for a Arjun vs Karna showdown in near future? You mean Arjuna, right? Saber:Charlemagne/Atilla the Hun Rider:Can't remember, some Japanese girl Caster: No one knows Berserker is Darius III, yes. Isn't it Caster Cu? |
The sun is a deadly laser |
| Rider might be genderbent Tokugawa Ieyatsu because of the tanuki sheath she's carrying. |
astroprogs said: If HF ended up being a single movie, what would it need to do so it can get a high score from all of you? Not air. |
| OK, so I'm a huge fan of Fate/stay Night; the universe and the original game. Unlimited Blade Works was my favorite route, and I'm fucking anal about adaptations. As a general rule, staying true to the source material is paramount for me. I hate it when movies stray away from the books (unless it's done with class like with Stanley Kubrick, but that's super rare). Similarly, I hate it when anime goes away from its source material. I heavily disliked the original Fullmetal Alchemist cause of its original stuff, I hated Death Note's changes in the anime, et cetera. To be frank, I consider myself to have really high standards with adaptations as a whole. I have almost no problems with the UBW adaptation. Yes, more of Shirou's monologues could be included, but I feel that's moot; I felt that as a whole, those were just prettier exposition, and not ruminations on life like Hachiman in Oregairu. Yes, the first season was slow. But as a whole, I really like it. Hell, I liked some of the changes they made. For example, I thought the addition to Caster's backstory was pretty cool. So, I don't mean to be condescending, nor do I want condescending responses. Those who like the VN and don't like the adaptation on any level, please explain to me why so I can understand you guys. Because I don't, and I want to. |
| I feel like Kerry wouldn't teach him projection because he himself considers it useless, even compared to strengthening. |
Forgetfulness said: Shirou learned how to do projection magic all on his own when he was little..he showed it to kiritsugu and kerry laughed at him and told him it was "charmingly useless"Wait so if hypothetically Kerry didn't teach Shirou projection, then how else would he know it? Also how come Shirou's projection magic happens to be special? Is it just because he puts in more effort and anybody could do it if they went through the same steps? I feel like unless I'm missing something (like he can only do it because of his Origin or smth), then wouldn't other magi have figured something like that out long before him? o_O Shirou's projection is special because his origin is sword. under normal circumstances mages would have something like fire or some other element. rin in particular is a special case because her's is the 5 elements giving her a much wider arsenal of magic at her disposal. so no not really anyone else can reach his level of projection magic...not without killing themselves. usually mages know how to do projection magic but it's all cost and no payoff your just hurting yourself to produce an object that is just gonna break if you try to fight with it. |
Synccc said: Did you forget the part where they removed Caster's real backstory? Isn't she Medea? If so, I know who she is and what is the deal with her without Nasu telling me. |
Synccc said: SNaG21 said: OK, so I'm a huge fan of Fate/stay Night; the universe and the original game. Unlimited Blade Works was my favorite route, and I'm fucking anal about adaptations. As a general rule, staying true to the source material is paramount for me. I hate it when movies stray away from the books (unless it's done with class like with Stanley Kubrick, but that's super rare). Similarly, I hate it when anime goes away from its source material. I heavily disliked the original Fullmetal Alchemist cause of its original stuff, I hated Death Note's changes in the anime, et cetera. To be frank, I consider myself to have really high standards with adaptations as a whole. I have almost no problems with the UBW adaptation. Yes, more of Shirou's monologues could be included, but I feel that's moot; I felt that as a whole, those were just prettier exposition, and not ruminations on life like Hachiman in Oregairu. Yes, the first season was slow. But as a whole, I really like it. Hell, I liked some of the changes they made. For example, I thought the addition to Caster's backstory was pretty cool. So, I don't mean to be condescending, nor do I want condescending responses. Those who like the VN and don't like the adaptation on any level, please explain to me why so I can understand you guys. Because I don't, and I want to. Did you forget the part where they removed Caster's real backstory? And Shirou characterization. And alter/remove Rin and Shirou scenes. Plus a lot of small changes to Shirou stuff that adds up over time. And a lot of explanations were left out in general. And Shirou's answer isn't all that easy to get in the anime. Basically took out the best parts of the route for me and I felt I was left with a hollow experience. |
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| EP 20 is perfection. Who said otherwise is just salty. |
ChickenFry said: EP 20 is perfection. Who said otherwise is just salty. It's ok if you know Shirou's answer. If not gl coming to it easily. |
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nocorras said: ChickenFry said: EP 20 is perfection. Who said otherwise is just salty. It's ok if you know Shirou's answer. If not gl coming to it easily. Since when good = easy? |
nocorras said: ChickenFry said: Since when good = easy? Since when is a lot of anime onlys not getting it = perfection? So since when all VN readers understand Answer perfectly? |
ChickenFry said: nocorras said: Since when is a lot of anime onlys not getting it = perfection? So since when all VN readers understand Answer perfectly? This week’s episode, aptly titled, ‘Answer’, continues the trend set by the previous episode of being dialogue intensive, not just in the sense that the characters are talking a lot, but also in the sense that they are discussing ideas and concepts that demand that viewer’s full attention in order to be fully understood. However, where last week’s episode was somewhat abstract and more figurative, this week’s dialogue is much more direct and explicit. It’s a welcome change, in all honesty; deciphering the meaning behind Archer and Shirou’s conversation last week was demanding. http://rereadsandreviews.com/2015/05/31/ubw-21/[/quote] When did I say every VN reader got it? Way to not address the argument directly though I guess. Since you use the term salt I'll use the term 'rabid fanboy' |
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| SO then, why every anime viewer must understand it perfectly? Honestly, I don't mind. Use whatever word you want. |
Just_ChickenJun 23, 2015 12:04 AM
| Please point to where I said every anime viewer must get it. Again, nice try at not arguing against the actual argument, although this pretty much seems to be par for the course now a days. |
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nocorras said: Please point to where I said every anime viewer must get it. Again, nice try at not arguing against the actual argument, although this pretty much seems to be par for the course now a days. So it sucks because some anime viewers don't get it easily. So the VN also sucks because some VN readers don't get it easily. You seem so slow to get the point. Students now a day only want things to be spit out on their face, indeed. |
ChickenFry said: nocorras said: Please point to where I said every anime viewer must get it. Again, nice try at not arguing against the actual argument, although this pretty much seems to be par for the course now a days. So it sucks because some anime viewers don't get it easily. So the VN also sucks because some VN readers don't get it easily. You seem so slow to get the point. Students now a day only want things to be spit out on their face, indeed. Just deny the quote I posted from one of the best FSN reviewers. 2/20 reviews I read/watched got it. Great percent. Now I remember why it's not worth bothering on MAL, one side presents arguments the other presents excuses and insults. |
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| Hey, you insult first. Don't play innocent, please. :)) Just pointing out that your argument has flaws on its face. Then, I'm not denying that it's hard to get. It's great because of all the artistic detail and symbols they used. When people see it through, it is beautiful. Shakespeare doesn't need even 1/10 world population to understand his works. |
ChickenFry said: Hey, you insult first. Don't play innocent, please. :)) Just pointing out that your argument has flaws. I'm not denying that it's hard to get. It's great because of all the artistic detail and symbols they used. When people see it through, it is beautiful. Shakespeare doesn't need even 1/10 world population to understand his works. I only answered your catch phrase with an equal one in return. You don't have an argument. All you did was try to avoid my statement with a poorly formed strawman moving from not every VN reader got it (well duh) to why does every anime only need to get it (way to go to the extreme here and not try to counter the actual argument presented) I'm sorry that I got frustrated with strawman #9000. |
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nocorras said: ChickenFry said: Hey, you insult first. Don't play innocent, please. :)) Just pointing out that your argument has flaws. I'm not denying that it's hard to get. It's great because of all the artistic detail and symbols they used. When people see it through, it is beautiful. Shakespeare doesn't need even 1/10 world population to understand his works. I only answered your catch phrase with an equal one in return. You don't have an argument. All you did was try to avoid my statement with a poorly formed strawman moving from not every VN reader got it (well duh) to why does every anime only need to get it (way to go to the extreme here and not try to counter the actual argument presented) I'm sorry that I got frustrated with strawman #9000. Your argument is basically: "many people don't get it, so it sucks". You didn't take into consideration the artistic details and the meaning of each scene. I just return to you what you give. So plz, ... |
| Damn Chicken, you've been raising hell on here since you returned 0.0 |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Mickdrew said: Damn Chicken, you've been raising hell on here since you returned 0.0 It has been hell all along. Adding a little heat wouldn't make it worse. :) |
ChickenFry said: nocorras said: I only answered your catch phrase with an equal one in return. You don't have an argument. All you did was try to avoid my statement with a poorly formed strawman moving from not every VN reader got it (well duh) to why does every anime only need to get it (way to go to the extreme here and not try to counter the actual argument presented) I'm sorry that I got frustrated with strawman #9000. Your argument is basically: "many people don't get it, so it sucks". You didn't take into consideration the artistic details and the meaning of each scene. I just return to you what you give. So plz, ... It's ok if you know Shirou's answer. If not gl coming to it easily. No where did I say it sucked. It's not effective at conveying the message, I'm glad you can enjoy a scene for 'artistic value' when you already know the answer. And no I didn't give you a strawman, but you sure like to dish them out. |
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| I advice you to try something: Gather 20 random people. Ask them to read Hamlet. Then ask them if they understand anything. I'm sure there is a fair chance that 20/20 would say that they don't understand a thing. Does that make Hamlet not successful at conveying its message? |
nocorras said: Just deny the quote I posted from one of the best FSN reviewers. 2/20 reviews I read/watched got it. Great percent. Now I remember why it's not worth bothering on MAL, one side presents arguments the other presents excuses and insults. Except your argument is flawed from the beginning For one 20 reviewers is way too small of a sample size. Also, there is no way to know what reviewers you chose, whether you alternate reviewers by episodes, whether they do good at reviewing other shows. Statistics are full of bias I could choose 20 random reviewers that didn't get it, and get 2 out of 20 Then I could choose another 20 and all of a sudden get 18 out of 20 in both cases they don't prove anything. Do you understand statistics? There's a reason statistics will always be the last resort when presenting facts, all statistics are flawed. Try this: ChickenFry said: I advice you to try something: Gather 20 random people. Ask them to read Hamlet. Then ask them if they understand anything. I'm sure there is a fair chance that 20/20 would say that they don't understand a thing. Does that make Hamlet not successful at conveying its message? Actually try Grapes of Wrath, which is a required reading in highschool meaning more people would have read it. |
 |
KamiCity said: nocorras said: Just deny the quote I posted from one of the best FSN reviewers. 2/20 reviews I read/watched got it. Great percent. Now I remember why it's not worth bothering on MAL, one side presents arguments the other presents excuses and insults. Except your argument is flawed from the beginning For one 20 reviewers is way too small of a sample size. Also, there is no way to know what reviewers you chose, whether you alternate reviewers by episodes, whether they do good at reviewing other shows. Statistics are full of bias I could choose 20 random reviewers that didn't get it, and get 2 out of 20 Then I could choose another 20 and all of a sudden get 18 out of 20 in both cases they don't prove anything. Do you understand statistics? There's a reason statistics will always be the last resort when presenting facts, all statistics are flawed. Yes I understand statistics. I gave the evidence that I have and linked to the reviewer that is regarded as one of the best for FSN. Every argument he gives is a strawman or doesn't address the argument, convenient. If you want to go at this I'm willing to watch FSN episode 20 reviews with you to 'get a reasonable sample size'. I have 20 down how many more do you want to go? And if you do think the anime conveys the message well then by all means post your evidence. |
nocorrasJun 23, 2015 12:51 AM
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| Hah, I don't like to go directly to the point like Kami does. I always encourage people to think. But some people don't like that, I guess. :)) Btw, who is that reviewer? He is regarded one of the best by who? Any credibility? A lot of flaws still there. |
nocorras said: KamiCity said: Except your argument is flawed from the beginning For one 20 reviewers is way too small of a sample size. Also, there is no way to know what reviewers you chose, whether you alternate reviewers by episodes, whether they do good at reviewing other shows. Statistics are full of bias I could choose 20 random reviewers that didn't get it, and get 2 out of 20 Then I could choose another 20 and all of a sudden get 18 out of 20 in both cases they don't prove anything. Do you understand statistics? There's a reason statistics will always be the last resort when presenting facts, all statistics are flawed. Yes I understand statistics. I gave the evidence that I have and linked to the reviewer that is regarded as one of the best for FSN. Every argument he gives is a strawman or doesn't address the argument, convenient. If you want to go at this I'm willing to watch FSN episode 20 reviews with you to 'get a reasonable sample size'. I have 20 down how many more do you want to go? And if you do think the anime conveys the message well then by all means post your evidence. You'd have to find out the confidence level on the reviewers before you even attempted that and trust me the sample size would be pretty big before you actually got a good confidence lever for that. You'd also have to put in a lot of factors How many are F/Z viewers? How many actually pay attention to detail? How many lie? How many actually analyse what they watch? Point being, it's way too biased to go off of percentage of viewers and in fact it's a fallacy called "misuse of statistics" to even attempt it. A few youtube reviewers don't represent the full statistical population, a few watchers on MAL don't represent it either. I mean if we were to go off statistics, the ratings of FSN alone would disprove anything you have to say.... of course statistics are flawed so it would be incorrect to do so. ALSO this ChickenFry said: Btw, who is that reviewer? He is regarded one of the best by who? Any credibility? A lot of flaws still there. |
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| I doubt there would even be enough reviews for you to be satisfied in any way anyway, pretty much devoured all of them I could the first few days after episode 20 because I was interested in how many got it. Sorry that I presented what I had, I guess I'll just go scour up the endless quotes of people calling him an idiot and obviously not understanding the answer presented, while there is a surprising lack of 'ah so that's what Shirou thinks'. |
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nocorras said: I doubt there would even be enough reviews for you to be satisfied in any way anyway, pretty much devoured all of them I could the first few days after episode 20 because I was interested in how many got it. Sorry that I presented what I had, I guess I'll just go scour up the endless quotes of people calling him an idiot and obviously not understanding the answer presented, while there is a surprising lack of 'ah so that's what Shirou thinks'. You mean Confirmation BIas I could also look up all those quotes in youtube comments of people going "ah so that's what Shirou thinks" So what's your point? That reviewers tend to suck? The general population has gone against reviewers all the time. Anime, Music, Video Games, Movies, you name it. Just look at the discrepancy between critics and the general audience on rotten tomatoes. They rarely ever agree. |
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KamiCity said: nocorras said: I doubt there would even be enough reviews for you to be satisfied in any way anyway, pretty much devoured all of them I could the first few days after episode 20 because I was interested in how many got it. Sorry that I presented what I had, I guess I'll just go scour up the endless quotes of people calling him an idiot and obviously not understanding the answer presented, while there is a surprising lack of 'ah so that's what Shirou thinks'. You mean Confirmation BIas I could also look up all those quotes in youtube comments of people going "ah so that's what Shirou thinks" So what's your point? That reviewers tend to suck? The general population has gone against reviewers all the time. Anime, Music, Video Games, Movies, you name it. Just look at the discrepancy between critics and the general audience on rotten tomatoes. They rarely ever agree. So now everyone just sucks at analyzing things I guess? Like I said if you disagree and think that the anime gets the message across well in episode 20 I'd love to see your write up. All I initially said was that the episode is ok if you know the answer and gl trying to get that answer if you don't already know it. Some how this statement blows up into this. |
nocorrasJun 23, 2015 1:16 AM
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| But you need to prove that why it is hard to understand without VN knowledge. You used statistic, and it has flaws everywhere. |
nocorras said: So now everyone just sucks at analyzing things I guess? Like I said if you disagree and think that the anime gets the message across well in episode 20 I'd love to see your write up. All I initially said was that the episode is ok if you know the answer and gl trying to get that answer if you don't already know it. Some how this statement blows up into this. That isn't what I said at all, but good job trying to change what I said to fit your views. Also, all I was doing was showing you how you were misusing statistics, and how it was a flaw in your argument. I really don't care who or what got the message the show was trying to portray. Like chicken said, if you choose 20 people who have read hamlet, it's highly likely that their interpretations won't fit yours. |
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ChickenFry said: But you need to prove that why it is hard to understand without VN knowledge. You used statistic, and it has flaws everywhere. And you formed your strawman before I ever brought up 2/20. You didn't say anything other than 'it's artistic so it can be vague and hard to get'. So I guess you agree with me that the message is hard to get? Which was my point the whole time. I never once said the episode sucked. I guess you want to argue just for the sake of it. Won't fall for that trap again. I guess I'll state that the 'artistic value' doesn't make up for the lack of a digestible explanation for me. |
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nocorras said: ChickenFry said: But you need to prove that why it is hard to understand without VN knowledge. You used statistic, and it has flaws everywhere. And you formed your strawman before I ever brought up 2/20. You didn't say anything other than 'it's artistic so it can be vague and hard to get'. So I guess you agree with me that the message is hard to get? Which was my point the whole time. I never once said the episode sucked. I guess you want to argue just for the sake of it. Won't fall for that trap again. Umm "it's artistic so it can be vague and hard to get" is not a strawman, it doesn't derail from the argument it offers an alternative. He could have worded it better though, Would you say "it's artistic so it requires analysis, and it does not spoonfeed it to you" is a strawman also? Examples of a strawman President: I'm cutting the attack submarine program Person B: Well the president wants the entire country to be defenseless. |
KamiCityJun 23, 2015 1:51 AM
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KamiCity said: nocorras said: And you formed your strawman before I ever brought up 2/20. You didn't say anything other than 'it's artistic so it can be vague and hard to get'. So I guess you agree with me that the message is hard to get? Which was my point the whole time. I never once said the episode sucked. I guess you want to argue just for the sake of it. Won't fall for that trap again. Umm "it's artistic so it can be vague and hard to get" is not a strawman, he could have worded it better. Would you say "it's artistic so it requires analysis, and it does not spoonfeed it to you" is a strawman also? That is not what I'm referring to as a strawman. He took my implication that 'more people should be able to get it in the anime' and made the extreme counter of 'SO then, why every anime viewer must understand it perfectly??' when that's obviously not what I meant or anyone could ever reasonably hope for. Hell there are things out righte stated or out right shown in the anime that people complain is lacking. |
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nocorras said: KamiCity said: Umm "it's artistic so it can be vague and hard to get" is not a strawman, he could have worded it better. Would you say "it's artistic so it requires analysis, and it does not spoonfeed it to you" is a strawman also? That is not what I'm referring to as a strawman. He took my implication that 'more people should be able to get it in the anime' and made the extreme counter of 'SO then, why every anime viewer must understand it perfectly??' when that's obviously not what I meant or anyone could ever reasonably hope for. Ok then, that is a strawman. |
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nocorras said: ChickenFry said: But you need to prove that why it is hard to understand without VN knowledge. You used statistic, and it has flaws everywhere. And you formed your strawman before I ever brought up 2/20. You didn't say anything other than 'it's artistic so it can be vague and hard to get'. So I guess you agree with me that the message is hard to get? Which was my point the whole time. I never once said the episode sucked. I guess you want to argue just for the sake of it. Won't fall for that trap again. To sum up, my point is: I don't have enough evidences, so I neither agree or disagree with you. But if you want to say it is hard to understand, better analyze the episodes. And I know that symbolism is not something easy to understand. One thing I can say for sure is that Ufo put so much thoughts into the episode to make it as meaningful as possible. This isn't some shallow piece of entertainment that you could turn off your brain and go with it. So this is not something to criticize them for. |
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