| Welp. The World is Still Beautiful was one of the shows I was kinda interested in. I only watched Jojo which is Jojo and no further explanation is needed. And "selector infected something or the other" which wasn't particularly offensive, unless you find mediocrity offensive in that case it was very offensive. Has incest and moeblob characters. Likely to go into the stupid edgy gritty pseudo-intellectual (but not really) DEEP(but not really) territory. Will watch more after my midterms. |
| I've wanted to watch Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, but I haven't yet seen the first season, so it'll have to wait. I want to see Ping Pong (because it's Masaaki Yuasa), and I seriously hope crunchyroll picks it up. I also liked the first episode of the new Mushi-Shi season. Those two were the ones I really was excited about. |
| Watched the world is still beautiful. I didn't think it was too bad. Also the female lead seems to be decent. Definitely one of the better ones I've seen in shoujo anime. |
| Eh, I think I may ultimately have been enraged by the idiots on the crunchyroll comments more than anything else. I need to remind myself not to bother with them......... |
| I can imagine that. After I taught myself to not read comments my internet experience was significantly improved. |
| I don't consider Death Note to be sexist. Yeah it doesn't have the best female characters. But none of the characters except Light, L and Ryuk has any depth or development. Then again I liked Misa and thought some of the stuff she did was damn clever so what do I know. |
| The problem I have with Misa is that she's treated really inconsistently. One minute shes coming up with plans that are just as clever if not more clever than Light's the next she's a babbling bimbo who does incredibly stupid things that put her and Light in danger. And Misa's far from the only poorly treated female character in there I could go on but it would take to long. The characters in Death Note weren't particularly great but with the female ones there's an extra slice of "I don't know how to write girls!!" that hurt the show. And honestly the manga wasn't really much better female character-wise. |
| Her babbling bimboness can partly be explained by her being an idol. And idol are supposed to be cute. and Japan things babbling idiots are kawaii as fuck so... I'm not very far in the manga but so far it's pretty much the same as the anime. Naomi is great in the prequel novel. Maybe that's what's meant by "better in the manga". |
| Ping Pong's first episode was fabulous. The animation is really amazing. I take it that most people are watching it for Yuasa, but I'm more into it for the original creator who also created Tekkon Kinkreet among other manga works. His art style is very distinctive and wonderful and some people might be put off by it, but I'd definitely recommend it to everyone to try out! Plus, what's not to love about intense ping pong matches? They also have a Chinese character that actually speaks Chinese with the right accent and all! |
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| I was intrerested in Ping Pong before. I hoped it could be in my top 3 anime of the season, but I didn't really think it could be just quite up there with Mushishi and JoJo. It turns out I was wrong. The anime surpassed my expectations in every regard. I have zero interest in ping pong, but those characters have massive potential for development/exploration. Yes, I absolutely loved the first episode and I hope it stays as good. I see people on MAL/net complaining about the art left and right, but to me it looks exaclty as I expected it to be (considering it's Yuasa and having skimmed the manga). |
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| Those people on MAL aren't worth a second thought. It probably doesn't have enough catgirls for them. Anyway, I need to find a way to get my hands on that, since Funimation picked it up in the USA and it thus far isn't open for free users. I'm torn between really wanting to watch it because of how much I like Yuasa's other work, and feeling apprehensive because of how much I disliked Tekkon Kinkreet (though I never read the manga, so who knows how much of that was just Michael Arias' directing style). |
| Loved Kemonozume. I've been meaning to watch something else from Yuasa. |
| I am very tired because I swear for a sec I thought you were asking to have it put onto our feminist list and I just stared at the screen blankly. I have heard many horror stories of this show and shall add it. |
| It's that bad? Huh. I had friends who really liked that show too :/ |
Earwen said: It's that bad? Huh. I had friends who really liked that show too :/ It wasn't THAT bad, but it's true that the show pretty much started with a rape joke. Here's the page from the manga. Not saying that the show/manga is good, but modern shoujo has seen worse. This only had a rape joke (probably makes things worse since it's not a thing to joke about), while some shoujo manga have really offending portrayal of women and actual rape that the female character enjoyed. There are a lot of shoujo focusing on men degrading the female protagonist. In some manga the heroine actually does get raped, and even forgives and loves her rapist. The only bizarre thing about all that is that females write it and girls enjoy reading it. It's far from a girl dreaming about her prince charming, it's about girls reading stories where men violate and abuse the heroine and enjoying these stories. |
 "Your sight, my delight. Will you marry me?" |
ZetaZaku said: Are you perhaps talking about Haou Airen? The first time I knew about this manga is from reading Envy's review (my God, I miss him), and yes this manga romance revolve around the girl who fall in love with her rapist/abuser just because he's a bishounen and need some love. I couldn't remember the exact pages to show some examples though :sThere are a lot of shoujo focusing on men degrading the female protagonist. In some manga the heroine actually does get raped, and even forgives and loves her rapist. The only bizarre thing about all that is that females write it and girls enjoy reading it. It's far from a girl dreaming about her prince charming, it's about girls reading stories where men violate and abuse the heroine and enjoying these stories. Here's the review: http://myanimelist.net/profile/Yakub/reviews |
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| So, I gave The World is Still Beautiful a chance and it's amazing how much it's grown on me. That whole first episode was a crapshow that never needed to happen. |
| Yeah, once Livius gives up the cruelty, it's nice. I think it was meant to hook people, sadly. What's interesting to me is that anime always conveys royalty and/or sophistication through English or French-inspired mores and language. Imperialism still going strong in 2014. |
| Please add Hot Gimmick. It's seriously the most misogynistic piece of trash my eyes have ever been soiled with. |
| Okay okay sorry but I needed to point this out: "He's stupid, likes porn (and I feel because of this, he views females as sexual objects only) and is also very sexist towards women." How many guys do you know and how well do you know them? Guys watch porn. Watching porn is not a problem. The porn industry is a huge problem, like don't even get me started on that shit, but watching porn is not a problem. Biologically guys do have higher sex drives than women (most of the time) and they DO need to relieve their sexual tensions. No, seriously- Men NEED to relieve that, biologically, it is something they absolutely have to do (in most cases). It is scientifically proven to relieve stress among many other things. I know plenty of respectful guys who watch porn, so please please please don't EVER say that watching porn means a guy doesn't respect women. Pleeeeaaase. I can't stress enough how uneducated that statement is. So avoid it in the future. I also want to point out that as I recall he never does anything sexist towards the women. Feel free to point out these instances where you think he does this, but watching porn and thinking dirty thoughts does not make him a sexist. It makes him a human with hormones. I have to disagree about Hideki not being a nice guy. He's a guy. He's not especially perverted, he's a college guy and they're portraying him as such. I'm not sure how many guys you know, but uh... Hideki isn't terribly abnormal. You also have to remember that this is Japan and Japan is innately more sexist that many other countries and has a different view of pornography. Which is of course a problem, but really, there's nothing especially bad about Hideki as a person. He does respect the women around him but because he's the main character we see his thoughts- However, they are ONLY THOUGHTS. If you recall, at the end he was okay with not having sex or anything with Chii because he did love her, and I thought that was a nice message. That said though, yes there are plenty of issues of sexism in Chobits but Hideki's character is absolutely not one of them. He's an average college guy with dirty thoughts who does not act on them because he does respect the women around him, even Chii. The pedophilia thing though, THAT I agree with and as a HUUUGGGE CLAMP fangirl, I can attest to the fact that it's probably somewhat intentional. The ladies of CLAMP are very much shut ins so a lot of the relationships in their series are very skewed (recall the teacher and 4th grade student relationship in CCS that was essentially cut out of the anime). They have shown a penchant for displaying somewhat pedophilic relationships and how 'cute' they are. Overall CLAMP never really had much empowerment in their stuff. They really don't, a lot of their stuff is in fact fairly sexist. We have CCS on our relations, but even then it's ONLY the anime, not the manga. I'm okay with adding Chobits, I'd like to get some other opinions on it, but just.. Your statements about Hideki bothered me very much. Guys watch porn. They think dirty thoughts, it's natural- What matters is how they act on it. |
Amberleh said: Biologically guys do have higher sex drives than women (most of the time)[...] That is simply not true. That was debunked a long time ago. Neither do adult men think about sex as often as previously asserted. I'd advise you to research it, as we tend to generalize from our experiences or internalize media narratives as fact. Women's lib in the US was quite recent, so, in contrast to men's sexuality, women have not been inundated with messages, especially in popular film, that our sexuality is natural, extolling it, or encouraging us to explore it. (Have you ever seen ecchi directed towards women?) Quite the contrary. We're taught to maintain our virginity or a low number of partners or risk male disapproval. We're taught not to lay a pinky finger on our bodies unless it's for washing purposes. Gynecologists have talked about the many patients coming to them who refuse to touch their organs or name them. However, we're seeing successive generations dump that baggage, and hopefully, we'll see that continue, as opposed to previous generations of women who didn't expect to orgasm, believing themselves less sexual or asexual (and their partners believed the same) and didn't orgasm, in self-fulfilling prophecy. Mainstream porn and ecchi may be created by and targeted towards men, but if you've any doubt, research erotica, which is created by women. It's a big industry. All that ish, about women taking longer to orgasm -you should hear some of the women complaining they orgasm too quickly- or not being visual -go to Goodreads romance groups and try not to find a NSFW thread with images of male models, lol- rubbish. There's more variance between individuals than between genders. Plenty of women with high libido and men with low libido. As for Chobits, I think the appeal of the robot woman to men, other than physical perfection, has always been basically obedience and a side of narcissism (or insecurity). Robots tell us what we want to hear. No surprise that Chobits mixes in naive high school girls. If you'd like to see this idea subverted, see the movie Her. |
new_userJun 4, 2014 2:47 PM
| Why are Code Geass and Clannad up there? I don't see how they are sexistl |
| WHAT IS THIS |
| If you look far back enough in the discussion, people have posted their reasoning. Perhaps read the reasoning before arguing against it. |
SarcotarascusN said: If you look far back enough in the discussion, people have posted their reasoning. Perhaps read the reasoning before arguing against it. There is way to much reading. |
| WHAT IS THIS |
| Code Geass and Clannad were one of the first anime brought up or contested iirc, so they should be on the first couple of pages, if not the very first. I doubt that there's anyone here that'd be willing to re-write their arguments for you though when they're already here, if that's what you're hoping for. |
| So you ask why and then refuse to read the explanation. Okay. |
| I would put to the list Nobunaga the Fool, though I've seen only two episodes of it so maybe someone who have seen more could confirm if it's really that bad? Reason why I only watched two: Male lead Nobunaga and other male characters kept treating Joan Darc like trash, shouting at her at pointless things and pushing her to ground harshly. Joan Darc, who's historically supposed to be a strong female charater, was presented as hopeless damsel in distress and sex object. I simply couldn't keep watching. |
| She doesn't have much to do as of episode 9, either. That's about where I finally got bored of the series. |
| May I suggest something I haven't finished yet or do I have to have the series completed? |
 |
| okay I would like to suggest Fushigi Yuugi. I am going to put it in a spoiler tag since my reasons have some spoilers in it. [spoiler] I am currently as I am typing this on episode 33 and there are already a plethora of problems with this anime. Miyaka is a very weak character. She can hardly fight for herself and needs 7 men to defend her. Miyaka says this more or less : "How can you be a warrior? You're a woman." to a female attacker. Miyaka is physically abused by a cursed Tomahome (her lover) and doesn't care hardly at all. He breaks her arm and she doesn't even give him the cold shoulder or anything. She just cries and gets upset when her guardians try to teach him a lesson. I realize he's cursed but she doesn't know that. The anime has a very poor portrayal of dealing with abuse. She doesn't feel betrayed by him or anything. She forgives him before he even apologizes... The anime puts a huge importance on virginity. Miyaka cannot summon Suzaku unless she is a virgin. We are all feminists here I think so I don't feel like I need to go into why that is problematic. The anime deals with rape poorly. No one seems to care that Yui was raped upon arrival. It bothers me that she opened up and told people about it but no one really cares. Also she is seen as a villain, plus she isn't a virgin anymore, making it so that she cannot fulfil her quest as the priestess of Seiryuu since she isn't pure. This anime lacks a strong female character and deals with serious issues in a very problematic way. I am wondering if it will get better towards the end but I seriously doubt it. |
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| I've heard several people complain about Fushigi Yugi and it's plethora of attempted rape so I shall add it. I totally believe it because I've read Ayashi no Ceres AND Absolute Boyfriend, both of which were fairly sexist in their own rights so I totally believe Fushigi Yugi is even worse in that regard. I will go ahead and add both Chobits and Fushigi Yugi and while I'm at it I'm gonna add Absolute Boyfriend and Mars. Edit: Also added Mahouka and No Game No Life. Those last two might just be more stupid than sexist but if there are a lot of legitimate complaints and not just "I LOVE THIS SERIES HOW DARE YOU" then I shall remove them. |
AmberlehJun 19, 2014 7:56 PM
| Agree with adding FY! I remember the same. It was a poor showing coming so soon after Sailor Moon (I think?) Ayashi no Ceres is kind of interesting because It was female-centered and centered around her feelings in comparison to other media ignoring women's agency, but yeah. I did not read more than a chap of Absolute Boyfriend, but it just seemed like wish fulfillment. What was up with that one? I think I can guess, given Yuu Watase's propensities. That is really the only plot device she employs. |
new_userJun 20, 2014 2:06 PM
| How could you put Mahouka on the list, Amber? ;_; It doesn't deserve to be grouped together with shows that, despite being sexist and riddled with problems, still have some redeeming qualities. Mahouka has none. of course, I am not seriously suggesting its removal. It being on any kind of bad list is fine with me since it feeds my unhealthy hatred strong dislike. |
metamorphiusJun 20, 2014 2:12 PM
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metamorphius said: How could you put Mahouka on the list, Amber? ;_; It doesn't deserve to be grouped together with shows that, despite being sexist and riddled with problems, still have some redeeming qualities. Mahouka has none. of course, I am not seriously suggesting its removal. It being on any kind of bad list is fine with me since it feeds my unhealthy hatred strong dislike. Glad to see the Mahouka hate is growing strong. This show has such conservative and backward views on women it's almost physically painful to watch. Add to that the obligatory body shaming of the bigger breasted female char and that's it for me. Pouah! I would also suggest adding Black Bullet : while the root of the problem lies more in the sexualisation and shameless use of children as cheap plot devices, the whole bsnss with every single female character (from the country's biggest brain to the damn governor of Tokyo) needing the protagonist's protection is just as bad. |
SapewlothJun 21, 2014 6:20 AM
| Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
Sapewloth said: Glad to see the Mahouka hate is growing strong. This show has such conservative and backward views on women it's almost physically painful to watch. Add to that the obligatory body shaming of the bigger breasted female char and that's it for me. Pouah! B-but, don't you think this outfit is a bit too revealing and inappropriate, as our perfect Yamato Nadeshiko points out. That megane girl should know her place. I lament the day I started watching this piece of manure. And I kinda knew what I was getting into, so I have only myself to blame, unlike with, say, SAO. Of course, SAO was much easier to watch and arguably a better series, so I shouldn't bring it up. |
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ZetaZaku said: When I checked what Black Buttler was, this was among the first hits. Oh yeah, that too. @meta Surely Miyuki-sama cannot be wrong : if she ever deems an outfit too revealing, the poor girl should just go and change rather than shamelessly exposing herself to the eyes of our revered Tastuya onii-sama. Pftt. I remember commenting on the episode just to rant about that specific scene. And I agree with you about SAO. It was overall way more entertaining, and while it had its fair share of issues, it only really carried a positive message regarding video game experiences and never appeared to me as "ill-intentioned" or unhealthy, unlike I felt while watching Mahouka. And I have my problems with Asuna, but she's definitely a better character than 99% of the females in Mahouka. |
SapewlothJun 21, 2014 6:33 AM
| Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
| I agree. That girl has no regard to poor Tatsuya onii-sama's eyes. Fortunately, he has no time for silly women and their silly antics. Oh, man, I shouldn't be getting into Mahouka rant mood, because that's a never-ending story. The anime vacillates between boring and dangerously stupid in the ideas/viewpoints it promotes, so each episode offers plenty of material that annoy me. I know I said this before (I don't remember where though), but despite my dislike for SAO, I can understand why people would like it. I get its appeal, especially the first half's. In the case of Mahouka, however, I just can't. Perhaps I am looking at it from a rigid perspective, but I don't even care anymore. This is the worst anime I have had displeasure to watch, not counting those few so-bad-its-good titles. Granted, I tend to be picky in what I watch and generally avoid anime that obviously don't appeal to me, but still, that is an achievement for Mahouka in its own way. Okay, I should stop now before I go completely into off-topic. |
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| Hi I'm new here and I'm really glad to have found this club! I'd like to suggest 3 titles to be added to the list: Brothers Conflict, Paradise Kiss, and Hana Yori Dango. The female in BroCon is constantly getting sexually harassed by her step brothers and she pretty much never stands up for herself. Paradise Kiss has a rape victim stay with and love her rapist. I also had a lot of problems with Yukari's character too. When you read the anime synopsis, the premise sounds empowering, but it isn't when you examine that she is motivated by her feelings for George. The manga actually goes more in depth with the weak women theme. Hana Yori Dango shows the bullying and sexual harassment of a female, who then falls in love with her abuser. I feel like the mangaka for Hot Gimmick was initially inspired by this story. I would even say that Hana Yori Dango is what made the abusive dick character popular in shoujo. ---- |
Daisy_petalsJun 21, 2014 9:53 PM
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| I debated adding both Paradise Kiss and BroCon to the list. Wasn't sure about BroCon because it's so unpopular anyway, but yeah I'll go ahead and add them both. Don't know much about Hana Yori though I have heard of it. I will add it as well. |
Sapewloth said: I would also suggest adding Black Bullet : while the root of the problem lies more in the sexualisation and shameless use of children as cheap plot devices, the whole bsnss with every single female character (from the country's biggest brain to the damn governor of Tokyo) needing the protagonist's protection is just as bad. Agreed, and as far as I've gotten there's no clear reason for all of the cursed children being female aside from appealing to the otakudom. It's not a completely worthless show (the director, who also made Monster, makes the best out of what seems like another crappy light novel series and does some good action scenes), but I lost interest in it pretty quickly. Gave up on No Game No Life after two episodes because of the lolicon, also. |
| I actually didn't find Stiens;Gate to be particularly sexist. It wasn't super female-positive or anything, but I didn't find it particularly offensive either. Feel free to go into detail though 8) |
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