Bleach Chapter 514 Discussion

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Nov 6, 2012 5:48 AM

#201

Zell182

Offline

Jul 2009

3911

Personally I don't think he meant "son" in the literal sense. I always wondered if Ichigo's mother was something to do with Soul Society but I never expected her to be of Quincy descent.

Nov 6, 2012 6:41 AM

#202

Outrajous

Offline

Nov 2012

Hi all, newbie/first post here, great reading this thread. Sorry it’s a long one as there are so many opinions here and I wanted to touch upon some of them.

First of all Mr Bach (as I like to call him) has to be a full Quincy. This fits the story of revenge/wanting to destroy SS/hate of being defeated in the last war, which is proven with his past relationship/conversations with the captain commander. Being an ex-Shinigami will make the plot way too stupid and too much like the fullbring Arc. Quincy vs. Shinigami/past/answers is the focus here.

As someone has mentioned the Quincy’s are like a cult/a religious group who believe they have some sort of divine right to vanquish evil. Mr Bach being a king/ 'cult’ leader gives him the position to call Ichigo ‘son’ like a priest would do. There may be some sort of blood relation from his mother’s side. But I do not think this is the case. If there was a blood relation, like the Vizards you would approach and try to get Ichigo “a special war potential” on your side as your Son or Grandson how he tired with Azien. True there was some sort of re-education that Bach wanted to do to Ichigo.

With the revelation of his mother most likely being a Quincy, this leads to Ichigo being Part Quincy/human and Shinigami/human and that’s it. It’s obvious from his family/sisters/mother/father/events and Ichigo predominately being a Shingami that Isshin is his father. But the reason why I say Shinigami/human is because ichigo must have been born a human. Isshin must have been a full human as we know he didn’t have his powers (return) for a while and this is the really interesting part. It can become a story of love like Romeo (Isshin) and Juliet (Ichy’s Mother). Did Isshin/mother give up their powers and get banished to earth? Was there some sort of fight where Isshin when into FGT mode?

This is where the born in darkness comes along. It may just mean just unaware of roots or hidden/away from the Quincy/Shinigami world. Or in a time of hardship/wars/fights for Quincy’s and Shinigami’s.

Going back to Ichigo, there are many concerns that he is a mix of everything and has everything and this worry comes from the Fullbring arch where Ichigo dramatically changed and everyone wanted the samurai badass look and swords fights back.

If he was born part Quincy/human and Shinigami/human, he was still just a human with genes of Quincy/Shinigami somewhere inside him. He was made a Shinigami substitute as we all know through Rukia and this must have awaken his Shinigami roots/side/talent. What is strange no one in SS has mentioned Isshin and Ichigo does not ask about it…

His hollow side only came about from having his soul chain broken/losing his powers and in him regaining them he nearly became a hollow and created a hollow part insdie him, like Vizards.

Full bring power occurs when a mother with an unborn baby is attacked by a hollow. I am guessing there is some kind of Hollow Reatsu is absorbed (this is one of the main differences with Quincy’s) and though an object of emotion/ valued possession that power is realised. Extreme fitness/strength is also required.

Yes Ichigo has gone on a journey and he has become a bit of a freak but it all makes sense. if we can believe or follow this whole story why can he not be part Quincy or awaken in dormant powers/genes.

Nov 6, 2012 3:22 PM

#203

Silver_Vixen

Offline

Sep 2011

212

no ichigo's dad was exiled remember. what did he do that caused him to be exiled. oh yeah have a child with a quincy or at least started a relationship with a quincy!

[url=http://myanimelist.net/animelist/MrsRoyMustang&sclick=1]

Nov 6, 2012 4:47 PM

#204

Cooperation-san

Offline

Oct 2010

1289

i don't think juha bach is his actual father, but if what he is saying is true, ichigo is shinigami, arrankar, quincy and human, wow kubo

http://bit.ly/a5VFVB

Nov 6, 2012 5:04 PM

#205

Trexx25

Offline

Sep 2012

His hollow side only came about from having his soul chain broken/losing his powers and in him regaining them he nearly became a hollow and created a hollow part insdie him

No this is wrong, and I don't understand where all the speculation has stemmed from. I am seeing many people theorizing about Ichigo's "makeup", and how he gained his Hollow powers.

Ichigo gained his Hollow side from Lord Aizen and the Hogyoku. It has been stated many times that the power of the Hogyoku is to manifest the desire's of the people's hearts around it. Ichigo acquired his Hollow side stemming from the fact that the Hogyoku can break down the barrier separating Soul Reapers and Hollows. This is really the only way someone can gain the power necessary to transcend both SR and Hollow, and consequentially for Ichigo, the way he could best protect the people he loved.

Needing to become stronger, Ichigo subconsciously yearned for a way to do so, and sensing his hearts desire for more power, the Hogyoku (which was inside Rukia who was staying with Ichigo at the time) then destroyed the barrier in Ichigo, thus allowing him to acquire his Hollow powers which he would never have been able to attain otherwise.

And one more thing, I'm predicting right now that Haschwald(Blondie) is Ichigo's long lost brother. They look remarkably similar to me, in fact their faces are almost identical, and the way he has been interacting with Ichigo seems kinda strange. Also the fact that he could sense Ichigo's reiastu even before Bach makes me think they are connected.

Nov 6, 2012 7:15 PM

#206

Kayaba-

Offline

May 2011

3621

^

Except for the fact that Rukia was being detained in Soul Society when Ichigo's mask, or any hint of an inner hollow first appeared at Urahara's place during training.

Nov 7, 2012 12:20 AM

#207

Trexx25

Offline

Sep 2012

^ That is an absolutely meaningless point. Once the Hogyoku realizes the hearts desires of those around it, there is no longer any need to be in the vicinity of the Hogyoku for those powers to awaken and be developed. The Hogyoku gives a person the potential to realize their hearts desire, that does not mean they still don't have to work to achieve what they want. This was seen multiple times in Ichigo's progressive Hollowfied states, as well as the successive development of both Chad's, and Orihime's powers(both of which attained their respective abilities the same way Ichigo did, by the power of the Hogyoku). While neither one was anywhere near the Hogyoku, they still saw an evolution in their powers, Chad's being gaining an ability in the other arm, and Orihime's with the progression of her rejection powers.

I would suggest doing some re-reading.

Nov 7, 2012 12:52 AM

#208

Kanic

Offline

Mar 2011

1265

Is bleach on break or sth?

"But don't cry my friends, we are all the same.Every one of us is a human with "H" capital...
and now we are two and one of us has to be shit."
-Mr.Freeman

Nov 7, 2012 12:53 AM

#209

SexySanta

Offline

Sep 2012

8989

Kanic said:
Is bleach on break or sth?

Wondering this as well. There was no mention of a break on this chapter. Maybe it's just releasing a bit late. Are there any websites that have countdowns for manga releases?

Nov 7, 2012 12:56 AM

#210

deg

lagom

Online

Jan 2009

107000

nah MangaPanda the fastest scanlators of the big 3 (Bleach, Naruto, OnePiece) says all will be out today so just check their twitter or facebook page for updates

see this - https://twitter.com/MangaPanda1/status/266057260185292800

Nov 7, 2012 1:16 AM

#211

SexySanta

Offline

Sep 2012

8989

j0x said:
nah MangaPanda the fastest scanlators of the big 3 (Bleach, Naruto, OnePiece) says all will be out today so just check their twitter or facebook page for updates

see this - https://twitter.com/MangaPanda1/status/266057260185292800

Sweet thank you for this, I'll just have to wait a little longer.

Nov 7, 2012 1:40 AM

#212

bassommy

Offline

Oct 2012

515 available in mangareader

Nothing 2 Say

Nov 7, 2012 1:40 AM

#213

SexySanta

Offline

Sep 2012

8989

bassommy said:
515 available in mangareader

Thank you so much, I am reading now.

Nov 7, 2012 3:01 AM

#214

Outrajous

Offline

Nov 2012

Trexx25 said:
His hollow side only came about from having his soul chain broken/losing his powers and in him regaining them he nearly became a hollow and created a hollow part insdie him

No this is wrong, and I don't understand where all the speculation has stemmed from. I am seeing many people theorizing about Ichigo's "makeup", and how he gained his Hollow powers.

Ichigo gained his Hollow side from Lord Aizen and the Hogyoku. It has been stated many times that the power of the Hogyoku is to manifest the desire's of the people's hearts around it. Ichigo acquired his Hollow side stemming from the fact that the Hogyoku can break down the barrier separating Soul Reapers and Hollows. This is really the only way someone can gain the power necessary to transcend both SR and Hollow, and consequentially for Ichigo, the way he could best protect the people he loved.

Needing to become stronger, Ichigo subconsciously yearned for a way to do so, and sensing his hearts desire for more power, the Hogyoku (which was inside Rukia who was staying with Ichigo at the time) then destroyed the barrier in Ichigo, thus allowing him to acquire his Hollow powers which he would never have been able to attain otherwise.

And one more thing, I'm predicting right now that Haschwald(Blondie) is Ichigo's long lost brother. They look remarkably similar to me, in fact their faces are almost identical, and the way he has been interacting with Ichigo seems kinda strange. Also the fact that he could sense Ichigo's reiastu even before Bach makes me think they are connected.

Thanks, I forgot this and just remembered Ichigo nearly turning into a hollow from regaining his powers. My point however is that his hollow/fullbring side is not his natural self/root. It is a cause like you say the desire to get more powerful to protect his friends.

Blondie does look a lot like Ichigo, but we have seen this before with Stark and captain pink blossom (sorry forgot his name).
It will be strange if he was his brother, would that mean they have the same father but he is a full Quincy? this leads on to Ichigo. if he wasn’t stabbed by Rukia, could he become a Quincy? interesting. I do think however this guy will probably become his friend.

Nov 13, 2012 9:46 AM

#215

Zogundar

Offline

Nov 2009

In light of this new revelation, I went back and checked some old chapters that might be relevant.

1) We don't see Grand Fisher kill Masaki
If it had been Grand Fisher, why didn't it eat both her and Ichigo? We're to believe it killed her, left her body, left Ichigo, and then left the scene? At the very least someone had to have interfered to make him retreat. Unlikely to have been Isshin based on his later confrontation with Grand Fisher. I guess it COULD have been Masaki herself, (We have no way of knowing her strength level) but the way she seemed to be shielding Ichigo suggests to me a last resort that still requires the presence of some outside assistance to actually defeat or deter the attacker. Unless, of course, the attacker was not a Hollow..

2) Grand Fisher didn't remember Masaki or Ichigo
It was only able to recreate Masaki's form after extracting the memory from Ichigo. This may or may not be important.

3) Isshin regrets not being able to save her - at a different time?
The translators notes here make me wonder if they were wrong to second guess Kubo like that. Perhaps there's a good reason for this seemingly inconsistent line.
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v22/c188/9.html

Nov 13, 2012 10:07 AM

#216

Candor123

Offline

Oct 2011

5600

Zogundar said:
In light of this new revelation, I went back and checked some old chapters that might be relevant.

1) We don't see Grand Fisher kill Masaki
If it had been Grand Fisher, why didn't it eat both her and Ichigo? We're to believe it killed her, left her body, left Ichigo, and then left the scene? At the very least someone had to have interfered to make him retreat. Unlikely to have been Isshin based on his later confrontation with Grand Fisher. I guess it COULD have been Masaki herself, (We have no way of knowing her strength level) but the way she seemed to be shielding Ichigo suggests to me a last resort that still requires the presence of some outside assistance to actually defeat or deter the attacker. Unless, of course, the attacker was not a Hollow..

2) Grand Fisher didn't remember Masaki or Ichigo
It was only able to recreate Masaki's form after extracting the memory from Ichigo. This may or may not be important.

3) Isshin regrets not being able to save her - at a different time?
The translators notes here make me wonder if they were wrong to second guess Kubo like that. Perhaps there's a good reason for this seemingly inconsistent line.
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v22/c188/9.html

In the early spoilers Kubo mentioned he'll talk about something like "the truth behind Masaki's death", so yea there's something like that to it, also, the same page you're talking about was in the early spoilers, here it is (the first page of the early spoilers, the part you're talking about is at the end):

On another note, from that same page Grand Fisher said that Ichigo's father is a shinigami, so either Bach was a shinigami or he's not Ichigo's father, Isshin is. Or it's something more than that.

Candor123Nov 13, 2012 10:15 AM

Nov 20, 2012 8:38 AM

#217

Melike

Offline

Feb 2011

104

1 there is shinigami on this manga, and look Ichigo is one...
2 there is hollow on this manga, and ohh Ichigo can be one too...
3 there is visard on this manga, and in conclusion to 1 and 2 Ichigo is one too...
4 there is fullbringers on this manga, and why not, Ichigo can do it...
5 there is quincy on this manga, and he is not one, huh, i can not believe it, can he be one?, hmm, can he be??? Apearently he can...

WHYYY Kubo, is Ichigo freaking everything? i can not keep up with this plot rumble, my creative self is crying :(

Nov 24, 2012 9:22 AM

#218

robertomelchor

Offline

Dec 2008

1193

Well played Kubo, I don't fell that he is actually Ichigo's father maybe grandfather. It seems that Ichigo's mom fell in love and ran away with her shinigami lover to the real world and tried to start a new life.

Dec 23, 2012 7:46 PM

#219

xxanxus

Offline

Aug 2011

115

Right.... awesome chapter but i am still confused...So Juha Bach is ichigo's father? was his mother also a Quincy... so how is he a shinigami amongst other things? D:

Apr 8, 2013 3:46 PM

#220

dextronaut

Offline

Jan 2013

327

ichigo: "after you just shit on soul society.
Do you fucks really think I'll let you leave unscathed..?"
hahaha the first sentence is classic comedy gold.
interesting...Im sure Juha's not his father..

Jun 4, 2013 5:48 AM

#221

Shirubaasouru

Offline

May 2012

1998

Strawberry's t-t-tousan? lol

Isayama Hajime should be awarded The Manga with The Highest Inconsistencies of Characters' Appearances.
He keeps performing multiple plastic surgeries on those Shingeki No Kyojin characters in a SINGLE chapter.
Yes, I've read up to the latest chapter of Shingeki No Kyojin manga.
Forced myself to read through the kidsketching chapters after the anime's ended. At least from now on, I only have to go through the hell once a month.
Patiently awaiting SNK TV/movie/OVA anime-sequel.
The 2015 SNK live-action movie would probably suck.

May 23, 2014 2:51 AM

#222

Saskee

Offline

Oct 2013

3072

More,more,more,more,more,more....

May 7, 2015 7:02 AM

#223

PriestSlayer

Offline

Dec 2013

6607

Wtf I just read.

FragOutFire said:

Why am I a Berserk fan? All I ever experience is pain.

We are in the eclipse and Miura has sacrificed us

May 7, 2015 7:03 AM

#224

Jousuke

Offline

Aug 2013

1621

PriestSlayer said:
Wtf I just read.

Bleach Chapter 514

Sep 14, 2016 5:02 AM

#225

srafayms

Offline

Jun 2016

903

Not sure how Ichigo got quincy powers and who was her mother, i guess they'll explain later.

Jun 8, 2017 11:45 AM

#226

Ulquiorra

Offline

Feb 2013

24141

So his mother was a Quincy.

Oct 29, 2022 6:42 PM

#227

Rexnihilo

Offline

Oct 2020

4704

So Aizen managed to affect Juha enough to save the day.

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