Free Will

Oct 25, 2008 5:24 PM

Offline

Nov 2007

455

That's side effects of physical traits (indirectly) What i was referring to was direct influence of genes on the personality.

AzamatOct 25, 2008 5:38 PM

"Sanity is overrated."

Oct 25, 2008 5:25 PM

#102

Inactivity

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Oct 2008

542

"The only thing you pointed out was that my statement was a (i'd say minor) generalization of the concept free will."

That's one thing I was trying to get at for a while. I'm glad it took us this many posts.

The next part is a consequence of that.

Since it is now admittedly a generalization (<-----), it shouldn't be used to try to discredit the concept of free will.

"And your description of "Innatism" (which you so kindly added later on) is kinda vague and biased (in a sugar-coated way) avoiding the absolutely corny thesis of the philosophy."

It is vague for you because it is unfamiliar. I am not here to define such topics or terms for you, just to reference them. It is up to you to look them up, which you did.

I am in fact an atheist, so the idea of a God instilling his presence in an individual at the moment of or before birth is something I don't believe in. So the bias you speak of is actually humorous. I'd like to be so haughty as to describe myself as a freethinker. If anything, I am predisposed to not believe in anything related to a religious text. I simply brought it up to take another perspective on the whole idea of free will and determinism. Though, I would like to say, it almost seems like Innatism, while not being effected from experience, it still the effect of a cause. For if you believe in a God, then he would be the cause himself in this case.

I simply referenced the knowledge of a higher being as well. While you have to be nurtured in what this entails itself, I would assume that those who believe in Innatism in reference to a higher being would generally lead you along a path that would ensure his presence as an ethical, good, and logical being.

If you want to go to sleep, then exercise you free will and do so, or be a tool of determinism and do likewise.

InactivityOct 25, 2008 5:40 PM

Oct 25, 2008 11:49 PM

#103

Sick_Bastard

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Jun 2008

15714

If there was no evil, then being with God wouldn't be a choice - it would just be a given. God gave us free will so that we could choose to accept him, or not too. If you just created a billion people and made them worship you without their will, how would that feel? But if you made a billion people then and then 300,000 of them worshiped you on their own free will, how much better would that be? Without bad, good has nothing to contrast itself against, therefore if God didn't create Satan, we wouldn't be able to understand how truly awesome he is in all his ways, and divinely perfect.

I'm back.

Oct 26, 2008 2:14 AM

#104

removed-user

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Jul 2018

564491

Sick-Bastard said:
Without bad, good has nothing to contrast itself against, therefore if God didn't create Satan, we wouldn't be able to understand how truly awesome he is in all his ways, and divinely perfect.

So...Satan is God's ugly friend who he stands next to in order to make himself look prettier?

Oct 26, 2008 3:08 AM

#105

Cloudy

Offline

Jul 2007

2780

Sick-Bastard said:
If there was no evil, then being with God wouldn't be a choice - it would just be a given. God gave us free will so that we could choose to accept him, or not too. If you just created a billion people and made them worship you without their will, how would that feel? But if you made a billion people then and then 300,000 of them worshiped you on their own free will, how much better would that be? Without bad, good has nothing to contrast itself against, therefore if God didn't create Satan, we wouldn't be able to understand how truly awesome he is in all his ways, and divinely perfect.

Sorry but this is nosense... Since Gods knows whos gonna believe in him and whos not he doesnt need good or bad or anything.In addition as God is a perfect spirit/being or whatever he doesnt feel anything so he doesnt need followers so he doesnt want good or evil.Also good and evil dont exist.It always depends in the circumstances and the way you grow up as a child along with your beliefs.What regards the free wil now. Personally i believe that we have free will to a certain point.Also the more intelligent some1 is the "bigger" hes free will is.For example growing into a really religious family makes you believe in god since the age of 5.Thats not exactly your "free will" since u was made to believe that way.Personally what i would define as "free will" is for someone to able to take a choise with the less possible restrictions.For example someone wants to eat meat on Sunday but he cant due to hes religion.That somewhat binds hes "free will". Well i dont believe i sayed what exactly i had in mind since my english are not thay good :( Hope you understood my basic point of view though

Oct 26, 2008 3:42 AM

#106

LEGENDOFTHEAEIOU

Offline

Jul 2008

876

But hey, when you're an omnipotent being who's going to be around for the next hundred trillion years, why not play around with little people?

LEGENDOFTHEGALACTICHEROESLEGENDOFTHEGALACTI
LEGENDOFTHEGALACTICHEROESLEGENDOFTHEGALACTI
LEGENDOFTHEGALACTICHEROESLEGENDOFTHEGALACTI

Oct 26, 2008 11:05 AM

#107

Baman

Offline

Feb 2005

13573

Shermstyle23 said:
It can be proven that a determinism exists as every act has a reason, but can you prove or disprove the existence of free will?

I would say it's not as much about disproving it as it is about disregarding it. Occams Razor always helps. No need to assume something exists when there's no empirical evidence to support it, is there?

Sick-Bastard said:
If there was no evil,

well, there isn't. Simple as that. As a certain famous William wrote: "There is no such thing as good and evil. Thinking makes it so." It's nothing but a manmade concept.

Also, why are we dragging all manners of gods, demons and other fictional creatures into the debate? Unsporting, that's what that is.

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