I'll never understand the mentality of those who hate the alliance.

Alphonae said:
Wtf guys.
I'm gone for a day and the next thing I see, you people are having a war of your own here

WigoSas said:

It's not that they don't have hope to discuss, it's that they didn't even bother to try. They supposed Eren was going to destroy the world, so they prepared for it. They supposed he was going to do the rumbling, so they asked for other nations' help

Marley tried to retrieve the founding titan only because Grisha entered Paradis, menacing the status quo. They couldn't enter the country because of the risk of the rumbling from the royal family, but Eren disrupted the equilibrium and took control of the founding titan, putting at risk humanity's existence as he could activate rumbling whenever he wanted.

Then, how can you expect sympathy from someone if you can't show it for him? Literally eldians have the potential to be killing machine, even if they don't want it. Titan are difficult to kill so average people would stand no chance against them and also the eldian empire has enslaved all the world for 2 thousand years, how can you expect the rest of the world to be ok with them? With that kind of argument no one gets want they want.

"The hopeless pacifist" have the possibility that no one gets to risk their lifes. If Paradis got an agreement with the world (not just Marley), the world wouldn't have a reason to fear eldians anymore as they could control the titan question and nobody become a titan. Instead they chose not to confront anyone, out of fear, hate and whatever, and war broke out. All because they feared and hated, instead of being rational

UkRs said:
alliance is basically made up of people who betrayed their own people.. and that's about it..

They are traitors killing their own people because they consider their own people to be of less value than of others..

aktiwkunn said:
People who like the alliance are the people who'll most likely stab their own army in the back if they're at a war with another nation because "War Bad"

Gloomy-eyes said:
Literally the declaration of war declaimed this opinion. Diplomacy failed and war is the only choice left. It’s not an “easy” choice, it’s the only one

Ryuukou said:
The people in the alliance are probably only doing this so that they can feel good about themselves after the ton of terrible shit they've done and only to save their families outside the wall and not for the sake of humanity, they're just a bunch of hypocrites.

Akitokamisen said:
I don't hate the alliance but I cannot agree with alliance in any form
They don't have solution to the problem, if they did I doubt this topic would have ever come into existence

1Kyo said:

This topic came into existence because people don't understand the solution the alliance is suggesting. They have a solution to the problem, and a good one at that.

The yeagerists are the ones that can't provide a solution. Some people on here don't even dare think what would come after the genocide, imagining it will magically result in utopia after just a couple days of screaming. How would the people behave after a successful rumbling? Who's going to be in charge of Paradis politically afterwards? These things don't just randomly fall into place after such an event.

Genocide will result in an ideological conflict on Paradis, creating a deep societal divide amidst a political power struggle that would provide infinite potential for further altercations.

1Kyo said:
Just want to mention this ideological conflict shouldn't even be controversial. Eren is wrong and the alliance is right, and there's not even a single argument that could end in Eren's favor. This discussion should have been unanimous and it's very concerning that it isn't.

I look at this thread and pray that you people are actually just ignorant or didn't understand the story, and not anything worse. Many of the arguments on here sound like they come straight from the nazi regime.


This is the kind of post I'd imagine on a yeagerist propaganda poster.


You literally quoted Hitler's stab-in-the-back myth. It's that kind of thinking that was part of the birth of his regime. Not sure if that's the kind of thinking you want to preach.


A war, as in the battle for the founding titan, was indeed necessary and unavoidable. There was not an opportune moment for diplomacy.

But everything starting from the moment Eldia won with Eren obtaining the founding, war was no longer necessary. Diplomacy became an option, and also the most likely for preventing further conflict.


You make it sound like it's unusual for people to do good things because they want to feel good about themselves. Like it's a bad thing. It's not hypocritical, it's human nature. I'd argue there is no bad reason to attempt saving billions of lives.

Gloomy-eyes said:
The only diplomacy they have, is Zeke’s false plan of 50 years. If you have such moral high ground then go on and support that since it’s the best plan given to Paradis. No one suffers but Historia. But hey, looks like Eren is clearly irrational and hateful towards the world that he outright rejected it. Gosh, the moral high ground when it’s come to survival is obnoxious. Perhaps you should realize you are the only one ignorant here. EveRyOne’s OpiNion iS liKe NazI. Does that come from a retarded sub?

Akitokamisen said:
OH?? what is that solution (do not say the 50 year plan or zeke's plan or resolution by discussion)

k0rvus said:

But at the beginning, they were not at all in the majority. It was a small sub-sect of the army that literally assassinated its high-ranking officers. That is treason by definition.

1Kyo said:


It absolutely is the 50 year plan. It is the 100% correct decision.

When Eren managed to obtain the founding titan, Paradis became a global superpower that no other nation would dare to declare war on, until they have geared up enough to stand on equal grounds again. This would roughly take 50 years, creating tons of opportunities to establish diplomatic relations in order to clear the Eldian image. This is the alliance's (or at least, the Armin/Hange part's) plan.

Now why do you guys believe this plan would not work out? Because the rest of the world would eventually attack Paradis again after they caught up militarily? Now, the reason they even gear up in the first place is to restore the power balance. Without power balance, Paradis basically holds them at gunpoint.

Now after a 50 year-long cold war-ish period, after finally restoring the power balance, do you really think they would risk it all just for a chance of dethroning the global superpower?

Would the rest of the world unanimously decide to sacrifice millions of lives, crippling their economy in the process, just to take that chance?

Especially if Paradis never abused their military superiority to exploit other countries even once in those 50 years, would they even be considered a danger worth the risks of an all-out war?

Would they risk that feeling of safety, of finally being able to defend themselves, of finally being able to hold their ground against Paradis, for warfare against a country that has gone through so many diplomatic efforts to establish peace?

I'll let you guys answer that one.

Alphonae said:
Are you implying that the people of paradis have a greater right to live than those living outside the walls? Despite the fact that both groups are victims of war.

I'm not even gonna beat around the bush anymore.

If you're this deep into the story and still look at it through an "Us" Vs "Them" lens, you're an embarrassment.

I understand not liking the plot armour, I understand thinking the pacing is clanky, I understand disliking the sudden change in pace, but I'll never understand being mad at the alliance for not wanting people to die. Especially considering the fact that Paradis is safe for atleast a century by this point.

Edit- I'm not neccessarily saying you *should* like the alliance, nor am I saying you should dislike the yeagerists.

All I'm saying is why hold such a narrow-minded outlook on the show. Both sides are just fighting for what they believe is correct. As simple as that.

1Kyo said:


It absolutely is the 50 year plan. It is the 100% correct decision.

When Eren managed to obtain the founding titan, Paradis became a global superpower that no other nation would dare to declare war on, until they have geared up enough to stand on equal grounds again. This would roughly take 50 years, creating tons of opportunities to establish diplomatic relations in order to clear the Eldian image. This is the alliance's (or at least, the Armin/Hange part's) plan.

Now why do you guys believe this plan would not work out? Because the rest of the world would eventually attack Paradis again after they caught up militarily? Now, the reason they even gear up in the first place is to restore the power balance. Without power balance, Paradis basically holds them at gunpoint.

Now after a 50 year-long cold war-ish period, after finally restoring the power balance, do you really think they would risk it all just for a chance of dethroning the global superpower?

Would the rest of the world unanimously decide to sacrifice millions of lives, crippling their economy in the process, just to take that chance?

Especially if Paradis never abused their military superiority to exploit other countries even once in those 50 years, would they even be considered a danger worth the risks of an all-out war?

Would they risk that feeling of safety, of finally being able to defend themselves, of finally being able to hold their ground against Paradis, for warfare against a country that has gone through so many diplomatic efforts to establish peace?

I'll let you guys answer that one.

ft45 said:

Yes, but those killings were righteous.
After all, Erwin wouldn't have hesitated to kill when he was overthrowing the monarchy, had they put any resistance.

WigoSas said:


Much of our discussion seems to come to the fact that we see Marleyans differently, I suppose you're thinking that they ALL hate eldians and that their grief and fears aren't as valuable as endians'. It seems you can't even consider them to receive human respect as they are the enemies and they aren't capable to come to an agreement with eldians.


---Dumping Eldians inside camp and use them as biological weapon.

That's the point, if they couldn't transform into titans, they would have never been treated like that. In the right hands, eldian lifes can be weapons of mass destruction and that's why they call them the devil's sons, as the fact they can be titans nullifies their humanity. That is unacceptable but it is normal that it happened.

---The fact that you said that they sent kids there to retrieve FT because of Grisha tells me that you completely forget what happened in the story. How did they even know he was inside the walls in the first place?

The owl fckin destroyed the port and killed all the people present there. They noticed something was missing and when discovered the owl was a spy they deduced what happened, they knew someone entered Paradis.
And yes, the effort to take the founding titans was made because they knew someone was gonna mess with the royal family, eventually it happened. If I'm not wrong marley's infiltration squad (Annie, Bertold, Reiner and the guy) was the first attempt to retrieve the ft

---Lmao their lives have been doomed by these people for so long and about to get genocided, and if a retaliation is deemed as irrational perhaps they should not have doomed them in the first place

It goes both ways obviously, it is expected a reaction like the jaegerist but it isn't excusable. It's not like if a country invaded yours, you are free to kill anybody from that country. Marley has its fault at wanting to exterminate eldians without discussion but jaegerist are wrong in trying to exterminate all of the world without discussion (they literally had the opportunity to open to the world but the first thing the eldian goverment did was to open themselves to one country to improve military and then isolate)

In fact im not in marley or eldia's favour, rather i'm with the alliance because that's what we should strive for. We should always try to negotiate with other people instead of using the excuse: "He attacked me, so I will attack"

Alphonae said:
Are you implying that the people of paradis have a greater right to live than those living outside the walls? Despite the fact that both groups are victims of war.

I'm not even gonna beat around the bush anymore.

If you're this deep into the story and still look at it through an "Us" Vs "Them" lens, you're an embarrassment.

I understand not liking the plot armour, I understand thinking the pacing is clanky, I understand disliking the sudden change in pace, but I'll never understand being mad at the alliance for not wanting people to die. Especially considering the fact that Paradis is safe for atleast a century by this point.

Edit- I'm not neccessarily saying you *should* like the alliance, nor am I saying you should dislike the yeagerists.

All I'm saying is why hold such a narrow-minded outlook on the show. Both sides are just fighting for what they believe is correct. As simple as that.

nexuro01 said:
Well, the only characters for which it would make sense to work with alliance are Armin, Hanji and Mikasa. Mikasa with intention to backstab them the moment they mean any harm to Eren that is.

nexuro01 said:
Well, the only characters for which it would make sense to work with alliance are Armin, Hanji and Mikasa. Mikasa with intention to backstab them the moment they mean any harm to Eren that is.

k0rvus said:
These two situations could not be more different. What Erwin did differently during his overthrowing was arresting the members of the government who were literally guilty of crimes. Meanwhile, the Yaegerists killed nearly every high-ranking officer without ever even giving them a chance to resist AND who were not guilty of crimes and/or in power under false premises.

ft45 said:

Talking to you about this is like talking to 12 yr old, which I hope you're not.

Erwin didn't had to resort to killing due to the plot. Meanwhile, the plot is working against Yaegerists by showing them as evil. Truth is, they did what they had to do to seize the power. They had to go to extreme means because no one would relinquish power, no matter what unless they are forced to. And you can actually say that those officers are guilty of crimes (from Yaegerists POV obviously), by endangering the island because muh morality. They are perfectly justified in executing whoever goes out of line because it would endanger them all. Also, you don't give your enemies a chance to resist. That would be foolish.

First off, they were not "endangering the island," unless you consider not committing full-scale genocide as the only means to not do this (which it is not). There's a difference between them personally endangering the island vs the island simply being endangered.

Secondly, even if they DID endanger the island, that is quite literally not a crime. The Yaegerists would view it as wrong and unbefitting of leaders, but it is not a crime. Conversely, one of the main reasons that the original government leaders were able to be publicly ousted was because they were previously very publicly exposed to have ordered the murder of an innocent man. This is a literal crime. "Endangering the island" is not a crime, and is certainly not one that warrants a death penalty, especially for those who were only vaguely involved in the decision-making and were unnamed characters of the lower-end of the high-rank.

And you really need to make up your mind on whether or not Erwin would take these same actions. You claim that it's foolish to give your enemies a chance to resist, yet Erwin did just that by arresting the government officials rather than executing them. We have contextual and relevant evidence of him acting in polar opposition to how you believe he would. Saying that it's just this way because of the plot is not at all a valid argument. Do you think you know these characters better than Isayama himself? Because he wrote them to act in these ways. The Yaegerists are written to seem evil because they are literally attempting to exterminate every race on the planet but their own in an act of genocide. That is evil, no matter the reasoning behind the intended action.

The Yaegerists are written to seem evil because they are literally attempting to exterminate every race on the planet but their own in an act of genocide. That is evil, no matter the reasoning behind the intended action.