| Shouldn't be criticizing sexual violence in a made up medium to begin with. Start the argument there instead. The hypocrisy and flaws of the modern feminist (industry)movement have already been well documented. Don't need to reach this far to point that out. Just need to move to humanism already, and biggest thing that needs fixing is the divorce/family court issues that are basically ripping families apart all so the lawyers can profit. In fact, marriage shouldn't even be a legal institution. Can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would want to sign a contract (except for women who seem to benefit greatly by it in the divorce). Aside from divorce courts men and women actually have more or less equal rights at this point. (and don't start with the equal pay, men work harder, work longer, work more dangerous jobs on average and they negotiate better) What it comes down to is privilege. Females have an enormous amount of privilege compared to men (hello suicide, drug abuse, violence, jail time, homelessness, not to mention females are just protected and cared about more as a gender naturally, and have natural sexual power which they've monopolized). American women are the most privileged class of human beings to ever exist outside of nobility and somehow they manage to whine the loudest about how hard they have it. Its obnoxious and its unsightly. |
LayedBackJun 23, 2017 11:57 AM
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AstZero said: EriitoSenshi said: You know something? Anime and hentai are drawings. The UN isn't gonna attack something that isn't real. If Japanese real life shows had sexual violence then that would be a problem. But they did that like.. Couple of days ago xD. Well Japan needs to tell them that these are just drawings and shouldn't be attacked unless the real life Japanese shows do the same. |
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| Here we fucking go with the "un" again... They don't have any power! |
EriitoSenshi said: Well Japan needs to tell them that these are just drawings and shouldn't be attacked unless the real life Japanese shows do the same. Well the Japanese representative actually had some brains and of course refused them so yeah. |
| The beauty of humans is that they say one thing then do another, but at the same time that can also be their ugliest side. |
| I pray the Japanese don't bend to this ridiculous movement of censorship that is cascading across the western world. There should be absolutely no censorship or restructuring of any future animes for the soul reason that the slippery slope we are on is real. Feminists and other SJW are chipping away at what people can say, do, think, and watch. I love ecchi and loli stuff because it allows me to keep that fucked caveman part of myself locked up inside my head. I have been raised properly to know that I cannot have sex with a child and that I cannot commit sexual violence against my partner. Too many people overestimate the effect of environmental psychology upon ones behaviours. |
LayedBack said: Shouldn't be criticizing sexual violence in a made up medium to begin with. Start the argument there instead. The hypocrisy and flaws of the modern feminist (industry)movement have already been well documented. Don't need to reach this far to point that out. Just need to move to humanism already, and biggest thing that needs fixing is the divorce/family court issues that are basically ripping families apart all so the lawyers can profit. In fact, marriage shouldn't even be a legal institution. Can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would want to sign a contract (except for women who seem to benefit greatly by it in the divorce). Aside from divorce courts men and women actually have more or less equal rights at this point. (and don't start with the equal pay, men work harder, work longer, work more dangerous jobs on average and they negotiate better) What it comes down to is privilege. Females have an enormous amount of privilege compared to men (hello suicide, drug abuse, violence, jail time, homelessness, not to mention females are just protected and cared about more as a gender naturally, and have natural sexual power which they've monopolized). American women are the most privileged class of human beings to ever exist outside of nobility and somehow they manage to whine the loudest about how hard they have it. Its obnoxious and its unsightly. Happy to see someone else here who has been red pilled. |
Lohuydahutt said: Nyu said: My point was, that Affirmative Action was used to push one Gender outta of Higher Education, under the guise of Equality. Who can say this won't happen throughout the Western Europe, or North America? Affirmative Action being abused like this, then suddenly turned off the minute it discriminates against women is not a positive thing, it would've been a positive thing if it stayed active long enough to Equalise the amount of students as 50% male & 50% female. Crazies on YouTube? Common feminist tactic, to blame everything on radicals, when it's the majority of Feminism that is the problem. Mainstream Feminism supports Systemic Discrimination (Affirmative Action) & Censorship (like when the UN Women tried to ban Anime/Media portraying sexual violence in Japan, twice. Well, if affirmative action is shut off now in Sweden, wouldn't it logically follow that the male to female ratio will start evening out for all the new applicants? Every one's on an equal playing field now after all. Or perhaps, gasp, more women apply to college than men in the first place over there. Why is that the case? Well, perhaps because women are a slight majority in the population and tend to be more interested in careers that require a college degree than men are these days? I guarantee you that if every student in Sweden that applied in a given year got accepted there would still be more females than males by a decent margin. That's just how it is now. OK, I live in a pretty liberal city, and none of the feminists I personally encountered give a shit about anime or affirmative action. Are they not main stream feminists? How the fuck am I supposed to judge that? I don't think you have a good way to judge what the "majority" of feminists think and I don't either. Do you have scientific polling of self-identified feminists and asked them all if they want to ban hentai? In my view, people who identify as feminists have a very wide range of beliefs, and talking about them like they're some monolith that agrees with each other on everything just shows a blatant disregard of nuance. Ah well. Gender discrimination against men when it comes to college acceptances is not currently a problem in the United States of America. That is the narrow statement I originally made, and you did not refute it. I was not arguing about Sweden. I was not arguing about the merits of affirmative action as a whole. I did not begin this argument debating the viewpoints of mainstream feminists. This conversation has veered off into weird directions that I don't really care about. You think feminism is a scourge on society or whatever, all power to you. I don't personally feel oppressed by feminism, and I don't need you to convince me that I should feel oppressed. Fair enough? You can say you won the argument or whatever because I'm done here. Affirmative Action was only banned in Universities, not anywhere else in Sweden, this was because it was discriminating against women, who are innocent victims and not men. Affirmative Action was helping men, since women took over higher education, so the inequality will only grow. Women live longer than men, that's why they are the majority, so no, there aren't more women apply than men. Mainstream feminist organizations support Censorship & Affirmative Action. Factually, men are oppressed in the West. @AstZero You've added a lot of good discussion to the thread, thanks. |
AnimeLover6051 said: myengisbad said: oh god you are the most retarded person i saw in my life did you even read what you sad Is that all you have to say? Can you at least say what make me so retarded as you say? If you don't reply with a reason why you think I'm retarded, that means you are the retarded one. He was talking about your narrow minded view, that because it's male on male rape, implying it's a non issue. |
| jfc don't tell me this is another "I hate yaoi" shit thread again. |
 |
Nyu said: Lohuydahutt said: Well, if affirmative action is shut off now in Sweden, wouldn't it logically follow that the male to female ratio will start evening out for all the new applicants? Every one's on an equal playing field now after all. Or perhaps, gasp, more women apply to college than men in the first place over there. Why is that the case? Well, perhaps because women are a slight majority in the population and tend to be more interested in careers that require a college degree than men are these days? I guarantee you that if every student in Sweden that applied in a given year got accepted there would still be more females than males by a decent margin. That's just how it is now. OK, I live in a pretty liberal city, and none of the feminists I personally encountered give a shit about anime or affirmative action. Are they not main stream feminists? How the fuck am I supposed to judge that? I don't think you have a good way to judge what the "majority" of feminists think and I don't either. Do you have scientific polling of self-identified feminists and asked them all if they want to ban hentai? In my view, people who identify as feminists have a very wide range of beliefs, and talking about them like they're some monolith that agrees with each other on everything just shows a blatant disregard of nuance. Ah well. Gender discrimination against men when it comes to college acceptances is not currently a problem in the United States of America. That is the narrow statement I originally made, and you did not refute it. I was not arguing about Sweden. I was not arguing about the merits of affirmative action as a whole. I did not begin this argument debating the viewpoints of mainstream feminists. This conversation has veered off into weird directions that I don't really care about. You think feminism is a scourge on society or whatever, all power to you. I don't personally feel oppressed by feminism, and I don't need you to convince me that I should feel oppressed. Fair enough? You can say you won the argument or whatever because I'm done here. Affirmative Action was only banned in Universities, not anywhere else in Sweden, this was because it was discriminating against women, who are innocent victims and not men. Affirmative Action was helping men, since women took over higher education, so the inequality will only grow. Women live longer than men, that's why they are the majority, so no, there aren't more women apply than men. Mainstream feminist organizations support Censorship & Affirmative Action. Factually, men are oppressed in the West. *sigh* well, I got some sleep so whatever. OK, you hate feminists and you probably hate PC culture in general. Fine, but as you valiantly fight against the snowflakes... you just sound like a right wing snowflake. If you assert shit confidently I'm not going to automatically believe you. Men make up a majority of pretty much all political positions pretty much every where, and make up a majority of almost every other position that has any power. If some of these men comply with the big bad feminists maybe it's not because they just want to keep their own gender down. As far as the university thing goes, do you not realize you're contradicting yourself? You just said that there are not more women applying than men, but the male to female ratio will continue to become more lopsided? If there is no affirmative action, and 6 women get into a university for every 4 men or whatever, then how the hell does that happen if the same number of women and men are applying? If it's an entirely merit based system, and the same amount of women and men are applying, then there should be an equal number getting in from now on. Getting rid of affirmative action when it started benefiting guys=/=affirmative action in favor of women. Either women will continue to dominate higher education because more of them apply, or the same number of men and women apply but there's affirmative action in favor of women. The second one cannot be possible because affirmative action is banned. Why else would females continue to dominate higher education? Because females get better grades on average? There has to be some reason there are more females than males in higher education, and your answer makes no sense. If the same number of males and females are applying and their academic performance is equal, then there would be no need for affirmative action in either direction, period. I know you want to come up with reasons to feel disadvantaged but make a consistent argument please. As for the main point of the thread, raping women is bad, raping guys is bad. Females get raped more often than males on average, and male rape cases tend to get under-reported (these two things are not mutually exclusive). As such, female rape gets more attention, and people try to fight against that more. That's just how it is. No, I do not think hentai depicting rape should be censored in any instance, I would like to make myself clear. I don't think any one here is in support of banning that kind of hentai, so you're basically just trying to start an argument with an echo chamber. It feels like you're basically just using some subject loosely related to anime as an excuse to shit on feminism. Do you not have anything better to discuss on an anime site? |
AnimeLover6051 said: myengisbad said: oh god you are the most retarded person i saw in my life did you even read what you sad Is that all you have to say? Can you at least say what make me so retarded as you say? If you don't reply with a reason why you think I'm retarded, that means you are the retarded one. "Yeah, but yaoi is not about rape, it's about love, or at least it should be, and if it's about rape, is between a man and a men, not a man is raped by a women. " Implying that you have zero fucking idea what you are talking about. And i already told you but your retarded ass doesn't seem to want to prove how stupid you are so i'll tell you again. " Between a man and a man , not a man is raped by a woman" You fucking retarded? Or maybe you don't realise that both glorify sexual violence against men? The way you say it seems like if a man rapes another man then it's not sexual violence against men. Which makes you immensely stupid. There ya go. That part right there is what makes you retarded. PS: Yaoi is trash. |
AstZeroJun 28, 2017 6:35 AM
| The beauty of humans is that they say one thing then do another, but at the same time that can also be their ugliest side. |
| Generally confused on what this thread is supposed to be about. I thought that most anime fans are anti censorship in anime even when it's comes to sexual violence since the sexual violence is happening to 2-D fictional characters who aren't real so feminists shouldn't try to censorship it. People have a problem with feminists not trying to censorship sexual violence towards men in anime? I do understand how hypocritical it is trying to censorship sexual violence towards women, but not men in anime. I guess I understand this thread when it's comes to this, but at the same time wouldn't anime fans still complain about feminists trying to censor anime even if feminists where trying to censor sexual violence in anime, regardless of gender? |
imbricator said: Yaoi is about female self-insertion much of the time Yuri is never a channel for male self-insertion and is truly about two females Male/male relationships are a response to female oppression through cultural sexism https://fanlore.org/wiki/Why_Slash Slash is transgressive Bara and yuri are not Just noticed OP is Nyu, he's constantly making threads like this. He's obsessed with female portrayals in anime through a non-gender equality perspective, probably because no female has ever showed interest in him before. Likes to flame. Yaoi is yaoi, oppression Olympics are outdated. And it just happens that Yaoi has sexual violence in it, a thing feminists criticise all the time, if it happens to women in fiction. This thread clearly points out a feminist double standard. How does this thread have anything to do with female portrayal? probably because no female has ever showed interest in him before Great counter argument. Starting discussion on topics you happen to dislike is not flaming. |
| Come on, now you realise there are huge double standards? Heck some laws are so strictly defined that essentially only man on woman cases are considered rape. |
| I'm not a lolicon, you're just projecting your tendency to lewd 2D characters. If your favourite character is Tsutsukakushi Tsukiko, you are my soul mate. Been a long time since I've been here, I'll continue expressing myself freely and believe everyone should too. My MAL Interview |
| feminists and women have been criticising rape and sexual violence in yaoi since forever unlike whiny babies like you who keep crying "i can't watch women get raped in my anime anymore!!!" it's not their fault that your ignorant meninist ass chooses to ignore that |
imbricator said: Yaoi is about female self-insertion much of the time Yuri is never a channel for male self-insertion and is truly about two females Male/male relationships are a response to female oppression through cultural sexism https://fanlore.org/wiki/Why_Slash Slash is transgressive Bara and yuri are not Just noticed OP is Nyu, he's constantly making threads like this. He's obsessed with female portrayals in anime through a non-gender equality perspective, probably because no female has ever showed interest in him before. Likes to flame. True facts. Also UN has no power. I am a feminist and anti censorship and a lot of feminists actually are. And yeah Nyu is really really into making these threads. lol Go look at Fanfiction.net. Most of the writers are women. Go read a Erotica. The writers are women. Women are interested in porn fun facts. They are normally not aligned with the obnoxious end of the feminist movement. |
The anime community in a nutshell.  |
zaso said: feminists and women have been criticising rape and sexual violence in yaoi since forever unlike whiny babies like you who keep crying "i can't watch women get raped in my anime anymore!!!" it's not their fault that your ignorant meninist ass chooses to ignore that Considering Feminists tried to ban the portrayal of Sexual violence against women in Anime/Media, twice, I doubt feminists care that much about Yaoi. Jonouchi-Katsuya said: imbricator said: Yaoi is about female self-insertion much of the time Yuri is never a channel for male self-insertion and is truly about two females Male/male relationships are a response to female oppression through cultural sexism https://fanlore.org/wiki/Why_Slash Slash is transgressive Bara and yuri are not Just noticed OP is Nyu, he's constantly making threads like this. He's obsessed with female portrayals in anime through a non-gender equality perspective, probably because no female has ever showed interest in him before. Likes to flame. True facts. Also UN has no power. I am a feminist and anti censorship and a lot of feminists actually are. And yeah Nyu is really really into making these threads. lol Go look at Fanfiction.net. Most of the writers are women. Go read a Erotica. The writers are women. Women are interested in porn fun facts. They are normally not aligned with the obnoxious end of the feminist movement. The UN does have power, they may not be able to change the law directly, but they can pressure Japan into making changes. Most feminists & feminist organizations support censorship. |
| https://myanimelist.net/anime/5316/Rape_Rape_Rape?q=rape%20rape%20rape This hentai exists. https://myanimelist.net/anime/32667/Baka_na_Imouto_wo_Rikou_ni_Suru_no_wa_Ore_no_xx_dake_na_Ken_ni_Tsuite?q=baka%20na%20imo https://myanimelist.net/anime/3747/Inyouchuu_The_Animation?q=%20Inyouchuu%20The%20Animation And who can forget this classic? https://myanimelist.net/anime/2351/Pigeon_Blood?q=Pigeon%20blood Go watch Pigeon Blood and tell me if ANYTHING exists in the yaoi animated catalog which is worse. And I say it has the right to exist because well why not. The most hardcore Title Yaoi has is Enzai. https://myanimelist.net/anime/724/Enzai?q=Enzai |
Energetic-NovaJun 26, 2017 1:11 AM
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
| And don't act like ecchi also doesn't promote "sexual violence against men" https://myanimelist.net/anime/3503/Kanokon?q=Kanokon https://myanimelist.net/anime/3455/To_LOVE-Ru?q=to%20love%20 https://myanimelist.net/anime/1195/Zero_no_Tsukaima https://myanimelist.net/anime/8424/MM https://myanimelist.net/anime/32/Neon_Genesis_Evangelion__The_End_of_Evangelion?q=end%20of%20evangelion Yup. all of these have sexual violence against men. WHY SINGLE OUT YAOI? |
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
Jonouchi-Katsuya said: And don't act like ecchi also doesn't promote "sexual violence against men" https://myanimelist.net/anime/3503/Kanokon?q=Kanokon https://myanimelist.net/anime/3455/To_LOVE-Ru?q=to%20love%20 https://myanimelist.net/anime/1195/Zero_no_Tsukaima https://myanimelist.net/anime/8424/MM https://myanimelist.net/anime/32/Neon_Genesis_Evangelion__The_End_of_Evangelion?q=end%20of%20evangelion Yup. all of these have sexual violence against men. WHY SINGLE OUT YAOI? I mentioned Ecchi in my OP. This Thread is just pointing out the hypocrisy of major Feminist organizations like the UN. |
imbricator said: Jonouchi-Katsuya said: True facts. Also UN has no power. I am a feminist and anti censorship and a lot of feminists actually are. And yeah Nyu is really really into making these threads. lol Go look at Fanfiction.net. Most of the writers are women. Go read a Erotica. The writers are women. Women are interested in porn fun facts. They are normally not aligned with the obnoxious end of the feminist movement. It's really unfortunate that so many men don't realize that the ultimate goal of feminism, from the roots of the first theorists, is gender equality, not making women more privileged than men. They also don't realize that gender equality will benefit men as well - they'll be able to get financial abortions, equal chances in custody battles, equal jail time, paternity leave, etc. Most stereotypical social justice warriors are uneducated or educated badly - it's shocking how many of them take gender studies and get indoctrinated with extremely radical viewpoints which ironically reinforce traditional sexism. The influential feminists who laid the intellectual groundwork of feminism don't agree with many notorious SJW attitudes. SJWs do not represent actual feminism/gender equality (^ why I used gender equality up there; lots of men get triggered by the term feminism even though they don't understand that opposing feminism is opposing their own self-interest, just like poor Trump voters lol). I can actually agree with this. This is something my favorite most noteable feminist even acknowledges (Betty Dodson). And yes, how feminism is supposed to go is much like my girl Susan B. fighting for her right to have equal jail time as a man for doing the same crime. I really do think a lot of these tumblr folks are stupid. And yeah a lot of the college courses are run by cultural or radical feminists<<<<<---- who I absolutely do not like. They actually have an entirely different idea of how women would gain "liberation" vs. me who wants equality. They want liberation though. This is DEFINITELY a different thing. I am not saying these people don't exist. They do. Just the people I follow that also call themselves feminists (sex positive feminists) definitely aren't the same as those feminists. Generally I also get along OK with Liberal feminists as long as they are a little more global based focusing not on media but on real problems or focused on helping a minority (example: Disabled people) with you know, their REAL problems. In otherwords- feminists who keep focused on the things that actually lift people out of poverty (laws like the right to ride a bike like a man and drive like a man and walk around and shop like a man- and as per usual this group should always focus on voting rights) and bring actual equality are usually my friend. Sex positive feminists usually are focused on a woman's right to choose sex partners, to have a fulfilling sex life, spreading the word of how to orgasm (yeah fun facts a lot of women don't know how!), how to masturbate and that it is ok (yes women actually don't do this as much as porn would have you think or they feel so ashamed they wont orgasm in the end), promoting legal toplessness (which is a crossover with liberal feminists), Promoting the idea of writing down your fantasies, promoting reading fantasies. Promoting a SAFE porn industry that treats women better- promoting a life after porn for pornstars and strippers and other sex jobs. Personally I adore hentai as it doesn't use actual people. Yaoi is honestly best also because if you look at the voice actors for it- Actors such as I donno.... Toshiyuki Morikawa are able to do Yaoi and get lots and lots of not porn jobs. |
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
| @imbricator @Jonouchi-Katsuya How come whenever I counter your points, you's just abandon your arguments, and start conversing in your own echo chamber, only responding to people who share your views. Yous argue that your not radical feminists, but hiding in echo chambers contradicts that. And this happens in every thread, it's like you know your arguments can't stand up to criticism, so you state your arguments, then runaway from counter arguments. |
| yuri doesnt have any sexual violence towards women? |
| Sonic X is basically an isekai |
How much Yaou have you read/watched? Would you say you are an expert? |
Watched? None. It doesn't interest me. Read? None. I only watch anime. Expert at anime/manga? I hope you're joking lmao. Although i didn't form my opinion on baseless things lol. Although the moment i read " would you say you're an expert" i feel like i won't be needing to elaborate on why i said what i said. |
AstZeroJun 28, 2017 6:41 AM
| The beauty of humans is that they say one thing then do another, but at the same time that can also be their ugliest side. |
| Oh good grief, this thread is still going on? I mean OP's got a rep for over-generalizing feminism into what fits his worldview. Mayuka said: Actually, I don't see people trying to remove lesbians in Anime at all if that were the equivalent. The so-called feminists you are referring to just wants tits and ass out of games and they're also against underaged lolis. BL Anime: - Only a handful depict dubcon (and those ones get lots of backlash from feminists) and more of the recent ones are clean (Doukyuusei and Kono Danshi as examples) - They're above age of consent (except few series which actually do get roasted by feminists such as "Okane ga Nai") As a female in the female anime fan community, yes, feminists actually pick on BL stuff and call some problematic if it shows stuff like BDSM or dubcon. lady_freyja said: Nyu said: Why is it always things that portray women (somewhat) negatively that get censored, yet women's genres that do the exact same thing are ignored. What's with the double standard by Feminists, your perfectly fine with sexual violence of men, but not women. If you knew what you are speaking about, you should know that the Japanese feminists started to criticize BL as early as the 1990s decade, which correspond to the period where the BL genre became visible outside of the niche of few shōjo nerds/fujoshi. There is numerous papers about the "yaoi ronsō" that begun in 1992. Actually, this debate is between two major views: on one stand the feminist and gay activisms who basically want to render the BL more "gay friendly" by notably removing all the fantasies about rape or even male-pregnacy, and the other stand the queer activism which refuse any sort of "normalization". This debate is intrinsically linked to the concept of the heterosexism, considering that the BL genre always featured genre-fuck elements since its inception. As for today, the debate is not dead yet. So saying that feminism doesn't care about the sexual violence inside the BL is plain wrong. Just learning about basic history of that genre is enough for knowing this, considering that all the serious papers about the BL genre speak of the "yaoi ronsō" one way or another. Sadly, OP's never going to acknowledge your posts guys. *baits OP* mimiiria said: What about females who are sick of modern feminism? Where do we fit in? All I want from feminism is to focus on issues that actually matter (like women's rights in the Middle East, genital mutilation etc) instead of bullying people because of their taste in 2D porn. Third world centric feminism movements exist. I worked with them. Just because they don't holler loudly doesn't mean they do not exist. Learn what the f*ck is a google search engine, learn how the f*ck do you use one. Jesus, this thread reeks of ignorance and contrarianism. Any movement now have to tiptoe a lot because if they ever holler too loud, people will go against them just for hollering too loudly. |
EankiJun 28, 2017 7:11 AM
 You gave up your freedom of speech when you clicked Agree to the User Agreement This is not a public platform. My gaze is the measure of all things: I stopped considering "anime" a helpful tag Recommended Essays Exploring Actually Excellent World-Building |
le_halfhand_easy said: Oh good grief, this thread is still going on? I mean OP's got a rep for over-generalizing feminism into what fits his worldview. Mayuka said: Actually, I don't see people trying to remove lesbians in Anime at all if that were the equivalent. The so-called feminists you are referring to just wants tits and ass out of games and they're also against underaged lolis. BL Anime: - Only a handful depict dubcon (and those ones get lots of backlash from feminists) and more of the recent ones are clean (Doukyuusei and Kono Danshi as examples) - They're above age of consent (except few series which actually do get roasted by feminists such as "Okane ga Nai") As a female in the female anime fan community, yes, feminists actually pick on BL stuff and call some problematic if it shows stuff like BDSM or dubcon. lady_freyja said: If you knew what you are speaking about, you should know that the Japanese feminists started to criticize BL as early as the 1990s decade, which correspond to the period where the BL genre became visible outside of the niche of few shōjo nerds/fujoshi. There is numerous papers about the "yaoi ronsō" that begun in 1992. Actually, this debate is between two major views: on one stand the feminist and gay activisms who basically want to render the BL more "gay friendly" by notably removing all the fantasies about rape or even male-pregnacy, and the other stand the queer activism which refuse any sort of "normalization". This debate is intrinsically linked to the concept of the heterosexism, considering that the BL genre always featured genre-fuck elements since its inception. As for today, the debate is not dead yet. So saying that feminism doesn't care about the sexual violence inside the BL is plain wrong. Just learning about basic history of that genre is enough for knowing this, considering that all the serious papers about the BL genre speak of the "yaoi ronsō" one way or another. Sadly, OP's never going to acknowledge your posts guys. *baits OP* mimiiria said: What about females who are sick of modern feminism? Where do we fit in? All I want from feminism is to focus on issues that actually matter (like women's rights in the Middle East, genital mutilation etc) instead of bullying people because of their taste in 2D porn. Third world centric feminism movements exist. I worked with them. Just because they don't holler loudly doesn't mean they do not exist. Learn what the f*ck is a google search engine, learn how the f*ck do you use one. Jesus, this thread reeks of ignorance and contrarianism. Any movement now have to tiptoe a lot because if they ever holler too loud, people will go against them just for hollering too loudly. What a surprise that people form an opinion on a movement based on the loudest, most powerful and most influential parts of it. Shame on them. It's their fault, not the fault of leading, influential feminist lobbies who have all but forgotten the equality roots of the movement. All hail feminism which is infallible because it is based on a sound principle and no matter how many feminists do shitty things as long as there are also 'good ones' out there criticizing the mainstream parts of the movement is toxic. Because if you can find one example of a good feminist via google it means all the criticism is naught. Am I doing it right? This is seriously how a lot of the posts defending feminism sound like. They don't acknowledge that a lot of LEADING (not random outliers) feminists do a lot of shitty and petty things that have nothing to do with gender equality anymore, just with preserving power like anyone in politics does. They also don't try to defend their actions ot argue that in fact what they are doing is not even bad so there could at least be a discourse about the problems of modern feminism. Instead they ignore their existence completely and think that pointing out that somewhere in the world there are still other kind of feminists is in any shape or form a counterargument to the criticism towards leading, political feminists. It is Not. It's just escapism, trying to ignore the actual issues people have. Empty rhetorics that don't target the criticism at all and is just there to sound good. When people like me or @mimiiria (just ignore Nyu for the sake of our credibility) criticize modern feminism it is obviously the political, feminist lobby that we are criticizing. The leaders. The big organizations that can pressure governments or the UN into doing or not doing stuff. Not some lofty ideals from 35 years ago that you cannot detect in a lot of their actions these days anymore and which are therefore irrelevant to the criticism, and not random ground-level feminists around the globe who do valid stuff like fighting genital mutilation, but have little to no political power or influence in the west. It's criticism towards feminism as a political movement, as a lobby. Not necessarily towards feminism as an ideology, although I do have a problem with an ideology that is allegedly about equality but blames the source of all evil on society on males via the concept of the Patriarchy. But that is another topic entirely. For starters I'd be really happy if people stopped trying to counter criticism of modern, political feminism with completely irrelevant stuff like ancient ideals or individual feminist activities just so they don't have to address or think about the actual issues that are brought up by critics. The worst thing you can say about the non-mainstream feminists, the ones that associate themselves with the ideology but not the current political movement, is that they are supporting the actions of their more prominent and loud leaders by being silent about them. If they disagree, they don't voice it at least and are therefore partly responsible for letting their movement be abused for things that do not perpetuate equality. Still, if they focus on important work I don't have any problem with that. Because they probably know that if they voice criticism towards modern mainstream feminism, they are likely to be 'exiled' from the feminist community and lose any attached support as it happened to other feminists in the past who dared to declare certain issues to not be only the fault of males, or who also wanted to bring attention to gender issues where males have the shorter straw instead of only ever focusing on women's issues in an alleged equality movement. The fact that this kind of oppressive mindset where having different ideas that disagree with the established narrative of males creating the patriarchy to suppress women and women always without exception being the victims and males always being the bad guys, lead to being exiled and banned from publicly speaking exists, and not just in a few crazy radicals but in the majority of leading feminists is a big issue. Just look up Erin Pizzey and how she ended up being exiled, threatened and banned from publicly speaking by the feminist lobby after she said that domestic violence is not a gender-specific issue but based on her experience (she founded the first ever domestic violence shelter in the UK) both sexes have similar potential for domestic violence in them. Now she isn't even allowed to enter the shelter that she herself founded because it is run by a modern feminist organization. That#s how much leading femnist organizations love equality and freedom. But no feminist ever responds about the actual issues when it is brought up, they just try to defend feminism as a whole by ignoring all the shitty parts about it and focusing on the good parts. Which, tbh, comes off as kinda pitiful. It's never gonna be convincing to just change the subject and start insulting people because they criticize public, political, influential feminism and didn't google for 3rd world feminism before and decided that because that exists too suddenly all their issues with the rest of feminism vanished. That's not how it fucking works. That's quite some mental gymnastics you need to perform. Nobody (well aside from maybe Nyu, idk) criticizes or hates feminism because of women in 3rd world countries fighting against genital mutilation. Bringing that up doesn't invalidate any of the criticism towards political feminism and leading, western feminists. It just feels like sketchy rhetorics trying to dodge the actual topic. That's why feminism-defenders love people like Nyu more than anything. He's easy to debunk because of how radical and extremist he is in his hatred against feminism, and he gives a good reason to never take any criticism seriously when you think it is all as extreme and one-sided as his. But at the same time it feels if you don't be as aggresive as he is about his criticism noone will even properly respond so it's a kind of dilemma. Do you want to be reasonable but not be heard or do you want to be loud and heard for the cost of your arguments becoming more and more onse-sided and easy to not take seriously. You pretty much can't win if you're a critic of feminism :/. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Pullman, consider this: I'm always on a hair trigger. But I didn't jump on you. You do have solid points 99% of the time, and it's no different here. I didn't even acknowledge the OP besides a few cheap shots. What I jumped at is this downright questionable statement: le_halfhand_easy said: mimiiria said: What about females who are sick of modern feminism? Where do we fit in? All I want from feminism is to focus on issues that actually matter (like women's rights in the Middle East, genital mutilation etc) instead of bullying people because of their taste in 2D porn. Third world centric feminism movements exist. I worked with them. Just because they don't holler loudly doesn't mean they do not exist. Learn what the f*ck is a google search engine, learn how the f*ck do you use one. Feminism has issues. Everything in life does. I'm not blind to that. What I am is blind hot anger against blanket statements that can be answered by a basic google search. All I want from feminism is to focus on issues that actually matter (like women's rights in the Middle East, genital mutilation etc) Except that they actually already are. |
EankiJun 28, 2017 8:11 AM
You gave up your freedom of speech when you clicked Agree to the User Agreement This is not a public platform. My gaze is the measure of all things: I stopped considering "anime" a helpful tag Recommended Essays Exploring Actually Excellent World-Building |
le_halfhand_easy said: Pullman, consider this: I'm always on a hair trigger. But I didn't jump on you. You do have solid points 99% of the time, and it's no different here. I didn't even acknowledge the OP besides a few cheap shots. What I jumped at is this downright questionable statement: le_halfhand_easy said: Third world centric feminism movements exist. I worked with them. Just because they don't holler loudly doesn't mean they do not exist. Learn what the f*ck is a google search engine, learn how the f*ck do you use one. Feminism has issues. Everything in life does. I'm not blind to that. What I am is blind hot anger against blanket statements that can be answered by a basic google search. All I want from feminism is to focus on issues that actually matter (like women's rights in the Middle East, genital mutilation etc) Except that they actually already are. Well, if you interpret 'focus' as not only 'people in the movement existing who care about these issues' but 'have it be the center of their activities' then I do understand her complaint. Just because some organizations exist who do that doesn't mean feminism as a whole, or leading feminist movements don't rather organize boycotts against the MRA or The Red Pill than spend money and energy on these very real issues that women in other countries still have. I mean I guess I can see your issue and why you reacted like that but to me it seems logical to interpret statements like this not to mean 'noone in all of feminsm' but 'pretty much noone in mainstream/vocal/influential/political' feminism. It's the difference between saying 'feminism' doesn't focus on it and 'no feminists' focus on it. The latter is not true, but the former arguably is. Or at least it is what should be talked about. I always compare movements like feminism to a country. What the country does and cares for is determined by its leaders. Just because there are, idk, Hungarians who care about refugees, doesn't mean that Hungary as a country doesn't have a very anti-refugee policy. Just because there are feminists who still care about and work on important issues, doesn't mean feminism as a political movement focuses on these topics. The argument should revolve around the latter, but it feels like the defensive arguments are always of the first kind which kinda prevents any interesting dialogue about the topic from the start. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
le_halfhand_easy said: Now now, no need to use that language. Everybody knows about all those funds that try to support third world women in entrepreneurship and farming and such. They're great and I've even donated to a couple of them. But why don't they holler louder? Why are the "big" feminists like Anita Sarkeesian only whining about tit size in video games, or doing some retarded art stunts with their period blood? Why is it so hard for them to keep their clothes on and talk about stuff that matters? Because I'm not going to call myself a feminist as long as that means being one of those people. That'd be social suicide where I live. So how about you who are "brave" enough to label yourselves as feminists try to fix the image of your movement? You might be surprised at how many are willing to support you.mimiiria said: What about females who are sick of modern feminism? Where do we fit in? All I want from feminism is to focus on issues that actually matter (like women's rights in the Middle East, genital mutilation etc) instead of bullying people because of their taste in 2D porn. Third world centric feminism movements exist. I worked with them. Just because they don't holler loudly doesn't mean they do not exist. Learn what the f*ck is a google search engine, learn how the f*ck do you use one. Jesus, this thread reeks of ignorance and contrarianism. Any movement now have to tiptoe a lot because if they ever holler too loud, people will go against them just for hollering too loudly. |
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