Re:Creators Episode 4 Discussion

Apr 30, 2017 8:29 AM

Offline

Nov 2016

325

klaki892 said:

AnimeFanboy1234 said:

Why is monologue, "required"? Storytelling is WAY more flexible than people give it credit for: you can use flashbacks, you can cut out characters, etc. People don't write a script by going, "Okay, this is going to be character x, this will be the conflict", and then just let everything flow by itself and then go, "Oh, those boring monologue scenes? They were absolutely necessary! You don't know what you're talking about!"
I've been talking about what little context Fate/Zero gives to its characters *as a stand alone*. I never refereed to how you can just google them, I've been saying you can get a basic idea on who they are JUST from watching fate/zero, and fate/zero alone. Why is what I'm saying here so hard to understand?

Again, countless anime can balance all of that: They can have an ep where if there's no fighting, characters are moving around and doing something interesting, and not talking about something the audience can easily figure out for 10 whole minutes.
The way how you and others are oversimplify peoples' complaints about the lack of action as, "Just wanting action" is really getting on my nerves, but I should not be surpirsed.

In a way, I would say Meteroa's character and the plot progression to this point "required" monologue. Not to mention, from her character we've seen thus far it's usually her job to explain theories and possibilities (and will probably continue)

Im not saying storytelling requires monologue, but in certain situations it does, like the one presented in this episode. I believe that there are few other ways someone could've presented Meteroa's theories and her positioning on the issue without her taking the time to explain it (in her own character's fashion)

One could argue, they could've made that entire scene more interesting by drawing it out at the same time as she's explaining it and thus distracting people on the fact that it was one character talking for 10 minutes (Monogatari does this well)

But on the counter-side, as other people have already pointed out, what Meteora's said (other than saying shes on their side) is still just a theory which the show spent a good deal of time on. I doubt that would've flown over too many peoples head even if the explanation was presented in a different fashion and the complaints would still be there.
Content and context still matters despite it execution. And execution is always a what-if game in retrospect.

Then don't have her monologue. Or don't even bring up the theory. Or never even bring it up. This is what irritates me about this community: the belief that in an anime, some things are INEVITABLE. Do you guys have ANY idea how many drafts writers trash when writing? How many times they go, "Okay, this is dragged out", or, "Okay, I can implement this in a much different way"? The possibilities are endless!
Anyone could've easily processed, "Hey, you know, it is unnatural for these characters to get transported into the real world", these characters could've figured this out within the 1st ep, and just point it out within like 2 minutes. Chop chop. Snap snap. Get on with it.
It seriously is disappointing how Monogatari, a series where all characters do is TALK for whole eps, can do so in much more creative ways.
Hell, all that, "monologue" could've been easily summed up with, "Our existence here is unnatural, therefore we may possibly be causing chaos in the system, which will require to reset itself to fix itself". From how long the monologu was dragged out, it's very clear that Re: Creators has 0 trust in its audience's intelligence.

Apr 30, 2017 8:35 AM

#102

GangsterCat

Offline

Sep 2016

4624

spoonfeeding non-stop infodump (that isn't even info, just theory!!!) straight to viewers mouth is never a good idea

CrossAnge

Hey guys check my profile for current airing season anime recommendation (guaranteed best taste)

Apr 30, 2017 9:06 AM

#103

klaki892

Offline

Dec 2013

83

AnimeFanboy1234 said:

klaki892 said:

In a way, I would say Meteroa's character and the plot progression to this point "required" monologue. Not to mention, from her character we've seen thus far it's usually her job to explain theories and possibilities (and will probably continue)

Im not saying storytelling requires monologue, but in certain situations it does, like the one presented in this episode. I believe that there are few other ways someone could've presented Meteroa's theories and her positioning on the issue without her taking the time to explain it (in her own character's fashion)

One could argue, they could've made that entire scene more interesting by drawing it out at the same time as she's explaining it and thus distracting people on the fact that it was one character talking for 10 minutes (Monogatari does this well)

But on the counter-side, as other people have already pointed out, what Meteora's said (other than saying shes on their side) is still just a theory which the show spent a good deal of time on. I doubt that would've flown over too many peoples head even if the explanation was presented in a different fashion and the complaints would still be there.
Content and context still matters despite it execution. And execution is always a what-if game in retrospect.

Then don't have her monologue. Or don't even bring up the theory. Or never even bring it up. This is what irritates me about this community: the belief that in an anime, some things are INEVITABLE. Do you guys have ANY idea how many drafts writers trash when writing? How many times they go, "Okay, this is dragged out", or, "Okay, I can implement this in a much different way"? The possibilities are endless!
Anyone could've easily processed, "Hey, you know, it is unnatural for these characters to get transported into the real world", these characters could've figured this out within the 1st ep, and just point it out within like 2 minutes. Chop chop. Snap snap. Get on with it.
It seriously is disappointing how Monogatari, a series where all characters do is TALK for whole eps, can do so in much more creative ways.
Hell, all that, "monologue" could've been easily summed up with, "Our existence here is unnatural, therefore we may possibly be causing chaos in the system, which will require to reset itself to fix itself". From how long the monologu was dragged out, it's very clear that Re: Creators has 0 trust in its audience's intelligence.

I know it's not your intention, but the way you mention that they could've not had the monologue at all would be perceived as "speed up to the action" (and as other people have pointed out, that's when you get another Aldnoah's Zero)

That's the *issue* though, no matter what happens it's a double-edged sword when it comes to writing.

Sure, it's possible the story could've pointed out the obvious quicker and been done with it. Maybe Meteora's theory of their current situation could've been cut down a lot shorter.

But then you would see the discussion of this episode instead turn into "okay, she said that, but why?" from many people. Not to mention, some people would probably not like the fact the background and reasoning was summed up in a few lines and only action continued.

The monologue here particularly does multiple things, that some people may just not notice or care (i believe at least)
1. it explains it to the other characters in the show as a means of making sure everyone's on the same page (the creators are still in full "wtf" mode as can be seen when Sora and the manga artist say they are unclear of what Meteora's main point is)
2. (In entertainment-trope fashion) It implies to audience since they spent that much time on it, that the theory most likely has true elements more heavily than if briefly mentioned, and the story is going in that direction. (of course this could also be writing to set up "plot-twists" for later)

My main point is, if the writer's did what you said, i would almost say with a guarantee that in this discussion there would be people complaining that they did it that way. and also other users asking why did they do it that way, and then other users just simply confused at the plot because they didn't process it fast enough.
I'm not saying it's a matter of intelligence, it's a matter of if someone was paying attention to that detail at that specific time rather than something else, and the faster it's presented leaves more room for missing things (like plot elements) to happen.

Apr 30, 2017 9:18 AM

#104

AnimeFanboy1234

Offline

Nov 2016

325

klaki892 said:

AnimeFanboy1234 said:

klaki892 said:

AnimeFanboy1234 said:

Why is monologue, "required"? Storytelling is WAY more flexible than people give it credit for: you can use flashbacks, you can cut out characters, etc. People don't write a script by going, "Okay, this is going to be character x, this will be the conflict", and then just let everything flow by itself and then go, "Oh, those boring monologue scenes? They were absolutely necessary! You don't know what you're talking about!"
I've been talking about what little context Fate/Zero gives to its characters *as a stand alone*. I never refereed to how you can just google them, I've been saying you can get a basic idea on who they are JUST from watching fate/zero, and fate/zero alone. Why is what I'm saying here so hard to understand?

Again, countless anime can balance all of that: They can have an ep where if there's no fighting, characters are moving around and doing something interesting, and not talking about something the audience can easily figure out for 10 whole minutes.
The way how you and others are oversimplify peoples' complaints about the lack of action as, "Just wanting action" is really getting on my nerves, but I should not be surpirsed.

In a way, I would say Meteroa's character and the plot progression to this point "required" monologue. Not to mention, from her character we've seen thus far it's usually her job to explain theories and possibilities (and will probably continue)

Im not saying storytelling requires monologue, but in certain situations it does, like the one presented in this episode. I believe that there are few other ways someone could've presented Meteroa's theories and her positioning on the issue without her taking the time to explain it (in her own character's fashion)

One could argue, they could've made that entire scene more interesting by drawing it out at the same time as she's explaining it and thus distracting people on the fact that it was one character talking for 10 minutes (Monogatari does this well)

But on the counter-side, as other people have already pointed out, what Meteora's said (other than saying shes on their side) is still just a theory which the show spent a good deal of time on. I doubt that would've flown over too many peoples head even if the explanation was presented in a different fashion and the complaints would still be there.
Content and context still matters despite it execution. And execution is always a what-if game in retrospect.

Then don't have her monologue. Or don't even bring up the theory. Or never even bring it up. This is what irritates me about this community: the belief that in an anime, some things are INEVITABLE. Do you guys have ANY idea how many drafts writers trash when writing? How many times they go, "Okay, this is dragged out", or, "Okay, I can implement this in a much different way"? The possibilities are endless!
Anyone could've easily processed, "Hey, you know, it is unnatural for these characters to get transported into the real world", these characters could've figured this out within the 1st ep, and just point it out within like 2 minutes. Chop chop. Snap snap. Get on with it.
It seriously is disappointing how Monogatari, a series where all characters do is TALK for whole eps, can do so in much more creative ways.
Hell, all that, "monologue" could've been easily summed up with, "Our existence here is unnatural, therefore we may possibly be causing chaos in the system, which will require to reset itself to fix itself". From how long the monologu was dragged out, it's very clear that Re: Creators has 0 trust in its audience's intelligence.

I know it's not your intention, but the way you mention that they could've not had the monologue at all would be perceived as "speed up to the action" (and as other people have pointed out, that's when you get another Aldnoah's Zero)

That's the *issue* though, no matter what happens it's a double-edged sword when it comes to writing.

Sure, it's possible the story could've pointed out the obvious quicker and been done with it. Maybe Meteora's theory of their current situation could've been cut down a lot shorter.

But then you would see the discussion of this episode instead turn into "okay, she said that, but why?" from many people. Not to mention, some people would probably not like the fact the background and reasoning was summed up in a few lines and only action continued.

The monologue here particularly does multiple things, that some people may just not notice or care (i believe at least)
1. it explains it to the other characters in the show as a means of making sure everyone's on the same page (the creators are still in full "wtf" mode as can be seen when Sora and the manga artist say they are unclear of what Meteora's main point is)
2. (In entertainment-trope fashion) It implies to audience since they spent that much time on it, that the theory most likely has true elements more heavily than if briefly mentioned, and the story is going in that direction. (of course this could also be writing to set up "plot-twists" for later)

My main point is, if the writer's did what you said, i would almost say with a guarantee that in this discussion there would be people complaining that they did it that way. and also other users asking why did they do it that way, and then other users just simply confused at the plot because they didn't process it fast enough.
I'm not saying it's a matter of intelligence, it's a matter of if someone was paying attention to that detail at that specific time rather than something else, and the faster it's presented leaves more room for missing things (like plot elements) to happen.

Again, key word, BALANCE. Series like Naruto also had a shit-load of exposition that was balanced out with other things. Also, I only watched the first 2 eps of Aldnoah Zero.

1) 3 minutes of Ceroa or whatever her name is making a theory, cut to the villains, then cut the main cast where they've already discussed it, as in many cases in anime. "Do not have dialogue that contains info the audience already knows" is something I strongly believe in.
If it's gonna bore the audience, cut it out. Period. Or tweak it in a completely different way. Or hell, DON'T have her come up with the theory, until something chaotic actually does happen. Seems a little weird for characters to be coming up with a theory that has had not even an ounce of proof yet. Have them try to fight the enemy, THEN shit happens, THEN the characters start thinking, "Okay, you know, maybe our presence is causing some kinda disturbance". The consequence of their action already gives us info without relying on padded exposition. This would also lead to conflict among the characters, something that hasn't happened at all in 3 eps.
2) Now this is something interesting: more screentime = more important later on. Still, I don't care, because it bored the shit out of me. Anime exists to sell and entertain the audience, not the characters.

Apr 30, 2017 9:30 AM

#105

darksidemlz

Offline

Apr 2017

85

Damn people this day
Always complain about the talking
If you find this anime is boring just drop it already
Don't judge it too quickly, it's original and 2 cour anime
What do you guys expect? Reverse re zero? Lol

Apr 30, 2017 9:31 AM

#106

Partyu

Offline

Jan 2015

600

That scene of them just eating was fantastic

Introduction to Saber chick. Hope we get more introductions with the other three (aka pilot, hardboiled, and sharky) so I can fill out an alignment chart.

Apr 30, 2017 10:31 AM

#107

LobsterRyoma

Offline

Sep 2009

415

The pacing so far kinda reminds me of how Kiseki/Trails games are paced. Short, satisfying bursts of action followed by long bouts of world-building, character building, and interaction.

I did the find the episode a bit of a snoozefest beyond Meteora's resolve, but I'm keeping faith. Next episode will surely be a spike in the action seeing as Gunpuku-hime and the valkyrie chick are starting to move.

Just like last season's ACCA, I want to believe these slow scenes will payoff in droves in the coming episodes.

Apr 30, 2017 11:04 AM

#108

Whoahoho

Offline

Mar 2016

1481

Oh, so according to Meteora the fantasy world and the real world are about to merge in order to reset, too bad Meteora's creator died, which means she can claim some money from the company where her creator works. If I'm guessing right it was the soldier uniform girl who causing such mayhem, frankly her existence violates the time space continuum, where she wasn't supposed to exist cu'z her creator Sota hasn't created her yet.

Apr 30, 2017 11:23 AM

#109

abused

Offline

Mar 2015

63

I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone mentioning the girl in the very beginning of the first episode. Doesn't anyone think she has something to do with the Military Princess? I thought it was really suspicious how Sota mentioned that he was the "narrator" in the beginning and that his sister(?) was the "main character" whom the story revolves around. Not sure what he meant but it sounds to me like the girl in the beginning might have some kind of relation with Sota and the Military Princess.

Apr 30, 2017 11:25 AM

#110

4061453

Offline

Jan 2016

41

So the emotionless white-haired girl has no basis for her hypothesis, but she's going to be right anyways since she's the infodump character. Bad writing.

Apr 30, 2017 11:29 AM

#111

noireo

Offline

Jun 2012

135

4061453 said:
So the emotionless white-haired girl has no basis for her hypothesis, but she's going to be right anyways since she's the infodump character. Bad writing.

She has a fucking magical google book.

Apr 30, 2017 11:32 AM

#112

HyperL

Offline

May 2016

3008

I would love to see someone come up with a better way to present the "Great Destruction" information.

You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from within it.

Apr 30, 2017 11:39 AM

#113

firemagnet

Offline

Jul 2014

657

AnimeFanboy1234 said:

klaki892 said:

AnimeFanboy1234 said:

klaki892 said:

AnimeFanboy1234 said:

Why is monologue, "required"? Storytelling is WAY more flexible than people give it credit for: you can use flashbacks, you can cut out characters, etc. People don't write a script by going, "Okay, this is going to be character x, this will be the conflict", and then just let everything flow by itself and then go, "Oh, those boring monologue scenes? They were absolutely necessary! You don't know what you're talking about!"
I've been talking about what little context Fate/Zero gives to its characters *as a stand alone*. I never refereed to how you can just google them, I've been saying you can get a basic idea on who they are JUST from watching fate/zero, and fate/zero alone. Why is what I'm saying here so hard to understand?

Again, countless anime can balance all of that: They can have an ep where if there's no fighting, characters are moving around and doing something interesting, and not talking about something the audience can easily figure out for 10 whole minutes.
The way how you and others are oversimplify peoples' complaints about the lack of action as, "Just wanting action" is really getting on my nerves, but I should not be surpirsed.

In a way, I would say Meteroa's character and the plot progression to this point "required" monologue. Not to mention, from her character we've seen thus far it's usually her job to explain theories and possibilities (and will probably continue)

Im not saying storytelling requires monologue, but in certain situations it does, like the one presented in this episode. I believe that there are few other ways someone could've presented Meteroa's theories and her positioning on the issue without her taking the time to explain it (in her own character's fashion)

One could argue, they could've made that entire scene more interesting by drawing it out at the same time as she's explaining it and thus distracting people on the fact that it was one character talking for 10 minutes (Monogatari does this well)

But on the counter-side, as other people have already pointed out, what Meteora's said (other than saying shes on their side) is still just a theory which the show spent a good deal of time on. I doubt that would've flown over too many peoples head even if the explanation was presented in a different fashion and the complaints would still be there.
Content and context still matters despite it execution. And execution is always a what-if game in retrospect.

Then don't have her monologue. Or don't even bring up the theory. Or never even bring it up. This is what irritates me about this community: the belief that in an anime, some things are INEVITABLE. Do you guys have ANY idea how many drafts writers trash when writing? How many times they go, "Okay, this is dragged out", or, "Okay, I can implement this in a much different way"? The possibilities are endless!
Anyone could've easily processed, "Hey, you know, it is unnatural for these characters to get transported into the real world", these characters could've figured this out within the 1st ep, and just point it out within like 2 minutes. Chop chop. Snap snap. Get on with it.
It seriously is disappointing how Monogatari, a series where all characters do is TALK for whole eps, can do so in much more creative ways.
Hell, all that, "monologue" could've been easily summed up with, "Our existence here is unnatural, therefore we may possibly be causing chaos in the system, which will require to reset itself to fix itself". From how long the monologu was dragged out, it's very clear that Re: Creators has 0 trust in its audience's intelligence.

I know it's not your intention, but the way you mention that they could've not had the monologue at all would be perceived as "speed up to the action" (and as other people have pointed out, that's when you get another Aldnoah's Zero)

That's the *issue* though, no matter what happens it's a double-edged sword when it comes to writing.

Sure, it's possible the story could've pointed out the obvious quicker and been done with it. Maybe Meteora's theory of their current situation could've been cut down a lot shorter.

But then you would see the discussion of this episode instead turn into "okay, she said that, but why?" from many people. Not to mention, some people would probably not like the fact the background and reasoning was summed up in a few lines and only action continued.

The monologue here particularly does multiple things, that some people may just not notice or care (i believe at least)
1. it explains it to the other characters in the show as a means of making sure everyone's on the same page (the creators are still in full "wtf" mode as can be seen when Sora and the manga artist say they are unclear of what Meteora's main point is)
2. (In entertainment-trope fashion) It implies to audience since they spent that much time on it, that the theory most likely has true elements more heavily than if briefly mentioned, and the story is going in that direction. (of course this could also be writing to set up "plot-twists" for later)

My main point is, if the writer's did what you said, i would almost say with a guarantee that in this discussion there would be people complaining that they did it that way. and also other users asking why did they do it that way, and then other users just simply confused at the plot because they didn't process it fast enough.
I'm not saying it's a matter of intelligence, it's a matter of if someone was paying attention to that detail at that specific time rather than something else, and the faster it's presented leaves more room for missing things (like plot elements) to happen.

Again, key word, BALANCE. Series like Naruto also had a shit-load of exposition that was balanced out with other things. Also, I only watched the first 2 eps of Aldnoah Zero.

1) 3 minutes of Ceroa or whatever her name is making a theory, cut to the villains, then cut the main cast where they've already discussed it, as in many cases in anime. "Do not have dialogue that contains info the audience already knows" is something I strongly believe in.
If it's gonna bore the audience, cut it out. Period. Or tweak it in a completely different way. Or hell, DON'T have her come up with the theory, until something chaotic actually does happen. Seems a little weird for characters to be coming up with a theory that has had not even an ounce of proof yet. Have them try to fight the enemy, THEN shit happens, THEN the characters start thinking, "Okay, you know, maybe our presence is causing some kinda disturbance". The consequence of their action already gives us info without relying on padded exposition. This would also lead to conflict among the characters, something that hasn't happened at all in 3 eps.
2) Now this is something interesting: more screentime = more important later on. Still, I don't care, because it bored the shit out of me. Anime exists to sell and entertain the audience, not the characters.

To your point 1) remember that Meteora has her magic book with her, and that it allowed her to easily understand the "laws, physics, nature, political thought, history, and lay-of-the-land of [the] world." Her latest monologue builds off of this, which is why she is constantly testing hypotheses based off of that understanding. Everything in the series so far builds off of the material preceding it.

The "shit happens" has already happened. Both sides are presently marshaling forces and deciding on their courses of action based upon what they know. The Creators' team has the advantage of having Meteora, while Himegimi's team is, to an extent, still stumbling around in the dark. It's clear that Himegimi knows exactly what's going on, but she chooses to withhold information and tell half-truths in order to use the others for her own ends. This, or she sincerely believes that by disrupting the world she could attain a form of godhood that would allow her to preserve the other worlds while destroying or forever changing the world of the creators.

Daniel_Naumov said:
The doomsday plan is nothing but a cognitive dissonance in what humanity believes fundamentally and what is going on in the series. If they started coming out, something that should not be here, and even clashing, destroying buildings and wreaking havoc, the humanity will be inclined to react to it all. The doomsday is presumale self-destruction of humanity by trying to make sense of things that were not supposed to be made sense of.

More specifically, this doomsday plan seems to hinge on a belief in a manifestation of the collective "will of humanity," as in Fate/Stay Night lore. The underlying idea is that by visibly disrupting the laws of the universe amid a large gathering of people, the relationship between the creators and the created will be reversed. Further, for this relationship to work, it implies that all of the worlds and their contradictions are merging. In short, reality is being slowly rewritten to allow for the use of powers and things that ought to be impossible in the "real world." If this extends far enough, the creators will eventually be able to rewrite reality itself. This is what Gunpuku no Himegimi is aiming for, and she likely intends to acquire the strength to have her abilities begin to fully affect the real world (judging by the opening). This is likely what Meteora means by the 'great destruction," and Himegimi likely intends to manipulate it to her own ends. In doing so, she would kill two birds with one stone; she would be able to take the ultimate revenge on the creators as well as resurrect her creator, who would then be her creation.

Mind you, all of this is extrapolation from narrative arcs as well as information that has already been provided. I strongly suspect that Himegimi will succeed in the long term, but it's clear to me that Kirameki Mamika is being set up as the spanner in the works for Himegimi's plans; she is the most obviously conflicted, while all the other actors on Himegimi's side are very much "ends justifies the means" characters.

Apr 30, 2017 1:05 PM

#114

AnimeFanboy1234

Offline

Nov 2016

325

[quote=firemagnet message=50547447]

AnimeFanboy1234 said:

klaki892 said:

AnimeFanboy1234 said:

klaki892 said:

AnimeFanboy1234 said:

Why is monologue, "required"? Storytelling is WAY more flexible than people give it credit for: you can use flashbacks, you can cut out characters, etc. People don't write a script by going, "Okay, this is going to be character x, this will be the conflict", and then just let everything flow by itself and then go, "Oh, those boring monologue scenes? They were absolutely necessary! You don't know what you're talking about!"
I've been talking about what little context Fate/Zero gives to its characters *as a stand alone*. I never refereed to how you can just google them, I've been saying you can get a basic idea on who they are JUST from watching fate/zero, and fate/zero alone. Why is what I'm saying here so hard to understand?

Again, countless anime can balance all of that: They can have an ep where if there's no fighting, characters are moving around and doing something interesting, and not talking about something the audience can easily figure out for 10 whole minutes.
The way how you and others are oversimplify peoples' complaints about the lack of action as, "Just wanting action" is really getting on my nerves, but I should not be surpirsed.

In a way, I would say Meteroa's character and the plot progression to this point "required" monologue. Not to mention, from her character we've seen thus far it's usually her job to explain theories and possibilities (and will probably continue)

Im not saying storytelling requires monologue, but in certain situations it does, like the one presented in this episode. I believe that there are few other ways someone could've presented Meteroa's theories and her positioning on the issue without her taking the time to explain it (in her own character's fashion)

One could argue, they could've made that entire scene more interesting by drawing it out at the same time as she's explaining it and thus distracting people on the fact that it was one character talking for 10 minutes (Monogatari does this well)

But on the counter-side, as other people have already pointed out, what Meteora's said (other than saying shes on their side) is still just a theory which the show spent a good deal of time on. I doubt that would've flown over too many peoples head even if the explanation was presented in a different fashion and the complaints would still be there.
Content and context still matters despite it execution. And execution is always a what-if game in retrospect.

Then don't have her monologue. Or don't even bring up the theory. Or never even bring it up. This is what irritates me about this community: the belief that in an anime, some things are INEVITABLE. Do you guys have ANY idea how many drafts writers trash when writing? How many times they go, "Okay, this is dragged out", or, "Okay, I can implement this in a much different way"? The possibilities are endless!
Anyone could've easily processed, "Hey, you know, it is unnatural for these characters to get transported into the real world", these characters could've figured this out within the 1st ep, and just point it out within like 2 minutes. Chop chop. Snap snap. Get on with it.
It seriously is disappointing how Monogatari, a series where all characters do is TALK for whole eps, can do so in much more creative ways.
Hell, all that, "monologue" could've been easily summed up with, "Our existence here is unnatural, therefore we may possibly be causing chaos in the system, which will require to reset itself to fix itself". From how long the monologu was dragged out, it's very clear that Re: Creators has 0 trust in its audience's intelligence.

I know it's not your intention, but the way you mention that they could've not had the monologue at all would be perceived as "speed up to the action" (and as other people have pointed out, that's when you get another Aldnoah's Zero)

That's the *issue* though, no matter what happens it's a double-edged sword when it comes to writing.

Sure, it's possible the story could've pointed out the obvious quicker and been done with it. Maybe Meteora's theory of their current situation could've been cut down a lot shorter.

But then you would see the discussion of this episode instead turn into "okay, she said that, but why?" from many people. Not to mention, some people would probably not like the fact the background and reasoning was summed up in a few lines and only action continued.

The monologue here particularly does multiple things, that some people may just not notice or care (i believe at least)
1. it explains it to the other characters in the show as a means of making sure everyone's on the same page (the creators are still in full "wtf" mode as can be seen when Sora and the manga artist say they are unclear of what Meteora's main point is)
2. (In entertainment-trope fashion) It implies to audience since they spent that much time on it, that the theory most likely has true elements more heavily than if briefly mentioned, and the story is going in that direction. (of course this could also be writing to set up "plot-twists" for later)

My main point is, if the writer's did what you said, i would almost say with a guarantee that in this discussion there would be people complaining that they did it that way. and also other users asking why did they do it that way, and then other users just simply confused at the plot because they didn't process it fast enough.
I'm not saying it's a matter of intelligence, it's a matter of if someone was paying attention to that detail at that specific time rather than something else, and the faster it's presented leaves more room for missing things (like plot elements) to happen.

Again, key word, BALANCE. Series like Naruto also had a shit-load of exposition that was balanced out with other things. Also, I only watched the first 2 eps of Aldnoah Zero.

1) 3 minutes of Ceroa or whatever her name is making a theory, cut to the villains, then cut the main cast where they've already discussed it, as in many cases in anime. "Do not have dialogue that contains info the audience already knows" is something I strongly believe in.
If it's gonna bore the audience, cut it out. Period. Or tweak it in a completely different way. Or hell, DON'T have her come up with the theory, until something chaotic actually does happen. Seems a little weird for characters to be coming up with a theory that has had not even an ounce of proof yet. Have them try to fight the enemy, THEN shit happens, THEN the characters start thinking, "Okay, you know, maybe our presence is causing some kinda disturbance". The consequence of their action already gives us info without relying on padded exposition. This would also lead to conflict among the characters, something that hasn't happened at all in 3 eps.
2) Now this is something interesting: more screentime = more important later on. Still, I don't care, because it bored the shit out of me. Anime exists to sell and entertain the audience, not the characters.

To your point 1) remember that Meteora has her magic book with her, and that it allowed her to easily understand the "laws, physics, nature, political thought, history, and lay-of-the-land of [the] world." Her latest monologue builds off of this, which is why she is constantly testing hypotheses based off of that understanding. Everything in the series so far builds off of the material preceding it.

The "shit happens" has already happened. Both sides are presently marshaling forces and deciding on their courses of action based upon what they know. The Creators' team has the advantage of having Meteora, while Himegimi's team is, to an extent, still stumbling around in the dark. It's clear that Himegimi knows exactly what's going on, but she chooses to withhold information and tell half-truths in order to use the others for her own ends. This, or she sincerely believes that by disrupting the world she could attain a form of godhood that would allow her to preserve the other worlds while destroying or forever changing the world of the creators.

What has happened that's caused an actual disruption of the world, merely by the fantasy characters' PRESENCE? Key word being presence, because so far all the collateral damage has been caused by their ACTIONS. A nearby town didn't just start dissapearing all of a sudden for no logical reason. No, a building blew up because a magical girl and red-haired girl were fighting. There's a difference.

Apr 30, 2017 1:54 PM

#115

adrian_and_sela

Offline

Jun 2012

260

Dude. Nothing happened in this episode. Nothing. It was just Meteora talking about stuff. Yes, it was important stuff, but they all sat in the same room and she went on a great length. It was so dull, considering the action we've been having lately.

There are better ways to present this in an episode. Break it up in pieces or something. At least we got to see some new characters.

Apr 30, 2017 1:54 PM

#116

Ehistox

Offline

May 2016

160

Ok this was filled with a lot more world building, this is all complex but I'm glad they are actually trying to explain how they have came to be in this world.

I am in love with Alictalia she is so pure hearted but is being corrupted by gunpuku, the scene where she saved the plastic bag and had food with mamika was so heart warming in my opinion.

Ahhh Mecha boy is finally here!

Apr 30, 2017 1:56 PM

#117

TheFreycook

Offline

Dec 2016

3522

So in this world if an anime was made about people making an anime, could the anime, inside of the anime, have those characters come to life!? Probably not, but just a thought... :p

“I love heroes, but I don't want to be one. Do you even know what a hero is!? For example, you have some meat. Pirates will feast on the meat, but the hero will distribute it among the people! I want to eat the meat!” - Monkey D. Luffy

Apr 30, 2017 2:09 PM

#118

EHT

Offline

Sep 2016

42

I hope this goes somewhere. It's starting to go too slow

Apr 30, 2017 6:28 PM

#119

UrdnotRekt

Offline

Apr 2017

1

A stupid smile came to my face when i hear gigas machina appeared in our world.
Only 4 episodes so far and no LN o manga to read but i got to say, it is a wonderful anime.
Its kin an old idea and concept but it feels like something new.

Apr 30, 2017 6:48 PM

#120

Frawzt

Offline

Feb 2014

36

I have never been so bored watching an anime literally read out an monologue told by the most monotone characters in the entire show. I understand that they have to build up the world by providing explanations to the events and actions , but it really could have been better balanced. Right now they are just shoveling exposition in the most mundane way possible.

Apr 30, 2017 7:37 PM

#121

kingsheep812

Offline

Dec 2013

520

WOOHOOOOO the ENDING!!!

Trap-chan is here!!!!

Implying that the "guy" in the end is a "male" because his creator referred to him as a "he". If he is, then ITS A TRAP! =3=

overall really nice episode <3

"No one knows what the future holds. That's why its potential is infinite.” - Okabe Rintarou

"El Psy Congroo."

Kirino Kyousake Picture

Apr 30, 2017 9:32 PM

#122

MysteriousBanana

Offline

Jan 2016

395

AnimeFanboy1234 said:
I don't understand what you mean. I've been trying to respond to others in one post by copy and pasting everything they said.

After scrolling up some I see what happened, it was a missing "[/quote]" in this post that everyone continued to quote without fixing the bbcode, which snowballed as the replies got longer and longer.

MysteriousBananaApr 30, 2017 9:38 PM

Apr 30, 2017 10:05 PM

#123

Ahenshihael

Offline

Jul 2007

23708

In this episode ScienceExposition-Chan infodumps us for 20 minutes straight about stuff that does not matter, MC continues to be a blank slate and the we get to see few seconds of badguys. Yaaawn.

Hopefully next episodes are better. This is two episodes of poorly handed infodumps already. Just get on with the actual fights.

Apr 30, 2017 11:23 PM

#124

matias067

Offline

Oct 2008

13724

wow these are some good match-ups!
from the side of the MC, its gonna be Celestia, Meteora, Rui Kanoya and probably Yuuya?
and from the side of Gunpuku no Himegimi, its gonna be: Alicetelia, Mamika Kirameki, and the old dude with a gun (on MAL char page his name is Tokar, Blitz)
The Alchemist-looking girl is the one that hasn't appeared yet...
this episode is full of discussion and no action!
4/5.

May 1, 2017 12:09 AM

#125

firemagnet

Offline

Jul 2014

657

[quote=AnimeFanboy1234 message=50548339]

firemagnet said:

AnimeFanboy1234 said:

klaki892 said:

AnimeFanboy1234 said:

klaki892 said:

AnimeFanboy1234 said:

Why is monologue, "required"? Storytelling is WAY more flexible than people give it credit for: you can use flashbacks, you can cut out characters, etc. People don't write a script by going, "Okay, this is going to be character x, this will be the conflict", and then just let everything flow by itself and then go, "Oh, those boring monologue scenes? They were absolutely necessary! You don't know what you're talking about!"
I've been talking about what little context Fate/Zero gives to its characters *as a stand alone*. I never refereed to how you can just google them, I've been saying you can get a basic idea on who they are JUST from watching fate/zero, and fate/zero alone. Why is what I'm saying here so hard to understand?

Again, countless anime can balance all of that: They can have an ep where if there's no fighting, characters are moving around and doing something interesting, and not talking about something the audience can easily figure out for 10 whole minutes.
The way how you and others are oversimplify peoples' complaints about the lack of action as, "Just wanting action" is really getting on my nerves, but I should not be surpirsed.

In a way, I would say Meteroa's character and the plot progression to this point "required" monologue. Not to mention, from her character we've seen thus far it's usually her job to explain theories and possibilities (and will probably continue)

Im not saying storytelling requires monologue, but in certain situations it does, like the one presented in this episode. I believe that there are few other ways someone could've presented Meteroa's theories and her positioning on the issue without her taking the time to explain it (in her own character's fashion)

One could argue, they could've made that entire scene more interesting by drawing it out at the same time as she's explaining it and thus distracting people on the fact that it was one character talking for 10 minutes (Monogatari does this well)

But on the counter-side, as other people have already pointed out, what Meteora's said (other than saying shes on their side) is still just a theory which the show spent a good deal of time on. I doubt that would've flown over too many peoples head even if the explanation was presented in a different fashion and the complaints would still be there.
Content and context still matters despite it execution. And execution is always a what-if game in retrospect.

Then don't have her monologue. Or don't even bring up the theory. Or never even bring it up. This is what irritates me about this community: the belief that in an anime, some things are INEVITABLE. Do you guys have ANY idea how many drafts writers trash when writing? How many times they go, "Okay, this is dragged out", or, "Okay, I can implement this in a much different way"? The possibilities are endless!
Anyone could've easily processed, "Hey, you know, it is unnatural for these characters to get transported into the real world", these characters could've figured this out within the 1st ep, and just point it out within like 2 minutes. Chop chop. Snap snap. Get on with it.
It seriously is disappointing how Monogatari, a series where all characters do is TALK for whole eps, can do so in much more creative ways.
Hell, all that, "monologue" could've been easily summed up with, "Our existence here is unnatural, therefore we may possibly be causing chaos in the system, which will require to reset itself to fix itself". From how long the monologu was dragged out, it's very clear that Re: Creators has 0 trust in its audience's intelligence.

I know it's not your intention, but the way you mention that they could've not had the monologue at all would be perceived as "speed up to the action" (and as other people have pointed out, that's when you get another Aldnoah's Zero)

That's the *issue* though, no matter what happens it's a double-edged sword when it comes to writing.

Sure, it's possible the story could've pointed out the obvious quicker and been done with it. Maybe Meteora's theory of their current situation could've been cut down a lot shorter.

But then you would see the discussion of this episode instead turn into "okay, she said that, but why?" from many people. Not to mention, some people would probably not like the fact the background and reasoning was summed up in a few lines and only action continued.

The monologue here particularly does multiple things, that some people may just not notice or care (i believe at least)
1. it explains it to the other characters in the show as a means of making sure everyone's on the same page (the creators are still in full "wtf" mode as can be seen when Sora and the manga artist say they are unclear of what Meteora's main point is)
2. (In entertainment-trope fashion) It implies to audience since they spent that much time on it, that the theory most likely has true elements more heavily than if briefly mentioned, and the story is going in that direction. (of course this could also be writing to set up "plot-twists" for later)

My main point is, if the writer's did what you said, i would almost say with a guarantee that in this discussion there would be people complaining that they did it that way. and also other users asking why did they do it that way, and then other users just simply confused at the plot because they didn't process it fast enough.
I'm not saying it's a matter of intelligence, it's a matter of if someone was paying attention to that detail at that specific time rather than something else, and the faster it's presented leaves more room for missing things (like plot elements) to happen.

Again, key word, BALANCE. Series like Naruto also had a shit-load of exposition that was balanced out with other things. Also, I only watched the first 2 eps of Aldnoah Zero.

1) 3 minutes of Ceroa or whatever her name is making a theory, cut to the villains, then cut the main cast where they've already discussed it, as in many cases in anime. "Do not have dialogue that contains info the audience already knows" is something I strongly believe in.
If it's gonna bore the audience, cut it out. Period. Or tweak it in a completely different way. Or hell, DON'T have her come up with the theory, until something chaotic actually does happen. Seems a little weird for characters to be coming up with a theory that has had not even an ounce of proof yet. Have them try to fight the enemy, THEN shit happens, THEN the characters start thinking, "Okay, you know, maybe our presence is causing some kinda disturbance". The consequence of their action already gives us info without relying on padded exposition. This would also lead to conflict among the characters, something that hasn't happened at all in 3 eps.
2) Now this is something interesting: more screentime = more important later on. Still, I don't care, because it bored the shit out of me. Anime exists to sell and entertain the audience, not the characters.

To your point 1) remember that Meteora has her magic book with her, and that it allowed her to easily understand the "laws, physics, nature, political thought, history, and lay-of-the-land of [the] world." Her latest monologue builds off of this, which is why she is constantly testing hypotheses based off of that understanding. Everything in the series so far builds off of the material preceding it.

The "shit happens" has already happened. Both sides are presently marshaling forces and deciding on their courses of action based upon what they know. The Creators' team has the advantage of having Meteora, while Himegimi's team is, to an extent, still stumbling around in the dark. It's clear that Himegimi knows exactly what's going on, but she chooses to withhold information and tell half-truths in order to use the others for her own ends. This, or she sincerely believes that by disrupting the world she could attain a form of godhood that would allow her to preserve the other worlds while destroying or forever changing the world of the creators.

What has happened that's caused an actual disruption of the world, merely by the fantasy characters' PRESENCE? Key word being presence, because so far all the collateral damage has been caused by their ACTIONS. A nearby town didn't just start dissapearing all of a sudden for no logical reason. No, a building blew up because a magical girl and red-haired girl were fighting. There's a difference.

Their actions are a function of their presence, and the way they perform these actions (flight, magic, superhuman strength, etc) is the disruption of the "laws of the universe." You would also do well to keep in mind that the precise form that these disruptions might take has not been detailed yet. You're jumping to conclusions based upon incomplete evidence and your own biases, rather than taking the time to observe.

You're also ignoring what happened in episode 1, and the fallout from that fight. It could take a while for those cracks to form, but it would seem that human belief in the "possibility" of actions that are able to defy the rules of a given world plays a role in this disruption, similar to how in F/SN mythological heroes are accorded strength based upon the age of the myth as well as how well known that myth is.

Fai said:
In this episode ScienceExposition-Chan infodumps us for 20 minutes straight about stuff that does not matter, MC continues to be a blank slate and the we get to see few seconds of badguys. Yaaawn.

Hopefully next episodes are better. This is two episodes of poorly handed infodumps already. Just get on with the actual fights.

Patience, young padawan.

The exposition very much does matter; it's there to flesh out the characters, the world, as well as give context and meaning to the fights that this episode just set up. With Himegimi's pronouncement and the arrival of Rui Kanoya and his mech, all the pieces are in place for the next fight, and the motivations of the characters for fighting have now been established.

Unlike Fate/Stay Night, there is no grand battle royale in which participation is essentially forced through the advocacy of the brutal murder of one's peers, where said peers will stop at nothing and eliminate anyone to claim what amounts to godhood.

There is no broader lore for Re:Creators to rely upon.

Thus, the characters have to be strategically maneuvered into set-piece battles by establishing their significance and motivation beforehand. With this latest episode, this has been established, and the door has been left open for possible wildcards in the form of Kanoya Rui and Blitz Tokar.

The broad outline of the plot is also in place now: Himegimi's team will seek to "save" their worlds by openly "rioting" against the common sense of the world and in doing so effectively rewriting reality be redefining what is "possible." The more people exposed to this, the better for their ends, as each fight and each action that they take that disrupts the "common sense" of the world will make reality more malleable (and thus make it easier to rewrite both their worlds as well as the worlds themselves).

Each of them has clear motive to do this. Himegimi for revenge and quite clearly has either narcisstic tendencies or a messiah complex; Mamika because she operates entirely on the logic of her world; Blitz because, as the other side of the coin where Yuuya is concerned, he finds the whole thing entertaining; Alisteria because she is driven by the need to do right by her world. As someone on another forum pointed out, Alisteria comes from a world so blighted that "... that even a piece of trash is considered valuable."

Meanwhile, Celesia's team will do largely the opposite, abiding by the "common sense" of the world and generally seeking to limit the damage caused by the fights that they will be forced into. They will, in their spare time, make best attempts to find out who Gunpuku no Himegimi's creator is.

I'm going to speculate that if Aoki Ei's past work is any guide, things will have reached critical mass by episode 11; open disruptions in the logic of the world of the creators will likely have appeared as reality and fiction begin to noticeably merge, ending in a crisis-based cliffhanger. By this time, it will likely have been established that Himegimi's creator is also dead, and her Holopsicon will have begun to openly interfere with the world in some way that will not be able to be ignored.

I should also note that the name of Gunpuku no Himegimi's weapon, Holopsicon, seems to be a corruption of two Greek words. Holo (meaning whole or complete) and Opticon (something to be observed or monitored). This, along with her regalia, seems to be in keeping with her character;

She uses imperial cavalry sabres, wears a uniform reminiscent of Imperial Japanese or Prussian officers from the 19th century, and wields a PPSh submachinegun. In addition, she wears a armband that is a deliberate call-out to certain political parties and organizations from WWII. In short, she is adorned with symbols of chaos, war, and imperial domain.

Another note:

according to this source, Rui Kanoya's world is an absolute shithole, where he's essentially fighting a hopeless war against whatever forces are invading it.

firemagnetMay 1, 2017 12:17 AM

May 1, 2017 1:14 AM

#126

firemagnet

Offline

Jul 2014

657

Other note:

https://twitter.com/hiroerei/status/858334736975970304

Hiroe Rei comes out and says Aoki fucked up hard with episode 4, that Aoki "committed a cardinal sin of entertainment" by making the monologue far too long and trying to cover for it by throwing in a tea party and a quasi-yuri scene. He said it was so boring that it "made tea turbid."

Original text:

第４話おわりー。セリフが多いのはワイの罪。そういうところはあおきさんがうまいことやってる食事や百合百合したシーンでお茶を濁して欲しいのやで…

May 1, 2017 1:42 AM

#127

Rei_III

Offline

Dec 2015

6501

I am not fond of action and dislike shows who cram an action scene in each episode forthe sake of it.
I love reading (novels included), I love fictions "with a story" in general and the TV double-finale of Evangelion is part of my favourite animation episodes. Yet, I found what others have the pretension to call "info-dumping" here extremely annoying. We have to "eat" everything the exposition NPC proposes as facts and her paroles contain more fluff and repetition than actual pieces of info ! (her game's dialogues writer was probably bad). It's not info-dumping, it's air-dumping despite how heavy it is.

This is not how full-length series (with a single story) are usually made: past the first two episodes who introduce and trigger the story, there are a few character ("episodic") episodes while a few little events happen, before the culmination of the events chain displayed at the middle episode (sometimes a two-parter). Where an important element is brought to the table and shakes things enough to go on with the second half, who has more eventful episodes.

2/5 At least, we got a few character depictions through some pictures and brief scenes.

Rei_IIIMay 1, 2017 1:51 AM

About Gundam

May 1, 2017 2:05 AM

#128

GangsterCat

Offline

Sep 2016

4624

meteora is those kind of people who talks a lot but says very little

CrossAnge

Hey guys check my profile for current airing season anime recommendation (guaranteed best taste)

May 1, 2017 3:40 AM

#129

AnimeFanboy1234

Offline

Nov 2016

325

[quote=firemagnet message=50554692][quote=AnimeFanboy1234 message=50548339]

firemagnet said:

AnimeFanboy1234 said:

klaki892 said:

AnimeFanboy1234 said:

klaki892 said:

AnimeFanboy1234 said:

Why is monologue, "required"? Storytelling is WAY more flexible than people give it credit for: you can use flashbacks, you can cut out characters, etc. People don't write a script by going, "Okay, this is going to be character x, this will be the conflict", and then just let everything flow by itself and then go, "Oh, those boring monologue scenes? They were absolutely necessary! You don't know what you're talking about!"
I've been talking about what little context Fate/Zero gives to its characters *as a stand alone*. I never refereed to how you can just google them, I've been saying you can get a basic idea on who they are JUST from watching fate/zero, and fate/zero alone. Why is what I'm saying here so hard to understand?

Again, countless anime can balance all of that: They can have an ep where if there's no fighting, characters are moving around and doing something interesting, and not talking about something the audience can easily figure out for 10 whole minutes.
The way how you and others are oversimplify peoples' complaints about the lack of action as, "Just wanting action" is really getting on my nerves, but I should not be surpirsed.

In a way, I would say Meteroa's character and the plot progression to this point "required" monologue. Not to mention, from her character we've seen thus far it's usually her job to explain theories and possibilities (and will probably continue)

Im not saying storytelling requires monologue, but in certain situations it does, like the one presented in this episode. I believe that there are few other ways someone could've presented Meteroa's theories and her positioning on the issue without her taking the time to explain it (in her own character's fashion)

One could argue, they could've made that entire scene more interesting by drawing it out at the same time as she's explaining it and thus distracting people on the fact that it was one character talking for 10 minutes (Monogatari does this well)

But on the counter-side, as other people have already pointed out, what Meteora's said (other than saying shes on their side) is still just a theory which the show spent a good deal of time on. I doubt that would've flown over too many peoples head even if the explanation was presented in a different fashion and the complaints would still be there.
Content and context still matters despite it execution. And execution is always a what-if game in retrospect.

Then don't have her monologue. Or don't even bring up the theory. Or never even bring it up. This is what irritates me about this community: the belief that in an anime, some things are INEVITABLE. Do you guys have ANY idea how many drafts writers trash when writing? How many times they go, "Okay, this is dragged out", or, "Okay, I can implement this in a much different way"? The possibilities are endless!
Anyone could've easily processed, "Hey, you know, it is unnatural for these characters to get transported into the real world", these characters could've figured this out within the 1st ep, and just point it out within like 2 minutes. Chop chop. Snap snap. Get on with it.
It seriously is disappointing how Monogatari, a series where all characters do is TALK for whole eps, can do so in much more creative ways.
Hell, all that, "monologue" could've been easily summed up with, "Our existence here is unnatural, therefore we may possibly be causing chaos in the system, which will require to reset itself to fix itself". From how long the monologu was dragged out, it's very clear that Re: Creators has 0 trust in its audience's intelligence.

I know it's not your intention, but the way you mention that they could've not had the monologue at all would be perceived as "speed up to the action" (and as other people have pointed out, that's when you get another Aldnoah's Zero)

That's the *issue* though, no matter what happens it's a double-edged sword when it comes to writing.

Sure, it's possible the story could've pointed out the obvious quicker and been done with it. Maybe Meteora's theory of their current situation could've been cut down a lot shorter.

But then you would see the discussion of this episode instead turn into "okay, she said that, but why?" from many people. Not to mention, some people would probably not like the fact the background and reasoning was summed up in a few lines and only action continued.

The monologue here particularly does multiple things, that some people may just not notice or care (i believe at least)
1. it explains it to the other characters in the show as a means of making sure everyone's on the same page (the creators are still in full "wtf" mode as can be seen when Sora and the manga artist say they are unclear of what Meteora's main point is)
2. (In entertainment-trope fashion) It implies to audience since they spent that much time on it, that the theory most likely has true elements more heavily than if briefly mentioned, and the story is going in that direction. (of course this could also be writing to set up "plot-twists" for later)

My main point is, if the writer's did what you said, i would almost say with a guarantee that in this discussion there would be people complaining that they did it that way. and also other users asking why did they do it that way, and then other users just simply confused at the plot because they didn't process it fast enough.
I'm not saying it's a matter of intelligence, it's a matter of if someone was paying attention to that detail at that specific time rather than something else, and the faster it's presented leaves more room for missing things (like plot elements) to happen.

Again, key word, BALANCE. Series like Naruto also had a shit-load of exposition that was balanced out with other things. Also, I only watched the first 2 eps of Aldnoah Zero.

1) 3 minutes of Ceroa or whatever her name is making a theory, cut to the villains, then cut the main cast where they've already discussed it, as in many cases in anime. "Do not have dialogue that contains info the audience already knows" is something I strongly believe in.
If it's gonna bore the audience, cut it out. Period. Or tweak it in a completely different way. Or hell, DON'T have her come up with the theory, until something chaotic actually does happen. Seems a little weird for characters to be coming up with a theory that has had not even an ounce of proof yet. Have them try to fight the enemy, THEN shit happens, THEN the characters start thinking, "Okay, you know, maybe our presence is causing some kinda disturbance". The consequence of their action already gives us info without relying on padded exposition. This would also lead to conflict among the characters, something that hasn't happened at all in 3 eps.
2) Now this is something interesting: more screentime = more important later on. Still, I don't care, because it bored the shit out of me. Anime exists to sell and entertain the audience, not the characters.

To your point 1) remember that Meteora has her magic book with her, and that it allowed her to easily understand the "laws, physics, nature, political thought, history, and lay-of-the-land of [the] world." Her latest monologue builds off of this, which is why she is constantly testing hypotheses based off of that understanding. Everything in the series so far builds off of the material preceding it.

The "shit happens" has already happened. Both sides are presently marshaling forces and deciding on their courses of action based upon what they know. The Creators' team has the advantage of having Meteora, while Himegimi's team is, to an extent, still stumbling around in the dark. It's clear that Himegimi knows exactly what's going on, but she chooses to withhold information and tell half-truths in order to use the others for her own ends. This, or she sincerely believes that by disrupting the world she could attain a form of godhood that would allow her to preserve the other worlds while destroying or forever changing the world of the creators.

What has happened that's caused an actual disruption of the world, merely by the fantasy characters' PRESENCE? Key word being presence, because so far all the collateral damage has been caused by their ACTIONS. A nearby town didn't just start dissapearing all of a sudden for no logical reason. No, a building blew up because a magical girl and red-haired girl were fighting. There's a difference.

Their actions are a function of their presence, and the way they perform these actions (flight, magic, superhuman strength, etc) is the disruption of the "laws of the universe." You would also do well to keep in mind that the precise form that these disruptions might take has not been detailed yet. You're jumping to conclusions based upon incomplete evidence and your own biases, rather than taking the time to observe.

You're also ignoring what happened in episode 1, and the fallout from that fight. It could take a while for those cracks to form, but it would seem that human belief in the "possibility" of actions that are able to defy the rules of a given world plays a role in this disruption, similar to how in F/SN mythological heroes are accorded strength based upon the age of the myth as well as how well known that myth is.

"based upon incomplete evidence and your own biases, rather than taking the time to observe."
You know what, fine, I'm done talking to you guys about this, because we've gotten to the point where you are so desperate to prove yourselves right that you are putting words in my mouth, and treating me like a moron, and once again, have 0 clue on what you are saying, because you don't even know the obvious definition of bias. Google it. Do whatever you want with what I say, say that I haven't even watched the anime for all I care, which you are basically doing!
Jesus, and I thought YouTube comments were stupid.

AnimeFanboy1234May 1, 2017 2:07 PM

May 1, 2017 4:02 AM

#130

Lumecyow

Offline

Apr 2016

1749

The first part was slow but the last was pretty good ~

AND THE CHARACTER AT THE END SEEMS SO CUTE

ashes of our chaos

❝ They went looking for the gods,
and died in lonely places ❞

May 1, 2017 4:36 AM

#131

LobsterRyoma

Offline

Sep 2009

415

firemagnet said:
Other note:

https://twitter.com/hiroerei/status/858334736975970304

Hiroe Rei comes out and says Aoki fucked up hard with episode 4, that Aoki "committed a cardinal sin of entertainment" by making the monologue far too long and trying to cover for it by throwing in a tea party and a quasi-yuri scene. He said it was so boring that it "made tea turbid."

Original text:

第４話おわりー。セリフが多いのはワイの罪。そういうところはあおきさんがうまいことやってる食事や百合百合したシーンでお茶を濁して欲しいのやで…

It's refreshing to see creators being so earnest and critical of their own work/peers. While I did not hate the episode and am keeping faith, I can understand why people wouldn't like this ep that much. I'm not afraid to admit I dozed off for half a minute somewhere there.

May 1, 2017 5:39 AM

#132

Ranxomare

🥊 CHAMPION 🥊

Offline

Apr 2016

25247

Predictable plot: The world is near to end!!! O__O kekeke
Here, to this series, how to wait how evolve in the next 2 episodes, because this 4 startes episode only was the introduction ;)

May 1, 2017 9:48 AM

#133

Ahenshihael

Offline

Jul 2007

23708

firemagnet said:

The exposition very much does matter; it's there to flesh out the characters, the world, as well as give context and meaning to the fights that this episode just set up. With Himegimi's pronouncement and the arrival of Rui Kanoya and his mech, all the pieces are in place for the next fight, and the motivations of the characters for fighting have now been established.

But we know exact same amount of info about each character and each character is still the same stereotype they were from the very first episode.

Unlike Fate/Stay Night, there is no grand battle royale in which participation is essentially forced through the advocacy of the brutal murder of one's peers, where said peers will stop at nothing and eliminate anyone to claim what amounts to godhood.

No, instead we have a battle royale between two factions one of which is seemingly trying to surprise surprise, end the world in all of it's generic glory.

There is no broader lore for Re:Creators to rely upon.

Fate also built up its own lore. So? Does not excuse the way Recreators is delivering the said lore or the fact that it is dull.

Thus, the characters have to be strategically maneuvered into set-piece battles by establishing their significance and motivation beforehand. With this latest episode, this has been established, and the door has been left open for possible wildcards in the form of Kanoya Rui and Blitz Tokar.

Characters being placed in their positions does not require two episodes of a single character blabbering technobabble.

The broad outline of the plot is also in place now: Himegimi's team will seek to "save" their worlds by openly "rioting" against the common sense of the world and in doing so effectively rewriting reality be redefining what is "possible." The more people exposed to this, the better for their ends, as each fight and each action that they take that disrupts the "common sense" of the world will make reality more malleable (and thus make it easier to rewrite both their worlds as well as the worlds themselves).

Most of that was already clear except for common sense part. Which could have been literally stated in single sentence, again.

Each of them has clear motive to do this. Himegimi for revenge and quite clearly has either narcisstic tendencies or a messiah complex; Mamika because she operates entirely on the logic of her world; Blitz because, as the other side of the coin where Yuuya is concerned, he finds the whole thing entertaining; Alisteria because she is driven by the need to do right by her world. As someone on another forum pointed out, Alisteria comes from a world so blighted that "... that even a piece of trash is considered valuable."

Meanwhile, Celesia's team will do largely the opposite, abiding by the "common sense" of the world and generally seeking to limit the damage caused by the fights that they will be forced into. They will, in their spare time, make best attempts to find out who Gunpuku no Himegimi's creator is.

And again none of that required three episodes of infodumping?
Its extremely basic noncomplex motivations that could have been delivered in half the time show spent grandstanding about creations and fiction and other stuff.

I'm going to speculate that if Aoki Ei's past work is any guide, things will have reached critical mass by episode 11; open disruptions in the logic of the world of the creators will likely have appeared as reality and fiction begin to noticeably merge, ending in a crisis-based cliffhanger. By this time, it will likely have been established that Himegimi's creator is also dead, and her Holopsicon will have begun to openly interfere with the world in some way that will not be able to be ignored.

Episode 11 is the midway point for the show, no shit it should reach its midpoint of SOMETHING happening by them.

BlandMCKun is so very obviously the white haired chick's creator tho.

firemagnet said:
Other note:

https://twitter.com/hiroerei/status/858334736975970304

Hiroe Rei comes out and says Aoki fucked up hard with episode 4, that Aoki "committed a cardinal sin of entertainment" by making the monologue far too long and trying to cover for it by throwing in a tea party and a quasi-yuri scene. He said it was so boring that it "made tea turbid."

Original text:

第４話おわりー。セリフが多いのはワイの罪。そういうところはあおきさんがうまいことやってる食事や百合百合したシーンでお茶を濁して欲しいのやで…

Wrong. He literally jokingly says that he himself is too blame for how wordy the episode is and hopes people enjoyed food and yuri at least which are thanks to Aoki Eir.

May 1, 2017 11:28 AM

#134

Anti-Agelast

Offline

Jun 2016

132

Fai said:

But we know exact same amount of info about each character and each character is still the same stereotype they were from the very first episode.

Speak for yourself, I learned quite a lot about Meteora, Mamika and Aliceteria this episode.

No, instead we have a battle royale between two factions one of which is seemingly trying to surprise surprise, end the world in all of it's generic glory.

Perhaps you missed the point that MUP's faction is hardly united.

Fate also built up its own lore. So? Does not excuse the way Recreators is delivering the said lore or the fact that it is dull.

Fate had a simple and built-in premise: Battle royale for the Holy Grail. This series doesn't I'd at least like the characters to flesh out why they're fighting before actually fighting.

And again none of that required three episodes of infodumping?
Its extremely basic noncomplex motivations that could have been delivered in half the time show spent grandstanding about creations and fiction and other stuff.

Better the show takes it's time, which it has plenty of, to flesh out character motivations, rather than jumping straight into fighting.

BlandMCKun is so very obviously the white haired chick's creator tho.

Doubt that actually.

May 1, 2017 12:49 PM

#135

firemagnet

Offline

Jul 2014

657

Anti-Agelast said: