NoobStomper said: Yes, I got mistaken because your discussion got really messy and you stated the opposite of what you are trying to say in that post, or so I got it.zal said: Asspulls make a story worse. Even if some people don't mind eating shit that makes their diet worse. Even if some people don't mind a show with asspulls that makes the story worse. Especially in a show that is story-driven asspulls are bad, in other cases (character driven, enjoyment driven etc) it depends on the gravity of the asspull. An asspull breaks the intrinsic logic of the show thus making it incoherent therefore logically worse. I understand all that and I wasn't making a claim that asspulls are good for the story, I was merely using it as an example to make a point in my previous posts about opinions and how just because there are people that likes or are ok with certain flaws with a show, it doesn't make it any better. @esper Same can be said about anything in entertainment mediums, who decides what is a well written story?... who decides what is good theme exploration?... who decides etc...... individuals. not individuals but logic. If it is illogical you can say it is bad written despite the opinions of others. However, sometimes there are different ways to apply logic with different outcomes and it comes down to argumentation. |
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| who said pacing is objective again? |
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zal said: We are discussing where pacing is view differently by each person. A said "story X got bad pacing" meanwhile B said "story X pacing just nice". So I am using asspull as example for factual argument. A said that "Story X got asspull", B cant denied cause asspull is fact. Like it or not, fact is fact. That is all. And he dont get my point. Yes, I got mistaken because your discussion got really messy and you stated the opposite of what you are trying to say in that post, or so I got it. @esper Same can be said about anything in entertainment mediums, who decides what is a well written story?... who decides what is good theme exploration?... who decides etc...... individuals. not individuals but logic. If it is illogical you can say it is bad written despite the opinions of others. However, sometimes there are different ways to apply logic with different outcomes and it comes down to argumentation. |
EsperMay 23, 2016 6:30 AM
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truisms said: as if most anime (even the ones preferred by elitists) are postmodern tho. n surely you agree that the constructs that lead to certain people preferring certain works of art for certain psychological reasons are universal and not specific to elitists in any way Quite frankly, never thought about it. Is there any empirical evidence to support this claim? It'll be interesting to see the results of an actual experiment. |
Esper said: In that case I think it is a matter of argumentation if you want to watch it from the quality perspective, if not it is mostly subjective.zal said: We are discussing where pacing is view differently by each person. A said "story X got bad pacing" meanwhile B said "story X pacing just nice". And for that asspull, A said that "Story X got asspull", B cant denied cause asspull is fact. Like it or not, fact is fact. That is all. And he dont get my point. Yes, I got mistaken because your discussion got really messy and you stated the opposite of what you are trying to say in that post, or so I got it. @espernot individuals but logic. If it is illogical you can say it is bad written despite the opinions of others. However, sometimes there are different ways to apply logic with different outcomes and it comes down to argumentation. |
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MajorZero said: truisms said: as if most anime (even the ones preferred by elitists) are postmodern tho. n surely you agree that the constructs that lead to certain people preferring certain works of art for certain psychological reasons are universal and not specific to elitists in any way Quite frankly, never thought about it. Is there any empirical evidence to support this claim? It'll be interesting to see the results of an actual experiment. no but i don't find it possible to easily divorce the claim that a single group's taste is determined solely through posturing and that conclusion |
Mayuka said: did you call holier than thou bitch right here last.fm |
truisms said: no but i don't find it possible to easily divorce the claim that a single group's taste is determined solely through posturing and that conclusion Shouldn't we talk about individuals rather than the whole group? At least we should narrow our sample size. |
zal said: For pacing, people can still denied it cause there are no method to determine pacing. That asspull topic come from pacing topic. I use that as example for factual argument that people can't denied. Like it or not, asspull is undeniable. Esper said: In that case I think it is a matter of argumentation if you want to watch it from the quality perspective, if not it is mostly subjective.We are discussing where pacing is view differently by each person. A said "story X got bad pacing" meanwhile B said "story X pacing just nice". And for that asspull, A said that "Story X got asspull", B cant denied cause asspull is fact. Like it or not, fact is fact. That is all. And he dont get my point. Show A got bad pacing - Deniable Show A got asspull - Undeniable |
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NoobStomper said: Esper said: We are discussing where pacing is view differently by each person. A said "story X got bad pacing" meanwhile B said "story X pacing just nice". So I am using asspull as example for factual argument. A said that "Story X got asspull", B cant denied cause asspull is fact. Like it or not, fact is fact. That is all. And he dont get my point. It seems that you are the one that don't get my point then. This whole argument was that, AOT had inconsistent pacing therefore the pacing was bad. The objectivity here is that the pacing is inconsistent and the subjective remark is that "it is bad", you say that we shouldn't use the "subjective" line in a review because it is like saying it is a universal facts when it isn't, it is simply your assumption. Now then you switched over to saying Asspulls are a fact and that it is "a weakness of the story". I never once stated that asspulls itself aren't facts, but the conclusion drawn from it like "the story is worse", "it is poorly written" and "it is exciting" are opinions. Do you not see the similarities from my point in that, there is an objective fact and a subjective conclusion in both of these arguments?.... So why is it a review can throw out a subjective conclusion for one thing but can't for another?.....or are you going to tell me a review shouldn't write any subjective statements in theirs at all?.. like the ones mentioned above?.. because if so then you completely mistaken about what a review should be. Your point of view will derail into another taste discussion, since how a thing that is bad for the story is considered depends on the spectator: people looking for entertainment will surely enjoy the asspulls, since they are random and thus unexpected, giving them thrills or feels or whatnot, while those looking for a good story would not like asspulls since they are an easy way for the author to handle the problem at hand, ruining the inmersion. Also, a reviewer would do good in not ignoring facts (ie asspulls) in their reviews, despite how much they enjoyed such asspulls, since by doing so he expresses bias and unfair judgement, unless they are doing another thing, like analysis of art or premise, or they have a thing for doing subjective reviews, which I think is more akin to analyses I think, if I'm using the words correctly. |
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MajorZero said: you were the one who initially brought up the group i mention here... "not so bright kids [...]"truisms said: no but i don't find it possible to easily divorce the claim that a single group's taste is determined solely through posturing and that conclusion Shouldn't we talk about individuals rather than the whole group? At least we should narrow our sample size. i've been referring back only to your claims |
Mayuka said: did you call holier than thou bitch right here last.fm |
| I don't believe in this idea of "objectivity" since it's virtually impossible for anyone to be objective about anything, you'll need to be a robot that merely spits out facts. Hence what is a 'good' and 'bad' anime is totally subjective. Reviews are subjective and it encompasses personal enjoyment, personal evaluation and 'criticism' of the show, loosely based on the reviewer's 'preferences.' Hence a reviewer's opinions has logical flaws since humans are flawed beings. This can be said for other mediums too. #justsaying. |
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NoobStomper said: All reviews are subjective btw, there is no such a thing as an objective reviewer, there is going to be bias. I disagree. If you recognize your biases, you can give reviews as unbiased as possible. THey are still subjective yes, but by removing the bias they are pretty close to objectivity. There's also the unreliance of relativism on your point of view, since relying on it is another way of bias (everything is good in the end) Add experience and knowing what you are talking about and presto, objective reviews. Not that I'm there yet, I suck at objectivity. |
| It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye. But does the heart have the right perspective? |
truisms said: you were the one who initially brought up the group i mention here... "not so bright kids [...]" i've been referring back only to your claims Well, most of the people I've met who use 2deep4U as a defence argument are indeed not so bright kids who are seeking to prove their superiority. Wanna tell me you've never met this type of people in the internet? |
NoobStomper said: The issue was your example. The conclusion from the asspull is not subjective as I stated before. The reasoning for the pacing is not wrong but you chose the wrong comparison. Saying that asspull makes the story worse is a fact not an opinion, the opinion in this case comes to play is when you ignore the fact.Esper said: We are discussing where pacing is view differently by each person. A said "story X got bad pacing" meanwhile B said "story X pacing just nice". So I am using asspull as example for factual argument. A said that "Story X got asspull", B cant denied cause asspull is fact. Like it or not, fact is fact. That is all. And he dont get my point. It seems that you are the one that don't get my point then. This whole argument was that, AOT had inconsistent pacing therefore the pacing was bad. The objectivity here is that the pacing is inconsistent and the subjective remark is that "it is bad", you say that we shouldn't use the "subjective" line in a review because it is like saying it is a universal facts, but you are just assuming that. Now then you switched over to saying Asspulls are a fact and that it is "a weakness of the story". I never once stated that asspulls itself aren't facts, but the conclusion drawn from it like "the story is worse", "it is poorly written" and "it is exciting" are opinions. Do you not see the similarities from my point in that, there is an objective fact and a subjective conclusion in both of these arguments?.... So why is it a review can throw out a subjective conclusion for one thing but can't for another?.....or are you going to tell me a review shouldn't write any subjective statements in there at all?.. like the ones mentioned above?.. because if so then you completely mistaken about what a review or even what online arguments should be about. @esper As for the pacing, if you give motivation you can say it is bad because you are basing the judgement on the motivation and not on absolute terms. |
zalMay 23, 2016 7:50 AM
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NoobStomper said: Before continue with other topic, let me confirm this with you. Esper said: We are discussing where pacing is view differently by each person. A said "story X got bad pacing" meanwhile B said "story X pacing just nice". So I am using asspull as example for factual argument. A said that "Story X got asspull", B cant denied cause asspull is fact. Like it or not, fact is fact. That is all. And he dont get my point. It seems that you are the one that don't get my point then. This whole argument was that, AOT had inconsistent pacing therefore the pacing was bad. The objectivity here is that the pacing is inconsistent and the subjective remark is that "it is bad", you say that we shouldn't use the "subjective" line in a review because it is like saying it is a universal facts, but you are just assuming that. Now then you switched over to saying Asspulls are a fact and that it is "a weakness of the story". I never once stated that asspulls itself aren't facts, but the conclusion drawn from it like "the story is worse", "it is poorly written" and "it is exciting" are opinions. Do you not see the similarities from my point in that, there is an objective fact and a subjective conclusion in both of these arguments?.... So why is it a review can throw out a subjective conclusion for one thing but can't for another?.....or are you going to tell me a review shouldn't write any subjective statements in there at all?.. like the ones mentioned above?.. because if so then you completely mistaken about what a review or even what online arguments should be about. This whole argument was that, AOT had inconsistent pacing therefore the pacing was bad. The objectivity here is that the pacing is inconsistent and the subjective remark is that "it is bad" It is bad = subjective? If that is subjective statement, the whole discussion is pointless cause I view that as objective. I dont know about other people but from my POV, that is objective. |
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NoobStomper said: An asspull can be logically proven so. Doesn't that make it kinda objective?zal said: The issue was your example. The conclusion from the asspull is not subjective as I stated before. The reasoning for the pacing is not wrong but you chose the wrong comparison. Saying that asspull makes the story worse is a fact not an opinion, the opinion in this case comes to play is when you ignore the fact. As for the pacing, if you motivate it you can say it is bad because you are basing the judgement on the motivation and not on absolute terms. When you mean the conclusion, do you mean the one quoted from below?.. because if so, I don't see how that was objective at all. Your conclusion was that asspulls makes the story worse, which is basically the same conclusion that I would write, but it is still subjective. The comparison with the whole eating shit thing is the wrong comparison if anything because one can actually be prove with science (which is where you can logically explain things), but you cannot logically explain whether X things makes a story worse in an narrative because there is no science behind it. In art forms, it all boils down to rationalizing your opinions which means SUBJECTIVITY, an opinion that has proper rational behind it will be far better than one that doesn't have that. zal said: Asspulls make a story worse. Even if some people don't mind eating shit that makes their diet worse. Even if some people don't mind a show with asspulls that makes the story worse. Especially in a show that is story-driven asspulls are bad, in other cases (character driven, enjoyment driven etc) it depends on the gravity of the asspull. An asspull breaks the intrinsic logic of the show thus making it incoherent therefore logically worse. |
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NoobStomper said: Yes because it breaks The Law of Conservation of Detailzal said: An asspull can be logically proven so. Doesn't that make it kinda objective? You can prove that asspulls exist but can you actually prove that it makes the story worse?.. in a similar fashion in proving that eating shit is bad for your health?..I wouldn't think so, it all comes to an opinion, its a good opinion because one can easily rationalize it, but still an opinion nonetheless. |
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NoobStomper said: @Kuma @zal What is your take in this statement? Esper said: It is bad = subjective? If that is subjective statement, the whole discussion is pointless cause I view that as objective. I dont know about other people but from my POV, that is objective. Yes it is subjective, like whats pretty much said here, whether something is good or bad in an entertainment medium are opinions. AOT had inconsistent pacing therefore the pacing was bad |
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Esper said: Not very convincing because the motivation is weak and sounds more like an opinion. If the "inconsistencies" were elaborated more I would consider it a valid perspective.NoobStomper said: @Kuma @zal What is your take in this statement? Yes it is subjective, like whats pretty much said here, whether something is good or bad in an entertainment medium are opinions. AOT had inconsistent pacing therefore the pacing was bad |
zalMay 23, 2016 8:32 AM
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Esper said: i don't watch AOT yet, so i can't said anything about it.. as inconcistensies pacing, ever heard tone shifting? one of the way of it by change the pace.. so i don't get how incosistencies pacing can be bad... consistancies pacing infact is bad, because consistancies pacing will treated every scane whatever atmosphere it is and how important the scane it is have same pace (like 1.2- 0.8 chapter per episode one piece)... the only pacing that incosistance enough to piss me off is suzumiya haruhi (endliess 8 T_T),@Kuma @zal What is your take in this statement? AOT had inconsistent pacing therefore the pacing was bad |
KumaMay 23, 2016 8:28 AM
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
MajorZero said: truisms said: you were the one who initially brought up the group i mention here... "not so bright kids [...]" i've been referring back only to your claims Well, most of the people I've met who use 2deep4U as a defence argument are indeed not so bright kids who are seeking to prove their superiority. Wanna tell me you've never met this type of people in the internet? sure, and many of the people i've met who made the argument you're making now were equally not so bright. it's irrelevant |
Mayuka said: did you call holier than thou bitch right here last.fm |
truisms said: sure, and many of the people i've met who made the argument you're making now were equally not so bright. it's irrelevant Sounds like you took my words way too personally mate. In any case, it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, if you have something to say you're free to do so on my profile page. |
MajorZeroMay 23, 2016 8:44 AM
NoobStomper said: You can prove that asspulls exist but can you actually prove that it makes the story worse?.. in a similar fashion in proving that eating shit is bad for your health?..I wouldn't think so, when it comes art or narratives or whatever, it comes to an opinion. Asspull makes the story worse is a good opinion because one can easily rationalize it, but still an opinion nonetheless. Asspulls and dem are 'nonsensical' things or events happening in a 'serious' setting, that way they are considered bad writing if they are transgressing the show's logic or if they are not used for comedy. |
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NoobStomper said: There are rules and laws to writing, it is not just about whatever the author wants to write. Since these rules are widely recognised they are the meter to judge the relevant field. Your type of complain come from not knowing more about the field (not that I know much more).zal said: Yes because it breaks The Law of Conservation of Detail That alone still doesn't prove that its bad, since this law were made from observing how people tend to allocate details into something rather than actual science. People are more likely to state that asspulls are bad because they destroy continuity than stating because it breaks some law. Then let me put it like this: it is not bad in absolute terms but in relation to other books/anime/whatever. Would you buy a ps2? Normally no because it is bad. It is not bad because it sucks but because there are better alternatives (although some would buy it for nostalgia). If the progress in a certain filed has achieved new heights then the bar for good and bad rises. When in writing there are lets say 100 techniques established and you use only 5, most likely that book will be considered quite bad. Using an asspull is a sign that the author didn't think his story very well, didn't do the proper preparation for certain events to feel natural. It is a lack from the writer. It is cheap therefore qualitatively bad. |
zalMay 23, 2016 8:46 AM
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| ''Pretentiousness'', anyone that uses that to say an anime is bad should have all of his credibility taken away, like seriously that's one of the most retarded things i've heard. Other things that are bad criticism : - Genre ( Criticizing something because it has a certain genre ) - Demographics ( Same as above but with Demographics ) - Archetypes ( Unless that character is nothing else than that archetype ) - Pacing ( Unless it really is extremely bad like Angel Beats/Charlotte, but a slow pacing is not necessarily worse than a fast one. Angel Beats and Charlotte lost points to me because of how bad their pacing was. ) - Art Style ( It's ok to take off a point or so if you really find the artstyle ( Or animation ) bad, but saying an anime is bad because of that is stupid. - Unoriginality ( Now that depends, but if an anime starts off unoriginal then that doesn't mean it's bad, after that if it stays completely unoriginal then i can understand. Original anime also aren't necessarily good... ) - Flashbacks ( Actually those are generally a good thing as it fleshes out both the story and the characters, so i don't see why some retards think it's a bad thing. ) Some exemples of good criticism : - Bad writing ( Plotholes, Asspulls and the likes. This is simply a bad things ) - Excessive fanservice ( To a point where it just fucks the story up ) - Bad characters ( Those can can be characters with no personality or characters that have no fleshing out at all, there are a couple reasons why characters could be bad BUT a character with no developments is not necessarily bad, a lot of people in real life don't change at all, or almost, does that make them bad people ? No. Character development is a plus, but the lack of it is not necessarily a minus. ) |
TheKawaiiZombieMay 23, 2016 9:48 AM
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MajorZero said: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯truisms said: sure, and many of the people i've met who made the argument you're making now were equally not so bright. it's irrelevant Sounds like you took my words way too personally mate. In any case, it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, if you have something to say you're free to do so on my profile page. |
Mayuka said: did you call holier than thou bitch right here last.fm |
Esper said: Discussing pacing is quite complicated because by itself means nothing. Usual "depends on execution", some things need a slow pace and other a fast one. And it becomes boring if the pace is always the same so even "inconsistent" becomes quite irrelevant. In this case, given the wide interpretation I think that statement could be considered more of an opinion than a fact.@zal Yup, it can be a valid perspective but it is still opinion right? I mean the "scale" the that use to measure the pacing. @Kuma Yup, and roller coaster is very enjoyable from that shift between slow and fast phase. If I remember correctly (I saw it while airing) AoT did indeed have pacing issues because of the big difference in pacing between the action episodes and the non-action ones. For some the calm moments can be a build up, for others a struggle. I think the key issue of the pacing might be the missing climax for the hype. I remember that even I was quite hyped up in watching it but after the fight and the intense scenes there was a lot of disappointment. |
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zal said: Esper said: Discussing pacing is quite complicated because by itself means nothing. Usual "depends on execution", some things need a slow pace and other a fast one. And it becomes boring if the pace is always the same so even "inconsistent" becomes quite irrelevant. In this case, given the wide interpretation I think that statement could be considered more of an opinion than a fact.@zal Yup, it can be a valid perspective but it is still opinion right? I mean the "scale" the that use to measure the pacing. @Kuma Yup, and roller coaster is very enjoyable from that shift between slow and fast phase. If I remember correctly (I saw it while airing) AoT did indeed have pacing issues because of the big difference in pacing between the action episodes and the non-action ones. For some the calm moments can be a build up, for others a struggle. I think the key issue of the pacing might be the missing climax for the hype. I remember that even I was quite hyped up in watching it but after the fight and the intense scenes there was a lot of disappointment. Yes, pacing is not a good criticism BUT sometimes it is so bad that it partly ruins the anime, Angel Beats is an exemple of that, they COMPLETELY fucked up the last 4 episodes, there should have been at least 20 episodes to Angel Beats for it to have a good pacing. They didn't just rush it a bit, it's like there were fucking timeskips out of nowhere... I understand they might have had budget problems but that doesn't excuse that bad a pacing, they should have just made 2 seasons. |
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TheKawaiiZombie said: ''Pretentiousness'', anyone that uses that to say an anime is bad should have all of his credibility taken away, like seriously that's one of the most retarded things i've heard. When talking about story and themes, yes, it actually is. You've lost credibility for believing it's a retarded claim. |
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KoreaWS said: TheKawaiiZombie said: ''Pretentiousness'', anyone that uses that to say an anime is bad should have all of his credibility taken away, like seriously that's one of the most retarded things i've heard. When talking about story and themes, yes, it actually is. You've lost credibility for believing it's a retarded claim. No, as a matter of fact, it is a retarded claim. It is pretty much to story what a ''Pussy'' character claim is to characters. Edit : Also, anyone could say that any anime is ''pretentious'' Humans are pretentious for thinking they are better than animals even though they're not. An author can be pretentious, but saying the work is pretentious is pretty stupid. Pretentiousness is just pretending something is better without having much things to support it. Saying a 100 lives are worth more than 1 is pretentious, does that mean Fate/Zero is bad ? No, it doesn't. I hate when people think lives are math and think 100 is necessarily worth more than 1 yet i fucking love Fate/Zero, and i hate Kiritsugu but he is a great character, there is no denying that. |
TheKawaiiZombieMay 23, 2016 10:07 AM
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TheKawaiiZombie said: However you are not criticising the pacing itself but the misuse of fast pacing for events that require slower pacing to be absorbed by the viewer.zal said: Discussing pacing is quite complicated because by itself means nothing. Usual "depends on execution", some things need a slow pace and other a fast one. And it becomes boring if the pace is always the same so even "inconsistent" becomes quite irrelevant. In this case, given the wide interpretation I think that statement could be considered more of an opinion than a fact. If I remember correctly (I saw it while airing) AoT did indeed have pacing issues because of the big difference in pacing between the action episodes and the non-action ones. For some the calm moments can be a build up, for others a struggle. I think the key issue of the pacing might be the missing climax for the hype. I remember that even I was quite hyped up in watching it but after the fight and the intense scenes there was a lot of disappointment. Yes, pacing is not a good criticism BUT sometimes it is so bad that it partly ruins the anime, Angel Beats is an exemple of that, they COMPLETELY fucked up the last 4 episodes, there should have been at least 20 episodes to Angel Beats for it to have a good pacing. They didn't just rush it a bit, it's like there were fucking timeskips out of nowhere... I understand they might have had budget problems but that doesn't excuse that bad a pacing, they should have just made 2 seasons. |
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zal said: TheKawaiiZombie said: However you are not criticising the pacing itself but the misuse of fast pacing for events that require slower pacing to be absorbed by the viewer.Yes, pacing is not a good criticism BUT sometimes it is so bad that it partly ruins the anime, Angel Beats is an exemple of that, they COMPLETELY fucked up the last 4 episodes, there should have been at least 20 episodes to Angel Beats for it to have a good pacing. They didn't just rush it a bit, it's like there were fucking timeskips out of nowhere... I understand they might have had budget problems but that doesn't excuse that bad a pacing, they should have just made 2 seasons. Well pretty much, but how do you want me to say that as a criticism ? It is still a pacing problem so i include that in pacing. |
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TheKawaiiZombie said: No, I think that's fine. It is indeed an issue regarding pacing and yours is fair criticism.zal said: However you are not criticising the pacing itself but the misuse of fast pacing for events that require slower pacing to be absorbed by the viewer. Well pretty much, but how do you want me to say that as a criticism ? It is still a pacing problem so i include that in pacing. However you took my statement out of context because I was referring to pacing by itself. "This anime was fast so the pacing is bad" holds no real criticism, if it was just action then could be fine having a fast pacing. Your criticism has motivation beyond the pace itself. Instead "AoT has inconsistent pacing" means mostly nothing on its own. |
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zal said: For some the calm moments can be a build up, for others a struggle. I think this one is more suitable suitable rather than using "AOT had inconsistent pacing therefore the pacing was bad". The reader that read the review wont misunderstood that the pacing was bad for everybody. That person can decide to watch/not to watch that particular anime base on those statement.Esper said: Discussing pacing is quite complicated because by itself means nothing. Usual "depends on execution", some things need a slow pace and other a fast one. And it becomes boring if the pace is always the same so even "inconsistent" becomes quite irrelevant. In this case, given the wide interpretation I think that statement could be considered more of an opinion than a fact.@zal Yup, it can be a valid perspective but it is still opinion right? I mean the "scale" the that use to measure the pacing. @Kuma Yup, and roller coaster is very enjoyable from that shift between slow and fast phase. If I remember correctly (I saw it while airing) AoT did indeed have pacing issues because of the big difference in pacing between the action episodes and the non-action ones. For some the calm moments can be a build up, for others a struggle. I think the key issue of the pacing might be the missing climax for the hype. I remember that even I was quite hyped up in watching it but after the fight and the intense scenes there was a lot of disappointment. |
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NoobStomper said: You guys are reading too much into my claims that "inconsistent pacing is bad", it is a heavily simplified argument just for me to get a point across that you can criticize a show for its pacing. I know that pacing in AOT isn't the main problem as posted here: NoobStomper said: One thing I will agree tho if the pacing is the only issue, then it doesn't make the series bad. However, rarely is that the case, usually bad pacing is a just a symptom of an even larger problem, like say, slow pacing that doesn't even bother to build to something and is just filler garbage or it builds up to a confrontation that feels like its not worth it. The later is more the case with AOT, inconsistent pacing is one of the problem as it was purposefully done just to bait viewers into continue watching, the other issue is the build up and the conclusion which is a huge cop out just to keep the mystery going. Sure you can criticize pace but it is not as immediate as "asspull", you have to motivate and justify the criticism like thekawaiizombie did for angel beats. Saying it is inconsistent (example taken in consideration) holds little to no value as criticism because pacing varies according to the situation. While your full criticism has some points, it comes out a bit like a rant. |
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| you personally attack me i tap out ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
Mayuka said: did you call holier than thou bitch right here last.fm |
TheKawaiiZombie said: Pretentiousness is just pretending something is better without having much things to support it. Saying a 100 lives are worth more than 1 is pretentious, does that mean Fate/Zero is bad ? No, it doesn't. I hate when people think lives are math and think 100 is necessarily worth more than 1 yet i fucking love Fate/Zero, and i hate Kiritsugu but he is a great character, there is no denying that. I don't think Gen Urobuchi was directly espousing that belief system--Kiritsugu was. And we all know where that got him. Shirou, too. |
 This glorious signature image was created by @Mayumi! I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom: "Anime was always influenced by the West. This is not news. Shoujo is the superior genre primarily aimed at young people. Harem/isekai are lazy genres that refuse any meaningful innovation. There is no 'Golden Age.' There will always be top-shelf anime. You should be watching Carole & Tuesday." |
TheKawaiiZombie said: KoreaWS said: When talking about story and themes, yes, it actually is. You've lost credibility for believing it's a retarded claim. No, as a matter of fact, it is a retarded claim. It is pretty much to story what a ''Pussy'' character claim is to characters. Edit : Also, anyone could say that any anime is ''pretentious'' Humans are pretentious for thinking they are better than animals even though they're not. An author can be pretentious, but saying the work is pretentious is pretty stupid. Pretentiousness is just pretending something is better without having much things to support it. Saying a 100 lives are worth more than 1 is pretentious, does that mean Fate/Zero is bad ? No, it doesn't. I hate when people think lives are math and think 100 is necessarily worth more than 1 yet i fucking love Fate/Zero, and i hate Kiritsugu but he is a great character, there is no denying that. Using humans as example doesn't deny the fact shows can be pretentious too. That definition of yours can also be applied to an anime show in it's entirety. Saying an anime is pretentious is saying that the show pretended to be more than it is: it is a characteristic of the show as much as "pussy" is a characteristic of a character (and it is a negative trait by the way: allowing yourself to be used as stepladder by others). When you call a show pretentious you refer to one of it's characteristics, and that is a bad thing for the show since it is dishonest with the audience. If you believe beign dishonest is a good thing, then that's your problem, but saying that calling a show pretentious when it is is retarded, then you are just denying a fact. |
| It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye. But does the heart have the right perspective? |
| Not acceptable - Not liking a certain character. A show isn't supposed to make you love every single character all the time. If you don't like to watch anime with characters that you don't like, then that's your personal preference. Also not acceptable - "I can't relate to the characters" I watch more anime than those that have characters like myself. Most people that watch a mafia movie can't relate to any characters. |
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-Maz said: I'm with @kamisama751 on this one. Any reason / excuse is acceptable so long as they explain why they feel that way. These are reasons an anime is bad, that isn't based on personal preference. |
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