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Jul 29, 2023 9:02 AM
#1
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Jul 2018
561871
Eg I used to watch some episodes of High School Kimengumi on a French channel and had the impression that those were the characters uniform colors.


Because they had edited out one song in one episode, typical behaviour of French distributors at that time, I watched the Japanese episode side by side and noticed that the colors converted to PAL looked very different when compared to the original:



PAL viewers had it worse if you add that  anime were first being exported from Japan to USA, video  processed for American broadcasters and then  processed further when exported again to PAL territories.

All that time we were watching anime in the wrong colours. At least American cartoons had more careful conversion to PAL
Jul 29, 2023 11:16 AM
#2

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Feb 2016
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petran79 said:
At least American cartoons had more careful conversion to PAL
Why were American cartoons converted more carefully?
その目だれの目?
Jul 29, 2023 12:05 PM
#3

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Jun 2016
13858
Different broadcasting standards are a thing I definitely don't miss.
MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST
Jul 29, 2023 4:09 PM
#4

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May 2018
12383
Some french should correct me if I am wrong, but at the time they had SECAM, not PAL. At least their TV broadcasts were in it. Tho I have seen some french VHS cassettes which were in PAL...I guess they used both in home video distribution for compatibility (like people having players bought outside of France)?
So in the case of anime they got the master in NTSC and converted it to SECAM and than yet to PAL.

Transferring japanese master for the north american market should've being easier since both were NTSC...different versions of it, but still closer.

Have seen weirder transfers in my country (not sure through which standards, but at the time we had SECAM, a different version from the french one), which had blue instead of red.
alshuJul 29, 2023 4:36 PM
Jul 30, 2023 2:23 AM
#5
Neet Specter

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Mar 2022
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I think France was the only western European country that had SECAM as did Eastern Europe and Russia ..
Most of the world had PAL and Japan, USA were both usung NTSC
 

Jul 30, 2023 2:54 AM
#6
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Jun 2021
2738
I believe that was SECAM, not PAL. AFAIK it was mostly used by Eastern Block countries, France and Greece, for some reason. Compared to PAL SECAM has always been known as a much worse color system, with color bleed being particularly frequent.
PAL on the other hand has probably the best colors out of any analog system, better than even NTSC, but it has the flaw of having to speed up sound by about 4% which changes the pitch shift somewhat. Mostly mains stuff.
Hot Blood saves lives.
Jul 30, 2023 5:55 AM
#7

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TheMechaManiac said:
SECAM has always been known as a much worse color system, with color bleed being particularly frequent.

Actually it had the best colours. The bleeding problems came from the fact that massively the colour technicians didn't do their job properly, also the lack of proper communication between different technical divisions in the national TVs (I have inside info about that, shooting the perfect source in studio than looking like ass when airing)...like typical socialist regime mismanagement on all levels.
I have seen really great looking live SECAM broadcasts from Eastern Germany (also maybe Hungary) and not surprisingly from France.

In comparison PAL looked...well kind of pale, but it had better brightness and contrast, which is arguably more important for analogue TV.

NTSC is the trashiest of them all IMO.

TheMechaManiac said:
but it has the flaw of having to speed up sound by about 4% which changes the pitch shift somewhat.

Not sure what you are talking about here.
Sounds like one issue older VHS players had while playing NTSC cassettes for PAL systems. My SHARP player had this problem solved, but it was made in the 90s.
Jul 30, 2023 2:04 PM
#8
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Jul 2018
561871
Yes my mistake. I was watching that channel via satellite so the receiver converted it to PAL.
Jul 30, 2023 2:09 PM
#9
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May 2023
483
If I'm watching old TV shows, I'm not expecting 'Violet Evergarden' eyecandy and the appearance is part of the nostalgia feeling for me.
Jul 30, 2023 2:54 PM
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Jun 2021
2738
Theo1899 said:
Different broadcasting standards are a thing I definitely don't miss.

That's still a thing but it's nowhere near as noticeable as it was in the analog days.
Europe uses DVB-T/T2, USA uses ATSC, parts of South America and Japan use the ISDB-T system they co-developed together and China uses DTMB. However most of the differences are at the level of implementation, the end result looks the same.

alshu said:


TheMechaManiac said:
but it has the flaw of having to speed up sound by about 4% which changes the pitch shift somewhat.

Not sure what you are talking about here.
Sounds like one issue older VHS players had while playing NTSC cassettes for PAL systems. My SHARP player had this problem solved, but it was made in the 90s.


You know how certain music themes seem kinda "sped up" when watched on a PAL/SECAM TV set? Well both PAL and SECAM apparently do what's called "pull down" to pull broadcast masters of movies and shows made for the NTSC markets from the native 30 FPS of the NTSC system to the 25 FPS system native to 625 line systems. This improves the resolution somewhat but speeds up the program (and by proxy the soundtrack) by about 4%, which is heard as a pitch shift. Slight, but very noticeable if you've ever heard the original version. I've been in this one sub group which is doing a translation of Sunrise's Dragonar and they had to use Italian PAL DVD masters because that was the best option available at the time. The shift between episode 9 (done off the Japanese Laserdiscs) and 10 (where the Italian DVDs come into play) sounds really jarring because the PAL pull-down pitch shift kicks in.
Hot Blood saves lives.
Jul 30, 2023 3:04 PM

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Sep 2008
4487
interesting. I only ever saw digitalized anime on tv somehow. at least to my knowledge.
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