| Before I get to my question, I want to point out why legal lolis can not exist. The two words refer to characters of contradictory ages. On one hand you have legal which refers to characters at or above the age of consent and on the other, you have lolis which are characters under that age. Which means, characters above the age of consent are not lolis no matter how much they resemble them and lolis simply are not legal. Now to my question, how can there possibly be something as contradictory as a "legal loli"? |
| N.etorare T.echnical R.esearcher |
| Are you talking about real life? Cuz I would NEVER call any girl no matter what age a "loli" in real life. If you're talking about fiction....um....it's fiction, who cares if they're "Legal" or not. |
| Because loli doesn't mean that the girl's underaged, it refers to the appearance and body shape, not the age of the character |
atumskMay 10, 2017 8:46 AM
Heh... |
| Isn't this term used to describe (underaged) girl who looks sweet and innocent but acts somewhat sexualy or seductive. The clothes are also a bit not ordinary,childish therefore create interest and may be seductive. But as the contradiction in term itself it is possible to create other terms as well contradictory, it is just words anyway So there can be older woman dressed in lolita style so it depends on definition of lolita. |
Saji_Genpou said: Isn't this term used to describe (underaged) girl who looks sweet and innocent but acts somewhat sexualy or seductive. The clothes are also a bit not ordinary,childish therefore create interest and may be seductive. But as the contradiction in term itself it is possible to create other terms as well contradictory, it is just words anyway So there can be older woman dressed in lolita style so it depends on definition of lolita. Lolita and loli aren't the same thing Loli: Any age girl that looks like a prepubescent girl Lolita: Prepubescent sexually active girl |
Heh... |
atumsk said: Saji_Genpou said: Isn't this term used to describe (underaged) girl who looks sweet and innocent but acts somewhat sexualy or seductive. The clothes are also a bit not ordinary,childish therefore create interest and may be seductive. But as the contradiction in term itself it is possible to create other terms as well contradictory, it is just words anyway So there can be older woman dressed in lolita style so it depends on definition of lolita. Lolita and loli aren't the same thing Loli: Any age girl that looks like a prepubescent girl Lolita: Prepubescent sexually active girl I did not know that. Thank you. So in the light of what you said Legal Loli is not contradictory |
| It's well-established that loli refers to physical appearance more then actual age. Shinobu is referred to as a loli in-universe in Monogatari despite being hundreds of years old. |
| "No, son, you may not have your body pillow at the dinner table!" |
| I just prefer to call these kinds of characters as petite. Also, the term can also refer to someone who just reached or barely crosses the age of consent, so yes, "legal lolis" can totally be a thing. |
| I cerainly know little about loli thing. To me it was an apperance, I never thought that older girl dressed as loli could not be loli. So if this is contradictory term then it should not be functioning unless someone gives it a special meaning and use it on purpose. I learned something new thanks to you guys, Thank you |
| As the local expert lolicon let me clarify some things. First of all I generally agree with OP. Fake lolis like shinobu do not have the loli appeal for me because they're actually obaa-sans and have nothing of the naive innocence of a child. Any true lolicon would share those feelings, I'm sure. It's not a loli unless it's an actual child character. Just like a trap isn't female just because the character looks very feminine. Looks can be deceiving and give you the impression of a loli, but that doesn't make it true. Anyone saying loli is a bodytype is wrong. It literally means prepubescent girls. That's what lolicon means (attraction to prepubescent girl characters, not a preference for petite body types), that's where the term comes from (the lolita novel where it's also an actual child) and that's a big part of the overall of Lolis. Their childlike personalities and innocence. Shinobu (I use her as an example because she's probably the most popular fake loli) is neither childlike nor innocent. She's just small. I call that, well, being small, not being a loli. There are of course also cases where characters do have loli personalities and looks but still are supposed to be adults (like that girl from Honey & Clover) but to me that's just the typical bullshit in terms of anime and ages. I mean anime is famous for attaching random ages to designs that look either way older or way younger. If a character literally behaves like an 11 year old while also looking like one, she just is a loli to me no matter what random age the series attaches to that character so people can feel 'legal' about fapping to them. So yeah, these kind of legal lolis where there is nothing whatsoever indicating that they actually are older than 11 or 12 aside from the number the author attached to them, I don't really take seriously. If the characters behaves and acts like a child it might as well be a child, the age is irrelevant. If you find them attractive it's partly because of their childlike nature, just like with actual lolis. OP has his definitions wrong too, because lolis have nothing to do with the age of consent. It's really only about being prebuscent or at the cusp of puberty. 17 year olds can never be lolis by definition but they are under the age of consent in many countries. Consent is purely a legal issue that differes from country to country, while lolis (just as pedophilia) is about prepubescence, so usually 12-13 is the oldest a loli can be before turning into a full-blown teenage highschool girl. Some hentai sites even have specific labels for lolis who are in that grey zone between being a loli and a teenager (I believe it is called low loli but someone correct me if I'm wrong and that tag stands for something else but in my experience it gives me a lot of doujin with like young teens/old lolis). So yeah that's pretty much it. People trying to make the term meaningless by referring to anything small or petite (when you already have perfectly fine words that describe exactly those body types without referring to age) are pretty annoying tbh. I don't want to come up with a new word for actual, prepubescent girl characters and being attracted to them just because people suddenly use loli to refer to everything independent of age or childlike personality. That's what loli(con) means. Don't turn it into a meaningless buzzword that describes what actually should be called just petite/small body types. Basically lolita as a character type and lolita as a fashion style or artstyle are different things. You can draw non-loli characters in a loli artstyle but that doesn't make them lolis, just some kind of half-assed substitute for moralfags. Just like drawing guys in a feminine/shoujo artstyle doesn't actually make them female characters. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| Are there types of lolis? Like for example Misa from Death Note, to me she was a loli but gothic, or dark you may say. BTW I don't understand why people hate her so much, to me she was adorable, I can understand why Rem loved her. |
| @pullman Thank you, that was very informative. I think I will not make more mistakes. |
Saji_Genpou said: Are there types of lolis? Like for example Misa from Death Note, to me she was a loli but gothic, or dark you may say. BTW I don't understand why people hate her so much, to me she was adorable, I can understand why Rem loved her. Misa is just a teenager who likes gothic lolita fashion. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| OK so there is something like gothic lolita, are there other types? Probably yes. |
| I mean technically that might be true but that's not what people normally mean when they refer to someone as a loli. Although the original meaning is a prepubescent girl (in which case a legal loli makes no sense), nowadays you generally just mean a prepubescent-looking girl (in which case it can make sense since it's no longer dependent on age) |
  |
Saji_Genpou said: OK so there is something like gothic lolita, are there other types? Probably yes. gothic lolita is really more of a fashion style than a character subtype if you ask me. Most people I saw in rl on conventions rocking that look were well over 18 and just enjoy the aesthetics. I don't think there are 'types' of lolis. I mean you can still aply any other personality-based archetype to a loli (like tsundere or yandere) but loli itself just has that one meaning of prepubescent anime girls and there are no subtypes or anything. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| legal or not, you're still kind of a pedo if you wanna bang a 12 year old |
"I came here to sniff Madoka panties and kick witch ass and I am all out 'doka panties" - Homora Akemi |
| There are always people who confuse fantasy with reality |
| @pullman Thanks for explanation, so I meant the looks/fashion but now I know the looks is not directly related to it so I understand and my question was pointless. Btw as mentioned above today most people refer to loli in connection with style or looks and apparent young age, thats where my interpretation of this term came from. |
| There are now types of lolis. Boob lolis, goth lolis, old lolis, young lolis, cute lolis, tsundere lolis, imouto lolis, the choices are endless! I'm all for the disambiguation of the term. @Pullman said he doesn't "want to come up with a new word for actual, prepubescent girl characters", but he doesn't have to! That word already exists and they're called children. |
| It isn't about their real age, it's about what they look like. Just like with traps the artist can draw a normal looking girl and then say she's way older than she looks making her still a loli but now a legal one. IRL if you find an Asian girl who's 30 but looks 16 it is completely legal to have sex with her and you would not be a pedophile for doing so however if you liked her because you had been misinformed that she was under aged then you still would be in the wrong. |
  |
| Bruh Jail is just a room... Good Luck with that |
 "Think about that glowing dust That destroys the night sky's dream of Just being nothing"--  -- |
| One example for a legal anime loli would be Illyasviel from Fate/stay. She's 18 at that point: |
Pullman said: First of all I generally agree with OP. Fake lolis like shinobu do not have the loli appeal for me You lost me there sadly. But then I had to ask if this "girl" is loli or not : |
That's what would be referred to as a sensei loli ®. |
| Welp. I just learned a lot about lolis that I'll probably forget in an hour. |
Pullman said: I'm sure. It's not a loli unless it's an actual child character. Just like a trap isn't female just because the character looks very feminine. Looks can be deceiving and give you the impression of a loli, but that doesn't make it true. There are of course also cases where characters do have loli personalities and looks but still are supposed to be adults (like that girl from Honey & Clover) but to me that's just the typical bullshit in terms of anime and ages. I mean anime is famous for attaching random ages to designs that look either way older or way younger. If a character literally behaves like an 11 year old while also looking like one, she just is a loli to me no matter what random age the series attaches to that character so people can feel 'legal' about fapping to them. So yeah, these kind of legal lolis where there is nothing whatsoever indicating that they actually are older than 11 or 12 aside from the number the author attached to them, I don't really take seriously. If the characters behaves and acts like a child it might as well be a child, the age is irrelevant.. I could be misinterpreting your post but you seem to be making conflicting points. You said loli must be an actual child character, then you said if they act like a child, look like a child, but the author slaps an adult age, you'll still treat them as loli as you would think they might as well be a child. If lolis must be actual prepubescent children, then if they are already passed puberty, behavior (childlike as it may be) should not matter at all (Going by your initial definition) |
MechKingKillbotMay 10, 2017 11:05 AM
 |
| When it comes to anime related stuff, don't worry about it dude, all waifu, or pretty much all waifu are lolis. Ehhh... In terms of real-life, don't even bother, most of kids are annoying in their own ways. |
| And now I think is there a need to call someone loli? If it must be actual child caracter couln't they be called children? |
Im sure she counts, personally Loli for me just means small petite girl, some underage, some not |
So we got term like that. I see... The more you now. |
MechKingKillbot said: Pullman said: I'm sure. It's not a loli unless it's an actual child character. Just like a trap isn't female just because the character looks very feminine. Looks can be deceiving and give you the impression of a loli, but that doesn't make it true. There are of course also cases where characters do have loli personalities and looks but still are supposed to be adults (like that girl from Honey & Clover) but to me that's just the typical bullshit in terms of anime and ages. I mean anime is famous for attaching random ages to designs that look either way older or way younger. If a character literally behaves like an 11 year old while also looking like one, she just is a loli to me no matter what random age the series attaches to that character so people can feel 'legal' about fapping to them. So yeah, these kind of legal lolis where there is nothing whatsoever indicating that they actually are older than 11 or 12 aside from the number the author attached to them, I don't really take seriously. If the characters behaves and acts like a child it might as well be a child, the age is irrelevant.. I could be misinterpreting your post but you seem to be making conflicting points. You said loli must be an actual child character, then you said if they act like a child, look like a child, but the author slaps an adult age, you'll still treat them as loli as you would think they might as well be a child. If lolis must be actual prepubescent children, then if they are already passed puberty, behavior (childlike as it may be) should not matter at all (Going by your initial definition) Well yeah, technically it is a bit conflicting but the point is that you can't trust the age authors slap on their characters. I certainly don't. If there is nothing differentiating the character from an actual child aside from the random age attached to it probably for moral or political reasons, I can't argue that it's not basically a loli. I can argue that for any lolis where the body type if the only loli-ish thing and their personality isn't childlike at all tho. I was mostly talking about that and ignoring the age question because I've long since stopped taking anime ages seriously. Obviously with fictional characters there is no actual puberty that can be used as a criteria so we have to go by either the random age attached by authors or the typical, child-like loli features (in both body AND personality, not just the former) in a character. I find the latter more relevant in terms of the appeal of lolis. I was just trying to emphasize that the loli character traits are more important for the definition than just the body type. The actual age slapped on by the author is the least relevant/reliable criteria for me just because of the endless numbers of seemingly random or completely absurd ages you'll find in anime characters and even jrpgs and stuff. I stopped taking any of those seriously very early into my anime career as I said, which is why I didn't think of addressing it specifically in my first post. They're guidelines at best in my experience. I'd rather trust my instincts when they tell me 'this guy is over 40' than the anime telling me he's 17 like the rest of the cast. Along the same lines I'd rather trust my instincts when they tell me 'damn what a cute child/loli' than the anime telling me she's in her 30s and has 2 kids. That's why I emphasize their personality so much, because that's what makes the difference in terms of a character feeling like a child or an adult in a small body. Not the random age, not the size of the body, but their demeanor more than anything. AholePony said: There are now types of lolis. Boob lolis, goth lolis, old lolis, young lolis, cute lolis, tsundere lolis, imouto lolis, the choices are endless! I'm all for the disambiguation of the term. @Pullman said he doesn't "want to come up with a new word for actual, prepubescent girl characters", but he doesn't have to! That word already exists and they're called children. First of all children does not imply specifically female children at all and generally has a much wider meaning including real life children while loli has the beauty of inherently only referring to fictional characters with certain character AND body traits. Plus we're talking about lolis and lolicons and childrencon is not even close to being a viable substitute for lolicon, for once because of what I mentioned in the previous sentence. Only someone with the agenda of equating attraction to fictional characters to the mental condition of pedophilia would actually want to replace 'loli' by 'children'. Also in general (and I did not mention that earlier so that's my mistake) the term loli and sexualization kinda go hand in hand. Of course it's also subjective and every young girl character can be a loli to you if you sexualize them in your mind (or in doujins or whatever) but in terms of how they are depicted in their anime or manga or whatever I definitely differentiate between children and lolis. Rin from usagi drop, ren-chon from non non biyori or Naru are characters I see only as children not as sexualized lolis I want to fap to. The thought of seeing them the same way I see 'lolis' I fap to makes me uncomfortable even because they are just presented so differently. On the other hand 95% of the lolis I find in doujins or more sexualizing animanga, while maintaining certain childlike qualities, differ from actual children (characters) in significant ways and I just see them as lolis, as fap fodder. I know this isn't something many people (or probably anyone else) does but to me it makes the most sense and it also kinda solves the issue of people who find lolis just cute and people who find lolis sexually attractive both being grouped together and even both referring to themselves as lolicons. Lolicon should really only refer to an attraction to a certain type of character that is defined by age, body type and personality (with some of these criteria being more relevant than others) while if you just find a child character cute, you find a child character cute and it has nothing to do with being a lolicon specifically. Whether it's the one or the other can vary from person to person or even for one person from character to character. sasalx said: Pullman said: First of all I generally agree with OP. Fake lolis like shinobu do not have the loli appeal for me You lost me there sadly. But then I had to ask if this "girl" is loli or not : I haven't seen the show but I see nothing childlike about her demeanour, personality or even the way she speaks in that clip so to me she's a classic 'fake loli' like shinobu. Included in the show to cash in on the part of the loli fandom who only cares about the bodytype or even wants them to be old because they feel more comfortable when they can tell themselves she's legal even though the age is basically meaningless for fictional characters. As a lolicon myself I don't like her. At least not as a loli. She might still be a funny character, but I neither find her cute nor endearing so she fails appealing to me as a loli. And because you seem salty about shinobu, I'm not saying she's a bad character or not hot or cute or whatever. Just that she hasn't felt like a loli to me once in all I've seen from the Monogatari franchise. I just can't see her as anything but an ancient vampire, and that includes not being able to see her as a loli or child. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| If you live in the right part of the world, all lolis are legal. Who cares about their age? All that matters is that DFC. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) |
 |
| I'm not sure why people take this round-about position when taking about DRAWINGS... |
JustALEX said: I'm not sure why people take this round-about position when taking about DRAWINGS... Personally, I've been thinking for a long time - why do people care about apparent age, but not psychological age? I mean, 1-year old robots who look and act teenage are okay. 700-year-old vampires who look 20ish and act 10ish are okay. But a 20ish old teacher who acts her age but looks like a little girl - and suddenly you see people crying "pedophiles! call the FBI!". (in case it matters, the vampire is Arcueid Brunestud from Tsukihime - she spent most of these years sleeping; and teacher is Komoe-sensei from To Aru Majutsu no Index, and we don't know why he looks so young, she just does) |
flannan said: JustALEX said: I'm not sure why people take this round-about position when taking about DRAWINGS... Personally, I've been thinking for a long time - why do people care about apparent age, but not psychological age? I mean, 1-year old robots who look and act teenage are okay. 700-year-old vampires who look 20ish and act 10ish are okay. But a 20ish old teacher who acts her age but looks like a little girl - and suddenly you see people crying "pedophiles! call the FBI!". (in case it matters, the vampire is Arcueid Brunestud from Tsukihime - she spent most of these years sleeping; and teacher is Komoe-sensei from To Aru Majutsu no Index, and we don't know why he looks so young, she just does) Why the hussle? Theyre all closet pedophiles. |
 Oshii is probably the only director that loves dogs. He thinks he's a dog himself. That's right, its slime! It will dissolve your clothing slowly before my eyes! |
I'm a passionate lolicon, what can I say :>. I don't want people to think I'm talking about old hags like Shinobu when I say I love me some lolis. Sjo said: legal or not, you're still kind of a pedo if you wanna bang a 12 year old And what if I want a 12 year old to bang me? huh? try and make a craigslist ad looking for one who's interested. Keep me updated on what happens. Should be an interesting prison blog :> |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| All I know is that it's DEFINITELY possible to fap to drawings (of whatever) while not having that same attraction/desire to real life. I can fap to traps all day long, but I have yet to see a single REAL trap that made my dick even twitch a little. The reason why 2D continues to be vastly superior to 3D is because of it's perfection. 3D is a joke. |
Darek said: Pullman said: Nothing quite like a dose of some Loli elitism, teach me your ways.I'm a passionate lolicon, what can I say :>. I don't want people to think I'm talking about old hags like Shinobu when I say I love me some lolis. try and make a craigslist ad looking for one who's interested. Keep me updated on what happens. Should be an interesting prison blog :> and no thank you I value my anus and I know what they do in prisons. they also value your anus in prison so that's one thing you'd have in common with them already. A good basis for making new friends, wouldn't you say? |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
atumsk said: Because loli doesn't mean that the girl's underaged, it refers to the appearance and body shape, not the age of the character According to Wikipedia a "Loli" is a fictitious underage character. OT: Lolis become "legal" after a time skip., like the on in Fairy Tail. Technically the characters are older, but their mind/body remains the same. Wendy is basically 19. Also invincible characters who stopped aging at a certain age are "legal". PS: What the fuck is so attractive about a kid? No oppai no ass just a fcking flat body, ew. |
| @Saji_Genpou it's a meme @Darek well in that case.. you're still kind of a pedo |
"I came here to sniff Madoka panties and kick witch ass and I am all out 'doka panties" - Homora Akemi |
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