Sword Art Online (light novel)
| Putting aside the fact that we are not even close to anything of what the nerve gear has to offer, I think we are pretty close to creating a MMO like GGO. I mean the formula would be this: Battlefield 4 engine (Frostbite 3 was it?) - planes + RPG elements (Quests, proper leveling, classes, stats, fantasy monsters) - realism + anime 3d models (Cell-Shaded?) + open world + Oculus Rift = GGO What are your opinions regarding this subject? |
DavidobotJul 13, 2014 5:49 AM
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| I don't think VR gear suddenly enlightens game devs so they can suddenly make god tier game. New toys don't really add anything to quality. We'll have the same games forever only with different control. |
| 日本人はイッちゃってるよ あいつら未来に生きてんな |
DawnJ said: I don't think VR gear suddenly enlightens game devs so they can suddenly make god tier game. New toys doesn't really add anything to quality. We'll have the same games forever only with different control. Are you sure about that? I mean when we got real 3D going, tons of great games popped up that would only work in 3D. (3D as in 3D character models, not stereoscopic 3D) |
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Davidobot said: DawnJ said: I don't think VR gear suddenly enlightens game devs so they can suddenly make god tier game. New toys doesn't really add anything to quality. We'll have the same games forever only with different control. Are you sure about that? I mean when we got real 3D going, tons of great games popped up that would only work in 3D. (3D as in 3D character models, not stereoscopic 3D) Welp, we've had kinect (it's still imperfect as of now tho) for years and we all know kinect games are total garbage. VR tech may give better visual experience, but I guess we'll still have shitty games. |
| 日本人はイッちゃってるよ あいつら未来に生きてんな |
DawnJ said: Welp, we've had kinect (it's still imperfect as of now tho) for years and we all know kinect games are total garbage. VR tech may give better visual experience, but I guess we'll still have shitty games. Well, the entire concept of the kinect was flawed from the beggining. The Oculus Rift spawned quite a lot of fun an innovative games, and the only reason that AAA companies don't develop for it, because it isn't out yet and AAA companies can't or don't want to take risks. As for another example, I propose the Wii - tons of innovative games an technologies. |
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Vaizoku said: Phantasy Star Online II's Ranger is very similar to GGO. The graphics are also pretty on point. I guess, but that's just one class. Zymf said: I think it'll take a while to implement nerve-sensors Well, maybe 20~25 years untill we can have it head-mounted. |
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| well with the way our technology is improving these days, ya never know ;) |
Ecchi & Action = Da best! :D  |
jizzaloo said: +1well with the way our technology is improving these days, ya never know ;) |
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| Pls no. |
 "One must die and one must live. No victory, no defeat. The survivor will carry on the fight. It is our destiny... The one who survives will inherit the title of Boss. And the one who inherits the title of Boss will face an existence of endless battle." |
cabacc2 said: We are still far away from nerve-gear technology. I doubt that we'll have nerve-gears ready for production in the next 75 years, and thats a very optimistic estimation. It might as well never be invented. 75 years is a very pessimistic estimation. I mean, I remember that in 2003 people where saying that 1TB hard drives are never going to be invented, and lookie-lookie, I have a 2TB hard drive 10 years down the line. cabacc2 said: Oculus and Nerve Gear are entirely different, since Oculus is just a monitor in font of your eyes. Nerve gear is a link that goes directly to your brain. Huge difference! Yeah, but hey! it's the closest thing we currently have. Might as well make good use of it. |
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cabacc2 said: Nerve Gear and Oculus rift are two completely different technologies. I never stated that they were not. I said it was the closest thing we had. cabacc2 said: Currently, there is nothing that comes even close to nerve gear. We dont even have basic technology when it comes to linking our brain and inducing images. And nerve gear is on a completely different level, because it doesnt only need to induce, but has to simultaneously read. Otherwise you couldnt interact with the virtual reality in any way. Then you have to link some gaming engine to it, which is also not easy. And you have to prevent body-movement. Also more difficult that it sounds. I mostly agree with you. cabacc2 said: Oculus is just a screen in your face. Yeah, but I heard of something similar which projects the image into your retina. Still nothing close but whatever. cabacc2 said: I wouldnt be surprised if Nervegear wasnt invented within the next 150 years. My estimate is 15~35 years. |
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Fantassy said: You would never know, With the Techonology advancing nowadays. The game itself is not hard to create since we do already have a huge variety of games and it will expand each year, but the problem is that it's involve all all kind of controls EG : brain pattern movements, not so long ago they experimented with this on a Game (Forgot which one but it was kind of old) however the work to do something of this caliber would be incredibly complex. You would need to match up brain patterns with controller movements. Even in an open-world MMO, with a first-person perspective, they'd need to program in different brain patterns to match up, so that if you think of jumping, you don't end up running instead. Plus, I have no doubt that such a game could be achieved, though the real difficulty I think would be the graphics. These screens may be small and pack great resolution for their size, but if you consider how in SAO everything was life-like, it'll be difficult to match that caliber of graphics. I love you man (no homo) <3 Fantassy said: though the real difficulty I think would be the graphics. These screens may be small and pack great resolution for their size, but if you consider how in SAO everything was life-like, it'll be difficult to match that caliber of graphics. Actually, not really. In the LN, Kirito, when he just got the mirror and everyone turned into their real self, noted that you could still tell that the players were made up of polygons. |
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| Decades. We are barely coming upon technology that actually lets you see a world like that, let alone create the feeling of being in one while also not effecting your actions in the real world. |
| We're currently making slow but steady progress in the realm of brain-machine interface. Right now the tech is mostly focused on restoring functionality to people that are paralyzed or that have lost limbs for one reason or another. There's really not a reason why you couldn't use such an interface to control an avatar in a game, but that's still a long way off at least (we've not even scratched the surface of what it would take to actually feed information back into the brain). Also, since everyone's brains are a little different, it might never be as simple as plugging in a machine turning on the switch. There may be some mental conditioning or training required before you could actually use it. If we lived in a world where this sort of technology were commonplace, it might be easier for kids to develop a knack for it though. |
| if Nintendo sell their soul in exchange for some secret to developing virtual reality games then the gaming industry will be saved. Otherwise Nintendo are f*cked. |
| I've been here way too long... |
PaleBlue said: We're currently making slow but steady progress in the realm of brain-machine interface. Right now the tech is mostly focused on restoring functionality to people that are paralyzed or that have lost limbs for one reason or another. There's really not a reason why you couldn't use such an interface to control an avatar in a game, but that's still a long way off at least (we've not even scratched the surface of what it would take to actually feed information back into the brain). Also, since everyone's brains are a little different, it might never be as simple as plugging in a machine turning on the switch. There may be some mental conditioning or training required before you could actually use it. If we lived in a world where this sort of technology were commonplace, it might be easier for kids to develop a knack for it though. Reading the signals from motor nerves with necessary precision might be well achievable in a few decades. Feeding the computer-generated images back is also theoretically viable - there's no need to get the brain itself involved, and the signals from our sensory organs are relatively straightforward (not so sure about the touch, though). The problem comes with the "cutting off", without which the above technology isn't of much use. The only bright spot is that there's again no need to touch the brain itself. Hijack the sensory nerves, the motor nerves, and the brain wouldn't care where its I/O comes from, as long as it's in proper format. Even though the solution to this is nowhere in sight yet, the lack of need to mess with the brain's inner workings (in which area we barely transitioned from alchemy to chemistry) makes it at least theoretically practical. |
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| I came across this just now and thought it was particularly relevant: http://diply.com/trendyjoe/have-you-always-wanted-be-a-jedi-come-september/43593/1 The article has 4 pages with videos on each page. I thought the one on page 3 was especially applicable to this thread. |
| Depending on how you look at it, we could have a game similar to SAO/GGO right now in terms of the gameplay (leveling/classes/etc). The only difference would be the graphics and the controls ;) But in all seriousness let's break it down. First: graphics. The worlds of SAO and GGO are portrayed as having almost-real-life graphics. Just to render and manipulate multiple 3d models at that resolution and detail is an enormous task for the processor. So before we even get to VR tech, we need better basic tech. I checked out a project to model new versions of processors after the grey matter in the human brain, which would probably be powerful enough (once they're sufficiently advanced). So let's say 10-15 years for that. The real problem is the VR. I noticed a lot of people trying to compare it to kinect and pointing out how shitty most kinect games are (which is true). So I'll just say comparing the kinect to VR is like comparing the Oculus Rift to VR. It's a whole different ballgame. One interesting theory I've heard is the potential to achieve VR through the use of nanomachines in the brain that send and receive information directly to/from your brain. Because putting tiny machines into your brain sounds like something you'd be comfortable doing, right? What we'd need to make this idea feasible within the next century is a technological breakthrough. We'd need somebody, somewhere, to make an incredible discovery or have a brainblast or something. We'd also need the aforementioned processor improvements in order to both support the game and support the development of the technology to reach the point where we can achieve VR. In short, at best it'll take an absolute utter minimum or 40 years for VR prototypes with any semblance of realism. 55-60 years would be more realistic, with 85 being the upper limit. But the funny thing is, all of these explanations, facts, and estimates are not even the most important part. There needs to be a true need for this technology. Nobody is going to perform this kind of research just so we can have a supor kool vidya gaem with realisticz and maybeh smexy smex with hawt babes. Sorry. There has to be applications for this toward public health/safety, warfare, etc. Oh, and there's no guarantee that this technology will be affordable enough for civilian purchase, nor is there any guarantee that it won't take huge amounts of energy. But yeah I'm still hopeful we can have Lifelight before I die :) (google "Pendragon Lifelight" if you don't know wth I'm talking about) |
ArbiterofWhimJul 13, 2014 2:32 PM
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| I got the chance to try out remote controlling an excavator via an Oculus Rift in the R&D department of my job, and from what I could see from that I can say that it's still *very* far away from getting anywhere close to actual smooth VR. We'd need something new that literally connects into your brain first of all, which is probably not safe whatsoever and also very unresearched as of yet. |
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| First, Why - realism? Whats the point of VR then? (I believe That's what SAO deals with) Second, frostbite engine is bad (tbh, even for rift). And any of current engines couldn't run the virtual reality setting. Not even close. The amount of information is just too huge to even considerate how modern technologies could deal with that quantity. It's not your Mbits/s, it's gigabits or even terabits. Also, the biggest problem is interface that could control input-output information stream to and out of our brains. Another problem is that we need a supercomputer to process such amount of information, also super internet with tremendous bandwidth( or local network). The current technologies are still behind at least 15-20 years. I think it's obvious. So think about 30 years, because for the first everything will be created and used for military applications, as everything we have nowadays were. |
TapuTapuuJul 13, 2014 6:36 PM
| Planetside 2. |
| No where near close.Not even with the Oculus Rift. |
| We're a lot closer than most people realize, however, most of our current tech involves invasive surgery. We have the braingate, a controller implanted in the brain that broadcasts brain signals to external devices letting people who have lost limbs move cybernetic limbs. I also remember reading somewhere that some german scientist or something recently figured out how to knock someone out with electromagnetic waves. Can't verify this though cause I can't find where I read it. If both those are true, we have the ability to remove a persons physical control of their body, and receive motion input from the brain, two key points of creating a fully immersive virtual reality. So I wouldn't say its that far off, maybe 7-10 years from it being possible, 15 or so from it being practical. |
retalogy said: ArbiterofWhim said: But in all seriousness let's break it down. First: graphics. The worlds of SAO and GGO are portrayed as having almost-real-life graphics. Just to render and manipulate multiple 3d models at that resolution and detail is an enormous task for the processor. So before we even get to VR tech, we need better basic tech. I checked out a project to model new versions of processors after the grey matter in the human brain, which would probably be powerful enough (once they're sufficiently advanced). So let's say 10-15 years for that. This should be resolved by the fact that one of the brain's fundamental features is that it is able to "make stuff up" and fill in the blanks when our coherent senses fails to gather all the information. Couldn't this possibly be applied to create a very realistic world that is parallel to the vision that the game designer had in mind, given that the brain had some basic guidelines? Perhaps we don't need a very powerful computer to render a realistic world, we can utilize the brain to create the world. I believe this is essentially what happens when we dream and you can't deny that your dreams are surreal, you believe them until you wake up. I was going to link a paper but my laptop is at 1%. So... Project Alicization's Underworld basically. |
retalogy said: This should be resolved by the fact that one of the brain's fundamental features is that it is able to "make stuff up" and fill in the blanks when our coherent senses fails to gather all the information. Couldn't this possibly be applied to create a very realistic world that is parallel to the vision that the game designer had in mind, given that the brain had some basic guidelines? Perhaps we don't need a very powerful computer to render a realistic world, we can utilize the brain to create the world. I believe this is essentially what happens when we dream and you can't deny that your dreams are surreal, you believe them until you wake up. I was going to link a paper but my laptop is at 1%. At the present rate it's going to be far easier to just supply good enough graphics than to work directly with the brain in any way. |
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| It'll still take quite a while. If anything, the military would have access to VR devices far earlier than we will. I really doubt we'll have one remotely close to SAO's device even after 10 years. |
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| I'm going to quote from the LN: Notice the bold part. It has a less realistic graphics than BF4 I presume. |
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| I'd say we're not even close. We might be able to get a VR game somewhere within this generation, but I don't believe we'll get the quality you're looking for that's apparent in SAO or Alfheim. |
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Sung-Hwan said: How?Something like this would lead to more complicated terrorism in real life. I'd prefer not to see it. |
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Davidobot said: Your brain is hooked up to the meganet and you are comatose. How is this not a situation that someone else might take advantage of?Sung-Hwan said: How?Something like this would lead to more complicated terrorism in real life. I'd prefer not to see it. You might wake up from a gaming session to find that you've been robbed and raped while you were playing. |
Jackrabb1t said: Davidobot said: Your brain is hooked up to the meganet and you are comatose. How is this not a situation that someone else might take advantage of?How? You might wake up from a gaming session to find that you've been robbed and raped while you were playing. Lock your doors and hide your kids? |
Jackrabb1t said: That's why we should develop something along the lines of the amusphere as it does not block out all of the senses.Davidobot said: Your brain is hooked up to the meganet and you are comatose. How is this not a situation that someone else might take advantage of?How? You might wake up from a gaming session to find that you've been robbed and raped while you were playing. |
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Davidobot said: Sung-Hwan said: How?Something like this would lead to more complicated terrorism in real life. I'd prefer not to see it. Terrorist/militia are not usually well trained, and they are not exactly too big of a threat to well trained soldiers of developed nations. Then again, I doubt a video game can help with that. Contrary to Kazuto somehow able to put up a fight with Sugu back in SAO because of his experience in the game, he confessed that there are differences that can be felt during episode 1 of season 2. Anyways, back on topic 1. I don't think we'll get a VR game even remotely close to SAO's within this generation 2. I don't think we'll live long enough to have to worry about it's affect on terrorist training. EDIT: Oh right, theft. Yeah, it'll be problem. |
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Jackrabb1t said: Davidobot said: Your brain is hooked up to the meganet and you are comatose. How is this not a situation that someone else might take advantage of?How? You might wake up from a gaming session to find that you've been robbed and raped while you were playing. Funny you should say that, given that in GGO... |
Fantassy said: Jackrabb1t said: Your brain is hooked up to the meganet and you are comatose. How is this not a situation that someone else might take advantage of? You might wake up from a gaming session to find that you've been robbed and raped while you were playing. I doubt in the future it would be easy to rob somebody (or rape), I think we have like Finger scanner or whatever to open the door, but they could also find new ways to rob though. People can always find a way to override these things. Also, instead of being robbed, you could be killed too. For example, if they give you a fatal injection while you're still ingame... You wouldn't have any way of knowing. And no one would be able to find out about it either if the trespasser is careful enough. |
Davidobot said: Putting aside the fact that we are not even close to anything of what the nerve gear has to offer, I think we are pretty close to creating a MMO like GGO. I mean the formula would be this: Battlefield 4 engine (Frostbite 3 was it?) - planes + RPG elements (Quests, proper leveling, classes, stats, fantasy monsters) - realism + anime 3d models (Cell-Shaded?) + open world + Oculus Rift = GGO What are your opinions regarding this subject? Read the novel, we're no where near capable of making games like this currently minus the virtual reality portion that makes it what it is. |
| I don't know if someone mentioned it earlier. I already wrote in thread about VR on SAO I discussion. Check it out http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=485229&show=100#msg32638973 for me it's the closest thing to NerveGear right now. VR may come sooner than we think and as Evaluator said I think it's achievable. |
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