why is it widely accepted that slanting a chinese character's eyes is racist but anime does it all the time?
Reply to karo86
"its not a big deal" "nobody cares"
i know! thats why i made a silly post in an anime forum...
i am european myself and i dont believe this is a racist thing, ive seen it in anime all my life
if anything i think its a cute character trait that comes with a trope i really like (when shit gets serious and the character does open their eyes)
i just noticed that newer generations of anime fans call everything and the slightest stereotype/caricature racist and while it annoys me i was also intrigued as to what really is racist or not. i thought, maybe im just so used to this that i didnt realize its actually a bad thing. but thanks to (most) replies i think we can agree that its really not racist unless they take it too far.
looking into it more myself i also find it funny that not only are said new people always white themselves, but when their favorite show does the exact thing that they preach is bad, they turn a blind eye. i find it comparable to when white people were saying sister krone is bad black rep just because shes evil, but when i asked african people about it they said shes actually perfectly fine.
i specifically ended my original post saying i dont want to be rude and i just wanted to be educated so i could avoid the mean "isnt this obvious" comments but i guess with any thread that criticises beloved shows ill still get them. regardless, i ask that if you want to continue replying to this thread then please give meaningful input instead of "yada yada nobody actually cares" bc i do know nobody besides teenage girls on tiktok care, i just found it an interesting topic.
thanks!
i know! thats why i made a silly post in an anime forum...
i am european myself and i dont believe this is a racist thing, ive seen it in anime all my life
if anything i think its a cute character trait that comes with a trope i really like (when shit gets serious and the character does open their eyes)
i just noticed that newer generations of anime fans call everything and the slightest stereotype/caricature racist and while it annoys me i was also intrigued as to what really is racist or not. i thought, maybe im just so used to this that i didnt realize its actually a bad thing. but thanks to (most) replies i think we can agree that its really not racist unless they take it too far.
looking into it more myself i also find it funny that not only are said new people always white themselves, but when their favorite show does the exact thing that they preach is bad, they turn a blind eye. i find it comparable to when white people were saying sister krone is bad black rep just because shes evil, but when i asked african people about it they said shes actually perfectly fine.
i specifically ended my original post saying i dont want to be rude and i just wanted to be educated so i could avoid the mean "isnt this obvious" comments but i guess with any thread that criticises beloved shows ill still get them. regardless, i ask that if you want to continue replying to this thread then please give meaningful input instead of "yada yada nobody actually cares" bc i do know nobody besides teenage girls on tiktok care, i just found it an interesting topic.
thanks!
karo86 said: white people were saying sister krone is bad black rep just because shes evil, but when i asked african people about it they said shes actually perfectly fine. Demizu does an excellent job of drawing visually diverse characters without resorting to caricatures. Anyone whining about Krone probably hates black people. |
| その目だれの目？ |
Reply to Wonderaqua
@Nurguburu Sir this is My anime list not twitter.
| @Wonderaqua I don't like wokeism either. I forgot to add it. I believe in East Asian unity and the exagerated hatred among Chinese, Japanese and Korean people in the post above you is just Western propaganda. Japan, Korea and China are more united that some Western people especially some American people want to believe. They want to create division and issues among Asian people. The fact donghua, aeni and Anime are on MAL is a proof of China, Korea and Japan unity. Even if I'm loyal to Japan and Anime, I also like donghua and aeni and welcome them with open arms. |
NurguburuOct 5, 8:28 AM
| BANZAI NIPPON. Nippon is the Land of freedom. Nippon is the Land of Peace. Nippon is the Land of Justice and Prosperity. In Nippon, we trust. We love Nippon, we love Anime. Anime love us, Nippon love us. 日本 |
Reply to Nurguburu
@Wonderaqua I don't like wokeism either. I forgot to add it. I believe in East Asian unity and the exagerated hatred among Chinese, Japanese and Korean people in the post above you is just Western propaganda. Japan, Korea and China are more united that some Western people especially some American people want to believe. They want to create division and issues among Asian people. The fact donghua, aeni and Anime are on MAL is a proof of China, Korea and Japan unity. Even if I'm loyal to Japan and Anime, I also like donghua and aeni and welcome them with open arms.
Nurguburu said: Japan, Korea and China are more united that some Western people especially some American people want to believe. I'm curious, what makes you say this? What community (online or IRL), experience or current events indicate that their relations are improving (or has always been good)? |
Reply to perseii
Nurguburu said:
Japan, Korea and China are more united that some Western people especially some American people want to believe.
Japan, Korea and China are more united that some Western people especially some American people want to believe.
I'm curious, what makes you say this? What community (online or IRL), experience or current events indicate that their relations are improving (or has always been good)?
| @perseii They are neighboring countries so their culture is going to be extremely similar. The supposed hate among them is just Western propaganda. The fact Anime has a lot of Korean and Chinese characters besides many Anime are produced in such countries for example is just a fact they get along. Japan consider Korea and China as brother countries. I admire their unity. Some Americans like to exploit issues among other countries to spread division and hate. In the rest of the world, we don't do such thing, pretty sure Americans don't want other people say American people "hate" Canadian people and Mexican people and use their media for such thing as "examples" like some users are doing it here with Anime supposed "offensive" despiction of Korean and Chinese characters, it's just xenophobia against Japanese, Chinese and Korean people at this point. Americans should mind their own business instead of pointing the finger at others especially if they are very far away and don't share the same culture. |
| BANZAI NIPPON. Nippon is the Land of freedom. Nippon is the Land of Peace. Nippon is the Land of Justice and Prosperity. In Nippon, we trust. We love Nippon, we love Anime. Anime love us, Nippon love us. 日本 |
Reply to Nurguburu
@perseii They are neighboring countries so their culture is going to be extremely similar. The supposed hate among them is just Western propaganda. The fact Anime has a lot of Korean and Chinese characters besides many Anime are produced in such countries for example is just a fact they get along. Japan consider Korea and China as brother countries. I admire their unity.
Some Americans like to exploit issues among other countries to spread division and hate. In the rest of the world, we don't do such thing, pretty sure Americans don't want other people say American people "hate" Canadian people and Mexican people and use their media for such thing as "examples" like some users are doing it here with Anime supposed "offensive" despiction of Korean and Chinese characters, it's just xenophobia against Japanese, Chinese and Korean people at this point. Americans should mind their own business instead of pointing the finger at others especially if they are very far away and don't share the same culture.
Some Americans like to exploit issues among other countries to spread division and hate. In the rest of the world, we don't do such thing, pretty sure Americans don't want other people say American people "hate" Canadian people and Mexican people and use their media for such thing as "examples" like some users are doing it here with Anime supposed "offensive" despiction of Korean and Chinese characters, it's just xenophobia against Japanese, Chinese and Korean people at this point. Americans should mind their own business instead of pointing the finger at others especially if they are very far away and don't share the same culture.
Nurguburu said: Some Americans like to exploit issues among other countries to spread division and hate. I believe this is true. But this is not a tactic that's unique to the US or is particularly new in history. But the fact that a third-party exploited a local conflict does not mean that the third-party is responsible for that conflict. Most of the time, neighbors dislike each other already (or have for thousands of years) and they don't need that much persuading to keep doing it. Nurguburu said: They are neighboring countries so their culture is going to be extremely similar. Hard disagree. It may look that way from people outside the region, but as someone who grew up there, I would say China, Korea and Japan are more different than a lot of people realize. Speaking about Korea specifically, they consider Chinese and Japanese cultures fairly foreign, even if there are aspects of those cultures that have been carried over into Korean culture. I would not go so far as to say they hate their neighbors (outside of fringe online/political groups, the kind that exists in every country around the world), but they are pretty sensitive about what they perceive as encroachment, slight or appropriation from their neighbors. Koreans by default are fairly uninterested in their neighbors; they're mostly just focused on what other Koreans are doing. Because life is hard enough and there are 50 million Koreans crammed in a landmass a quarter of the size of California. At the very least, I think they understand that it's hard to understand and get along with these people, even if they know it's beneficial to cooperate. From my brief time in Japan and what I've seen of Japanese reactions to Korea-Japan drama, I suspect the Japanese are about the same. I actually think they're even less interested in what their neighbors think, and even more absorbed in their own culture. |
Reply to perseii
Nurguburu said:
Japan, Korea and China are more united that some Western people especially some American people want to believe.
Japan, Korea and China are more united that some Western people especially some American people want to believe.
I'm curious, what makes you say this? What community (online or IRL), experience or current events indicate that their relations are improving (or has always been good)?
| @perseii He got the idea from Japanese war propaganda.  |
| その目だれの目？ |
| I personally love single eyelids a lot. They along straight black hair are my favorite physical features. https://myanimelist.net/character/133420/Rowell_Su-ming  I am a Latino with double eyelids. |
私が見たのが、ブギーポップだったのかどうかは分からない。 |
Reply to Wonderaqua
@Nurguburu Lmao blaming the west for Asian division is quite funny, is it Americas fault that the Chinese are spreading across the South china sea and threatening the Philippines? Is it the wests fault that Taiwan, a sovereign nation has to defend itself from China? "Wahhhh everything is the wests fault waahh"
| @Wonderaqua There are a few people here who will blame "the woke west" for their shoes coming untied. They'll just find any excuse to derail ever convo into a culture war and push their weirdo agenda. OT: It's probably because of the bad blood between Japan and China. They've had plenty of skirmishes in the past, and there are still some alive in both countries around from the hell Japan unleashed on China in WWII. And, well, Japanese officials have been notorious for not apologizing for that stuff. A good chunk of Japan clearly doesn't view China too favorably even to this day. |
 |
| I think it mostly isn't racist at all. It's definitely racist when the design and characterization are meant to mock or denigrate the character's ethnic group and I think it's also racist to a lesser degree when it's not meant that way but still it's displayed in an unpleasant way or coupled with a messed up characterization, but this can be a more complex issue depending on the context and perception. Manga artists may be more inclined to draw narrowed eyes if they have a realist art style, but some still apply it in a caricaturesque way for characters regardless them being Chinese or Japanese. For example, the designs for most Japanese characters in Monster (like the businessmen Lange meets or Nina's aikido teacher) are like that and I really don't think Urasawa was being racist towards his own. And then there's manga and anime's visual language, where the size and shape of the eyes tends to be a character trait as much as a physical trait - we've even seen them change out of psychological trauma, like with Denjiro from One Piece. I have barely perceived any anti-Chinese sentiment while reading manga or watching anime anyway. Even when they're the villains, like in Sword of the Stranger, they tend to be dignified villains. If anything I'd say several manga artists are fascinated by Chinese culture. I'd say prejudiced ideas tend to be frowned upon in creative circles and thus largely absent in their production, unless it's a really widespread belief in a country or approved and pushed forward by its authorities. |
FlazzardOct 5, 11:59 AM
Reply to Zakatsuki_
@GinIonSui i think those articles can do it better than me , but in the manga aspect, the webtoons both chinese and korean is a direct answer to manga , it's more modern than manga and they want to have a better soft power than Japan , for Japan you can even find some furyo where young japanese were tracking south korean to beat them up , the racist between Japan and the two others is crazy big , but a lot of people don'ts see that , they idolize Japan like monkeys just bc of anime , and funny to know , the animes they watch are actually a way for the author to show Japan societal issues but they're too dumb to see this?
https://www.genron-npo.net/en/issues/archives/5507.html
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2016/09/13/hostile-neighbors-china-vs-japan/
https://thediplomat.com/2013/08/china-and-japan-really-dont-like-each-other/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Korean_sentiment_in_Japan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSmazzfn6rU
https://www.yahoo.com/news/easy-target-why-anti-korean-224157485.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAIGxLY4Y2MPaonOfiyEXENTYtXUQEeBZryH8zTqKyfQAhQd4Yfjif72BzMV5MOfjCH0jGfuclv_I6LX0j5rvSgj78tKF_ogKYTewftxlCdgpgqgnEbSC-gEtPGbmLI2nIF5RtQnXTD24v7oTArtboJulcdkw4W6i-_3iy3s-Dmy-
https://www.genron-npo.net/en/issues/archives/5507.html
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2016/09/13/hostile-neighbors-china-vs-japan/
https://thediplomat.com/2013/08/china-and-japan-really-dont-like-each-other/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Korean_sentiment_in_Japan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSmazzfn6rU
https://www.yahoo.com/news/easy-target-why-anti-korean-224157485.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAIGxLY4Y2MPaonOfiyEXENTYtXUQEeBZryH8zTqKyfQAhQd4Yfjif72BzMV5MOfjCH0jGfuclv_I6LX0j5rvSgj78tKF_ogKYTewftxlCdgpgqgnEbSC-gEtPGbmLI2nIF5RtQnXTD24v7oTArtboJulcdkw4W6i-_3iy3s-Dmy-
| @Zakatsuki_ There are some Japanese people who hate Chinese and Korean people because China and Korea intentionally create anti-Japan sentiment. In the first place, Japanese people accept even Americans, so why do they dislike Chinese and Koreans? You should have defined what it means to be racist. Some popular anime referenced the 3/11 disaster, but a lot of people didn't realize it. I feel that non-Japanese people don't need to adopt Japanese narratives. |
Reply to GinIonSui
@Zakatsuki_
There are some Japanese people who hate Chinese and Korean people because China and Korea intentionally create anti-Japan sentiment. In the first place, Japanese people accept even Americans, so why do they dislike Chinese and Koreans? You should have defined what it means to be racist.
Some popular anime referenced the 3/11 disaster, but a lot of people didn't realize it. I feel that non-Japanese people don't need to adopt Japanese narratives.
There are some Japanese people who hate Chinese and Korean people because China and Korea intentionally create anti-Japan sentiment. In the first place, Japanese people accept even Americans, so why do they dislike Chinese and Koreans? You should have defined what it means to be racist.
Some popular anime referenced the 3/11 disaster, but a lot of people didn't realize it. I feel that non-Japanese people don't need to adopt Japanese narratives.
| It's disliking an entire group of people from a certain country , or ethnies |
 |
| Well, cause nobody who makes japanese cartoons, for a living, gives a fk about sensitive little offended Soccer-Moms, apparently. And that's a good thing :) |
 |
Reply to karo86
@SgtBateMan you seem to like to exaggerate my words to make things seem more dramatic than they are so i did the same thing since im still a considered a kid compared to you. dont like it when someone uses your tactics against you? petty isnt it?
@GinIonSui i think its got to do with all the wars and nationalism coming from japan, china and korea. not necessarily in anime but irl you still see a lot of this internalized hatred against each other. and sometimes it creeps into the media that these countries create. as someone else has mentioned here, these countries will often portray each other as weak and in need of help when it comes to manga or movies. kinda sad and unnecessary. its much cooler to just appreciate each other's cultures but because pride runs so deep, they never let go of past disputes. probably also has something to do with the fact that the three are always being compared to each other but i could be wrong
@GinIonSui i think its got to do with all the wars and nationalism coming from japan, china and korea. not necessarily in anime but irl you still see a lot of this internalized hatred against each other. and sometimes it creeps into the media that these countries create. as someone else has mentioned here, these countries will often portray each other as weak and in need of help when it comes to manga or movies. kinda sad and unnecessary. its much cooler to just appreciate each other's cultures but because pride runs so deep, they never let go of past disputes. probably also has something to do with the fact that the three are always being compared to each other but i could be wrong
| @karo86 In the first place, the notion that slanted eyes are a sign of racism did not exist in Japan. Characters with narrow eyes have appeared as those possessing mystical powers or hiding something. China began anti-Japan education in 1989, and Japan likely became aware in the 2000s that Chinese people hate the Japanese. |
Reply to perseii
Nurguburu said:
Japan, Korea and China are more united that some Western people especially some American people want to believe.
Japan, Korea and China are more united that some Western people especially some American people want to believe.
I'm curious, what makes you say this? What community (online or IRL), experience or current events indicate that their relations are improving (or has always been good)?
| @perseii In game industry there is TW games dev that i follow only release in this order TW -> KR -> Asia -> Global. and not rare to stop in KR. Line phone number registration only available in these countries which showing their relationship are good. (btw line can be used to buy DLsite games in case you don't have JCB) while both visa/mster card removed). Dev KR that saying fans of anime style and actually making more anime like games are not small. There is JP youtuber that want to contact why KR and CN/TW games not restricted. From above i don't see they hostile each other. |
Luc36Oct 5, 2:09 PM
 - -  |
| Do an image search of "Zanzimana Ellie" and try to draw him accurately without being racist. You can't, since reality is racist. So what? |
Reply to Zakatsuki_
It's disliking an entire group of people from a certain country , or ethnies
| @Zakatsuki_ That is a good definition. Japanese people racially discriminate Chinese and Korean people. |
yet if a westerner does the slightest eye slanting then theyre bashed for being racist. Obviously if Asians want to use Asian stereotypes it's fine since they're the ones doing it to characters they've created. It's just them poking fun at themselves so there's no intended malice. Kind of like how Family Guy has tons of Jewish jokes that could come across as offensive yet nobody cares because most of the writers who come up with said jokes are Jewish themselves. |
Reply to Luc36
@perseii In game industry there is TW games dev that i follow only release in this order TW -> KR -> Asia -> Global. and not rare to stop in KR.
Line phone number registration only available in these countries which showing their relationship are good. (btw line can be used to buy DLsite games in case you don't have JCB) while both visa/mster card removed).
Dev KR that saying fans of anime style and actually making more anime like games are not small.
There is JP youtuber that want to contact why KR and CN/TW games not restricted.
From above i don't see they hostile each other.
Line phone number registration only available in these countries which showing their relationship are good. (btw line can be used to buy DLsite games in case you don't have JCB) while both visa/mster card removed).
Dev KR that saying fans of anime style and actually making more anime like games are not small.
There is JP youtuber that want to contact why KR and CN/TW games not restricted.
From above i don't see they hostile each other.
| @Luc36 From the entertainment media side, like games and anime, there's quite a bit of enthusiasm and good business across countries. Japanese anime have been a mainstay in children's programming on Korean TV since forever ago, even if things that clearly identify them as Japanese were scrubbed out as much as possible, like character names, Japanese flags, etc. It contradicts how Korean people can be unfriendly/unenthusiastic towards Japanese culture and the Japanese people, but that's been my experience. Call it a love-hate relationship, if you'd like. In terms of business, they are all neighboring countries with a sizable economy, so it's inevitable they do a ton of business with each other. Korea's number one trade partner is China, and Japan is also up there in the rankings. Same with tourism, with Japan getting a huge number of visitors from Korea post-Covid; it's just so close by, and the weak Yen helps. It's not a particularly unusual situation, because in my understanding there's still trade going on between EU countries and Russia, despite the hostility. One last thing about Taiwan and Korea: Taiwan-Korea relations have always been very good, to my memory. Until the 90's, Korea just did not deal with communist China at all, and back when the Taiwanese ruling class was based in mainland China, there was a lot of shared interest between them and the Korean independence movement in fighting back Japanese aggression. So yeah, the fact that there's business and anime fandom is not really proof that they are on good terms, in my opinion. It's a mixed bag, really. |
| That's rather historical since some east asian countries have been colonies. Depicting east asian people with slinted eyes (and often bug teeth in the worst cliches) in western media, basically has the same malicious background as blackfacing. When Japanese media does the slinted eyes, it doesn't come off as malicious. You could say it's still a stereotype tho and there is discrimination against other east asian people in Japan as well. |
| these replies r so weird. this post is valid esp considering the history between japan and china |
| It's not always racist to draw Chinese people with slanted eyes. Just don't make them look contemptible or lesser, at least not on the bases of their race. It's weird that Japanese people feel the need to give Chinese characters slanted eyes. They have slanted eyes too. |
| Thread locked Anime Discussion Rules: 5. Please refrain from posting thread topics which extend beyond the discussion of anime/manga as an entertainment medium to highly-debated social and/or moral issues. This includes but is not limited to: pedophilia, gender/racial equality, sexual orientation, etc. |
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