Dark Gathering Is Better Than Undead Murder Farce

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Jul 2020

597

auroraloose said:

Isekai-Enjoyer said:

auroraloose said:

Isekai-Enjoyer said:

auroraloose said:

Isekai-Enjoyer said:

auroraloose said:

Isekai-Enjoyer said:
So, you see…

There’s no other way to say it…

But half of your points are completely redundant and the other half is just delusional.

Of course I take everything I said seriously. And of course Dark Gathering is about a loli murdering ghosts. It is also about darkness, human relationships, and whatever else I said. The loli murdering ghosts part, along with a lot else, is why Dark Gathering is also mediocre, just as Undead Murder Farce is. Though it is not as if great literature cannot be silly, absurd, or childish.

Do you—read? Like, really read. Like Dialectic of Enlightenment read, or The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy, Gentleman read. That latter is a novel. Undead Murder Farce is a manga or something, I don't care. A light novel is not a novel; the preceding modifier cannot be removed. When we talk about great novels, we do not include in the discussion No Matter How I Look at It, It's You Guys' Fault I'm not Popular! (the only physical copy of a light novel I actually own).

It seems like you're espousing the incorrect and facile understanding of critiques of objectivity, as if I were saying everything is "relative." No serious philosopher thinks this. And it is Derrida himself who said that this misunderstanding is what happens when you don't read. Of course, the misunderstanding is rather entrenched in our discourse, which is why it always pops up, and part of what feeds the objectivity nonsense. The problem, as all such philosophers always, tirelessly explain, is that we tend to claim objectivity for things that are very much historical or contextual—and we also tend to do so blithely and lazily, without knowing much philosophy, such that we run into trouble because we're just not being all that careful. It used to be that eugenics was objective, and that quasicrystals were scientifically impossible—and these are just famous examples in science; imagine how much trouble objectivity run amok has caused the average person.

And if anything, what I'm doing here is generating far more categories of rigor by which things are not just subjective whim or opinion; this is far different from just whining about things being subjective. Our societal notion of intelligence is such that the hard sciences crowd everything out, and people end up being absolutely terrible at anything having to do with the humanities. Like critiques of objectivity, or understanding the contextuality of online rating systems (which you clearly do).

Finally, I adamantly do not believe things like beauty, quality, taste, and whatnot are subjective. There is good and bad art, and there is good and bad taste. It is bad that the detective genre is so popular, because it keeps people in the intellectual slums. I'm not sure how we got around to me siding with relativism when I started by claiming one anime is better than another.

I see. I am truly glad we finally came to the conclusion that some people have objectively terrible opinions about works of art.

Such as yours about a mid poorly directed show about a loli murdering ghosts.

Finally? I always start out with that opinion, and have to wring it out of people, who insist taste is subjective and how dare I say otherwise? I do truly and honestly appreciate that you come down on the side of discriminating taste.

I also really like My First Girlfriend Is a Gal and wrote many long comments about Love Flops—though, admittedly, I gave those a 6 and a 5, I think. And, to be fair, my top anime are far more conventional, so I can't double down on having shit taste, unfortunately. But anime is a trash can I eat out of, yes.

Finally.

You’ve been saying some batshit insane shit here and I definitely don’t think you’re sane.

But this last comment of yours was certainly quite commendable. Eating trash with pleasure is certainly my thing.

Good ending, I guess.

This really is the problem; i don't think you have an objective notion of the batshit insane. I suppose I will boast somewhat and say that the issue is simply that I am a highly advanced consumer of trash.

My name is Isekai-Enjoyer.

I will take any insult, but I won’t take people saying they are able to appreciate mid shows better than me.

Three of my favourite shows are isekais. No one can get me out of this hill.

I was going to say that you have met your match, but even I wouldn't claim an isekai in my top three. What are we talking, though? If you say The Vision of Escaflowne that's different, and I know there are rigorous arguments as to the definition of the isekai category. You could just be weaseling out of it here.

I’m talking about Re:Zero, Mushoku Tensei and Konosuba.

Exclusively talking about anime, of course. Frankly, when it comes to media, I have few to no interest in other formats.

I do like actual books, though. Been a while since I last read a good one (entrance exams and shit), but I do still enjoy them as a format.

Jul 31, 2023 8:38 PM

#63

Offline

May 2017

514

Isekai-Enjoyer said:

auroraloose said:

Isekai-Enjoyer said:

auroraloose said:

Isekai-Enjoyer said:

Camacho99 said:

Isekai-Enjoyer said:
Oh, wow.

Having watched both shows, I don’t know where to even begin. This is, like, so objectively incorrect on so many ways.

You’re, like, comparing a random 6 that might reach a 7 with a lot of effort to a solid 8 that could probably reach a 9 in the future.

Technically, UGMF is actually objectively better. The production value isn’t even comparable.

As for the characters:

Detective chuunibyou? My man, I dare you not becoming this way after passing years literally just as a fucking head. People need to find something to humour themselves. Characterisation is damn near perfect. I am also seriously baffled that some people are complaining about the circus clown acting like a circus clown.

Meanwhile, Dark Gathering barely has enough production value to actually be tense. Direction is mid. Animation is below average. The protagonist has the most generic design imaginable and a somewhat self-insert personality. The loli isn’t really that interesting as well. Frankly, the only aspect holding everything together is Hanazawa Kana carrying the entire shit by playing a Yandere.

They’re not even comparable in quality. Undead Girl Murder Farce is leagues above it.

The only real praise I can give to Dark Gathering is about how it somehow feels like a 2010 anime. It has a charm to it merely because of that, and the plot is original enough to keep you entertained.

That said, quality wise, it’s just middle of the pack, while UGMF is solidly far above “mid”.

this was a completely W

Don’t even keep reading. The rest of this discussion is unironically driving me insane.

This girl is nuts. She claims that I can’t use the term “objectivity” and proceeds to explain why her opinion is objectively correct by some philosopher’s standards.

She yells at people for not reading novels and then claims a light novel isn’t a novel.

As if her knowledge about western books and philosophy made her opinion about a random ass average anime any more valuable.

Like, this is the worst part. We are discussing about the same thing, right? An anime about a random loli killing ghosts. Who the fuck is bringing Aristoteles into this? I swear the author just thought the Yandere was hot and made a mid manga about it.

Then the anime poorly adapted it and here we are.

It’s really nothing that deep. How are we even comparing this to a show with pretty deep historical representation and actual characters with existent personalities…?

The internet can be scary at times.

Okay, lol, so I'll have a little more fun if this is actually what you think. 'Cause, you know, even I am not all that great at my Greek philosophy, so I wouldn't refer to Aristotle. Though I do know it's Aristotle, and not Aristoteles.

But man, try to have some fun and people really freak out. You should visit a humanities department someday; if you think I'm nuts, try them out. Though if you're finding the internet crazy at this point, imagine how hilarious I think this is.

So, I was kinda roasting you for the sake of it, gotta admit.

I’m a law student, so I’m definitely familiar with actual insane people.

You just have bad taste in anime and I have questionable internet manners which I mask with gramatical politeness.

That’s kinda it.

I know, I could tell. But it also seemed like you knew better than everyone else, which is why I kept talking. Again, I really have no ill will here, and I don't think you do either. It was good of you to try to help Rick and Morty/Ben Shapiro guy.

Frankly, I do not consider myself someone stupid by any means. If anything, I take pride in my conversational skills. I work with this, after all, so I definitely CAN engage in good faith, like I genuinely did at first.

It’s just that…

Hell, trying to bring philosophy into a discussion about a truly average show which is mostly about a yandere being hot and a loli murdering ghosts kinda drained my initial good faith.

Not an excuse to be an ass, though. Sorry if I crossed the line with my banter here. I do admit it’s not to my tastes to roast someone behind their back.

But hey, this is a public forum, so in my defence, it WAS kinda in your face.

Either way, nah, I don’t think you’re actually insane or anything.

I do think your opinion about this is ass, though.

No, you didn't cross a line at all. Again, I could see the dynamic going on, and could tell you were worth engaging. And the inciting incident was me putting my provocative nonsense in MAL's collective face. Also, this is not the first time I've gone deconstructionist howitzer on anime, so I know how people can respond; you were downright gentlemanly in comparison. (Would you be offended if I friended you on MAL?) But I also know that every once and a while a fellow shit-eater of my literary persuasion comes out of the woodwork, and great and nonsensical banter is to be had.

I love him who is ashamed when the dice fall in his favour and who then asks: Am I then a cheat? – for he wants to perish.

Jul 31, 2023 8:48 PM

#64

Offline

Jul 2020

597

auroraloose said:

Isekai-Enjoyer said:

auroraloose said:

Isekai-Enjoyer said:

auroraloose said:

Isekai-Enjoyer said:

Camacho99 said:

Isekai-Enjoyer said:
Oh, wow.

Having watched both shows, I don’t know where to even begin. This is, like, so objectively incorrect on so many ways.

You’re, like, comparing a random 6 that might reach a 7 with a lot of effort to a solid 8 that could probably reach a 9 in the future.

Technically, UGMF is actually objectively better. The production value isn’t even comparable.

As for the characters:

Detective chuunibyou? My man, I dare you not becoming this way after passing years literally just as a fucking head. People need to find something to humour themselves. Characterisation is damn near perfect. I am also seriously baffled that some people are complaining about the circus clown acting like a circus clown.

Meanwhile, Dark Gathering barely has enough production value to actually be tense. Direction is mid. Animation is below average. The protagonist has the most generic design imaginable and a somewhat self-insert personality. The loli isn’t really that interesting as well. Frankly, the only aspect holding everything together is Hanazawa Kana carrying the entire shit by playing a Yandere.

They’re not even comparable in quality. Undead Girl Murder Farce is leagues above it.

The only real praise I can give to Dark Gathering is about how it somehow feels like a 2010 anime. It has a charm to it merely because of that, and the plot is original enough to keep you entertained.

That said, quality wise, it’s just middle of the pack, while UGMF is solidly far above “mid”.

this was a completely W

Don’t even keep reading. The rest of this discussion is unironically driving me insane.

This girl is nuts. She claims that I can’t use the term “objectivity” and proceeds to explain why her opinion is objectively correct by some philosopher’s standards.

She yells at people for not reading novels and then claims a light novel isn’t a novel.

As if her knowledge about western books and philosophy made her opinion about a random ass average anime any more valuable.

Like, this is the worst part. We are discussing about the same thing, right? An anime about a random loli killing ghosts. Who the fuck is bringing Aristoteles into this? I swear the author just thought the Yandere was hot and made a mid manga about it.

Then the anime poorly adapted it and here we are.

It’s really nothing that deep. How are we even comparing this to a show with pretty deep historical representation and actual characters with existent personalities…?

The internet can be scary at times.

Okay, lol, so I'll have a little more fun if this is actually what you think. 'Cause, you know, even I am not all that great at my Greek philosophy, so I wouldn't refer to Aristotle. Though I do know it's Aristotle, and not Aristoteles.

But man, try to have some fun and people really freak out. You should visit a humanities department someday; if you think I'm nuts, try them out. Though if you're finding the internet crazy at this point, imagine how hilarious I think this is.

So, I was kinda roasting you for the sake of it, gotta admit.

I’m a law student, so I’m definitely familiar with actual insane people.

You just have bad taste in anime and I have questionable internet manners which I mask with gramatical politeness.

That’s kinda it.

I know, I could tell. But it also seemed like you knew better than everyone else, which is why I kept talking. Again, I really have no ill will here, and I don't think you do either. It was good of you to try to help Rick and Morty/Ben Shapiro guy.

Frankly, I do not consider myself someone stupid by any means. If anything, I take pride in my conversational skills. I work with this, after all, so I definitely CAN engage in good faith, like I genuinely did at first.

It’s just that…

Hell, trying to bring philosophy into a discussion about a truly average show which is mostly about a yandere being hot and a loli murdering ghosts kinda drained my initial good faith.

Not an excuse to be an ass, though. Sorry if I crossed the line with my banter here. I do admit it’s not to my tastes to roast someone behind their back.

But hey, this is a public forum, so in my defence, it WAS kinda in your face.

Either way, nah, I don’t think you’re actually insane or anything.

I do think your opinion about this is ass, though.

No, you didn't cross a line at all. Again, I could see the dynamic going on, and could tell you were worth engaging. And the inciting incident was me putting my provocative nonsense in MAL's collective face. Also, this is not the first time I've gone deconstructionist howitzer on anime, so I know how people can respond; you were downright gentlemanly in comparison. (Would you be offended if I friended you on MAL?) But I also know that every once and a while a fellow shit-eater of my literary persuasion comes out of the woodwork, and great and nonsensical banter is to be had.

That’s good to hear. I have this tendency of engaging in good faith, then getting sarcastic for no reason and then going back to good faith once I calm the fuck down.

Which is not something I would usually apologise for, but I did roast you to SOMEONE ELSE, which is actually an action that I despise, so yeah, my bad.

Gonna make sure to roast you in your face next time.

But yeah, about the friend thing, I do admit I actually took a liking to you as well. It’s rare to find someone who is so chill about having their tastes outright insulted.

I like this. Mostly because I can relate with going into unusually deep lengths when it comes to discussions like this.

So sure. I accept this request. Looking forward to more banters.

Jul 31, 2023 8:52 PM

#65

Offline

May 2017

514

Isekai-Enjoyer said:

I’m talking about Re:Zero, Mushoku Tensei and Konosuba.

Exclusively talking about anime, of course. Frankly, when it comes to media, I have few to no interest in other formats.

I do like actual books, though. Been a while since I last read a good one (entrance exams and shit), but I do still enjoy them as a format.

Yeah, though it is true I insist on books when we're talking about what the good stuff really is, not everyone has the time, and the fact anime is less mentally intensive is good. I wasn't reading Dialectic of Enlightenment when I was doing research, that's for sure.

But as for the isekai—I don't know, for trash those are pretty high-quality. Have you heard of Love Flops? Came out last year or something; that thing is bad. And from it I came up with this, over on the aforementioned MAL CR refuge forum:

[WARNING: this is seriously brain-melting stuff]

auroraloose said:
Episode 8

I hate science popularizers, but I swear, the harem anime genre is a way for the pure simulation stage of late capitalism to know itself. The layers of delusion and self-manipulation are just too much: Here we are supposed to take seriously the notion that everything up to now that has happened—a deluge of the standard harem shenanigans—is the result of AI doing a bad job learning how to love. To entertain this notion is to admit the unreality of the genre, but now that's the justification for this particular installment! And we're going to jump back in and love the broken AI. Clearly the researchers trained the thing primarily on anime. Out here in reality you could even imagine generating the plot for Love Flops itself by training an AI on the harem genre; the truly crazy algorithm is the one human civilization is running by watching and producing such stupid anime. We want the anime to keep coming, but we don't want to admit that what we want is trash, so as genre installments keep coming they engage in an ever more complex dance of plot justifications.

Granted, I imagine most of the viewers know what they want and why they're watching, and further aren't deluded as to quality. But they still need to believe in the illusion; the crazier the edifice, the easier it can collapse. If the harem genre has to work ever harder to maintain the illusion, seeing that work itself is a reminder that it's an illusion. (This is a deconstruction, by the way—not that the harem genre is unrealistic, which is neither here nor there, but that the struggle to justify it inherently makes it more difficult to justify, a self-contradiction.) DARLING in the FRANXX suffered such collapse, to the point that it became the antagonist it showed us. Here, we have Asahi, who spent several months in a fake and utterly convenient harem situation, suddenly discovering that all the fawning he was getting was not only a giant delusion, but one that was tailored to distort reality into a wish-fulfillment fantasy that can never obtain. Sound familiar? All Love Flops would need to do is take the tiniest step sideways: Asahi doesn't get his virtual harem back, because of course none of that could ever happen. And he's left depressed and damaged as he returns to a difficult and unglamorous world. Just like, hey, we do when we stop watching this crap. Even more, the more we start to rely on it the more we feel like Asahi does after being unplugged. After this episode it is far too easy for the viewer to imagine this scenario. And that we and Asahi are just going to jump back in, and he and we will get his virtual harem shenanigans back without at all addressing the big hole the show just left in our feelings, will make the self-contradiction even worse. The drug no longer provides the desired high, and there is only the crash and emptiness afterwards.

Of course, as this is all running on capitalism, what will happen is (i) anime will continue its path in the parameter space, as the interaction between viewers and content creators increases the complexity of its justifications for new installments and leads to tweaks and course corrections, and (ii) new technologies will emerge to compete with or replace anime in the wish-fulfillment industry. Like, maybe, a technology that can give you a three-month delusion of a harem during a single night's sleep, literally being inserted as the self-insert character.

Meanwhile, I watch this trash because I find the dance of plot and viewer justifications fascinating and hilarious. As conspiratorial as what I said above is, this tendency towards justifications of greater complexity and far-fetchedness (and, interestingly, self-reference) is indeed real, as attested by Saekano, Rent-a-Girlfriend, More than a Married Couple, but Not Lovers., and plenty else. Further, I think the self-contradiction I describe above also appears in these shows. I wish one of them would be bold enough to own it; were Love Flops to totally switch gears, deprive Asahi of his delusion, and help him recover through real relationships, you could actually see that being both serious and touching. It's too late for Love Flops, though, because I don't think anything can recover from that particular fairy abomination, but Saekano really could have done such a thing. And that wouldn't even entail giving up the fanservice; putting the work into a story makes such far sexier.

This is kinda just what I do. Doing it here and getting shit on has been satisfyingly amusing.

But at this rate I think I might be more of a trash connoisseur than you.

I love him who is ashamed when the dice fall in his favour and who then asks: Am I then a cheat? – for he wants to perish.

Jul 31, 2023 8:56 PM

#66

Offline

Jul 2020

597

auroraloose said:

Isekai-Enjoyer said:

I’m talking about Re:Zero, Mushoku Tensei and Konosuba.

Exclusively talking about anime, of course. Frankly, when it comes to media, I have few to no interest in other formats.

I do like actual books, though. Been a while since I last read a good one (entrance exams and shit), but I do still enjoy them as a format.

Yeah, though it is true I insist on books when we're talking about what the good stuff really is, not everyone has the time, and the fact anime is less mentally intensive is good. I wasn't reading Dialectic of Enlightenment when I was doing research, that's for sure.

But as for the isekai—I don't know, for trash those are pretty high-quality. Have you heard of Love Flops? Came out last year or something; that thing is bad. And from it I came up with this, over on the aforementioned MAL CR refuge forum:

[WARNING: this is seriously brain-melting stuff]

auroraloose said:
Episode 8

I hate science popularizers, but I swear, the harem anime genre is a way for the pure simulation stage of late capitalism to know itself. The layers of delusion and self-manipulation are just too much: Here we are supposed to take seriously the notion that everything up to now that has happened—a deluge of the standard harem shenanigans—is the result of AI doing a bad job learning how to love. To entertain this notion is to admit the unreality of the genre, but now that's the justification for this particular installment! And we're going to jump back in and love the broken AI. Clearly the researchers trained the thing primarily on anime. Out here in reality you could even imagine generating the plot for Love Flops itself by training an AI on the harem genre; the truly crazy algorithm is the one human civilization is running by watching and producing such stupid anime. We want the anime to keep coming, but we don't want to admit that what we want is trash, so as genre installments keep coming they engage in an ever more complex dance of plot justifications.

Granted, I imagine most of the viewers know what they want and why they're watching, and further aren't deluded as to quality. But they still need to believe in the illusion; the crazier the edifice, the easier it can collapse. If the harem genre has to work ever harder to maintain the illusion, seeing that work itself is a reminder that it's an illusion. (This is a deconstruction, by the way—not that the harem genre is unrealistic, which is neither here nor there, but that the struggle to justify it inherently makes it more difficult to justify, a self-contradiction.) DARLING in the FRANXX suffered such collapse, to the point that it became the antagonist it showed us. Here, we have Asahi, who spent several months in a fake and utterly convenient harem situation, suddenly discovering that all the fawning he was getting was not only a giant delusion, but one that was tailored to distort reality into a wish-fulfillment fantasy that can never obtain. Sound familiar? All Love Flops would need to do is take the tiniest step sideways: Asahi doesn't get his virtual harem back, because of course none of that could ever happen. And he's left depressed and damaged as he returns to a difficult and unglamorous world. Just like, hey, we do when we stop watching this crap. Even more, the more we start to rely on it the more we feel like Asahi does after being unplugged. After this episode it is far too easy for the viewer to imagine this scenario. And that we and Asahi are just going to jump back in, and he and we will get his virtual harem shenanigans back without at all addressing the big hole the show just left in our feelings, will make the self-contradiction even worse. The drug no longer provides the desired high, and there is only the crash and emptiness afterwards.

Of course, as this is all running on capitalism, what will happen is (i) anime will continue its path in the parameter space, as the interaction between viewers and content creators increases the complexity of its justifications for new installments and leads to tweaks and course corrections, and (ii) new technologies will emerge to compete with or replace anime in the wish-fulfillment industry. Like, maybe, a technology that can give you a three-month delusion of a harem during a single night's sleep, literally being inserted as the self-insert character.

Meanwhile, I watch this trash because I find the dance of plot and viewer justifications fascinating and hilarious. As conspiratorial as what I said above is, this tendency towards justifications of greater complexity and far-fetchedness (and, interestingly, self-reference) is indeed real, as attested by Saekano, Rent-a-Girlfriend, More than a Married Couple, but Not Lovers., and plenty else. Further, I think the self-contradiction I describe above also appears in these shows. I wish one of them would be bold enough to own it; were Love Flops to totally switch gears, deprive Asahi of his delusion, and help him recover through real relationships, you could actually see that being both serious and touching. It's too late for Love Flops, though, because I don't think anything can recover from that particular fairy abomination, but Saekano really could have done such a thing. And that wouldn't even entail giving up the fanservice; putting the work into a story makes such far sexier.

This is kinda just what I do. Doing it here and getting shit on has been satisfyingly amusing.

But at this rate I think I might be more of a trash connoisseur than you.

Oh, I know. I will actually defend that these three are 10/10 to my grave. I just like the tittle of having three isekais as my favourites, since the genre, as a whole, is so bad.

When it comes to bad shit I enjoy, I’m mostly talking about RomComs and the fact I pick a bunch of shit every season.

Haven’t watched anime in the last few years because of exams, so I’m making up for it right now by following 16 seasonal animes.

Jul 31, 2023 8:58 PM

#67

Offline

May 2017

514

Isekai-Enjoyer said:

But yeah, about the friend thing, I do admit I actually took a liking to you as well. It’s rare to find someone who is so chill about having their tastes outright insulted.

I like this. Mostly because I can relate with going into unusually deep lengths when it comes to discussions like this.

So sure. I accept this request. Looking forward to more banters.

Great. This is actually another, deeper reason I do this—internet hard enough and every once and a while people will actually turn around. Thank you.

I love him who is ashamed when the dice fall in his favour and who then asks: Am I then a cheat? – for he wants to perish.

Jul 31, 2023 9:00 PM

#68

Offline

Jul 2020

597

auroraloose said:

Isekai-Enjoyer said:

I’m talking about Re:Zero, Mushoku Tensei and Konosuba.

Exclusively talking about anime, of course. Frankly, when it comes to media, I have few to no interest in other formats.

I do like actual books, though. Been a while since I last read a good one (entrance exams and shit), but I do still enjoy them as a format.

Yeah, though it is true I insist on books when we're talking about what the good stuff really is, not everyone has the time, and the fact anime is less mentally intensive is good. I wasn't reading Dialectic of Enlightenment when I was doing research, that's for sure.

But as for the isekai—I don't know, for trash those are pretty high-quality. Have you heard of Love Flops? Came out last year or something; that thing is bad. And from it I came up with this, over on the aforementioned MAL CR refuge forum:

[WARNING: this is seriously brain-melting stuff]

auroraloose said:
Episode 8

I hate science popularizers, but I swear, the harem anime genre is a way for the pure simulation stage of late capitalism to know itself. The layers of delusion and self-manipulation are just too much: Here we are supposed to take seriously the notion that everything up to now that has happened—a deluge of the standard harem shenanigans—is the result of AI doing a bad job learning how to love. To entertain this notion is to admit the unreality of the genre, but now that's the justification for this particular installment! And we're going to jump back in and love the broken AI. Clearly the researchers trained the thing primarily on anime. Out here in reality you could even imagine generating the plot for Love Flops itself by training an AI on the harem genre; the truly crazy algorithm is the one human civilization is running by watching and producing such stupid anime. We want the anime to keep coming, but we don't want to admit that what we want is trash, so as genre installments keep coming they engage in an ever more complex dance of plot justifications.

Granted, I imagine most of the viewers know what they want and why they're watching, and further aren't deluded as to quality. But they still need to believe in the illusion; the crazier the edifice, the easier it can collapse. If the harem genre has to work ever harder to maintain the illusion, seeing that work itself is a reminder that it's an illusion. (This is a deconstruction, by the way—not that the harem genre is unrealistic, which is neither here nor there, but that the struggle to justify it inherently makes it more difficult to justify, a self-contradiction.) DARLING in the FRANXX suffered such collapse, to the point that it became the antagonist it showed us. Here, we have Asahi, who spent several months in a fake and utterly convenient harem situation, suddenly discovering that all the fawning he was getting was not only a giant delusion, but one that was tailored to distort reality into a wish-fulfillment fantasy that can never obtain. Sound familiar? All Love Flops would need to do is take the tiniest step sideways: Asahi doesn't get his virtual harem back, because of course none of that could ever happen. And he's left depressed and damaged as he returns to a difficult and unglamorous world. Just like, hey, we do when we stop watching this crap. Even more, the more we start to rely on it the more we feel like Asahi does after being unplugged. After this episode it is far too easy for the viewer to imagine this scenario. And that we and Asahi are just going to jump back in, and he and we will get his virtual harem shenanigans back without at all addressing the big hole the show just left in our feelings, will make the self-contradiction even worse. The drug no longer provides the desired high, and there is only the crash and emptiness afterwards.

Of course, as this is all running on capitalism, what will happen is (i) anime will continue its path in the parameter space, as the interaction between viewers and content creators increases the complexity of its justifications for new installments and leads to tweaks and course corrections, and (ii) new technologies will emerge to compete with or replace anime in the wish-fulfillment industry. Like, maybe, a technology that can give you a three-month delusion of a harem during a single night's sleep, literally being inserted as the self-insert character.

Meanwhile, I watch this trash because I find the dance of plot and viewer justifications fascinating and hilarious. As conspiratorial as what I said above is, this tendency towards justifications of greater complexity and far-fetchedness (and, interestingly, self-reference) is indeed real, as attested by Saekano, Rent-a-Girlfriend, More than a Married Couple, but Not Lovers., and plenty else. Further, I think the self-contradiction I describe above also appears in these shows. I wish one of them would be bold enough to own it; were Love Flops to totally switch gears, deprive Asahi of his delusion, and help him recover through real relationships, you could actually see that being both serious and touching. It's too late for Love Flops, though, because I don't think anything can recover from that particular fairy abomination, but Saekano really could have done such a thing. And that wouldn't even entail giving up the fanservice; putting the work into a story makes such far sexier.

This is kinda just what I do. Doing it here and getting shit on has been satisfyingly amusing.

But at this rate I think I might be more of a trash connoisseur than you.

Well, that’s fair. I do get the enjoyment out of this endless Internet banter.

I’m a former Reddit veteran. Gladly deleted my account some months ago, but point being, you can definitely see that I’m used to this.

I can respect that.

Jul 31, 2023 9:03 PM

#69

Offline

Jul 2020

597

auroraloose said:

Isekai-Enjoyer said:

But yeah, about the friend thing, I do admit I actually took a liking to you as well. It’s rare to find someone who is so chill about having their tastes outright insulted.

I like this. Mostly because I can relate with going into unusually deep lengths when it comes to discussions like this.

So sure. I accept this request. Looking forward to more banters.

Great. This is actually another, deeper reason I do this—internet hard enough and every once and a while people will actually turn around. Thank you.

We are seriously going into an anime friendship arc, huh?

Actually funny as shit. Glad to know you.

I can relate to this feeling. Knowing people after shared interests feels good.

From internet loser to internet loser, I tip my hat to you.

Jul 31, 2023 9:03 PM

#70

Offline

May 2017

514

Isekai-Enjoyer said:

auroraloose said:

Yeah, though it is true I insist on books when we're talking about what the good stuff really is, not everyone has the time, and the fact anime is less mentally intensive is good. I wasn't reading Dialectic of Enlightenment when I was doing research, that's for sure.

But as for the isekai—I don't know, for trash those are pretty high-quality. Have you heard of Love Flops? Came out last year or something; that thing is bad. And from it I came up with this, over on the aforementioned MAL CR refuge forum:

[WARNING: this is seriously brain-melting stuff]

auroraloose said:
Episode 8

I hate science popularizers, but I swear, the harem anime genre is a way for the pure simulation stage of late capitalism to know itself. The layers of delusion and self-manipulation are just too much: Here we are supposed to take seriously the notion that everything up to now that has happened—a deluge of the standard harem shenanigans—is the result of AI doing a bad job learning how to love. To entertain this notion is to admit the unreality of the genre, but now that's the justification for this particular installment! And we're going to jump back in and love the broken AI. Clearly the researchers trained the thing primarily on anime. Out here in reality you could even imagine generating the plot for Love Flops itself by training an AI on the harem genre; the truly crazy algorithm is the one human civilization is running by watching and producing such stupid anime. We want the anime to keep coming, but we don't want to admit that what we want is trash, so as genre installments keep coming they engage in an ever more complex dance of plot justifications.

Granted, I imagine most of the viewers know what they want and why they're watching, and further aren't deluded as to quality. But they still need to believe in the illusion; the crazier the edifice, the easier it can collapse. If the harem genre has to work ever harder to maintain the illusion, seeing that work itself is a reminder that it's an illusion. (This is a deconstruction, by the way—not that the harem genre is unrealistic, which is neither here nor there, but that the struggle to justify it inherently makes it more difficult to justify, a self-contradiction.) DARLING in the FRANXX suffered such collapse, to the point that it became the antagonist it showed us. Here, we have Asahi, who spent several months in a fake and utterly convenient harem situation, suddenly discovering that all the fawning he was getting was not only a giant delusion, but one that was tailored to distort reality into a wish-fulfillment fantasy that can never obtain. Sound familiar? All Love Flops would need to do is take the tiniest step sideways: Asahi doesn't get his virtual harem back, because of course none of that could ever happen. And he's left depressed and damaged as he returns to a difficult and unglamorous world. Just like, hey, we do when we stop watching this crap. Even more, the more we start to rely on it the more we feel like Asahi does after being unplugged. After this episode it is far too easy for the viewer to imagine this scenario. And that we and Asahi are just going to jump back in, and he and we will get his virtual harem shenanigans back without at all addressing the big hole the show just left in our feelings, will make the self-contradiction even worse. The drug no longer provides the desired high, and there is only the crash and emptiness afterwards.

Of course, as this is all running on capitalism, what will happen is (i) anime will continue its path in the parameter space, as the interaction between viewers and content creators increases the complexity of its justifications for new installments and leads to tweaks and course corrections, and (ii) new technologies will emerge to compete with or replace anime in the wish-fulfillment industry. Like, maybe, a technology that can give you a three-month delusion of a harem during a single night's sleep, literally being inserted as the self-insert character.

Meanwhile, I watch this trash because I find the dance of plot and viewer justifications fascinating and hilarious. As conspiratorial as what I said above is, this tendency towards justifications of greater complexity and far-fetchedness (and, interestingly, self-reference) is indeed real, as attested by Saekano, Rent-a-Girlfriend, More than a Married Couple, but Not Lovers., and plenty else. Further, I think the self-contradiction I describe above also appears in these shows. I wish one of them would be bold enough to own it; were Love Flops to totally switch gears, deprive Asahi of his delusion, and help him recover through real relationships, you could actually see that being both serious and touching. It's too late for Love Flops, though, because I don't think anything can recover from that particular fairy abomination, but Saekano really could have done such a thing. And that wouldn't even entail giving up the fanservice; putting the work into a story makes such far sexier.

This is kinda just what I do. Doing it here and getting shit on has been satisfyingly amusing.

But at this rate I think I might be more of a trash connoisseur than you.

Well, that’s fair. I do get the enjoyment out of this endless Internet banter.

I’m a former Reddit veteran. Gladly deleted my account some months ago, but point being, you can definitely see that I’m used to this.

I can respect that.

Yeah reddit I never got used to; I was there, but it was too fast. Anyway, we've kind of drifted, so again, thank you. And try Love Flops sometime if you like harem/romcom trash. It will not disappoint.

I love him who is ashamed when the dice fall in his favour and who then asks: Am I then a cheat? – for he wants to perish.

Jul 31, 2023 9:04 PM

#71

semicolon4193

Offline

Jul 2022

33

you know what I'm gonna do a complete 180 in attitude compared to everyone else and say I respect your opinion. personally even though I love horror and I will say dark gathering did horror better. I personally found UGMF more interesting. it's just more my type of thing. but I can understand why some people would prefer Dark Gathering. sorry I didn't know the points you made though since I didn't have enough time to read the whole thing.

Jul 31, 2023 9:06 PM

#72

Offline

Jul 2020

597

auroraloose said:

Isekai-Enjoyer said:

auroraloose said:

Isekai-Enjoyer said:

I’m talking about Re:Zero, Mushoku Tensei and Konosuba.

Exclusively talking about anime, of course. Frankly, when it comes to media, I have few to no interest in other formats.

I do like actual books, though. Been a while since I last read a good one (entrance exams and shit), but I do still enjoy them as a format.

Yeah, though it is true I insist on books when we're talking about what the good stuff really is, not everyone has the time, and the fact anime is less mentally intensive is good. I wasn't reading Dialectic of Enlightenment when I was doing research, that's for sure.

But as for the isekai—I don't know, for trash those are pretty high-quality. Have you heard of Love Flops? Came out last year or something; that thing is bad. And from it I came up with this, over on the aforementioned MAL CR refuge forum:

[WARNING: this is seriously brain-melting stuff]

auroraloose said:
Episode 8

I hate science popularizers, but I swear, the harem anime genre is a way for the pure simulation stage of late capitalism to know itself. The layers of delusion and self-manipulation are just too much: Here we are supposed to take seriously the notion that everything up to now that has happened—a deluge of the standard harem shenanigans—is the result of AI doing a bad job learning how to love. To entertain this notion is to admit the unreality of the genre, but now that's the justification for this particular installment! And we're going to jump back in and love the broken AI. Clearly the researchers trained the thing primarily on anime. Out here in reality you could even imagine generating the plot for Love Flops itself by training an AI on the harem genre; the truly crazy algorithm is the one human civilization is running by watching and producing such stupid anime. We want the anime to keep coming, but we don't want to admit that what we want is trash, so as genre installments keep coming they engage in an ever more complex dance of plot justifications.

Granted, I imagine most of the viewers know what they want and why they're watching, and further aren't deluded as to quality. But they still need to believe in the illusion; the crazier the edifice, the easier it can collapse. If the harem genre has to work ever harder to maintain the illusion, seeing that work itself is a reminder that it's an illusion. (This is a deconstruction, by the way—not that the harem genre is unrealistic, which is neither here nor there, but that the struggle to justify it inherently makes it more difficult to justify, a self-contradiction.) DARLING in the FRANXX suffered such collapse, to the point that it became the antagonist it showed us. Here, we have Asahi, who spent several months in a fake and utterly convenient harem situation, suddenly discovering that all the fawning he was getting was not only a giant delusion, but one that was tailored to distort reality into a wish-fulfillment fantasy that can never obtain. Sound familiar? All Love Flops would need to do is take the tiniest step sideways: Asahi doesn't get his virtual harem back, because of course none of that could ever happen. And he's left depressed and damaged as he returns to a difficult and unglamorous world. Just like, hey, we do when we stop watching this crap. Even more, the more we start to rely on it the more we feel like Asahi does after being unplugged. After this episode it is far too easy for the viewer to imagine this scenario. And that we and Asahi are just going to jump back in, and he and we will get his virtual harem shenanigans back without at all addressing the big hole the show just left in our feelings, will make the self-contradiction even worse. The drug no longer provides the desired high, and there is only the crash and emptiness afterwards.

Of course, as this is all running on capitalism, what will happen is (i) anime will continue its path in the parameter space, as the interaction between viewers and content creators increases the complexity of its justifications for new installments and leads to tweaks and course corrections, and (ii) new technologies will emerge to compete with or replace anime in the wish-fulfillment industry. Like, maybe, a technology that can give you a three-month delusion of a harem during a single night's sleep, literally being inserted as the self-insert character.

Meanwhile, I watch this trash because I find the dance of plot and viewer justifications fascinating and hilarious. As conspiratorial as what I said above is, this tendency towards justifications of greater complexity and far-fetchedness (and, interestingly, self-reference) is indeed real, as attested by Saekano, Rent-a-Girlfriend, More than a Married Couple, but Not Lovers., and plenty else. Further, I think the self-contradiction I describe above also appears in these shows. I wish one of them would be bold enough to own it; were Love Flops to totally switch gears, deprive Asahi of his delusion, and help him recover through real relationships, you could actually see that being both serious and touching. It's too late for Love Flops, though, because I don't think anything can recover from that particular fairy abomination, but Saekano really could have done such a thing. And that wouldn't even entail giving up the fanservice; putting the work into a story makes such far sexier.

This is kinda just what I do. Doing it here and getting shit on has been satisfyingly amusing.

But at this rate I think I might be more of a trash connoisseur than you.

Well, that’s fair. I do get the enjoyment out of this endless Internet banter.

I’m a former Reddit veteran. Gladly deleted my account some months ago, but point being, you can definitely see that I’m used to this.

I can respect that.

Yeah reddit I never got used to; I was there, but it was too fast. Anyway, we've kind of drifted, so again, thank you. And try Love Flops sometime if you like harem/romcom trash. It will not disappoint.

Yep. I thank you as well.

Will check it out.

Jul 31, 2023 9:06 PM

#73

Tanmoy1OO

Offline

Jun 2022

16

why are you comparing them both have a different story ,

and I am watching both of them

Jul 31, 2023 9:56 PM

#74

hKonata

Offline

Jan 2016

314

What u say is like comparing oranges with pears. They are different animes...

Jul 31, 2023 11:14 PM

#75

ktg

Offline

May 2016

2082

Isekai-Enjoyer said:

ktg said:

Isekai-Enjoyer said:

ktg said:

Isekai-Enjoyer said:

ktg said:

MaroMangas623 said:
but saying Datk Gathering is for people with low education is extremely pretentious

The more pol. correct answer is, the show is for younger people, but the end of the day it is for the younger people because of their educational level.
And we can it's pretentious, but that won't change the facts. Like how there are shounen and seinen shows.

What you watch, what you like, what you do, all depends on your educational level. For example, there is a study where they separated people based on if they watch anime or not and tested their critical thinking. It turned out that the people who watch anime have significantly better critical thinking.
If you want a more obvious example, watch Godzilla Singular Point. I'm a software engineer and the sci-fi dialogues about science in that show are really entertaining... for me. Most people call it boring because of the "technobabble". Simply because a physicist wrote the script. You most likely won't enjoy it without higher education in specific sciences.

Isekai-Enjoyer said:
I will have to disagree with you statement about UGMF.

The characters are 100% why most people are enjoying the show. It’s their dynamic that mostly carries it.

Dialogue is only enjoyable because of the characters. Not the other way around.

There I was talking about the first episode, because she mentioned the first episode. In the first episode we did't really know anything about the characters.

We knew a lot about the protagonist. In fact, most of what we know about him came from the first episode.

The first episode has two major things about it: the world building, the protagonist and the ending.

Sure, the dialogue was extremely well crafted as well. But I dare saying this is more of a consequence of the rest than anything else.

It’s an anime about dialogue lol. 90% of it is dialogue.

You might as well say dialogue is the plot itself.

In which case, then yeah, the dialogue is quite amazing. But it still wouldn’t be anything without the other elements.

We know his background, but not really his personality. I rewatched the first ep now and half of the episode wasn't even about any dialogues. There were 3 or 4 fights and that's mostly it. 2 fights against oni, 3 if you count the cat and 1 fight against Shizuku.
After that started the dialogues which was about their backgrounds, what is Aya, how is she alive, why is she there and the same about Tsugaru.

So in the first episode, while the dialogues were really good, we didn't really learned about their personalities that much, but more about their background, about the world itself. That's what I was talking about.
As for clarification, at that point, you could hardly tell how it would continue, because you learned what you need to learn about their backgrounds. It was a worldbuilding episode.

We didn’t learn about his personality…?

A goofy ass circus clown who seems like he doesn’t care about shit, but is actually quite compassionate deep down. This was shown pretty well in the first episode alright.

A man who really just wants to live in peace, but was eventually exploited by William James Moriarty and became a half-aberration. He knew he was going to die, so he figured he might as well go out with a bang.

This alone shows a lot about who he is. Dude straight up wanted to murder bad guys for shits and giggles.

He hates people who enjoy seeing others suffering, so we can figure he has an actual real moral compass underneath the goofy ass facade.

That said, he still IS a goofy jerk, which is shown, well, basically all of the time. It’s in his dialogue, his monologue and all of his interactions.

He is well characterised from the start. Say what you want, but this anime really isn’t some secrete masterpiece that only “well educated” people can enjoy. It’s just something with good characters and an interesting enough story. The dialogue is great, yeah, but it’s not some revolutionary shit that only smart boys can truly appreciate.

It’s just a good anime like many others. A solid 8/10.

Like, holy shit my man, I’m don’t even disagree with most of your statements.

It’s just that you’re weirdly obnoxious about it. Like, godamn, quit sounding like a Rick and Morty fan.

Can you tell me what's his favorite food? His type of woman? Wat you call compassionate here can be also explained as want to get revenge on people who make use of his scars and that's interpretation is not deep, because that's how the most shallow man on Earth would think.
No, after the first ep, we can't say that "He hates people who enjoy seeing others suffering".

After the first episode, there's too many questions and up to the audience to interpret it and give meaning to his words, but the show itself didn't make it clear at that point.

(It's ok, I don't like Rick and Morty. It's too episodic for me.)

Favorite food? Type of woman? You mean things that absolutely do not matter for the general characterisation of maybe 99% of all characters ever…?

I do agree it’s good to show this kind of thing overtime, but it’s barely a necessity at all. Let alone a priority.

“Wanting to get revenge on the people who inflicted these scars on him”

Uh, no. That’s not it at all. I’m not interpreting anything in the first place. He straight up STATES that he thinks it would be nice to get the world rid of some garbage. And then he straight up describes “garbage” as “the people who watch this kind of thing”.

He does all of that as a secondary goal, which he immediately gives up on once he discovers that he can keep living by kissing a headless waifu he just met.

All of that shows he is indeed a quite shallow person, but not a “generic ass” kind of shallow.

He is actually shallow. He is a bro who wants to keep living but figures he would kill some assholes if he was about to die anyways.

Then he gives up on it. Because this wasn’t his main goal.

If anything, that’s a pretty interesting mindset. Indeed, it’s not masterful or anything, but it’s by no means something you would see everyday. Not to the point of calling it “the shallowest thing one would think”. Let alone saying the characters himself is poorly characterised.

The show truly doesn’t leave that many up to interpretation. The man is pretty clear with what he says and thinks.

He is a very well written character, but he’s truly not that kind of character. He’s not the “just interpret lmao” kind of character.

Good that you don’t watch Rick and Morty, though. This is reassuring.

You are interpreting the "this kind of thing" part. That could mean several things, like the fight itself, the murder or simply the MC who was used by others. Based on what's your interpretation is, you have a different character.
Like I said, for example, if he meant it as revenge, where he wants revenge because people enjoying his misery. The body, the power he got, but never wanted. If this is true, then we can easily see why he wants to find the person who did this. And he didn't change because he can live longer with Aya's kisses, but because Aya can feel where her body is.

We don't know if he's truly shallow and probably not, based on the last episode flashback.

ktgJul 31, 2023 11:26 PM

Jul 31, 2023 11:28 PM

#76

ktg

Offline

May 2016

2082

auroraloose said:

ktg said:

That's a letter that sits next to my enter.

Oh—I thought you might have been intending to type some sarcasm emoji or something, because I really need some context here. Are you like, truly a Ben Shapiro fan or something?

EDIT: I should say, I have no desire to start any political arguments. There are far better ways to be conservative than Ben Shapiro, and better formulations of it. But there is another toilet besides the Mystery Toilet, and it is the "facts don't care about your feelings" toilet. This kind of stuff is the opposite of intellectual.

See? you keep talking about different things, because you can't prove your points or refute my points. That's, again, a fallacy.

auroraloose said:
Undead Murder Farce is a manga or something, I don't care. A light novel is not a novel

It is a novel. Bakemonogatari is a light novel, Undead Girl Murder Farce, in fact, is a novel, not a light novel. There's a different category for that on MAL.

auroraloose said:
Do you—read? Like, really read. Like Dialectic of Enlightenment read, or The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy, Gentleman read.

And... do you notice the pattern here? People asked for proof, because you just randomly came up with some statements and because you can't prove it, you keep pointing to other literary works.

PS. Just because you love Ben Shapiro and act like him that won't necessary be true for others.
I pointed out that you committed a fallacy, they teach at highschool to avoid that. If you think that makes someone Ben Shapiro, you have serious problems. :)

Jul 31, 2023 11:51 PM

#77

Triggerfish124

Offline

Nov 2021

516

Damn you wrote a lot. Didnt really read it cause I'm only watching Dark Gathering, but it is what it is mate. Theres always at least one anime that doesnt get the recognition you think it deserves. But anyways its not like you writing all this is going to change it because the only people who will see it are the people who are already watching Dark Gathering (I think. I mostly use the mobile app and I only see discussion posts for anime I have in my lists.).
Personally I think Dark Gathering is good, although its kind of carried by Yayoi. Nonspooky scenes are just okay imo. Eiko's split personality is a bit weird but intriguing. Tbh don't really like our mc that much. I don't hate him, its just he's kind of holding everything back. As it is his personality doesn't really seem to match what Eiko said in episode 1, that he likes to be scared. ig it could just be she is using him as a way to self reflect, but she seems to know that she loves spooky stuff so idk.

Aug 1, 2023 1:07 AM

#78

grimsworth

Offline

Sep 2021

10

I ain't reading allat

Aug 1, 2023 1:21 AM

#79

HigherLvLThinker

Offline

Dec 2021

857

Why didn't you post a review in the review section

If you want to reply to my posts, come up with valid arguments instead of ad hominem HIGHER LEVEL THINKERS ONLY

Aug 1, 2023 2:26 AM

#80

Piromysl

Online

Jul 2015

13607

Tldr version for anyone interested.

Never wrote anime thoughts on Crunchyroll forums; posted on MAL's CR forum refugee group. Dark Gathering better than Undead Murder Farce. Dislike detective genre; prefers serious and moral shows like Shiki or Hell Girl. Undead Murder Farce ruined characters with detective focus. Dark Gathering balances horror and character well. Yayoi's sadism makes her a compelling character. Dark Gathering uses monsters to explore human relationships. Art in Dark Gathering forgivable despite flaws. Remember Dark Gathering's music, not Undead Murder Farce's. Limited knowledge of Dark Gathering; only watched four episodes on HIDIVE.

You are comparing apples to oranges, because those two series are nothing alike. You also forgot to mention, that it is your opinion, not an objective statement.

I think both series strong 8/10.
Not really a fan of detective shows, but characters make it up for me. Especially the maid. I love maids in anime and this one is good.
Yaoi is indeed a phenomenal character. A perfect mix of moe and creepy which should not be possible, buy here they delivered. Also, KanaHana voicing yandere for the first time since 2018 is a godsend.

PiromyslAug 1, 2023 2:32 AM

Aug 1, 2023 2:53 AM

#81

RobertBobert

Offline

Apr 2012

24617

It's silly to compare them just because they're both horror. The first show is a mystical thriller in the style of J-Horror, and the second is an action-detective in a horror and history setting.

Aug 1, 2023 3:32 AM

#82

Fancyjasper

Offline

May 2014

3442

I enjoy both, but Dark Gathering is much more my cup of tea. One of my faves.

I certainly don't mind all the dialogue in Undead Girl, but it's clear to see it's adapted from a book and probably works better as one than an anime. Dark Gathering is taking from a manga, so it flows a lot better overall in anime form. Yeah it would've been nice if it had higher quality animation, as a result the manga version is superior for sure, but just hearing the voice actors and music adds a lot.

Aug 1, 2023 5:17 AM

#83

bahimiron

Offline

Mar 2023

265

Since we're having some well-considered discussions sensibly comparing two different shows, I figured that it's high time I finally got something off of my chest. I don't like tall naked people AND I hate it when people talk about walls, which is inconvertible proof that Attack on Titan is not as good as Everybody Loves Raymond.

Undeniably, the Japanese anime series "Attack on Titan" has plummeted to a lower echelon of television viewing due to the most egregious of offenses: the preponderance of tall, naked humanoids and the incessant chatter about walls. These elements single-handedly eclipse the monumental success of the classic American sitcom "Everybody Loves Raymond."

The existence of towering, naked figures in "Attack on Titan" is a profound affront to the sensibilities of discerning viewers. An unsuspecting audience member, tuning in for what they expect to be a compelling narrative, is instead subjected to the unsolicited sight of colossal, unclothed entities wreaking havoc. Meanwhile, the characters of "Everybody Loves Raymond" remain fully clothed at all times, respecting the boundaries of the viewer and preserving the inherent dignity of the sitcom genre.

Furthermore, the persistent mention of walls in "Attack on Titan" is an undeniably burdensome feature. The monotonous dialogue concerning walls—be it their height, thickness, or the lamentable need for their existence—becomes a relentless cycle of ennui, making each episode feel like an extended seminar on civil engineering. Contrastingly, "Everybody Loves Raymond" has the decency to focus on a variety of subjects, thus ensuring that each episode feels fresh and engaging.

"Everybody Loves Raymond" triumphs over "Attack on Titan" by avoiding the pitfall of an over-reliance on large naked characters. The genius of this sitcom lies in its ability to offer hilarity without the unnecessary display of gargantuan nudity. This is clear evidence of the superiority of "Everybody Loves Raymond," demonstrating that compelling storytelling requires no need for oversized, unclothed figures.

Equally commendable is the sitcom's judicious avoidance of incessant wall talk. "Everybody Loves Raymond" is a shining example of how to craft captivating dialogue without mentioning the construction, destruction, or detailed specifications of any architectural structures. The Barone family's witty banter revolves around relatable everyday experiences, rather than an unending discourse on barriers.

In summary, "Attack on Titan" pales in comparison to "Everybody Loves Raymond" due to its ill-advised reliance on depictions of tall, naked entities and unending dialogue about walls. The American sitcom, with its fully clothed characters and diversified topics of conversation, undoubtedly reigns supreme in the realm of television, proving that height, nudity, and wall-based discussions are not prerequisites for compelling content.

Aug 1, 2023 9:55 AM

#84

ChouunShiryuu

Offline

Feb 2022

2970

I feel the exact same way about the two (˵ ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°˵.)ﾉ⌒♡*:・Skimmed a little now, but I'm about to read it later cause your favourites list has me convinced there's cultured takes in there. comment-bookmarked.

Aug 1, 2023 12:08 PM

#85

Fluffygreygrass

Community Mod

꧁❃꧂꧁❃꧂꧁❃꧂꧁❃꧂

Offline

Nov 2022

839

UMF is more interesting and I’m saying this despite being a huge Hanakana simp. Dark has been good so far, but UMF is simply better in every aspect.

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Aug 1, 2023 4:57 PM

#86

Jonas-K

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Mar 2019

3645

Those 2 are fuckin boring, not that it means anything hehe.

Aug 1, 2023 5:26 PM

#87

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May 2017

514

ktg said:

See? you keep talking about different things, because you can't prove your points or refute my points. That's, again, a fallacy.
[...]

PS. Just because you love Ben Shapiro and act like him that won't necessary be true for others.
I pointed out that you committed a fallacy, they teach at highschool to avoid that. If you think that makes someone Ben Shapiro, you have serious problems. :)

This is the problem: If you make a point that is based on deeper points—points you may or may not realize you're appealing to, because most people aren't good at argumentation, or at realizing what is behind their own philosophies—it may be that the correct way to refute the surface-level points is to refute the deeper ones. Per Arthur C. Clarke, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic; skirmishing in a little hallway in a parapet means nothing when I've swept the whole castle away.

You see, fallacies are just a part of the art of rhetoric; one must also be able to read the ontological fabric of an argument. Doesn't do you any good to know bare logic when you have no idea how to apply it to enormous, complicated systems. This is why I bring up Ben Shapiro; not because I like him, but because he is a representative of the particularly naive variety of reasoning you're presenting here. You don't want to be like him.

As to the novel/light novel distinction, it does seem that whatever Undead Murder Farce is was published specifically under a novel imprint of Kodansha. I don't really give a crap, though, because I was talking about real novels. Many things we call novels are not real novels. The Hunger Games made it as a movie; that doesn't stop it from having the literary value of used toilet paper. Perhaps the appropriate category (not treating things as if they're rigorous) is that of the young adult novel, but again, don't really care.

I love him who is ashamed when the dice fall in his favour and who then asks: Am I then a cheat? – for he wants to perish.

Aug 1, 2023 5:27 PM

#88

Deviiilchan

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Apr 2023

101

bro wrote a full Essay on this

Aug 1, 2023 5:41 PM

#89

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May 2017

514

bahimiron said:
Since we're having some well-considered discussions sensibly comparing two different shows, I figured that it's high time I finally got something off of my chest. I don't like tall naked people AND I hate it when people talk about walls, which is inconvertible proof that Attack on Titan is not as good as Everybody Loves Raymond.

[...]

Well now, I am happy to have inspired someone to dedicate time to applying my wisdom. I only have to bang my head on the desk, like, 20 times, to be able to appreciate what you did there.

But—why didst thou live so long by the swamp, that thou thyself hadst to become a frog and a toad? You should train and use your powers for literary-critical good, and not in service of the small and petty. As just about everyone here has failed to understand—hence all the "apples and oranges," "taste is subjective," and "you're just upset the show you like isn't as popular" responses—the similarity between Undead Murder Farce and Dark Gathering is not in their slight overlap in horror, paranormal, and mystery themes, but in that both are interesting cases of attempting to resolve the tension between genre and genre installment. As they're both airing the same season, they provide an apt and useful contrast.

But I should be more sparing with my praise; perhaps you just ran this through a bot or something? Big words should be there for a reason, not just as embellishment.

I love him who is ashamed when the dice fall in his favour and who then asks: Am I then a cheat? – for he wants to perish.

Aug 1, 2023 8:36 PM

#90

Night_Owl_264

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Sep 2021

3

But why compare both of them? I like both of them, doesn't matter which is getting more recognition or is perceived better, it doesn't affect my experience.

Aug 1, 2023 8:57 PM

#91

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Nov 2017

21

Just enjoy whatever you like and stop comparing things like you are some edgy teen.

Aug 1, 2023 9:38 PM

#92

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May 2017

514

RyuzakiKen99 said:
Just enjoy whatever you like and stop comparing things like you are some edgy teen.

Certainly not. Humans are a community with history and direction. We do not simply enjoy things on our own. We make anime, apparently, based on what is popular, and are often told we cannot have various things because they wouldn't sell. It really is astonishing just how far capitalism reaches, even living in our mundane assessments of art appreciation.

I would like to enjoy better things. I would like you to enjoy better things, too. As to comparison, I've said more than enough justifying what I'm doing; find me an edgy teen who talks about genre deconstruction or the historical development of forms of literature. And since you insist, if the principle is just not to rock the boat and let people live little isolated, atomized lives and art experiences, why bother commenting? Such a principle disproves itself.

I love him who is ashamed when the dice fall in his favour and who then asks: Am I then a cheat? – for he wants to perish.

Aug 1, 2023 9:43 PM

#93

Offline

Nov 2017

21

Are you a Nazi or something , you have this super race mentality thinking yours is better like the German NSDAP and while comparing everything and thinking one is better than others.

Aug 1, 2023 9:59 PM

#94

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May 2017

514

RyuzakiKen99 said:
Are you a Nazi or something , you have this super race mentality thinking yours is better like the German NSDAP and while comparing everything and thinking one is better than others.

Ah yes, critical theory, that lodestar of Nazism.

Have read some Hitler; sounded a lot like Jordan Peterson. Fascism is based in artificial pseudo-scientific and pseudo-cultural constructs, like the German, or the Italian, or the American. Germany was a hundred little principalities; there was no one German race. All that got bulldozed by a powerful, chauvinist Leviathan intent on blood.

The problem here is again that Clarke quote, that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. I'm assuming you don't go around reading Machiavelli, Fukuyama, Adorno, and such. Marx is pretty funny actually; hilarious snark. Lol, now I'm reminded of the time an old conservative physicist claimed I wanted to send him to the camps after I said something bland about how we can actually make conclusions from political philosophy.

So no, I am not a Nazi. Though I can't say your question, or this thread, makes me more enthusiastic for democracy.

I love him who is ashamed when the dice fall in his favour and who then asks: Am I then a cheat? – for he wants to perish.

Aug 1, 2023 10:05 PM

#95

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Nov 2017

21

Bro stop spamming bullshit if you don't know what you are talking about . As a political science student studying in Moscow State University, reading your comment makes my head hurt. Is the Western weeb so deranged from reality or is your schools and colleges just made up of Capitalism good and communism bad like in cold war.

Ебать из западного Weeb

Aug 1, 2023 10:09 PM

#96

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May 2017

514

RyuzakiKen99 said:
Bro stop spamming bullshit if you don't know what you are talking about . As a political science student studying in Moscow State University, reading your comment makes my head hurt. Is the Western weeb so deranged from reality or is your schools and colleges just made up of Capitalism good and communism bad like in cold war.

Ебать из западного Weeb

Do—do you know who Karl Marx is? Do you know who Theodor Adorno is? Do you know what critical theory is?

Try reading my comment a few more times. And my other ones. I'm wondering how you got approval of capitalism out of any of that.

I love him who is ashamed when the dice fall in his favour and who then asks: Am I then a cheat? – for he wants to perish.

Aug 1, 2023 10:12 PM

#97

Offline

Nov 2017

21

I would rather fight in Bakhmut than read your deranged comments .

Aug 1, 2023 10:21 PM

#98

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May 2017

514

RyuzakiKen99 said:
I would rather fight in Bakhmut than read your deranged comments .

Sir, this is a Wendy's?

Man, seriously; I've got Ben Shapiro clones spitting multiplication tables at me because I'm too leftist, and now I'm Zelensky fighting for Western democracy?

MAL got me feeling like Eiko at the end of episode 4. This is way too much fun.

I'm sorry you got confused; even Marxism is a Western philosophy, after all. But no way am I talking about the War in Ukraine; this thing exploded with just my opinion that loli ghost murderer is better than detective miss head-in-a-birdcage.

I love him who is ashamed when the dice fall in his favour and who then asks: Am I then a cheat? – for he wants to perish.

Aug 1, 2023 10:27 PM

#99

Offline

Nov 2017

21

I wanted to stop commenting and go out and drink some vodka but you completely missed what I commented . As a Russian I said I would rather go fight in Bakhmut then read your comments , where else will I go fight , In your backyard ?

Zelensky is a foolish clown , and I didn't even compare you to him .

You are over thinking even simple things , go drink some vodka and smoke some cigs or weed and cool your mind .

Aug 1, 2023 10:36 PM

#100

Offline

May 2017

514

RyuzakiKen99 said:
I wanted to stop commenting and go out and drink some vodka but you completely missed what I commented . As a Russian I said I would rather go fight in Bakhmut then read your comments , where else will I go fight , In your backyard ?

Zelensky is a foolish clown , and I didn't even compare you to him .

You are over thinking even simple things , go drink some vodka and smoke some cigs or weed and cool your mind .

Oh, I got it; it's just—sir, this is a Wendy's.

Anyway, read any Adorno for your political science classes? He's like my favorite. Was a composer too, so his off-the-wall hatred for jazz is actually based in both crazy philosophy and serious understanding of music. Over here in America Adorno is hated as one of the leftist founders of "cultural Marxism," which isn't a real thing but should tell you where Adorno stands on things, and thus where I stand as well.

I love him who is ashamed when the dice fall in his favour and who then asks: Am I then a cheat? – for he wants to perish.

Aug 1, 2023 10:46 PM

#101

EdgyLord666

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Oct 2021

2037

Eh they aren't that similar for you to rec this one to switch from that one.

What's the point of this post anyway? Just to break mal rules?

Aug 1, 2023 10:51 PM

#102

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May 2017

514

EdgyLord666 said:
Eh they aren't that similar for you to rec this one to switch from that one.

What's the point of this post anyway? Just to break mal rules?

I don't see how this breaks any of the rules.

Also, nowhere am I saying one should switch from watching Undead Murder Farce to Dark Gathering; it's still entirely possible Undead Murder Farce reverses course and gets back to what's good about it. I even say this in the initial post.

I love him who is ashamed when the dice fall in his favour and who then asks: Am I then a cheat? – for he wants to perish.

Aug 2, 2023 12:36 AM

#103

EdgyLord666

Offline

Oct 2021

2037

auroraloose said:

EdgyLord666 said:
Eh they aren't that similar for you to rec this one to switch from that one.

What's the point of this post anyway? Just to break mal rules?

I don't see how this breaks any of the rules.

Also, nowhere am I saying one should switch from watching Undead Murder Farce to Dark Gathering; it's still entirely possible Undead Murder Farce reverses course and gets back to what's good about it. I even say this in the initial post.

It is,
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2105522

That's why I asked your point, maybe you're just salty about the "fluff treatment"?

Aug 2, 2023 3:45 AM

#104

Luigi11Ism

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Jan 2020

178

Bro doesn’t write a college essay like that.

Aug 2, 2023 9:11 AM

#105

Offline

May 2017

514

EdgyLord666 said:

auroraloose said:

I don't see how this breaks any of the rules.

Also, nowhere am I saying one should switch from watching Undead Murder Farce to Dark Gathering; it's still entirely possible Undead Murder Farce reverses course and gets back to what's good about it. I even say this in the initial post.

It is,
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2105522

That's why I asked your point, maybe you're just salty about the "fluff treatment"?

Ah—see, this isn't random at all! It's rather clear, specific, and directly related to both what these shows are doing and how they're addressing similar problems. It's just that the relevant problem (genre deconstruction) is off the radar for the average person apparently, because it requires a bit of thought to understand. This is why the Everybody Loves Raymond vs. Attack on Titan spoof comment above fails; such a thread would indeed be random.

I love him who is ashamed when the dice fall in his favour and who then asks: Am I then a cheat? – for he wants to perish.

Aug 2, 2023 11:46 AM

#106

Offline

May 2017

514

Luigi11Ism said:
Bro doesn’t write a college essay like that.

College? I am insulted.

I love him who is ashamed when the dice fall in his favour and who then asks: Am I then a cheat? – for he wants to perish.

Aug 2, 2023 11:47 AM

#107

Luigi11Ism

Offline

Jan 2020

178

auroraloose said:

Luigi11Ism said:
Bro doesn’t write a college essay like that.

College? I am insulted.

I'm joking i'm joking. Sorry.

Aug 2, 2023 11:50 AM

#108

Offline

May 2017

514

Luigi11Ism said:

auroraloose said:

College? I am insulted.

I'm joking i'm joking. Sorry.

I'm joking too? Man, it's not like humanities people bite or anything. It's just, have you ever graded college work? It's not what you'd call top-grade. And these days you can generate essays with free LLMs. I may be a cyborg, but I'm not full robot.

I love him who is ashamed when the dice fall in his favour and who then asks: Am I then a cheat? – for he wants to perish.

Aug 2, 2023 11:22 PM

#109

Mazoy

Offline

May 2023

484

To sum up this wall of text for your convenience:

Detective Conan is chemtrails!

Aug 3, 2023 9:00 AM

#110