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DeathfireD said: ....What...wait.....why.....*head explodes*. They didn't confirm nor deny anything we've been hypothesizing since the beginning >:( damn it! Kinzo being dead before the game started was probably the only thing "true" but even so it wasn't verified in red (which I still have trouble approving as truth). Kinzo’s death is confirmed in red in the VN. I won't spoil Chiru, but here's a little food for thought: Kinzo being dead before (way before) the familly conference means that EVERYONE who claimed to have talked to him is lying. - Natsuhi and the "one-winged eagle is in your heart” scene in EP1? It never happened. - Rosa testifying that Shannon and Genji were with her and Kinzo in his study the whole time during Jessica’s murder in EP2? Another lie. And the list goes on. |
dioptase said: DeathfireD said: ....What...wait.....why.....*head explodes*. They didn't confirm nor deny anything we've been hypothesizing since the beginning >:( damn it! Kinzo being dead before the game started was probably the only thing "true" but even so it wasn't verified in red (which I still have trouble approving as truth). Kinzo’s death is confirmed in red in the VN. I won't spoil Chiru, but here's a little food for thought: Kinzo being dead before (way before) the familly conference means that EVERYONE who claimed to have talked to him is lying. - Natsuhi and the "one-winged eagle is in your heart” scene in EP1? It never happened. - Rosa testifying that Shannon and Genji were with her and Kinzo in his study the whole time during Jessica’s murder in EP2? Another lie. And the list goes on. You're quite right. The thing you have to realize with both Higurashi and Umineko is that what you see may not be true. Just because it was shown in a certain way doesn't mean it happened that way. |
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xcrusnikx said: You're quite right. The thing you have to realize with both Higurashi and Umineko is that what you see may not be true. Just because it was shown in a certain way doesn't mean it happened that way. Absolutely. Piece-Battler is the only 100% trustworthy POV during the game (when he’s sober of course). However, it’s stupid to totally discard every other scene (especially the magic ones), it’s explained in Chiru so I won’t say more. |
Chiisus said: this episode was just confusing, is this really the end? The end of the question arcs, yes. The answer arcs are released in Japan right now, so you're only halfway through the serie. |
| I want to punch somebody in the face. And know I have to wait a couple of months or years just to see the solution! DAMN IT! |
| Goddamn emo Battler. There's always someone there to revive him when he's near giving up. Can't he do anything by himself? I only like him when he's pointing and looking at Beatrice very angry. I liked how some of the mysteries were solved - the piano is cool too - but the last two arcs were crap IMO. Sakutaro was a bit like Boota in TTGL, a random animal character that somehow became a human but didn't add anything to the plot. Lots of things were left unsolved, we still don't know who Battlers mother is, whatever happened to finding a culprit ... |
| Goddamn emo Battler. There's always someone there to revive him when he's near giving up. Can't he do anything by himself? I only like him when he's pointing and looking at Beatrice very angry. I liked how some of the mysteries were solved - the piano is cool too - but the last two arcs were crap IMO. Sakutaro was a bit like Boota in TTGL, a random animal character that somehow became a human but didn't add anything to the plot. Lots of things were left unsolved, we still don't know who Battlers mother is, whatever happened to finding a culprit ... |
Jaapsneep said: I liked how some of the mysteries were solved - the piano is cool too - but the last two arcs were crap IMO. Sakutaro was a bit like Boota in TTGL, a random animal character that somehow became a human but didn't add anything to the plot. Lots of things were left unsolved, we still don't know who Battlers mother is, whatever happened to finding a culprit ... Nothing was solved by Battler except Kinzo being dead from the begining. Also, of course that we don't know the core of the mystery, it will be explained during the answer arcs.... |
| not a bad way to end o-o |
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dioptase said: Absolutely. Piece-Battler is the only 100% trustworthy POV during the game (when he’s sober of course). However, it’s stupid to totally discard every other scene (especially the magic ones), it’s explained in Chiru so I won’t say more. LOL of course. Sober Battler means less confusion XD And I didnt mean to discard them, I just meant that u could take them either way, whether its the magic side or the human side Was just pointing out that some things arent always as they appear For example: (dont click if you havent finished the higurashi anime) Maybe its the same with Umineko, where a person believed in magic so much or believed a human did it so much that thats the way it played out in their minds, which is how we saw it. My brain hurts now. o.o |
-renn-Dec 25, 2009 3:44 AM
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Lith said: this is true, with both higurashi and umineko you can never take anything at face value, it gets confusing sometimes :3 Indeed =P |
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| What a fucked up ending. Either way, I think I pretty much guess who Beatrice really is, but it has not been made official even in games, but the hints pretty much point to And I hate the anime version. Anyone that knows where to download the VN in English subs please pm me. I would greatly appreciate it (I HAVE been trying to find it, but somehow luck has evaded me, and I can't seem to find one that my crappy com can download. |
HalRyderDec 25, 2009 6:09 AM
| actually no it doesn't plus all of the moments Beato hits on Battler either drunk or when mocking him would turn very EW plus episode 5 :P |
hirahira said: less red truth = easier to solve, however less red truth also means its harder to find the exact correct answer.RDX said: Well that ending didnt explain much ._., i hope they make another season! They probably will, don't worry. Though it is supposed to be solvable by EP4. But Ryukishi was talking about the VN when he said that not the anime. I really don't think the anime is solvable. I think if anyone is still unable to form a half-decent theory up to this point, he just plainly failed to understand anything. Its useless. Afterall its said from the very beginning people need to think themselves, instead of waiting for answers to be fed into their mouth~ |
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| woah that was fast. I like what I am hearing so far Hoo they even did those red phrases right at the end not bad. *goes to the second MP 3 now* LOL Kinzo XDDD he sounds good XDDDDD |
Darklight0303Dec 25, 2009 7:50 AM
Jaapsneep said: whatever happened to finding a culprit ... There will be a lot of focus on that in EP5 |
HalberdierRetsel said: What a fucked up ending. Either way, I think I pretty much guess who Beatrice really is, but it has not been made official even in games, but the hints pretty much point to And I hate the anime version. Anyone that knows where to download the VN in English subs please pm me. I would greatly appreciate it (I HAVE been trying to find it, but somehow luck has evaded me, and I can't seem to find one that my crappy com can download. I don't know where to download a pirated copy. However, if you want to download just the first game for now (the demo), Witch Hunt has the link to the official demo and the English patch for the demo here: http://witch-hunt.com/stage.html |
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DeathfireD said: Oh what! No way did Ange get shot! I though her magic got rid of the bodyguards. Also I though that the blood in the last episode was just because she broke the rule. Besides she can use magic to put herself away from harm in another dimension.....she is part of the marriage de sorcières.....What...wait.....why.....*head explodes*. They didn't confirm nor deny anything we've been hypothesizing since the beginning >:( damn it! Kinzo being dead before the game started was probably the only thing "true" but even so it wasn't verified in red (which I still have trouble approving as truth). Ange's random blood didn't seem so random to me. She technically died twice assuming you take things for face value. The first time was when she jumped off the building (which we later learn that she was saved due to an over hang to prevent suicide jumpers) and the second time when she gets killed on the island while using "magic" to kill Eva's body guards (which "magic" was her deference). In reality she got shot several times while someone else picked off the body guards. I think the blood tripping all over was just to show that she has indeed dead already, similar to how Jessica was brought back to life for 10 min and then when the time was up blood rushed out all over the place as her face caved in. The only difference being Ange's body magically disappeared. As much as I disliked how they used magic in this mystery series, I still look forward to a second season. I just hope they don't sacrifice mystery and logic over Magic again. |
 In spoiler my anime list for now. |
| In the credits, it said that Ange died in 1998 |
francismeunier said: Oh what! No way did Ange get shot! I though her magic got rid of the bodyguards. Also I though that the blood in the last episode was just because she broke the rule. Besides she can use magic to put herself away from harm in another dimension.....she is part of the marriage de sorcières. Sadly, even though we don't know what exactly happened to Ange in 1998, the end roll for the game does say that she died on Rokkenjima in 1998. Some people think maybe she was shot by Kasumi or her guards before they were killed. I know a few people wondered if maybe Amakusa killed her (nooooooooo). Or maybe something else entirely happened. Even though I love the magic in the series, I'm anti-fantasy for the most part. Ange doesn't use magic to defend herself. I firmly believe that Kasumi and her guards were actually killed by Amakusa with a sniper rifle. Facka said: So it's finished, hoping for more Higurashi related series! It's technically not "When They Cry", but definitely check out Ookami Kakushi, the anime is starting on January 7. It's based on a PSP game that was a collaboration between the author of "When They Cry" and Peach-Pit. The storyline seems like it might be VERY similar to Higurashi (even moreso than Umineko was). I haven't played it because it hasn't been translated by I'm very excited about it. There's a MAL forum for it already if you look. |
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| Ange is confirmed dead in 1998 (End credits of EP4) |
Zantaskan said: Just my two cents, but I thought this series was just all over the map. While I thought the animation was pretty good, and there certainly where some great plot twists and "O Snap" moments, I thought the character, plot consistencies has the same pace like an episode of BoBoBo-Bo-Bo-BoBo or something. After reading some of the comments for this show, it seems the VN makes much more use"tea room" or what I call the actual "game" part, which, in my opinion, is probably one of the most important parts of the show.Does the VN actually make better use of this? There seems to be some really cool logic tricks here, and I think the anime's ADD nature ruined it by including one two minutes every few episodes then cutting to everyone getting killed or magic or whatnot (which I don't mind in the least bit) This is a pretty accurate assessment. There were a lot of things left out of the anime -- some of them should have been left out. A lot of it shouldn't. It's hard to balance dramatic pacing with all of the characterization and information necessary for a mystery this complex, but ultimately I do think they could have done a better job. Anyway, the reason I wanted to respond to this particular post, because yes -- besides some of the logic and deductions and Beato vs. Battler scenes from the Meta!World that were lost in the shuffle in this adaptation, I think one of my favorite parts of the VN that didn't really make it in much were logic strategies/rhetorical deductions, etc, which were often either not mentioned or were just grazed. By that I mean: Devil's Proof, Hempel's Raven, and the metaphorical use of Schrodinger's Cat/the Braun Tubes. Basically, while a lot of the time Ryuukishi's use of these strategies were kind of simplistic, for me while I was reading the VN the first time I felt like they added a lot to the story and helped me understand how the story worked. A theme that I see in a lot of anime-viewers' difficulty with the series is that they just couldn't get into the mindset necessary to make the imaginative leaps required to enjoy the plot. Now, some viewers are just not going to want to do that anyway, because this isn't a story they aren't going to like anyway. But other than that I think this was one of the anime''s biggest failings. By leaving out these things, it's sort of like they gave a board game without any directions. Depending on the difficulty of the game you might figure it out for yourself, but even then you might misinterpret some of the rules or make up wrong deductions about how it should be played. |
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dioptase said: Ange is confirmed dead in 1998 (End credits of EP4) No way! Was not able to see that :/ What was the reason of her death BTW? |
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Gilliene said: dioptase said: Ange is confirmed dead in 1998 (End credits of EP4) No way! Was not able to see that :/ What was the reason of her death BTW? Nobody knows for sure. That's why we wonder about what happened there. |
Lith said: well atleast small bombs got left in :3 This^ |
| Hidden Moonlight 隠された月光 |
Gilliene said: dioptase said: Ange is confirmed dead in 1998 (End credits of EP4) No way! Was not able to see that :/ What was the reason of her death BTW? The cause of her death is unknown, hence all the theories on the Internet. |
moldy_tomato said: Here's fan-made Golden Land and red vs. blue scenes in mp3 format: http://hisagi.sakura.ne.jp/umineko_sp/zenpen.mp3 http://hisagi.sakura.ne.jp/umineko_sp/kouhen.mp3 I keep listening to the second MP3 @,@ it's that good |
June_1983 said: Facka said: So it's finished, hoping for more Higurashi related series! It's technically not "When They Cry", but definitely check out Ookami Kakushi, the anime is starting on January 7. It's based on a PSP game that was a collaboration between the author of "When They Cry" and Peach-Pit. The storyline seems like it might be VERY similar to Higurashi (even moreso than Umineko was). I haven't played it because it hasn't been translated by I'm very excited about it. There's a MAL forum for it already if you look. Don't worry about that, already going to take a look at it regardless. Hope you are right about this being like Higurashi/Umineko. |
In spoiler my anime list for now. |
| Finally this is over. -_- |
| HOLY SHIT GUISE, ANIMU AND GAEMZ R SRS BZNS~~~!!111ONE After reading through this whole thread, I have to say I kinda of want to bash both sides of the argument over their heads. >>;; Anyway, here's my thoughts: The ending felt slightly empty, but I think that's partly because the VN is open-ended and partly because DEEN rushed this last ep so much. The ???? with Bern and Lambda at the end really saved it for me. It didn't necessarily bring closure, but it at least wrapped things up a little more neatly. Overall, I the anime was a pretty good adaption. I just finished the first chapter of the VN (yay free demo!), and as far as I can remember, that was well adapted in the anime. Obviously, I won't know how the rest is as a adaption until I get around to purchasing the rest of the game. For the most part, I feel like this was on par with Higurashi, but since the ending brought it down a little I think I'll have to give it a 7.8/10 instead of an 8. Really enjoyable as an anime, and I look forward to delving more deeply into the story with the VN. :) SMALL BOMBS! EDIT: Oh, and one more thing. I know lots of people were mad they left out Bern and Lambda's troll faces, but I think they still got the point accross. I know that personally, my reaction (not having read this part of the VN) was 'Oh, shi-- Bitches be trolling!! :O" So I think the anime-only people will still be able to get that Bern and Lambda are more devious than they appear. |
mageletDec 25, 2009 11:24 AM
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magelet said: HOLY SHIT GUISE, ANIMU AND GAEMZ R SRS BZNS~~~!!111ONE After reading through this whole thread, I have to say I kinda of want to bash both sides of the argument over their heads. >>;; Anyway, here's my thoughts: The ending felt slightly empty, but I think that's partly because the VN is open-ended and partly because DEEN rushed this last ep so much. The ???? with Bern and Lambda at the end really saved it for me. It didn't necessarily bring closure, but it at least wrapped things up a little more neatly. Overall, I the anime was a pretty good adaption. I just finished the first chapter of the VN (yay free demo!), and as far as I can remember, that was well adapted in the anime. Obviously, I won't know how the rest is as a adaption until I get around to purchasing the rest of the game. For the most part, I feel like this was on par with Higurashi, but since the ending brought it down a little I think I'll have to give it a 7.8/10 instead of an 8. Really enjoyable as an anime, and I look forward to delving more deeply into the story with the VN. :) SMALL BOMBS! EDIT: Oh, and one more thing. I know lots of people were mad they left out Bern and Lambda's troll faces, but I think they still got the point accross. I know that personally, my reaction (not having read this part of the VN) was 'Oh, shi-- Bitches be trolling!! :O" So I think the anime-only people will still be able to get that Bern and Lambda are more devious than they appear. They alrdy seem more devious anyway, even if u look at it from an anime only perspective, b/c look what happened with Virgilia, she was all helping Battler out but she actually was working w/ Beato the whole time the only good witches would have to be Maria and Ange, even tho Maria's kinda psycho From the moment they introduced Bern in the anime, i figured something "wasnt quite right" with her, and the same with Lambda |
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| Bernkastel did say she was the cruelest witch in the world when she was introduced so her being evil shouldn't be surprising. |
| Episode 5 prologue and OP It'll answer some questions people may have about the end of EP4 but it'll make the wait harder for the continuation ahaha.wav |
| Hmm ... I was wondering, would it be okay/appropriate to make a thread for EP 5/Chiru in this forum? The forum is for the anime and for EP 1-4, but since the Chiru translation is going to be released very soon and whether there will be a second season of the anime released is still up in the air, maybe people would like to discuss it in here. I'm frankly kind of curious if there might be some anime watchers who might decide to try playing EP 5 right after finishing the anime, too. |
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| So, after half a year, they have finally managed to make a great episode. Overall, 8/10. Waiting for Chiru. |
| Ugh, what have DEEN done... Even as an stand-alone project this anime isn't good at all. They removed so many important and good scenes (like the BeatoxBattler hug..Y_Y) and it was so emotionless! I really hope they won't animate Chiru, though I wouldn't mind if another studio took on that job - or even made an alternative adaption! I think I'll stick to reading the VN and the Manga, pretending there never was an adaption at all. |
June_1983 said: Hmm ... I was wondering, would it be okay/appropriate to make a thread for EP 5/Chiru in this forum? The forum is for the anime and for EP 1-4, but since the Chiru translation is going to be released very soon and whether there will be a second season of the anime released is still up in the air, maybe people would like to discuss it in here. I'm frankly kind of curious if there might be some anime watchers who might decide to try playing EP 5 right after finishing the anime, too. I'm planning to play Chiru since DEEN might not animate it. |
MarthX said: Episode 5 prologue and OP Lol I posted that in page 9. I really hope we get the translation before we get EP6 spoilers, we're spoiled enough already. Furude Rika is not Bernkastel. But I hope Oyashiro-sama appears and gives her a beating. |
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xcrusnikx said: dioptase said: DeathfireD said: ....What...wait.....why.....*head explodes*. They didn't confirm nor deny anything we've been hypothesizing since the beginning >:( damn it! Kinzo being dead before the game started was probably the only thing "true" but even so it wasn't verified in red (which I still have trouble approving as truth). Kinzo’s death is confirmed in red in the VN. I won't spoil Chiru, but here's a little food for thought: Kinzo being dead before (way before) the familly conference means that EVERYONE who claimed to have talked to him is lying. - Natsuhi and the "one-winged eagle is in your heart” scene in EP1? It never happened. - Rosa testifying that Shannon and Genji were with her and Kinzo in his study the whole time during Jessica’s murder in EP2? Another lie. And the list goes on. You're quite right. The thing you have to realize with both Higurashi and Umineko is that what you see may not be true. Just because it was shown in a certain way doesn't mean it happened that way. I know, that's why I've been saying since episode 12 that the only things we can trust are the things Battler sees with his own eyes when he's alive. Everything else is just fluff to push us away from the truth. You can narrow down the suspects simply by watching who's with battler when people get killed. If you do it right, it narrows it down to just a few people ;). I suppose now if you take into account all the people that lied, it should narrow it down even more. The hard part is determining if there was one or more killers. I still believe there is more then one involved but I could be wrong. PS. Did anyone else expect Beato to say "Battler....I am your mother" in a Darth Vader voice after she asked him "Who am I?" lol? |
^)^ DeathfireD ^)^ Anime Alliance P2P Network *OPEN FOR NEW MEMBERS* |
| I really loved this episode. I didn't really come up with similar solutions as Battler (Anime-Only watcher, mind you) so it was like "I kinda thought that" and "Wtf, I never thought of that AT ALL." but at the very end with the - Anyways, good episode, good series, and hoping for Chiru to be animated once all the episodes are out. :) |
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moldy_tomato said: I expect the translation patch to be released within the next 48 hours. http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=2834855&postcount=3124 Yeah, it's really exciting. :D Well ... in that case I guess I'll make the thread? |
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