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| Literally the funniest shit Ive seen in awhile. "Yo can you get all the angels together?" "Sure" "Wait a second..." "Ahh shit he killed himself" Interesting take on the chicken or the egg paradox. They literally need to observe each other to continue existing probably has some quantum entanglement schrodinger cat super position bullshit behind it. I suppose if God wasnt dying and humanity became extinct, it and the angels would perish as well. |
| I'm very conflicted about this ending as well - but here are a few things I think are worth mentioning. People have mentioned a lot that the ending (everyone dies) made the storyline itself anti-climactic, and almost meaningless. So, just because someone dies, does it mean their life has no meaning? The story is filled with motives about death and suicide, and this definitely looks like one of them. To me, the series holds a very clear message - Don't kill yourself, with three reasonings. The first - happiness is always achievable and we must peruse it. I have depression myself but I fight for things to get better, and I'm certain they will (and they have!) Sometimes it's just around the corner, and sometimes farther away - but we must keep walking. The second - Taking your own life would affect so much more than yourself. Honestly, this isn't one of my favorites. I feel like when a person is struggling asking them to consider other's feelings is quite selfish, but if that's what makes them stay here? Totally worth it. I'm certain that some viewers must have resonated with that, so that's a win. This is stressed with Mirai asking the god candidate who eventually becomes god (forgot his name) to not kill himself, but also later - when he does. He's certain that god has no reason staying alive. Humanity does not need him, and he wasn't interested in being alive from the start - but when he perishes the entire world does so with him. The third - Even if death will come eventually, there's no reason not to do our absolute best while we're still here and enjoy it. This brings me back to where I started off this comment - sure. Everyone dies at the end. Does it make the present any less valuable? Eventually, everything's gonna fade away. the universe itself will fade into nothingness and no memory of me, you, or anything else will exist. Does it mean us being here right now is any less meaningful? No. It clearly doesn't. Mirai said that to him, the meaning of life is to peruse happiness. I love that message. |
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| This is the second series I have seen pull this. And the other one had far better writing than this, and still didn't manage to pull it off. I can handle endings that are bleak, or not all 'happy and good' but this is such a slap in the face. Sure, Saki and Mirai got a good ending, but if the whole point was the overwhelming odds of the varying ways humans interact with and subjugate one another, then this is an insult to all those who suffer. Episode 23 had me at a solid 5; for all its flaws, it came together at the end. But this dropped to a 4. Fucking hell. And if the idea was that Nasse had survived before God, she should not have disappeared. This was just such a letdown. |
JustOscar said: You are just saying what I think every scientist is contradict itself. the reality of emotions and developing mind never had a scientist base only speculations without real evidence. and that's something even scientists today cannot explain, unless you believe in something "beyond".I think Yoneda is interesting because in him there becomes conspicuous one of the contradictions of extreme introversion. His fear of others shows that for him they are too real, but unconsciously he also holds the opposite idea: that he is the only thing that exists. In his metaphysical views, this manifests itself both as a conscious materialism/physicalism and as an unconscious solipsistic idealism. In a previous episode he says (I am trusting a translation, but I doubt the original is substantially different): "Human beings are physical objects. It's likely that we just become nothing when our bodies turn to dust, but that hasn't been proven" He thinks that the fact that we are physical objects (materialism) makes it likely that we become nothing after death. He doesn't notice that that conclusion doesn't come from his materialism, but from his unconscious idealism. He is in fact contradicting himself. If we are nothing more than our bodies and our bodies become dust (matter/energy), then the only way we can maintain that we become nothing is by maintaining that matter and energy are nothing; that is, by rejecting materialism. What he seems to be trying to say is that it is likely (his) consciousness is the only thing that exists, and therefore if (his) consciouness were to dissappear, there would be nothing. He doesn't notice his idealism: he is mixing consciousness with existence and "dust" with nothingness. I think it's a common fallacy. It's an argument made by mixing two premises: a) consciousness is the body or dependent on it, and b) the body is actually nothing. The first is conscious, the second unconscious. Not everyone that holds this view is a case of extreme introversion, but I think Yoneda's is. He said he wanted to die to discover what is there after death, so obviously that question haunted him. I think people who muse about death are often solipsists in their heart of hearts. Even if the presence of others is for them so real as to cause panic, at the same time they cannot believe in a reality beyond themselves. People who feel one with the world and with others don't worry about death that much. At the end of the day, everything Yoneda did had the goal of breaking his isolation. (it's remind me the other day when i refuted darwin's theory with today's DNA discoveries) you are also reading too much on yoneda. ohba isn't scientist or something like that. his entire premise for yoneda is him being "smart" character for entertainment. (you maybe want to read my comments on the manga) |
JustOscar said: i think you understood fine what ohba wanted here. but that's why you can't inserting yoneda's character something he doesn't. yoneda is so supposed to be a "smart" guy who won some prize, and so everyone in the world of PE believes he's saying the true. while he's a sample of scientist who thinks that "if something doesn't proved scientistic, it's not real". and that's where ohba came with yoneda character.User-Name said: You are just saying what I think every scientist is contradict itself. the reality of emotions and developing mind never had a scientist base only speculations without real evidence. and that's something even scientists today cannot explain, unless you believe in something "beyond". (it's remind me the other day when i refuted darwin's theory with today's DNA discoveries) you are also reading too much on yoneda. ohba isn't scientist or something like that. his entire premise for yoneda is him being "smart" character for entertainment. (you maybe want to read my comments on the manga) I am not saying every scientist contradicts themself. My interest is psychological rather than metaphysical. I am interested in Yoneda's metaphysical views because I am interested in him as a person. I just saw a contradiction* in a man with good reasoning skills. I think the contradiction ins't due to his intellectual inability, but to psychological reasons. Maybe I am reading too much, but I don't think we must limit ourselves to what the author wanted to do. We can see in a work or a character things that the author didn't see. *I think the contradiction can be solved if Yoneda is actually a dualist (matter and form) rather than a materialist (only matter). In other words, if a person is not only the matter that forms their body, but also the form itself. Even if after death the matter that formed the body still exists and has merely entered new forms, the concrete combination of matter and form has disappeared, and therefore the person would become nothing. But since form is constantly changing, I don't see how someone could talk about a person persisting in time and only after death becoming nothing. Rather, a person would become nothing at every instant. Anyway, I don't think Yoneda is a dualist. (as a religious man, it's hard for me to talk about matter without soul. present of a god is more obvious than unobvious. and i'm not even gonna talk about the stupid acclaim that the world became randomly.) |
| It's better watch Attack on Titan eps Perfect Game where Erwin said life is meaningless when you died from rocks. |
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| for those who interested what was deleted by this post in Platinum End Theory: Who Is God And Those Mysterious Beings In The Finale Explained: The DISCLAIMER: This theory will go over the entire story of Platinum End, so obvious spoilers ahead. Just a heads up, this theory is posted at the time that only a few episodes of the anime have been released. Depending on how much the anime stays like the manga, details may end up changing. Therefore, the entire theory will be based solely on the manga. I will also leave snippets of the manga with the highlighted text to support my claim. Please be sure to read those as it will help this theory make sense. This theory is completely my own original thoughts. If anyone shares this, please be sure to credit me, Muphenz. Thanks! Hello, my fellow Platinum End fans! If you’re like me, the ending completely caught me off guard and left my head-scratching. Do not worry! I’ve overanalyzed everything and made a theory to possibly explain who god and those beings at the end of the story are, so you don’t have to. Those beings at the end of the manga, chapter 58, are *drum roll*…humans of the future who have achieved many scientific advancements who existed well before the story of Platinum End takes place and are simulating their own world with fake humans, fake angels, and a fake god. Why are the real humans running this simulation? Simply put, they’re suicidal and no amount of therapy is going to help with that. Why are they wanting to die? In the future, it is predicted by Gaku Yoneda that within 500 years, humans will achieve immortality. Once they achieve immortality, they will eventually master time and space and will be able to do things like teleport, time travel, see the future, etc. And once humans achieve immortality and are able to know all of the future, they will discover that the future cannot be changed according to Dr. Yoneda. Just like Dr. Yoneda’s prediction, the real humans are wanting to die which is why it’s stated by one of the real humans how annoying it is that there is no death. >Whatever the process was that made the real humans immortal, it seems that it cannot be reversed to restore one’s mortality. Although it’s not stated how humans will achieve immortality and allow them to control time and space, this will somehow cause humanity’s apocalypse as well, destroying the original Earth. What makes these creatures more human-like than god-like is that they admit they were born on another planet, most likely the original Earth. They are also aware that they too were created by something that is above them. How do we know Dr. Yoneda’s predictions are right? It was stated by Shuji Nakaumi that his past predictions came true. One thing to understand about science is that it’s extremely good at accurately predicting things. <li>Example 1: With Issac Newton’s law of motion, scientists can predict the position of an object at any specific time, past, present, or future.</li> <li>Example 2: In the 1840s, Fitzner astronomer Urbain Le Verrier was analyzing the orbit pathway of Mercury and found that it is changing very slowly over time. With technology limited at that time, it was hard to provide proof. In 1915, the famous German physicist, Albert Einstein was able to calculate the influence of the curved space in Mercury’s orbit. That is 75 years later that science proved its prediction was right. Although science cannot tell future events like a psychic will attempt to, I believe this is what the author was using to help advance the plot for the ending. The real humans already know the future and they’re aware that no matter what they try, death is not a part of that. If they cannot do it, someone else can. That is when these simulations come in. The real humans will create simulated humans. In one of the simulations, the story of Platinum End takes place. This would not be on a computer. This process would involve terraforming an entire planet to support carbon-based life. The planet that the simulated humans live on will be similar to the original Earth as well as the history and advancement of science will be similar to the real humans. As the simulated human’s society progresses, like in Platinum End, they would eventually learn how to become immortal and learn how to control space-time which would lead to them wanting to die just like the real humans. But unlike the real humans, the simulated ones may actually achieve a way to kill themselves once they obtain immortality that the real humans could use. But as we already know stated by the real humans, this specific simulation was a failure. Nothing was created that was capable of killing them. Thus, the real humans will move on to a new simulation. Notice right after all of the humans disappear when the fake god kills himself, the buildings are slowly crumbling away since no one is here to maintain them. According to World Building, it would take an average of 250 years for a building to start to break apart since materials like wood and plastic would be destroyed by the environment if not maintained. Metal would be expanding and no longer able to keep the building's structure in place. This would cause things like windows to fall off and shatter. So after a few hundred years, the real humans return to the planet after the simulated humans disappeared due to the fake god’s suicide. It’s possible that during this time they’re running other simulations on other planets and returned when this simulation was completed. Since the real humans have achieved master over space-time, teleporting to anywhere in the universe would not be out of the question. Since they cannot die, the amount of time it would take for the real humans to travel anywhere in the universe is irrelevant as well. Even though Gaku Yoneda’s predictions about the simulated humanity’s end were wrong, he was technically right. It did come true for the real humans. If Shuji Nakaumi, as the fake god, did not kill himself and wipe out all of the fake humans, they would of most likely learned how to cheat death and to control space-time in the future. Gaku was wrong about the fake god being a product of human belief in order to live. He even admits that the composition of the fake god was wrong. If the fake god required human belief to live, then Shuji would not have erased the memories of those who were not god candidates as it would have affected the fake god's existence if fewer people believed in him. There is one thing that begs the question. Why is a fake god needed to run these simulations? Why do the simulated humans have souls? Why not just create the simulated humans and leave them to figure out how to create an immortal killing machine without the process of a false god? This is because God and souls are actually real and are necessary for life to exist. To clarify, the “God” that Shuji Nakaumi was transmuted into is not the true God that I’m referring to. I’m referring to the first cause of everything, a self-aware creator, a deistic God who existed before time and space who created the universe and does not intervene in its creation. This means no miracles, prophecy, answering prayers, divine revelation, etc. Everything in the universe is governed by physics and these laws cannot be broken. The real humans who are running the simulations are aware that they are a creation made from a creator. However, since a deistic God does not interfere in the universe, the real humans cannot know of him, at least while they are still alive. Considering the real humans can control space-time, I can say for certain at one point, at least one person went to the very beginning of time and saw something that would be evidence of an intelligent designer creating the universe. When the real humans are conversing with each other at the finale, one human suggests identifying what created them and the second one replies that seeking their creator will be a waste of time. If a deistic God won’t intervene in its creation, the real humans would be wasting time by attempting to contact him. Even though they can control space-time, if the creator exists outside of reality, they would not be able to reach this entity. Focusing on figuring out who created them means that time is wasted if they're not figuring out how to die which is why it would take them further away from death. Just as the simulated humans have souls, the real humans also have souls. At some point, the real humans discovered the soul. They are aware that this is needed for life to be sentient. The discovery of the soul could have played a key part in the real humans achieving immortality. The fake god is engineered by the real humans to create souls so that life can be sentient, mimic the universe's deistic God by allowing the simulation to run with no interference, and act as a mod to keep an eye on life with the red and white arrows. The celestial realm was created so the fake god would not be a part of the simulated world. Even though time moves differently in the celestial realm, it is the closest thing that the real humans can engineer to simulate a deist God that is separated from its creation. This fake god does not have the powers of a supreme being. The fake god does not know everything, is not everywhere at once, and does not display any sort of omnipotent ability. There is a lot of things that the fake god admits to not knowing, such as who created him, why are souls preserved, and how long does the merging process take. Although we do see the fake god have the ability to observe humanity, I would say that this is the equivalent of having admin privileges to watch humanity live-streamed on YouTube. The fake god is aware that he is created by someone. The fake god noticed that there are things that had already been created that he was not a part of just by observing everything in the universe. Although he seems to not understand what created him. He even acknowledges the idea that humanity could have created him. All the simulated souls come from the fake god. This is done through a process of emanation, which means to flow from. In the Abrahamic religions, specifically Gnosticism, Jewish Mysticism, and certain sectors of Protestantism, instead of your typical creator being separate from its creation, everything is a spontaneous outflow from God. As pieces of God emanate from him, it becomes less divine, but these pieces will eventually become an individual soul that forms into human spirits, angels, demons, as well as other things that come into reality such as heaven, hell, and the world of the living. Eventually, everything that came from God, will return back to the creator. (If you’re still confused on what emanation is, I would do more research before continuing to read as this will play a key role in understanding who the fake god is.) Emanation is how the fake god created the simulated human and their soul, the fake angels, and the celestial realm. The fake god took a piece of himself and used it to create life. Since everything emanates from the fake god is connected to him, as he is dying, most of the angels are dying too. Due to this connection, when the fake god killed himself, everything that was tied to the fake god disappeared. When the simulated human beings die, the soul goes to the celestial realm. This is the returning aspect of emanation. The souls that came from the fake god are returning back to him. You always see all angels, regardless of rank, having the task of carrying the souls to the celestial realm. It seems that the main purpose of the angels is to help with the return part of the emanation process. It appears that there is a certain order to the flow of emanation. The newest creations emanate from the fake god. Kids will be the first in the line for the emanate process and their parents will be behind them. This is why when the fake god committed suicide, the kids were the first ones to disappear, then the adults. All things that emanate from the fake god are returning to the original source in reverse order when the fake god takes his own life. When the fake god merges with a human, this appears to go against the set pattern of the emanation process by breaking the order in which the emanence flows. This is why when Shuji merged with the fake god, it felt like there was something foreign in the fake god's body similar to how an infected person's body acts when the immune system detects foreign bacteria or a virus. The only way to get around it is by the fake god merging with a simulated human and having the fake god take over the new body when the fusion is completed. It is stated by the fake god that it is nothing more than humanity's assumption that God cannot die. This may be true for the deistic God, but not for a fake god. It is already known that the real humans achieved immortality. Although the fake god could have been engineered to be immortal, that would just create another being who would eventually want to die. The fake god was designed to live a long life, compared to humans, that could be extended through the process of merging with one of its emanated counterparts until the simulation was completed. This has been done throughout time in the form of the god choosing process. The fake god confirmed to Shuji that his purpose was to create life. Professor Yoneda confirmed that the fake god was created by human imagination and that its purpose was to end life. On the surface, this may seem like a contradiction. But both of them are right. The fake god’s purpose was to create the simulated humans. God is metaphorically a creation of human imagination. It was not by the simulated human’s imagination as stated by Yoneda, but it was designed and engineered by the minds of the real humans. Since the purpose of the simulation is for the fake humans to achieve immortality and figure out how to reverse it, you can say that the fake god is a part of that process of killing humanity. Right as all of the humans are disappearing, Dr. Yoneda realizes that the composition that makes up the creature is based on a science that the simulated humans have not discovered yet. The composition of the fake god is Aether. In medieval times, a common study among scholars is alchemy, which can be best described as the forerunner for modern-day chemistry mixed with the pseudoscience of metaphysics. According to Charles Gillispie, a historian at Princeton University, in his book, The Edge of Objectivity, An Essay in the History of Scientific Ideas, Aether is the fifth element, along with earth, wind, fire, and water, that are the basic building blocks of the universe. During medieval times, Aether is the substance that is believed to connect the physical world to the spiritual one. It was even a common belief that the Abrahamic God was surrounded by Aether and that all of the angels, demons, and souls that dwelled in the afterlife breathed it in as humans breathed in the air. According to Jakob Bernoulli, a mathematician from the 1600s, believed that Aether is what allowed souls to interact with their human bodies. All of these characteristics of Aether match the composition of the fake god. Aether is what allows life to become sentient, connecting all of the simulated humans back to the fake god from the physical world to the celestial realm. It seems at some point, the real humans discover this element. This discovery most likely led to the discovery of the soul. Using this element, the real humans used Aether to construct the fake god needed for the simulations. Everything that is a part of the simulation, the fake god, angels, the soul, the arrows, is made up of this element. The red arrow is what allows the god candidates to make other humans fall in love with them so much that the person who is under the influence of the arrow will do literally anything the person who is in control wants, even die for them. The white arrow has the ability to kill any life while all inanimate objects are unaffected. These were limits placed on the arrows by the fake god. According to Ogaro, the fake god can use the full power of the arrows at will. The red arrow is more than just making someone fall in love. The arrow does this by taking away their free will. The god candidates were limited to using the arrow on 14 people at once for a period of up to 33 days. With the fake god able to use the full power of the red arrow, he can enslave any or all simulated humans with a snap of his finger for as long as he desired. The red arrow also played a role in creating the first simulated life as well. The fake god stated that if life was left alone, it would multiply. The desire of falling in love and wanting to procreate was implanted by the red arrow when life was created. The white arrow is the opposite of the red arrow. This arrow can kill life instantly. The limit that was placed on this arrow is that only one white arrow can be shot at a time. Just like the red arrow, this arrow has a maximum range of 31.6 meters. When cycling the white arrow, there is a cool down period of 0.3 seconds. If these limiters are removed, the fake god can kill all humans with the white arrows with virtually no limit on distance, any number of arrows can be used simultaneously, and there would be no mandatory cool down period. The creation of the simulated humans involves two key ingredients. The first is the soul which comes from the fake god. The second is a physical body for the soul to be attached to. The real humans asked if it was worth planting another seed and another god as those are two separate things. The making of another god is obviously the fake god. But what is the seed? The seed is what makes the physical embodiment of all plants and animals that all emanence is attached to. I.E., souls attached to bodies. According to the fake god, before he created life on the fake Earth, there was some sort of micro-organism. This seed would be that micro-organism, specifically carbon-based bacteria that is capable of evolution. Around 3 billion years ago, the first life on Earth was bacteria. There are two types of bacteria, a classification of anaerobic bacteria that ate other organic compounds and simple sugars to survive. The other kind is autotrophs bacteria which is capable of self-feeding. Anaerobic bacteria would evolve into modern-day animals. Autotroph bacteria would evolve into modern-day plants that still have the ability to self-feed through a process of photosynthesis. It is possible to send bacteria through space. According to a 2020 study published in the Journal of Frontiers in Microbiology, bacteria were able to survive in space for three years. If the real humans were able to transport the seed through space in less than 3 years, it could easily survive. Considering they achieved immortality, it is within reason to think this would be a piece of cake for them. At some point, part of the anaerobic bacteria would come in contact with the fake god, who was on the fake Earth at that time to make life, recognized the fake god as food, and attempted to feed off of him to survive. The bacteria that fed off the fake god would eventually evolve into Nasse. The bacteria that did not feed off of the fake god would evolve into more complex forms of life on the fake Earth. Since Nasse was accidentally created from this event, it most likely means that she is the first angel that the fake god created. This means that she could serve as inspiration for the fake god to create angels for the celestial realm. The angels don't seem to share any ability to reproduce with each other. There is never any mention of any family heritage. It means that all of the angels were created around the same time. Since Nasse is the only angel that came from the seed/bacteria, her biological makeup differs from all the other angels. While the majority of her is angel, part of the genetic makeup is similar to carbon-based life. Although I would not say Nasse is an angel-human hybrid, she could be considered a type of Nephilim. Due to this biological difference, Nasse is the only angel that can interfere in both the physical world and the celestial realm.  Much research has shown that facial expressions are innate among all animals, not just humans. The same animals that display facial expressions when expressing emotions, lying, determination, etc. use similar muscles in the face as humans do. For example, a Psychologist, Paul Ekman, studied facial expression from hours of film and ventured on to multiple isolated tribes who have very little contact with modern society. He showed them pictures of facial expressions and asked them to interpret them. These people were able to match facial expressions and their meaning with high accuracy. This is one of the many studies that show facial expressions are genetic. Even though Nasse is single-minded, she is able to understand facial expressions due to her biological relationship with the simulated life on the fake Earth. But hey, this is just a theory. deleted post by murphez. |
| I really just hated this whole thing, sorry. Candidates agreeing on suicidal kid becoming the new god, when he was about to kill people just a few minutes before, and was pretty much passionate about taking lives of other people who also were on the verge of suicide?? I absolutely couldn't comprehend why they'd just say yes to this, makes literally no sense. I honestly thought this would have Mirai Nikki kind of ending While I didn't predict how this show would end, it doesn't mean it's not just horseshit. In the end MC just lived, maybe even happily, but him not being mad about everyone disappearing and world ending because he and Saki had nice 6 years together?? What the hell, people are selfish, anyone would be crazy angry this was happening to them, or even more so, their significant other!! Like I know at this moment he wasn't able to do anything, but even his emotion didn't feel human at all. The worst protagonist I've seen in a while. There's also Nasse, her backstory also doesn't go anywhere... She's a special being, we learn that at the end, but who cares why, she's disappearing just like all the other angels. Makes no difference. You know what, I probably wouldn't even hate the ending that much, I can imagine standing behind the idea of it in case it was well made... but since I hated pretty much everything else about it, I just didn't care at all. It's SO hard for me to believe Ohba created the story with such flat characters, full of plotholes, and just not fun at all! 4/10 |
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