who is more the cause the fans or the anime industry when it comes to sexualization of characters?
the fans is more the cause
47.4%
136
the creators or the anime industry is more the cause
29.6%
85
i do not know
23.0%
66
287 votes
deg said: FurySlasher said: I will use this as a chance to apply my economics knowledge and teach others @Theanimecow ππ. The evolution of consumers’ tastes and preferences has caused a shift of demand to the right in a supply-demand diagram (increase in demand) for fanservice and sexualisation of females. Firms (or in this case studios), use this as a profit incentive and therefore put more of their resources into producing this type of anime - which would be a shift of supply to the right in a supply-demand diagram (increase in supply). Also, the demand for this type of anime is elastic, so if you changed the genre, there would be a huge fall in demand, resulting in a big decrease in revenue. Overall, consumers’ tastes has a knock on affect on the producers and the producers are just trying to make money by any means necessary so the consumers are to blame. However the producers are also at fault as they could be allocating their resources to a potentially more successful cause, like a different genre. A lotta waffle, I know. Would’ve tried to come up with a more detailed explanation but don’t have the time nor willpower. Adiós mis estudiantes! you are also forgetting the role of government and its regulation power, we are not in a pure free market Haha, already picked a flaw out, I’m impressed. However in this case there doesn’t seem to be much government intervention, at least in Japan. |
FurySlasher said: deg said: you are also forgetting the role of government and its regulation power, we are not in a pure free market Haha, already picked a flaw out, I’m impressed. However in this case there doesn’t seem to be much government intervention, at least in Japan. This is the country that censors porn so I wouldn't say that. |
deg said: Refuse? That implies somebody had the right to give them orders. Sovereign nations have the right to torture people to death and hunt whales. Of course they also have the right to produce lolicon anime. Your country then is free to ban their import. That is how the world works.FurySlasher said: Haha, already picked a flaw out, I’m impressed. However in this case there doesn’t seem to be much government intervention, at least in Japan. ye japan refuse to ban lolicon content for example afaik |
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| oh here we go again. Do you people ever stop? Go back to twitter. |
deg said: What part of saying something which is not part of reality is "loose"? It's flat out as useful as discussing a ban of unicorns. Japan does produce lolicon anime because they can. Neither the US of A nor Twitter have any say in that. If the moon was made of blue cheese Twitter could tell sovereign nations what to do. But until then, it's safe to ignore them.inim said: Refuse? That implies somebody had the right to give them orders. Sovereign nations have the right to torture people to death and hunt whales. Of course they also have the right to produce lolicon anime. Your country then is free to ban their import. That is how the world works. well youre more talking in a more strict or technical manner for sure while im in a loose sense |
inimJan 18, 2022 1:39 PM
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| You can thank capitalism for sexy anime because it sells. Dudes like to watch cute girls be sexy. There is nothing wrong with that. Get over it. komic said: oh here we go again. Do you people ever stop? Go back to twitter. Amen. |
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| There is no supply for the things that are not in demand, so fans are to blame the most anime industry is just doing what is most profitable for them, that doesn't make it the right thing to do though I'm against it |
CammellJan 19, 2022 12:51 PM
deg said: That UN motion was rejected 2 years ago by the USA, all EU member states, Japan and many other countries. It was adopted by Canada and Australia. Just like I said: Japan is free to produce anything they want, and your country is free to make the import illegal. That's it, and citing an outdated 2019 article doesn't change reality in 2022.inim said: What part of saying something which is not part of reality is "loose"? It's flat out as useful as to talk about banning unicorns. Japan does produce lolicon anime because they can. Neither the US of A nor Twitter have any say in that. If the moon was made of blue cheese Twitter could tell sovereign nations what to do. But until then, it's safe to ignore. New UN Guidelines Recommend Banning Sexual Loli Material in Anime, Manga https://comicbook.com/anime/news/manga-ban-united-nations-loli-content-minors-passes/ they are being told to do so though thats what i meant by they refuse |
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deg said: inim said: What part of saying something which is not part of reality is "loose"? It's flat out as useful as to talk about banning unicorns. Japan does produce lolicon anime because they can. Neither the US of A nor Twitter have any say in that. If the moon was made of blue cheese Twitter could tell sovereign nations what to do. But until then, it's safe to ignore. New UN Guidelines Recommend Banning Sexual Loli Material in Anime, Manga https://comicbook.com/anime/news/manga-ban-united-nations-loli-content-minors-passes/ they are being told to do so though thats what i meant by they refuse Yeah the UN the organization that so many people take so seriously lol. This is the same organization that has tons of sexual assault cases and well known pedos in their organization. They are not being told to do anything by anyone. The UN is just a bunch of idiots talking with an oligarchy of power in the Security Council by the most powerful nations in the world. The only reason it didn't go the way of the League of Nations was nuclear weapons. It has just as much teeth. The UN can say whatever if the nation in question doesn't care it means literally nothing unless someone with actual force threatens sanctions or intervention. |
deg said: How precisely is citing outdated and incorrect sources "clarifying"? It's the opposite, you confuse people with invalid sources.inim said: That UN motion was rejected 2 years ago by the USA, all EU member states, Japan and many other countries. It was adopted by Canada and Australia. Just like I said: Japan is free to produce anything they want, and your country is free to make the import illegal. That's it. ye i know im just clarifying things where i came from with that word refuse |
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| The fans, who do you think sexualized Gardevoir? |
 弡倧γ§γ for 弡倧εη£ε― |
| The only problem I could see from sexualization of characters is how unfair it is, we got so many gurls with big boobas but where r the guys with big peepee? |
| Fans. Because they consume what they hate and start complaining instead of just go and consume what they like. |
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EdgyLord666 said: The only problem I could see from sexualization of characters is how unfair it is, we got so many gurls with big boobas but where r the guys with big peepee? Ask Japan to get rid of it's dumb censorship laws and we might get some actually good content. |
Luc36 said: Fans. Because they consume what they hate and start complaining instead of just go and consume what they like. It's more most people don't realize how actually in the minority they can be. Hey I would love more mil dramas in the medium and less Medieval European High fantasy isekai but I know I am in the minority there. I can't get upset when people who enjoy the content I do don't put out enough. You just move onto mediums that do cater to you. There usually is something out there. Most people don't care about whatever controversy is going on in the anime fandom around the content. They are just watching the new big battle shonen, isekai or romcom that has come out and then move on with their lives. We represent a small group of opinions nothing more. |
| Viewers want it so studio delivers. Neither are to blame. |
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deg said: The UN requests nobody to do anything, that's not how democracy works. Any sufficiently large group of people can suggest changes to laws. In the case of the UN "people" are countries, NGOs etc. They may or may not be supported by UN officials in that. And most importantly: no majority is needed, anybody can ask for anything. So far nothing happened. Then comes the discussion and the vote. And there was nothing anywhere near a majority for the motion in all but a handful of member countries.inim said: How precisely is citing outdated and incorrect sources "clarifying"? It's the opposite, you confuse people with invalid sources. i meant the refuse word i used came from that news about the UN requesting countries to ban lolicon content thats about it i understand what you meant by sovereignty of countries It's a common twist used by members of a minority to use the fact "I sued" as a replacement for "and I won the case". The reality is that the motion had not much support and was rejected as attempted censorship by most UN members. |
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deg said: The UN makes no requests. Subsets of their member states do. The UN has no executive powers, no law enforcement, and no influence on national laws. It only is a forum where groups of member states can discuss international treaties. Each sovereign member is free to sign them or not later. inim said: The UN requests nobody to do anything, that's not how democracy works. Any sufficiently large group of people can suggest changes to laws. In the case of the UN "people" are countries, NGOs etc. They may or may not be supported by UN officials in that. And most importantly: no majority is needed, anybody can ask for anything. So far nothing happened. Then comes the discussion and the vote. And there was nothing anywhere near a majority for the motion in all but a handful of member countries. It's a common twist used by members of a minority to use the fact "I sued" as a replacement for "and I won the case". The reality is that the motion had not much support and was rejected as attempted censorship by most UN members. i know so in other words Japan refuse the request of the UN |
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deg said: Words matter. I'm not too strict here, you are too sloppy with them.inim said: The UN makes no requests. Subsets of their member states do. The UN has no executive powers, no law enforcement, and no influence on national laws. It only is a forum where groups of member states can discuss international treaties. Each sovereign member is free to sign them or not later. well you are too technical and strict with words like i said the news headlines said recommended by UN so ye Japan refuse the recommendation to make it more strict |
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| "blame", trying to make it sound like a bad thing. *sigh* people are hardcore brainwashed these days, deg surely is among them. "homophobia is a mental illness?" right? fuckoff |
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| Definitely the horny ass fandom. If people didn't like it, the anime industry would not put it in the anime. |
the-other-Ghada said: Dear OP, why do you regard sexualization as a bad thing? You mentioned that the initial reason for starting this thread was your frustration an ecchi anime. AN ECCHI ANIME. No offense, but like, honestly, what kind of content did you expect? Generally speaking, as a hetero female, I used to get offended by the ridiculous amount of of female sexualization in this industry, but as I got older I learned to accept it as a given. There is ridiculous sexualization everywhere: in music, in live actions, in commercials. Why? It sells. That's fair. Creators and people at marketing got to eat like the rest of us. Growing up is making these little concessions so now I find the absurdity of this whole business almost amusing (like, who are we to deny these people their little fantasies?). It only irritates me when it's a minor being sexualized or it is ridiculously irrelevant to the plot (I'm looking at you One Piece). I think instead of fighting the fans and the industry, we should focus on supporting the blessed creators who don't rely on fan service to sell their work. Just because something is common doesn't prevent it from being stupid. Fanservice is often just insulting. Like, you didn't think I was paying attention? You think my mind would've drifted away if you didn't throw booba at the screen? It's the directorial equivalent of jingling keys in a toddler's face. If the fanservice isn't servicing the plot (e.g. Kill la Kill, Shimoneta), then the chances of it being an insult rise exponentially. |
 This glorious signature image was created by @Mayumi! I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom: "Anime was always influenced by the West. This is not news. Shoujo is the superior genre primarily aimed at young people. Harem/isekai are lazy genres that refuse any meaningful innovation. There is no 'Golden Age.' There will always be top-shelf anime. You should be watching Carole & Tuesday." |
| Why is there soo many clean skins that watch anime? You know what you signed up for when you watched these shows. |
deg said: like it or not anime is trying to go mainstream so this problem will arise like whats happening now Anime isn't trying to go mainstream. Most creators don't consider overseas fans when producing their content, it just so happens that the western alternatives suck, because they try to pander to mainstream audiences, rather than sticking to their artistic appeal. So more people are turning to anime and manga BECAUSE of it's eccentricities, in comparison to the bland, creatively bankrupt entertainment industry of the west. The fact of the matter is, if you try to appease everyone, you end up with an inferior product, and so we are all better off if Japanese creators don't try to appeal to the types of people who freak out over 2D titties. |
 This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes |
| Probably fans, some of who act like they've never seen cleavage before. |
Bum Bum Dum Dum |
deg said: the-other-Ghada said: Dear OP, why do you regard sexualization as a bad thing? You mentioned that the initial reason for starting this thread was your frustration an ecchi anime. AN ECCHI ANIME. No offense, but like, honestly, what kind of content did you expect? Generally speaking, as a hetero female, I used to get offended by the ridiculous amount of of female sexualization in this industry, but as I got older I learned to accept it as a given. There is ridiculous sexualization everywhere: in music, in live actions, in commercials. Why? It sells. That's fair. Creators and people at marketing got to eat like the rest of us. Growing up is making these little concessions so now I find the absurdity of this whole business almost amusing (like, who are we to deny these people their little fantasies?). It only irritates me when it's a minor being sexualized or it is ridiculously irrelevant to the plot (I'm looking at you One Piece). I think instead of fighting the fans and the industry, we should focus on supporting the blessed creators who don't rely on fan service to sell their work. im actually fine with sexual content in anime but anime as a business is trying to go mainstream and newbies are actually complaining more of even characters that are minors that are sexualize, plus a lot of the anime fandom have minors as an audience too like 18 below ages StarfireDragon said: Anime isn't trying to go mainstream. Most creators don't consider overseas fans when producing their content, it just so happens that the western alternatives suck, because they try to pander to mainstream audiences, rather than sticking to their artistic appeal. So more people are turning to anime and manga BECAUSE of it's eccentricities, in comparison to the bland, creatively bankrupt entertainment industry of the west. The fact of the matter is, if you try to appease everyone, you end up with an inferior product, and so we are all better off if Japanese creators don't try to appeal to the types of people who freak out over 2D titties. true but its starting now though with Dragon Maids character named Ilulu being censored in China for example, its not just the west that is the external profit source of the anime industry its also China and i may add India too since both of those countries have a lot of potential customers and thus profit for them It doesn't really matter if there are potential customers in these regions, because as I've already said, they don't have much interest in appealing to them. I mention the west, because they play a significant part in the overseas viewership. And even with such a massive audience, they still don't try to appeal to their sensibilities. The notion that they could make more money if they watered down their work is irrelevant. They choose to do their own thing regardless, and there's nothing wrong with that. |
This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes |
| It's always interesting to see how a title of a thread is worded. "Blame" is obviously implying responsibility for a fault here. To give you the best answer, you need to go back to post World War II when japan was forced to westernize. Abscessed attitudes about sexualization were purposely being stigmatized and is the route cause of why in my opinion. There was a time when the average Japanese woman use to never wear panties. The naked body was suddenly forced to be shamed by western influences. After decades and decades it's no wonder how perverse the sexual culture is in Japan because basically the people had to believe the naked human body was suddenly evil. If you ask me who is more to blame for the anime industry sexualizing characters, we only need to look at our own western nations being at fault. |
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| oh man, fuck off, go watch marvel movies |
| Well... Fans can always revolt to stop these sexualizations but its just Japanese who dont care about such things. |
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| The concept of 'blame' makes no sense here. You only have 'blame' for things which are bad. Sexualisation is morally neutral, it's a choice, there's nothing objectively good or bad about it. |
| I think it's useless to spend time trying to decide who is most at fault. it's enough to have initiative on both sides, fans should debate about sexualization and expose their opinions against it, and the anime industry (producers, designers, animators, etc) should also talk about this topic. that way, each one will be influencing the other and maybe one day anime characters will be less sexualized and obviously this will have a great impact on society in general |
 fanart credits: @yeetoldy |
| Fans are the reason, but creators are "to blame" since they made the decision its not like someone put a gun to their head lol... but also its understandable they probably do it for more $$$ or to get some work. With the drug thing blame the decision makers- drug pushers- they all consciously took advantage of other people and knew what they were doing. Blaming the users is blaming the victims who are at fault but really the drug dealer is the source of the problem since they escalate the demand into a bigger problem. Because what happens so often here, we all seen it a MILLION TIMES lol: you have a neighborhood where drug sellers move in, then within a few years its wrecked. The demand was there obviously, but the seller ignited the problem with their decision, so remove them even though the demand is always present. Looking at a problem from the perspective of supply/demand, both sides to blame, or chicken/egg etc alone is wasteful thinking imo, look for the escalation point with ALL problems, now you'll get real solutions. Sadly, real solutions which would work, oftentimes, are just not feasible. Not enough time, money, or manpower for them depending on the problem even locally. It's one reason why the war on drugs can't ever be won lol, they been saying this for decades. And a solution for one place and time probably won't work somewhere else due to cultural differences. In America we could also put more into rehabilitation, obviously it would not solve the drug problem on its own, but it would help a lot to minimize the damage since we don't fund that resource to the same degree we do others again work on both sides, even if the pushers are the source of the problem escalating an issue they won't 100% go away. If you could flip a magic switch and end all drug lords, selling, manufacturing, etc the problem would be much more manageable since they're be dramatically less supply, although demand would flood to other kinds of addiction... but still it'd be alot more manageable and less damaging lol. I'd rather deal with smokers and alcoholics then methheads and crackheads any day hahaha |
| I don't care enough to blame it on anyone else. I like tits, boobs, breasts, asses, butts, armpits etc. |
"Nobody could laugh at someone who's trying their hardest" -Machio- |
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