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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- OK this was just crazy! Kinzo is insane even more than before. He kills a many of his relatives with the three siestas including a new one and use this girl called Goldsmith....to make the remaining relatives fall into a black hole to be in a prison? *shocking* Absolutely loved the Rosa torture scene by Maria! Was so good to see how Rosa suffered and got revived to suffer more for how she made Maria suffer through killing Sakutaro. I don't exactly understand how and why the phone in the prison worked but I found myself being angry at the Kinzon massacre scene with censors of his relatives. Looks like Beatrice is back to her evil laugh. This part was so much joy for me payback is so nice for Sakutaro, also liked the arm twisting /breaking and head chopping of Rosa:  Another thing...questions to understand: first is in the spoiler is that really Goldsmith? Thanks to person here she is Gaap so now I know. Does Gaap have something special she can do other than making blackholes to send people some place? Second does the new Siesta have something special that other Siestas don't apart from throwing small like daggers of what the arrows of the other Siestas are made of? |
francismeunierNov 26, 2009 1:22 AM
 In spoiler my anime list for now. |
| It felt really rushed. Why did they waste time showing us a scene we saw in 19? And they skipped the part where Kinzo asked the parents how much their children are worth. That was my favorite part and it was Rudolf's last chance to talk :( 00's voice is perfect. Gaap's voice doesn't match her design at all. She looks so cute but has such deep voice. It's weird. The first twilight was still hilarious though. The meta-world scene seemed too short. I think they should have cut a bit more from the Rosa and Maria scene so they could do more from the Dungeon chapter. The way that did that scene made it pretty clear it was just Maria's dream. And they finally used miragecoordinator and I really liked it but it was too quiet. They did that scene pretty well. Kumasawa and Gohda are so funny. And we get to see more of the cousins this episode. Looks like they cut The next few episodes should be lots of fun. |
hirahira said: It felt really rushed. hirahira said: Why did they waste time showing us a scene we saw in 19? And they skipped the part where Kinzo asked the parents how much their children are worth. That was my favorite part and it was Rudolf's last chance to talk :( Could you put a youtube thing of this part. Would like to see it. hirahira said: 00's voice is perfect. Gaap's voice doesn't match her design at all. She looks so cute but has such deep voice. It's weird. The first twilight was still hilarious though. The meta-world scene seemed too short. Yes the Metaworls scene was short is it more interesting in a youtube version of the VN? hirahira said: I think they should have cut a bit more from the Rosa and Maria scene so they could do more from the Dungeon chapter. The way that did that scene made it pretty clear it was just Maria's dream. And they finally used miragecoordinator and I really liked it but it was too quiet. They did that scene pretty well. Miragecoordinator was amazing at that part. Find it fit pretty nicely! :D So it was a dream after all...too bad it was a nice dream. hirahira said: Also the cut part I would like to see a youtube thing of it to get more information if possible too. Other worlds??? Like which ones?Kumasawa and Gohda are so funny. And we get to see more of the cousins this episode. Looks like they cut |
In spoiler my anime list for now. |
| Gapgapgap's voice made me come~ |
| butts |
| Finally miragecoordinator <3 Good episode, but it really was a bit rushed. I'm really looking forward to the uncut blu-ray version :D @ francismeunier: Kinzo is Goldsmith, that woman is called Gaap. She's a demon like Ronove. And yes, she can do other things than black holes, but they're her main weapon. Siesta 00 is something like a leader I would say. PS. Can't wait to see |
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DanielMors said: Finally miragecoordinator <3 Good episode, but it really was a bit rushed. I'm really looking forward to the uncut blu-ray version :D @ francismeunier: Kinzo is Goldsmith, that woman is called Gaap. She's a demon like Ronove. And yes, she can do other things than black holes, but they're her main weapon. Siesta 00 is something like a leader I would say. PS. Can't wait to see Gaap? Another Demon? Can you give more information like who she serves, where she comes from? Is she in the demon books in 3D world because Ronove is. |
In spoiler my anime list for now. |
francismeunier said: Gaap? Another Demon? Can you give more information like who she serves, where she comes from? Is she in the demon books in 3D world because Ronove is. She was summoned by Goldsmith/Kinzo, so i would say she serves him. What do you mean "demon books in 3D" ? Here are her TIPS: |
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| I'm glad we're done with most of the Ange stuff for now, I never found it particularly interesting. Though it made the episode this week seem even better than usual. |
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DanielMors said: She was summoned by Goldsmith/Kinzo, so i would say she serves him. What do you mean "demon books in 3D" ? I think he was asking if Gaap is a name of real demon like Ronove. And it is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaap |
| Overall the slaughter of the first twilight was intense as it should have been though the deaths were much faster than the novel counterparts. Still that made it look more brutal so I'll give it a passing grade. They cut out Ronove and Lia's reactions when Kinzo mentioned Gaap. Rosa's hand was supposed to break while striking Maria. The change Deen did was unnecessary. FINALLY AT LONG LAST MIRAGECOORDINATOR is used in some shape or form. For that alone I'll give them an above average episode rating. will post more later. |
| First of all, GAPGAPGAPGAPGAPGAPGAPGAPGAPGAP <3333 *cofcof* Anyways, I was hoping much better from the first twilight. I'm kinda disappointed with that. Same with Rosa and Maria's scene. Meh, moving forward... Siesta 00's voice was really good, I loved it. Yet, I'm still kinda down seeing Gaap looking so "cute". |
| I did not expect Gaap to sound like that at all. It isn't bad, but I imagined a way more annoying cackly voice. Oh well... I loved Maria killing Rosa so many times. Bitch got what she deserved. |
| The anime has made me appreciate Siesta 410's character a little more after I saw the screenshots on 2chan earlier. Other than that I really enjoyed the episode with the introduction of both Siesta 00 and Gaap. (As well as their voice actors.) There was a meta-world scene, though until the subs are out I can't tell if the explanation with the corpses of Episode 1 was kept intact. I felt that the emotional impact of Rosa and MARIA's scene was done pretty well. As for the dungeon...it wasn't as dark as the novel suggested it would be without the dim lighting and torture tools. But I guess that wasn't important. A part of me wanted to see what kind of crazy feat Kinzo is capable of doing with interior design. |
hirahira said: DanielMors said: She was summoned by Goldsmith/Kinzo, so i would say she serves him. What do you mean "demon books in 3D" ? I think he was asking if Gaap is a name of real demon like Ronove. And it is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaap Fascinating in one word, it is really something from the occult world and it actually in it. Surprising and informative. Enchant said: The anime has made me appreciate Siesta 410's character a little more after I saw the screenshots on 2chan earlier. That was a creepy part with one of the siestas that I found rather nasty with her expression. PsychFreak said: But like everyone else said, the thing I was most satisfied with is that they used "Mirage Cooridnator", I mean finally. Yes! Mirage Coordinator well used...was it better used than last time they used Mirage Coordinator or was it first time they used it? PsychFreak said: P.S. Lol at DEEN going crazy with Maria "killer loli" faces, I bet they've been waiting to do this for the longest. Anyone on that reminded of that movie Chucky? Saw some of them on the internet and it reminded me just now of Chucky specifically...... GarLogan78 said: ^Big Yes! Sakutaro's revenge by Maria!I loved Maria killing Rosa so many times. Bitch got what she deserved. |
francismeunierNov 25, 2009 6:36 PM
In spoiler my anime list for now. |
Gaap uses portal guns. :D |
moldy_tomatoNov 25, 2009 9:37 PM
DanielMors said: Here are her TIPS: Gaap looks less slutty in the anime. GarLogan78 said: I did not expect Gaap to sound like that at all. It isn't bad, but I imagined a way more annoying cackly voice. Oh well... I loved Maria killing Rosa so many times. Bitch got what she deserved. I think Gaap's voice is pretty good. I didn't expect this either. When she started talking I was like WTF, but then I got used to it and I was like ''OMG, I love you!'' And, hell yeah, Maria killing Rosa was awesome. Rewatched it 3 times. Yes, I'm crazy. D: |
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| That seems pretty brutal after 2 weeks of none-murder episodes.... Anyway, great episode, loved it when the siestas are back with their weird "data link and shoot" process:D And theres a new siesta, though she doesnt seems quite as fun as the first 2 siestas... And the new witch, or demon or whateever she is~ I havent really understood her role in this, but it seems like Kinzo is turning into a goldsmith taking the role of Eva beatrice....I still hope eva beatrice could have some appearance in this arc as well. :-( Well now to the mystery part. 6 sacrifice again (well, ofcourse), but the dead shown seems quite odd this time, unlike previous arcs where couples tend to die together, this time we have natsuhi and rudolf dead while kraus (at least) and kyrie are still alive. Plus the half destroyed faces, it seems like mere traces of fatal wound unlike the intentionally "modified" corpses from arc 1 or 2~ The phone scene suggests quite a few things, I think there are 2 possibilities how it could have happened (under the basic assumption that the children, especially jessica here, are innocent), either 1. Krauss is keeping quiet of the culprits identity out of his own free will (the possibility that natsuhi isnt dead yet, is as well included in this), or 2. krauss is forced to talk as much as he should. (eg gun pointed @ his head etc~) While 2. is possible, 1. seems a lot more interesting cause it shows how krauss really cared about his own daughter (unlike in 2.) and it basically says krauss is either culprit himself or he becomes accomplice full aware of his wife's death. Both really need a big enough reason to do so~ |
vinesageNov 25, 2009 11:49 PM
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vinesage said: The phone scene suggests quite a few things, I think there are 2 possibilities how it could have happened (under the basic assumption that the children, especially jessica here, are innocent), either 1. Krauss is keeping quiet of the culprits identity out of his own free will (the possibility that natsuhi isnt dead yet, is as well included in this), or 2. krauss is forced to talk as much as he should. (eg gun pointed @ his head etc~) While 2. is possible, 1. seems a lot more interesting cause it shows how krauss really cared about his own daughter (unlike in 2.) and it basically says krauss is either culprit himself or he becomes accomplice full aware of his wife's death. Both really need a big enough reason to do so~ Just so you know since your trying to solve this; In the VN the phone was passed to all the people in the jail cell to verify what was happening (so gunpoint theory is more viable). The people who were in the guest house also alternated who held phone. The people in the guest house who talked using the phone were Battler, Jessica, George, Nanjo, Kumasawa, and Gohda. |
Dark_Requiem said: vinesage said: The phone scene suggests quite a few things, I think there are 2 possibilities how it could have happened (under the basic assumption that the children, especially jessica here, are innocent), either 1. Krauss is keeping quiet of the culprits identity out of his own free will (the possibility that natsuhi isnt dead yet, is as well included in this), or 2. krauss is forced to talk as much as he should. (eg gun pointed @ his head etc~) While 2. is possible, 1. seems a lot more interesting cause it shows how krauss really cared about his own daughter (unlike in 2.) and it basically says krauss is either culprit himself or he becomes accomplice full aware of his wife's death. Both really need a big enough reason to do so~ Just so you know since your trying to solve this; In the VN the phone was passed to all the people in the jail cell to verify what was happening (so gunpoint theory is more viable). The people who were in the guest house also alternated who held phone. The people in the guest house who talked using the phone were Battler, Jessica, George, Nanjo, Kumasawa, and Gohda. There is something that bothers me...1. How come there is prison on the Island? 2. Why is the phone working when none are supposed to because of the storm and 3. Gun point? Which gun? I would think more Demon threats. |
In spoiler my anime list for now. |
| ok more feedback time. Loved the Maria revenge scene looked as brutal as it should have even if it felt a bit shorter. I just realized they never animated the part with Sakutaro trying to lead Rosa away from that place before Maria found her. That alone gave the scene more of a purgatory feel rather than a dream like the anime The phone was found a little too quickly but meh it's a small gripe. Overall it's one of the better adapted parts of the novel so it's still good Also Kanon and shanon's talk got cut short since in the novel Shanon and Kanon talk about the previous games as if remembering them |
moldy_tomato said: Ok so why did the culprit leave this phone alone?francismeunier said: It's more likely that the phones didn't work because of the culprit, not the storm....Why is the phone working when none are supposed to because of the storm... |
In spoiler my anime list for now. |
| that phone is in the hidden mansion, Kuwadorian. Only the phones in the main mansion got cut. As for why, well this time there is the matter of the test for inheritance for the kids. |
| Nope Kinzo says it in this episode |
Dark_Requiem said: Thx for the info. Well, that does sound a lot more logical from Battler and jessica's point of view when everyone speaks on the phone in turn. Just so you know since your trying to solve this; In the VN the phone was passed to all the people in the jail cell to verify what was happening (so gunpoint theory is more viable). The people who were in the guest house also alternated who held phone. The people in the guest house who talked using the phone were Battler, Jessica, George, Nanjo, Kumasawa, and Gohda. But doesnt that exactly what makes gunpointing theory less likely? Cause why would the culprit (Kinzo?) want every one of his prisoners to speak on the phone? Ok, he could be one of them and points gun @ others to let everyone speak on the phone to imply that Kinzo is indeed the culprit. What Id like to know is that who from the prison really speaks on the phone? Krauss, Kyrie, Nanjo, Shanon and Kanon all of them? And who speaks the most, Krauss? ps: francismeunier said: 1. is there? or rather, does it matter? 2. exactly, why? how come that particular phone works like in arc2? 3.When someone is describing a murder events involving "cute bunny girls poping out of no where and suddenly starting to kill people using some weird bow-like-weapon", could anyone possibly fail to mention the bunnies and only said old kinzo is going crazy? :D no, therefore Krauss didnt see cute bunnies :-(There is something that bothers me...1. How come there is prison on the Island? 2. Why is the phone working when none are supposed to because of the storm and 3. Gun point? Which gun? I would think more Demon threats. |
vinesageNov 26, 2009 7:26 AM
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vinesage said: Dark_Requiem said: Thx for the info. Well, that does sound a lot more logical from Battler and jessica's point of view when everyone speaks on the phone in turn. Just so you know since your trying to solve this; In the VN the phone was passed to all the people in the jail cell to verify what was happening (so gunpoint theory is more viable). The people who were in the guest house also alternated who held phone. The people in the guest house who talked using the phone were Battler, Jessica, George, Nanjo, Kumasawa, and Gohda. But doesnt that exactly what makes gunpointing theory less likely? Cause why would the culprit (Kinzo?) want every one of his prisoners to speak on the phone? Ok, he could be one of them and points gun @ others to let everyone speak on the phone to imply that Kinzo is indeed the culprit. What Id like to know is that who from the prison really speaks on the phone? Krauss, Kyrie, Nanjo, Shanon and Kanon all of them? And who speaks the most, Krauss? Doesn't really go into who spent the longest time exactly but it made it sound like Krauss spent the longest, Kyrie, Shannon, and Kanon spent a moderate amount of time, and Nanjo, Kumasawa, and Gohda spent the shortest. It says that Krauss, Kyrie, Nanjo, Shannon, and Kanon all spend time on the phone to verify themselves as being in the jail. The reason why I said that being held at gunpoint is more likely is because the they go to such an extent to prove that 5 of the survivors are stuck in a jail cell (whether that is true or not). Then again it's not like they need to be held at gunpoint, they just need to have a reason to lie to the guest house survivors (possibility of the "victims" of the twilight actually being alive and there are more hostages then it seems) |
PsychFreak said: francismeunier said: Yes! Mirage Coordinator well used...was it better used than last time they used Mirage Coordinator or was it first time they used it? This was the first time they used it I believe. Ok, well it was well done! DVDO said: Where are the subs already? How can you people understand this ep without it? I use vision logic and ask people who understand it along with the VNs of youtube....it works for me. I hate waiting for subs to see what happens next..... |
In spoiler my anime list for now. |
Dark_Requiem said: So, as i understand it, your suggestion is that the culprit is one of the "dead" and forces those 5 people (by whatever mean he uses), Krauss etc, to say that Kinzo went crazy killing people and now they are held prison somewhere so the kids should not go out of the guest-house? Doesn't really go into who spent the longest time exactly but it made it sound like Krauss spent the longest, Kyrie, Shannon, and Kanon spent a moderate amount of time, and Nanjo, Kumasawa, and Gohda spent the shortest. It says that Krauss, Kyrie, Nanjo, Shannon, and Kanon all spend time on the phone to verify themselves as being in the jail. The reason why I said that being held at gunpoint is more likely is because the they go to such an extent to prove that 5 of the survivors are stuck in a jail cell (whether that is true or not). Then again it's not like they need to be held at gunpoint, they just need to have a reason to lie to the guest house survivors (possibility of the "victims" of the twilight actually being alive and there are more hostages then it seems) I kind of still fail to see the reason why the culprit would want the children to "understand" that.... DVDO said: english subs arent out yet though i think there are a few other language subs already.Where are the subs already? How can you people understand this ep without it? no, neither english nor japanese is my native language, but i do able to use them to certain extent and i can as well understand a few more languages. its pretty useful in cases like this ;-) |
vinesageNov 26, 2009 8:20 AM
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| indeed I am one of the VN readers myself so I can watch these without the subs and get the gist of it.. and usually all the stuff they rushed or left out.. *shrug* "Sakutaro's revenge" when did Sakutaro ever want revenge? I dont recall that ever happening as for Rosa everything she says you can easily flip and redirect- at the person shes in my opinion really talking about "I wish you were never born" displaced unto maria real meaning "I wish I was never born" "I hate you" real meaning "I hate myself" that sort of thing. Sakutaro tried to get her out before that butchering started - and if she hates maria sooo much how come her first thought at least VN wise and word upon waking and un fogging of the mind was wheres maria heh *shrug* There is much more for Battler Maria and Jessica at the very least family wise. and Bern |
sirwence said: indeed I am one of the VN readers myself so I can watch these without the subs and get the gist of it.. and usually all the stuff they rushed or left out.. *shrug* "Sakutaro's revenge" when did Sakutaro ever want revenge? I dont recall that ever happening as for Rosa everything she says you can easily flip and redirect- at the person shes in my opinion really talking about "I wish you were never born" displaced unto maria real meaning "I wish I was never born" "I hate you" real meaning "I hate myself" that sort of thing. Sakutaro tried to get her out before that butchering started - and if she hates maria sooo much how come her first thought at least VN wise and word upon waking and un fogging of the mind was wheres maria heh *shrug* There is much more for Battler Maria and Jessica at the very least family wise. and Bern Indeed Sakutaro tried to save Rosa despite what she did to him and what did she do? SHE DENIED HIM AGAIN and after that Maria found her straight away. LOL I wonder how many other people will say that when this season is over. XDDD |
vinesage said: So, as i understand it, your suggestion is that the culprit is one of the "dead" and forces those 5 people (by whatever mean he uses), Krauss etc, to say that Kinzo went crazy killing people and now they are held prison somewhere so the kids should not go out of the guest-house? I kind of still fail to see the reason why the culprit would want the children to "understand" that.... Thats not really what I'm suggesting it pretty much couls be anyone. The culprit could just as easily been one of the people in the "jail" feigning innocence, someone who may or may not be dead, or even Kumasawa or Gohda since they have they do spend some time on the phone so they still would have contact with the others. If I go to far into it I'll spoil something so I'm not going to go into proof of a reason though once you watch the last episode you should be able to see some inconsistencies that wouldn't be there if the culprit didn't want to influence the actions of someone in the guest house. |
Dark_Requiem said: I do thought it was very likely that Kumasawa and Gohda didnt "escape" from the murder scene but they were sent there to "observe" the kids or to keep them where they were. But honestly i never for one sec considered the possibility that one of them could be culprit. That somehow just seems unlikely. Thats not really what I'm suggesting it pretty much couls be anyone. The culprit could just as easily been one of the people in the "jail" feigning innocence, someone who may or may not be dead, or even Kumasawa or Gohda since they have they do spend some time on the phone so they still would have contact with the others. If I go to far into it I'll spoil something so I'm not going to go into proof of a reason though once you watch the last episode you should be able to see some inconsistencies that wouldn't be there if the culprit didn't want to influence the actions of someone in the guest house. If consider that to be true, then the culprits not only sends 2 servants to the kids but also specially makes sure they stay in the room by phone. So yeah,i cant understand the reason why the kids seem to play such big roles in the murder plan of this arc. I thought they were always pretty passive and were never required to do anything except finding out some corpses. but i guess that reason might be revealed in the final ep. |
vinesageNov 26, 2009 5:09 PM
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| What a great episode, even though it was rushed. :D No Battler as well almost. <3 |
| as someone who hasnt played the VN to this point yet (im on ep 1) BEST EPISODE OF UMINEKO YET!!!! I really really loved this episode 5/5 My blog entry on it!! http://gamesmind.wordpress.com/2009/11/27/umineko-no-naku-koro-ni-22-rosafest/ |
game8910Nov 27, 2009 12:51 AM
vinesage said: Dark_Requiem said: I do thought it was very likely that Kumasawa and Gohda didnt "escape" from the murder scene but they were sent there to "observe" the kids or to keep them where they were. But honestly i never for one sec considered the possibility that one of them could be culprit. That somehow just seems unlikely. Thats not really what I'm suggesting it pretty much couls be anyone. The culprit could just as easily been one of the people in the "jail" feigning innocence, someone who may or may not be dead, or even Kumasawa or Gohda since they have they do spend some time on the phone so they still would have contact with the others. If I go to far into it I'll spoil something so I'm not going to go into proof of a reason though once you watch the last episode you should be able to see some inconsistencies that wouldn't be there if the culprit didn't want to influence the actions of someone in the guest house. If consider that to be true, then the culprits not only sends 2 servants to the kids but also specially makes sure they stay in the room by phone. So yeah,i cant understand the reason why the kids seem to play such big roles in the murder plan of this arc. I thought they were always pretty passive and were never required to do anything except finding out some corpses. but i guess that reason might be revealed in the final ep. Everyone in this series is pretty much related to the killings in some way. Magic is just a cover for that. |
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yurusenai!!! <3 |
| I knew Rosa was full of shit xD |
| I loved Maria's faces. The one after Battler was teasing her was epic. When did the scene where Maria killed Rosa occur? Did she revive her after the first twilight and kill her? Or did it happen in the past after Rosa killed Sakutarou? spoiler? |
| I wonder if Beato was bored having to watch Maria kill Rosa 100 times... |
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| just see the subs is out now. and I watched the preview of ep23. god i love these preview from umineko, so funny~ i just find out gaap is actually half naked! lol no wonder even Ronove got nosebleed there. And it seems like next ep will be all about Gaap and George, looks quite awesome for me. DeathfireD said: For me most people still are innocent. Everyone in this series is pretty much related to the killings in some way. Magic is just a cover for that. I'd say with 99% chance these people innocent: (aka havent killed people or dont really know whats going on at first) Battler, Jessica, George, Eva + her husband and Kinzo, and even maria might be counted in there. krauss, natsuhi etc only become suspicious in this arc, and the servants are more or less doing what they told only. So for me, technically speaking, there is only one (or maybe 2 :D ) culprit~ |
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