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SkyhighCFC said: So it was basically opinion criticism instead of story/writing criticism. My bad.Hulio said: Young children can be vastly different from each other, and even if Hanyuu wanted to help Rika the best she could manage, her ability to do so could be could be lacking, if not infantile aswell. She could perceive helping Rika to be equal of just wanting to help her pass time. Children can be highly sympathetic and empathetic, but it doesn't mean they could actually help adults on their own. You may feel that Hanyuu could have done more, but that's you, not Hanyuu. It's easy for us to see Hanyuu as an entity of great power who could do many many things to help Rika solve the events, but that's just us projecting ourselves in Hanyuu's... shoes. Next you're going to say that if you were Hanyuu, you would have immediately started stalking some key figures and solve the mystery in just a handful of fragments, but I don't think it works like that. Frankly it's even debatable how much she wanted to actually help Rika to survive past the events, but that's gonna be something completely different altogether. I was never gonna say anything like that. I generally don't like using arguments where I put myself in someone else's shoes. I'm only making slight criticisms of the overall story. Well... let us meet in couple hours on the topic of 12th. I wonder what they're going to show us, this should be the start of the climax right? |
| Intelligent gets through situations which wise avoids. |
Hulio said: SkyhighCFC said: So it was basically opinion criticism instead of story/writing criticism. My bad.I was never gonna say anything like that. I generally don't like using arguments where I put myself in someone else's shoes. I'm only making slight criticisms of the overall story. Well... let us meet in couple hours on the topic of 12th. I wonder what they're going to show us, this should be the start of the climax right? Looks like theyll start off with Neko. Hopefully they will cover it in one or two eps, but with the arcs so far, they might drag it out |
SkyhighCFC said: The story still has potential to be good? Man you're resilient.Man I really hope they make this final arc good. The story still has the potential to be pretty good (my opinion of course). Likewise it also has to potential to be completely ruined from my perspective...probably already too late for a lot of people here but hey, maybe they can somehow turn it around for those persons If I were a witch I'd say in Red that for those people whom this already is ruined, it will stay that way regardless of the ending. It's not like the last 4 episodes will make the almost 40 first episodes go away. Chargecoulomb said: Yeah, no way. This last arc will be 4 episodes. There's absolutely no way they will turn into 2 ep format.Looks like theyll start off with Neko. Hopefully they will cover it in one or two eps, but with the arcs so far, they might drag it out Also, honestly speaking, this point where we are, and having 4 episodes left. I really can't see this ending with that. Or no, more than that, if they really will end this with these 4 episodes, it is bound to feel lackluster and rushed. |
| Intelligent gets through situations which wise avoids. |
ssjokg said: Using this quote because it is the main issue in this thread. Danpmss said: Don't bother, anime onlies likely didn't even notice much of how unreliable Higurashi is from the start with PoVs (even though I'm sure Tsumihoroboshi touched on that). And if they are VN readers, shame on them. I could literally screenshot stuff from the OG anime and they wouldn't believe it. Even because a pen being a syringe in a certain perspective toooootally doesn't make it an unreliable perspective, right guys? And that's from the very start. (Source is Higurashi ep 24, 14min 47 sec, if that's the one way I have to objectively prove a point).  It's useless to insist, they don't care for the plot, nor for consistency, they WANT to call it bad writing and that's it. Dude you realize that nobody is talking about the pov of Keichi right? Keichi seeing something different is completely different from Keichi seeing nothing and us getting a entire scene of a different character's pov, from a different point of time as Keichi's. The only thing you "prove" is everyone else right about Gou and OG using an unreliable narrator in a different way. In which way this is different? K1 is infected by default at the start of every single chapter and has tendency to trigger easier the virus than the other characters, and that's just canon. I quotted the exact ways HS can be triggered on infected people in Hinamizawa, 2 of which match with what happened with K1 in both Oni AND Tatari in Sotsugyou. If they get level 4 in HS, they start to hallucinate stuff that isn't really there. And that much is clear to have happened in here. The perspectives were entirely different for a reason. In which way those differ in ANY WAY, if you mind me asking? Quoting the post in which I didn't quote several lines of the VNs won't do much. |
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Danpmss said: ssjokg said: Using this quote because it is the main issue in this thread. Dude you realize that nobody is talking about the pov of Keichi right? Keichi seeing something different is completely different from Keichi seeing nothing and us getting a entire scene of a different character's pov, from a different point of time as Keichi's. The only thing you "prove" is everyone else right about Gou and OG using an unreliable narrator in a different way. In which way this is different? K1 is infected by default at the start of every single chapter and has tendency to trigger easier the virus than the other characters, and that's just canon. I quotted the exact ways HS can be triggered on infected people in Hinamizawa, 2 of which match with what happened with K1 in both Oni AND Tatari in Sotsugyou. If they get level 4 in HS, they start to hallucinate stuff that isn't really there. And that much is clear to have happened in here. The perspectives were entirely different for a reason. In which way those differ in ANY WAY, if you mind me asking? Quoting the post in which I didn't quote several lines of the VNs won't do much. Hallucinating the story that another character MADE UP after the point of time he had said hallucination? Does Satoko know what he "saw"? Is that another bullshit power she has now? Can you realize how many leaps of logic this needs in order to "be the same" with the OG VN or anime?? In the OG Keichi mistakes something HE IS SEEING WHLE AWAKE for something else because of hallucinations. Here he sees the story Satoko made up AFTERWARDS WHILE HE IS UNCONSIOUS. You see the problem? If he had just seen that Teppei attacked him that would be fine.But no, in Tataridamashi we saw the exact same footage of the splatter Satoko caused+her story. Quoting the VN wont do shit here. |
JackDSF123 said: Danpmss said: You literally said Higurashi doesn't have an established unreliable perspective structure in its storytelling elaborated from the start like Umineko, and I literally proved you dead wrong with clear evidence of the contrary. No, read what I wrote again. I wrote that Higurashi doesn't feature the same kind of "unreliable narrator" that Umineko uses (the kind that appears to be in third person, though that's the game master's point of view in Umineko's case), the kind that Higurashi always uses is based on first person and not in third person or from the Game Master. I'll first I'll quote your post again: In Gou/sotsu, the scene is shown from another point of view, shown in third person. In third person there should not be in Higurashi the so-called "unreliable narrator", Higurashi IS NOT Umineko who has worked this out from the beginning. Yes, you did say exactly that, that Higurashi IS NOT Umineko who has worked this out from the beginning. To which I disagree, Higurashi DID elaborate from the very start its unreliable narration, which much differ from Umineko as you just well said. I took issue with you saying it wasn’t elaborated from the start, which is just not true. Danpmss said: You were complaining about me seemingly accepting that you need Umineko to understand what was going on in this Higurashi anime (which is bullshit, the unreliable narration works the same as it ever did since the start), and now YOU ARE USING UMINEKO'S KNOX RULES IN HIGURASHI? LOL Dlanor herself says that the Knox Decalogue are not immutable rules and that they are nothing more than a tool to help the reader understand and get to the truth (episode 5, I just don't remember if it was during the episode itself or during the Tea Party). I'm just using this to symbolize the need for you to present the evidence to say that the point of view over there is Keiichi's and that his point of view is that of an "unreliable narrator" to the same degree as Onikakushi. Because I obviously know that Higurashi is not a story that follows the decalogue to the letter. Even because, as you said, just the existence of Hanyuu already violates Knox 2nd. [/quote] Higurashi has its own set of rules (also used in a way with Umineko), the XYZ rules. All I’m saying is that Knox wasn’t in Ryukishi’s mind when he wrote Higurashi, he admitted as much at some point even, so don’t use it to prove a point, it just isn’t a consistent element that is part of Higu. JackDSF123 said: Okay, so K1 is really an unreliable point of view. But there is no parallel in Higurashi that shows that the L5 can be reached so quickly naturally. Naturally occurring HS has a considerably slow evolution of symptoms. Only H-173 has the ability to invoke HS symptoms immediately. Yes, he is more unstable than most of Higu's characters (maybe less unstable than Shion), but nothing explains such a rapid natural evolution in symptoms. As I recall, the case of Hinamizawa soldiers in the war was not immediate, it was certainly quicker due to the environment in which they were located and all the stress involved, but not immediately. (By the way, I don't even know why I'm discussing this as the very fact that K1 survived doesn't make sense hahaha). It never happened (only in the console arcs) in the OG Higurashi, but they did mentioned the possibility, and I quoted it accordingly. Just because it didn’t happen with anyone in the cast up to that point, doesn’t mean it can not. Particularly when one of the points of the damashi arcs is consistently flipping the roles from the original arcs. Tatarigoroshi had Satoko hallucinate that Teppei was still there abusing her, Tataridamashi had K1 hallucinate instead, and this was a pretty popular theory before this reveal. Not in here since nobody really bother to theorycrafting this too much on MAL anyway. But hey, Discords are for that. As for K1 surviving in here, it’s very much believable compared to the ridiculous damage and blood loss he suffered in Tataridamashi instead. I’ve seen people survive much worse, he just got bonked hard by an 11 years old girl 3-5 times in the head and went comatose for a while. As for K1 surviving in Onidamashi if the damage was as much of a façade as it was in here (like the manga has shown), it would not be surprising to believe it was the case now that we have a possible pattern with Tatariakashi. So yeah, you are discussing BECAUSE it now can make sense just fine. But alas, no explicit confirmation on that regard, oh welp. It’s just possible and that’s it, kinda annoying. JackDSF123 said: Well, if he only made it to L4 then it really isn't impossible as in the case of getting to L5. It still bothers me that he went from an apparent lucid state to immediately hallucinate something on that level, but I must admit it's not impossible or as absurd as I had thought. Well, following the weird Higurashi logic, it’s established to be possible haha Doesn’t mean it isn’t weird, but I’m used to WTC going nuts with that kind of thing tbh. Danpmss said: It's not a detective mystery, so don't treat it like one. I'm NOT considering Higu as a detective mystery, just as a mystery, and although you can't use all the rules of the Knox Decalogue on a mystery, the one I used can and should be used to get to the truth, otherwise any answer or solution, no matter how absurd, could be used to solve. And if any mystery (doesn't need to be a detective) breaks this specific rule, that's a sign of bad writing in terms of the mystery genre. And Higurashi doesn't break this rule in specific (just a little bit in Hanyuu's case, but even for her there are some clues that point to her existence). Before the truth is revealed in Minagoroshi-hen it is possible to arrive at the answers until the end of Tsumihoroboshi-hen.[/quote] Same thing I said above, even as a general rule, Knox is more applied to classic murder mystery settings, Higurashi doesn’t ever attempt to play by the book, it’s fair with what it establishes for itself for the most part though! Except some Hanyuu ex machinas and Satoko defeating trained forces with her traps I guess, but still lol Higurashi always had some BS in the middle, but it was also more written to be entertaining than anything else, in the author’s own words. |
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Devil_Slayer said: I almost wanna ask people to stop arguing with @Danpmss cuz everytime he writes a bible to defend this train wreck I scroll down like my life depend on it. Well, I wanna see you dismantle a single point that I quoted directly from the VN. Nobody could, they might as well stop replying to me if they can't argue for crap. At least they are not cowards tho lol Do make the difference yourself and show where my defense for this "trainwreck" went wrong. It's easy to go "Ah, he writes too much, I'll tell people not to reply to him, totally not because I can't really argue back with lines from the visual novel", or so is what it seems to me whenever I see this sort of comment. Forums are made for discussions, if you aren't here to discuss, just leave lol So far it's more consistent with original Higurashi information than the Deen anime ever was (plot holes with the unreliability ever since Onikakushi in there, since Tomitake never got drawn with a pen during the Watanagashi, meaning Mion's quote about "doing the same as they did to him" makes no sense in retrospect). |
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ssjokg said: Hallucinating the story that another character MADE UP after the point of time he had said hallucination? Does Satoko know what he "saw"? Is that another bullshit power she has now? Can you realize how many leaps of logic this needs in order to "be the same" with the OG VN or anime?? In the OG Keichi mistakes something HE IS SEEING WHLE AWAKE for something else because of hallucinations. Here he sees the story Satoko made up AFTERWARDS WHILE HE IS UNCONSIOUS. You see the problem? She doesn’t? Because IT DIDN’T MATCH WITH WHAT HE SAW AT ALL? Try listening to what she said again, and revisit what happened in Tataridamashi in Gou. That was such a “in your face” moment that I’m surprised you didn’t notice that the scene happening in the flashback didn’t match at all what she was saying (K1 attacking first). It’s no power of hers either, she is just lying her ass, and that lie doesn’t match the K1’s perspective we have seen. If he had just seen that Teppei attacked him that would be fine.But no, in Tataridamashi we saw the exact same footage of the splatter Satoko caused+her story. Quoting the VN wont do shit here. We just see the scene replaying and her story clearly not matching up with it, so no, quoting the VN as to why is possible is perfectly relevant. It that was your point of contention, it wasn't really a point of contention tbh |
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Danpmss said: Devil_Slayer said: I almost wanna ask people to stop arguing with @Danpmss cuz everytime he writes a bible to defend this train wreck I scroll down like my life depend on it. Well, I wanna see you dismantle a single point that I quoted directly from the VN. Nobody could, they might as well stop replying to me if they can't argue for crap. At least they are not cowards tho lol Do make the difference yourself and show where my defense for this "trainwreck" went wrong. It's easy to go "Ah, he writes too much, I'll tell people not to reply to him, totally not because I can't really argue back with lines from the visual novel", or so is what it seems to me whenever I see this sort of comment. Forums are made for discussions, if you aren't here to discuss, just leave lol So far it's more consistent with original Higurashi information than the Deen anime ever was (plot holes with the unreliability ever since Onikakushi in there, since Tomitake never got drawn with a pen during the Watanagashi, meaning Mion's quote about "doing the same as they did to him" makes no sense in retrospect). Beasted on him lol |
Danpmss said: The splatter is the same.ssjokg said: Hallucinating the story that another character MADE UP after the point of time he had said hallucination? Does Satoko know what he "saw"? Is that another bullshit power she has now? Can you realize how many leaps of logic this needs in order to "be the same" with the OG VN or anime?? In the OG Keichi mistakes something HE IS SEEING WHLE AWAKE for something else because of hallucinations. Here he sees the story Satoko made up AFTERWARDS WHILE HE IS UNCONSIOUS. You see the problem? She doesn’t? Because IT DIDN’T MATCH WITH WHAT HE SAW AT ALL? Try listening to what she said again, and revisit what happened in Tataridamashi in Gou. That was such a “in your face” moment that I’m surprised you didn’t notice that the scene happening in the flashback didn’t match at all what she was saying (K1 attacking first). It’s no power of hers either, she is just lying her ass, and that lie doesn’t match the K1’s perspective we have seen. If he had just seen that Teppei attacked him that would be fine.But no, in Tataridamashi we saw the exact same footage of the splatter Satoko caused+her story. Quoting the VN wont do shit here. We just see the scene replaying and her story clearly not matching up with it, so no, quoting the VN as to why is possible is perfectly relevant. It that was your point of contention, it wasn't really a point of contention tbh Except that it does match since they dont say anything that changes her story. The only difference in her lie is that she claims Keichi came with the bat and Teppei took it. Then what Keichi "saw" happens in her story. What's even more amazing is that Keichi hallucinated fighting back....He didnt even start hallucinating right after the first hit, he was perfectly lucid in Sotsu's scene, actually seeing Teppei dead, nothing indicating that he is seeing things and fainted after 3 hits but in Gou he is having a hallucination of fighting back. Danpmss said: "I know my VN trust me".Devil_Slayer said: I almost wanna ask people to stop arguing with @Danpmss cuz everytime he writes a bible to defend this train wreck I scroll down like my life depend on it. Well, I wanna see you dismantle a single point that I quoted directly from the VN. Nobody could, they might as well stop replying to me if they can't argue for crap. At least they are not cowards tho lol Do make the difference yourself and show where my defense for this "trainwreck" went wrong. It's easy to go "Ah, he writes too much, I'll tell people not to reply to him, totally not because I can't really argue back with lines from the visual novel", or so is what it seems to me whenever I see this sort of comment. Forums are made for discussions, if you aren't here to discuss, just leave lol So far it's more consistent with original Higurashi information than the Deen anime ever was (plot holes with the unreliability ever since Onikakushi in there, since Tomitake never got drawn with a pen during the Watanagashi, meaning Mion's quote about "doing the same as they did to him" makes no sense in retrospect). Meanwhile cant tell the difference between a hallucination and a made up story used together to mess with the viewer in the worst way possible.It isnt even unfair it is just an asshole move. "Is it possible that all those people are right and I am in the wrong regarding this? No, they are the ones that dont know shit about the story." |
ssjokg said: Danpmss said: In which way this is different? K1 is infected by default at the start of every single chapter and has tendency to trigger easier the virus than the other characters, and that's just canon. I quotted the exact ways HS can be triggered on infected people in Hinamizawa, 2 of which match with what happened with K1 in both Oni AND Tatari in Sotsugyou. If they get level 4 in HS, they start to hallucinate stuff that isn't really there. And that much is clear to have happened in here. The perspectives were entirely different for a reason. In which way those differ in ANY WAY, if you mind me asking? Quoting the post in which I didn't quote several lines of the VNs won't do much. Hallucinating the story that another character MADE UP after the point of time he had said hallucination? Does Satoko know what he "saw"? Is that another bullshit power she has now? Can you realize how many leaps of logic this needs in order to "be the same" with the OG VN or anime?? In the OG Keichi mistakes something HE IS SEEING WHLE AWAKE for something else because of hallucinations. Here he sees the story Satoko made up AFTERWARDS WHILE HE IS UNCONSIOUS. You see the problem? If he had just seen that Teppei attacked him that would be fine.But no, in Tataridamashi we saw the exact same footage of the splatter Satoko caused+her story. Quoting the VN wont do shit here. Where did you get this idea that Keichii saw what we were shown in GOU? This literally isn't true. In GOU when he woke up he said he didn't remember anything that happened that night. |
SkyhighCFC said: ssjokg said: Hallucinating the story that another character MADE UP after the point of time he had said hallucination? Does Satoko know what he "saw"? Is that another bullshit power she has now? Can you realize how many leaps of logic this needs in order to "be the same" with the OG VN or anime?? In the OG Keichi mistakes something HE IS SEEING WHLE AWAKE for something else because of hallucinations. Here he sees the story Satoko made up AFTERWARDS WHILE HE IS UNCONSIOUS. You see the problem? If he had just seen that Teppei attacked him that would be fine.But no, in Tataridamashi we saw the exact same footage of the splatter Satoko caused+her story. Quoting the VN wont do shit here. Where did you get this idea that Keichii saw what we were shown in GOU? This literally isn't true. In GOU when he woke up he said he didn't remember anything that happened that night. That is the problem. He didnt see anything(or at least cant remember what he saw) but Gou framed it seem like he did see something during the fight, whether that was a hallucination or not.. |
SkyhighCFC said: If K1 didn't see what we saw in GOU, thenWhere did you get this idea that Keichii saw what we were shown in GOU? This literally isn't true. In GOU when he woke up he said he didn't remember anything that happened that night. #1 What did we see? #2 What does that make out of Danpmss' argument. PS. Not remembering doesn't equal to not seeing ._. |
| Intelligent gets through situations which wise avoids. |
ssjokg said: SkyhighCFC said: Where did you get this idea that Keichii saw what we were shown in GOU? This literally isn't true. In GOU when he woke up he said he didn't remember anything that happened that night. That is the problem. He didnt see anything(or at least cant remember what he saw) but Gou framed it seem like he did see something during the fight, whether that was a hallucination or not.. They did indeed frame it like it's what Keichii saw, but as we can see that definitely isn't the case. We just saw the scenario that Satoko explained to Oishii (which is a bit odd tbh) |
SkyhighCFC said: Yeah, I guess that makes sense. Tho as you said above, it's definitely odd...Hulio said: If K1 didn't see what we saw in GOU, then #1 What did we see? #2 What does that make out of Danpmss' argument. PS. Not remembering doesn't equal to not seeing ._. What we saw was a visual representation of the story Satoko gave to Oishii (we saw this in the episode 11 of SOTSU). I personally am not getting involved in the Dan argument, I just felt I needed to clear up something |
| Intelligent gets through situations which wise avoids. |
SkyhighCFC said: They did indeed frame it like it's what Keichii saw, but as we can see that definitely isn't the case. We just saw the scenario that Satoko explained to Oishii (which is a bit odd tbh) Yes everyone except Danpmss can figure that out. The problem is that it was such a bullshit move from the anime. It could have just faded to black when Keichi reached for the light switch and then let us hear Satoko's faked scream. So simple. |
ssjokg said: The splatter is the same. Except that it does match since they dont say anything that changes her story. The only difference in her lie is that she claims Keichi came with the bat and Teppei took it. Then what Keichi "saw" happens in her story. What's even more amazing is that Keichi hallucinated fighting back....He didnt even start hallucinating right after the first hit, he was perfectly lucid in Sotsu's scene, actually seeing Teppei dead, nothing indicating that he is seeing things and fainted after 3 hits but in Gou he is having a hallucination of fighting back. Er no? The splatter DISPLAYED WHILE SHE IS LYING HER ASS OFF is the same, What she says about the splatter on itself is quite incompatible with what K1 hallucinated about, and that's the point. Satoko didn't see what he imagined, nor "fabricated" the red scene we watched in Gou. K1 was the clear PoV, her story didn't match with that PoV, THE END. It's not difficult to understand. It's not just because the end will be the same (both bodies beaten in the ground) that it "doesn't make much of a difference". Tell that to a judge anyway hue Satoko's story clearly differring from what K1's saw is clearly framed like that on purpose, you can see that what is being recapped from it is not at all the same of what he saw. What's even more amazing is that Keichi hallucinated fighting back....He didnt even start hallucinating right after the first hit, he was perfectly lucid in Sotsu's scene, actually seeing Teppei dead, nothing indicating that he is seeing things and fainted after 3 hits but in Gou he is having a hallucination of fighting back. Except he did IN HIS HEAD, during Gou (you know, unreliable perspective)? Right after the first hit the entire scene is COMPLETELY different from Gou's counterpart (not to mention the grainy filter being there as soon as he turned on the lights and saw the blood, but then again, nothing explicitly confirmed like this for that one detail yet). Sotsu's perspective is the reality of what happened, for all we can tell he is already hallucinating from the moment he got hit, and then saw Teppei's body thinking it was him attacking. He collapsed shortly after thinking he was hitting him, and that's the end of the story. Also not difficult to compare side by side with how it went in Gou anyway. OF COURSE HE IS "LUCID" IN SOTSU, he appears to be on the outside as it isn't his PoV in the first place, c'mon now. Danpmss said: "I know my VN trust me".Well, I wanna see you dismantle a single point that I quoted directly from the VN. Nobody could, they might as well stop replying to me if they can't argue for crap. At least they are not cowards tho lol Do make the difference yourself and show where my defense for this "trainwreck" went wrong. It's easy to go "Ah, he writes too much, I'll tell people not to reply to him, totally not because I can't really argue back with lines from the visual novel", or so is what it seems to me whenever I see this sort of comment. Forums are made for discussions, if you aren't here to discuss, just leave lol So far it's more consistent with original Higurashi information than the Deen anime ever was (plot holes with the unreliability ever since Onikakushi in there, since Tomitake never got drawn with a pen during the Watanagashi, meaning Mion's quote about "doing the same as they did to him" makes no sense in retrospect). Meanwhile cant tell the difference between a hallucination and a made up story used together to mess with the viewer in the worst way possible.It isnt even unfair it is just an asshole move. You couldn't prove shit wrong with what I just said and just displayed how much you misinterpreted that scene twice thinking K1 was "lucid" outside of his PoV when we have no idea of his PoV in Sotsu, just from Gou, which was the whole point of what was displayed. Would do you good read the VN one day, in which that sort of thing is expanded in great detail. I won't grow tired of saying the anime adaptation had MAJOR plot holes in this regard from the very start ("We will to you the same as we did to Tomitake", said Mion, while the anime omitted the scene they scribbled Tommy with the pen, which led to K1 assuming it's a syringe that will kill him like it did with Tomitake), while Sotsu is doing just fine. But hey, don't see you complaining about that one, it's a 10/10 right? "Is it possible that all those people are right and I am in the wrong regarding this? No, they are the ones that dont know shit about the story." HAH, are you denying that fact? Because they clearly don't for the most part. You admittedly don't know as much as a visual novel reader, VN from which Newgurashi is taking most of its extra content. I'm not even being arrogant in saying that anime-onlies don't know even half of Higurashi's content from the visual novels, it's just a reality. They enter in vastly more detail about everything. But sure, make it about me, and not about your lack of information on the series, while ironically using Umineko's VN as a reference point ever since Gou started airing, as I don't really need to quote you from back then, takes a simple visit to those threads. Contrary to Umineko's VN, Higurashi's VN is actually relevant to establish how things can and cannot play out in a given circumstance, since the anime adapted just the essentials, and barely so (needed a filler arc to cover some of the bigger plot holes, requested by the author himself). And then has the guts to shit on Higurashi established stuff, saying it's Newgurashi doing it wrong, when SEVERAL of your complains are things FROM HIGURASHI SINCE FOREVER, and that weren't an issue in the VN, since it actually composed a consistent story unlike the anime, and you will find that out once you actually read it anyway. This sort of attitude is what pisses me the most. Just because you are unfamiliar with the major detail from Higurashi's VN, doesn't mean I have anything to do with that, nor that Sotsugyou is shit for using it, unless you hate the original anyway. I'm impressed you can brush it off the first anime's inconsistencies as minor and complain about Gou/Sotsu's actually consistent lore use and shit on it. Perhaps because you never realized then, much like you don't realize what I'm constantly repeating in here. |
DanpmssSep 9, 2021 1:44 PM
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Danpmss said: ssjokg said: The splatter is the same. Except that it does match since they dont say anything that changes her story. The only difference in her lie is that she claims Keichi came with the bat and Teppei took it. Then what Keichi "saw" happens in her story. What's even more amazing is that Keichi hallucinated fighting back....He didnt even start hallucinating right after the first hit, he was perfectly lucid in Sotsu's scene, actually seeing Teppei dead, nothing indicating that he is seeing things and fainted after 3 hits but in Gou he is having a hallucination of fighting back. Er no? The splatter DISPLAYED WHILE SHE IS LYING HER ASS OFF is the same, What she says about the splatter on itself is quite incompatible with what K1 hallucinated about, and that's the point. Satoko didn't see what he imagined, nor "fabricated" the red scene we watched in Gou. K1 was the clear PoV, her story didn't match with that PoV, THE END. It's not difficult to understand. It's not just because the end will be the same (both bodies beaten in the ground) that it "doesn't make much of a difference". Tell that to a judge anyway hue Satoko's story clearly differring from what K1's saw is clearly framed like that on purpose, you can see that what is being recapped from it is not at all the same of what he saw. What's even more amazing is that Keichi hallucinated fighting back....He didnt even start hallucinating right after the first hit, he was perfectly lucid in Sotsu's scene, actually seeing Teppei dead, nothing indicating that he is seeing things and fainted after 3 hits but in Gou he is having a hallucination of fighting back. Except he did IN HIS HEAD, during Gou (you know, unreliable perspective)? Right after the first hit the entire scene is COMPLETELY different from Gou's counterpart (not to mention the grainy filter being there as soon as he turned on the lights and saw the blood, but then again, nothing explicitly confirmed like this for that one detail yet). Sotsu's perspective is the reality of what happened, for all we can tell he is already hallucinating from the moment he got hit, and then saw Teppei's body thinking it was him attacking. He collapsed shortly after thinking he was hitting him, and that's the end of the story. Also not difficult to compare side by side with how it went in Gou anyway. OF COURSE HE IS "LUCID" IN SOTSU, he appears to be on the outside as it isn't his PoV in the first place, c'mon now. "I know my VN trust me". Meanwhile cant tell the difference between a hallucination and a made up story used together to mess with the viewer in the worst way possible.It isnt even unfair it is just an asshole move. You couldn't prove shit wrong with what I just said and just displayed how much you misinterpreted that scene twice thinking K1 was "lucid" outside of his PoV when we have no idea of his PoV in Sotsu, just from Gou, which was the whole point of what was displayed. Would do you good read the VN one day, in which that sort of thing is expanded in great detail. I won't grow tired of saying the anime adaptation had MAJOR plot holes in this regard from the very start ("We will to you the same as we did to Tomitake", said Mion, while the anime omitted the scene they scribbled Tommy with the pen, which led to K1 assuming it's a syringe that will kill him like it did with Tomitake), while Sotsu is doing just fine. But hey, don't see you complaining about that one, it's a 10/10 right? "Is it possible that all those people are right and I am in the wrong regarding this? No, they are the ones that dont know shit about the story." HAH, are you denying that fact? Because they clearly don't for the most part. You admitedly don't know as much as a visual novel reader, VN from which Newgurashi is taking most of its extra content. I'm not even being arrogant in saying that anime-onlies don't know even half of Higurashi's content from the visual novels, it's just a reality. They enter in vastly more detail about everything. But sure, make it about me, and not about your lack of information on the series, while ironically using Umineko's VN as a reference point ever since Gou started airing, as I don't really need to quote you from back then, takes a simple visit to those threads. Contrary to Umineko's VN, Higurashi's VN is actually relevant to establish how things can and cannot play out in a given circumstance, since the anime adapted just the essentials, and barely so (needed a filler arc to cover some of the bigger plot holes, requested by the author himself). And then has the guts to shit on Higurashi established stuff, saying it's Newgurashi doing it wrong, when SEVERAL of your complains are things FROM HIGURASHI SINCE FOREVER, and that weren't an issue in the VN, since it actually composed a consistent story unlike the anime, and you will find that out once you actually read it anyway. Honestly you must be a pretty unique case if you try so hard to deny and twist what is actually shown. And then the typical tantrum of the vn reader that cant even agree with other vn readers. At this point we all must assume you have HS as well. SkyhighCFC said: I cant see how that would make people suspect Satoko more than they already did but we agree on it being cheap.ssjokg said: Yes everyone except Danpmss can figure that out. The problem is that it was such a bullshit move from the anime. It could have just faded to black when Keichi reached for the light switch and then let us hear Satoko's faked scream. So simple. I get you, but the thing with that though is that would still leave some suspicion on Satoko. I'm assuming they went for what they went with because it would divert some of the suspicion away from Satoko. It is a cheap move though. |
JackDSF123 said: Danpmss said: Yes, you did say exactly that, that Higurashi IS NOT Umineko who has worked this out from the beginning. To which I disagree, Higurashi DID elaborate from the very start its unreliable narration, which much differ from Umineko as you just well said. I took issue with you saying it wasn’t elaborated from the start, which is just not true. Please learn how to interpret text: "In Gou/sotsu, the scene is shown from another point of view, shown in third person. In third person there should not be in Higurashi the so-called "unreliable narrator", Higurashi IS NOT Umineko who has worked this out from the beginning." Basically I'm saying that: Higurashi, unlike Umineko, doesn't work the use from the beginning of this type of "unreliable narrator", the one told in third person (which in Umineko's case is told by a narrator who narrates the story from above and not from a narrator from within the story, in Umi's case Beato who, when telling the story to Battler, puts as much fantasy as she wants). This kind of unreliable narrator (that of telling the story in third person) that I mean Umineko works from the beginning and Higurashi doesn't. In this case, the scene takes place using this type of unreliable narrator, as the scene matches the lie told by Satoko to Ooishi, and for the scene to happen from K1's point of view he would have to become an unreliable narrator by himself, or that is, reaching higher stages of the HS so that he hallucinates the whole scene. But it has never been shown that, apart from the h-173, the HS evolves so fast in a natural way. I interpreted your text just fine, you are comically missing my point to be honest. I'll need to quote just this: Higurashi, unlike Umineko, doesn't work the use from the beginning of this type of "unreliable narrator", the one told in third person (which in Umineko's case is told by a narrator who narrates the story from above and not from a narrator from within the story, in Umi's case Beato who, when telling the story to Battler, puts as much fantasy as she wants). The point is that it does, from the very start. For example, any perspectives from the TIPs that aren't around K1's PoV are not the way he imagines them (he is the PoV in most of the VN, but the VN has dozens of minichapters outside of his perspective). Few actually hint on unreliable narration from his PoV, but they are there. The first anime doesn't really separate his PoV like that, but still respects that much about first person PoV (in the VN you would have extended TIPs all on Ooishi's perspective with the police as early as Onikakushi, and so did the old anime in ep4 anyway, somewhat). But much more importantly, this ISN'T a third person perspective. Higurashi is very consistent with what is being portrayed as the first person in each chapter, even in the anime, on the best of their capabilities. In Sotsu, we are seeing SATOKO'S FIRST PERSON PERSPECTIVE. As well as Ooishi's and "Teppei's" here and there (the latter as much as Rika's or K1's minor 1st person perspectives for the recaps). There's no third person perspective. Satoko is a reliable perspective. There's no omniscient narrator, Much like the old anime AND the VN, when a character is the focus of the story, it will follow their outlook on things almost exclusively. We may see a scene here and there with other characters (much like old Higurashi by the time Matsuribayashi introduces multiple PoVs), but the one we are following at all times otherwise is very clear, either through monologuing (like Rena's in Oni, Mion's in Wata and Ooishi's in Tatariakashi), flashbacks or purely from the perspective with the most focus in each arc. OniWataTata in Gou, much like their counterparts in OG, are through K1's eyes. Tsumi/Oniakashi, Mea/Wataakashi and Mina/Tatariakashi have Rena (AND Satoko in Sotsu), Shion (Mion instead AND Satoko in Sotsu) and Rika (Oiishi instead AND Satoko). With some scenes in between with other characters outside that PoV, as it always has been the case much before the original Higurashi even when multiple PoVs at the same time in Matsuribayashi. It's quite consistent of a thing, and has little to do with Umineko structure composed of First person and third omniscient person. It's not there in Higu, and it's not there in Newgurashi. it's just multiple PoVs in first person as it always has been. |
DanpmssSep 9, 2021 2:17 PM
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ssjokg said: Danpmss said: Er no? The splatter DISPLAYED WHILE SHE IS LYING HER ASS OFF is the same, What she says about the splatter on itself is quite incompatible with what K1 hallucinated about, and that's the point. Satoko didn't see what he imagined, nor "fabricated" the red scene we watched in Gou. K1 was the clear PoV, her story didn't match with that PoV, THE END. It's not difficult to understand. It's not just because the end will be the same (both bodies beaten in the ground) that it "doesn't make much of a difference". Tell that to a judge anyway hue Satoko's story clearly differring from what K1's saw is clearly framed like that on purpose, you can see that what is being recapped from it is not at all the same of what he saw. Except he did IN HIS HEAD, during Gou (you know, unreliable perspective)? Right after the first hit the entire scene is COMPLETELY different from Gou's counterpart (not to mention the grainy filter being there as soon as he turned on the lights and saw the blood, but then again, nothing explicitly confirmed like this for that one detail yet). Sotsu's perspective is the reality of what happened, for all we can tell he is already hallucinating from the moment he got hit, and then saw Teppei's body thinking it was him attacking. He collapsed shortly after thinking he was hitting him, and that's the end of the story. Also not difficult to compare side by side with how it went in Gou anyway. OF COURSE HE IS "LUCID" IN SOTSU, he appears to be on the outside as it isn't his PoV in the first place, c'mon now. You couldn't prove shit wrong with what I just said and just displayed how much you misinterpreted that scene twice thinking K1 was "lucid" outside of his PoV when we have no idea of his PoV in Sotsu, just from Gou, which was the whole point of what was displayed. Would do you good read the VN one day, in which that sort of thing is expanded in great detail. I won't grow tired of saying the anime adaptation had MAJOR plot holes in this regard from the very start ("We will to you the same as we did to Tomitake", said Mion, while the anime omitted the scene they scribbled Tommy with the pen, which led to K1 assuming it's a syringe that will kill him like it did with Tomitake), while Sotsu is doing just fine. But hey, don't see you complaining about that one, it's a 10/10 right? HAH, are you denying that fact? Because they clearly don't for the most part. You admitedly don't know as much as a visual novel reader, VN from which Newgurashi is taking most of its extra content. I'm not even being arrogant in saying that anime-onlies don't know even half of Higurashi's content from the visual novels, it's just a reality. They enter in vastly more detail about everything. But sure, make it about me, and not about your lack of information on the series, while ironically using Umineko's VN as a reference point ever since Gou started airing, as I don't really need to quote you from back then, takes a simple visit to those threads. Contrary to Umineko's VN, Higurashi's VN is actually relevant to establish how things can and cannot play out in a given circumstance, since the anime adapted just the essentials, and barely so (needed a filler arc to cover some of the bigger plot holes, requested by the author himself). And then has the guts to shit on Higurashi established stuff, saying it's Newgurashi doing it wrong, when SEVERAL of your complains are things FROM HIGURASHI SINCE FOREVER, and that weren't an issue in the VN, since it actually composed a consistent story unlike the anime, and you will find that out once you actually read it anyway. Honestly you must be a pretty unique case if you try so hard to deny and twist what is actually shown. And then the typical tantrum of the vn reader that cant even agree with other vn readers. At this point we all must assume you have HS as well. SkyhighCFC said: I cant see how that would make people suspect Satoko more than they already did but we agree on it being cheap.I get you, but the thing with that though is that would still leave some suspicion on Satoko. I'm assuming they went for what they went with because it would divert some of the suspicion away from Satoko. It is a cheap move though. Once again you couldn't counterargue for shit and prefer to just ad hominem as me throwing a tantrum, to the best of your capability, to downplay the arguments you couldn't address. Bravo. Just proving my entire post in few words. |
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| @Danpmss I really don't get what you see in the splatter (which tbh I pointed out earlier but it was left counterargued.. I guess that proved me right then?) K1 beating Teppei Satoko beating Teppei Use the friggin same scene... K1 can't hallucinate something into existence that already exists... unless he first hallucinates it into oblivion, which is retarded af. |
| Intelligent gets through situations which wise avoids. |
Hulio said: @Danpmss I really don't get what you see in the splatter (which tbh I pointed out earlier but it was left counterargued.. I guess that proved me right then?) K1 beating Teppei Satoko beating Teppei Use the friggin same scene... K1 can't hallucinate something into existence that already exists... unless he first hallucinates it into oblivion, which is retarded af. I mean, quote me first, man. I don't read all of the discussion. If you don't quote me we can't debate, and therefore nothing will be counterargued haha Anyway, to the point then! K1 beating Teppei (considering as a hallucination from a derranged perspective, he neither beat him nor anyone in reality, he just saw his body after being hit and his mind made up the rest while he freaked out) Satoko beating Teppei (the reality, the bloody mess that would make Tarantino proud and doctors in disbelief with the blood physics of splatter movies) Satoko beating K1 (also reality as it happens, she is the PoV for that scene, K1 imagined what he saw in his PoV during Gou) Use the friggin same scene (and make sure the dialogue describing the given said scene doesn't match at all with what it actually happen in K1's PoV, since of course, Satoko can't see that, making the contrast of the both of them very obvious and on purpose). Imo, it's not exactly a perfect way to have done that, because I would have much preferred this sort of thing to be introduced during the Tsumi counterpart Oniakashi, which would be much more fitting, and thus create a pattern to this instead, and not (POSSIBLY?) vice-versa, if we are to consider the manga, and how the damage K1 took in here is much more belieavably survivable than what "Teppei" did to him in his PoV during Tataridamashi. So much it wasn't the ideal way to do it that people are arguing about it being just Satoko lying and that scene being that despite the descriptions not matching at all, so there's also that. But overall it does its job imo. It follows another cool certain pattern as well, comparing OG with Sotsugyou. The roles are always inversed from the "red herrings" in the OG: Rena is indeed the crazy one, not Keiichi. Mion is indeed the crazy one, not Shion. And unlike in the original tatarigoroshi, in which K1 was the one people thought was going mad and hallucinating, it was Satoko instead, hallucinating that Teppei was still there beating her, what we get instead in Tatariakashi is K1 hallucinating about Teppei being alive beating him, while Satoko is not hallucinating herself. |
DanpmssSep 9, 2021 3:22 PM
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| >K1 clearly seeing a dead Teppei. >This means he clearly saw bimself beating him. Yeah okay. Your fanboyism is almost concerning. |
Danpmss said: Ahaha... haha.. my bad my bad... No, I mean... I did ._.Hulio said: @Danpmss I really don't get what you see in the splatter (which tbh I pointed out earlier but it was left counterargued.. I guess that proved me right then?) K1 beating Teppei Satoko beating Teppei Use the friggin same scene... K1 can't hallucinate something into existence that already exists... unless he first hallucinates it into oblivion, which is retarded af. I mean, quote me first, man. I don't read all of the discussion. If you don't quote me we can't debate, and therefore nothing will be counterargued haha https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1953459&show=50#msg64299707 Use the friggin same scene (and make sure the dialogue describing the given said scene doesn't match at all with what it actually happen in K1's PoV, since of course, Satoko can't see that, making the contrast of the both of them very obvious and on purpose). I'm just talking about the splatter part, as an counterargument to your argument which you were making a week ago.So much it wasn't the ideal way to do it that people are arguing about it being just Satoko lying and that scene being that despite the descriptions not matching at all, so there's also that. But overall it does its job imo. To my understanding, your point is that K1 is hallucinating, and he hallucinated the carnage happening. To which I claimed that the carnage had already happened. The visual proof you gave of "New blood on top of pre-existing blood" was countered with mine "That new blood was already there caused by Satoko, the exact same splatters" And unlike in the original tatarigoroshi, in which K1 was the one people thought was going mad and hallucinating, it was Satoko instead, hallucinating that Teppei was still there beating her, Well, who did and who didn't. Personally I don't remember suspecting K1 on this chapter, but neither did I suspect Satoko.what we get instead in Tatariakashi is K1 hallucinating about Teppei being alive beating him, while Satoko is not hallucinating herself. I hadn't considered it myself, but @SkyhighCFC did make the most plausible theory.K1 didn't hallucinate, no-one did. What we saw was a lie, Satoko's lie of the scene. I kinda hope (even tho I've already lost the hope) that the writing reason for having K1 survive all these events (when he really should die) isn't for the sake of end exposition of the "higurashi" and "hinamizawa syndrome". In Oniakashi, you needed K1 alive to make us believe he hallucinated everything In Tataridamashi, you needed him alive for pretty much the same reason. Had he died, it would have demolished the foundations of the OG-like mystery and nobody would have ever considered him as the culprit. Actually, now as I was writing this, I'm fully convinced this is the case. SotsuGou tried to replicate the originals too much. In Oni, the lie comes from K1 In Wata, the lie comes from Shmion And in Tatari, the lie comes from Satoko. Why did they have to go this far? I have no idea. |
| Intelligent gets through situations which wise avoids. |
| Yes Satoko wins again....the episode has no impact for me now knowing it was Satoko the entire time in this season. Hell I don't even call this a 2nd season anymore, its just behind the curtain of the last season. |
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| Ok after 11 episodes I've come to the conclusion Sotsu is just a fucking recap with extra scenes. Didnt need this much to tell the viewers that Satoko were the orchestrator behind what happened in Gou. Give us 1 arc and we'll understand ffs. |
Hulio said: Danpmss said: Ahaha... haha.. my bad my bad... No, I mean... I did ._.I mean, quote me first, man. I don't read all of the discussion. If you don't quote me we can't debate, and therefore nothing will be counterargued haha https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1953459&show=50#msg64299707 Huh, so you did. I apologize in that case, I completely missed your post. I replied with that post anyway tho, so no biggies there. Use the friggin same scene (and make sure the dialogue describing the given said scene doesn't match at all with what it actually happen in K1's PoV, since of course, Satoko can't see that, making the contrast of the both of them very obvious and on purpose). So much it wasn't the ideal way to do it that people are arguing about it being just Satoko lying and that scene being that despite the descriptions not matching at all, so there's also that. But overall it does its job imo. I'm just talking about the splatter part, as an counterargument to your argument which you were making a week ago. To my understanding, your point is that K1 is hallucinating, and he hallucinated the carnage happening. To which I claimed that the carnage had already happened. The visual proof you gave of "New blood on top of pre-existing blood" was countered with mine "That new blood was already there caused by Satoko, the exact same splatters" No no, K1 hallucinated about Teppei smacking the shit out of thing and their fight, that was my point. From the moment he got hit, things could be unreliable canonically, considering how hallucinations on infected HS people react to sudden loss on bodily fluids, psychological reactions, and the like. The splatted blood in the table being Teppei's in Sotsu is true though. You counterargument holds ground for that evidence, actually. So I'll admit defeat in it being a further hint for unreliability. It all came from Teppei, and not from K1, even because in reality he lost much less blood than in the unreliable scene. And unlike in the original tatarigoroshi, in which K1 was the one people thought was going mad and hallucinating, it was Satoko instead, hallucinating that Teppei was still there beating her, Well, who did and who didn't. Personally I don't remember suspecting K1 on this chapter, but neither did I suspect Satoko. To refresh your mind, there was a whole plot about Teppei still being alive after K1 killed him and still tormenting Satoko and abusing her (which leads to the bathtub scene.). K1 was the one that was supposed to be portrayed, even in his own monologues, as the one being crazy, since he couldn't believe he DIDN'T kill him, when he felt every single bonk through his hands. As it turned out, Satoko was the one hallucinating the abuse in that chapter, as she also did in the past as well, which also connects to the plot of her lying about her abuses as well later on, since some of them was just her imagining them happening. Fittingly, this arc was about Satoko actively lying about that regarding a reformed Teppei, which was what ultimately led to her breaking, since it was the crucial point in her childhood problems and character conflict. If there was one thing Sotsu got very right was this imo, Teppei stole the show so far. what we get instead in Tatariakashi is K1 hallucinating about Teppei being alive beating him, while Satoko is not hallucinating herself. I hadn't considered it myself, but @SkyhighCFC did make the most plausible theory.K1 didn't hallucinate, no-one did. What we saw was a lie, Satoko's lie of the scene. Not a bad theory at all imo. Though I would say it doesn't cover the whole ground. What Satoko said still don't match what was displayed at all, and if that was the case, I would incline to agree, even. This is not something people simply overlook in a script, there's a clear contrast in what is being said and what is being shown, and it's not like this anime's production is in any way rushed (hell, they reanimated several revisited scenes from the ground up Endless Eight style). I kinda hope (even tho I've already lost the hope) that the writing reason for having K1 survive all these events (when he really should die) isn't for the sake of end exposition of the "higurashi" and "hinamizawa syndrome". In Oniakashi, you needed K1 alive to make us believe he hallucinated everything In Tataridamashi, you needed him alive for pretty much the same reason. Had he died, it would have demolished the foundations of the OG-like mystery and nobody would have ever considered him as the culprit. I mean, it's kind of precisely the reason why I think it's just fitting to assume that at some point he did hallucinate under sheer stress, shock, and even gallons of blood loss. Onidamashi shown a survivable amount in the manga. Tatariakashi shown a vastly more survivable damage than what fake Teppei seemingly gave him. It's easy to connect one and the other, honestly, especially when it was the most important expositional element in the OG Higu experience, the whole unreliable PoV thing. Actually, now as I was writing this, I'm fully convinced this is the case. SotsuGou tried to replicate the originals too much. In Oni, the lie comes from K1 In Wata, the lie comes from Shmion And in Tatari, the lie comes from Satoko. Yeah, you are following my same logic there, but we differ on the causes for said pattern. Why did they have to go this far? I have no idea. For whichever of the two may apply, I'd say for consistency sake, because the XYZ rule are the Higurashi equivalent to the Knox usage in Umi. Depending of the rule XYZ in Sotsu, both can fit, if disconsidering Satoko's lie not matching what is being displayed (therefore it not really representing what she is telling). Tataridamashi was all on K1's PoV anyway, thus why I think hallucination fits much better, even in terms of revisting what the OG did with unreliability, which didn't really happened in Newgurashi (not in the same way as a twist anyway). |
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| @danpmss they cut the Houjou house scene in the manga for a reason. |
Eh, the manga cut a lot of essential things even from Nekodamashi, including the whole sword plot and Hanyuu giving Rika powers to remember, which is the reason why Satoko escalated her scheme in there, since she would remember her most dearest people killing her (which she conveniently assumes to be the case in the manga). It's trying to go through every arc in a single tankobon, and only the festival massacre from Tatari got covered in in next volume, much like Nekodamashi 1 also had that at the start of the episode in the anime. Nekodamashi in particular suffered a whole lot from this, and is most definitely inferior. So no, they didn't cut it "for a reason". |
DanpmssSep 16, 2021 9:53 AM
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Danpmss said: Eh, the manga cut a lot of essential things even from Nekodamashi, including the whole sword plot and Hanyuu giving Rika powers to remember, which is the reason why Satoko escalated her scheme in there, since she would remember her most dearest people killing her (which she conveniently assumes to be the case in the manga). It's trying to go through every arc in a single tankobon, and only the festival massacre from Tatari got covered in in next volume, much like Nekodamashi 1 also had that at the start of the episode in the anime. Nekodamashi in particular suffered a whole lot from this, and is most definitely inferior. So no, they didn't cut it "for a reason". Probably the only person to think that the manga at any point is somehow inferior. |
ssjokg said: Danpmss said: Eh, the manga cut a lot of essential things even from Nekodamashi, including the whole sword plot and Hanyuu giving Rika powers to remember, which is the reason why Satoko escalated her scheme in there, since she would remember her most dearest people killing her (which she conveniently assumes to be the case in the manga). It's trying to go through every arc in a single tankobon, and only the festival massacre from Tatari got covered in in next volume, much like Nekodamashi 1 also had that at the start of the episode in the anime. Nekodamashi in particular suffered a whole lot from this, and is most definitely inferior. So no, they didn't cut it "for a reason". Probably the only person to think that the manga at any point is somehow inferior. Nah, there's a playthrough discord server I'm in (Hinamizawa) from which a fair chunk of people is not enjoying the manga very much after Watadamashi, since they cut stuff from it, many of those omissions being very important. You sure like to make things all about "me against the world!!", huh? lol (argumentum ad populum is a recurring fallacy of yours, no surprise there). If you like it despite what is missing, good for you, the removals were detrimental in my opinion, as I exemplified. |
DanpmssSep 16, 2021 10:52 AM
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| If making rika just suffer forever is da new goal then surely shit won't go her way, but yea seems like she is just dragging it out now. |
 Behold of my awesomeness~ controversial and/or sensitive topics likely devolve into the same repetitive, derogatory, abusive, and harassing comments can no longer be posted. But my feels. |
| this is getting weird. unless Ooishi was killing everyone for a few hours, it would have been more efficient for Satoko to off Rika when she came to pick Satoko up for the festival, making her realise (after her death) that all the effort was wasted again yea? Cause Rika can't remember the last few hours of her death, going through all the trouble of making Ooishi kill everyone in a couple of minutes before killing Rika would give the same result (for Rika) as what I just suggested. Although, maybe i am wrong and Ooishi really did spend a few hours just shooting everyone while they stand there to get killed by him... |
yhagni said: More or less everything in these seasons have been written in the essence of "X happens for the sake of X happening".this is getting weird. unless Ooishi was killing everyone for a few hours, it would have been more efficient for Satoko to off Rika when she came to pick Satoko up for the festival, making her realise (after her death) that all the effort was wasted again yea? There's no other reason to have Ooishi's shootout than to have Ooishi's shootout. Not sure if it's the fault of the writing, or the direction, but everything just feels so shallow. |
| Intelligent gets through situations which wise avoids. |
yhagni said: this is getting weird. unless Ooishi was killing everyone for a few hours, it would have been more efficient for Satoko to off Rika when she came to pick Satoko up for the festival, making her realise (after her death) that all the effort was wasted again yea? Cause Rika can't remember the last few hours of her death, going through all the trouble of making Ooishi kill everyone in a couple of minutes before killing Rika would give the same result (for Rika) as what I just suggested. Although, maybe i am wrong and Ooishi really did spend a few hours just shooting everyone while they stand there to get killed by him... It's not really about efficiency. It's about giving Rika false hope so that she'll fall into despair further. She may not remember her death, but she'll remember most of that timeline and how close she was to achieving the perfect ending. Thats why after this event, she gave it five more tries before she'll commit that looper suicide in Gou. My only complaint is how the heck Keiichi didn't smell that disgusting blood. I've been on a crime scene once and it only had less than half the amount of blood and the smell was enough to make me throw up. lol |
MxS7HGS said: yhagni said: ... It's not really about efficiency. It's about giving Rika false hope so that she'll fall into despair further. She may not remember her death, but she'll remember most of that timeline and how close she was to achieving the perfect ending. Thats why after this event, she gave it five more tries before she'll commit that looper suicide in Gou. My only complaint is how the heck Keiichi didn't smell that disgusting blood. I've been on a crime scene once and it only had less than half the amount of blood and the smell was enough to make me throw up. lol Like I said, the result would have been the same either way. Killing her when she went to visit Satoko would also give her further despair since she has already considered the timeline as perfect after successfully "saving" Satoko. Besides, relying on Ooishi is a little too risky since you can't be sure a stray bullet wouldn't find its way through Satoko's miserable head, which would render everything pointless for Satoko (it has been some time since i last watched this so maybe Satoko did make some safety plans i forgot about). |
yhagni said: MxS7HGS said: It's not really about efficiency. It's about giving Rika false hope so that she'll fall into despair further. She may not remember her death, but she'll remember most of that timeline and how close she was to achieving the perfect ending. Thats why after this event, she gave it five more tries before she'll commit that looper suicide in Gou. My only complaint is how the heck Keiichi didn't smell that disgusting blood. I've been on a crime scene once and it only had less than half the amount of blood and the smell was enough to make me throw up. lol Like I said, the result would have been the same either way. Killing her when she went to visit Satoko would also give her further despair since she has already considered the timeline as perfect after successfully "saving" Satoko. Besides, relying on Ooishi is a little too risky since you can't be sure a stray bullet wouldn't find its way through Satoko's miserable head, which would render everything pointless for Satoko (it has been some time since i last watched this so maybe Satoko did make some safety plans i forgot about). Yeah, I just finished that episode where Rika kept getting dreams the moment when Satoko finished her off. I guess Satoko messed up relying on Oiishi doing the job. Her plan became too elaborate. I guess that's the miracle Hanyuu was referring to. |
| Umineko narrator style is hot garbage, pretty ironic for a mystery serie, at least it make sense when it happen to Keichii after getting brain blasted with a bat in his POV. |
| Another tragic end and rewindddddd kekeke |
| So the scene we saw in Gou actually didn't happen, but it was what Satoko gold Ooishi that happened. A pretty cheap trick, of course we won't be able to figure out what really happened, if we are being fed wrong information. |
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