Shingeki no Kyojin Chapter 139 / Ending Discussion

Offline

Feb 2014

42

Catalano said:

grandy_UiD said:
So I finally got around to finishing the series. After hearing all that bitching about the worst ending ever, I gotta admit it wasn't nearly as bad as I was afraid it would be. But let's not discuss that.

There is one thing I don't understand: the whole Berthold/Dina/Carla scene. So I get that Eren sent Dina to kill Carla because "Berthold wasn't supposed to die yet". But how the hell would Berthold have died if that hadn't happened? I must've complete forgotten about some detail. Anyone got a reminder for me?

dina was about to eat berthold and he was weak, still, it was useless, if dina transformed into a shifter, the war would have been easier for paradis, imagine the island getting a royal blood and the power of the collosal, grischa would talk with her immediately, dina was an eldian nationalist, she would have helped paradis.
that element in the story was nonsensical, chapter 139 was weird.

I can see many ways it going wrong. Reiner could retrieve the titan right there (eat it perhaps?) or just take it back. Having 2/4 people dead he would have to go back grudgingly. Marley launches a second attack, and this time Paradis is destroyed way quicker.

In the case where Eren's mom is actually saved, Grisha wouldn't have the motivation to pass the titan to Eren in the first place. This would create a paradox.

Sep 16, 2021 7:57 PM

#1706

ezz365

Offline

Apr 2021

106

Catalano said:

dina was about to eat berthold and he was weak, still, it was useless, if dina transformed into a shifter, the war would have been easier for paradis, imagine the island getting a royal blood and the power of the collosal, grischa would talk with her immediately, dina was an eldian nationalist, she would have helped paradis.
that element in the story was nonsensical, chapter 139 was weird.

I can see many ways it going wrong. Reiner could retrieve the titan right there (eat it perhaps?) or just take it back. Having 2/4 people dead he would have to go back grudgingly. Marley launches a second attack, and this time Paradis is destroyed way quicker.

In the case where Eren's mom is actually saved, Grisha wouldn't have the motivation to pass the titan to Eren in the first place. This would create a paradox.

Exactly, if Eren doesn't acquire the titan, he couldn't enter to the paths to tell Grisha to eat the founding titan, so he wouldn't.

Sep 16, 2021 11:01 PM

#1707

grandy_UiD

Offline

Jun 2009

5411

Catalano said:

dina was about to eat berthold and he was weak

This makes sense to me and it's what I thought as well. But was the possibility of this happening actually ever shown previously? Like, is there a scene somewhere in the manga where we see Dina being dangerously close to Bertholt or something like that?

Sep 17, 2021 12:38 AM

#1708

Offline

Feb 2014

42

grandy_UiD said:

Catalano said:

dina was about to eat berthold and he was weak

This makes sense to me and it's what I thought as well. But was the possibility of this happening actually ever shown previously? Like, is there a scene somewhere in the manga where we see Dina being dangerously close to Bertholt or something like that?

Yeah, in the chapter where Reiner is recalling events of that day (chapter 96, around page 28) panel shows dina titan very close to bert but she ignores him. Bert looked visibly surprised, and says "Huh".

In one of the memory shards in Chapter 130, a fragment showing Eren watching Bert through the titan as well.

Sep 18, 2021 12:30 AM

#1709

grandy_UiD

Offline

Jun 2009

5411

Keikaku2871 said:

grandy_UiD said:

This makes sense to me and it's what I thought as well. But was the possibility of this happening actually ever shown previously? Like, is there a scene somewhere in the manga where we see Dina being dangerously close to Bertholt or something like that?

Yeah, in the chapter where Reiner is recalling events of that day (chapter 96, around page 28) panel shows dina titan very close to bert but she ignores him. Bert looked visibly surprised, and says "Huh".

In one of the memory shards in Chapter 130, a fragment showing Eren watching Bert through the titan as well.

Ah, yes, found it. Thanks a lot. I think that's actually kinda cool.

Sep 20, 2021 9:58 PM

#1710

zainyinc

Offline

Mar 2020

1

I found a lot of shit wrong with the chapter in my opinion but my biggest complaint would have to be the blow to Eren as a character. Went from a goat that was super interesting and empowering to me to now just a contradiction to everything I loved about his character and the themes he carried. It hurt seeing what isayama did to him and it just fathoms me that this chapter was written by the same author that built a otherwise beautiful and cohesive story. Rip Eren

Sep 21, 2021 4:49 PM

#1711

Offline

Feb 2014

42

zainyinc said:
I found a lot of shit wrong with the chapter in my opinion but my biggest complaint would have to be the blow to Eren as a character. Went from a goat that was super interesting and empowering to me to now just a contradiction to everything I loved about his character and the themes he carried. It hurt seeing what isayama did to him and it just fathoms me that this chapter was written by the same author that built a otherwise beautiful and cohesive story. Rip Eren

Yams created the Eren we see in chapter 100 onwards as a facade, he was always the human you see in chapter 139. It is the same for Erwin who is shown to be selfless person early on but then is shown to be the most selfish person who wants to see the basement even if it means the death of everyone and humanity loses. It is same with Reiner, who is initially shown to be brother like figure, to supposedly a piece of shit who massacres humanity, to a complex human being a victim of propaganda and suffering from ptsd. Same with Zeke who is initially shown to be a cold person who would go lengths to even sacrificing his parents, to someone who actually just wanted a loving family and found one with Xavier.

Eren remains a complex and well-written character throughout the manga. That said, the primary themes he carried remains the same even in the last chapter.

Sep 21, 2021 11:40 PM

#1712

tanuu19

Offline

May 2021

43

Ruin the whole thing for me..
I wish i never reading this chapter & ending it at chapter 138.

Sep 24, 2021 8:09 AM

#1713

zerokarasu

Offline

Feb 2020

533

ever heard of GoT?? sound familiar? its exactly the same,this is what happen when u not "writing for the story" but just creating a "fanservice" instead,all of this just for the sake of fanservice:
-why eren become different?? so that the entire failure lelouch wannabe can happen,the entire of "plot" can exist,if eren still the guy that seek "freedom" that final arc ending will not happen and ur "Disney happy ending" not happen either.
-every single character,EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER survived so the fans will be happy,even the one that turn into titan come back to human? how? "magic called deus ex machina"
-isayama make eren doing BAD THING,like no joke,on hitler level while portraying him as "tragic" without giving him a treatment for a proper "Tragic hero".
-the entire BULLSHIT FORCED ROMANCE with eren mikasa,ever heard of sakura romance in naruto?? yeah that shit didnt exist,but in the end she marry sasuke right?? why? its called forced romance for reason.
-ymir the entire root of titan problem??? yeah just make her a "slave of love" after mikasa kiss eren then shes gone poof(search deus ex machina once again)
-suddenly armin and the entire "team avengers" cast got their "BRAIN" back,like "SO U DID ALL OF THIS FOR US EREN?? WE DONT REALISE THAT AT ALL" ofc u dont u fuckng idiot armin,ur brain has gone deleted by isayama.

aot is a series that ruined because instead of the author focused on the story,he focused on "pleasing" the fans with fanservice instead,basically:

"u guys love aot character so much right?? ty for supporting this series all this time,now dont worry i wont kill anyone,ill make ur fanfic romance happen,all fanservice for u,everyone survived and become normal out of nowhere,u happy right??" -isayama

Sep 25, 2021 8:22 PM

#1714

Offline

Aug 2020

5

Keikaku2871 said:

zainyinc said:
I found a lot of shit wrong with the chapter in my opinion but my biggest complaint would have to be the blow to Eren as a character. Went from a goat that was super interesting and empowering to me to now just a contradiction to everything I loved about his character and the themes he carried. It hurt seeing what isayama did to him and it just fathoms me that this chapter was written by the same author that built a otherwise beautiful and cohesive story. Rip Eren

Yams created the Eren we see in chapter 100 onwards as a facade, he was always the human you see in chapter 139. It is the same for Erwin who is shown to be selfless person early on but then is shown to be the most selfish person who wants to see the basement even if it means the death of everyone and humanity loses. It is same with Reiner, who is initially shown to be brother like figure, to supposedly a piece of shit who massacres humanity, to a complex human being a victim of propaganda and suffering from ptsd. Same with Zeke who is initially shown to be a cold person who would go lengths to even sacrificing his parents, to someone who actually just wanted a loving family and found one with Xavier.

Eren remains a complex and well-written character throughout the manga. That said, the primary themes he carried remains the same even in the last chapter.

OMG THANK YOU!! I could not have said it better! This fanbase needs to read this and actually educate themselves and see the real depth to this ending and story overall. Isayama's portrayal of real, complex, and vulnerably human characters and mental health issues is ASTOUNDING and I highly respect and admire him for this entire masterpiece!

Sep 25, 2021 8:41 PM

#1715

Offline

Aug 2020

5

RexGS said:
If anyone fr thought this chapter was decent after reading the extra pages then they're absolutely braindead, retarded and don't know the difference between good and bad endings. The ending was absolutely trash.

If you have an actual proper opinion and argument, then kindly share it. If you're just here to insult and disrespect anyone and everyone who does not agree with you, then kindly leave. Did you read the title of this forum? It says DISCUSSION. All opinions here should be respected and discussed. If that's not what you're here for, show yourself out and use your own social media account to rant/bïtch however you want.

Sep 25, 2021 11:15 PM

#1716

Offline

Aug 2020

5

Dildry said:
The problem is that the message of the story is bassically confirms doomer ideology

Doesnt matter what Eren did. He loses and Paradis gets destroyed and the cycle of hatred and titan powers continues

I actually dont care about the shipping fag bs but Eren absolutely achieves NOTHING in this entire manga

So he achieves nothing and top of that he gets cucked for a girl he rejected in S2 that he suddenly loves all of the sudden

This manga is clear humiliation porn and if I ever meet Isayama irl I will tell him that his entire manga is an insult to the world of literature.

Question, was there any potential alternative that Eren could've taken or done that would NOT have eventually ended in war? Whether or not the Eldians or Marleyans exist, whether or not titan powers exist, humanity will continue to wage war and fight for one reason or another. It's real life as we know it with how history repeats itself.

Two quotes that really stood out to me were said by Hanje-san and Yelena, respectively:
"Genocide is wrong!! No reasoning in the world can make it right!!"
"You just can't keep people away from violence."
These two quotes, in my opinion, conveyed the gist of the final arc as well as laying out straight deep facts about humanity irl.

Eren's decision not to follow Zeke's plan was BRILLIANT to me. As rational and humane as Zeke's merciful killing plan was, I hated it and felt a quirky brewing anger in me over it because it was so damn unfair for Eldians to remain oppressed even in that way until the end of their existence. Now, the rest of humanity didn't deserve the rumbling either, and I would in no way justify it, but I understand it.

In a way, and only because it's purely fictional, I loved Eren's choice because it was wrong, because it was selfish, because it was human, because it was so damn REFRESHING. For once, someone with all the great power and great responsibility did not act selflessly or prioritize the greater good. It showed how truly flawed, vulnerable, and burdened he was as truly just another average person. He bore so much rage, hate, pain, fear, hope, care, disappointment, responsibility, etc. He tried to let out all these feelings, to protect the people he cares about,to make himself the common enemy of all humanity so his loved ones could be the heroes, to free Ymir and get rid of the titan powers so that humanity would no longer fight over destroying it or controling it. What else or more could he have single-handedly done?

Also, Eren's feelings for Mikasa weren't sudden at all and were hinted at throughout the series, and the more he came to disapprove of the scarf and Mikasa's apparent attachment to him as family, the clearer his feelings were.

And I hope you never have the fortune of meeting Isayama, because he doesn't deserve to hear your words after the many many years he put his heart and soul into this brilliant work, believing in his fans and that they'd understand his feelings by the end of the journey. He's had enough hardship, sadness, and disappointment from people like you who chose to hate, trash, and discredit everything he worked for.

It's bad enough that he had to even APOLOGIZE for how he CHOSE to end HIS OWN story, so spare him the heartache he's already had more than enough of. I wish I could have the fortune of meeting him to tell him what a Brill job he did in dedicating all that time, effort, and energy to this masterpiece, and to apologize on behalf of all the idiots that pressured him for various reasons and made him end up rushing through the last volume or two. He deserves so much more and better.

Sep 26, 2021 1:50 AM

#1717

Offline

Feb 2016

1517

EnergizerBunny13 said:

Dildry said:
The problem is that the message of the story is bassically confirms doomer ideology

Doesnt matter what Eren did. He loses and Paradis gets destroyed and the cycle of hatred and titan powers continues

I actually dont care about the shipping fag bs but Eren absolutely achieves NOTHING in this entire manga

So he achieves nothing and top of that he gets cucked for a girl he rejected in S2 that he suddenly loves all of the sudden

This manga is clear humiliation porn and if I ever meet Isayama irl I will tell him that his entire manga is an insult to the world of literature.

Question, was there any potential alternative that Eren could've taken or done that would NOT have eventually ended in war? Whether or not the Eldians or Marleyans exist, whether or not titan powers exist, humanity will continue to wage war and fight for one reason or another. It's real life as we know it with how history repeats itself.

Two quotes that really stood out to me were said by Hanje-san and Yelena, respectively:
"Genocide is wrong!! No reasoning in the world can make it right!!"
"You just can't keep people away from violence."
These two quotes, in my opinion, conveyed the gist of the final arc as well as laying out straight deep facts about humanity irl.

Eren's decision not to follow Zeke's plan was BRILLIANT to me. As rational and humane as Zeke's merciful killing plan was, I hated it and felt a quirky brewing anger in me over it because it was so damn unfair for Eldians to remain oppressed even in that way until the end of their existence. Now, the rest of humanity didn't deserve the rumbling either, and I would in no way justify it, but I understand it.

In a way, and only because it's purely fictional, I loved Eren's choice because it was wrong, because it was selfish, because it was human, because it was so damn REFRESHING. For once, someone with all the great power and great responsibility did not act selflessly or prioritize the greater good. It showed how truly flawed, vulnerable, and burdened he was as truly just another average person. He bore so much rage, hate, pain, fear, hope, care, disappointment, responsibility, etc. He tried to let out all these feelings, to protect the people he cares about,to make himself the common enemy of all humanity so his loved ones could be the heroes, to free Ymir and get rid of the titan powers so that humanity would no longer fight over destroying it or controling it. What else or more could he have single-handedly done?

Also, Eren's feelings for Mikasa weren't sudden at all and were hinted at throughout the series, and the more he came to disapprove of the scarf and Mikasa's apparent attachment to him as family, the clearer his feelings were.

And I hope you never have the fortune of meeting Isayama, because he doesn't deserve to hear your words after the many many years he put his heart and soul into this brilliant work, believing in his fans and that they'd understand his feelings by the end of the journey. He's had enough hardship, sadness, and disappointment from people like you who chose to hate, trash, and discredit everything he worked for.

It's bad enough that he had to even APOLOGIZE for how he CHOSE to end HIS OWN story, so spare him the heartache he's already had more than enough of. I wish I could have the fortune of meeting him to tell him what a Brill job he did in dedicating all that time, effort, and energy to this masterpiece, and to apologize on behalf of all the idiots that pressured him for various reasons and made him end up rushing through the last volume or two. He deserves so much more and better.

Oh shut up you complete mark. The story is completely bankrupt in terms of actual philosophical relevance and the final arc did not make sense at all

Stop making excuses for somebody that unironically sees Marvel movies as something more than just mindless action packed fun

Besides Eren powertripping and being human the rest of the chars feel like drones

Why does Mikasa love Eren? For what? They barely ever interact

Either way the manga had an absolute atrocious ending

Annie massacred the Survey Corps elite including Levi's love interest yet they never tackle that or even bring any tension in that regard when she returns

She just casually gets unthawed and joins the "resistance"

That is ABSOLUTE ATROCIOUS AND MEME TIER WRITING LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOO HAHAHAHAHAHA

The show has two sides that commit war crimes yet tries to play a "moralist" right narrative but then switch it up and have Armin "the good guy" THANK EREN FOR CAUSING A 80% WIPING OF THE EARTH GENOCIDE

SO THE GUY THAT IS AGAINST GENOCIDE FUCKING THANKS THE GUY THAT HE WANTS TO KILL

WHAT IS THIS SHIT

AND HE THANKS EREN FOR NOT FORCING HIM TO DO THE "BAD GENOCIDE THING" BUT HIS NATION GETS NUKED IN 100 YEARS ANYWAY

WTF AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHA

In real life nations can be brought on the brink of destruction (USA 1812) but then they rebound and become a world power under COMPETENT leadership

Of course this doesnt happen in AOT and paradis because Isayama clearly already stated to us till the end of the story that all his chars are complete morons and drones (hence why paradis gets destroyed in the end)

And Reiner who has SEVERE shame and GUILT. His character last or closing scene is sniffing the letter of Historia (who is already married)

The reason why Reiner does that is because Japanese people have a very weird or perverted view of love. Its so cringe omggg

And yes I will meet Isayama and tell him he is a complete amatuer in comparison to people who actually write good fiction

DildrySep 26, 2021 1:59 AM

Sep 26, 2021 5:39 PM

#1718

Alvacka97

Offline

Jan 2016

261

Dildry said:

EnergizerBunny13 said:

Question, was there any potential alternative that Eren could've taken or done that would NOT have eventually ended in war? Whether or not the Eldians or Marleyans exist, whether or not titan powers exist, humanity will continue to wage war and fight for one reason or another. It's real life as we know it with how history repeats itself.

Two quotes that really stood out to me were said by Hanje-san and Yelena, respectively:
"Genocide is wrong!! No reasoning in the world can make it right!!"
"You just can't keep people away from violence."
These two quotes, in my opinion, conveyed the gist of the final arc as well as laying out straight deep facts about humanity irl.

Eren's decision not to follow Zeke's plan was BRILLIANT to me. As rational and humane as Zeke's merciful killing plan was, I hated it and felt a quirky brewing anger in me over it because it was so damn unfair for Eldians to remain oppressed even in that way until the end of their existence. Now, the rest of humanity didn't deserve the rumbling either, and I would in no way justify it, but I understand it.

In a way, and only because it's purely fictional, I loved Eren's choice because it was wrong, because it was selfish, because it was human, because it was so damn REFRESHING. For once, someone with all the great power and great responsibility did not act selflessly or prioritize the greater good. It showed how truly flawed, vulnerable, and burdened he was as truly just another average person. He bore so much rage, hate, pain, fear, hope, care, disappointment, responsibility, etc. He tried to let out all these feelings, to protect the people he cares about,to make himself the common enemy of all humanity so his loved ones could be the heroes, to free Ymir and get rid of the titan powers so that humanity would no longer fight over destroying it or controling it. What else or more could he have single-handedly done?

Also, Eren's feelings for Mikasa weren't sudden at all and were hinted at throughout the series, and the more he came to disapprove of the scarf and Mikasa's apparent attachment to him as family, the clearer his feelings were.

And I hope you never have the fortune of meeting Isayama, because he doesn't deserve to hear your words after the many many years he put his heart and soul into this brilliant work, believing in his fans and that they'd understand his feelings by the end of the journey. He's had enough hardship, sadness, and disappointment from people like you who chose to hate, trash, and discredit everything he worked for.

It's bad enough that he had to even APOLOGIZE for how he CHOSE to end HIS OWN story, so spare him the heartache he's already had more than enough of. I wish I could have the fortune of meeting him to tell him what a Brill job he did in dedicating all that time, effort, and energy to this masterpiece, and to apologize on behalf of all the idiots that pressured him for various reasons and made him end up rushing through the last volume or two. He deserves so much more and better.

Oh shut up you complete mark. The story is completely bankrupt in terms of actual philosophical relevance and the final arc did not make sense at all

Stop making excuses for somebody that unironically sees Marvel movies as something more than just mindless action packed fun

Besides Eren powertripping and being human the rest of the chars feel like drones

Why does Mikasa love Eren? For what? They barely ever interact

Either way the manga had an absolute atrocious ending

Annie massacred the Survey Corps elite including Levi's love interest yet they never tackle that or even bring any tension in that regard when she returns

She just casually gets unthawed and joins the "resistance"

That is ABSOLUTE ATROCIOUS AND MEME TIER WRITING LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOO HAHAHAHAHAHA

The show has two sides that commit war crimes yet tries to play a "moralist" right narrative but then switch it up and have Armin "the good guy" THANK EREN FOR CAUSING A 80% WIPING OF THE EARTH GENOCIDE

SO THE GUY THAT IS AGAINST GENOCIDE FUCKING THANKS THE GUY THAT HE WANTS TO KILL

WHAT IS THIS SHIT

AND HE THANKS EREN FOR NOT FORCING HIM TO DO THE "BAD GENOCIDE THING" BUT HIS NATION GETS NUKED IN 100 YEARS ANYWAY

WTF AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHA

In real life nations can be brought on the brink of destruction (USA 1812) but then they rebound and become a world power under COMPETENT leadership

Of course this doesnt happen in AOT and paradis because Isayama clearly already stated to us till the end of the story that all his chars are complete morons and drones (hence why paradis gets destroyed in the end)

And Reiner who has SEVERE shame and GUILT. His character last or closing scene is sniffing the letter of Historia (who is already married)

The reason why Reiner does that is because Japanese people have a very weird or perverted view of love. Its so cringe omggg

And yes I will meet Isayama and tell him he is a complete amatuer in comparison to people who actually write good fiction

You can barely write English in a decent manner and you expect us to believe you'd be able to say a single sentence in Japanese to Yams if you ever meet him?
Hilarious xD
Also, i don't recall him ever saying marvel movies are great works of art or something. Do you have any source for that?
Also you didn't refute any of his points, you just went full retard, insulting and ranting, going all caps and oversimplifying stuff at your convenience.

Sep 27, 2021 2:08 AM

#1719

Offline

Feb 2016

1517

Alvacka97 said:

Dildry said:

EnergizerBunny13 said:

Dildry said:
The problem is that the message of the story is bassically confirms doomer ideology

Doesnt matter what Eren did. He loses and Paradis gets destroyed and the cycle of hatred and titan powers continues

I actually dont care about the shipping fag bs but Eren absolutely achieves NOTHING in this entire manga

So he achieves nothing and top of that he gets cucked for a girl he rejected in S2 that he suddenly loves all of the sudden

This manga is clear humiliation porn and if I ever meet Isayama irl I will tell him that his entire manga is an insult to the world of literature.

Question, was there any potential alternative that Eren could've taken or done that would NOT have eventually ended in war? Whether or not the Eldians or Marleyans exist, whether or not titan powers exist, humanity will continue to wage war and fight for one reason or another. It's real life as we know it with how history repeats itself.

Two quotes that really stood out to me were said by Hanje-san and Yelena, respectively:
"Genocide is wrong!! No reasoning in the world can make it right!!"
"You just can't keep people away from violence."
These two quotes, in my opinion, conveyed the gist of the final arc as well as laying out straight deep facts about humanity irl.

Eren's decision not to follow Zeke's plan was BRILLIANT to me. As rational and humane as Zeke's merciful killing plan was, I hated it and felt a quirky brewing anger in me over it because it was so damn unfair for Eldians to remain oppressed even in that way until the end of their existence. Now, the rest of humanity didn't deserve the rumbling either, and I would in no way justify it, but I understand it.

In a way, and only because it's purely fictional, I loved Eren's choice because it was wrong, because it was selfish, because it was human, because it was so damn REFRESHING. For once, someone with all the great power and great responsibility did not act selflessly or prioritize the greater good. It showed how truly flawed, vulnerable, and burdened he was as truly just another average person. He bore so much rage, hate, pain, fear, hope, care, disappointment, responsibility, etc. He tried to let out all these feelings, to protect the people he cares about,to make himself the common enemy of all humanity so his loved ones could be the heroes, to free Ymir and get rid of the titan powers so that humanity would no longer fight over destroying it or controling it. What else or more could he have single-handedly done?

Also, Eren's feelings for Mikasa weren't sudden at all and were hinted at throughout the series, and the more he came to disapprove of the scarf and Mikasa's apparent attachment to him as family, the clearer his feelings were.

And I hope you never have the fortune of meeting Isayama, because he doesn't deserve to hear your words after the many many years he put his heart and soul into this brilliant work, believing in his fans and that they'd understand his feelings by the end of the journey. He's had enough hardship, sadness, and disappointment from people like you who chose to hate, trash, and discredit everything he worked for.

It's bad enough that he had to even APOLOGIZE for how he CHOSE to end HIS OWN story, so spare him the heartache he's already had more than enough of. I wish I could have the fortune of meeting him to tell him what a Brill job he did in dedicating all that time, effort, and energy to this masterpiece, and to apologize on behalf of all the idiots that pressured him for various reasons and made him end up rushing through the last volume or two. He deserves so much more and better.

Oh shut up you complete mark. The story is completely bankrupt in terms of actual philosophical relevance and the final arc did not make sense at all

Stop making excuses for somebody that unironically sees Marvel movies as something more than just mindless action packed fun

Besides Eren powertripping and being human the rest of the chars feel like drones

Why does Mikasa love Eren? For what? They barely ever interact

Either way the manga had an absolute atrocious ending

Annie massacred the Survey Corps elite including Levi's love interest yet they never tackle that or even bring any tension in that regard when she returns

She just casually gets unthawed and joins the "resistance"

That is ABSOLUTE ATROCIOUS AND MEME TIER WRITING LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOO HAHAHAHAHAHA

The show has two sides that commit war crimes yet tries to play a "moralist" right narrative but then switch it up and have Armin "the good guy" THANK EREN FOR CAUSING A 80% WIPING OF THE EARTH GENOCIDE

SO THE GUY THAT IS AGAINST GENOCIDE FUCKING THANKS THE GUY THAT HE WANTS TO KILL

WHAT IS THIS SHIT

AND HE THANKS EREN FOR NOT FORCING HIM TO DO THE "BAD GENOCIDE THING" BUT HIS NATION GETS NUKED IN 100 YEARS ANYWAY

WTF AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHA

In real life nations can be brought on the brink of destruction (USA 1812) but then they rebound and become a world power under COMPETENT leadership

Of course this doesnt happen in AOT and paradis because Isayama clearly already stated to us till the end of the story that all his chars are complete morons and drones (hence why paradis gets destroyed in the end)

And Reiner who has SEVERE shame and GUILT. His character last or closing scene is sniffing the letter of Historia (who is already married)

The reason why Reiner does that is because Japanese people have a very weird or perverted view of love. Its so cringe omggg

And yes I will meet Isayama and tell him he is a complete amatuer in comparison to people who actually write good fiction

You can barely write English in a decent manner and you expect us to believe you'd be able to say a single sentence in Japanese to Yams if you ever meet him?
Hilarious xD
Also, i don't recall him ever saying marvel movies are great works of art or something. Do you have any source for that?
Also you didn't refute any of his points, you just went full retard, insulting and ranting, going all caps and oversimplifying stuff at your convenience.

You can clearly read it Guerrero-chan so stop being a nerd and attacking with ad-hominem and stop sucking off yams who cant write a good story

The manga fell of from rank top 20 to 80 its pretty much universally seen as bad or in bad taste

You cant attack the core of my arguments so I wont take you serious. Seriously just dont talk little puta

Sep 28, 2021 5:23 AM

#1720

electromagneto

Offline

Dec 2017

550

Dildry said:

Alvacka97 said:

Dildry said:

EnergizerBunny13 said:

Dildry said:
The problem is that the message of the story is bassically confirms doomer ideology

Doesnt matter what Eren did. He loses and Paradis gets destroyed and the cycle of hatred and titan powers continues

I actually dont care about the shipping fag bs but Eren absolutely achieves NOTHING in this entire manga

So he achieves nothing and top of that he gets cucked for a girl he rejected in S2 that he suddenly loves all of the sudden

This manga is clear humiliation porn and if I ever meet Isayama irl I will tell him that his entire manga is an insult to the world of literature.

Question, was there any potential alternative that Eren could've taken or done that would NOT have eventually ended in war? Whether or not the Eldians or Marleyans exist, whether or not titan powers exist, humanity will continue to wage war and fight for one reason or another. It's real life as we know it with how history repeats itself.

Two quotes that really stood out to me were said by Hanje-san and Yelena, respectively:
"Genocide is wrong!! No reasoning in the world can make it right!!"
"You just can't keep people away from violence."
These two quotes, in my opinion, conveyed the gist of the final arc as well as laying out straight deep facts about humanity irl.

Eren's decision not to follow Zeke's plan was BRILLIANT to me. As rational and humane as Zeke's merciful killing plan was, I hated it and felt a quirky brewing anger in me over it because it was so damn unfair for Eldians to remain oppressed even in that way until the end of their existence. Now, the rest of humanity didn't deserve the rumbling either, and I would in no way justify it, but I understand it.

In a way, and only because it's purely fictional, I loved Eren's choice because it was wrong, because it was selfish, because it was human, because it was so damn REFRESHING. For once, someone with all the great power and great responsibility did not act selflessly or prioritize the greater good. It showed how truly flawed, vulnerable, and burdened he was as truly just another average person. He bore so much rage, hate, pain, fear, hope, care, disappointment, responsibility, etc. He tried to let out all these feelings, to protect the people he cares about,to make himself the common enemy of all humanity so his loved ones could be the heroes, to free Ymir and get rid of the titan powers so that humanity would no longer fight over destroying it or controling it. What else or more could he have single-handedly done?

Also, Eren's feelings for Mikasa weren't sudden at all and were hinted at throughout the series, and the more he came to disapprove of the scarf and Mikasa's apparent attachment to him as family, the clearer his feelings were.

And I hope you never have the fortune of meeting Isayama, because he doesn't deserve to hear your words after the many many years he put his heart and soul into this brilliant work, believing in his fans and that they'd understand his feelings by the end of the journey. He's had enough hardship, sadness, and disappointment from people like you who chose to hate, trash, and discredit everything he worked for.

It's bad enough that he had to even APOLOGIZE for how he CHOSE to end HIS OWN story, so spare him the heartache he's already had more than enough of. I wish I could have the fortune of meeting him to tell him what a Brill job he did in dedicating all that time, effort, and energy to this masterpiece, and to apologize on behalf of all the idiots that pressured him for various reasons and made him end up rushing through the last volume or two. He deserves so much more and better.

Oh shut up you complete mark. The story is completely bankrupt in terms of actual philosophical relevance and the final arc did not make sense at all

Stop making excuses for somebody that unironically sees Marvel movies as something more than just mindless action packed fun

Besides Eren powertripping and being human the rest of the chars feel like drones

Why does Mikasa love Eren? For what? They barely ever interact

Either way the manga had an absolute atrocious ending

Annie massacred the Survey Corps elite including Levi's love interest yet they never tackle that or even bring any tension in that regard when she returns

She just casually gets unthawed and joins the "resistance"

That is ABSOLUTE ATROCIOUS AND MEME TIER WRITING LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOO HAHAHAHAHAHA

The show has two sides that commit war crimes yet tries to play a "moralist" right narrative but then switch it up and have Armin "the good guy" THANK EREN FOR CAUSING A 80% WIPING OF THE EARTH GENOCIDE

SO THE GUY THAT IS AGAINST GENOCIDE FUCKING THANKS THE GUY THAT HE WANTS TO KILL

WHAT IS THIS SHIT

AND HE THANKS EREN FOR NOT FORCING HIM TO DO THE "BAD GENOCIDE THING" BUT HIS NATION GETS NUKED IN 100 YEARS ANYWAY

WTF AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHA

In real life nations can be brought on the brink of destruction (USA 1812) but then they rebound and become a world power under COMPETENT leadership

Of course this doesnt happen in AOT and paradis because Isayama clearly already stated to us till the end of the story that all his chars are complete morons and drones (hence why paradis gets destroyed in the end)

And Reiner who has SEVERE shame and GUILT. His character last or closing scene is sniffing the letter of Historia (who is already married)

The reason why Reiner does that is because Japanese people have a very weird or perverted view of love. Its so cringe omggg

And yes I will meet Isayama and tell him he is a complete amatuer in comparison to people who actually write good fiction

You can barely write English in a decent manner and you expect us to believe you'd be able to say a single sentence in Japanese to Yams if you ever meet him?
Hilarious xD
Also, i don't recall him ever saying marvel movies are great works of art or something. Do you have any source for that?
Also you didn't refute any of his points, you just went full retard, insulting and ranting, going all caps and oversimplifying stuff at your convenience.

The manga fell of from rank top 20 to 80 its pretty much universally seen as bad or in bad taste

MAL score doesn't really say much—if at all— about the quality of the story, especially considering some butthurt idiots from Reddit might have stormed it with 1/10 score as some sort of revenge for the author.

If you want a more accurate picture of how the majority of people receive the ending, then wait until the anime finished airing so the story could reach a much wider viewership.

I just realized that all of my favorite characters, beside being stunningly beautiful, also happen to be exceptionally skilled murder machines. \('-')/

I'm level

on mal-badges. View my badges.

Sep 28, 2021 6:02 AM

#1721

Offline

Feb 2016

1517

electromagneto said:

Dildry said:

Alvacka97 said:

Dildry said:

EnergizerBunny13 said:

Dildry said:
The problem is that the message of the story is bassically confirms doomer ideology

Doesnt matter what Eren did. He loses and Paradis gets destroyed and the cycle of hatred and titan powers continues

I actually dont care about the shipping fag bs but Eren absolutely achieves NOTHING in this entire manga

So he achieves nothing and top of that he gets cucked for a girl he rejected in S2 that he suddenly loves all of the sudden

This manga is clear humiliation porn and if I ever meet Isayama irl I will tell him that his entire manga is an insult to the world of literature.

Question, was there any potential alternative that Eren could've taken or done that would NOT have eventually ended in war? Whether or not the Eldians or Marleyans exist, whether or not titan powers exist, humanity will continue to wage war and fight for one reason or another. It's real life as we know it with how history repeats itself.

Two quotes that really stood out to me were said by Hanje-san and Yelena, respectively:
"Genocide is wrong!! No reasoning in the world can make it right!!"
"You just can't keep people away from violence."
These two quotes, in my opinion, conveyed the gist of the final arc as well as laying out straight deep facts about humanity irl.

Eren's decision not to follow Zeke's plan was BRILLIANT to me. As rational and humane as Zeke's merciful killing plan was, I hated it and felt a quirky brewing anger in me over it because it was so damn unfair for Eldians to remain oppressed even in that way until the end of their existence. Now, the rest of humanity didn't deserve the rumbling either, and I would in no way justify it, but I understand it.

In a way, and only because it's purely fictional, I loved Eren's choice because it was wrong, because it was selfish, because it was human, because it was so damn REFRESHING. For once, someone with all the great power and great responsibility did not act selflessly or prioritize the greater good. It showed how truly flawed, vulnerable, and burdened he was as truly just another average person. He bore so much rage, hate, pain, fear, hope, care, disappointment, responsibility, etc. He tried to let out all these feelings, to protect the people he cares about,to make himself the common enemy of all humanity so his loved ones could be the heroes, to free Ymir and get rid of the titan powers so that humanity would no longer fight over destroying it or controling it. What else or more could he have single-handedly done?

Also, Eren's feelings for Mikasa weren't sudden at all and were hinted at throughout the series, and the more he came to disapprove of the scarf and Mikasa's apparent attachment to him as family, the clearer his feelings were.

And I hope you never have the fortune of meeting Isayama, because he doesn't deserve to hear your words after the many many years he put his heart and soul into this brilliant work, believing in his fans and that they'd understand his feelings by the end of the journey. He's had enough hardship, sadness, and disappointment from people like you who chose to hate, trash, and discredit everything he worked for.

It's bad enough that he had to even APOLOGIZE for how he CHOSE to end HIS OWN story, so spare him the heartache he's already had more than enough of. I wish I could have the fortune of meeting him to tell him what a Brill job he did in dedicating all that time, effort, and energy to this masterpiece, and to apologize on behalf of all the idiots that pressured him for various reasons and made him end up rushing through the last volume or two. He deserves so much more and better.

Oh shut up you complete mark. The story is completely bankrupt in terms of actual philosophical relevance and the final arc did not make sense at all

Stop making excuses for somebody that unironically sees Marvel movies as something more than just mindless action packed fun

Besides Eren powertripping and being human the rest of the chars feel like drones

Why does Mikasa love Eren? For what? They barely ever interact

Either way the manga had an absolute atrocious ending

Annie massacred the Survey Corps elite including Levi's love interest yet they never tackle that or even bring any tension in that regard when she returns

She just casually gets unthawed and joins the "resistance"

That is ABSOLUTE ATROCIOUS AND MEME TIER WRITING LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOO HAHAHAHAHAHA

The show has two sides that commit war crimes yet tries to play a "moralist" right narrative but then switch it up and have Armin "the good guy" THANK EREN FOR CAUSING A 80% WIPING OF THE EARTH GENOCIDE

SO THE GUY THAT IS AGAINST GENOCIDE FUCKING THANKS THE GUY THAT HE WANTS TO KILL

WHAT IS THIS SHIT

AND HE THANKS EREN FOR NOT FORCING HIM TO DO THE "BAD GENOCIDE THING" BUT HIS NATION GETS NUKED IN 100 YEARS ANYWAY

WTF AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHA

In real life nations can be brought on the brink of destruction (USA 1812) but then they rebound and become a world power under COMPETENT leadership

Of course this doesnt happen in AOT and paradis because Isayama clearly already stated to us till the end of the story that all his chars are complete morons and drones (hence why paradis gets destroyed in the end)

And Reiner who has SEVERE shame and GUILT. His character last or closing scene is sniffing the letter of Historia (who is already married)

The reason why Reiner does that is because Japanese people have a very weird or perverted view of love. Its so cringe omggg

And yes I will meet Isayama and tell him he is a complete amatuer in comparison to people who actually write good fiction

You can barely write English in a decent manner and you expect us to believe you'd be able to say a single sentence in Japanese to Yams if you ever meet him?
Hilarious xD
Also, i don't recall him ever saying marvel movies are great works of art or something. Do you have any source for that?
Also you didn't refute any of his points, you just went full retard, insulting and ranting, going all caps and oversimplifying stuff at your convenience.

The manga fell of from rank top 20 to 80 its pretty much universally seen as bad or in bad taste

MAL score doesn't really say much—if at all— about the quality of the story, especially considering some butthurt idiots from Reddit might have stormed it with 1/10 score as some sort of revenge for the author.

If you want a more accurate picture of how the majority of people receive the ending, then wait until the anime finished airing so the story could reach a much wider viewership.

All my irl normie friends are not on Reddit and they think its atrocious aswell

You cant even argue why its good and will hope that most people will eat it up. A lot of people eat up Game of Thrones Season 6-7 but these two seasons are still horrible pieces of work that make no sense

Sep 28, 2021 12:08 PM

#1722

Alvacka97

Offline

Jan 2016

261

Dildry said:

Alvacka97 said:

Dildry said:

EnergizerBunny13 said:

Dildry said:
The problem is that the message of the story is bassically confirms doomer ideology

Doesnt matter what Eren did. He loses and Paradis gets destroyed and the cycle of hatred and titan powers continues

I actually dont care about the shipping fag bs but Eren absolutely achieves NOTHING in this entire manga

So he achieves nothing and top of that he gets cucked for a girl he rejected in S2 that he suddenly loves all of the sudden

This manga is clear humiliation porn and if I ever meet Isayama irl I will tell him that his entire manga is an insult to the world of literature.

Question, was there any potential alternative that Eren could've taken or done that would NOT have eventually ended in war? Whether or not the Eldians or Marleyans exist, whether or not titan powers exist, humanity will continue to wage war and fight for one reason or another. It's real life as we know it with how history repeats itself.

Two quotes that really stood out to me were said by Hanje-san and Yelena, respectively:
"Genocide is wrong!! No reasoning in the world can make it right!!"
"You just can't keep people away from violence."
These two quotes, in my opinion, conveyed the gist of the final arc as well as laying out straight deep facts about humanity irl.

Eren's decision not to follow Zeke's plan was BRILLIANT to me. As rational and humane as Zeke's merciful killing plan was, I hated it and felt a quirky brewing anger in me over it because it was so damn unfair for Eldians to remain oppressed even in that way until the end of their existence. Now, the rest of humanity didn't deserve the rumbling either, and I would in no way justify it, but I understand it.

In a way, and only because it's purely fictional, I loved Eren's choice because it was wrong, because it was selfish, because it was human, because it was so damn REFRESHING. For once, someone with all the great power and great responsibility did not act selflessly or prioritize the greater good. It showed how truly flawed, vulnerable, and burdened he was as truly just another average person. He bore so much rage, hate, pain, fear, hope, care, disappointment, responsibility, etc. He tried to let out all these feelings, to protect the people he cares about,to make himself the common enemy of all humanity so his loved ones could be the heroes, to free Ymir and get rid of the titan powers so that humanity would no longer fight over destroying it or controling it. What else or more could he have single-handedly done?

Also, Eren's feelings for Mikasa weren't sudden at all and were hinted at throughout the series, and the more he came to disapprove of the scarf and Mikasa's apparent attachment to him as family, the clearer his feelings were.

And I hope you never have the fortune of meeting Isayama, because he doesn't deserve to hear your words after the many many years he put his heart and soul into this brilliant work, believing in his fans and that they'd understand his feelings by the end of the journey. He's had enough hardship, sadness, and disappointment from people like you who chose to hate, trash, and discredit everything he worked for.

It's bad enough that he had to even APOLOGIZE for how he CHOSE to end HIS OWN story, so spare him the heartache he's already had more than enough of. I wish I could have the fortune of meeting him to tell him what a Brill job he did in dedicating all that time, effort, and energy to this masterpiece, and to apologize on behalf of all the idiots that pressured him for various reasons and made him end up rushing through the last volume or two. He deserves so much more and better.

Oh shut up you complete mark. The story is completely bankrupt in terms of actual philosophical relevance and the final arc did not make sense at all

Stop making excuses for somebody that unironically sees Marvel movies as something more than just mindless action packed fun

Besides Eren powertripping and being human the rest of the chars feel like drones

Why does Mikasa love Eren? For what? They barely ever interact

Either way the manga had an absolute atrocious ending

Annie massacred the Survey Corps elite including Levi's love interest yet they never tackle that or even bring any tension in that regard when she returns

She just casually gets unthawed and joins the "resistance"

That is ABSOLUTE ATROCIOUS AND MEME TIER WRITING LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOO HAHAHAHAHAHA

The show has two sides that commit war crimes yet tries to play a "moralist" right narrative but then switch it up and have Armin "the good guy" THANK EREN FOR CAUSING A 80% WIPING OF THE EARTH GENOCIDE

SO THE GUY THAT IS AGAINST GENOCIDE FUCKING THANKS THE GUY THAT HE WANTS TO KILL

WHAT IS THIS SHIT

AND HE THANKS EREN FOR NOT FORCING HIM TO DO THE "BAD GENOCIDE THING" BUT HIS NATION GETS NUKED IN 100 YEARS ANYWAY

WTF AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHA

In real life nations can be brought on the brink of destruction (USA 1812) but then they rebound and become a world power under COMPETENT leadership

Of course this doesnt happen in AOT and paradis because Isayama clearly already stated to us till the end of the story that all his chars are complete morons and drones (hence why paradis gets destroyed in the end)

And Reiner who has SEVERE shame and GUILT. His character last or closing scene is sniffing the letter of Historia (who is already married)

The reason why Reiner does that is because Japanese people have a very weird or perverted view of love. Its so cringe omggg

And yes I will meet Isayama and tell him he is a complete amatuer in comparison to people who actually write good fiction

You can barely write English in a decent manner and you expect us to believe you'd be able to say a single sentence in Japanese to Yams if you ever meet him?
Hilarious xD
Also, i don't recall him ever saying marvel movies are great works of art or something. Do you have any source for that?
Also you didn't refute any of his points, you just went full retard, insulting and ranting, going all caps and oversimplifying stuff at your convenience.

You can clearly read it Guerrero-chan so stop being a nerd and attacking with ad-hominem and stop sucking off yams who cant write a good story

The manga fell of from rank top 20 to 80 its pretty much universally seen as bad or in bad taste

You cant attack the core of my arguments so I wont take you serious. Seriously just dont talk little puta

"The manga fell of from rank top 20 to 80 its pretty much universally seen as bad or in bad taste"

What kind of backwards ass logic is that? Are you for real? xD
You wanna know what other manga are not on the top 20, some not even on the top 50?
Death Note, Chainsaw Man, Akira, Evangelion, Pluto, OPM, Konosuba, Rurouni Kenshin, Hajime no Ippo, Welcome to the NHK, EVEN THE FUCKIN' LEGEND OF THE GALACTIC HEROES NOVELS.
Are you seriously trying to say that all these manga are universally seen as bad even though you've offered no proof, and anywhere you go looking for opinions on them, you'll find mostly praise? And you actually think, even for a second, that an ad-populum fallacy proves you point?

PD: You're still not giving me any proof that Yams ever treated marvel movies as great works of art, so that's another false claim from you. Just do yourself a favor and admit you don't know that the hell you're talking about, estas quedando como un pelotudo.

Alvacka97Sep 28, 2021 12:28 PM

Sep 28, 2021 2:09 PM

#1723

Offline

Feb 2016

1517

Alvacka97 said:

Dildry said:

Alvacka97 said:

Dildry said:

EnergizerBunny13 said:

Dildry said:
The problem is that the message of the story is bassically confirms doomer ideology

Doesnt matter what Eren did. He loses and Paradis gets destroyed and the cycle of hatred and titan powers continues

I actually dont care about the shipping fag bs but Eren absolutely achieves NOTHING in this entire manga

So he achieves nothing and top of that he gets cucked for a girl he rejected in S2 that he suddenly loves all of the sudden

This manga is clear humiliation porn and if I ever meet Isayama irl I will tell him that his entire manga is an insult to the world of literature.

Question, was there any potential alternative that Eren could've taken or done that would NOT have eventually ended in war? Whether or not the Eldians or Marleyans exist, whether or not titan powers exist, humanity will continue to wage war and fight for one reason or another. It's real life as we know it with how history repeats itself.

Two quotes that really stood out to me were said by Hanje-san and Yelena, respectively:
"Genocide is wrong!! No reasoning in the world can make it right!!"
"You just can't keep people away from violence."
These two quotes, in my opinion, conveyed the gist of the final arc as well as laying out straight deep facts about humanity irl.

Eren's decision not to follow Zeke's plan was BRILLIANT to me. As rational and humane as Zeke's merciful killing plan was, I hated it and felt a quirky brewing anger in me over it because it was so damn unfair for Eldians to remain oppressed even in that way until the end of their existence. Now, the rest of humanity didn't deserve the rumbling either, and I would in no way justify it, but I understand it.

In a way, and only because it's purely fictional, I loved Eren's choice because it was wrong, because it was selfish, because it was human, because it was so damn REFRESHING. For once, someone with all the great power and great responsibility did not act selflessly or prioritize the greater good. It showed how truly flawed, vulnerable, and burdened he was as truly just another average person. He bore so much rage, hate, pain, fear, hope, care, disappointment, responsibility, etc. He tried to let out all these feelings, to protect the people he cares about,to make himself the common enemy of all humanity so his loved ones could be the heroes, to free Ymir and get rid of the titan powers so that humanity would no longer fight over destroying it or controling it. What else or more could he have single-handedly done?

Also, Eren's feelings for Mikasa weren't sudden at all and were hinted at throughout the series, and the more he came to disapprove of the scarf and Mikasa's apparent attachment to him as family, the clearer his feelings were.

And I hope you never have the fortune of meeting Isayama, because he doesn't deserve to hear your words after the many many years he put his heart and soul into this brilliant work, believing in his fans and that they'd understand his feelings by the end of the journey. He's had enough hardship, sadness, and disappointment from people like you who chose to hate, trash, and discredit everything he worked for.

It's bad enough that he had to even APOLOGIZE for how he CHOSE to end HIS OWN story, so spare him the heartache he's already had more than enough of. I wish I could have the fortune of meeting him to tell him what a Brill job he did in dedicating all that time, effort, and energy to this masterpiece, and to apologize on behalf of all the idiots that pressured him for various reasons and made him end up rushing through the last volume or two. He deserves so much more and better.

Oh shut up you complete mark. The story is completely bankrupt in terms of actual philosophical relevance and the final arc did not make sense at all

Stop making excuses for somebody that unironically sees Marvel movies as something more than just mindless action packed fun

Besides Eren powertripping and being human the rest of the chars feel like drones

Why does Mikasa love Eren? For what? They barely ever interact

Either way the manga had an absolute atrocious ending

Annie massacred the Survey Corps elite including Levi's love interest yet they never tackle that or even bring any tension in that regard when she returns

She just casually gets unthawed and joins the "resistance"

That is ABSOLUTE ATROCIOUS AND MEME TIER WRITING LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOO HAHAHAHAHAHA

The show has two sides that commit war crimes yet tries to play a "moralist" right narrative but then switch it up and have Armin "the good guy" THANK EREN FOR CAUSING A 80% WIPING OF THE EARTH GENOCIDE

SO THE GUY THAT IS AGAINST GENOCIDE FUCKING THANKS THE GUY THAT HE WANTS TO KILL

WHAT IS THIS SHIT

AND HE THANKS EREN FOR NOT FORCING HIM TO DO THE "BAD GENOCIDE THING" BUT HIS NATION GETS NUKED IN 100 YEARS ANYWAY

WTF AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHA

In real life nations can be brought on the brink of destruction (USA 1812) but then they rebound and become a world power under COMPETENT leadership

Of course this doesnt happen in AOT and paradis because Isayama clearly already stated to us till the end of the story that all his chars are complete morons and drones (hence why paradis gets destroyed in the end)

And Reiner who has SEVERE shame and GUILT. His character last or closing scene is sniffing the letter of Historia (who is already married)

The reason why Reiner does that is because Japanese people have a very weird or perverted view of love. Its so cringe omggg

And yes I will meet Isayama and tell him he is a complete amatuer in comparison to people who actually write good fiction

You can barely write English in a decent manner and you expect us to believe you'd be able to say a single sentence in Japanese to Yams if you ever meet him?
Hilarious xD
Also, i don't recall him ever saying marvel movies are great works of art or something. Do you have any source for that?
Also you didn't refute any of his points, you just went full retard, insulting and ranting, going all caps and oversimplifying stuff at your convenience.

You can clearly read it Guerrero-chan so stop being a nerd and attacking with ad-hominem and stop sucking off yams who cant write a good story

The manga fell of from rank top 20 to 80 its pretty much universally seen as bad or in bad taste

You cant attack the core of my arguments so I wont take you serious. Seriously just dont talk little puta

"The manga fell of from rank top 20 to 80 its pretty much universally seen as bad or in bad taste"

What kind of backwards ass logic is that? Are you for real? xD
You wanna know what other manga are not on the top 20, some not even on the top 50?
Death Note, Chainsaw Man, Akira, Evangelion, Pluto, OPM, Konosuba, Rurouni Kenshin, Hajime no Ippo, Welcome to the NHK, EVEN THE FUCKIN' LEGEND OF THE GALACTIC HEROES NOVELS.
Are you seriously trying to say that all these manga are universally seen as bad even though you've offered no proof, and anywhere you go looking for opinions on them, you'll find mostly praise? And you actually think, even for a second, that an ad-populum fallacy proves you point?

PD: You're still not giving me any proof that Yams ever treated marvel movies as great works of art, so that's another false claim from you. Just do yourself a favor and admit you don't know that the hell you're talking about, estas quedando como un pelotudo.

https://imgur.com/5VcbNJG

"Ad-populum fallacy" is a fancy word for ignoring critique or public criteria

Lets ignore that then and just look at the image above how he wanted the ending to be similiar to Guardians of the Galaxy (which is a marvel movie)

So he holds these movies in high enough regard for it to have influence on his work

Just argue the above points I made how like Armin tip toes from aprecciating genocide to hating it (since he in a very cringe manner thanks eren for it)

or the whole Annie massacring the Scouts but then being able to join the Cringevengers team

Argue then against that instead of using ad-hominem fallacies like you started

Argue against the complete lack of a concise moral compass from any of the characters in the last chapters of the manga

Dont waste my time with your psuedo intellectual dick measuring bullcrap just get to the point why you think this manga ending isnt completely flubbed and betrays the themes this manga was established on

Sep 28, 2021 7:20 PM

#1724

Alvacka97

Offline

Jan 2016

261

Dildry said:

Alvacka97 said:

Dildry said:

Alvacka97 said:

Dildry said:

EnergizerBunny13 said:

Dildry said:
The problem is that the message of the story is bassically confirms doomer ideology

Doesnt matter what Eren did. He loses and Paradis gets destroyed and the cycle of hatred and titan powers continues

I actually dont care about the shipping fag bs but Eren absolutely achieves NOTHING in this entire manga

So he achieves nothing and top of that he gets cucked for a girl he rejected in S2 that he suddenly loves all of the sudden

This manga is clear humiliation porn and if I ever meet Isayama irl I will tell him that his entire manga is an insult to the world of literature.

Question, was there any potential alternative that Eren could've taken or done that would NOT have eventually ended in war? Whether or not the Eldians or Marleyans exist, whether or not titan powers exist, humanity will continue to wage war and fight for one reason or another. It's real life as we know it with how history repeats itself.

Two quotes that really stood out to me were said by Hanje-san and Yelena, respectively:
"Genocide is wrong!! No reasoning in the world can make it right!!"
"You just can't keep people away from violence."
These two quotes, in my opinion, conveyed the gist of the final arc as well as laying out straight deep facts about humanity irl.

Eren's decision not to follow Zeke's plan was BRILLIANT to me. As rational and humane as Zeke's merciful killing plan was, I hated it and felt a quirky brewing anger in me over it because it was so damn unfair for Eldians to remain oppressed even in that way until the end of their existence. Now, the rest of humanity didn't deserve the rumbling either, and I would in no way justify it, but I understand it.

In a way, and only because it's purely fictional, I loved Eren's choice because it was wrong, because it was selfish, because it was human, because it was so damn REFRESHING. For once, someone with all the great power and great responsibility did not act selflessly or prioritize the greater good. It showed how truly flawed, vulnerable, and burdened he was as truly just another average person. He bore so much rage, hate, pain, fear, hope, care, disappointment, responsibility, etc. He tried to let out all these feelings, to protect the people he cares about,to make himself the common enemy of all humanity so his loved ones could be the heroes, to free Ymir and get rid of the titan powers so that humanity would no longer fight over destroying it or controling it. What else or more could he have single-handedly done?

Also, Eren's feelings for Mikasa weren't sudden at all and were hinted at throughout the series, and the more he came to disapprove of the scarf and Mikasa's apparent attachment to him as family, the clearer his feelings were.

And I hope you never have the fortune of meeting Isayama, because he doesn't deserve to hear your words after the many many years he put his heart and soul into this brilliant work, believing in his fans and that they'd understand his feelings by the end of the journey. He's had enough hardship, sadness, and disappointment from people like you who chose to hate, trash, and discredit everything he worked for.

It's bad enough that he had to even APOLOGIZE for how he CHOSE to end HIS OWN story, so spare him the heartache he's already had more than enough of. I wish I could have the fortune of meeting him to tell him what a Brill job he did in dedicating all that time, effort, and energy to this masterpiece, and to apologize on behalf of all the idiots that pressured him for various reasons and made him end up rushing through the last volume or two. He deserves so much more and better.

Oh shut up you complete mark. The story is completely bankrupt in terms of actual philosophical relevance and the final arc did not make sense at all

Stop making excuses for somebody that unironically sees Marvel movies as something more than just mindless action packed fun

Besides Eren powertripping and being human the rest of the chars feel like drones

Why does Mikasa love Eren? For what? They barely ever interact

Either way the manga had an absolute atrocious ending

Annie massacred the Survey Corps elite including Levi's love interest yet they never tackle that or even bring any tension in that regard when she returns

She just casually gets unthawed and joins the "resistance"

That is ABSOLUTE ATROCIOUS AND MEME TIER WRITING LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOO HAHAHAHAHAHA

The show has two sides that commit war crimes yet tries to play a "moralist" right narrative but then switch it up and have Armin "the good guy" THANK EREN FOR CAUSING A 80% WIPING OF THE EARTH GENOCIDE

SO THE GUY THAT IS AGAINST GENOCIDE FUCKING THANKS THE GUY THAT HE WANTS TO KILL

WHAT IS THIS SHIT

AND HE THANKS EREN FOR NOT FORCING HIM TO DO THE "BAD GENOCIDE THING" BUT HIS NATION GETS NUKED IN 100 YEARS ANYWAY

WTF AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHA

In real life nations can be brought on the brink of destruction (USA 1812) but then they rebound and become a world power under COMPETENT leadership

Of course this doesnt happen in AOT and paradis because Isayama clearly already stated to us till the end of the story that all his chars are complete morons and drones (hence why paradis gets destroyed in the end)

And Reiner who has SEVERE shame and GUILT. His character last or closing scene is sniffing the letter of Historia (who is already married)

The reason why Reiner does that is because Japanese people have a very weird or perverted view of love. Its so cringe omggg

And yes I will meet Isayama and tell him he is a complete amatuer in comparison to people who actually write good fiction

You can barely write English in a decent manner and you expect us to believe you'd be able to say a single sentence in Japanese to Yams if you ever meet him?
Hilarious xD
Also, i don't recall him ever saying marvel movies are great works of art or something. Do you have any source for that?
Also you didn't refute any of his points, you just went full retard, insulting and ranting, going all caps and oversimplifying stuff at your convenience.

You can clearly read it Guerrero-chan so stop being a nerd and attacking with ad-hominem and stop sucking off yams who cant write a good story

The manga fell of from rank top 20 to 80 its pretty much universally seen as bad or in bad taste

You cant attack the core of my arguments so I wont take you serious. Seriously just dont talk little puta

"The manga fell of from rank top 20 to 80 its pretty much universally seen as bad or in bad taste"

What kind of backwards ass logic is that? Are you for real? xD
You wanna know what other manga are not on the top 20, some not even on the top 50?
Death Note, Chainsaw Man, Akira, Evangelion, Pluto, OPM, Konosuba, Rurouni Kenshin, Hajime no Ippo, Welcome to the NHK, EVEN THE FUCKIN' LEGEND OF THE GALACTIC HEROES NOVELS.
Are you seriously trying to say that all these manga are universally seen as bad even though you've offered no proof, and anywhere you go looking for opinions on them, you'll find mostly praise? And you actually think, even for a second, that an ad-populum fallacy proves you point?

PD: You're still not giving me any proof that Yams ever treated marvel movies as great works of art, so that's another false claim from you. Just do yourself a favor and admit you don't know that the hell you're talking about, estas quedando como un pelotudo.

https://imgur.com/5VcbNJG

"Ad-populum fallacy" is a fancy word for ignoring critique or public criteria

Lets ignore that then and just look at the image above how he wanted the ending to be similiar to Guardians of the Galaxy (which is a marvel movie)

So he holds these movies in high enough regard for it to have influence on his work

Just argue the above points I made how like Armin tip toes from aprecciating genocide to hating it (since he in a very cringe manner thanks eren for it)

or the whole Annie massacring the Scouts but then being able to join the Cringevengers team

Argue then against that instead of using ad-hominem fallacies like you started

Argue against the complete lack of a concise moral compass from any of the characters in the last chapters of the manga

Dont waste my time with your psuedo intellectual dick measuring bullcrap just get to the point why you think this manga ending isnt completely flubbed and betrays the themes this manga was established on

"I'm moving into a more peaceful direction, similar to Guardians of the Galaxy"
Is that all? There must be something missing, where is the part where according to you, he claims Marvel movies are much more than just fun action films? Seems to me like you're reaching hard to make it seem that way, when it really isn't. Also, that interview is from 2014, lol. Couldn't you have picked something more recent?, back in 2014, we were in the middle of Uprising, and later on 2016, he'd release RTS, one of the best arcs in shonen, and just a year after that came the Marley arc. So if i'm following your logic correctly, it's thanks to fucking Marvel that we got some of the greatest and most aclaimed arcs, not just in the series, but in this entire site, since Isayama was so inspired by GoTG? xD

"Argue against the complete lack of a concise moral compass from any of the characters in the last chapters of the manga"
You mean the same characters that acknowledge Eren had no choice and understood that they're as guilty for the rumbling as him, and had doubts on whether or not they should stop him as shown in 124 to 127?, the same characters that the manga itself paints as murderers and traitors who are no better than Eren? (See Yelena's dialogue in 127, and most scenes in 128), hell, Armin even calls himself a monster who's killed hundreds of innocents. The same characters that wanted to talk Eren out of it, convince him to stop the rumbling, and at the first chance they got to contact, apologized for not being able to come up with better solutions for him to use, it's not like Mikasa literally says "Eren, let me share the burden of yours sins with you, we are all guilty of the same sins" in 133 and they only decided to kill Eren with he made it crystal clear that he wasn't gonna stop.
Gee, i wonder why they are willing to team up with what's left of the warriors?, it's not as if the whole manga is about not dehumanizing others, especially your enemies. And that they feel empathy for the warriors, as they were just brainwashed kids following orders, trying to protect their families back on the interment zone, it's not like they realize that they're no better than the warriors, as they too were willing to commit atrocities for their loved ones, as shown at the Raid on Liberio.
It's not like they feel a bit GUILTY that their best friend is murdering billions to 'protect them' and they feel conflicted, i mean, ¿how dare the Scouts be against the extermination of all life beyond Paradis, along with women, children, elders, ecosystems and cultures.
It's also not like amongst the Alliance they had innocent people like Onyankopon who just wanted to save his family and home, and they feel a moral obligation to help him out. It's not like Jean beats the living shit out of Reiner and condemns Magath's actions, or that later Magath acknowledges he was wrong all along and apologizes to the "devils of paradis".
Nah, this conflict is completely one dimensional.

Let me ask you one thing, what did you think the themes and messages of this manga were? Did you think it was about pro-nationalism?, pro-genocide?, ends justify the means?, breaking the cycle of hatred is possible with genocide, conflict among humans will end if we destroy all opposing nations? The key to end racism is to make all other races dissapear?
Just, what did you think was gonna happen in the end? Did you think Eren was gonna win and Paradis would magicaly achieve peace?
Tell me.

Sep 29, 2021 9:26 PM

#1725

Pakuu

Offline

Jun 2015

102

My comedy show at its peak!

Sep 30, 2021 7:27 AM

#1726

Fotme__

Offline

Sep 2021

165

One fcking word: Garbage

Oct 1, 2021 11:59 PM

#1727

Katzenjunge

Offline

Oct 2021

29

I didn't think it was too bad but yes I agree that it felt a lot like Game of Thrones. Great show with an ending that can't live up to rest of the show. At least we can all agree that FMA: Brotherhood will stay on top if they adapt the ending without making any major changes which will likely happen, because they are literally adapting the manga almost panel by panel since episode 1. Their best call would be to just adapt it like it is and then make a movie with an alternative ending. Can't see it being saved any other way.

Oct 2, 2021 9:25 AM

#1728

JosephSaber40

Offline

Apr 2021

134

EnergizerBunny13 said:

RexGS said:
If anyone fr thought this chapter was decent after reading the extra pages then they're absolutely braindead, retarded and don't know the difference between good and bad endings. The ending was absolutely trash.

If you have an actual proper opinion and argument, then kindly share it. If you're just here to insult and disrespect anyone and everyone who does not agree with you, then kindly leave. Did you read the title of this forum? It says DISCUSSION. All opinions here should be respected and discussed. If that's not what you're here for, show yourself out and use your own social media account to rant/bïtch however you want.

arguing with basic facts is really ridiculous the story is very contradictory, Eren was forgiven, and it glorifies hypocrisy and rape how is that a good writing

Eren in 130, 134 stated the only way to save Paradise is to do a full rumbling, then gives up in 139 then the 8 extra pages proves that pre 139 was right !!!!

Eren was forgiven by his friends and Armin for his crimes and the alliance mourned him!!!

unless you give valid opinions why 139 is decent you shouldn't just write on the keyboard.

humanity will continue to wage war and fight for one reason or another. It's real life as we know it with how history repeats itself

then why Eren left Eldia without titan powers to protect them against the retaliation of the outside world !!!

Eren's decision not to follow Zeke's plan was BRILLIANT

Zeke's plan was better than the outcome of 139, it would have sparred 80% of the planet and future generations a painful death WTF are you talking about.

In a way, and only because it's purely fictional, I loved Eren's choice because it was wrong, because it was selfish, because it was human, because it was so damn REFRESHING.

Eren's actions were contradictory immature, and out of dignity WHAT are you talking about !!

Also, Eren's feelings for Mikasa weren't sudden at all and were hinted at throughout the series, and the more he came to disapprove of the scarf and Mikasa's apparent attachment to him as family, the clearer his feelings were.

Eren literally told Mikasa that he hates her directly what are ou talking about what is the meaning behind his lie when Paradise got destroyed !!!!

And I hope you never have the fortune of meeting Isayama, because he doesn't deserve to hear your words

criticism improves things if I have the chance to meet Yams I would have criticized his finale because he didn't build a coherent story and instead ruined his series just to avoid a traumatic ending implementing a very strong DEUS EX Machina and plot armour and accidently assassinated Eren's character with the intention to redeem him really pathetic, if you didn't complain once in your life then you are nothing but a hypocrite.

It's bad enough that he had to even APOLOGIZE for how he CHOSE to end HIS OWN story

we don't read his work for free many fans have been wasting money and time all this finale is a complete betrayal against them, Isayama has one last chance to save his series in the anime after it failed horribly in the live action movies and manga, he needs to listen to the constructive criticism to his finale and fixes his ending.

Isayama needs to implement a finale that builds on the story not contradict it regardless of how dark and cruel it's, actually most masterpieces have mixed tone or dark cruel endings, only baby stories have happy endings.

JosephSaber40Oct 2, 2021 9:28 AM

Oct 2, 2021 9:41 AM

#1729

JosephSaber40

Offline

Apr 2021

134

Keikaku2871 said:

grandy_UiD said:

This makes sense to me and it's what I thought as well. But was the possibility of this happening actually ever shown previously? Like, is there a scene somewhere in the manga where we see Dina being dangerously close to Bertholt or something like that?

Yeah, in the chapter where Reiner is recalling events of that day (chapter 96, around page 28) panel shows dina titan very close to bert but she ignores him. Bert looked visibly surprised, and says "Huh".

In one of the memory shards in Chapter 130, a fragment showing Eren watching Bert through the titan as well.

I really wished if Ymir was the one who killed Eren's mom and it was even hinted in the story that Ymir was the one who led Eren to her.

throughout the story Eren was motivated by the death of his mother, how her murder fueled his rage and anger,

We can see that in the first episodes in the series, and when Eren was inside the titan stomach how he transformed into the attack titan first time, we can see him even humiliating Reiner by reminding him of his mother's death and how her death motivates his actions, we can see him even in 130 determined to finish the rumbling to avenge his mother

it is clearly that Isayama completely misunderstood what's a plot twist, and accidently ruined his series by revealing that Eren was the one who killed his own mother, Eren killing his mother makes her death, Eren's entire character arc nothing more than a joke.

Oct 2, 2021 9:51 AM

#1730

JosephSaber40

Offline

Apr 2021

134

Katzenjunge said:
I didn't think it was too bad but yes I agree that it felt a lot like Game of Thrones. Great show with an ending that can't live up to rest of the show. At least we can all agree that FMA: Brotherhood will stay on top if they adapt the ending without making any major changes which will likely happen, because they are literally adapting the manga almost panel by panel since episode 1. Their best call would be to just adapt it like it is and then make a movie with an alternative ending. Can't see it being saved any other way.

the ending has ruined the entire series, tell me one meaningful scene after the ending all the story was pointless,

I still have some hopes for AOE, you can read more about AOE theory and black bird theory, I'll wait for chapter 131 adaption in the anime according to the theories if Isayama removed the white bird flying besides Armin on the ship or replaced it with a black bird then AOE is confirmed 100% Isayama used that stupid bird to foreshadow 139.

Oct 2, 2021 10:53 AM

#1731

Offline

Feb 2014

42

JosephSaber40 said:

Keikaku2871 said:

Yeah, in the chapter where Reiner is recalling events of that day (chapter 96, around page 28) panel shows dina titan very close to bert but she ignores him. Bert looked visibly surprised, and says "Huh".

In one of the memory shards in Chapter 130, a fragment showing Eren watching Bert through the titan as well.

I really wished if Ymir was the one who killed Eren's mom and it was even hinted in the story that Ymir was the one who led Eren to her.

throughout the story Eren was motivated by the death of his mother, how her murder fueled his rage and anger,

We can see that in the first episodes in the series, and when Eren was inside the titan stomach how he transformed into the attack titan first time, we can see him even humiliating Reiner by reminding him of his mother's death and how her death motivates his actions, we can see him even in 130 determined to finish the rumbling to avenge his mother

it is clearly that Isayama completely misunderstood what's a plot twist, and accidently ruined his series by revealing that Eren was the one who killed his own mother, Eren killing his mother makes her death, Eren's entire character arc nothing more than a joke.

How does Ymir killing Eren's mom make sense? If that was so, Eren's whole hatred would be towards Ymir and not towards the world.

Eren had to himself set in motion all the things that led him to that point. That is the point of the plot twist and is amply foreshadowed. It is quite good, though the shock could've been padded across a few pages. It goes to show Eren was mentally broken that he had no other choice but to execute this horrifying tragedy of himself allowing his mother to be killed. Eren was never the ultra-chad everyone thought him to be in attack on libreio, it was all a facade.

Its possible that you have mis-understood Eren's character as a whole and incorrectly blaming Isayama. Perhaps re-reading without from chapter 90 would help.

Oct 3, 2021 10:35 PM

#1732

Offline

Aug 2020

5

JosephSaber40 said:
arguing with basic facts is really ridiculous the story is very contradictory, Eren was forgiven, and it glorifies hypocrisy and rape how is that a good writing

Eren in 130, 134 stated the only way to save Paradise is to do a full rumbling, then gives up in 139 then the 8 extra pages proves that pre 139 was right !!!!

Eren was forgiven by his friends and Armin for his crimes and the alliance mourned him!!!

unless you give valid opinions why 139 is decent you shouldn't just write on the keyboard.

Basic facts? What makes you believe that what you think is facts? And if all you plan to do is invalidate other opinions that disagree with yours, then why on earth ARE you even here in this DISCUSSION forum? I'm entitled to my own opinions and I never insulted or invalidated anyone regardless of how absurd I might've felt their opinions to be. If you have a really good and decent perspective and argument on the manga's ending, then kindly share it in detail and not in a heavily concise and angry rant, otherwise YOU shouldn't just write on the keyboard.

There's a really critical difference between "understanding," "appreciating," and "validating." Eren's actions were not forgiven or validated by ANYONE, but they were understood and appreciated. The action his friends understood and appreciated was not the genocide itself, but the fact that Eren went that far and sacrificed that much to make himself the villain and enemy of the world to protect them.

As Mikasa said, none of them are in any place to judge Eren for his actions because they're all also sinners. Every single character, whether Eldian, Marleyan, or Survey Corps member, all have committed crimes and have blood of innocents on their hands. Every single one of them, from Eren, to Armin, Mikasa, Erwin, Levi, Hange, Jean, Connie, Sasha, Annie, Reiner, Bertolt, Zeke, Peick, and Porco, all of them sacrificed lives for their own reasons, convictions, and goals, and/or to protect who/what they need to. They all knowingly did what is morally wrong but for what they believed by their own judgements to be right and valid reasons. This whole story revolves around the concept of conflicting morality. Every single character throughout the story has struggled with the internal conflict between doing what they believe needs to be done and doing what is morally right.

Eren is no exception to that, even if his actions were at the expense of 80% of humanity. Every fan who explain Eren's reasons for his actions, and every character in the story who thanked and/or appreciated Eren after his death, all of them are not validating, let alone glorifying genocide. Armin himself acknowledged it as a mistake right after he thanked him for it. A few chapters earlier Hange had screamed that genocide is wrong and nothing can ever make it right. Every character in this story is neither good nor bad, and we are meant to at least understand them as the flawed messed up human beings they are.

Eren, four years ago in that moment when he kissed Historia's hand, he had seen the future and what he was going to do and was naturally beyond horrified, because Eren's character has always been essentially one that values human life. He always was that caring righteous boy who dreamed of freedom and wonders beyond the walls, and that never changed from chapter 1 to 139, regardless of what he said and how he acted after the four year time skip. He was kicked in the groin with a horrific reality of the future and his inevitable enslavement to fate, and thus had to carry that crushing burden as well as the billions of lives he was going to take. So he spent those four years of the time skip trying to find an alternative solution to the future he saw, which is the rumbling, and he found nothing. Nothing he did was able to change the reality of the future he saw. It's also why he angrily grabbed Hange through his prison cell and demanded a solution from her.

Eren knew that there is no definite solution for humanity to achieve peace, and that no matter what he did, with or without the rumbling or Zeke's merciful killing plan, the world would remain at war with different factions trying to eradicate or overpower the other. Even if the Eldians ceased to exist, the wars would continue, because it's part of our reality as human beings and our natural instinct to survive and multiply, as Zeke put it. So Eren knew Zeke's plan was more logical and peaceful, and that the rumbling wouldn't permanently protect Paradis. Eren's goal wasn't saving Paradis, but particularly his friends, as he said to his friends prior to the time skip that he wouldn't give any of them the Attack Titan because they're all precious to him. That implied and somewhat foreshadowed that he would prioritize his friends' wellbeing over the greater good of Paradis.

His goal was ultimately fed by a broken and distorted dream and view of freedom, and the goal was for his friends to live long, free, peaceful, and happy lives without any threat. What I love about this is that, for once a shounen protagonist who has the power to change the whole world does not selflessly use it for the greater good but uses it selfishly and destructively for the sake of his loved ones and his own hurricane of messed up emotions. Even though, as he said, he'd have continued the rumbling until the end if his friends hadn't stopped him, he had planned from the start for the rumbling to be stopped, for his friends to be the ones to kill him so they'd be celebrated by the world as heroes and live in peace.

On the other hand, he may have had clear reasons for the rumbling, but ultimately, as he said himself, he doesn't really know why he did it but just felt like he had to. It was likely the founder Ymir leading him subconsciously down that path so that he'd become humanity's enemy and Mikasa would kill him and thus finally free Ymir. I honestly don't see how this is in any way hypocritical, and if you still think so after reading my full reply then please explain.

Question: How does this story glorify rape? Because the founder Ymir turned out to have loved King Fritz who killed her parents, enslaved her and her village, and treated her like a baby making object and weapon? True, it sounds hella messed up. Even I was like "wtf?" when I first read it, but then I thought a lot about it. Isayama is no idiot. Everything he wrote/drew and how he wrote/drew it was for a reason. The last few chapters prove that everything down to the chapter names and numbers was meticulously planned from chapter 1. Isayama is the type of author that purposely doesn't give us the full picture or answer every question, because he wants us to think and make connections and conclusions ourselves.

The founder Ymir may have loved that monstrous cold-blooded tyrant, but her love was completely portrayed as something negative and torturous, and it was something Ymir was trapped in for millennia and needed to be freed from. How is that glorifying? Also have you stopped to think, as I did, WHY did she even love that piece of scum? I realized that, just because Eren said she was "in love" with King Fritz, doesn't mean that Eren himself knew or understood the full picture, or that Ymir's love is the same kind of romantic emotion we're familiar with. For Ymir, her love was more of a need, a dependence, a toxic attachment and desire for validation and being needed/wanted. Because she's lived as a slave almost all her life, she has a fundamentally skewed understanding of basic human rights, emotions, and relationships.

Though King Fritz had her hunted to death like a wild animal, she still went back to him after gaining titan powers, why? Because she had no other sense of identity and nowhere else to go, and what she probably wanted more than the godly titan powers was simply to bond and belong, and in a very criminally twisted and toxic way, she felt that King Fritz gave her that. Even though it was completely objectifying, in Ymir's eyes he at least valued her in some way, and in serving him and doing everything he asked, at least the part of her that was attached to him certainly wasn't unwilling. She probably didn't have any knowledge or conception of what rape is and whether or not she experienced it, and I don't think she was entirely, if at all unwilling to bear King Fritz' children since she was already attached to him to a degree, and since having children is also the kind of bond she craves, and that same desire is part of what kept her attached and bonded to all her descendants. Like Kenny said, everyone has to be drunk on something, and this is what Ymir was drunk on.

Furthermore, based on my own speculation, I believe that Ymir's own biological family was a bad if not abusive one, since her fellow villagers so easily sold her out and let her die, and since Ymir herself not only has no remaining attachment, loyalty, or any feelings for her parents who were supposedly killed, nor does she seem to have been familiar or exposed to any kind of healthy emotions or relationships as a child prior to her enslavement, which in a way made her an easier puppet for King Fritz to manipulate and exploit.

then why Eren left Eldia without titan powers to protect them against the retaliation of the outside world !!!

He left Eldia without titan powers so they wouldn't be considered a threat and get targeted by the rest of the world because of them, and so the world wouldn't try to conquer them and exploit their powers again like Marley did. The whole world is a better place without titan powers because they only made the hate, discrimination, and wars even worse than they were before the titan powers even existed. And Eren literally made his friends, who are Paradisians, the heroes of the world, so that title in itself would protect them since the whole world would now hail them as heroes of humanity. THAT was Eren's goal, his friends' freedom, safety, happiness, and longevity. Who Eren left unprotected against the world are those damned Yeagarists who are probably the ones who started the wars again anyways. And everyone that Eren cared for on Paradis would have lived out their whole lives peacefully as well as some of their children if not grandchildren before the rest of the world had recovered enough from the rumbling to wage war against Paradis and the Yeagarists, and so ultimately Eren did achieve his goal. As for the Eldians in Marley, they're practically normal people now, especially since they weren't the ones fully hated and targeted by the world as devils like Paradis was, so those Eldians should be relatively fine.

Zeke's plan was better than the outcome of 139, it would have sparred 80% of the planet and future generations a painful death WTF are you talking about.

As I said above, Zeke's plan was more logical, practical, and humane, especially towards all of humanity, but it was completely unfair for the children of Ymir themselves to be slowly wiped out like that when they have the right to live happily and populate like everyone else. What Eren wanted and achieved for his friends is their freedom, since he could never achieve his own freedom in his lifetime. Zeke's plan is oppressive as hell and is the opposite of everything Eren has stood for since chapter 1.

Eren's actions were contradictory immature, and out of dignity WHAT are you talking about !!

Eren's actions were mature, selfish, human, and hella messed up, and they weren't contradictory at all, as I clearly explained earlier in my reply. And what does anything have to do with dignity?

Eren literally told Mikasa that he hates her directly what are ou talking about what is the meaning behind his lie when Paradise got destroyed !!!!

Him lashing out on Armin and Mikasa was obviously a lie. It was an obvious "I need you to hate me" trope. Eren and Mikasa have loved each other for a long time and it's clear throughout the story that they're more than just family to each other in the way they care for each other, protect and take care of each other, the way Eren doesn't like Mikasa fussing over him like a parent, and the fact that they literally almost kissed after Hannes died. Paradis was going to get destroyed eventually, so is every other land and nation at one point, countries and civilizations are destroyed and rebuilt repeatedly throughout history, it's inevitable and there wouldn't have been any way for Paradis to be permanently peaceful and safe. Knowing that, Eren's goal was for his friends, the people that matter to him the most, to live long, happy, peaceful, and free lives even if himself never can, and he achieved that for them, and that's what they appreciated and thanked him for.

criticism improves things if I have the chance to meet Yams I would have criticized his finale because he didn't build a coherent story and instead ruined his series just to avoid a traumatic ending implementing a very strong DEUS EX Machina and plot armour and accidently assassinated Eren's character with the intention to redeem him really pathetic, if you didn't complain once in your life then you are nothing but a hypocrite.

we don't read his work for free many fans have been wasting money and time all this finale is a complete betrayal against them, Isayama has one last chance to save his series in the anime after it failed horribly in the live action movies and manga, he needs to listen to the constructive criticism to his finale and fixes his ending.

Correction, CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is what improves things. Telling Isayama that he ruined his own series and that it's a disgrace to the world of literature is anything BUT criticism. Words like that can literally destroy and trigger depression in someone who dedicated more than a decade and endless time, energy, and effort into research, planning, writing, and drawing. It's incredibly difficult being a mangaka and it's even harder being a popular one. He dedicated so much to plan every minute aspect of the story with every parallel, connection, timeline, etc. from start to finish, down to the chapter numbers and titles and the mechanisms of different technologies. He knew exactly what he was doing in the last chapter and what he wanted to convey, and he believed we'd understand and appreciate that. I can't imagine the defeat and disappointment he must have felt seeing all the senseless outrage against the ending. He even gave us extra chapter and got even more hell for it.

If you honestly believe Eren's death was redemptive and accidental on Isayama's part, the I think you need to reread the entire series, nice and slow. I believe Eren was meant to die regardless of what kind of ending Isayama chose to go with, because his death has a purpose and reflects many themes that are prominent throughout the story, particularly freedom. And if you ever do meet Isayama, though I hope and pray that you don't, try to actually articulate a proper detailed argument with examples on how you feel the last chapter wasn't satisfactory instead of going off with short, vague, generalizing statements like this and trashing everything he worked for and put his heart and soul into.

Also, whether or not fans have been wasting money on his work, he still doesn't owe them a different ending or an apology for the one he wrote. If he was apologizing for a mistake he made or something unintentionally offensive in his work, then sure, he should definitely apologize. But why does he need to apologize for a well-written and thought out ending just because many people weren't happy with it? It's his work, his story, his plot and plan that he developed as he wanted and envisioned it. Just because people devoted many years and money to his work, doesn't mean he owes them anything for their own choices, especially not enough to literally change his work to suit them. From an author or artist's perspective, this would be sacrilege. Books, whether serialized or not, aren't meant to be custom made or to suit and satisfy everyone. Whoever choses to read and invest time, money, and/or emotions in them is making their own choice and should handle it's consequences whether or not they're satisfied in the end. This is the story and magaka you chose to invest in and follow up on, and this is the culmination of all his work on this story. He did the best he believed he could do. You either take it or leave it, it's really that simple. And in the worst case scenario, I'm sure the aot manga and merch would still have a good resale value if those invested fans chose to get rid of them.

Isayama needs to implement a finale that builds on the story not contradict it regardless of how dark and cruel it's, actually most masterpieces have mixed tone or dark cruel endings, only baby stories have happy endings.

I'm not sure how to address this. I don't know how you're even able to appreciate story endings when you reduce them to single adjectives like "dark," "tragic," "happy," etc. when if they were indeed masterpieces as you say, they'd be so much more than that and a hundred different adjectives at least. The finale built on the story perfectly and I still don't see how it contradicts it. If you really have an argument or opinion to express then do so fully and in detail so one could understand and attempt to counter, otherwise like this I can't really understand what you're implying.

If you honestly think aot's ending was actually happy then I really don't know what to tell you. I think you're just hung up on the fact that he changed the ending from something darker to something more sentimental and apparently "happy" to you. The ending was honestly neither happy nor sad but still tragic in its own way though it gives appropriate closure. If I were to try to sum it up in word, I'd call it an "open" ending, because that's what it essentially is, and how stories really are in real life. Some aspects get closure and folded away, yet the story, and life, and the world, all go on, for better or for worse. I understand wanting something more conclusive, clear, and concrete for an ending and that this kind is frustrating in its own way, but that doesn't make it a bad one by any means.

And no, I'm not a damn hypocrite, I had my issues with the last chapter even though overall I loved it and thought of it as a masterpiece. But instead of ranting about my complaints or trashing Isayama, I reread, analyzed, and tried to understand and find connections and answers that I hadn't yet seen, and honestly till now, the more I think over certain details, the more I understand, and the more depth I find. Like the fact that not all Eldians are children of Ymir since Eldia existed as a tribe before Ymir did. And from that I concluded that the noble families in Paradis that are immune to the founding titan's powers are probably some of the descendants of those pre-Ymir and non-children-of-Ymir Eldians, and that the rest of them who are outside Paradis probably live like normal people among Eldians since they have no shared blood and nothing to tie or associate them with the Eldians.

This and many, MANY things prove that Isayama planned and thought of EVERYTHING even if he didn't clearly spell it out for us in the manga. Because I trust in the detailed brilliance and thoroughness of his work that I believe aot probably has no plot holes that can't be explained and resolved if we analyze it deeper. As I said before, as an author and mangaka, Isayama wanted us to THINK, to challenge our own perception and understanding of things, to find connections, and to create and find theories and explanations. And personally, the more I think, the more I am in awe of Isayama and his prowess.

EnergizerBunny13Oct 3, 2021 11:02 PM

Oct 3, 2021 10:44 PM

#1733

Manga Recommendations 📚 | Top Manga Panels 🖌️ | Fav AniManga Quotes 📜

Offline

Aug 2020

5

JosephSaber40 said:

Keikaku2871 said:

Yeah, in the chapter where Reiner is recalling events of that day (chapter 96, around page 28) panel shows dina titan very close to bert but she ignores him. Bert looked visibly surprised, and says "Huh".

In one of the memory shards in Chapter 130, a fragment showing Eren watching Bert through the titan as well.

I really wished if Ymir was the one who killed Eren's mom and it was even hinted in the story that Ymir was the one who led Eren to her.

throughout the story Eren was motivated by the death of his mother, how her murder fueled his rage and anger,

We can see that in the first episodes in the series, and when Eren was inside the titan stomach how he transformed into the attack titan first time, we can see him even humiliating Reiner by reminding him of his mother's death and how her death motivates his actions, we can see him even in 130 determined to finish the rumbling to avenge his mother

it is clearly that Isayama completely misunderstood what's a plot twist, and accidently ruined his series by revealing that Eren was the one who killed his own mother, Eren killing his mother makes her death, Eren's entire character arc nothing more than a joke.

I'm sorry but did you even read the last few chapters? Because clearly you're the one misunderstanding things, not Isayama. How could the foudner Ymir possibly have made Dina titan kill Eren's mom? Ymir has been a slave of King Fritz and the royal family for millennia, doing their bidding unconditionally and bestowing the power of the titans to those who call upon it. How on earth would she have had the will to MAKE Dina, a royal descendant (even in titan form) do her bidding for whatever reason? If she was able to do that, what would have been the point of Ymir's slavery and her need to be freed?

In a sense, Ymir did subconsciously lead Eren down this path to the rumbling, so she did indirectly kill Eren's mom by subconsciously influencing Eren to do so, but it is inarguably Eren's doing, directly and knowingly, because his mother's death was meant to be the catalyst for everything else that happens in the story, and for it all to happen his mother had to die. In fact, if it was Ymir who had directly killed Eren's mom, that would have invalidated at least the entire last volume of the story if not much, MUCH more.

Oct 4, 2021 12:25 AM

#1734

Weebookey

Offline

Oct 2017

536

Still funny seeing children cry over thinking this ending was actually good lol...

PRAY. DAMN MACHINE. PRAY FOR ME.

Oct 4, 2021 3:15 AM

#1735

Shadzzo

Offline

Jul 2012

753

Dildry said:

Alvacka97 said:

Dildry said:

EnergizerBunny13 said:

Dildry said:
The problem is that the message of the story is bassically confirms doomer ideology

Doesnt matter what Eren did. He loses and Paradis gets destroyed and the cycle of hatred and titan powers continues

I actually dont care about the shipping fag bs but Eren absolutely achieves NOTHING in this entire manga

So he achieves nothing and top of that he gets cucked for a girl he rejected in S2 that he suddenly loves all of the sudden

This manga is clear humiliation porn and if I ever meet Isayama irl I will tell him that his entire manga is an insult to the world of literature.

Question, was there any potential alternative that Eren could've taken or done that would NOT have eventually ended in war? Whether or not the Eldians or Marleyans exist, whether or not titan powers exist, humanity will continue to wage war and fight for one reason or another. It's real life as we know it with how history repeats itself.

Two quotes that really stood out to me were said by Hanje-san and Yelena, respectively:
"Genocide is wrong!! No reasoning in the world can make it right!!"
"You just can't keep people away from violence."
These two quotes, in my opinion, conveyed the gist of the final arc as well as laying out straight deep facts about humanity irl.

Eren's decision not to follow Zeke's plan was BRILLIANT to me. As rational and humane as Zeke's merciful killing plan was, I hated it and felt a quirky brewing anger in me over it because it was so damn unfair for Eldians to remain oppressed even in that way until the end of their existence. Now, the rest of humanity didn't deserve the rumbling either, and I would in no way justify it, but I understand it.

In a way, and only because it's purely fictional, I loved Eren's choice because it was wrong, because it was selfish, because it was human, because it was so damn REFRESHING. For once, someone with all the great power and great responsibility did not act selflessly or prioritize the greater good. It showed how truly flawed, vulnerable, and burdened he was as truly just another average person. He bore so much rage, hate, pain, fear, hope, care, disappointment, responsibility, etc. He tried to let out all these feelings, to protect the people he cares about,to make himself the common enemy of all humanity so his loved ones could be the heroes, to free Ymir and get rid of the titan powers so that humanity would no longer fight over destroying it or controling it. What else or more could he have single-handedly done?

Also, Eren's feelings for Mikasa weren't sudden at all and were hinted at throughout the series, and the more he came to disapprove of the scarf and Mikasa's apparent attachment to him as family, the clearer his feelings were.

And I hope you never have the fortune of meeting Isayama, because he doesn't deserve to hear your words after the many many years he put his heart and soul into this brilliant work, believing in his fans and that they'd understand his feelings by the end of the journey. He's had enough hardship, sadness, and disappointment from people like you who chose to hate, trash, and discredit everything he worked for.

It's bad enough that he had to even APOLOGIZE for how he CHOSE to end HIS OWN story, so spare him the heartache he's already had more than enough of. I wish I could have the fortune of meeting him to tell him what a Brill job he did in dedicating all that time, effort, and energy to this masterpiece, and to apologize on behalf of all the idiots that pressured him for various reasons and made him end up rushing through the last volume or two. He deserves so much more and better.

Oh shut up you complete mark. The story is completely bankrupt in terms of actual philosophical relevance and the final arc did not make sense at all

Stop making excuses for somebody that unironically sees Marvel movies as something more than just mindless action packed fun

Besides Eren powertripping and being human the rest of the chars feel like drones

Why does Mikasa love Eren? For what? They barely ever interact

Either way the manga had an absolute atrocious ending

Annie massacred the Survey Corps elite including Levi's love interest yet they never tackle that or even bring any tension in that regard when she returns

She just casually gets unthawed and joins the "resistance"

That is ABSOLUTE ATROCIOUS AND MEME TIER WRITING LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOO HAHAHAHAHAHA

The show has two sides that commit war crimes yet tries to play a "moralist" right narrative but then switch it up and have Armin "the good guy" THANK EREN FOR CAUSING A 80% WIPING OF THE EARTH GENOCIDE

SO THE GUY THAT IS AGAINST GENOCIDE FUCKING THANKS THE GUY THAT HE WANTS TO KILL

WHAT IS THIS SHIT

AND HE THANKS EREN FOR NOT FORCING HIM TO DO THE "BAD GENOCIDE THING" BUT HIS NATION GETS NUKED IN 100 YEARS ANYWAY

WTF AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHA

In real life nations can be brought on the brink of destruction (USA 1812) but then they rebound and become a world power under COMPETENT leadership

Of course this doesnt happen in AOT and paradis because Isayama clearly already stated to us till the end of the story that all his chars are complete morons and drones (hence why paradis gets destroyed in the end)

And Reiner who has SEVERE shame and GUILT. His character last or closing scene is sniffing the letter of Historia (who is already married)

The reason why Reiner does that is because Japanese people have a very weird or perverted view of love. Its so cringe omggg

And yes I will meet Isayama and tell him he is a complete amatuer in comparison to people who actually write good fiction

You can barely write English in a decent manner and you expect us to believe you'd be able to say a single sentence in Japanese to Yams if you ever meet him?
Hilarious xD
Also, i don't recall him ever saying marvel movies are great works of art or something. Do you have any source for that?
Also you didn't refute any of his points, you just went full retard, insulting and ranting, going all caps and oversimplifying stuff at your convenience.

You can clearly read it Guerrero-chan so stop being a nerd and attacking with ad-hominem and stop sucking off yams who cant write a good story

The manga fell of from rank top 20 to 80 its pretty much universally seen as bad or in bad taste

You cant attack the core of my arguments so I wont take you serious. Seriously just dont talk little puta

Based ese destroying these braindead putas.

You could put up a plate of shit infront of them and say "This was isayama's shit" and they would scream "THIS WONDERFUL FOOD SUBARASHI I COULD DIE IM SO HAPPY SUCH DELICIOUS" and eat it all up.

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Oct 8, 2021 9:56 AM

#1736

NemsLasukku

Offline

Aug 2021

6

This has to be the worst chapter of all time...

Oct 16, 2021 5:40 PM

#1737

Frosty

Offline

Jun 2011

108

Glad I caught up on this series. Now I can understand why people bash the ending. From my view, it just went right back to square one, solving nothing.

Oct 18, 2021 4:14 AM

#1738