First I want to say you impressed me with your patience considering the slavery issue and thank you for that. As far as this story goes, of course the MC benefits from slavery but of course the author thought up some "good" excuses to maintain the status quo (some excuses come later, same for some special hero treatments and alike) From a writing point of view, slavery is only one form of the "devoted female" trope. You have the devoted lover, the devoted maid, the devoted little sister, ... it is very important for some shounen readers who wants to identify with the hero to get some devoted female character in the same time. That's gratifying to be on a pedestal ... and if the girl has big boobs, it's even better. So in this story the "devoted female" is a slave, that's so in the beginning and will probably stay so later on because of the excuses the author thought up to keep it that way and yes it's definitely his choice to keep it. More than saying the author is pro-slavery though, he probably just wanted to bring the "fetish" of the devoted female in this shounen/seinen and it seems he won't budge from that. PS : the royalty trope is also shit, but it is so commonly accepted that it is not even worth talking about (not surprising coming from japan actually). |
| Not really upset at the false rape accusation thing per se, but it definitely seems like a lazy way to set up a revenge story. |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
| @Grey-Zone Firstly, it doesn't matter if you disagree with the definition. What matters is whether it's true, not what you call it. I'm not going to argue semantics with you. Grey-Zone said: Does he benefit? He lives to fight another day rather than dying, so yes, he does benefit from it. It's a binary choice between buying a slave or dying. So you do agree with me. That's good. Now, the next question. Do you agree that it was the author that set the story up, so that it was in the MC's best interest to participate in slavery? @Ysad_Ziwezhan Thank you. |
| Such title is bound to cause controversy, probably that's what the author was aiming for, to cause controversy because controversy can and is used as a marketing tool and looking by the discussion it is working as probably intended. the anime touches a dark theme of false rape accusations, problem present in current world that causes several deaths, there's even countries just like the one presented in the anime that don't properly judge rape accusations only requiring accusation to make someone subject of capital punishment, it also shows slavery as survival tool witch may be too challenging for some people but that's ok, its entertainment after all there's several other titles out there with softer themes. |
Huex3 said: NthDegree said: @Huex3 Spoilers much? Besides Not to mention aside from her motivation, your observations are irrelevant to what I was talking about. Did you even read my post? News flash: You don't need to be a slave to "help out". Mind-blowing, I know. |
NthDegree said: @Grey-Zone Firstly, it doesn't matter if you disagree with the definition. What matters is whether it's true, not what you call it. I'm not going to argue semantics with you. Oh, but it DOES matter, since you use it as a measurement tool to determine whether this series and/or the author promote misogyny. You probably added these "rules" into it to ensure that the characters in question act objectively rather than subjectively, as well as prove that they have a big impact, which requires a willingness to change the status quo, but the problem is that at that point it's already a mere sub-set of what "agency" is supposed to encompass. Under your defintion any socially active individual and/or anyone with great political power who acts conservatively doesn't have any agency. That makes no sense, unless your definition of a good female character is an aloof, isolated anarchist that wants to take down all the nations and the established order of the world. NthDegree said: Grey-Zone said: Does he benefit? He lives to fight another day rather than dying, so yes, he does benefit from it. It's a binary choice between buying a slave or dying. So you do agree with me. That's good. Now, the next question. Do you agree that it was the author that set the story up, so that it was in the MC's best interest to participate in slavery? Are you asking me a series of leading questions that results in "so you do agree with me that the author is promoting slavery and making it look good!", while ignoring everything else along the way I say? No, that won't happen. First off all depicting something as beneficial doesn't mean it's also depicted as morally acceptable, neither does it "promote" that something. Slavery is generally considered beneficial to the ancient civilisations that pratcised it, but I don't remember this view ever translating to accepting or "promoting" slavery. Just because something is beneficial doesn't mean a story or its author is promoting it, unless you want to tell me that the author of Death Note was promoting mass murders or the idea that it's OK to kill law enforcement if they are investigating you. And no, a person who is emotionally unstable doing something that is considered morally reprehensible does not mean that the story or author is in any way attempting to "normalize" it. In the first place I don't even consider a fictional work like this or its author as trying to impose their moral views on the reader, but rather just as a regular piece of entertainment. Not everything is a social commentary. |
 |
| The amount of threads debating why is show is shit is already a big enough controversy. |
| 「ボクは…確かに現実に絶望している。だけど、自分には絶望していない!! 今がつまらないか…楽しいのか…平凡なのか…決めているのは現実じゃない。決めるのはボクだ!!ボクが望めば不可能はない!!」-桂木桂馬 "True, I've given up on the real world. However, I haven't given up on myself!! The world doesn't get to decide whether my life is boring, fun, or ordinary because that's my decision to make!! As long as I have the will, nothing is impossible!!" -Katsuragi Keima |
| The people most sensitive seem to be the ones complaining about non-existent outrage lol |
 |
| are npcs reeing already? just checking in |
| The bistros are filling up with latte sipping sjw’s plotting their attacks. Who will be offended today? Which waifu needs saving? And what fan needs to be brought down a notch? Its a day in the life of an ohh so sensitive sjw. |
| Next will be complaints about child abuse. Wait for it. |
mieloasecas said: are npcs reeing already? just checking in Some NPCs are already triggered by it. Apparently showing 1 bitch means you hate women. OMEGALUL, gotta love how these NPCs are programmed.  |
| I don't think people who enjoy Isekai deserve to call other people NPC. |
 |
Grey-Zone said: NthDegree said: @Grey-Zone Firstly, it doesn't matter if you disagree with the definition. What matters is whether it's true, not what you call it. I'm not going to argue semantics with you. Oh, but it DOES matter, since you use it as a measurement tool to determine whether this series and/or the author promote misogyny. You probably added these "rules" into it to ensure that the characters in question act objectively rather than subjectively, as well as prove that they have a big impact, which requires a willingness to change the status quo, but the problem is that at that point it's already a mere sub-set of what "agency" is supposed to encompass. Under your defintion any socially active individual and/or anyone with great political power who acts conservatively doesn't have any agency. That makes no sense, unless your definition of a good female character is an aloof, isolated anarchist that wants to take down all the nations and the established order of the world. What we are currently arguing about is whether the show meets this definition of agency. Once we can agree on it, we can further discuss about whether it's bad or not. It is simply easier to split these topics into smaller bits to avoid wasting time on the semantics. Grey-Zone said: NthDegree said: So you do agree with me. That's good. Now, the next question. Do you agree that it was the author that set the story up, so that it was in the MC's best interest to participate in slavery? Are you asking me a series of leading questions that results in "so you do agree with me that the author is promoting slavery and making it look good!", while ignoring everything else along the way I say? No, that won't happen. First off all depicting something as beneficial doesn't mean it's also depicted as morally acceptable, neither does it "promote" that something. Slavery is generally considered beneficial to the ancient civilisations that pratcised it, but I don't remember this view ever translating to accepting or "promoting" slavery. Just because something is beneficial doesn't mean a story or its author is promoting it, unless you want to tell me that the author of Death Note was promoting mass murders or the idea that it's OK to kill law enforcement if they are investigating you. And no, a person who is emotionally unstable doing something that is considered morally reprehensible does not mean that the story or author is in any way attempting to "normalize" it. In the first place I don't even consider a fictional work like this or its author as trying to impose their moral views on the reader, but rather just as a regular piece of entertainment. Not everything is a social commentary. Lol, why yes, that is exactly what I'm doing. I'm glad you agree that it is indeed the inevitable result if we discuss the topic. Can we agree on the conclusion already then? Otherwise I will be forced to point out that you didn't actually answer the question. Again, once we agree, we can move on to the next point. The reason I'm doing this this way is because if we tackle everything at once, we'll just end up shouting over each other (as gastert already pointed out), which is not my intention. By the way, it's not exactly polite to accusing me of ignoring you (although I was away from MAL a few days) when you yourself ignored my question. @Huex3 Try to give me an example? |
NthDegreeJan 8, 2019 10:00 AM
| It already has. Anime News Network is reeeing calling the anime " An incel/nice guy revenge fantasy" and I'm pretty sure twitter is doing the same too. At this point there's always going to be an anime that triggers the outrage mob. First it was Darling in the Franxx with people being triggered for the show promoting heterosexuality or something like that. Then it was Goblin Slayer and how it promoted rape culture and antisemitisim because goblins are jews I guess. And this promotes misogyny because the MC got falsely accused of rape. I'll just be here waiting to see how far this controversy goes and how long it lasts. Since the Goblin Slayer one lasted for about two months or so. Let's see if this show can beat that record. Edit: I also need to add that the author is also female which is the most hilarious part about this situation. I wonder how long will it take for SJWs to find out. |
Vlad4oJan 8, 2019 10:55 AM
Grey-Zone said: Only_Brad said: There's no rape in tate no yuusha, so no snowflake will get triggered by it. It does, however, have IMO, this might even be worse compared to rape scenes in terms of "triggering", because in this case it actually kind of debunks the world-view of the "snowflakes" and seems to depict a world like a "snowflake" would expect from someone who is opposed to their views. it's different. so when i watched goblin slayer episode 1 i was like this isnt for me (i appreciated the realism tbh but i personally do not watch anime for that - girl running around half naked and being captured in a middle age world and not raped [and isnt someone who they plan to use as a hostage ie a princess or someone with value] is well bs, look at our history as a species.) so the first episode filled me with unease. as in yeh thats the shit that happened in the past id rather not revisit it in the first episode of tate. well after the false rape accusation, i was furious at how stupid and predictable the anime was. then i read the synopsis because my friend told me to stfu and read it and realised that it was predictable as its basically the intro. was simply meant to explain what happened before the journey begins. anyway once i got over the issue and continued watching the 2nd half, i was filled with a burning rage/desire. i dislike the me too movement and all that other bs that makes false claims that once upon a time a guy told me that if i sleep with him he will promote me, well you took it by choice. it ain't rape. probs some poor guy failed to get promoted cause the option isn't available for him. offtopic but tate shouldn't cause controversy. on one hand the far left will watch it and be like well justice was served, the women said it was rape so it must be rape. and the right will be like well business as usual and align themselves with the mc, like i actually feel for the mc after 1 episode. thats rare. |
Vlad4o said: >sjw having logicIt already has. Anime News Network is reeeing calling the anime " An incel/nice guy revenge fantasy" and I'm pretty sure twitter is doing the same too. At this point there's always going to be an anime that triggers the outrage mob. First it was Darling in the Franxx with people being triggered for the show promoting heterosexuality or something like that. Then it was Goblin Slayer and how it promoted rape culture and antisemitisim because goblins are jews I guess. And this promotes misogyny because the MC got falsely accused of rape. I'll just be here waiting to see how far this controversy goes and how long it lasts. Since the Goblin Slayer one lasted for about two months or so. Let's see if this show can beat that record. Edit: I also need to add that the author is also female which is the most hilarious part about this situation. I wonder how long will it take for SJWs to find out. Now there's a joke. |
Please learn about cel animation and its technical process. Learn how special effects and backlighting were done without computers. |
theboxcarracer said: Yo, you guys are all preemptively mad at people for a controversy that hasn't even happened yet. Who are the oversensitive snowflakes in this situation again? Maybe the people who are already riled up about the fact that something MIGHT make other people upset? The hypocrisy here is so painfully obvious. Oversensitive snowflake here, reporting to duty! As for explanation, some of us have read the LNs. If you don't care about being spoiled, here's my reasoning. NthDegree said: Promoting slavery is simple: the MC supports actual slavery by being a slave master. That's bad enough but furthermore I've mostly focused on the slavery bit but as for misogyny EDIT: tl;dr: Guys get to be heroes, girls get to be slaves. Real subtle, guys. |
Bozzzz said: Vlad4o said: It already has. Anime News Network is reeeing calling the anime " An incel/nice guy revenge fantasy" and I'm pretty sure twitter is doing the same too. At this point there's always going to be an anime that triggers the outrage mob. First it was Darling in the Franxx with people being triggered for the show promoting heterosexuality or something like that. Then it was Goblin Slayer and how it promoted rape culture and antisemitisim because goblins are jews I guess. And this promotes misogyny because the MC got falsely accused of rape. I'll just be here waiting to see how far this controversy goes and how long it lasts. Since the Goblin Slayer one lasted for about two months or so. Let's see if this show can beat that record. Edit: I also need to add that the author is also female which is the most hilarious part about this situation. I wonder how long will it take for SJWs to find out. ANN is a joke. Apparently anyone can write there and be called an expert, no knowledge is needed. I found the misogyny article really funny but the one that refuted it was the real gold. Both the author and illustrator were women lmao. I bet they'll continute to call the author by the wrong pronoun like most of the other ones and try to cover their tracks lmao. |
| It should also be noted that the web novel was written in 2012 which is before the notion of "Listen and Believe" was heavily pushed and the infamous Rolling Stone article was published. |
FontSize72LOL said: Bozzzz said: ANN is a joke. Apparently anyone can write there and be called an expert, no knowledge is needed. I found the misogyny article really funny but the one that refuted it was the real gold. Both the author and illustrator were women lmao. I bet they'll continute to call the author by the wrong pronoun like most of the other ones and try to cover their tracks lmao. Hm, I certainly mistook her gender. Thank you for the correction. That being said, it's not like women can't be sexist or support slavery, so it doesn't make the books any less problematic. |
| People with a tendency to argue will find controversies, and if there are no such then they are likely to make ones by themselves. Fake rape accusations happen in real life and they are bad. "Shield Hero" condemns them as such. Rapists are bad people. "Goblin Slayer" condemns rapists, comparing them to filthy, bloody, primitive goblins. I have no idea where those "sensitive people" find controversy, or maybe they see fake rape accusations or rape crimes as something at least neutral, so condemning these acts in the animes mentioned above they treat as something, dunno, bad? If sensitive people have problems with that kind of "controversial scenes", then my advice is to stop watching certain shows or not to start watching them at all, especially after hearing or reading a warning about possible controversial and/or disturbing scenes. |
FontSize72LOL said: Is there any sauces that the author and/or the illustrator is a woman? Apparently it's unknown.Bozzzz said: ANN is a joke. Apparently anyone can write there and be called an expert, no knowledge is needed. I found the misogyny article really funny but the one that refuted it was the real gold. Both the author and illustrator were women lmao. I bet they'll continute to call the author by the wrong pronoun like most of the other ones and try to cover their tracks lmao. |
Please learn about cel animation and its technical process. Learn how special effects and backlighting were done without computers. |
NthDegree said: FontSize72LOL said: Both the author and illustrator were women lmao. I bet they'll continute to call the author by the wrong pronoun like most of the other ones and try to cover their tracks lmao. Hm, I certainly mistook her gender. Thank you for the correction. That being said, it's not like women can't be sexist or support slavery, so it doesn't make the books any less problematic. The sexism and slavery are both extremely shallow takes though. The series is highly critical of the slavery system and Naofumi only utilizes it as a manner of survival. The first episode, or the first arc even is only more or less the prologue of the story anyway, Its a little quick to judge the entire merits of the story based on a cursory first glance. Calling a Bitch a Bitch isn't any more sexist than calling a bastard a bastard. I think you're taking all the wrong things away from the incident in the first episode. Naofumi loses his ability to trust people over the incident. Pretty much the only person he thinks favorably of at first is the blacksmith and thats practically only because the blacksmith was the only person to show Naofumi a bit of kindness (and he helped him out). A lot of this story is about a guy who lost his ability to trust and give faith to people, regaining that through his interaction with his companions. What is problematic anyway? That an author dared to insinuate that a rape accusation could be weaponized and used by a malicious actor to ruin someones life? The author in no way insinuated this was a normal, usual or acceptable thing so what is problematic about it? Keep in mind this was written back in 2013 or so. |
Bozzzz said: Vlad4o said: It already has. Anime News Network is reeeing calling the anime " An incel/nice guy revenge fantasy" and I'm pretty sure twitter is doing the same too. At this point there's always going to be an anime that triggers the outrage mob. First it was Darling in the Franxx with people being triggered for the show promoting heterosexuality or something like that. Then it was Goblin Slayer and how it promoted rape culture and antisemitisim because goblins are jews I guess. And this promotes misogyny because the MC got falsely accused of rape. I'll just be here waiting to see how far this controversy goes and how long it lasts. Since the Goblin Slayer one lasted for about two months or so. Let's see if this show can beat that record. Edit: I also need to add that the author is also female which is the most hilarious part about this situation. I wonder how long will it take for SJWs to find out. ANN is a joke. Apparently anyone can write there and be called an expert, no knowledge is needed. I found the misogyny article really funny but the one that refuted it was the real gold. Link to the article that refuted it ? lmao |
| ¿Los princesos de lo 'políticamente correcto atacan de nuevo? Ah, por mi que se vayan a chingar a su madre. |
| No tomo malas decisiones, solo me gusta apoyar causas perdidas. Disfruté Mayoiga, Ou-sama Game, Evil or Live, Mirai Nikki, Big Order, Arifureta, Ex-Arm, Tesla Note, Shuumatsu no Harem y Platinum End nope les falle con esa, lo siento pero todos tenemos nuestros límites. Así de jodido es mi gusto en anime, ¡Y estoy pinche orgulloso de ello!  |
| The amount of wokeness in this thread. Ugh. In what way this supports slavery? Raphtalia is hot? She levels up quickly because she's a slave? Give me a fucking break. None of these "reasons" points to supports slavery. Slavery refers to any situation in which an individual is de facto forced to work against their own will. There is a clear difference between abusing someone because she's a slave and having a trustable comrade despite her having a slave status. |
| 「ボクは…確かに現実に絶望している。だけど、自分には絶望していない!! 今がつまらないか…楽しいのか…平凡なのか…決めているのは現実じゃない。決めるのはボクだ!!ボクが望めば不可能はない!!」-桂木桂馬 "True, I've given up on the real world. However, I haven't given up on myself!! The world doesn't get to decide whether my life is boring, fun, or ordinary because that's my decision to make!! As long as I have the will, nothing is impossible!!" -Katsuragi Keima |
copyrightRingo said: The amount of wokeness in this thread. Ugh. In what way this supports slavery? Raphtalia is hot? She levels up quickly because she's a slave? Give me a fucking break. None of these "reasons" points to supports slavery. Slavery refers to any situation in which an individual is de facto forced to work against their own will. There is a clear difference between abusing someone because she's a slave and having a trustable comrade despite her having a slave status. Honestly the work does more to criticise and rebuke slavery later on, but as with anything anime, people will cling to their myopic knee-jerk reaction on what is the anime equivalent of the introduction to the prologue AKA episode 1 of the show. |
FontSize72LOL said: copyrightRingo said: The amount of wokeness in this thread. Ugh. In what way this supports slavery? Raphtalia is hot? She levels up quickly because she's a slave? Give me a fucking break. None of these "reasons" points to supports slavery. Slavery refers to any situation in which an individual is de facto forced to work against their own will. There is a clear difference between abusing someone because she's a slave and having a trustable comrade despite her having a slave status. Honestly the work does more to criticise and rebuke slavery later on, but as with anything anime, people will cling to their myopic knee-jerk reaction on what is the anime equivalent of the introduction to the prologue AKA episode 1 of the show. I actually read through that in both the light novel and the manga. It just frustrates me that people judge an entire series with a mere 10 minutes of the anime or less. |
| 「ボクは…確かに現実に絶望している。だけど、自分には絶望していない!! 今がつまらないか…楽しいのか…平凡なのか…決めているのは現実じゃない。決めるのはボクだ!!ボクが望めば不可能はない!!」-桂木桂馬 "True, I've given up on the real world. However, I haven't given up on myself!! The world doesn't get to decide whether my life is boring, fun, or ordinary because that's my decision to make!! As long as I have the will, nothing is impossible!!" -Katsuragi Keima |
Briandias said: You know when this thread first made I don't really care about this cause I think the idea that tate which is technically pg 13 could ever make something like controversy... Well I guess I was mistaken, after watching chibi newest ep I kindda lost all hope in the sanity of people these day Most of the haters are social political activists, they're not anime fan. The majority of people don't give a fuck if there's rape, slavery or murder in their show. They are just plot device. |
Only_Brad said: Briandias said: You know when this thread first made I don't really care about this cause I think the idea that tate which is technically pg 13 could ever make something like controversy... Well I guess I was mistaken, after watching chibi newest ep I kindda lost all hope in the sanity of people these day Most of the haters are social political activists, they're not anime fan. The majority of people don't give a fuck if there's rape, slavery or murder in their show. They are just plot device. And a bad one to boot! |
FontSize72LOL said: copyrightRingo said: The amount of wokeness in this thread. Ugh. In what way this supports slavery? Raphtalia is hot? She levels up quickly because she's a slave? Give me a fucking break. None of these "reasons" points to supports slavery. Slavery refers to any situation in which an individual is de facto forced to work against their own will. There is a clear difference between abusing someone because she's a slave and having a trustable comrade despite her having a slave status. Honestly the work does more to criticise and rebuke slavery later on, but as with anything anime, people will cling to their myopic knee-jerk reaction on what is the anime equivalent of the introduction to the prologue AKA episode 1 of the show. I don't know how it rebukes slavery if slavery still exists and the hero doesn't do anything against despite his status AND despite the fact he is coming from our modern society. Or is slavery abolished at the end of the story ? |
| I hope there is more and more extra rape scene like Berserk in this anime, so that weebs will get more pissed and cut their balls. |
Ysad_Ziwezhan said: FontSize72LOL said: Honestly the work does more to criticise and rebuke slavery later on, but as with anything anime, people will cling to their myopic knee-jerk reaction on what is the anime equivalent of the introduction to the prologue AKA episode 1 of the show. I don't know how it rebukes slavery if slavery still exists and the hero doesn't do anything against despite his status AND despite the fact he is coming from our modern society. Or is slavery abolished at the end of the story ? The story explores on slaves on one arc. Is slavery abolished? It's illegal by law, but people are still doing it. |
| 「ボクは…確かに現実に絶望している。だけど、自分には絶望していない!! 今がつまらないか…楽しいのか…平凡なのか…決めているのは現実じゃない。決めるのはボクだ!!ボクが望めば不可能はない!!」-桂木桂馬 "True, I've given up on the real world. However, I haven't given up on myself!! The world doesn't get to decide whether my life is boring, fun, or ordinary because that's my decision to make!! As long as I have the will, nothing is impossible!!" -Katsuragi Keima |
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