Why Conservative when you can be Libertarian?

Mayling said:
Wow, thanks for an in depth answer! Made me understand american politics a lot more, and gave some nuances to the previous image of redneck, Trump-loving conservatives. Although it's very different from my political beliefs and how things work here in my country, it's always interesting to learn:)

code said:
I

Actually, the basic concepts are the opposite.
The left is for more government control, taking away freedoms for protection.
Putting laws in place to take away the right to discriminate, for instance.

xLemon said:


you've been online too much man, the left embraces socially liberal policies and tends to support alternative lifestyles a lot more than the right does. Gay marriage, women's lib, civil rights... you know, the basics of cultural liberation...

Thrashinuva said:
Trump's election was largely a free speech movement.

code said:
I'll never understand libertarian mindsets.

Thrashinuva said:
Trumps election was largely a free speech movement. In America since Obama had been elected, there had been a greater and greater stress on even regular people using "politically correct" words. It created "PC Culture". It's even the subject of nearly two seasons of South Park.

It's not as if conservatives, or Trump voters, believe in being mean. They simply want to say whatever they want, however they want to. As PC culture grew, the fear that certain terminology could become illegal started to grow, and bill of rights amendment #1 was triggered across America. At this point, when people saw a presidential candidate that literally said whatever he wanted, in whatever manner that he wanted to say it, well... let's just say that from my perspective Trump's victory was sealed as early as his first debate. America was ready for a loose tongued president, and he came right on queue. When "grab her by the pussy" was leaked, it ironically only fueled Trump's fanbase. It made more people who wanted to vote for him. It was supposed to make him drop out, simply because of the terminology he used, as if the president wasn't allowed to have free speech. So people voted with that in mind, not to condone Trump's actions, but to condone Trump's words.

code said:
But how do they achieve this?
Completely different.

Josh said:
I think of libertarianism as a myopic focus on individual rights/freedoms, to the exclusion of other important concerns. It's like progressives who have a myopic focus on social justice. Nazis being banned from YouTube is the free speech equivalent of "microagressions", i.e. who gives a shit. Most educated Westerners would agree that both individual rights/freedoms and social justice are worth pursuing, it's a question of relative importance with respect to other concerns.

Vicious said:

if that really is the reason people voted for Trump
they probably shouldn't be voting in the first place

that talking point is becoming an empty platitude
being openly vulgar isn't exactly an accomplishment

xLemon said:


those are just their platforms.

believe me, if you care about those things then the right isn't going to do much for you. They're tricky man, they seem like they've got it better, but they won't do anything for it.

Just ask Caitlyn Jenner if Trump is nice to Trans people. fun fact he probably fucking isn't.

traed said:

I'm talking about the political use not the metaphysical principal use that counters necessitarianism. It was still used and hijacked from the left by the right in the US in the 1960's rather than taking a separate path of origin from the metaphysics term. It was used by the right to appeal to the New Left. It still has it's original meaning in most of the world.

Liberalism covers classical liberalism, social liberalism, and liberal conservatism. They're all liberals. It's just the terms got shortened.

Frag- said:
If you haven't realized, that's pretty much what I said.

Things are relative, depends on the period and place you're using the terms.

code said:
What are you talking about?
I'm not right leaning.

Actually, I'm not sure what you're saying but I think I like you.

Vicious said:
if that really is the reason people voted for Trump
they probably shouldn't be voting in the first place

that talking point is becoming an empty platitude
being openly vulgar isn't exactly an accomplishment

Thrashinuva said:
It's precisely because so many people disagree with your particular outlook that we've come to the point we're at now.

Ikaros_42oh said:

"its not about his actions but his words"
He has the best actions! believe me!

Thrashinuva said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but you're sounding pretty mad right now.

Ikaros_42oh said:

oh man im so mad i could politically correct you all night long
grabsomepussy

Thrashinuva said:
Well damn. I guess you're just gonna have to deal with it then.

Ikaros_42oh said:

um excuse me did you just assume that im not dealing with it
why I never

and correct me if im wrong but youre sounding pretty cucked right now.

Thrashinuva said:
Sure you're wrong lol. I'm not even sure how to connect that to what I've said :-/

Ikaros_42oh said:

thats the cucking choking your brainwaves my dude

xLemon said:


Wellll how do you lean then? You seem to be arguing that the left takes a socially liberal platform but overcompensates in its desire to make these platforms legally realized, and thus actually creates a sort of 'PC authoritarian' culture. That the freedom to live out an alternative lifestyle will really be found on the right.

I'm saying that's bullshit. Freedoms are generally hard won and the enjoyment of them is different from the implementation of them. Especially when it's disenfranchised people fighting for them, which is obviously no fun for people who already have a comfortable lifestyle.

Seems like people (especially online) seem to like Trump sometimes for all the wrong reasons.

valoon said:
I would love to live in a libertarian country. Freedom ends where it invades the personal space of other people. However, as long as it doesn't, anything should be allowed.
Starting from homosexuality, over to drug use, everything should be legal as long as nobody is damaged by that (e.g. don't make out as gay couple in a church, or better don't make out as hetero couple there as well)
I think if the politics wouldn't be so conservative, people would enjoy freedom better and there would be more peace on the world.
But that's just my opinion.

Thrashinuva said:
I'm afraid you're gonna have to give me your reasoning behind that if you expect me to take you seriously... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ikaros_42oh said:

the joke and point was that its just as serious/reasonable as your mad comment
ugh, hate people that need jokes explained... classic cuck symptom even (see the joke was that thats a reason, as the way im using the word it doesnt really have a real meaning lol unlike mad, both not provable though), hope that lets you connect it better

code said:

The idea though is so silly to me. Freedom is good, yes. But there's a balance.
Too much freedom is actually restricting.

traed said:

But the whole time I was talking about etymology and history, not the different uses, which isn't relative.

code said:
I wasn't arguing any position.
I was just stating that the left is in favor of taking away freedoms for more protections.
Which is literally what a government does, it takes away personal freedom for protection.
The difference in left and right politics at their roots is how many freedoms they want to take away.

The left is in favor of more protection, both social and economic (regulations).

xLemon said:


ohh you weren't arguing right on dude.

Well i happen to disagree with your portrayal of the left but i guess that's okay.

Daddy-O said:
His portrayal of the left is literally factual my dude. Leftists would agree with that portrayal if they have any understanding of their own ideology.

Thrashinuva said:
Yeah that's about what I expected. The only surprise is that you understood that your joke was meaningless and mine actually meant something, so bravo to that, I don't think most people would be able to come to that conclusion. And that very well might sound condescending, but it is serious. I'm impressed.

Thrashinuva said:
Trumps election was largely a free speech movement. In America since Obama had been elected, there had been a greater and greater stress on even regular people using "politically correct" words. It created "PC Culture". It's even the subject of nearly two seasons of South Park.

It's not as if conservatives, or Trump voters, believe in being mean. They simply want to say whatever they want, however they want to. As PC culture grew, the fear that certain terminology could become illegal started to grow, and bill of rights amendment #1 was triggered across America. At this point, when people saw a presidential candidate that literally said whatever he wanted, in whatever manner that he wanted to say it, well... let's just say that from my perspective Trump's victory was sealed as early as his first debate. America was ready for a loose tongued president, and he came right on queue. When "grab her by the pussy" was leaked, it ironically only fueled Trump's fanbase. It made more people who wanted to vote for him. It was supposed to make him drop out, simply because of the terminology he used, as if the president wasn't allowed to have free speech. So people voted with that in mind, not to condone Trump's actions, but to condone Trump's words.

traed said:

Well there is Somalia. It stabilised a bit though but for a while their government was non functional. Not a great place to be though unless you're cool with poverty and armed children in militias. Other than that you have each of those individually in different countries but not all at once as far as I'm aware so it depends what you actually want to do. There also are micronations but they just about always aren't actually official and tend to not last long at all like a couple years tops. There also are unincorporated areas but these are just areas that dont have local authorities, it's still illegal to do things.

You said:
This questions tickles my mind quite long. Why people cling to many clingy social construct? This social construct are mostly unfair and just putting on pointless limit to human.

Pseudo_Nym said:


I think OP need to be more social to understand about the great effects of social on humans life and their nature.
humans can't build a nation without socialization, humans can't learn new things without socialization, humans can't live without socialization.
pls read any humans civilizations history, if OP can prove that there is a single human that could build a civilization or discover a new thing by himself, then I'll start to reconsider my perspective.
well, ofc the real one, not the supernatural/fantasy like a society/civilization you read in a fiction novel.

Ivich said:

posts like this illustrate why some amount of authoritarianism is necessary to protect liberty. because otherwise people will decide for you that "too much freedom" is a bad thing, and they will try their hardest to take it away from you

xLemon said:

yeah mmkay I don't think that saying the left advocates 'taking away freedoms' is exactly factual but okay whatever you say

You said:
But civilization progresses, conservatives take that progress like a snail.

code said:
That's actually what the purpose of a government is.
And the left is for more government control.
I didn't realize this was a subjective thing.

valoon said:


I guess I will just make my own country in the Arctis or so

traed said:


Antartica is owned by various countries neutrally or something I think. Youd more likely be able to buy an oil rig far out enough from shore youre on international waters but various micronationns tried that before. Micronnations always fail to get enough people involved. One used a ship and if I recall right the ship sank from a storm.

code said:
Let me state it differently.
Too much freedom would mean someone has the freedom to do whatever to you.
Does that sound good?

Soverign said:


http://www.one-small-world.com/top-10-historys-strangest-micronations-2/
Hmm, I didn't see the one where the dude proposed making a giant floating mass of styrofoam...

Hold on. I have to propose sanctions on Celestia. But, seriously, like if any of you are eccentric billionaires and go all Bioshock and shit. Like, hire me as a retainer okay? I am serious, I will sign up.

traed said:


I'm not even a 1 K heir. I tried to help plan a commune location before but no one did anything with it and that wouldnt be free from local laws.

Soverign said:


Hey man. I would even be cool with a commie commune. Now wait! Hear me out first right!? Look, I like killing commie scum, right? This as been established. Well, obviously you would hate some jealous commie traitors trying to usurp the dream, right? See? Match made in heaven right there, you know? Win-win scenario! I get to kill commies as the head of your Intelligence Apparatus and you get to be free of traitors and maintain your iron fisted control over the commune!