Clebardman said: @Terkhev Spiders physically disgust me. I don't want to wipe them off Earth, but I'm not delusional enough to think I'm not an arachnophobe. Well true, maybe "homophobe" is ok. But I still won't stand for "insecure" as it suggest lying to oneself. And tbh my main problem is fact that I got called something even though I didn't do anything bad. If I suddenly dropped in your house and said "you fear spiders and you should feel bad about it" how would you react? People have same right to dislike something as they have to like it. Telling ones who don't like gays that they are wrong isn't any different than if other side openly hated gays (with usual arguments we all heard too much). |
| Ok...let's pretend I think the ACT of homosexuality is utterly disgusting. Even at that...I don't believe I'd be "homophobic". I think various ACTS are disgusting in general. And besides all of that...most people ARE tolerant of gays... Acceptance is something else...most people are NOT accepting of gays. But again, there's a LOT of things people are tolerant of but not accepting. Here, let me list a few. >I tolerate abortion being legal because I believe in free choice...I absolutely do NOT accept abortion. >I tolerate religion...I do NOT accept religion...at all! >I tolerate people using recreational drugs if they wish to do so....I do not accept recreational drugs nor do I want any part of that. And so on. let me be Politically Incorrect....Homosexuality is not normal, that is the simple truth. Many straight males are disgusted by it because one of the most masculine traits is to like females, to do the opposite of that has an adverse effect on some of them and makes them react in a very negative manner. I'm not saying this behavior is acceptable I'm simply trying to explain it. |
| @Oshienai_Mo Very interesting post. Conservatism is a realistic stance. But realism is stagnant. It only avoids regression but is never conducive to progress. It's idealism, at the forefront of liberal philosophy, that we need to progress. Conservatives miss that point solely because liberals fail to be completely rational at everything -- well, guess what, so do the conservatives. kazuro said: Well nope I don't think like that... There is always a correct answer to everything ... If all the people in the world think murder is acceptable does not mean it is acceptable ... If all the people really did think that, then you won't be able to think the opposite without considerable strain on your mental health. Just like how you cannot right now think pedophilia being legal or rape being legal. There are a lot of fools in the world , And the main reason I don't usually reason with people is because it takes a lot of time , Reasoning might also not change anything , even if it does what will I get from changing a view of some stranger? Sometimes people even pick on you for saying the right thing , So you have to bear with it or use absolute violence like me ^_^.. It only takes a lot of time if you're stupid. Even with stupid people, reasoning can be done. It just has to be done differently. Do I need to explain? I think not. Unless you wield the mindset yourself, explanation is futile. I prefer to bear my own burdens. The burden of someone else's stupidity is his own. Voidd said: ''Only this once a serious attempt has been made to portray homosexuality'' you're generalizing that much when you only watched 38 anime LMAO. Thanks for the 1 profile view but you might want to dig up my other account which I keep solely for the list. This one is for foruming and only updating anime I'm currently watching. But to save your time: I've watched more than 150 animu. Thank you again. OneNaughtyBear said: Because a straight guy doesn't want to watch two gay dudes play with each other they're insecure about their sexuality. And you put "Anime community" in the title as if it's not like that in any medium... Or better yet, you say that as if it isn't like that in most of the world. #TrollLogicTheseDays It clearly didn't bother anyone when Hannibal expressed his feelings for Will Graham. GenesisAria said: @Trance I don't think you realize, that there's actually no precedent in japan for anti-homosexuality. Especially gay men, it was just a normal thing of normal life in the past, and many famous people in the past were known to be not exactly straight - including Nobunaga. The anti-homosexuality crept in once christianity started getting it's fingers into everything. But at any rate, homosexual guys are actually acknowledged to the point of just being background noise. Far more than lesbianism is. If any homosexuality has suppression in japan, it's lesbians. I hope you realize that the only remark I made about Japan was the one that it doesn't know how to respect eroticism. And that's generally the case in anime. Thanks for the other info. @JustAlex So the difference between tolerance and acceptance is that you can watch if happening, but won't do it yourself? Well, I can buy that. The problem, however, is still that there are some who simply can't watch it happening. Of course they don't want to erase it from existence. But averting your eyes from something, solely because it is what it is, is as good as saying that you don't want it in this world. scruffs said: Here's what i don't understand. How does watching a gay romantic anime make me less insecure about my heterosexuality? Well, that's because you don't understand what you read and have a very uncanny, and annoying, talent for strawmanning. |
TranceDec 11, 2016 5:51 AM
Trance said: so? you're still making a retarded generalization you fucking moron.@Oshienai_Mo Very interesting post. Conservatism is a realistic stance. But realism is stagnant. It only avoids regression but is never conducive to progress. It's idealism, at the forefront of liberal philosophy, that we need to progress. Conservatives miss that point solely because liberals fail to be completely rational at everything -- well, guess what, so do the conservatives. kazuro said: Well nope I don't think like that... There is always a correct answer to everything ... If all the people in the world think murder is acceptable does not mean it is acceptable ... If all the people really did think that, then you won't be able to think the opposite without considerable strain on your mental health. Just like how you cannot right now think pedophilia being legal or rape being legal. There are a lot of fools in the world , And the main reason I don't usually reason with people is because it takes a lot of time , Reasoning might also not change anything , even if it does what will I get from changing a view of some stranger? Sometimes people even pick on you for saying the right thing , So you have to bear with it or use absolute violence like me ^_^.. It only takes a lot of time if you're stupid. Even with stupid people, reasoning can be done. It just has to be done differently. Do I need to explain? I think not. Unless you wield the mindset yourself, explanation is futile. I prefer to bear my own burdens. The burden of someone else's stupidity is his own. Voidd said: ''Only this once a serious attempt has been made to portray homosexuality'' you're generalizing that much when you only watched 38 anime LMAO. Thanks for the 1 profile view but you might want to dig up my other account which I keep solely for the list. This one is for foruming and only updating anime I'm currently watching. But to save your time: I've watched more than 150 animu. Thank you again. OneNaughtyBear said: Because a straight guy doesn't want to watch two gay dudes play with each other they're insecure about their sexuality. And you put "Anime community" in the title as if it's not like that in any medium... Or better yet, you say that as if it isn't like that in most of the world. #TrollLogicTheseDays It clearly didn't bother anyone when Hannibal expressed his feelings for Will Graham. GenesisAria said: @Trance I don't think you realize, that there's actually no precedent in japan for anti-homosexuality. Especially gay men, it was just a normal thing of normal life in the past, and many famous people in the past were known to be not exactly straight - including Nobunaga. The anti-homosexuality crept in once christianity started getting it's fingers into everything. But at any rate, homosexual guys are actually acknowledged to the point of just being background noise. Far more than lesbianism is. If any homosexuality has suppression in japan, it's lesbians. I hope you realize that the only remark I made about Japan was the one that it doesn't know how to respect eroticism. And that's generally the case in anime. Thanks for the other info. @JustAlex So the difference between tolerance and acceptance is that you can watch if happening, but won't do it yourself? Well, I can buy that. The problem, however, is still that there are some who simply can't watch it happening. Of course they don't want to erase it from existence. But averting your eyes from something, solely because it is what it is, is as good as saying that you don't want it in this world. scruffs said: Here's what i don't understand. How does watching a gay romantic anime make me less insecure about my heterosexuality? Well, that's because you don't understand what you read and have a very uncanny, and annoying, talent for strawmanning. |
| @Trance You just proved my point about reasoning with others! Congratulations! I cannot reason with you ... It seems simple english and reason doesn't work .. Does that make you stupid? There are more than one kind of fools , Of course , People who cannot grasp the truth are just one of them ... Let me put it straight and end this ... Just Because you think something is right does not make it right ... I am not trying to make you correct yourself , Just try to be a bit more humble instead of Ridiculing opinions of people in this thread , And I know this might trigger some people but saying it bluntly "Homosexuality is an insult to life itself" .. Its a shame but I don't really have time to make you understand by writing long theories , I am not getting paid for it after all ... If at some point you are confused and fall in life (Just like you are confused about your sexuality) and are not able to get back up ... Just remember my Username on MAL ... I am off to do something useful now rather than sticking around this thread... |
KazuroWeisemannDec 11, 2016 6:37 AM
Voidd said: so? you're still making a retarded generalization you fucking moron. Examples against my case, please???? kazuro said: @Trance You just proved my point about reasoning with others! Congratulations! I cannot reason with you ... It seems simple english and reason doesn't work .. Does that make you stupid? There are more than one kind of fools , Of course , People who cannot grasp the truth are just one of them ... Let me put it straight and end this ... Just Because you think something is right does not make it right ... I am not trying to make you correct yourself , Just try to be a bit more humble instead of Ridiculing opinions of people in this thread , And I know this might trigger some people but saying it bluntly "Homosexuality is an insult to life itself" .. Its a shame but I don't really have time to make you understand by writing long theories , I am not getting paid for it after all ... If at some point you are confused and fall in life (Just like you are confused about your sexuality) and are not able to get back up ... Just remember my Username on MAL ... I am off to do something useful now rather than sticking around this thread... Actual reasoning will be very much preferred over holier-than-thou comments, please. Because I think something is right, and then defend my claim whereas you don't, I stand right. It's common sense. @JustArsan You get points for criticizing the anime. Now then, it is made quite clear, with so many allusions, that Victor is into Yuri too. Why else do you think he says that Yuri makes music with his body while he skates? and the simple fact that Victor behaves like that around Yuri is sufficient to defend the claim that this anime has made it quite clear that they're both into each other. As to your other point: The anime, quite clearly, is portraying a homosexual relationship in an ideal world where no one has any qualms with homosexuality. We don't need a realistic portrayal of homo relationships here because the reality is insulting enough to them already. Nor does a realistic portrayal even fits in with the atmosphere of the show (high & optimistic). Plenty of hetero-romance shows are out there that shun reality to paint a goofy romance (goofy does not imply 'bad') yet no objections are raised to them because apparently, it's quite normal for 'perfect' hetero relationships to exist but a perfect homo relationship, without people hurling shit on them, is inconceivable. I'm seeing all the pertinent development happening because I'm not concerned with drawing comparisons with the real world. In the anime, the world of the anime itself defines its limits. As long as my reason isn't outraged by its world (looking at Satoru's reaction to his mom's dead body in Boku Dake), I accept the rules given me by the anime itself. |
Trance said: basis to you're generalization please????Voidd said: so? you're still making a retarded generalization you fucking moron. Examples against my case, please???? kazuro said: @Trance You just proved my point about reasoning with others! Congratulations! I cannot reason with you ... It seems simple english and reason doesn't work .. Does that make you stupid? There are more than one kind of fools , Of course , People who cannot grasp the truth are just one of them ... Let me put it straight and end this ... Just Because you think something is right does not make it right ... I am not trying to make you correct yourself , Just try to be a bit more humble instead of Ridiculing opinions of people in this thread , And I know this might trigger some people but saying it bluntly "Homosexuality is an insult to life itself" .. Its a shame but I don't really have time to make you understand by writing long theories , I am not getting paid for it after all ... If at some point you are confused and fall in life (Just like you are confused about your sexuality) and are not able to get back up ... Just remember my Username on MAL ... I am off to do something useful now rather than sticking around this thread... Actual reasoning will be very much preferred over holier-than-thou comments, please. Because I think something is right, and then defend my claim whereas you don't, I stand right. It's common sense. @JustArsan You get points for criticizing the anime. Now then, it is made quite clear, with so many allusions, that Victor is into Yuri too. Why else do you think he says that Yuri makes music with his body while he skates? and the simple fact that Victor behaves like that around Yuri is sufficient to defend the claim that this anime has made it quite clear that they're both into each other. As to your other point: The anime, quite clearly, is portraying a homosexual relationship in an ideal world where no one has any qualms with homosexuality. We don't need a realistic portrayal of homo relationships here because the reality is insulting enough to them already. Nor does a realistic portrayal even fits in with the atmosphere of the show (high & optimistic). Plenty of hetero-romance shows are out there that shun reality to paint a goofy romance (goofy does not imply 'bad') yet no objections are raised to them because apparently, it's quite normal for 'perfect' hetero relationships to exist but a perfect homo relationship, without people hurling shit on them, is inconceivable. I'm seeing all the pertinent development happening because I'm not concerned with drawing comparisons with the real world. In the anime, the world of the anime itself defines its limits. As long as my reason isn't outraged by its world (looking at Satoru's reaction to his mom's dead body in Boku Dake), I accept the rules given me by the anime itself. |
| Would you look at that, a liberal kid with no experience in life labeling people homophobic left and right, they're entitled to their opinions, your PC opinions aren't any more correct than theirs. |
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| @Voidd My experience? duh. You can only generalize the data available to you. And if you have anything against that generalization, it's some data that refutes my generalization. Otherwise you're just a salty twat. @Raito Would you look at that, a 12 year old kid with no experience in argumentation labeling people inexperienced left and right, they're entitled to their opinions, your stupid opinions aren't any more correct than theirs. But perhaps, it is evident enough which side is the winner considering that the conservative side has thus far avoided debate and has instead resorted to ad hominem and making comments. Debate, my dear, give me a debate. Not comments. Too many people have commented already. I want arguments now. |
Trance said: Would you look at that, a 12 year old kid with no experience in argumentation labeling people inexperienced left and right, they're entitled to their opinions, your stupid opinions aren't any more correct than theirs. But perhaps, it is evident enough which side is the winner considering that the conservative side has thus far avoided debate and has instead resorted to ad hominem and making comments. Debate, my dear, give me a debate. Not comments. Too many people have commented already. I want arguments now. There's nothing to debate, it's my opinion versus yours, both of equal value. You're free to think the way you think and so am I. Grow up. |
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| @Trance Reasoning you ask? Can't you freaking read? So many people are denying your logic and trying to get you to understand , And you are just labeling them as Homophobic or Insecure .. Are you actually ignoring peoples comments? Raito said: Would you look at that, a liberal kid with no experience in life labeling people homophobic left and right, they're entitled to their opinions, your PC opinions aren't any more correct than theirs. This man here said what needs to be said... |
Trance said: No you idiot i claimed nothing the burden of proof is on you for you're dumb generalization, ohhh nice you're whole opinion is based on the Anecdotal fallacy.@Voidd My experience? duh. You can only generalize the data available to you. And if you have anything against that generalization, it's some data that refutes my generalization. Otherwise you're just a salty twat. @Raito Would you look at that, a 12 year old kid with no experience in argumentation labeling people inexperienced left and right, they're entitled to their opinions, your stupid opinions aren't any more correct than theirs. But perhaps, it is evident enough which side is the winner considering that the conservative side has thus far avoided debate and has instead resorted to ad hominem and making comments. Debate, my dear, give me a debate. Not comments. Too many people have commented already. I want arguments now. |
| this thread disgusts me, romance has always been shallow in anime, and people have been complaining about it for years, but noo it always has to do with hate for homosexuality, even when there is none people will find it somewhere something like that? idk :p never watched yuri on ice because it doesn't seem to fit my preferences so i cant say anything serious on it |
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Raito said: There's nothing to debate, it's my opinion versus yours, both of equal value. You're free to think the way you think and so am I. Grow up. I guess this is the day the INTJ link in my profile comes in handy: “You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” What I'm giving you are my arguments, not my opinions. They are to be respected because they are arguments, not rejected because they are opinions. Respect my arguments by refuting them or countering them. You will get the same respect from me. @kazuro Will you stop being a sensitive pussy for a minute and actually try to construct an argument instead of pointing me to the countless imaginary master debaters who have refuted me so far? @Voidd My proof is the 150 anime I've watched. If you wish to go over my proof, I can PM you the link. Now the onus is on you to refute my generalization by giving me a counterexample. JustArsan said: @Trance Allusions as in monologues while he watches Yuri's performance? Quite meaningless imo. In that sense we could also take Yuri's scene before the first competition in which he asks to move more feminine as exposition. Also no. I don't see that as sufficient. At least not as long as more than half of your "allusions" are simple comedy sketches. We could also just put comments like the one you mentioned to Victor praising his efforts, no? There is never a real statement of affection made. Neither in monologue nor dialogue. Any statement of affection gives us as much information about their affection as their actions already do. A solemn confession isn't going to make their relationship any more serious or official than it already is. Maybe, at the height of climax, one of them does comes outright with it but what then? would it be anything unexpected? The only thing that would've happened is something you were already anticipating. And the fact that you were anticipating it says enough that the anime has made clear to you that they're both in love -- which goes against your objection. How to you come to the conclusion that it's portraying the ideal world? How even can you make an assumption that a realistic approach doesn't fit the tone of the show? Yuri on Ice starts up quite serious with Yuri crying to himself because he can't handle the pressure. We also see Yuri shying away from many of Victors innuendos. Now what keeps the anime from making that an actual plot point? You don't have to strike a highly pessimistic tone to portray realistic character development in any way. But let's humor that thought. It STILL would not make the anime any better of a romance portrayal since there still is no actual exposition outside of 1-lined teasing in _two_ important scenes and otherwise only comic relief. That a realistic approach doesn't fit is your opinion and a completely unsupported one at that. In what kind of world does everything move at a breakneck pace, with 15 year old kids competing with 25 years old and actually excelling (in sports -- a physical fucking sport; not the usual indoor stuff)?? The better question is: What makes you think this anime is going for a realistic story? Try answering that question and you will see that my opinion is shared by the anime itself. Now which hetero-romance shows are you alluding to if I may ask. Because I assume you're not talking about romance-focussed shows. You're talking about anime that feature a hetereosexuell realtionship, but are actually comedies, mysteries, are couples outside of the main-character-cast. There's no point in arguing about that since the claim about Yuri on Ice was, that it is mainly a homosexuell romance anime and thus fit neither criteria. Hetereosexuell romance anime that likewise contain that romance in innuendo alone would be just as bad. Baccano (Isaac & Miria -- perfect fucking chemistry), JJ & his gf in YoI itself lol, every fkn relationship in Fairy fucking Tail, TTGL (someone's wife x someone -- I forgot that someone's name). This is all I can remember on the top of my head and this is saying much because these hetero relationship don't really stand out. And if I could count this many on the top of my head, it says a lot. |
| @JustArsan Well, their intimate, oft-occurring, hugs, in my opinion, aren't exactly comedic and also get the point across. And not to mention the constant ruminations about each other when they're not together, the disturbances in Yuri's performance when Victor is not present, their willingness to do things for each other (like Yuri mentally dedicating his performance to Victor), and their general behavior towards each other -- all of this, and more, isn't an attempt at comedy and are clear-cut indicators of love. If the anime isn't choosing to make them kiss, it's probably because it doesn't want romance to be the main aspect of it????? However the anime did already deal with thematics such as pressure of professional sports like in the very first episode. Yuuri's breakdowns while perfecting his choreogrophy, heck even some of his monologues when he panicks about messing up his step sequence. Because it's a sports anime?????? and only treats romance as a side project????? |
| Watch Yuri!!! on Ice. ............ |
| When did this become a fucking tumblr? |
Trance said: Based on what? Sure anime tends to use a lot of ecchi, and hentai tend to abuse the use of sex to an extreme degree.I hope you realize that the only remark I made about Japan was the one that it doesn't know how to respect eroticism. And that's generally the case in anime. If you want properly handled eroticism, then the domain for that is Visual Novels. Many visual novels have like 95% story and 5% justified and fully depicted sex (minus censorship). Japan knows how to handle eroticism better than most, anime just doesn't take advantage of that, because it's not the market for it. There is a sore lack of proper Yuri anime, and Yaoi tends to be more fujoshhi-bait than taken seriously, but that's fine. |
❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power.  “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
Clebardman said: @Terkhev Spiders physically disgust me. I don't want to wipe them off Earth, but I'm not delusional enough to think I'm not an arachnophobe. That's interesting. From my point of view disgust is related to image, and a spider's body looks interesting enough for me to be able to at least appreciate how it looks. I don't fear worms because they can't do me any harm, but they disgust me because they look disgusting to me. And yet I fear spiders because they can hurt me, but they don't disgust me because they look perfectly okay to me. |
ColtBuntlineDec 11, 2016 2:03 PM
| “Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.” ― Saint Augustine |
JustALEX said: Ok...let's pretend I think the ACT of homosexuality is utterly disgusting. Even at that...I don't believe I'd be "homophobic". your credibility flew out the window in two sentences, bud |
    thanks @grimace for the jon stamp i love you |
| I really think you have to step outside for a bit if you think that the anime community is opposed to homosexuality. Because from my experience the usual human being hates gay people in general way more than the average anime fan. |
JustArsan said: @Trance Clear-cut? No. The things you just mentioned largely come down to either interpretations or the fanservice people accuse Yuri on Ice of. E.g. the oft-occuring hugs outside of the ends of Yuri's performances or the scenes leading up to those are most often accompanied with the comedic teasing of Victor. Constant ruminations? Nothing particular comes to mind tbh. "Willingness to do things for each other" like Yuri commenting for his love on pork cutlet bowl? That's the breaking point for many people I believe. Because what else are you referring to here other than Yuri saying "well look only at me!" - when he does his performances which may as well not be a romantic indicator but cut also be tied to his professionalism and dream as a skater and that exactly is the problem! There are sparse moments of romance followed by comedy and there are more than enough moments of love followed by nothing at all. Even if we take the sparse cases of comedy following romance, it's kind of moronic to deem the comedy as a negation of the romance that preceded it. I think your claim in previous posts was that YoI was primarily a romance anime. No, it wasn't. The onus of not misunderstanding my arguments is on you. Not only that, but a sports anime that doesn't want to focus on their romantic relationship. It doesn't want to focus on the kind of romance that is validated by you but it does focus on the romance that it actually wants to focus on. The daily YoI topics are never about determining whether there are romantic feelings between the protagonists or not because it really only takes ~80 IQ level to deduce that they both have feelings for each other -- unless of course you wish to be an idiot. Frankly I don't know. ftfy. Because everyone apart from you does know. Sexiness is one of the main aspects the show transfers it's romantic exposition. Hugs. Kisses. Innuendos. The homosexuality is only still implied through those aforementioned scenes, but even if confirmed are not developed, which is the main gripe many people including myself have with the show. The fact that they are homosexuell isn't part of the equation. It's about a romantic couple being pushed into the foreground without much needed development around them. Since when did hugs and kisses start being sexy? and if this is all sexy then wtf is actually romantic? And yes. It's a focus of the show which is why I grew to dislike the show as well, because I agree that YoI primarily is (or at least should be) a sports anime, but the sports aspect at this point is only a side-attraction -> an entire episode about a misunderstanding surrounding the rings. Fujobaiting throughout the actual tournament sequences. There were episodes in Kuroko no Basuke which weren't about basketball at all. Are we to say that KnB wasn't a sports anime??? As I see it, there are 2 types of criticism surrounding your topic. On one side people saying: "I don't like homosexual romances in anime because it's not my preference." - which I don't think there's any point in arguing about. It's just stating your disinterest in a subgenre. Nothing wrong with it and it's most certainly not homophobic as well. And the second one which was my post directed at: The problem is not the homosexuality, but the execution. Imo, regardless what you think about YoI, I thought it had a badly executed romance aspect. Thus I disliked the homosexual romance [insert reasons why] -> Does that criticism make people homophobic? No, because clearly people are open to viewing such a romance, but NOT in the setting/anime that were provided so far. If I were hard-pressed to call out a good Yuri anime, the only one among the nearly 500 anime I watched would be Aoi Hana. Now we can argue about high standards or the influence of either fanservice or fujoshibait - but at the most superficial level that's what's being said, is it not? I addressed both the critiques. If you aren't watching YoI solely because it has homo-romance in it, then it is clearly homophobic. You don't have to be a homosexual to watch something with homo innuendos in it. Otherwise, I urge you to stop living in this world too because we have homosexuals living around here as well. Averting your gaze because it is not something that you are yourself (not using the word 'attracted' here; that almost never matters because most of the things we watch are not our 'attractions' -- I'm not attracted to drug or do meth myself but I'm watching Breaking Bad). A topic exists (homosexuality) and you choose to ignore because you're not it?? Wtf The other critique was addressed in the following manner: The anime, quite clearly, is portraying a homosexual relationship in an ideal world where no one has any qualms with homosexuality. We don't need a realistic portrayal of homo relationships here because the reality is insulting enough to them already. Nor does a realistic portrayal even fits in with the atmosphere of the show (high & optimistic). Plenty of hetero-romance shows are out there that shun reality to paint a goofy romance (goofy does not imply 'bad') yet no objections are raised to them because apparently, it's quite normal for 'perfect' hetero relationships to exist but a perfect homo relationship, without people hurling shit on them, is inconceivable. You can plead subjectivity here but I'm pretty sure that if we ask the producers of the anime itself, they'd acquiesce with me; thereby your expectations from the show are misplaced and hence stupidly subjective, not merely subjective. @Gator & @SuperIdolNico The topic isn't homophobia, it's homophobia (or implicit forms of it) in anime community. The other groups simply aren't concerned here. @GenesisAria That's not really eroticism. That'd be smut. Eroticism is more like... hmmm.. do you know of kama sutra?? something like that is what falls under eroticism. |
drgy55 said: TheBrainintheJar said: Isn't Yaoi all about sexual gratification? Of course it doesn't really 'respect' homosexuals'. Yes, that's what I was getting at without saying it directly. My main point is that homosexual-themed anime doesn't HAVE to be about sexual gratification (i.e. Yuri master race) but in the case of Yaoi, that's all the fans care about. OP's defense of Yuri on Ice is sort of like the defense of an oblivious male feminist: it's defending someone who doesn't actually support your stance at all lol. I was sure Yuri/Yaoi is just Hentai, only with LGBT characters. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| Lol at all those manly man throwing tantrums because they hate gay relationships, but are okay with yuri because what, they are hot? I think it's like what you want and hate what you want. There are many girls who like shounen-ai, yaoi and similar (I refuse to use term fujoshi, it's disgusting) and they are being laughed at (at many polls, like Owari no Seraph for example, even though I don't ship the most popular pairing). But then again those who are laughing, discriminating them are defending ecchi and harem genre? Most girls don't like ecchi genre, from what I've seen. So if you are ready to call certain people 'fujoshis' and animes 'fujo bait' then be mature enough and accept that you'll be called perv and similar by those people. (Times are changing, gay relationships were impossible to even imagine with someone before, that's how strict human life used to be. And even though there are people who are disciminating them, calling them faggots and what not there are still many that are accepting them, are friends with them and look at them like they are normal people, which they are. Again, times are changing, and people should be what they really are, because we all have only one life) /rant over ..why is lesbianism excluded from this discussion? |
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Because no one objects to it. Men like it because it's hot and women simply aren't insecure about their sexuality to criticize it illogically. |
Trance said: Because no one objects to it. Men like it because it's hot and women simply aren't insecure about their sexuality to criticize it illogically. *nods* I see, makes sense. I have yet to see thread made by shoujo-ai/yuri haters. Though, the 'yuri' they are enjoying is girl groping other girl's breasts, huh? |
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Chikaji said: JustALEX said: Ok...let's pretend I think the ACT of homosexuality is utterly disgusting. Even at that...I don't believe I'd be "homophobic". your credibility flew out the window in two sentences, bud Did you read what I said after that? How someone can be Tolerant but at the same time not Accept the action? |
SuperIdolNico said: @Trance You misunderstood what I was saying, that's what I was pointing at the whole time. That anime community is relatively more tolerant is a fact I don't deny. But here are still people who despite pretending to accept homosexuality are against it for some skewed reasons. That's all I wish to address. |
pkKodama said: JustALEX said: Since when do males have such a feminine face? Feminine voice? And feminine body curves? He doesn't have a feminine face and he doesn't have feminine body curves. He's just pretty. The reason he is mistaken for a girl is because he has a feminine voice and feminine behaviors. And also because being pretty is often mistaken with being feminine. Hachiman is ugly himself, and he's used to only seeing ugly boys too. And then when he finally finds a pretty boy he thinks it's a girl. No way....he's not just "pretty"....the creators purposely made Saika into a very feminine looking and sounding character on purpose. Because traps are popular. Hideyoshi had more fans than the two main heroines in Baka to Test! Other trap characters have enjoyed a lot of popularity as well.  ^No way in hell can a male in real life look like this. It's just yet another example of 2D > 3D |
There's a reason for this, and it has to do with the fanbase, not with the genres. Saying females are more sexually secure is the silliest thing I've ever heard, 90% of the Yaoi fanbase actively hates on other female characters and I talked to one who wouldn't cosplay as female characters because, and I quote, "I don't find them attractive". The Yaoi fanbase is what many people (not just guys, girls too) dislike, not the fact that there are gay relationships. :P |
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JustALEX said: Did you read what I said after that? How someone can be Tolerant but at the same time not Accept the action? did i take the time to read your attempt to try to justify your "not homophobia" after you explicitly stated that you, theoretically, think two guys going at it is "utterly disgusting?" yes, i did, and it was one of the most bs things ive read in my entire life. you might wanna look up the definition of the word tolerant while youre at it. one more thing while im nice and pissed from a wonderful day at school: JustALEX said: let me be Politically Incorrect....Homosexuality is not normal, that is the simple truth. apart from that sentence being one of the most used "facts" by blatant homophobes, over 1500 species of animals demonstrate gay behavior. but only 1 species contributes to homophobia. i wonder which one that is?? so yeah, look me in the eye and tell me sticking your dick into a fleshlight in a hopeless attempt to relieve yourself from the mental anguish of living in your mother's basement is more "normal" than two people of the same gender in a respectful, loving, healthy relationship. |
bucketofwormsDec 12, 2016 4:29 PM
| thanks @grimace for the jon stamp i love you |
drgy55 said: +1 for the fanbase. I personally have 0 problems with gay people, however when some (or fans) decide to make threads like these and say males who don't want to watch other males kiss or play with each other, insecure about their own sexuality is just stupid. While browsing the forums for this anime, https://myanimelist.net/anime/30346/Doukyuusei_Movie. I found a quote the immediately made me think of this thread. It came from some triggered yaoi fan who completely took the question out of context and responded by being some sarcastic asshole. There's a reason for this, and it has to do with the fanbase, not with the genres. Saying females are more sexually secure is the silliest thing I've ever heard, 90% of the Yaoi fanbase actively hates on other female characters and I talked to one who wouldn't cosplay as female characters because, and I quote, "I don't find them attractive". The Yaoi fanbase is what many people (not just guys, girls too) dislike, not the fact that there are gay relationships. :P TheHollowShrine said: Like what?... The OP of that thread simply asked if the movie was hardcore when it come to the actually yaoi portion. He even said he didn't mind light kissing. No, half the movie is hardcore gay sex. Sex swings, creampies, toys, fisting too. Straight people shouldn't watch it or they'll get infected and turn gay! When will people understand that because a straight male does not want to watch two gay males kiss and play with each other that does not make them insecure about themselves or a yaoi hater. That's the same as watching a horror movie but you hate the sight of people dying. You either like it or you don't. And of course these same males would like Yuri over Yaoi. In most cases a straight male would enjoy sexual activity between women. The only thing I agree with in these "Anime community=Homophobes" threads is that it's not ok to bash yaoi anime just because it's yaoi. If you don't like the genre then don't be apart of anything that has to do with the genre. I will never watch a yaoi show, just like I will never be apart of a discussion for a yaoi show. So the people in those Yuri On Ice threads saying the show would be sexier/better if there was a female cast probably are insecure. If you don't like Yaoi, why are you watching the show? However saying a male is insecure or a homophobe just because they don't want to watch the genre is ridiculous. |
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| I think it's more that there are a lack of more traditionally male characters in anime compared to androgynous and effeminate characters in anime in general and traditionally male characters usually don't even exist in BL/Yaoi works. Also BL or Yaoi anime is typically targeted towards heterosexual females and created by heterosexual females. While there is homosexual material targeted toward homosexual men by homosexual men, specifically "Bara", I don't think there has ever been any anime which has characters that could be considered "Bara". So yeah... yaoi and BL in anime anyway are made by straight women for straight women and men, gay or not don't really play any part in it. That being said, I'm still having a decent time with Yuri!!!on Ice. I just happen to really enjoy the director and her style and an underdog story just works. I don't particularly care for the romance or SoL aspects of the show, but I wouldn't say it's queer-bait. If anything its fujoshi-bait. |
LoneWolfDec 12, 2016 6:32 PM
 "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
Also BL or Yaoi anime is typically targeted towards heterosexual females and created by heterosexual females. Exactly. There's a reason demographics are a thing. While I've read some Yaoi, I avoid it almost always. That doesn't make me homophobe or sexually insecure. Know what else I often avoid? Shoujo. But yup, at average girls are more okay with lesbian romances than guys with gay romances. There is nothing silly. There is a reason about why there is yuri published somewhat regularly in generalist shōjo/josei magazine, while you have at best one or two yaoi by decade in generalist shōnen/seinen magazines, and not any kind of yaoi, the otokonoko sub-genre (yaoi with cross-dressing). And that reason is because at average girls are more okay with lesbianism than guys with gay-ism. There is nothing new here. That's also why it's not unfrequent to see yuri fan-service in non-yuri shōjo/josei manga, like here extremely in your face or simply seeing girls blushing on each others Absolutely true. But that's where society comes in. Skinship between girls is a lot more accepted and seen as natural than between guys. |
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lady_freyja said: drgy55 said: There's a reason for this, and it has to do with the fanbase, not with the genres. Saying females are more sexually secure is the silliest thing I've ever heard, 90% of the Yaoi fanbase actively hates on other female characters and I talked to one who wouldn't cosplay as female characters because, and I quote, "I don't find them attractive". The Yaoi fanbase is what many people (not just guys, girls too) dislike, not the fact that there are gay relationships. :P "90%", I like that kind of baseless numbers. Especially when you know that the majority of women reading yuri magazines are also reading yaoi magazines to the point that Yuri Hime was full of yaoi ads before its merge with Yuri Hime S. And the female readership of yuri is the dominant one, the male readership being the minor one. And extrapolating the average female anime/manga fans from the average yaoi fans is silly. But yup, at average girls are more okay with lesbian romances than guys with gay romances. There is nothing silly. There is a reason about why there is yuri published somewhat regularly in generalist shōjo/josei magazine, while you have at best one or two yaoi by decade in generalist shōnen/seinen magazines, and not any kind of yaoi, the otokonoko sub-genre (yaoi with cross-dressing). And that reason is because at average girls are more okay with lesbianism than guys with gay-ism. There is nothing new here. That's also why it's not unfrequent to see yuri fan-service in non-yuri shōjo/josei manga, like here extremely in your face or simply seeing girls blushing on each others. (I like that double page: 1, 2 where 2 girls blush on a third one like it's normal) In comparison, I wonder how much yaoi fan-service you find in regular shōnen/seinen manga… hmm… Hmm I mean, I was specifically talking about yaoi fans and yuri fans. That was unclear I guess but yah I'm not bring your average girl into the discussion. 90% is entirely baseless, yes, I like hyperbole, sue me :P My main point is the difference between the two fanbases, though, and the attitudes are clearly different. As for your thing about yuri fanservice, yah, of course it's more prevalent. In real life, girls do, in fact, hug and touch more than guys. That's a female thing. When guys do it, that's kind of weird. Like, no homo bro! |
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lady_freyja said: drgy55 said: 90% is entirely baseless, yes, I like hyperbole, sue me :P My main point is the difference between the two fanbases, though, and the attitudes are clearly different. How so? There is a tons of yuri fans who panic when they see a guy in a yuri manga. That's why most yuri are actually with an all-girls casting… I think that was you who were bothered by that trope no? If I remember well, there was even a boycott call for Prince Prince which is a love-triangle between two girls and one boy (a cross-dresser to boot), because hell, there is boy in it! I don't see how it's any different from your average fujoshi who don't like seeing a girl in her yaoi. Well, tbh I get heated when thinking about fujoshis, but I'll try to talk about this in a civil manner since you're not involved in my personal experiences lol. Yes, it is true that if a big yuri fan sees a guy in a yuri she can freak out and vice versa. I was actually the one who WANTED a main male character in the show who is ignored by the girl in favor of another girl. I dislike all-girl casts, if you remember that's one of the tropes I pointed out in my thread that I find cheesy and unrealistic. Regardless, I don't really hate that opinion too much, I mean I think it's weird since I personally don't care, but I get it. Yaoi fans want guys, Yuri fans want girls, alright. Now, what I'm talking about is general rudeness and lack of respect. I have many examples. They comment on Yuri specific videos and threads talking about how much they love Yaoi, or "This would be so much better if the lead singer was Light Yagami <3". They often hate on female characters regardless of genre (a couple fujoshis admitted to me they would love Mikasa Ackerman if she was a guy, for example, and say she is super annoying and a terrible character). They find the most absurd ships in the most obscure places and latch onto that, ignoring the rest of the show. I don't know dude, maybe you haven't had any negative experiences with them, but I've had enough to go from literally not caring at all about the fanbase to loathing them, so that should say something. Conversely, I've never heard anyone complain about a Yuri fan getting in their face, or being obnoxious in places other than Yuri-specific forums, or hating on male characters in a Shoujo, etc. |
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