Fullmetal Alchemist
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| Simply awesome. I do have to agree with Al not getting enough attention, it sucks D: |
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| Holy shit, Hohenheim!#@$% Like, what?!?! :OOOO Awesome cliffhanger that is. Mustang was such a badass this ep. Loved his epicness. |
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| OMG! That was so epic that I think I need to re-adjust all my ratings. I still have a slight buzz from it. |
KapuskyAug 10, 2009 11:41 AM
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Fai said: noteDhero said: As much as I like Al here more than in the first show, he's almost equally useless. He can do alchemy without a circle, and basically only manages to create a spear, and then be an iron shield for Riza. I really wish they'd do more with him. Thats because the anime studio tends to cut out all Al scenes...Which is sad...really... As for Hohenheim stuff, blame anime rearrangement... In the manga: First we have the whole Lust/Mustang/Havoc stuff (alongside the cut out Envy/Gluttony/Pride/Ling/RanFan/Fu encounter) in the underground. Then we have Ed at Xerxes plot, which latter culminates with him meeting Hohenheim at Risembool. If they did all according to manga, Hohenheim scene would not feel so...out of place. exactly which is why i wish they wouldnt reveal stuff before the manga did.....it makes more sense the manga's way |
noteDhero said: I don't think the Barry scene was necessary, unless his body comes back for something, but even then, that surprise is gone. His "death" earlier was much better, and the end just takes away from that. besides being important, it was better - for that one second it was shown he was alive, there was hope that Barry could be fixed, THEN he died. Besides, his death was much more telling and better written than a fodder death at the hands of Lust. Alright, do this: write down the two death scenes, and ask someone which is better. As for Hohenheim, I know it's important, but it was random nonetheless, and incongruent to the tone of the episode. Maybe they should have done it in 18. First, having that scene in 18 would destroy the cliffhanger in 18; second, episode 19 wasn't about Hohenheim - anime is less forgiving of nonlinear timelines than manga; third, it was supposed to be incongruent, because the next episode supposedly will have a different tone than this one. Note how the tone in the end of 18 matches with this episode - i.e. nothing wrong with shifts in tones, scenes, as long as they are done well. |
| That's your opinion that it was better. I don't think it was. It was trite to make the first death a fake out, just to kill him again. And then for him to be killed by his body, which was another fake out, made it overkill. I don't think it was better, I think it was overdone. The show has done abrupt deaths better. This was just dumb. But if it's important as Fai says it is, then whatever, it's not really going to matter, depending on the way things turn out. Not if they did it before the cliffihanger in 18, somewhere during 19, or right at the beginning of 20. Not every episode has to end with a "OMG" cliffhanger. Self contained episodes are fun too. As for the end of 18, it wasn't a discordant ending because they had been flipping back and forth between that mission and Xerxes the whole episode. But you're right, there is nothing wrong with shifts in tone and scenes as long as they're done right. I don't think it's really done right in this show, as it's been a complaint of mine since episode one. The episodes that I think are done well in Brotherhood are the ones that stick to one tone throughout: The melancholy of Scar vs Ed & Al; desperation in the Hughes episode; levity in the Rush Valley episode; and for the most part, the determinaiton of this episode (I'll ignore Jean's comic relief part with the boobs). |
noteDhero said: That's your opinion that it was better. I don't think it was. It was trite to make the first death a fake out, just to kill him again. And then for him to be killed by his body, which was another fake out, made it overkill. I don't think it was better, I think it was overdone. The show has done abrupt deaths better. This was just dumb. But if it's important as Fai says it is, then whatever, it's not really going to matter, depending on the way things turn out. Not if they did it before the cliffihanger in 18, somewhere during 19, or right at the beginning of 20. Not every episode has to end with a "OMG" cliffhanger. Self contained episodes are fun too. As for the end of 18, it wasn't a discordant ending because they had been flipping back and forth between that mission and Xerxes the whole episode. But you're right, there is nothing wrong with shifts in tone and scenes as long as they're done right. I don't think it's really done right in this show, as it's been a complaint of mine since episode one. The episodes that I think are done well in Brotherhood are the ones that stick to one tone throughout: The melancholy of Scar vs Ed & Al; desperation in the Hughes episode; levity in the Rush Valley episode; and for the most part, the determinaiton of this episode (I'll ignore Jean's comic relief part with the boobs). i cant remember for sure but i dont remember ever reading the boob part in the manga....i didnt care much for that part...but loved the rest of the episode |
fisher_88 said: eyerok said: The new series is pretty good but it feels a bit rushed. It gets -1 for badpacing Details please, as to why this episode was badly paced. I don't understand. Like I said, its too fast, especially compared to the original series. I do understand rushing it in the first few episode so they could be over with whatever story the original anime followed, but the episodes after are a bit fast-paced as well. Now whether or not thats a bad thing is probably subjective so my opinion might not be in the majority. But thats how I feel, thats all. |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| oh god can it be more epic >< i totally love this one, mustangs fight and then the end. man thats a cool cliffhanger. but strangely i didnt feel its rushed. imo the first was a bit too slow so i am fine with the way it is. |
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Kiseki said: oh god can it be more epic >< i totally love this one, mustangs fight and then the end. man thats a cool cliffhanger. but strangely i didnt feel its rushed. imo the first was a bit too slow so i am fine with the way it is. yeah I guess thats true; the first one took about a 20 eps to really pick up. But its unusual for animes to have this sort of a pace...kinda reminds me of Avatar lol...not that its a bad thing. I've only started watching it 2 days ago so i might get used to it in a few days when I have to wait7 days for the next episode to come out. Then I'll probably be thanking them for making it faster-paced :P |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| On Barry: Well, it's generally a rule that nonfodder characters deserve nonfodder deaths. And where was the first fakeout - Lust didn't cut up the symbol, there was no 'death' concern on Al/Liza. The previous time Lust killed someone with an armor, the death was obvious. The fakeout death with Barry's body was better: a) better written, scene-wise. b) nonfodder, 'satisfying' death with someone who deserved to kill him c) closed out the Barry-Barry relationship continually developed since last episode. That it was a better written death is a fact, not my opinion. It's a literary fact. I can go on about this later. On Hohenheim: It's hard to do two cliffhangers, then just address one, all without losing focus. After showing Ed with Hohenheim, then what? Cut to Barry's body, go over episode 19, then just casually pick up that plotline, all the while, some people would be distracted by the Ed scene? They could have had a self-contained episode, but the problem with self-contained episodes is that they are self-contained. Those episodes you mentioned all have stuff we could dwell upon. What about this episode? What reasons could there be to stop the plot from moving? Did any important protagonists die/is there significant character development coming/is there some foreshadowing? And lastly, there was hardly an episode that was singular in tone, I think. |
fisher_88Aug 10, 2009 1:19 PM
| I think the whole set up with Barry saying something to the effect of "I've wanted to cut you up most of all," to lust, and subsequently getting cut down by her is much more ironic than his second death where he was stuttering and totally helpless. He would have gone out protecting Al and Hawkeye while also chasing his ideals; instead he's destroyed by his rotting body that was "dead" a few minutes ago. I agree it would have been weird to place it in 18, but honestly, that episode was already piecey and had no focus so it wouldn't have mattered much. As for this episode, there was a lot of movement regarding Al's revelation of his own body, Mustang finding out about homunculi, Jean maybe being dead, Barry dying, and having Riza's breakdown that it would have been totally fine to leave the episode on the note with Al and Winry, which I thought was a perfect end. For whatever reason, you seem to like episodes ending with some type of wow factor. I like a bit of denoument unless the cliffhanger is tied in with the rest of the episode, so it's just aesthetic differences. |
| cant wait til next ep....i was just re-reading the manga and mei doesnt join scar til after the next episode in the manga....so thats one more thing they changed |
| OMG LUST FINALLY DIEEE! but i would like to see the fat one die first gosh (he's so digusting ><) soo, this is how to kill a homunculus :O haha, edward only appears for few minutes ^^' yeahh hohenheim apearrsss! next episode would be niceee. i hope havoc is ok! >< |
| Al's Defense Mode AWESOME Mustang's flame his stomach and draw a transmutation circle on his hand in blood OH YEAH LOL at the armor breaking part |
 True or False Anime + Manga = Chuck Norris / Chuck Norris |
noteDhero said: I think the whole set up with Barry saying something to the effect of "I've wanted to cut you up most of all," to lust, and subsequently getting cut down by her is much more ironic than his second death where he was stuttering and totally helpless. Who DID Barry want to cut up most of all? Who DID 'cut' him up? What ARE his ideals? Yup. Hey, I hated Barry's death as it was epically pathetic, but to be killed by anyone else, would have wasted all that dialogue he's had since last episode, his determination in entering the lab, his disappointment in finding his body. He would have had a hero's death that no one cared about (bec. it would take away from the Al's own heroism). Instead, he had an interesting, pathetic and ironic death that befits him. On this episode: None of the things you mentioned deserved dwelling, because it was all contained within that scene, they can think about the consequences later in flashbacks. None of the people you mentioned are thinking about the things you mentioned. If you accept that that scene has ended, there was no reason not to change scenes. Ending with Al would be fine, but it'd give the impression that the episode was about him. By the way, there is nothing dramatic about the cliffhanger - he met his father, so what? |
robbydesu said: Taihaku said: Omg, you have such a selfish friend. What right does he/she have to determine whether or not you can read the manga, don't listen to him/her >=(!! Read the manga if you want to!! I support this!! My friend is holding me back from reading the manga because he likes being the one who knows what's going to happen for once but after that episode....I don't think I can hold off much longer. Well......this is to get me back for me watching Code Geass R2 subs while he waited for the english dub. |
| ahh wow this episode was great! I really like this version of FMA, I guess its because it feels like it sticks to the point of the show without tons of added extras(even though I never read the manga..) Mustang was AWESOME!! and dare I say a little sexy at the end.. :) He burnt Lust up! I actually felt a sense of relief from her at the end. Al was awesome! I'm an Al fan anywhoo hehe ohhh and I felt kinda bad for Barry to end like that, this ep brought some tiny tears The preview for 20 looks interesting, he finally appears! |
- Noblesse Oblige -  And I'm saying a prayer for  the desperate heart's tonight |
fisher88 said: Who DID Barry want to cut up most of all? Who DID 'cut' him up? What ARE his ideals? Yup. Hey, I hated Barry's death as it was epically pathetic, but to be killed by anyone else, would have wasted all that dialogue he's had since last episode, his determination in entering the lab, his disappointment in finding his body. He would have had a hero's death that no one cared about (bec. it would take away from the Al's own heroism). Instead, he had an interesting, pathetic and ironic death that befits him. On this episode: None of the things you mentioned deserved dwelling, because it was all contained within that scene, they can think about the consequences later in flashbacks. None of the people you mentioned are thinking about the things you mentioned. If you accept that that scene has ended, there was no reason not to change scenes. Ending with Al would be fine, but it'd give the impression that the episode was about him. By the way, there is nothing dramatic about the cliffhanger - he met his father, so what? That's all well and good, but like I said, it's spoiled by the fact that he presumably died in a more entertaining and final fashion minutes earlier. Had the death been the same without making us feel like both characters had died earlier in the episode, the effect would be markedly different, and I wouldn't have had a problem. The way they did it here rendered one of them unnecessary, and I feel like it was the latter death. It doesn't really have anything to do with dwelling on something. We had those scenes and that's it. The end. There was no reason to change the whole tone and look of the episode by going to Ed just so he could run into Hohenheim. Again, it was unnecessary. The episode was partly about him and his body as much as it was about Barry and his body, Lust and her body, and Mustang and Riza. But they chose to cap it off with him and Winry in a conclusive manner, so that's why I say end it there. Come on, it's the 19th episode and we see Ed and Al's absent father (who looks just like the Homunculi's Father) whom he hates show up randomly for the first time in Resembool. It's a cliffhanger, and cliffhangers, by definition are meant to be dramatic. |
| I think it's sooo much better than the last season. They finally have something cool going on now =D |
| As an episode, this was well-made with a LOT of stuff put in. However they still did cut out a few great moments, like Ling cutting Gluttony in 2(that's the first time he shows his skills dammit) and the Ran-fan vs Envy fight which was more comic than awesome imo but it showed that they can sense homunculi EDIT: oh btw, Lust is more badass than Mustang in this episode <3 |
SaptaAug 10, 2009 3:00 PM
noteDhero said: .That's all well and good, but like I said, it's spoiled by the fact that he presumably died in a more entertaining and final fashion minutes earlier And where was the first fakeout - Lust didn't cut up the symbol, there was no 'death' concern on Al/Liza. The previous time Lust killed someone with an armor, the death was obvious. You were just spoiled by your assumption that Barry died that time (there were no signs that he died). Instead, you should have assumed he would survive, and be suprised when his body killed him instead. noteDhero said: There was no reason to change the whole tone and look of the episode by going to Ed just so he could run into Hohenheim. Again, it was unnecessary. Moving the plot along - that is my bias for this series. I don't care that Hohenhiem appeared, it could have been another scene - not using that 30 seconds is wasteful. There was no need for a conclusion, because the episode didn't contain a 'thesis', it was just a fight - it contained a lot of different threads, but nothing overarching. If there was a conclusion, you have to have something that ties things together, like the Fuhrer watching. |
| I am astonished by the quality of this episode. The whole art, animation with the fighting. Mustang I thought for a minute was beat by lust, but then he shows up and was uber awsome with his fire alchemy, I loved that part it was brilliant. The cliffhanger at the end was just the way to finish the episode, I want more!!!! Hoffenheim!! |
| Awwwww Hohenheim! Love that guy. Can't wait to see him in next ep ^^ Poor Riza. She really had a breakdown. Thank God Roy was alright. He's so cool~ |
| One word "SUGOI!" |
| Finally an episode of FMA: Brotherhood that I can say I really loved :) |
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fisher_88 said: You were just spoiled by your assumption that Barry died that time (there were no signs that he died). Instead, you should have assumed he would survive, and be suprised when his body killed him instead. Fair, but that's just not the way it went. Moving the plot along - that is my bias for this series. I don't care that Hohenhiem appeared, it could have been another scene - not using that 30 seconds is wasteful. There was no need for a conclusion, because the episode didn't contain a 'thesis', it was just a fight - it contained a lot of different threads, but nothing overarching. If there was a conclusion, you have to have something that ties things together, like the Fuhrer watching. Well then perhaps another scene, more related to what happened in the episode. But as I said before, this series just doesn't know what denoument is. That's the way I feel about shows structurally, there has to be a proper rise and fall. FMA:B does good rise and climax, but they don't know how to come off it and transition into something else. That's where pace complaints and rushing comes into play. If viewers don't feel like enough time was spent to breathe from one scene to the next, it just gets suffocating. |
| Holy crap, wow! I'm stunned speechless right now. |
| awesome ep looks like lust dead but i wanna see envy die no lie but i loved every minute next week epic^^ 5/5 |
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noteDhero said: That's the way I feel about shows structurally, there has to be a proper rise and fall. FMA:B does good rise and climax, but they don't know how to come off it and transition into something else. That's where pace complaints and rushing comes into play. If viewers don't feel like enough time was spent to breathe from one scene to the next, it just gets suffocating. Having a proper structure each episode would be good if FMA was character-driven or episodic in nature. The transition from this episode can come later as the series makes use of it - note how Al's seeing the truth still has consequences now. Forcing series to have a nice structures is a waste and often cheap (note what I said about Al - any ending scene would make it seem that the episode was about that scene, when it was about many things). As for pacing concerns, I usually ignore them because they aren't usually related to the pace of the story within each scene. And the only people who can complain about the general pace are those who already know how the whole plot works out i.e. manga readers. That's because they know how things will work out and can thus appreciate how the length/arrangement of the scenes affect the story. |
| Well, that was awsome and a half, truly epic... However, I find the Ran Fan neglect disturbing, she being one of my fav characters and all, and this is becoming a trend. Then again, there was way too much stuff to fit in one episode, and though I would want them to chill out a bit with the pace, it would have been awkward to stretch it out over 2 episodes. Next week the drama continues ! - Shijeer |
| And that's another thing that amazes me about the show. It's not really about the characters at all. I personally don't respond well to stories like that, because I often feel like the characters are unimportant puppets to be pulled along by the plot, but I will say that in the last 10 or so episodes, I haven't really felt that way. I'm fine with still seeing the consequences of actions from previous episodes. Thats what I expect from well done serializations. I'm just saying that even in serials, there should be some kind of structure to hang everything on, otherwise we're left feeling like everything shown is just out of necessity and not because of anything thematically or emotionally. And I don't think it's forcing to do something so ingrained in a storytelling medium. Pacing affects how much and how quickly the viewer gets engaged in the story. So of course I also disagree that only those versed in the outcome can talk about pacing since I think that pacing should be looked at from two levels: Overall and as an episode. They both affect each other, but they aren't necessarily the same in nature. |
| MUSTANG V. LUST ANIMATED = FUCKING EPIC! God that was a great episode, again like others have said, some minor "side fights" cut but it has no effect on how epic this episode turned out! |
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nRxUs said: Im pretty sure, that happens on a future episode. Not on this one. It happens after Ed returns to them, i[m pretty sure. No. Thats In this episode they cut out: |
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| I'm without words as to HOW AWESOME this episode was. <3333 Roy was totally epic in the entire episode! I'd wish they'd slow down the pace a bit,I thought the series would go a slower pace after Hughes death. Guess I was wrong XD; Also a bit meh about Ling and Ranfan not showing up as much as we wished. Riza Hawkeye was also totally exceptional these two past episodes. <333333333 *thumbs up* |
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| FIREWORKS. This was the best episode so far. I'm sad that Barry died though, he was amazing this season. |
| if we die we'll meet again in valhalla... |
| And now you non-manga readers see why Mustang is my favorite character in the series by a good margin. :) Bleeding and left for dead, he cuts an alchemy circle into his hand and uses the flint from the lighter to create a flame to burn the wound closed. Which is about 10,000 CCs of GAR manliness right there. Then he's able to kill Lust by blowing her up repeatedly with his flame alchemy. That, my friends, is a true man's man. |
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| I really wished people would view this anime on it's own merit instead of always comparing it to the manga or the first series. It's really annoying and kinda asinine in a discussion about an anime episode in the series entitles Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood. In any case, since I have neither seen FMA1 or read the manga, I'm gonna say a whole hell of a lot happened this episode. Roy and co. learning about homunculi, Havoc dead, Lust dead, Barry dead, and dad at the end. Really fast pace but I was on the edge of my seat and loved it. Things I pulled from this episode: Mustang is badass and can take out homunculi given they are immobilized enough to not escape the fire; all it takes is one smudge to kill Barry, and Al for that matter; and Ed got the short end of the stick on the gene for height. What I pulled from this forum: I could give a rat's @ss what the differences are in manga and in the anime and people are f*cktards for not using spoiler tags and being whiney b!tches about differences. Seriously, enjoy, or hate, this anime for what it is on it it's own feet. |
| master piece |
| <img src="http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss317/VampiressMIharu/userbar_01_hq_.jpg" border="0" /> im a philippino painter |
| I JIZZED IN MY PANTS. Fucking awesome. All my favorite moments. And let me tell you, I am not a Roy girl, but when he's standing there, shirt open, fresh burns all over his side, transmutation circle cut into his hand, burning the FUCK out of Lust, he is sexy as fuck. Damn. And Havoc. ;__; And Riza! <3 And Al! So good. And then Hoho-papa at the end. <3 Raitora said: Been waiting for AGES for them to animate this, and it did not disappoint. It was so good I forgot about the stuff with Ling and Ran Fan. :< I forgot about it too... orz |
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| ROY MUSTANG IS FREAKIN AWESOME!!!!!!! |
| I agree, Mustang was such a BAMF!!! I hope every fight from now on is so intense. |
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