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Debate: "Fanservice: bad for a...
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Debate: "Fanservice: bad for anime in the west?"

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Apr 1, 2015 7:45 PM
#51
MorteTorment
Offline
May 2013
518
Syndiciate said:
TheGadaffiDuck said:


wowza finally someone took this debate seriously, rather than jumping to conclusions thinking im some sort of booby hater! I was once part of the MLP/Brony fanbase a while back, and despite the hundreds of thousands of dollars raised for charity at conventions and livestreams, and the incredible wealth of media created in a short amount of time because.... i dunno.... they were inspired as artists because of the creativity of the show, the mainstream media and news outlets jumped to conclusions and believed that one person's perversion of the innocent kid's cartoon represented the entire fandom as a collective, instantly ruining our reputation we worked so hard to build up. I've only been in the anime fandom for a year now, and noticing much of the same. I know that there are people that do pull their puds to lolicon (which is a damn side better than to actual children), but that doesn't mean you or i do it....

P.S. Of course the west is no better when it comes to tits and ass in their television shows. I now actually wonder if Japan thinks that way of us?!??


The anime Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt was the Japanese attempt to appeal to Western audience and was done in a western animation style. They apparently think we all giggle at dick jokes.


*is still busting up laughing over all of this*

So need to watch the series sometime...in small servings. This seems more like they're making fun of how the media sees anime.
Don't listen to people when they tell you that the anime that you want to see doesn't exist, and to quit asking, and quit searching. I found my dream anime, and yours could be out there too. Speaking of which, watch Record Of Grancrest War, you're missing out.

I thrive on fantasy anime, and anime with all adult casts!
Apr 1, 2015 8:09 PM
#52
DateYutaka
Offline
Mar 2011
25074
censorship and bad tv deals hurt anime in the west anime that is suposeto be prime time being show late at night on a stalaite channel ofr exmaple

its not content that hurts it
"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine"

When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun
Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one
For the Union makes us strong
Apr 1, 2015 8:14 PM
#53
DateYutaka
Offline
Mar 2011
25074
Zalis said:
TheGadaffiDuck said:
On occasion, anime includes gratuitous fan service involving clearly underage girls, and when the critics latch onto this stuff, they can add an accusation of pedophilia. This leads to a very bad image for the fan base.
Of course, it's not anime's fault that the ignorant masses don't even know what pedophilia is. "Oh, you like that big-breasted, wide-hipped anime schoolgirl in a short skirt? She's 17? GTFO Pedo!!!!1!"


its also what the legal age of consent laws are in Japan in most prefcture 16 is legal ie why we dont have as many statutory rape cases in Japan in the us diffent sates have diffring lawas but over since you guys look at hollywood cailfoina were i belive the lega ag in 21 then you see why
"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine"

When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun
Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one
For the Union makes us strong
Apr 1, 2015 10:01 PM
#54
removed-user
Offline
Jul 2018
561867
Syndiciate said:
TheGadaffiDuck said:


wowza finally someone took this debate seriously, rather than jumping to conclusions thinking im some sort of booby hater! I was once part of the MLP/Brony fanbase a while back, and despite the hundreds of thousands of dollars raised for charity at conventions and livestreams, and the incredible wealth of media created in a short amount of time because.... i dunno.... they were inspired as artists because of the creativity of the show, the mainstream media and news outlets jumped to conclusions and believed that one person's perversion of the innocent kid's cartoon represented the entire fandom as a collective, instantly ruining our reputation we worked so hard to build up. I've only been in the anime fandom for a year now, and noticing much of the same. I know that there are people that do pull their puds to lolicon (which is a damn side better than to actual children), but that doesn't mean you or i do it....

P.S. Of course the west is no better when it comes to tits and ass in their television shows. I now actually wonder if Japan thinks that way of us?!??


The anime Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt was the Japanese attempt to appeal to Western audience and was done in a western animation style. They apparently think we all giggle at dick jokes.


That'z generally how the average fat American is.....

Also, you had me at "Saving Private Ryan With Sperm"
Apr 1, 2015 10:23 PM
#55
MorteTorment
Offline
May 2013
518
MorteTorment said:
TheGadaffiDuck said:


wowza finally someone took this debate seriously, rather than jumping to conclusions thinking im some sort of booby hater! I was once part of the MLP/Brony fanbase a while back, and despite the hundreds of thousands of dollars raised for charity at conventions and livestreams, and the incredible wealth of media created in a short amount of time because.... i dunno.... they were inspired as artists because of the creativity of the show, the mainstream media and news outlets jumped to conclusions and believed that one person's perversion of the innocent kid's cartoon represented the entire fandom as a collective, instantly ruining our reputation we worked so hard to build up. I've only been in the anime fandom for a year now, and noticing much of the same. I know that there are people that do pull their puds to lolicon (which is a damn side better than to actual children), but that doesn't mean you or i do it....

P.S. Of course the west is no better when it comes to tits and ass in their television shows. I now actually wonder if Japan thinks that way of us?!??


Please, allow me to be someone else that will take this seriously.

I understand your outrage, and the desire to have your favorite medium taken seriously. I felt that way about video games for years, but the reality is that there's always going to be shows that the media will use to prove that anime is disturbing. The media hasn't even acknowledged that any type of cartoon can actually be taken seriously, and that they're not all aimed at kids. Personally, I think that a better alternative is to just interact with a lot of people, and show them that you're not some creep by being yourself.

Anyways, my thoughts on fanservice can be summed up like this.

If the show is lazy and relies entirely on fanservice to get you to watch it, then it's pathetic.

But if a show has more than enough to stand on its own, usually likable characters, and exciting combat(which coincidentally is why I watch what I watch.) then I think it just makes a good anime even better.

However, I do wish I could see more of "We built up our relationship, and realize that we're both in love each other, let's fade to black ala Sword Art Online." and less "Pervert! Bad Touch!"

Also, enough of these fucking virgins!

We also could do more with Maria the Virgin Witch, which totally give the middle finger to the basement dwellers who want to possess anime characters.


None of this was worth replying to? I was speaking from the heart.
Don't listen to people when they tell you that the anime that you want to see doesn't exist, and to quit asking, and quit searching. I found my dream anime, and yours could be out there too. Speaking of which, watch Record Of Grancrest War, you're missing out.

I thrive on fantasy anime, and anime with all adult casts!
Apr 1, 2015 10:51 PM
#56
TaichiYamato

Offline
May 2013
258
No. Needs more fanservice.
More male fanservice, that is.

Also the one with the Ramiel avatar is full of win.
Brave Heart~

Dislikes politics.
Apr 2, 2015 9:56 PM
#57
sarroush

Offline
Dec 2008
7278
[b]Thread cleaned[b]

Apr 2, 2015 10:39 PM
#58
SolitaryYates

Offline
Jan 2008
558
I find fanservice so grating if I'm watching an anime that centres around urgency and people's lives being at risk. For example, the anime set itself up nicely with a good premise, interesting characters and motives.

Eventually, the main character walks through the door. He went through a lot of shit, through strife and even lost his loved one as she sacrificed herself. "Senpai, you must meet with the God. You must ask him why our world is in decline".

Behind that door is the origin of God. A lot went through his mind. He lost his family. His loved one. All of his friends died as they all fought to survive in a desolate Earth, dying in decay.

Then as you open the door...

A young girl that has no place in the plot premise, wearing scantly-clothed dress, probably as a brand insert, and asking the main character who LOST HIS LOVED ONES "Hey, are you a virgin? If you want, I can let you touch my... Haha, you think I would let you do that, you baka hentai".

And you throw up your arm and close your media player in rage.

That's how I fucking felt when I watched Brynhildr in the Darkness.

The fucking biggest piece of shit anime I have ever seen in 2014.
Apr 3, 2015 12:49 AM
#59
Reckard
Offline
Apr 2015
1
Not only the West, it hurts Japan. Fanservice shows are made for otaku niche audiences and are just off putting to everyone else, leading the industry into it's current decline. It needs more shows like Psycho Pass, Zankyou no Terror, ect instead of Gurren Boobs and K-On ripoff #49601.

By the way, the anime industry actually cares a lot about the West. The Japanese government has given the industry money to make it's exports appeal more western countries. That's exactly why we have Space Dandy, made for the West and debuted first in the West.
Apr 3, 2015 1:06 AM
#60
Aria-da-Capo

Offline
Jul 2014
2800
retrogamer32x said:
Reckard said:
That's exactly why we have Space Dandy, made for the West and debuted first in the West.

I'd also mention this new, blue jacket Lupin series which is premiering in Europe first. I know Lupin III isn't the marquee franchise it once was, but that is still a big deal.

Specifically, Lupin is premiering in Italy. I guess that's because, here, it's still one of the most famous anime. I was surprised by the relatively low members count on MAL.

Anyway, I guess one of the most obvious west-pandering show was Hokuto no Ken.
Apr 3, 2015 2:20 AM
#61
MorteTorment
Offline
May 2013
518
Aria-da-Capo said:
retrogamer32x said:

I'd also mention this new, blue jacket Lupin series which is premiering in Europe first. I know Lupin III isn't the marquee franchise it once was, but that is still a big deal.

Specifically, Lupin is premiering in Italy. I guess that's because, here, it's still one of the most famous anime. I was surprised by the relatively low members count on MAL.

Anyway, I guess one of the most obvious west-pandering show was Hokuto no Ken.


Low members count for what exactly? How many have Favorited it?
Don't listen to people when they tell you that the anime that you want to see doesn't exist, and to quit asking, and quit searching. I found my dream anime, and yours could be out there too. Speaking of which, watch Record Of Grancrest War, you're missing out.

I thrive on fantasy anime, and anime with all adult casts!
Apr 3, 2015 2:24 AM
#62
Wolfsbane

Offline
Jul 2013
3302
Reckard said:
Not only the West, it hurts Japan. Fanservice shows are made for otaku niche audiences and are just off putting to everyone else, leading the industry into it's current decline. It needs more shows like Psycho Pass, Zankyou no Terror, ect instead of Gurren Boobs and K-On ripoff #49601.

By the way, the anime industry actually cares a lot about the West. The Japanese government has given the industry money to make it's exports appeal more western countries. That's exactly why we have Space Dandy, made for the West and debuted first in the West.


A single show (Space Dandy) that panders to western audiences among hundreds of anime released. Dont see how that proves they care for west. And Space Dandy is one of the most heavy fan-service shows I have seen.
And lol, otaku audiences are most certainly NOT a niche audience.
Apr 3, 2015 2:33 AM
#63
absolutelynone
Offline
Sep 2013
280
Bad? Of course not, that is, from market perspective.
Anime primary target audience is teenagers, teenage boys to be precisely, like it or not that's the truth.

That being said, heavy fan service found in most of the anime doesn't help the image of this medium in the west.
Apr 3, 2015 2:44 AM
#64
Joms

Offline
Feb 2015
2796
Before said:
Where's the west


When you look at the east, you see west as south.

Apr 3, 2015 2:46 AM
#65
Aria-da-Capo

Offline
Jul 2014
2800
MorteTorment said:
Low members count for what exactly? How many have Favorited it?

Not sure if serious. You can see those statistics on his anime page.
Members count = The number of people who have it on their list. Slightly over 7k for the Red Jacket series, for example. Only 75 favorites.
Apr 3, 2015 3:22 AM
#66
Agafin

Offline
Jun 2014
3667
Soul-Master said:
Reckard said:
Not only the West, it hurts Japan. Fanservice shows are made for otaku niche audiences and are just off putting to everyone else, leading the industry into it's current decline. It needs more shows like Psycho Pass, Zankyou no Terror, ect instead of Gurren Boobs and K-On ripoff #49601.

By the way, the anime industry actually cares a lot about the West. The Japanese government has given the industry money to make it's exports appeal more western countries. That's exactly why we have Space Dandy, made for the West and debuted first in the West.


A single show (Space Dandy) that panders to western audiences among hundreds of anime released. Dont see how that proves they care for west. And Space Dandy is one of the most heavy fan-service shows I have seen.
And lol, otaku audiences are most certainly NOT a niche audience.


You are wrong, there are several anime made for the west and otaku is a niche audience.
Apr 3, 2015 3:42 AM
#67
tsudecimo

Offline
Dec 2012
24355
Reckard said:
Not only the West, it hurts Japan. Fanservice shows are made for otaku niche audiences and are just off putting to everyone else, leading the industry into it's current decline. It needs more shows like Psycho Pass, Zankyou no Terror, ect instead of Gurren Boobs and K-On ripoff #49601.

By the way, the anime industry actually cares a lot about the West. The Japanese government has given the industry money to make it's exports appeal more western countries. That's exactly why we have Space Dandy, made for the West and debuted first in the West.

Wrong. 2013 was the highest grossing year for anime, last highest year, was like a decade before it.

Lmao. The west is extremely insignificant to the anime industry, it's a Japanese product made for Japanese consumers. Selling licences for dubs, is a small bonus. One example, doesn't mean shit, especially when it wasn't successful both in Japan and US.

The international market for Manga is more prevalent but it still doesn't matter that much, let alone the anime industry, which is more niche.
Apr 3, 2015 3:52 AM
#68
AnnaSartin

Offline
Dec 2014
1375
I think fanservice is becoming a problem outside of Japan, because it decreases a show's market appeal. Fanservice-y shows are less likely to be shown on TV, and if they are shown it will be on a late night time slot when very few people are awake to check it out.
Apr 3, 2015 6:08 AM
#69
Wolfsbane

Offline
Jul 2013
3302
Agafin said:
Soul-Master said:


A single show (Space Dandy) that panders to western audiences among hundreds of anime released. Dont see how that proves they care for west. And Space Dandy is one of the most heavy fan-service shows I have seen.
And lol, otaku audiences are most certainly NOT a niche audience.


You are wrong, there are several anime made for the west and otaku is a niche audience.


I bet there are shows that try to have some sort of western appeal, but never sacrificing their main target in Japan. But only providing one example (Space Dandy) hints at the opposite.
For a niche audience, it sure is weird to see shows that appeal to otaku. Being a niche audience, you would expect it not to sell much.
Apr 3, 2015 7:59 AM
#70
New_-

Offline
Oct 2014
783
Damn, I want to contribute, but I'm not from the West :/
HOW TO SAVE ANIME IN THREE SIMPLE STEPS

  1. To have Mars of Destruction, Skelter Heaven, and Pupa properly adapted in TV series form by Madhouse
  2. To have Inferno Cop properly adapted in TV series form by Bones, director: Urobuchi Gen
  3. An anime crossover of Mushishi x ARIA x Haibane Renmei.


Should even one of the above conditions cannot be done, anime is still at risk.
Apr 3, 2015 10:20 AM
#71
FullmetalRaikou

Offline
Sep 2011
3234
Lancehot said:

The West is the breast.


Agreed.

I really don't see what is wrong with something like this:



or this:



when a lot of the West is into stuff like this:

Apr 3, 2015 5:57 PM
#72
Aqutan
Offline
Feb 2014
17731
Reckard said:
Not only the West, it hurts Japan. Fanservice shows are made for otaku niche audiences and are just off putting to everyone else, leading the industry into it's current decline. It needs more shows like Psycho Pass, Zankyou no Terror, ect instead of Gurren Boobs and K-On ripoff #49601.

By the way, the anime industry actually cares a lot about the West. The Japanese government has given the industry money to make it's exports appeal more western countries. That's exactly why we have Space Dandy, made for the West and debuted first in the West.


Oh look another ANN exile, gr8 first b8 m8

>more shows like Zankyou no Terror

ow that edge hurts man
Apr 3, 2015 6:05 PM
#73
Yksiloituminen

Offline
Feb 2014
216
I don't see anyhing bad in fanservice. I haven't watched much shounen series so I don't know how fanservice is shown in mainstream anime, but usually I don't find it unpleasant.
Apr 3, 2015 6:20 PM
#74
Khaosman-OSA

Offline
Oct 2014
2033
Fullmetal89 said:

when a lot of the West is into stuff like this:



Hey hey hey. This is kinda fun actually.

Apr 3, 2015 6:21 PM
#75
Wolfsbane

Offline
Jul 2013
3302
Shitposta said:
Reckard said:
Not only the West, it hurts Japan. Fanservice shows are made for otaku niche audiences and are just off putting to everyone else, leading the industry into it's current decline. It needs more shows like Psycho Pass, Zankyou no Terror, ect instead of Gurren Boobs and K-On ripoff #49601.

By the way, the anime industry actually cares a lot about the West. The Japanese government has given the industry money to make it's exports appeal more western countries. That's exactly why we have Space Dandy, made for the West and debuted first in the West.


Oh look another ANN exile, gr8 first b8 m8

>more shows like Zankyou no Terror

ow that edge hurts man


Dont answer him. I did the same and I regrett it. We only give him pretext to keep saying stupid things.
Apr 3, 2015 6:24 PM
#76
Aqutan
Offline
Feb 2014
17731
Soul-Master said:
Shitposta said:


Oh look another ANN exile, gr8 first b8 m8

>more shows like Zankyou no Terror

ow that edge hurts man


Dont answer him. I did the same and I regrett it. We only give him pretext to keep saying stupid things.


But I like being called silly names like "Weeaboo" and "Blatant Pedophile" by the neckbeard species.
Apr 3, 2015 6:30 PM
#77
SuperRed

Offline
Nov 2012
9736
Reckard said:
Not only the West, it hurts Japan. Fanservice shows are made for otaku niche audiences and are just off putting to everyone else, leading the industry into it's current decline. It needs more shows like Psycho Pass, Zankyou no Terror, ect instead of Gurren Boobs and K-On ripoff #49601.

By the way, the anime industry actually cares a lot about the West. The Japanese government has given the industry money to make it's exports appeal more western countries. That's exactly why we have Space Dandy, made for the West and debuted first in the West.


No
Apr 3, 2015 7:41 PM
#78
SolitaryYates

Offline
Jan 2008
558
Fullmetal89 said:
Lancehot said:

The West is the breast.


Agreed.

I really don't see what is wrong with something like this:



or this:



when a lot of the West is into stuff like this:



Actually, the west seems to be more into this:



And to be honest, Gravity Falls is a lot better than majority of the anime that has been coming out recently.
Apr 4, 2015 2:45 AM
#79
RaKana

Offline
Oct 2014
316
I really don't think fanservice is bad, but these japanese guys just add too much and destroys a very good show with it.
Apr 4, 2015 10:23 AM
#80
masumi_amari

Offline
Nov 2014
35
The whole reason that anime creators are putting more fanservice is so that they could get a larger demographic in the west. I personally don't care for fanservice but it's clearly working since many more people are watching anime compared to the past(I'm assuming).
Apr 5, 2015 10:02 PM
#81
removed-user
Offline
Jul 2018
561867
MorteTorment said:
MorteTorment said:


Please, allow me to be someone else that will take this seriously.

I understand your outrage, and the desire to have your favorite medium taken seriously. I felt that way about video games for years, but the reality is that there's always going to be shows that the media will use to prove that anime is disturbing. The media hasn't even acknowledged that any type of cartoon can actually be taken seriously, and that they're not all aimed at kids. Personally, I think that a better alternative is to just interact with a lot of people, and show them that you're not some creep by being yourself.

Anyways, my thoughts on fanservice can be summed up like this.

If the show is lazy and relies entirely on fanservice to get you to watch it, then it's pathetic.

But if a show has more than enough to stand on its own, usually likable characters, and exciting combat(which coincidentally is why I watch what I watch.) then I think it just makes a good anime even better.

However, I do wish I could see more of "We built up our relationship, and realize that we're both in love each other, let's fade to black ala Sword Art Online." and less "Pervert! Bad Touch!"

Also, enough of these fucking virgins!

We also could do more with Maria the Virgin Witch, which totally give the middle finger to the basement dwellers who want to possess anime characters.


None of this was worth replying to? I was speaking from the heart.


I feel the same way about this entire fucking thread, when everyone is shaming me and jumping to the concludsion that im afraid of panties......
Apr 5, 2015 10:04 PM
#82
removed-user
Offline
Jul 2018
561867
TheBritishBear said:
Fullmetal89 said:


Agreed.

I really don't see what is wrong with something like this:



or this:



when a lot of the West is into stuff like this:



Actually, the west seems to be more into this:



And to be honest, Gravity Falls is a lot better than majority of the anime that has been coming out recently.


My Little Pony used to be good. I started sucking as soon as i got in the show...... I have't seen Gravity Falls, but that shit looks pretty deep!
Apr 5, 2015 10:14 PM
#83
joephillingham

Offline
Feb 2015
188
Depends, i presume everyone remembers the events of sao episode 21. Aka the tentacle episode. Thats bad.

Then theres fan service such as brief glimpses in romances, this is GOOD, tsundere animes come to mind ESPECIALLY

There is thsn GREAT fan service http://wallpoper.com/images/00/33/15/05/code-geass_00331505.jpg
Oh sweet god do I love code geass.

Basically, heres where I draw the line

Tease
Slip
Clothes rip
Half disclosure ( Underwear sections covered)
Sex, censored by angles of the artist "camera angles"
Hentai as long as its just hentai
Cosplay

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- THE LINE

Full disclosure
Tentacles
Rape
High school DxD
when it intervenes with the plot
Apr 5, 2015 10:43 PM
#84
MorteTorment
Offline
May 2013
518
joephillingham said:


Full disclosure
Tentacles
Rape
High school DxD
when it intervenes with the plot


First of all, what would Full Disclosure be?

Second of all, I hate tentacles more than just about anything in anime, but at the same time, I don't like censorship, and if the creators really want it in, I say to let them do it, I'll just skip ahead 2 minutes, and if it's something that happens consistantly, I'll stop watching. I also didn't enjoy the first season of High School DxD either, so I did something crazy. I stopped watching it, just like I do with anything that I don't like. I'm gonna give the new season a chance, and if it's still just as bad with the first episode, I'll drop it again, No one is literally MAKING anyone watch any anime that they don't want to, and I think that this is the lesson that really needs to be taught.

And as for rape, yeah, in most cases it's horrible, but you can use it effectively. For example, there's my favorite show of the last Season and one of my favorite anime titles of all time, Cross Ange.

Finally, can you give some examples of it intervening with the plot?
Don't listen to people when they tell you that the anime that you want to see doesn't exist, and to quit asking, and quit searching. I found my dream anime, and yours could be out there too. Speaking of which, watch Record Of Grancrest War, you're missing out.

I thrive on fantasy anime, and anime with all adult casts!
Apr 5, 2015 10:48 PM
#85
Space-Wizard

Offline
Jul 2012
1159
Fan service is definitely something that I notice as influencing how popular a series is in the west. As in, if there's more of it, the series is likely to not be as popular.

Many people who are NGE fans cite their least favorite part of the series as being the prevalence of fan service. Fan service in the west is seen as generally distracting from the plot, and taking up precious time that could be used advancing the plots or developing the characters.
xEmptiness said:
"if we follow what SW is suggesting, nihilism is the conclusion"
Apr 6, 2015 12:34 AM
#86
Aqutan
Offline
Feb 2014
17731
joephillingham said:
Depends, i presume everyone remembers the events of sao episode 21. Aka the tentacle episode. Thats bad.

Then theres fan service such as brief glimpses in romances, this is GOOD, tsundere animes come to mind ESPECIALLY

There is thsn GREAT fan service http://wallpoper.com/images/00/33/15/05/code-geass_00331505.jpg
Oh sweet god do I love code geass.

Basically, heres where I draw the line

Tease
Slip
Clothes rip
Half disclosure ( Underwear sections covered)
Sex, censored by angles of the artist "camera angles"
Hentai as long as its just hentai
Cosplay

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- THE LINE

Full disclosure
Tentacles
Rape
High school DxD
when it intervenes with the plot


About where I stand as well.
Apr 6, 2015 1:18 AM
#87
LilGreasyKid

Offline
Dec 2013
1983
Fanservice itself isn't a bad thing. I just feel like shows nowadays use it as a cop-out for original ideas. I mean, why create a sci-fi series when a generic harem could sell more? Yoko was one thing, but I'm tired of seeing tons of highschool/battle harems with generic MCs. A dash of originality simply isn't cutting it anymore.
Apr 6, 2015 4:05 PM
#88
FullmetalRaikou

Offline
Sep 2011
3234
TheBritishBear said:



And to be honest, Gravity Falls is a lot better than majority of the anime that has been coming out recently.


Gravity Falls is actually pretty good/funny. It's one of the few things that I watch in terms of western cartoons along with Kora/Avatar. I use to watch Spongebob religiously but they really fucked up with the new seasons. It's not funny anymore.
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  5. 5 Roronoa, Zoro
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