| People are saying that between reincarnation and void, no one choice is obviously better or worse than the other. Then let me posit this thought experiment: Can you watch anime after you are reincarnated? Can you do it while in the void? /QED. The above is not meant to be taken seriously. |
TorribleJan 11, 2015 9:19 PM
| Fascinating. |
 |
| Absolutely loved the ambiguity. I mean despite the void being the "good" path, in our eyes, do we really want to let our soul rest? Would reincarnation be the better option? Live another life and possibly live life better? Reincarnation might be the punishment, but it's more like giving you another chance to right your wrongs. I'm still undecided on the matter, but damn I was not expecting this show to be like this. |
| You know there is another explanation as to the void resurrection vs heaven and hell. One theory proposed in several fictional works is that the afterlife is whatever you believe it is. Ie in a Shinto/Buddhist part of the world like Asia they might have Reincarnation and the Void, and in say the West could be Heaven and Hell. It depends on the individuals. The other possibility is that all four doors or even more exists and they these two just happened to have these two outcomes. Maybe if the game went differently, the doors would be different or had they lived their lives it would have ended differently. To that extent it feels kind of like a trap, I don't think the game itself has an actually bearing on the outcome, the game is more how they will react, maybe getting a last chance at salvation or damnation based on their actions, but I don't think winning or losing the game really has any bearing. |
| Never mind the OVA actually answer the question. Decim says right in the beginning that people generally go to Heaven or Hell, but there a exceptions and in those cases they come the Bar. So yes there are more than 2 or 4 or however many options, and its only people with unique circumstances that come there, not everyone. This makes the first episode in particularly interesting because if the prevailing counter theory that the wife was good and trying to put on a facade for the husband were true she would never even have been there in the first place. So she clearly had some guilt , to what extent we do not know, but she clearly wasn't as loving as the episode made it seem otherwise she wouldn't be there in the first place. |
Makaze_no_Moujuu said: Those who've watched the OVA are already familiar with the heaven or hell path that seems to be one of the cruxes of this show. It seemed simple enough...until it was revealed that the husband would be sent reincarnated, while the wife would be sent to the Void. See, Japan is a Shinto country, with heavy influences from Buddhism as well, and in Buddhism Heaven/Reincarnation, the Void and Hell are all three separate places. So that by itself raises a lot of questions, because there's several interpretations of the Void, let alone all three. Add in the fact that the show just began, and we have no idea of any of the specifics, we have no idea which exact interpretations are influencing the story, or if the meaning of the destinations have been switched up. Also, it's pretty freaking obvious that the wife lied. Just look at Decim's face. He already knows about these people's lives, so he knows she didn't cheat, which is why he was shocked by the actions of the wife. Yes, there's that brief flashback, after she says "Yes, there is someone else I love.", but we don't know when that took place, and she could be talking about a guy from a previous relationship. She gave her husband the out he desperately wanted most likely because she went thru the same torment her husband thinks he's going thru. If she was the evil, selfish b*tch she tried to portray that she was, she would've either 1) had freaked out if she noticed the masks were switched and begged for forgiveness or 2) if she didn't notice the masks, she would've been relieved, thinking that her winning = Heaven, instead of clearly being heartbroken. This anime has such detailed facial, and physical, expressions that if you look at her reactions after she "wins", you know she's being genuine. There is the possibility that she did cheat, but she clearly loved her husband as there was no true malice. Too many people are looking at this anime at face value. Bravo. I think the same, dude. |
 |
Kurokolist said: Actually, are we sure that the guy is not her husband? I mean, the lighting is bad and the angles are poor. You can't clearly see the ring finger and his hair isn't so different that it's unbelievable that it might be Takashi after a wild ride(His hair was flopping all over in the accident for one). If it was him, it's possible that he's searching through her phone after he thinks she's out. Maybe she's aware of the distrust as he goes through the phone. That whole scene could be during the honeymoon and it reeks of bad vibes. She definitely isn't as happy and cozy afterwards as the earlier scene of her and Takashi. Maybe that is what their sex life became, cold and distant. Would explain why it showed up when she said she loved someone else. It's a clear contrast to how they/he used to be. Heh... Hehehe... Machiko: You see... there's someone else I love. (( Her kind husband, as he once was, and as she remembered him which we saw glimpses of just a bit earlier. )) *flashback to her cold and distrusting husband after a wild ride[/b]* Machiko: *distraught laughter* I mean, there'd have to be, right? Who do you think would ever fall in love with you? Like she is almost literally talking to a different person than the one she's most familiar with when saying these things. Because the one in front of her is not the one she actually loves... yet it is at the same time. And if reincarnation means getting another chance, then isn't Takashi the one who does need it in the end? Since he's the one who took a wrong turn with this theory, basically. Well I dunno if that works into it well or not, just a simple thought. Machiko: Of course it was all a lie! I mean, your child?! Yup, I quite like this idea. It works well into what I've been thinking before anyway, so that's just nice to me. |
HarlequinaJan 13, 2015 2:58 PM
| Thank you, you just helped me to clear out some issues I don't know much about the Buddhism so i thought she went to heaven But then i realized the faces on the doors and got confused >_< However i'm pretty excited for this show, I hope it meets my expectation :) |
Harlequina said: Kurokolist said: Actually, are we sure that the guy is not her husband? I mean, the lighting is bad and the angles are poor. You can't clearly see the ring finger and his hair isn't so different that it's unbelievable that it might be Takashi after a wild ride(His hair was flopping all over in the accident for one). If it was him, it's possible that he's searching through her phone after he thinks she's out. Maybe she's aware of the distrust as he goes through the phone. That whole scene could be during the honeymoon and it reeks of bad vibes. She definitely isn't as happy and cozy afterwards as the earlier scene of her and Takashi. Maybe that is what their sex life became, cold and distant. Would explain why it showed up when she said she loved someone else. It's a clear contrast to how they/he used to be. Heh... Hehehe... Machiko: You see... there's someone else I love. (( Her kind husband, as he once was, and as she remembered him which we saw glimpses of just a bit earlier. )) *flashback to her cold and distrusting husband after a wild ride[/b]* Machiko: *distraught laughter* I mean, there'd have to be, right? Who do you think would ever fall in love with you? Like she is almost literally talking to a different person than the one she's most familiar with when saying these things. Because the one in front of her is not the one she actually loves... yet it is at the same time. And if reincarnation means getting another chance, then isn't Takashi the one who does need it in the end? Since he's the one who took a wrong turn with this theory, basically. Well I dunno if that works into it well or not, just a simple thought. Machiko: Of course it was all a lie! I mean, your child?! Yup, I quite like this idea. It works well into what I've been thinking before anyway, so that's just nice to me. This something else I thought to be a possibility, but the lighting is too dark too tell. Probably done on purpose, because that guy looks like he could be Takashi. You already know I think the role reversal is important, and this would only increase it. That memory only helps the character of Machiko, imo. |
| Plot twist: Neither are actually dead. They wake up the next day and get a divorce instead because of this crazy dream. Takashi spends the next 18 years paying child support to his wife while she hooks up with with her female friend Machy. |
^)^ DeathfireD ^)^ Anime Alliance P2P Network *OPEN FOR NEW MEMBERS* |
| I just thought about something, but i dont know if someone else already said it, so bare with me, its to much to read all of it. So, we are thinking about 4 possible outcomes (Heaven, Hell, Reincarnation and Void) to the people sent to that Bar in the Anime (The judgement), which only shows 2 elevators, so this doesnt make sense. I just thought about something, the elevators goes up and down, so those for possible outcomes are possible with only 2 elevators. The good mask being: Heaven as up and Reincarnation as being down. The bad mask being: Hell being down and Void being up. Well, doesnt matter to which ways they go, the point is that it is possible to sent those people to four different places with only two elevators. We just need to pay attention if there is a device that says in which way the elevator is going. Anyways, its good to have a show that make us think hard like this. Im really enjoying it, and i hope it gets better and better, just not repetitive. |
| I hope when they are in the void, they are conscious in a black, featureless area with no one and nothing to interact with for all eternity. |
| Shoot first, think never. |
Makaze_no_Moujuu said: Those who've watched the OVA are already familiar with the heaven or hell path that seems to be one of the cruxes of this show. It seemed simple enough...until it was revealed that the husband would be sent reincarnated, while the wife would be sent to the Void. See, Japan is a Shinto country, with heavy influences from Buddhism as well, and in Buddhism Heaven/Reincarnation, the Void and Hell are all three separate places. So that by itself raises a lot of questions, because there's several interpretations of the Void, let alone all three. Add in the fact that the show just began, and we have no idea of any of the specifics, we have no idea which exact interpretations are influencing the story, or if the meaning of the destinations have been switched up. Also, it's pretty freaking obvious that the wife lied. Just look at Decim's face. He already knows about these people's lives, so he knows she didn't cheat, which is why he was shocked by the actions of the wife. Yes, there's that brief flashback, after she says "Yes, there is someone else I love.", but we don't know when that took place, and she could be talking about a guy from a previous relationship. She gave her husband the out he desperately wanted most likely because she went thru the same torment her husband thinks he's going thru. Words like heaven and hell being used in the show and the idea of someone judging you after you die are Christian ideas first of all. Christianity came to Japan in the 16th century (1500-1600) aka over 400 years ago and it's one of the top religions in japan. There is clear Christian influence in the show, you should mention that. Also you are assuming the cause and that's a fallacy. "Also, it's pretty freaking obvious that the wife lied. Just look at Decim's face." You have no reason to believe that he was surprised for the reason you mentioned, could just as well have been because he was surprised because a girl that plays to win like the wife came out and admitted defeat. "I can't fool him anymore so I'll let him have it". Which is what I believe. She kept clinging to happy memories hoping that her husband would change. In the end she got the fear of not knowing what will become of her which is what she deserves. I don't think she loved her husband. She did cheat on him there is no way you calm down and smile when someone you love hates you like that out of the blue during the day of your honey moon after you find out that you died. She smiles cause she played him and he knew it now. The only thing we know was genuine and loving and caring was the doctor, we hear his thoughts and we know how happy he was. We never once heard what the wife was thinking. I'm assuming the smoker in her flashback is not her husband and my ideas are heavily influenced by that. Idk much about Shinto but from a Buddhist point of view it means getting refused the chance of ever entering Nirvana. And for Christian point of view the void = hell. It wouldn't make sense for her to go to Nirvana in Buddhist point of view since she is still very very much influenced and connected to her life and the pleasures of the real world. |
starmaker032Jan 15, 2015 5:04 PM
starmaker032 said: Words like heaven and hell being used in the show and the idea of someone judging you after you die are Christian ideas first of all. Christianity came to Japan in the 16th century (1500-1600) aka over 400 years ago and it's one of the top religions in japan. There is clear Christian influence in the show, you should mention that. What. One of the top religions in Japan?. Sure, it's only like number 3 maybe after Shinto and Buddhism, and I don't know the statistics now since I'm too lazy to look for it, but I'm sure it's less than 10%, which I honestly don't consider "top" when the numbers for the top two are so much higher. And Christianity coming in around the 1500s is considered very recently in terms of Japan's history when comparing to Buddhism and Shinto. It was also not welcomed and banned by the government, which is why they even have this fumi-e, where Tokugawa had people step on art/tablet with Jesus/other Christian images to check if they were Christian or not. Even after having freedom of religion in Japan, it still became no where near as popular as Shinto or Buddhism. Also, the concepts of Heaven and Hell don't only derive from Christianity/other Abrahamic religions. Egypt had it, ancient Greek mythology had it, the Aztecs had it, etc. We just call it Hell because that's the common word for it, but in other religions (including folk religions) and mythologies, the underworld/Hades/Naraka is very similar to the Christian Hell. The Japanese word for Hell is "jigoku," and the kanji comes from the Chinese characters "diyu," in which the direct translation would be "earth prison." But no one is going to call it/translate it as jigoku or perhaps even the earth prison when we already have a word in which everyone else is familiar with, "hell." I'm not arguing there is no Christian influence or not in the show, but I just wanted to tell you that the reasons you gave are not persuasive enough. I just re-read your first sentence again, and I would like to add in that in Egyptian mythology, they also judged the soul after death (Maat). Though I think this was better explained by The_Bif who responded to you in the other thread. |
| I really like the show but i don't like how they represent the whole system. So if a person was "good" he would send for reincarnation and if is bad is going to oblivion forever? With that system every soul ever existed or will exist it will eventually end up in void, cuz even the "purest" soul it will repeat the cycle again and again and again and eventually would stop being "pure" at some point. |
InstaKillerJan 16, 2015 12:26 PM
"When /a/ sends its fags, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re sending fags that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems to us. They’re bringing cancer. They’re bringing bait. They’re shitposters. And some, I assume, are good fags." -@Xinil |
starmaker032 said: Makaze_no_Moujuu said: Those who've watched the OVA are already familiar with the heaven or hell path that seems to be one of the cruxes of this show. It seemed simple enough...until it was revealed that the husband would be sent reincarnated, while the wife would be sent to the Void. See, Japan is a Shinto country, with heavy influences from Buddhism as well, and in Buddhism Heaven/Reincarnation, the Void and Hell are all three separate places. So that by itself raises a lot of questions, because there's several interpretations of the Void, let alone all three. Add in the fact that the show just began, and we have no idea of any of the specifics, we have no idea which exact interpretations are influencing the story, or if the meaning of the destinations have been switched up. Also, it's pretty freaking obvious that the wife lied. Just look at Decim's face. He already knows about these people's lives, so he knows she didn't cheat, which is why he was shocked by the actions of the wife. Yes, there's that brief flashback, after she says "Yes, there is someone else I love.", but we don't know when that took place, and she could be talking about a guy from a previous relationship. She gave her husband the out he desperately wanted most likely because she went thru the same torment her husband thinks he's going thru. Words like heaven and hell being used in the show and the idea of someone judging you after you die are Christian ideas first of all. Christianity came to Japan in the 16th century (1500-1600) aka over 400 years ago and it's one of the top religions in japan. There is clear Christian influence in the show, you should mention that. Also you are assuming the cause and that's a fallacy. "Also, it's pretty freaking obvious that the wife lied. Just look at Decim's face." You have no reason to believe that he was surprised for the reason you mentioned, could just as well have been because he was surprised because a girl that plays to win like the wife came out and admitted defeat. "I can't fool him anymore so I'll let him have it". Which is what I believe. She kept clinging to happy memories hoping that her husband would change. In the end she got the fear of not knowing what will become of her which is what she deserves. I don't think she loved her husband. She did cheat on him there is no way you calm down and smile when someone you love hates you like that out of the blue during the day of your honey moon after you find out that you died. She smiles cause she played him and he knew it now. The only thing we know was genuine and loving and caring was the doctor, we hear his thoughts and we know how happy he was. We never once heard what the wife was thinking. I'm assuming the smoker in her flashback is not her husband and my ideas are heavily influenced by that. Idk much about Shinto but from a Buddhist point of view it means getting refused the chance of ever entering Nirvana. And for Christian point of view the void = hell. It wouldn't make sense for her to go to Nirvana in Buddhist point of view since she is still very very much influenced and connected to her life and the pleasures of the real world. Yup, still wrong. And today's episode only solidified the fact that Christianity doesn't influence this show. |
| I was also right about Decim, and the other arbiters, knowing about the lives of the deceased. |
| I found the explanations that people posted here to be better than the actual explanation the show gave. The show as too simple. Makaze_no_Moujuu said: I was also right about Decim, and the other arbiters, knowing about the lives of the deceased. Wasn't this obvious? |
 "Your sight, my delight. Will you marry me?" |
ZetaZaku said: I found the explanations that people posted here to be better than the actual explanation the show gave. The show as too simple. Makaze_no_Moujuu said: I was also right about Decim, and the other arbiters, knowing about the lives of the deceased. Wasn't this obvious? You don't know how many people didn't see it XD. |
| Decent anime series, I think judgement is made fairly though. Heaven and hell are used as concepts to reveals one's true nature a.k.a draw out the darkness of the soul....... but in Buddhism there is no Heaven or Hell , Good or Bad. So one can't say that the void is a punishment and that reincarnation is Heaven. There is more to judgement then meets the eye |
Fish use the water surrounding their bodies to sense what will happen next... you can't fight the current you have to flow with it. If you do that, you might just catch the fish. |
SOS_Sama said: I think "The Void" mean heaven and "Reincarnation" is the hell. Gosh, didn't they already explain the whole thing. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
More topics from this board
Poll: » Death Parade Episode 9 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Mar 6, 2015 |
611 |
by Venidius
»»
8 hours ago |
|
Poll: » Death Parade Episode 11 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Mar 20, 2015 |
503 |
by bakakisima
»»
Sep 9, 9:47 AM |
|
Poll: » Death Parade Episode 8 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Feb 27, 2015 |
266 |
by bakakisima
»»
Sep 5, 9:09 AM |
|
Poll: » Death Parade Episode 6 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Feb 13, 2015 |
457 |
by bakakisima
»»
Sep 3, 8:41 AM |
|
Poll: » Death Parade Episode 2 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Jan 16, 2015 |
681 |
by bakakisima
»»
Aug 31, 7:34 AM |