| I think adding the reason people find the show sexist is a REALLY great idea. While I try avoiding sexism, it's pretty much impossible so there are types I can deal with much easier than others. |
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| I actually thought about adding reasons before, but it just seemed like too much work. new_user is the superior new admin. |
| Lol! Go for it! There are a bunch I couldn't detail because I haven't seen them. Hopefully, I interpreted comments right. We may need a few more categories, like coerced sex or something... (Sad that that is common enough to warrant a category!) |
| Shouldn't Elfen Lied be # too? Or does it have to be actually *graphical* to get that? |
| Oh, I just guessed for EL. What happens in that one? Should we just delete "graphic"? |
| Dunno, it's just....I don't know many anime that actually have graphic rape. Besides Berserk. So it just seems very specific. |
| Fixed! |
| Should we have a symbol for homophobic/transphobic stereotypes or even just for homophobia/transphobia? |
| Elfen Lied has pretty clear pedophilia rape. Like I won't say graphic but it's really really really clear what's going on. Not to mention just lots of naked underaged girls getting the shit beat out of them. |
| Hm, I guess we can, since we included pedophilia, or should we keep the list focus on sexism? If we're broadening it, maybe we'd want to include racism. I didn't want it to get unwieldy though because I feel like we'll need to add more categories just to cover standard sexism... |
| Correct me if I'm wrong. I can't really think of racism in anime. But I see homophobia and transphobia all the time. Though I'll admit it's possible I simply don't pay attention to racism that much. |
| I don't think we should include racism, and the reason being that so much anime IS racist in one way or another and it would just kinda fill up the list. Homophobic/transphobic stereotypes is a good inclusion though. |
| I don't see racism that often (because people of other races are usually just excluded from anime) which is why I figured it could be noted. I think Aizo said Shaman King had racist stuff in it. |
| Well if you're just talking about adding a symbol for racism for stuff we already have on the list I have no problem with that, but if we're going to add stuff to the list just because of racism that might be more problematic. |
| I'm going to go ahead and add Black Bullet, which came up sometime back in the thread, unless anybody has objections. From the six episodes I gave it before I completely gave up on it, it's filled with lolicon, and far too much of it plays out like a male harem fantasy. The female characters are all nominally capable, but they end up depending on the male lead for protection in every single case. Just because harem, I guess. : P |
SakuWolf said: Can I put my two cents in on the racism issue? Alot of people say anime doesn't try to include other races thus making it called racist. When you think more logical its understandable since there are many Asians in Asia and I have seen anime do different races. Thought the only one I have seen that is debatably racist is Hetalia and that's just for making fun of stereotypes something I don't see problematic unless your patriotic to your home land or something along those lines. I was thinking of stereotypes and caricatures, particularly African Americans since the Japanese often don't have exposure to them except from Hollywood movies and rap music. They're often portrayed in anime as all big and aggressive, if not with gold chains. I've even seen characters inspired by "Little Sambo" (which is, in fact, still published in Japan) or blackface, like Mr. Popo from DBZ. |
new_userNov 16, 2014 8:01 PM
| If you haven't seen it, then you're lucky, lol. I agree that Americans also stereotype and engage in sexism, racism, etc. It's pretty much universal, it's just the form that varies. That's awful if people were rude to you on Goodreads. Probably due to the huge romance-reading community there, I've actually found it a pretty sex-positive place, sometimes inconveniently so, when inappropriate images pop up when I'm browsing in public, lol. |
ShadowSouls said: How about Hyperdimension Neptunia? There is ecchi and all, but I have not seen any boys in there, just girls, and lolis maybe.... That should fit here in my opinion. Neptunia is pretty sexist from what I know. It has lots of rape jokes, doesn't it? |
SakuWolf said: The most funniest thing is most of them who were bashing me were al readers of 50 Shades of Grey and they called me a pervert. Also isn't the book's sexism off the charts? Im just curious because I don't want to.see that book (I don't like smut) But it really is sad most of the world can't get along without being racist at least. That is funny. I haven't read it, I tried, but I couldn't take the writing, lol. From what I've heard, though, the author didn't portray a healthy relationship, partly because she didn't know enough about the fetish she was writing to know what that there's a healthy, safe, consensual version, lol. But I am probably derailing the thread, sorries! |
| I read a couple chapters of 50 shades and the entire synopsis ( a fairly in depth one) for the first book. The odd thing about it is that the main girl isn't okay with being a submissive. She does it because she's fallen in love with him, but she's not too happy about it and at the end SHE leaves HIM because she can't handle being his submissive and he is the one left broken and hurt. And yeah, the whole thing about why he was a sadist was he had this tormented backstory and looked down on women etc etc so from the get go any relationship he had could never be healthy, it was set up that way. So yeah, it's unhealthy and I'm not sure why people love it, but at the same time it's a little different than what I initially thought. |
| If you guys agree, I'd also add these anime to the list: Accel World (not labeled as harem, but all the females in the show fawn over literally a caricature of a MC, and for no apparent reason of course), Itazura na Kiss (supposed to be a romance, but the guy does nothing but humiliate and ridicule the heroine, well maybe except like three moments, a she's still head over heels for him) and Shinrei Tantei Yakumo ("main" female serves no other purpose than uncovering male protagonist's tragic past and less fortunate comparison to his inteligence). |
daarkrai said: If you guys agree, I'd also add these anime to the list: Accel World (not labeled as harem, but all the females in the show fawn over literally a caricature of a MC, and for no apparent reason of course), Itazura na Kiss (supposed to be a romance, but the guy does nothing but humiliate and ridicule the heroine, well maybe except like three moments, a she's still head over heels for him) and Shinrei Tantei Yakumo ("main" female serves no other purpose than uncovering male protagonist's tragic past and less fortunate comparison to his inteligence). I haven't seen any of these, though Accel World was based on light novels made by the same guy who wrote the SAO light novels, so it wouldn't surprise me if it had more than a bit of a male-fantasy bend to it. Any of the other mods (or anyone else) have thoughts on those three? |
daarkrai said: Itazura na Kiss (supposed to be a romance, but the guy does nothing but humiliate and ridicule the heroine, well maybe except like three moments, a she's still head over heels for him) From what I remember, the girl had a crush on the guy, but he didn't like her and told her that. And then she kinda kept forcing herself on him until he finally fell in love with her. I don't remember him doing anything other than calling her an idiot (since she was an idiot), but that's no different than Mamoru and Usagi from Sailor Moon. (Fun fact: the characters are somewhat based on Mamoru and Usagi and ) About Yakumo, that sounds like every shounen. Like Naruto and Bleach for example, where the main girl does nothing for the whole manga. Sakura did improve a bit in the middle, only for the author to retcon all character development she had. |
 "Your sight, my delight. Will you marry me?" |
| @Amberleh: Yep! In more detail. Since the book was originally Twilight fanfic, the male lead is also stalkerish to boot, lol. But yeah, like SakuWolf said, it's the bedroom scenes that draw people, lol. Hey, if it got some people talking about their sexuality, so much the better. I didn't like that so many people were dismissive of it just because it was erotica targeted at women since women aren't as free to explore their sexuality without judgment. The SNL skit was hilarious though! Re: Yakumo, the female lead doesn't just have a smaller role, Yakumo is disdainful of her, but it seems like he's that way with everyone, right? Or is he more respectful of his male colleagues? |
| Yakumo just has a bad attitude in general. I'd have to watch the anime again to see if I can pick up on any sexism. It never bothered me before though. |
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| I added sci-fi harry. I mentioned it a while ago but only 1267 people watched it apparently so I wasn't going to get a second opinion, besides the two episodes where bad enough that I can say it definitely belongs on the list. The tags might be too much though considering I watched only 2 episodes, I don't mind removing them. |
| Added. |
| Anime such as Eiken and DxD are certainly...not good (I won't call Eiken awful because that would be an insult to awful anime), but didn't Amber say something about not wanting to start adding harem and ecchi shows to begin with? Because, well, what do you expect from a vast majority of those? A respectful anime with a multidimensional cast of characters with interesting dynamics that engage in genuine human interaction, thus creating believable dramatic developments? Don't get me wrong, I ofc don't mind if they are added, it's just that I find it not really necessary. Eiken is crap even MAL almost unanimously regards as such. Then again, DxD IS massively popular and held in high regard among certain audiences, so...I don't know anymore. I guess I am fine with whatever. |
metamorphiusNov 26, 2014 12:45 AM
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| Yes, I am very aware of the reasons for DxD's popularity as they are dead obvious. However, I said nothing whether that popularity is justified/positive or not, only pondering whether said anime may be the material for inclusion into the list because of it's 1. very popular, and 2. held in quite a high regard. That being said, my personal stance on inclusion of "pure" ecchi/harem titles is still as I said before - I find that may be unnecessary but I won't be losing sleep over it if they do get added. |
metamorphiusNov 26, 2014 6:47 AM
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| I suggested before that we should only add pure ecchi/harem if they're popular (so I guess I that would mean we add DxD, but eiken is unnecessary). But we don't really have set rules for it or anything. Essentially we would be adding softcore porn, I don't see much point in it. Air Gear could be added either way. Is it just the manga or is the anime just as bad? |
| I put ZnT on the list because, on top of of course being an ecchi harem, it also showed a guy forcing himself on the main girl in season three. The main guy on the main girl. She was very uncomfortable, asked him to stop, he said 'no it's okay we've been together' and then she says no again, he keeps trying, until she finally punches him through a wall. Not to mention it was portrayed as she was in the wrong, as I recall. This was episode 1 of season 3 which I accidently watched, not realizing it was season 3 and not 1. Not to mention the whole abusive tsundere thing. |
| I guess if Clannad is up there Kanon should be too. I'm not adding them though as I don't really agree with either being up there. |
| I have seen some tsundere characters whose motivations for being so foul-tempered at least made some sense. Louise from Zero no Tsukaima is an especially bad example of the trope, though. I actually don't think it's a completely atrocious show, for while it's a poorly-drawn and hammy harem show, it does at least have a decent plot, and I had some fun with it. But Louise is just an awful character through-and-through. Her tantrums are absolutely painful to watch. I haven't gotten to the point that Amberleh mentioned (I watched the first season to write a review and haven't gotten further), but I think that's more than enough grounds for it being on this list. |
| Hello~ here goes my first recommendation. I'd like to nominate Nagi no Asukara to the "nope" list, because of Hikari's behavior towards the women of the series. For example, in the first episode, he yells at Manaka for not wearing their old school uniform when transferring to a new school. It wasn't an isolated instance and I don't recall anyone telling him that he shouldn't treat his friends that way. To make things worse, Manaka and Hikari end up being canon by the end of the series. I apologize if this show has already been mentioned, by the way. I admittedly didn't read through all twenty pages of the thread. |
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| That's not really much to go on. He yells at people...that's it? Does he yell exclusively at women or something? |
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