Aldnoah.Zero Episode 2 Discussion

Keten said:


No, not at all, you are right, going all mental and insane over a persons death wouldn't necessarily be what a normal person would do.

BUT AT LEAST GIVE ME SOME SORT OF AN EMOTIONAL RESPONSE!!!

Because if your friend dies in front of you and you show absolutely no emotion towards it at all that makes you a good MC amirite guys???



If he gets development later on, sure. No matter the explanation though, an MC who doesn't emote is boring. If he doesn't care, why should I? We don't know anything about him because they didn't let us get to know any characters, they just shoved action in our faces, not even good action, boring 1-sided action.

JoaoZangetsu said:


More Eren you mean ? because i find him a pretty boring character.

Also, don't mind Kaioshin Sama posts, his posts were extremely biased since before the show even start.

Keten said:
If he gets development later on, sure. No matter the explanation though, an MC who doesn't emote is boring. If he doesn't care, why should I? We don't know anything about him because they didn't let us get to know any characters, they just shoved action in our faces, not even good action, boring 1-sided action.

Botato said:
Not too sure about that since emotionless characters are loved by many. Personally it doesn't bother me so I don't care if he remains emotionless, if there is a good explanation for it of course.

Keten said:


Loved by many =/= Good
By that logic Justin Bieber and Twilight are good too.

If you don't mind then that is okay. I am not telling you what to enjoy, just that it makes for a boring protagonist is all. If the character is emotionless then there is no way to develop him. He has no character, so he can't change. If they give a reason for it then that just gives him a reason for having no character.

Botato said:
It doesn't mean bad either. If it's boring to you don't expect it to be boring to others too.
And who said they can't change? You know what, how about we just wait a few more episodes?

Keten said:


I just explained why he can't change, or at least not for a while but I will evaluate more if you like.

He cannot change because we don't know anything about him yet. He doesn't have a character yet. Someone with no character doesn't change, they just get a character. This is why protagonists with no emotion but do badass things makes them worse characters than ones who make mistakes, learn from them and grow from them because you get to know them, you understand why they change. Seeing his friend die didn't change him, seeing the world go to ruins didn't change him, we don't even know what he thinks about all this and it's already 2 episodes in. Closest thing we got is his "Fuckin Martians" line that shows he dislikes the martians, but that isn't a character, that is just a guy who dislikes bad guys.

Also, declaring revenge after seeing his friend die also isn't development, it's change in objective, that has nothing to do with his mind or personality, it only has to do with his motivation. I know you weren't claiming otherwise but just wanted to point out that he didn't develop even the slightest from seeing his friend die right in front of him.

Also, if you need to wait 3 or more episodes to get a grip on how a main character is, then the pacing of the narrative is flawed for not spending enough time on the actual characters of a story.

I am not claiming it is boring to you, I am saying that critically speaking, it is lazy writing and makes for a boring main character.

Edit: If all you need to do to write a good main character is nothing, and then explain why, then I lose faith in writing.

Botato said:
Exactly, it's 2 episodes in only.

Keten said:


...Your point?

I wasn't claiming the show as a whole is shit, just that from what it's given me so far there is nothing to praise over and yet people are praising it. Plenty of shows have excitement in their first 2 episodes whilst providing a realistic setting with good characters. This show does none of that. If people want to praise it based off 2 episodes, then I am free to criticize it when it needs criticizing. Look how many 5/5's are up there, what did this episode do that is 5/5 worthy?

Though the creators did say to watch to episode 3 to be amazed, so who knows, maybe the magical third episode will solve all my problems. Well maybe not since a lot of my issues are issues that wouldn't make sense anymore to just fix. Regardless, if the 3rd episode isn't anything special then I will just drop it. Though I will save my judgement for the next episode. Not asking for it to blow me away, just want it to be something smart, or god forbid, something that isn't overdone.

I will give credit where credit is due and I will give criticism where it is due. The criticisms I gave are not towards the show as a whole, simply what I have seen of it thus far and a prediction of how good the show will be which is taken with a grain of salt.

Botato said:

Point: it's still early to judge.

"5 out of 5: Loved it!"
There are a lot of things in this episode for people to "love" it, I don't see the problem in that.

As for characters and story, I believe one needs to watch at least half before they judge. Take freaking Steins;Gate for example, I was going to drop it after episode 3, but kept going for some reason. And it turned out to have a great story and really good mc.

Keten said:


Give credit to Eren, at least he emotes something! That doesn't make him a good character though no, just gives him 1-dimension. He's still boring, just not emotionless.

Bringing up Kaioshin Sama is a bit off-topic. I didn't even bring up Kaioshin Sama in the post you're replying to. o.o

Keten said:


...Your point?

I wasn't claiming the show as a whole is shit, just that from what it's given me so far there is nothing to praise over and yet people are praising it. Plenty of shows have excitement in their first 2 episodes whilst providing a realistic setting with good characters. This show does none of that. If people want to praise it based off 2 episodes, then I am free to criticize it when it needs criticizing. Look how many 5/5's are up there, what did this episode do that is 5/5 worthy?

Though the creators did say to watch to episode 3 to be amazed, so who knows, maybe the magical third episode will solve all my problems. Well maybe not since a lot of my issues are issues that wouldn't make sense anymore to just fix. Regardless, if the 3rd episode isn't anything special then I will just drop it. Though I will save my judgement for the next episode. Not asking for it to blow me away, just want it to be something smart, or god forbid, something that isn't overdone.

I will give credit where credit is due and I will give criticism where it is due. The criticisms I gave are not towards the show as a whole, simply what I have seen of it thus far and a prediction of how good the show will be which is taken with a grain of salt.

JoaoZangetsu said:

No, showing emotion =/= dimensionality, you're trying applying a standart to something that is very subjective and complex, dimensionality has to do with the devolopment of the character, for example, that martian guy slaughting everyone there, he show much more emotion, but don't pass more than a minor antagonist for the situaton.
Trying to do something different with the MC regarding that is a good thing, but no one knows the character yet, and has much more room for that.

And my post about Kaioshin was general lol, not for you.

JoaoZangetsu said:


This is basically "Why they like something i don't like, overrated!".

Darklight0303 said:
Jesus Christ MAL has become invaded by would be elitists that need to nitpick every single thing, recently.

Back to the episode at hand. Loved the action and that OST oh I can't wait to get my hands on it. Both of the insert songs were so damn good!

Keten said:
Fair enough though, you won't take my points seriously unless I have watched more. Though honestly that just leads me to be bait for the "If you don't like it, why are you watching it?" crowd...

Good chatting with ya though. :)

Keten said:
Of course the guy slaughtering people is no one important, though honestly he gets more time on the screen then any of the characters that actually died and we were supposed to care about.

Botato said:
Thing is you should judge the episode for what it is for the time being, then AFTER more episodes are out you can make a better judgement of the overall series. And even better if you watch the whole thing.

As for the why watch it if you don't like it, that's fine. What is NOT fine though is:
1. Bitching about it every single week (at least keep it at a minimum).
2. Attacking people who are enjoying it.

As long as you don't do the above two things I don't see anything wrong with it.

Keten said:


Okay, thank you for clarifying.

Of course the guy slaughtering people is no one important, though honestly he gets more time on the screen then any of the characters that actually died and we were supposed to care about.

As for dimensionality, it has to do with a characters personality, if a character has no emotions, then he has no personality. You are right, it is subjective and complex, when you get into 3 dimensions or 4 dimensions, but 1-2 is not subjective or complex, it is very easy to understand.

1-dimensional would be the slaughtering guy. He isn't important because he also has no real personality, he has 1 dimension, evil, that is his personality, he never thinks about being evil, he never stops being evil, he never has any moments of depth to him, as such he is 1-dimensional.

A character with no personality whatsoever besides maybe sort of hating the martians because they are bad guys? That is no dimensions at all, I suppose you could call it 1-dimensional as a robot archetype, so okay, 1-dimensional. That doesn't change the fact that he is boring.

Also, how is this doing something different with an MC? You mean to tell me you never saw an emotionless MC before? Okay, most of the time they at least show some form of emotion when they see someone they know die, but it's not like everything that's different is necessarily good. He is just a robot archetype as far as I can tell. You are right, no one knows the character yet, because
A. They didn't focus enough on him and it's already 2 episodes in.
and B. He has no character yet besides being a robot.

Also, you are right, I was being too whiney there, sorry.

Keten said:


...I attacked people? When? o.o When did I ever say, "No you are not allowed to watch this, you are dumb for enjoying this." I would never say that. I was a bit whiny before when I was like, "Oh look at all those 5/5's" but I wasn't bashing the people who rated it, I just wondered what it was they thought was so amazing about it is all. It's a discussion thread. Then when people say to me what they thought, I tell them my thoughts, and that is a discussion. :

I agree with you that I cannot be 100% about a show unless I have seen more of it sure, but I can make predictions that are taken with a grain of salt yes. I wouldn't make the prediction every week, that would just be repetitive.

Botato said:
No no no I never said you attacked people. I'm just saying that I see nothing wrong in watching something you don't like for whatever reason, and telling you that you shouldn't see anything wrong either (aka don't get bothered by people saying it), as long as the two things I listed aren't done.

JoaoZangetsu said:

Not being a robot, but being 'indifferent'(and there are more than one type), and if you think better, 'indifference' is an type of emotion too, i feel indifferent with people a lot, i may be too cold, but i tend to not be so parcial in any situation and supress my emotions, so i can think about it better before make a decision, and i think that's what happened to MC there, as they are chased by an martian full of hate and bloodlust,
So, a character showing apathy for the situation is not something not realistic, as i said that our emotions are complex, and is very realistic from a psychological viewpoint, saying that, dimensionality will depend from the development of the character, as he not being a superficial type of character.

JoaoZangetsu said:
I may be rude there, but thanks for understand my point, a general mal user would be irritated by it lol.

Keten said:


Okay thank you for clarifying, you were just saying when it is not okay to do it, and ya I am not bothered by people who say that, though I am tired of hearing it. lol



I don't think I can agree with you on this. I mean sure, indifference exists, but I mean, is it really interesting to watch a guy show no emotions? "Oh what will he do now that his comrade has fallen? Oh right, he doesn't care, nevermind" There's no depth there, it's just a kid who doesn't care and that is his entire character. (Okay not really cause it's only the first 2 episodes but just basing this off the first 2 and if he continues to be this way the rest of the series)

Edit: It isn't just indifferent characters either. Any character that I see where they deal with a loss of some sort, but then an episode or 2 later they completely forget about it lacks depth. It makes it seem like it didn't even make a difference to the characters at all.

JoaoZangetsu said:

Well, that depends on many factors, Jotaro from JoJo for example is pretty much indifferent and barely talks, and he only stopped being unidimensional in the other parts, even staying being the same Jotaro that everyone knows. but for being a such badass in a manga with a premise like JoJo, he is a fun character for me (and one that i like very much).

Squall is an example of boring indifferent character.

Keten said:


Characters and story flaws are not nitpicks. That is what makes a show good or bad. I am not an elitist because I criticize things.

Keten said:


I don't mind Jotaro because Jojo doesn't take itself seriously in the slightest bit. He isn't exactly my favorite character either. Lol

Aldnoah.Zero seems like it wants you to take it seriously and I cannot take it seriously when there is practically no realism besides "people die". This isn't how war is and this isn't how everyday people are. I could forgive it a tiny bit if there was more to it than that but as the episodes thus far have shown, I don't think there is.

Squall is boring yes. As is Cloud and every other MC from Final Fantasy that had no emotion besides pouting.

KazukiTachibana said:

And being critical of things is how we learn to improve upon said flaws and get amazing works! I, for one, am not content to just be served the same fan-service-y moe blob season after season.

Also, Keten, thank you for joining this thread -- I felt so alone in my opinions before you appeared! You are a god send!

JoaoZangetsu said:

There are some deep in JoJo through, its not all about bizarre things.

I liked Cloud, he is indifferent but is not unidimensional.

JoaoZangetsu said:


More Eren you mean ? because i find him a pretty boring character.

Also, don't mind Kaioshin Sama posts, his posts were extremely biased since before the show even start.

Akanezora said:
The MC is really expressive, I mean, only his best friend died before him. I'm joking of course, there will surely be an explanation for his behaviour. (Or at least I hope so)

The music is 10/10, based Sawano I'd say. Also, the animations for the explosions are fucking outstanding.

The next episode is pretty decisive, I wonder if the MC will find the super martian robot to pilot, or will use tactics and mind to fight back?

T-Flip said:
I need you to explain these parts please

Wind_God_Girl said:

And yeah I didn't see a lot of old mecha anime's so I have no idea if there's one better than this current series.

ex_necross said:
Aldnoah Zero is definitely one of the best mecha to come out in the past several years at least, and it's a solid, or even great series... but there are tons of better mecha out there.

fst said:


Quite a bold statement to make 2 episodes in.

ex_necross said:

Mobile Suit Gundam
Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam
Mobile Suit Gundam Char's Counter Attack
Mobile Suit Victory Gundam
Mobile Suit Gundam 00
Mobile Suit Gundam Wing
Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn
Vision of Escaflowne
Code Geass
Patlabor
Space Runaway Ideon
Full Metal Panic!
Neon Genesis Evangelion
Turn A Gundam
Macross
Sidonia no Kishi

I could go on but it would just be a big wall of text.

Aldnoah Zero is definitely one of the best mecha to come out in the past several years at least, and it's a solid, or even great series... but there are tons of better mecha out there.

KazukiTachibana said:
Also, I have to say that I disagree that Inaho shows any emotion in the image you posted prior. That's not really how I interpreted it, as there were know visual cues to tell me that he was doing anything but staring at the ground in his own little world -- we didn't get a tear, or gritted teeth, or clenched fist, or even a look of regret and sorrow. He just sort of stands there, looking at the ground, with a neutral expression on his face. You're welcome to disagree, of course, but it's still just weird to me.

derpyasian said:
I knew princess would be alive it was pretty obvious but aside from that wouldn't truck have gotten slower because it was carrying the mech?

Fai said:
So how long, considering this is Urobutcher, till the princess turns into a yandere hitler?

Botato said:
Considering that they apparently asked people to at least watch until episode 3, that would be my guess.

Fai said:
Meh OP - very good visuals but the same usual kalafina stuff in terms of songs(as in every sentence sounds like funeral march and the musical arrangement is same-y, but hey at least they restrained themselves on the kajiura yuki's chorus of doom this time)..

Decent second episode otherwise. I can see this either going into masterpieces or into CodeGeass/Valvrave level of "let's watch it for the mindfuck".

So how long, considering this is Urobutcher, till the princess turns into a yandere hitler?

Kaioshin_Sama said:


He has 1 episode left to enact whatever crazy grimderp twist he wants on the script directly and then it's up to whatever template he has setup already if any. Personally I'm hoping he shows some restraint here.

The princess being all evil would be incredibly dumb and out of nowhere for this point in the story so I don't see it happening that way. Then again you have stuff like Madoka Rebellion showing he has no problems curve balling a character in a totally crazy and extreme direction with only the most minimal of foreshadowing if you can evem call it that so who knows with this guy. For all we know her with the gun in the OP could just be a further indication of her willingness to use force wavering which we can already see is a bit of a problem for her. To me that would be the more interesting way to play it then just having her be all crazy out of nowhere.

Fai said:
I can see her going . Either way she's an idealist and that means horrible shit happening to you, if you are in Urobuchi or Taniguchi stories.