Puella Magi Madoka Magica: The Movie -Rebellion-
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epicscreator said: Luxanna said: The real question is: what the hell do we call the new Homura? Akuma Homura? Homurakuma? Homucifer? I think I like the second one the best, as it follows the same principle as Madokami. I prefer Homucifer, since it sounds the coolest when said out loud, imo. Eh, but it doesn't fit with Madokami. :/ |
rtil said: vampko said: As for Homura, her wish's power was crazy. She looped time continuously and had some control over time itself. She could shape the world how she wanted to. this is only half true. she does not have the power to shape the world. if anything, the first season demonstrated that no matter how many times she goes back, she has absolutely no power to change people's fate, which is why her decision at the end of Rebellion was stupid. she has not accomplished her goal, and she never will. only Madoka can change the world by sacrificing herself. even then, some things remain the same. She changed Madoka's fate. Without her countless loops, Madoka would have never had the karmic potential to make her wish at the end. Without Homura's meddling Kyubei would have never needed to reveal the full truth to Madoka, without which Madoka would have been unable to fully understand the system enough to make the wish she did. If Homura didn't do anything Madoka would have wasted her wish on saving that cat. |
Luxanna said: epicscreator said: Luxanna said: The real question is: what the hell do we call the new Homura? Akuma Homura? Homurakuma? Homucifer? I think I like the second one the best, as it follows the same principle as Madokami. I prefer Homucifer, since it sounds the coolest when said out loud, imo. Eh, but it doesn't fit with Madokami. :/ Isn't Akuma Homura the 'official' name? I don't have a source on it though. I think it's a clever play on Akemi Homura, and actually sounds pretty cool when you say it out loud. Or maybe Akuhomu |
| Okay here's what I think: Homura slowly devolved into a yandere who yearned for Madoka. Her lust transformed her into a powerful witch. Lust, amongst her grief, confused Kubey. She overpowered Madoka with the old: "If I can't have you, nobody can!" And basically fucked the universe. I also noticed the spotlight on Sayaka and Kyoko's romance. I think it may be cannon too. Also, right towards the end, Homura admits that she loves Madoka. Love drove her into turning yandere enough to steal Madoka's power so that she can make her own universe. |
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FierceAlchemist said: Janethan23 said: FierceAlchemist said: Janethan23 said: If you had the ability to travel back in time and save Jesus from crucifixion by bringing him to a foreign land (probably an island) so far away and keep him there against his will; will you do it? This question has some correlations philosophically to the situation Homura had when she was faced with the decision to rebel against Madoka's wishes. If you say: - YES - In a way you sympathize with Homura's intentions of saving the one most important person to her but in exchange; the damnation of humanity by preventing everyone's redemption. - NO - You accept that people are destined to fulfill their purpose of existence regardless how painful or difficult it will be. Sacrifice requires strength not solely for the ONE but for those who will bear witness to it. The big difference with Homura is it's stated she only took a part of the Law of Cycles, the parts with Madoka before she became a concept. Witches don't seem to exist in the new world, so the Law of Cycles still allows girl's to pass on. It's as if she saved Jesus from death but also redeemed all of humanity. The single biggest problem is that she did it against Madoka's will. That's true but the thing is that when events in history are altered there is a somewhat equal amount of events that will balance it (unexpected tragedies). I've watched STEINS GATE http://myanimelist.net/anime/9253/Steins;Gate and altering events in time may also come with its price. Jesus may have been saved from death and lived a long life peacefully but he will never fulfill his destiny while people around the world continued to commit sins. I love Steins;Gate :) The Madoka universe has always run on the idea of balance, hope equaling despair, and repercussions to everyone's wishes. Homura's universe may be this paradise right now, but I gotta believe that something's gonna fall apart. Either the Law of Cycles doesn't work exactly how it did before or the stability of the world is tied to Homura's mental state. There has to be something that goes wrong, or else I don't see much point in rebelling when the world is so close to perfect. When Sayaka was talking to Homura after she stole Madokami's power did you see the water turn red when Homura got mad (wine?) (blood?) I think your hypothesis about Homura's mental state is correct. Also, Madokami is still in there, and she almost slipped out until Homura hugged Madoka. |
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rtil said: the point is that no matter what Homura does, things will never be the way she wants them to, and in the grander scheme of things nothing ever changes. if this is not more apparant after the events of Rebellion i'm not sure what else the writers could do to make it more obvious. Of course not, but that doesn't mean she's not going to keep trying. I mean, she did go through almost 100 loops and didn't plan on stopping until she found out every loop just makes Madoka's fate worse. |
Esclair said: rtil said: the point is that no matter what Homura does, things will never be the way she wants them to, and in the grander scheme of things nothing ever changes. if this is not more apparant after the events of Rebellion i'm not sure what else the writers could do to make it more obvious. Of course not, but that doesn't mean she's not going to keep trying. I mean, she did go through almost 100 loops and didn't plan on stopping until she found out every loop just makes Madoka's fate worse. I saw someone making a good point that Homura's wish and Madoka's wish inherently can't be fulfilled at the same time. Homura wants to protect Madoka, but Madoka wants to protect all magical girls, including Homura. As long as Madoka is the Law of Cycles, Homura can't protect her and its been shown that Homura's control over Madoka's powers in the new world is pretty tenuous. She didn't rewrite the universe, just put a barrier over Madoka's universe in order to alter her fate. Homura's not the type to give up easily, but I think that scene in the hallway shows that she knows Madoka will eventually realize the truth and become her enemy. This new world is really a pretty miserable one for her, but she keeps at it because she thinks its what's best for Madoka. |
| Homura didn't steal Madoka's power. She just tapped into it like a hacker would control ones system by injecting her own programming. Homura seems more like she's using her own tainted powers which was boosted with Madoka's infinite cosmic energy. |
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GohanwaOkazu said: Now that Homura controls this world, I wonder how she can be faced in a next installment. Madoka still has her powers but it looks pointless since Homura has total control around. Unless of course something 'breaks' Homura and Godoka will be able to awaken and I suppose Sayaka will also play more of a role in this. The post-ending scene was totally symbolic though? == We'll have an interesting situation in which potential all-mighty good and evil are coexisting in a single classroom. The post-ending scene is symbolic, and from what I have read, wasn't in the original script by Urobuchi. I think it tells of Homura's sad situation of wanting to have Madoka (having fully realized what had happened) to confront her at the place of intimate memory (the Luminous hills). You'd notice that she has a surprised (even delighted?) face when she hears the sound of someone coming up the hill. As it turns out to be Kyubei ("Hey, did you think it was Madoka? Sorry, it's me!"), Homura tortures the poor incubator, as she dances alone (notice in the OP, it's only Homura who's not dancing; all the others are dancing merrily). The semi-official name (at least the one used by Shaft in the character design revealed in the official pamphlet) is Akuma Homura. Fans can call her whatever they want, but AKeMi => AKuMa transition sounds natural to me (so natural that Urobuchi could have thought about this ending at the very beginning- which is apparently not the case). That's a nice interpretation of the post credits scene. I think it's supposed to be more symbolic than anything else (everything seemed to be halved like the moon). I will say I don't think Homura has total control over the new universe. It's obvious Sayaka still had her memories and even after Homura suppressed them, she said she'd always remember that Homura is evil. I think it's gonna be like it was in her soul gem's labyrinth; everyone's gonna be fine until someone starts questioning the world and all the girls are gonna have vague memories that things aren't right. Also in the hallway scene, Homura looks genuinely terrified when Madoka starts to reconnect with her powers. If she had true control over the universe, she should have been able to snap her fingers and force it to stop. Instead, she hugged Madoka and nearly started crying. Homura covered the universe with her barrier, but Madoka is the only one who can truly re-write the universe. I think the stability of her new universe is kinda precarious, which would explain why she acts so crazy in the post-credits scene. She knows Madoka will become her enemy one day and she'll be alone again. |
| ANN has posted their review of the movie: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/review/puella-magi-madoka-magica-the-movie-part-3/rebellion It's very well written. I would say while we all knew that the beginning of the film was fluff, it was enjoyable fluff. Right around the time I was thinking, "when can we get to the real story?" Homura started doubting the world so I think it lasted just long enough. As for the ending, her thoughts seem more in line with what I felt walking out of the theater. But after having some time to think about it, there's actually a lot of foreshadowing for why Homura does what she does. It's not as simple as "Rebellion ends in a victory for selfish, possessive love, where love means getting everything you ever wanted from another person, resulting in a universe ordered by vengeance, denial, and despair." |
| Did anyone notice in the end of ep12 after Homura was talking to Kyubey she then jumped from the skyscraper and landed gently with white angel wings and then after the credits it shows her about to battle some wraiths in the desert but this time her wings are now tainted in chaotic fashion like a witch's labyrinth. |
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Janethan23 said: Did anyone notice in the end of ep12 after Homura was talking to Kyubey she then jumped from the skyscraper and landed gently with white angel wings and then after the credits it shows her about to battle some wraiths in the desert but this time her wings are now tainted in chaotic fashion like a witch's labyrinth. I think this is one of the big pieces of evidence to the theory that Homura's powers change as a result of her wish. She has the wings and the bow in episode 12, perhaps inheriting some of Madoka's powers because of their connection even though she's now a concept? This does create a precedent for Homura's powers changing, although it still doesn't quite explain how she becomes so radically powerful when she splits Madokami apart. Maybe it's a combo of her soul gem becoming something new and her wish to protect Madoka that allows her to do what she did. |
FierceAlchemist said: Janethan23 said: Did anyone notice in the end of ep12 after Homura was talking to Kyubey she then jumped from the skyscraper and landed gently with white angel wings and then after the credits it shows her about to battle some wraiths in the desert but this time her wings are now tainted in chaotic fashion like a witch's labyrinth. I think this is one of the big pieces of evidence to the theory that Homura's powers change as a result of her wish. She has the wings and the bow in episode 12, perhaps inheriting some of Madoka's powers because of their connection even though she's now a concept? This does create a precedent for Homura's powers changing, although it still doesn't quite explain how she becomes so radically powerful when she splits Madokami apart. Maybe it's a combo of her soul gem becoming something new and her wish to protect Madoka that allows her to do what she did. Homura seems like she hacked into Madoka's power when they touched then she invoked her will while all of this was happening in a just restored universe Madoka watches over. Homura poured all of her will and tainted power sealed in her soul gem to overpower a surprised Madoka that wasn't expecting such a betrayal. Many might argue that Madoka whom is supposed to be omniscient and all knowing should see this plot but when you love and trust someone wholeheartedly you would sometimes NOT believe what it is presented to you but rather give them the benefit of a doubt. |
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| ...What. Just saw it tonight. I really don't even know what I just saw. These questions may be asked throughout the seventeen pages, but please humor me if you know the answers. Why did Homura become a demon? I realize her soul gem was tainted with "love" and such, but why didn't she just go with Madoka? Isn't that what she wanted? Isn't it mean to Madoka to trap her in a world of illusions? How is Mami alive? I didn't understand that at the end of the TV show either. Why does Nagisa even exist? What was the point? Is Sayaka alive? Why is she in this new world if she died and went with Madoka or whatever? Like I don't get how Homura can just like make her a person again. And I don't get the post-ed scene at all... |
Gar_LoganDec 12, 2013 8:14 PM
GarLogan78 said: ...What. Just saw it tonight. I really don't even know what I just saw. These questions may be asked throughout the seventeen pages, but please humor me if you know the answers. Why did Homura become a demon? I realize her soul gem was tainted with "love" and such, but why didn't she just go with Madoka? Isn't that what she wanted? Isn't it mean to Madoka to trap her in a world of illusions? If you think back to the flower scene, a lot of it makes sense. You can read a transcript of it here: http://wiki.puella-magi.net/The_Rebellion_Story/Transcript "In that dream Madoka went to a place far away, a place that I could never reach. I was the only one who remembered Madoka, I was lonely and in pain. However no else understood my feeling. In the end I doubted whether or not the Madoka I remembered ever existed in the first place or just that something I imagined." I think this paragraph is our key to understanding what happened from the end of the TV show to where this film begins. If you rewatch episode 12, Homura is never shown to be happy about the way things have turned out. She lets out a blood curdling "Madoka!" scream as Madoka disappears in that realm of cosmic light. Then she goes off and fights alone, with only Kyubey by her side, with a serious, grim look on her face and says: "This world isn't worth saving. Tragedy and sadness will never truly disappear. But even so, it's the place she once tried to protect." She has no love for the world and feels terrible that she failed in her mission to protect Madoka, but fights on because it's the world Madoka sacrificed herself for. And I believe she felt that way for a while. However, as the above quote from the flower scene states, the loneliness started to get to her over time until it got so bad she began to doubt if Madoka ever existed. I think it's around this time that she falls into despair and is about to turn into a witch until Kyubey traps her soul gem. So the Homura who's talking to Madoka in that flower scene is one who's suffered horribly in her absence, to the point of wallowing in despair. Then we get this: M: That is a very painful dream, however don't worry, I would never go away and leave you alone. H: How can you be so certain? M: Because it's me. If that it's something that even Homura-chan started to cry about, I would never be able to endure it. H: That is also something that is unbearable to you? M: That is right, Homura-chan Sayaka-chan, Mami-san, Kyouko-chan, papa, mama, Tatsuya and Hitomi-chan and the rest of the class, I don't want to part with any of you. Even if that is something I must do, I would not have the courage to go through when the time comes. H: Are these your true feelings then? Then I was a fool to have misunderstood it. I should not have approved. I should have used every possible mean to stop you back then. She goes on to tell Madoka how courageous and selfless she really is, even if she doesn't realize it, "even if it means hurting yourself". This is the key scene for me to understanding Homura's actions. Now she believes that Madoka really is suffering, being removed from her friends and family. She is Madokami out of duty and selflessness rather than happiness. This is enough to motivate Homura, who has spent the last X-number of weeks/months/years since episode 12 despairing that Madoka is gone, to create a new universe where the Law of Cycles still operates and Madoka is allowed to live a normal life. GarLogan78 said: How is Mami alive? I didn't understand that at the end of the TV show either. When Madoka made her wish to destroy all witches, Mami wasn't killed by the witch Charlotte. GarLogan78 said: Why does Nagisa even exist? What was the point? Is Sayaka alive? Why is she in this new world if she died and went with Madoka or whatever? Like I don't get how Homura can just like make her a person again. Madoka allowed herself to be drawn into Homura's soul gem labyrinth, but she brought Sayaka and Nagisa with her so they could help when the time came to save Homura. She also implanted her powers and memories into them so she'd be normal Madoka and Kyubey couldn't catch her. Both Sayaka and Nagisa were in magical girl heaven with Madoka before all this, so they have their witch powers too. GarLogan78 said: And I don't get the post-ed scene at all... That's supposed to be cryptic and symbolic. Seeing how she's on the hill with the chairs we saw in the recap movie OP but there's only one chair and moon is split in half, it's supposed to emphasize how Homura is alone in the new world. |
FierceAlchemist said: ........ Thank you so much for the in depth responses! When Homura was first about to become a witch (when Kyuubey trapped her soul gem), was she willing to just go to magical girl heaven? Was it her time in her own illusion that made her decide to become a demon in the end? |
GarLogan78 said: FierceAlchemist said: ........ Thank you so much for the in depth responses! When Homura was first about to become a witch (when Kyuubey trapped her soul gem), was she willing to just go to magical girl heaven? Was it her time in her own illusion that made her decide to become a demon in the end? Here's what someone else posted about that scene: "Then at the scene where Madoka reaches out to Homura's witch state (this is the scene before they shoot combined arrows to break Kyubey's barrier). Madoka comes and tells Homura to never abandon hope as she'll never abandon her and to not give up. Homura then apologizes for being a coward, and says that sh'ell do anything to meet her again, and she can hold any sin, and it doesn't matter how she is, as long as she can stand by Madoka's side. Then Madoka asks to go back together, and Homura answers with an affirmation. Madoka then asks Homura if she's afraid, and Homura says no, she won't hesitate anymore. On first read, this scene seems to imply that Homura is apologizing for trying to kill herself, and that she's ready to join Madoka, but on 2nd read, it seems to mean she's apologizing for putting Madoka in danger (with Kyubei) but she'll become anything in order to be by Madoka's side, and that she won't hesitate again (to make the decision to 'correctly' protect Madoka)." |
FierceAlchemist said: GarLogan78 said: FierceAlchemist said: ........ Thank you so much for the in depth responses! When Homura was first about to become a witch (when Kyuubey trapped her soul gem), was she willing to just go to magical girl heaven? Was it her time in her own illusion that made her decide to become a demon in the end? Here's what someone else posted about that scene: "Then at the scene where Madoka reaches out to Homura's witch state (this is the scene before they shoot combined arrows to break Kyubey's barrier). Madoka comes and tells Homura to never abandon hope as she'll never abandon her and to not give up. Homura then apologizes for being a coward, and says that sh'ell do anything to meet her again, and she can hold any sin, and it doesn't matter how she is, as long as she can stand by Madoka's side. Then Madoka asks to go back together, and Homura answers with an affirmation. Madoka then asks Homura if she's afraid, and Homura says no, she won't hesitate anymore. On first read, this scene seems to imply that Homura is apologizing for trying to kill herself, and that she's ready to join Madoka, but on 2nd read, it seems to mean she's apologizing for putting Madoka in danger (with Kyubei) but she'll become anything in order to be by Madoka's side, and that she won't hesitate again (to make the decision to 'correctly' protect Madoka)." That makes sense, but it is so sad XD. It feels awful that it just ended with Homura being a demon and everyone's memories being wiped. |
GarLogan78 said: FierceAlchemist said: GarLogan78 said: FierceAlchemist said: ........ Thank you so much for the in depth responses! When Homura was first about to become a witch (when Kyuubey trapped her soul gem), was she willing to just go to magical girl heaven? Was it her time in her own illusion that made her decide to become a demon in the end? Here's what someone else posted about that scene: "Then at the scene where Madoka reaches out to Homura's witch state (this is the scene before they shoot combined arrows to break Kyubey's barrier). Madoka comes and tells Homura to never abandon hope as she'll never abandon her and to not give up. Homura then apologizes for being a coward, and says that sh'ell do anything to meet her again, and she can hold any sin, and it doesn't matter how she is, as long as she can stand by Madoka's side. Then Madoka asks to go back together, and Homura answers with an affirmation. Madoka then asks Homura if she's afraid, and Homura says no, she won't hesitate anymore. On first read, this scene seems to imply that Homura is apologizing for trying to kill herself, and that she's ready to join Madoka, but on 2nd read, it seems to mean she's apologizing for putting Madoka in danger (with Kyubei) but she'll become anything in order to be by Madoka's side, and that she won't hesitate again (to make the decision to 'correctly' protect Madoka)." That makes sense, but it is so sad XD. It feels awful that it just ended with Homura being a demon and everyone's memories being wiped. It is sad, but when you really look at it, everyone's alive and happy except Homura. The Law of Cycles seems to be working without Madoka but Homura had to become the villain to do it. |
FierceAlchemist said: GarLogan78 said: FierceAlchemist said: GarLogan78 said: FierceAlchemist said: ........ Thank you so much for the in depth responses! When Homura was first about to become a witch (when Kyuubey trapped her soul gem), was she willing to just go to magical girl heaven? Was it her time in her own illusion that made her decide to become a demon in the end? Here's what someone else posted about that scene: "Then at the scene where Madoka reaches out to Homura's witch state (this is the scene before they shoot combined arrows to break Kyubey's barrier). Madoka comes and tells Homura to never abandon hope as she'll never abandon her and to not give up. Homura then apologizes for being a coward, and says that sh'ell do anything to meet her again, and she can hold any sin, and it doesn't matter how she is, as long as she can stand by Madoka's side. Then Madoka asks to go back together, and Homura answers with an affirmation. Madoka then asks Homura if she's afraid, and Homura says no, she won't hesitate anymore. On first read, this scene seems to imply that Homura is apologizing for trying to kill herself, and that she's ready to join Madoka, but on 2nd read, it seems to mean she's apologizing for putting Madoka in danger (with Kyubei) but she'll become anything in order to be by Madoka's side, and that she won't hesitate again (to make the decision to 'correctly' protect Madoka)." That makes sense, but it is so sad XD. It feels awful that it just ended with Homura being a demon and everyone's memories being wiped. It is sad, but when you really look at it, everyone's alive and happy except Homura. The Law of Cycles seems to be working without Madoka but Homura had to become the villain to do it. True. I don't really understand the new world order either. If there are not witches or magical girls, who destroys the wraiths? Homura herself? |
GarLogan78 said: FierceAlchemist said: GarLogan78 said: FierceAlchemist said: GarLogan78 said: FierceAlchemist said: ........ That makes sense, but it is so sad XD. It feels awful that it just ended with Homura being a demon and everyone's memories being wiped. It is sad, but when you really look at it, everyone's alive and happy except Homura. The Law of Cycles seems to be working without Madoka but Homura had to become the villain to do it. True. I don't really understand the new world order either. If there are not witches or magical girls, who destroys the wraiths? Homura herself? It's left pretty vague but here's what I think. Homura mentions Wraiths so I assume the law of cycles is still working and witches aren't born. We also see the magical girl rings so I assume everyone's still a magical girl except Madoka. Some people think that instead of the law of cycles, Homura forces all the despair onto Kyubey, thus the post credits scene. |
FierceAlchemist said: GarLogan78 said: FierceAlchemist said: GarLogan78 said: FierceAlchemist said: GarLogan78 said: FierceAlchemist said: ........ That makes sense, but it is so sad XD. It feels awful that it just ended with Homura being a demon and everyone's memories being wiped. It is sad, but when you really look at it, everyone's alive and happy except Homura. The Law of Cycles seems to be working without Madoka but Homura had to become the villain to do it. True. I don't really understand the new world order either. If there are not witches or magical girls, who destroys the wraiths? Homura herself? It's left pretty vague but here's what I think. Homura mentions Wraiths so I assume the law of cycles is still working and witches aren't born. We also see the magical girl rings so I assume everyone's still a magical girl except Madoka. Some people think that instead of the law of cycles, Homura forces all the despair onto Kyubey, thus the post credits scene. Oh, I see. Thanks for putting up with my questions XD |
triton6783 said: Is there something other than a camera rip available now? No. But it is airing in theaters in the US last week and this week, Canada soon, and possibly other countries. So random people that are avoiding the camrip will have a chance to see the film over the next month or so. |
| If only Homura accepted Madoka's invitation to join her for eternity in Magical Girl Heaven she would have had genuine peace like Sayaka, Nagisa and the others did. Too bad Homura was thinking like a desperate love-stricken psycho. She turned down an opportunity to be eternally together with the one she loves in favor for more pain and suffering not just for her but for Madoka as well. In a nutshell; her choice was really stupid. |
Janethan23Dec 13, 2013 12:50 AM
| "Manga readers are annoying, all they do is complain or spoil the anime we discuss in an anime forum. They should really do their whining at manga forums. USERS ON MY IGNORED LIST: RayReynolds - SSL443 - Dr4kon - Nerdanimefan1992 - ToTheMountains - Fiveskies To add users to the Ignore list: (1) Go to Account settings (2) Click Forum tab and toggle down (3) Type or paste user name on entry box (4) Click Add and you're done. Problem solved, you'll never have to see someone trolling ever again because their post will be closed/collapsed. |
Valentinetwin said: Janethan23 said: You have to consider the fact that everything here started because of Kyuubey's plan. Homura did what she felt was appropriate to protect Madoka. If Homura chose to let herself be taken away by Madoka and Kyuubey was left alone, who knows what bunny cat would do next. He did admit to his goal of ultimately controlling the Law of Cycles after all. Not necessarily, first of all Incubators admitted that they cannot undo a wish especially of this magnitude. Second is the fact that there are clues or hints that Homura might have planned most of this and she was using Kyubey. Homura knows too well how curious Incubators are and she aroused that curiosity in ep12 by telling him in detail how it is possible and making Kyubey come with a theoretical hypothesis in which Homura insisted "It's real". In turn Kyubey's interest has been reinforced when he had no explanation why Soul Gems shatter and disappear when it's too sullied. Plus the idea of collecting emotional energy through "witches" concept is too big a chance for incubators to ignore. Homura knew how much incubators are all about entropy and they would pursue if it meant a more productive collection. It is unclear how Homura died and ended up being put into a barrier by Kyubey. It may be explained when the 2nd season is made (hopefully). One thing is certain and that is very clear: Madoka was really aware about Kyubey's "experiment" which is why she made precautions of enlisting the help of Sayaka and Nagisa before she entered the barrier/labyrinth. Madoka isn't that alone if you think about it if she needed help. She may look by her lonesome but if step back and look at the big picture she actually has an army of Magical Girls that maybe in the hundreds of thousands or maybe millions. Why I say that? When she showed up to take Homura she was accompanied by 2 magical girls: Sayaka and Nagisa. If she can be escorted by 2 magical girls do you think that other magical girls she saved through eternity can do the same when called upon? OMFG That would be damn awesome if that ever happened. BTW Madoka is omnipotent having all knowledge so for her to be so calm even though everyone is distressed goes to show she already knows how it will turn out. One will argue and make the point if that is true then Homura's plan never would have succeeded. There's an easy answer for that. Madoka loves and trust Homura wholeheartedly and she never gave any thought that she would betray her. How many times you guys heard or even seen situations when people with loved won't acknowledge their crimes? It happens. No matter how true even when we see it with our own eyes or even when it's done to us... we give them the benefit of the doubt. The most painful and unexpected betrayals are from those we are closest too. |
| "Manga readers are annoying, all they do is complain or spoil the anime we discuss in an anime forum. They should really do their whining at manga forums. USERS ON MY IGNORED LIST: RayReynolds - SSL443 - Dr4kon - Nerdanimefan1992 - ToTheMountains - Fiveskies To add users to the Ignore list: (1) Go to Account settings (2) Click Forum tab and toggle down (3) Type or paste user name on entry box (4) Click Add and you're done. Problem solved, you'll never have to see someone trolling ever again because their post will be closed/collapsed. |
| Oh my... It's weird but I just can't believe I watched that. I mean I really didn't expect it would be like that... |
| I expected something like that from the ending, but not on that scale.. lol I seriously was confused about how I felt when I left the theater :/ So what exactly happened when Madoka was about to turn back into god form and Homura stopped her? There was this weird creepy sound effect when Homura stopped her.. did she alter her memories or something? and yeah that scene after the credits was really strange |
jwu321 said: I expected something like that from the ending, but not on that scale.. lol I seriously was confused about how I felt when I left the theater :/ So what exactly happened when Madoka was about to turn back into god form and Homura stopped her? There was this weird creepy sound effect when Homura stopped her.. did she alter her memories or something? and yeah that scene after the credits was really strange The scene after the credits tie directly to the Luminous OP from the 1st and 2nd movies. Remember Homura and Madoka sitting on white chairs in that field of white flowers while leaning on each other? Here, the hill and the moon have been split in half, and Homura is leaning on air, where Madoka should have been. She hears some rustling sounds, and is really happy for a second, turning around, with a glimmer of hope that it's Madoka. Of course, it turns out to be Kyubei so she punishes him. At the end, she falls into the abyss besides the hill, maybe because she realizes Madoka will never be there to lean back with the path she has taken. As for the creepy sound, just interpret it however you want. |
| Ah I see! I didn't watch the previous two movies since I saw that they were like recaps of the episodes. I should check it out. So actually Madoka still has her powers but doesn't know that she has them..? |
jwu321 said: Ah I see! I didn't watch the previous two movies since I saw that they were like recaps of the episodes. I should check it out. So actually Madoka still has her powers but doesn't know that she has them..? Basically. The part of the Law of Cycles that was Madoka was stripped away, but she still is connected to that power. It's just being suppressed by Homura. |
| Having read through a lot of the discussions about this film on myanimelist and other forums, I think we can all agree that, whether or not you liked the film's ending, it has generated some fascinating analysis, debates, and theorizing. Its been a while since I've seen an anime spark such intelligent debate amongst its fanbase. |
| Yeah the ending wasn't what I expected and I felt really strange about it, but I can't deny the fact that this was one of the most well made movies I've seen in a while |
FierceAlchemist said: jwu321 said: Ah I see! I didn't watch the previous two movies since I saw that they were like recaps of the episodes. I should check it out. So actually Madoka still has her powers but doesn't know that she has them..? Basically. The part of the Law of Cycles that was Madoka was stripped away, but she still is connected to that power. It's just being suppressed by Homura. So they both are connected to the power? O.o |
jwu321 said: FierceAlchemist said: jwu321 said: Ah I see! I didn't watch the previous two movies since I saw that they were like recaps of the episodes. I should check it out. So actually Madoka still has her powers but doesn't know that she has them..? Basically. The part of the Law of Cycles that was Madoka was stripped away, but she still is connected to that power. It's just being suppressed by Homura. So they both are connected to the power? O.o Think of it this way. In Homura's new universe we have: 1. Madoka Kaname the human being 2. The Law of Cycles continuing its mission of killing witches before they're born but without any goddess/human elements. More like a force of the universe a la gravity. (this is just a theory because it wasn't explicitly shown how things work in Homura's world, but it's hinted at) These two things used to be combined together, but Homura split them apart. However, Madoka still has some of her connection to the Law of Cycles and will probably become Ultimate Madoka again when she realizes what Homura has done. |
| Ah thanks for clearing that up for me! :D It makes much more sense now lol Do you know if they will have a 4th movie? Because the way they set it up definitely calls for a 4th one xD |
jwu321 said: Ah thanks for clearing that up for me! :D It makes much more sense now lol Do you know if they will have a 4th movie? Because the way they set it up definitely calls for a 4th one xD There is nothing official right now, but the whole point of Rebellion was to leave it open enough so they could make more Madoka. So I'm 99% certain we'll be getting something new. Whether that's a movie or a show, i don't know. |
| Here's a random scenario I thought up to play around with the Kyubei barrier idea and take it a bit further. Let's say that Homura accepts Madoka's salvation and they all go off. Even though Kyubei wasn't able to observe the Law of Cycle in action, they were able to prove that it indeed exists, and that their barrier was effective. The logical next step would be to trap another magical girl inside a new barrier and see what happens. Would she be permanently cut off from the Law of Cycles as she cannot invite Madoka inside? Could Kyubei just turn her into a witch trapped inside its own soul gem and then use it as a permanent energy source? If this works they'd have a new energy source that far surpasses the witch system of the original. Imagine hundred of thousands of magical girls, permanently trapped inside their own labyrinths, being tormented for eternity, while Kyubei harvests them for their energy and contract more and more magical girls to add them to their power matrix. Eventually Madoka will be forced to act, and possibly revealing herself in the process. Even if that didn't work, they'd keep trying. The fact that they set up a system that can even observe an un-observable concept is already credit to their ingenuity. Anyways, just something I think Kyubei would do. Maybe the show will address this issue in more detail in movie 4. |
EsclairDec 14, 2013 12:18 AM
Esclair said: Here's a random scenario I thought up to play around with the Kyubei barrier idea and take it a bit further. Let's say that Homura accepts Madoka's salvation and they all go off. Even though Kyubei wasn't able to observe the Law of Cycle in action, they were able to prove that it indeed exists, and that their barrier was effective. The logical next step would be to trap another magical girl inside a new barrier and see what happens. Would she be permanently cut off from the Law of Cycles as she cannot invite Madoka inside? Could Kyubei just turn her into a witch trapped inside its own soul gem and then use it as a permanent energy source? If this works they'd have a new energy source that far surpasses the witch system of the original. Imagine hundred of thousands of magical girls, permanently trapped inside their own labyrinths, being tormented for eternity, while Kyubei harvests them for their energy and contract more and more magical girls to add them to their power matrix. Eventually Madoka will be forced to act, and possibly revealing herself in the process. Even if that didn't work, they'd keep trying. The fact that they set up a system that can even observe an un-observable concept is already credit to their ingenuity. Anyways, just something I think Kyubei would do. Maybe the show will address this issue in more detail in movie 4. That's a good point. One of the big reasons for Homura to change the universe is to protect Madoka from the incubators. However, do we actually know that Homura's soul gem was giving off energy? I don't think Kyubey ever mentioned that they were getting energy from Homura. It was all just a trap to get Madoka. So I don't think just the act of the magical girl in question making an ideal world in her soul gem creates energy. However, I could see Kyubey allowing himself to be drawn into that world and letting the magical girl live her ideal life for a while before revealing the truth to her. Then the girl would become a witch inside her own soul gem and a giant burst of energy would be created. Way to make Kyubey even more despicable. In this system he'd have thousands of these soul gems giving him witch energy with no way to save the girls inside or even mercy kill their witches. |
FierceAlchemist said: Esclair said: Here's a random scenario I thought up to play around with the Kyubei barrier idea and take it a bit further. Let's say that Homura accepts Madoka's salvation and they all go off. Even though Kyubei wasn't able to observe the Law of Cycle in action, they were able to prove that it indeed exists, and that their barrier was effective. The logical next step would be to trap another magical girl inside a new barrier and see what happens. Would she be permanently cut off from the Law of Cycles as she cannot invite Madoka inside? Could Kyubei just turn her into a witch trapped inside its own soul gem and then use it as a permanent energy source? If this works they'd have a new energy source that far surpasses the witch system of the original. Imagine hundred of thousands of magical girls, permanently trapped inside their own labyrinths, being tormented for eternity, while Kyubei harvests them for their energy and contract more and more magical girls to add them to their power matrix. Eventually Madoka will be forced to act, and possibly revealing herself in the process. Even if that didn't work, they'd keep trying. The fact that they set up a system that can even observe an un-observable concept is already credit to their ingenuity. Anyways, just something I think Kyubei would do. Maybe the show will address this issue in more detail in movie 4. That's a good point. One of the big reasons for Homura to change the universe is to protect Madoka from the incubators. However, do we actually know that Homura's soul gem was giving off energy? I don't think Kyubey ever mentioned that they were getting energy from Homura. It was all just a trap to get Madoka. So I don't think just the act of the magical girl in question making an ideal world in her soul gem creates energy. However, I could see Kyubey allowing himself to be drawn into that world and letting the magical girl live her ideal life for a while before revealing the truth to her. Then the girl would become a witch inside her own soul gem and a giant burst of energy would be created. Way to make Kyubey even more despicable. In this system he'd have thousands of these soul gems giving him witch energy with no way to save the girls inside or even mercy kill their witches. No, she has to turn Witch. They were actively keeping her from turning witch, there's a scene right after Homura intentionally increases her curses and it shows the soul gem inside some kind of contraption that looks like it was cleansing it. From the series, its suggested that Kyubei gains energy from both when a magical girl turns into a witch, and the soul gem itself (he eats it the same way he eats wraith cubes). Soul gems seem to get more tainted naturally, it seems that in the movie Kyubei was only keeping Homura's soul gem cleansed so they can keep the balance in her dream world to observe Madoka. So they just need to take away the cleansing mechanism and let the girl turn into a witch inside the barrier, then harvest the grief seed afterwards. Remember that they can choose which direction energy goes in or goes out, so it should be possible for them to pull energy from within the barrier while preventing Madokami from entering. |
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