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Dec 16, 2012 3:03 PM
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Takuan_Soho said:
It isn't sex he wants, he wants to humiliate people.
You do know that rape is more about power and humiliation than sex, don't you?
"Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain"
Friedrich Schiller
Dec 16, 2012 3:06 PM

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Ajunky said:
Takuan_Soho said:
It isn't sex he wants, he wants to humiliate people.
You do know that rape is more about power and humiliation than sex, don't you?
So a rapist doesnt care about sex?What is it?An extra bonus?
Dec 16, 2012 3:07 PM
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ssjokg said:
Ajunky said:
Takuan_Soho said:
It isn't sex he wants, he wants to humiliate people.
You do know that rape is more about power and humiliation than sex, don't you?
So a rapist doesnt care about sex?What is it?An extra bonus?
Actually yeah, the psychology of rape is like that.
"Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain"
Friedrich Schiller
Dec 16, 2012 3:08 PM

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Ajunky said:
Takuan_Soho said:
It isn't sex he wants, he wants to humiliate people.
You do know that rape is more about power and humiliation than sex, don't you?


thanks dr phil you are very enlightening

Dec 16, 2012 3:09 PM
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Zeally said:
Ajunky said:
Takuan_Soho said:
It isn't sex he wants, he wants to humiliate people.
You do know that rape is more about power and humiliation than sex, don't you?
thanks dr phil you are very enlightening
Glad to be of help.
"Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain"
Friedrich Schiller
Dec 16, 2012 3:16 PM
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my gosh that was so some straight up hentai with all the licking and the touching it creeped me out
Y DO THEY END IT LIKE THAT DOE
Dec 16, 2012 3:25 PM
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Ajunky said:
ssjokg said:
Ajunky said:
Takuan_Soho said:
It isn't sex he wants, he wants to humiliate people.
You do know that rape is more about power and humiliation than sex, don't you?
So a rapist doesnt care about sex?What is it?An extra bonus?
Actually yeah, the psychology of rape is like that.


I would be hesitant in slapping such a simplistic rationalization on something as serious as rape.

That expression is one of those truisms that really isn't true; it assumes that every rapist is a rational actor and they are completely conscious of their actions. In many cases (particularly when the rapist is mentally handicapped) this isn't true. Rape, like every other human action is a far more complex phenomenon, and little headway is going to be made to understand how to end it if we engage is such self-satisfying trivial explanations.

That said, do I doubt that Sugou could rape Asuna? No. All I said was that when I read the novel he seemed far more interested in sadism than sex. After all this is a man who has programmed NPC dolls to show humiliation on their faces. If there are degrees of evilness, Suguo would be even worse than a rapist. Most rapists don't care about destroying the person they are raping (that they end up doing it is something they don't even think about), for Sugou such destruction IS his goal, the sex is merely a means to achieve it.
Dec 16, 2012 3:53 PM

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This anime went way downhill after the SAO game. The whole fairy shit is annoying.
Mr. Wonsworth, you may NOT eat my scones!
Dec 16, 2012 4:00 PM
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Takuan_Soho said:
That expression is one of those truisms that really isn't true; it assumes that every rapist is a rational actor and they are completely conscious of their actions. In many cases (particularly when the rapist is mentally handicapped) this isn't true. Rape, like every other human action is a far more complex phenomenon, and little headway is going to be made to understand how to end it if we engage is such self-satisfying trivial explanations.

That said, do I doubt that Sugou could rape Asuna? No. All I said was that when I read the novel he seemed far more interested in sadism than sex. After all this is a man who has programmed NPC dolls to show humiliation on their faces. If there are degrees of evilness, Suguo would be even worse than a rapist. Most rapists don't care about destroying the person they are raping (that they end up doing it is something they don't even think about), for Sugou such destruction IS his goal, the sex is merely a means to achieve it.
Hmm... it doesn't really assume rationality. Most rapist don't really understand why they do it, or their own needs. The mayority of rapists (if not all) have a serious inferiority complex (or superiority, which still accounts to the same) resulting in the attempts to overpower others, through sex in their case. Is it simplistic? I don't know about that, individuality does come into every case, but I do not hesitate to believe that the underlying motivator is their self-esteem, in almost every case.

So about the anime, I haven't read the novels so I feel at a disadvantage talking about Sugou, but it came to me that he seeks possession, not destruction. Like a selfish kid that wants what he knows he can't have. He'll destroy Asuna's mind if he must, but the idea is to make her his belonging. He's a saddist all right, but I don't think it goes along well with destruction... destruction is the end, twisting instead allows for continuous pleasure.
"Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain"
Friedrich Schiller
Dec 16, 2012 4:09 PM

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Fucking Great Episode. It had everything that I expected from the payoff of this otherwise just average arc(since I hold SAO arc as something way better than this):

- A rapist getting owned in a gruesome fashion.
- Kayaba being his usual fabulous crazy self.
- The set-up for the upcoming Season Two arcs.

Now all I can hope for is that the last episode, 25, will be just as great and will perfectly set up upcoming seasons.

5/5
Dec 16, 2012 4:22 PM

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See thats how you beat a game like a boss.

Become bros with the game creator.
Get admin priviledges.
??????
SAVE THE WORLD
SCREW OVER CORPORATE PLOTS
GET ALL DEM BITCHES
PROFIT!!!
Dec 16, 2012 4:23 PM
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Ajunky said:
Hmm... it doesn't really assume rationality. Most rapist don't really understand why they do it, or their own needs. The mayority of rapists (if not all) have a serious inferiority complex (or superiority, which still accounts to the same) resulting in the attempts to overpower others, through sex in their case. Is it simplistic? I don't know about that, individuality does come into every case, but I do not hesitate to believe that the underlying motivator is their self-esteem, in almost every case.

So about the anime, I haven't read the novels so I feel at a disadvantage talking about Sugou, but it came to me that he seeks possession, not destruction. Like a selfish kid that wants what he knows he can't have. He'll destroy Asuna's mind if he must, but the idea is to make her his belonging. He's a saddist all right, but I don't think it goes along well with destruction... destruction is the end, twisting instead allows for continuous pleasure.


The desire to apply power does require consciousness because it is a social drive requiring awareness of distinctions between perpetrator and victim, sex doesn't in that it is a biological drive. We all have the sex drive, it is to a certain extent natural since animals also possesses it (they also rape, chimps and dolphins being two good examples). Should point out here that just because it is natural doesn't justify it. The point of being human is to control such impulses. But as with murder, some people prove to be simply incapable of such control.

But I really can't argue about the animation. As I pointed out above, A-1 has really gone out of their way to over-sexualize situations where they can. Someone posted the actual text from the novel the page before which I think makes it clear that the animation is much more about sex. That said, you are right that Sugou wants to possess Asuna, but he wants to possess her soul, not just her body. He wants to manipulate her mind so that she wants him. As I said if there are degrees of evilness he is pretty close to the ultimate in evil. His goal is virtual murder, not something as crude as Kayaba's death game (Kayaba really didn't care who lived or died), but the actual murder of one's personality, one's soul, while leaving a controlled puppet inhabiting the body.
Dec 16, 2012 4:28 PM

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Ajunky said:
Takuan_Soho said:
That expression is one of those truisms that really isn't true; it assumes that every rapist is a rational actor and they are completely conscious of their actions. In many cases (particularly when the rapist is mentally handicapped) this isn't true. Rape, like every other human action is a far more complex phenomenon, and little headway is going to be made to understand how to end it if we engage is such self-satisfying trivial explanations.

That said, do I doubt that Sugou could rape Asuna? No. All I said was that when I read the novel he seemed far more interested in sadism than sex. After all this is a man who has programmed NPC dolls to show humiliation on their faces. If there are degrees of evilness, Suguo would be even worse than a rapist. Most rapists don't care about destroying the person they are raping (that they end up doing it is something they don't even think about), for Sugou such destruction IS his goal, the sex is merely a means to achieve it.
Hmm... it doesn't really assume rationality. Most rapist don't really understand why they do it, or their own needs. The mayority of rapists (if not all) have a serious inferiority complex (or superiority, which still accounts to the same) resulting in the attempts to overpower others, through sex in their case. Is it simplistic? I don't know about that, individuality does come into every case, but I do not hesitate to believe that the underlying motivator is their self-esteem, in almost every case.

So about the anime, I haven't read the novels so I feel at a disadvantage talking about Sugou, but it came to me that he seeks possession, not destruction. Like a selfish kid that wants what he knows he can't have. He'll destroy Asuna's mind if he must, but the idea is to make her his belonging. He's a saddist all right, but I don't think it goes along well with destruction... destruction is the end, twisting instead allows for continuous pleasure.


Well obviously Sugou has the biggest inferiority complex ever.

I mean look at him

-Has to bully a friggin teenager
-Claims he's the god of a video game
-Design's himself as a kingly looking pretty man
-Design's his henchman to look like a bunch of blobs so they can look that much inferior to him
-Has to molest a girl whose not only in a coma, but only inside a video game too
-Has to mind control a girl to get what he wants.

Sugou is obviously a very insecure individual. He does what he does so that he can feel his existence has some greater meaning than it really does.


BTW does anyone think Kirito's doing a bit much by torturing Sugou. I mean with all the heroic music playing and such you would think he would be doing something heroic...I thought he was suppose to be like the better man, but torturing someone is hardly heroic or anything like that. Just seems to serve to make the character seem more self-centered than he already is.
hyperknees91Dec 16, 2012 4:38 PM
Dec 16, 2012 4:53 PM
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Takuan_Soho said:
The desire to apply power does require consciousness because it is a social drive requiring awareness of distinctions between perpetrator and victim, sex doesn't in that it is a biological drive. We all have the sex drive, it is to a certain extent natural since animals also possesses it (they also rape, chimps and dolphins being two good examples)
Curiously enough, the examples you're naming are relatively intelligent animals with highly developed societies.

There's actually a very heated argument about the interpretation of the observed behaviour, so I don't really want to go there. I'll just leave it with this cheeky reply. XD
"Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain"
Friedrich Schiller
Dec 16, 2012 4:55 PM
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hyperknees91 said:
BTW does anyone think Kirito's doing a bit much by torturing Sugou. I mean with all the heroic music playing and such you would think he would be doing something heroic...I thought he was suppose to be like the better man, but torturing someone is hardly heroic or anything like that. Just seems to serve to make the character seem more self-centered than he already is.


I think that was discussed a couple of pages before. This is a fictional cathartic scene where the hero beats the melodramatic villain. It is roughly morally equivalent to when Gohan is beating up Cell.

But if you want to take it seriously. Kirito knows that he isn't actually harming Sugou. He is causing mental torment, not actual bodily damage, only pain equivalent to
, so after what he experienced watching Sugou humiliate his loved one, it was the least he could do.

As for being the "better" man. I think if you can stand around, watch someone nearly rape the woman you love, and still want to be the "better" man, you aren't really a man.
Takuan_SohoDec 16, 2012 5:05 PM
Dec 16, 2012 4:57 PM
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I just really want something good, like Spice and Wolf, to happen in the fantasy genre again.
not.
this.
kind.
of.
(rape, bdsm, incest, lolicon, tentacles)fanservice filled shit.
Dec 16, 2012 4:59 PM
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Ajunky said:
Curiously enough, the examples you're naming are relatively intelligent animals with highly developed societies.

There's actually a very heated argument about the interpretation of the observed behaviour, so I don't really want to go there. I'll just leave it with this cheeky reply. XD


Yes, there is heated argument, which is why I said that you can't put simplistic labels on it.

As for animals, ducks and geese also do it, so how far down the the social pyramid do you want to go?
Dec 16, 2012 5:15 PM

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Fai said:
Fucking Great Episode. It had everything that I expected from the payoff of this otherwise just average arc(since I hold SAO arc as something way better than this):

- A rapist getting owned in a gruesome fashion.
- Kayaba being his usual fabulous crazy self.
- The set-up for the upcoming Season Two arcs.

Now all I can hope for is that the last episode, 25, will be just as great and will perfectly set up upcoming seasons.

5/5


no doubt about it :)
Dec 16, 2012 5:19 PM
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hyperknees91 said:
BTW does anyone think Kirito's doing a bit much by torturing Sugou. I mean with all the heroic music playing and such you would think he would be doing something heroic...I thought he was suppose to be like the better man, but torturing someone is hardly heroic or anything like that. Just seems to serve to make the character seem more self-centered than he already is.
Yeah, the choice of music there didn't sit well with me either.

Kirito embracing the anger is understandable... But a darker theme is needed for that.
Takuan_Soho said:
Yes, there is heated argument, which is why I said that you can't put simplistic labels on it.

As for animals, ducks and geese also do it, so how far down the the social pyramid do you want to go?
Well, as I said, that was just a cheeky reply. Though ducks/geese might be smarter than you give them credit for, they are also highly social, even if they are less developed than chimps and dolphins...
"Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain"
Friedrich Schiller
Dec 16, 2012 5:26 PM

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I think that was discussed a couple of pages before. This is a fictional cathartic scene where the hero beats the melodramatic villain. It is roughly morally equivalent to when Gohan is beating up Cell.

But if you want to take it seriously. Kirito knows that he isn't actually harming Sugou. He is causing mental torment, not actual bodily damage, only pain equivalent to
, so after what he experienced watching Sugou humiliate his loved one, it was the least he could do.

As for being the "better" man. I think if you can stand around, watch someone nearly rape the woman you love, and still want to be the "better" man, you aren't really a man.


Well when Gohan was torturing cell and trying to make him suffer even the dbz characters got wierded out and thought he was going too far.

And true, I just think the heroic music makes it a bit jarring is all.
Dec 16, 2012 5:27 PM

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HiddenVoice said:
Prediction for next episode:

Kirito falls off his bike and dies.


omfg, hahaha.

Sooooooo, can I just say that this ep was HOT ? and disturbing, omg. Sugou you bastard.

But this episode was almost like the creators were thinking, "hey, we're running out of time, any ending will do." And so SAO creator pops up, saves the day, suddenly Kirito gains fucking control out of nowhere, defeats Sugou just like that, and what the hell.

Again, this anime had SO much potential. The first half was just fabulous. And then came the second half... where everything began to fall apart. Sigh...
Dec 16, 2012 5:47 PM

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hyakushikimaru said:

I mean supernatural intervention is fine once in a while, but in this anime they do it way too much. Jut like when Kirito and Asuna died in SAO, now Heathcliffe magically appears to revive Kirito? Practically makes Kirito worthless.

There's nothing supernatural about either of those cases.
Dec 16, 2012 5:48 PM

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lillietta said:
im so sad becouse next week will be the last episode of a awsome anime. this is the best anime i have seen since 2003 ;(


I'm guessing that you don't watch much.
Dec 16, 2012 6:18 PM
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This is the best anime series ever created, everything else out there is mediocre. SAO got it right and gave the public what it's been longing for, that's of course why it is so popular. I hope this anime gets another season maybe 2 years from now. Really good episode and I can't wait to see what happens between Asuna and the sister in the final episode!
Dec 16, 2012 6:24 PM

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Now I wonder, how can Sugou still get up and face Kazuto with that much damage done to him and on a level 0 pain absorber.
The episode was fine but they could have done better, they should have put in more Asuna and Kirito moments in there.
—Actually, nevermind.
Dec 16, 2012 6:37 PM
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Ajunky said:
Well, as I said, that was just a cheeky reply. Though ducks/geese might be smarter than you give them credit for, they are also highly social, even if they are less developed than chimps and dolphins...


That was my bad, my reply came off far snarkier than I meant it. My apologies. Should have responded with a better thought out response.

Social and intelligence really isn't the issue here, animals are plenty smart. Ants are extremely social. But at the same time it has been shown that a lot of their behavior is instinctual. Birds in particularly are extremely suspect to manipulation based upon certain triggers (color in particular, size in other situations as the cuckoo bird taking advantage shows). What animals haven't shown yet is the ability to self-reflect, to be able to understand an instinctual urge and to over-ride it.

The idea of power requires some degree of self-reflection. The perpetrator has to know that he is exerting power over the victim, otherwise you would be saying something like "the Lion has power over the Antelope". Power isn't strength, it is the intelligent application of strength.
Dec 16, 2012 7:01 PM

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Wow, a amazingly awesome grate episode!! >:'D
I was hoping the Kirito/Asuna reunion would have been more dramatic and epic, but it was still nice all the same. :'3

Would have been the perfect ending, but 1 more episode! I can't wait to see how they end it. :O
:)
💕
Dec 16, 2012 7:47 PM

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lillietta said:
im so sad becouse next week will be the last episode of a awsome anime. this is the best anime i have seen since 2003 ;(


What have you been watching for the past 9 years?
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Dec 16, 2012 7:57 PM

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Yeah I still love this.
Dec 16, 2012 9:15 PM

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EstelleBright said:


Yeah I still love this.


top highlight of the episode imo

Dec 16, 2012 9:31 PM
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Takuan_Soho said:
Ajunky said:
Well, as I said, that was just a cheeky reply. Though ducks/geese might be smarter than you give them credit for, they are also highly social, even if they are less developed than chimps and dolphins...

That was my bad, my reply came off far snarkier than I meant it. My apologies. Should have responded with a better thought out response.

Social and intelligence really isn't the issue here, animals are plenty smart. Ants are extremely social. But at the same time it has been shown that a lot of their behavior is instinctual. Birds in particularly are extremely suspect to manipulation based upon certain triggers (color in particular, size in other situations as the cuckoo bird taking advantage shows). What animals haven't shown yet is the ability to self-reflect, to be able to understand an instinctual urge and to over-ride it.

The idea of power requires some degree of self-reflection. The perpetrator has to know that he is exerting power over the victim, otherwise you would be saying something like "the Lion has power over the Antelope". Power isn't strength, it is the intelligent application of strength.
Dunno if you'll read this, but here we go.

Yeah, the idea of power requires self-reflection.

We somehow drifted into rape in animals in general, where the self-reflection is a vague issue...

It isn't in humans, obviously. Our brain structure puts the issue in clearer place. Self reflection/awareness creates our self esteem by making us compare ourselves to others, and it gives us an understanding of our social standing. We have a need to procreate like any animal, but our social need arguably takes precedence (protection over reproduction). Furthermore, I can't think of a rapist (human) that isn't aware of the power exerted upon the victim, even if it's just as a feeling. So being aware of it, I believe that even at a basic level the power would be more attractive than the prospective for reproduction. Sex is just a plus this way.
"Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain"
Friedrich Schiller
Dec 16, 2012 10:12 PM
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Ajunky said:
I can't think of a rapist (human) that isn't aware of the power exerted upon the victim, even if it's just as a feeling. So being aware of it, I believe that even at a basic level the power would be more attractive than the prospective for reproduction. Sex is just a plus this way.


Of course I would read and respond, I love discussion, especially with someone who answers seriously :-)

The response is that the situation is not a dichotomy, people don't rape because they want to reproduce, but rather they have a biological urge to have sex. What happens with many, either because they are mentally retarded, or they lack empathy towards for the victim. They are not trying to impose power over the person, they honestly could care less about the person, their reaction is purely selfish. That wants of the other person is irrelevant. This is why in many cases the rapist only uses force to the extent that they need to have sex, if this was about power, this would not be the case.

Now of course in plenty of cases it is about power. The perpetrator wants to impose his will on the victim. Not denying that this happens. But this not the only explanation, and I doubt it is true in the majority of the cases. My point above wasn't that such things don't exist, but rather that the idea that is only about power is wrong. It is far more complex than that.

The idea that sex is about power is a comforting fantasy, it makes blame easy and indisputable, but it isn't based on science. A great deal of evidence points to other reasons. The problem is that many people think that other causes mitigates the blame for an individual. But I do not feel this way. Nothing justifies rape. Don't care why it happens, it shouldn't end of story. I don't need a justification to say that it is wrong, the whole issue of "why" is only interesting to the extent that it can teach us how to end the possibility of rape.
Dec 16, 2012 10:20 PM

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Sugou is without a doubt one of the most psychopathic villains I've ever seen in an anime.




Dec 16, 2012 10:31 PM

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By far the worst episode I've seen all year.
Dec 16, 2012 11:00 PM
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Well it wasn't that bad. But they could have done better without the rape or tentacle scenes............those are disturbing and unnecessary. But really enjoyed Kirito cutting down that bastard in pieces he deserved it......playing with lives and laughing and trying to rape too? Finally he got a taste of his own medicine.

Dec 16, 2012 11:02 PM

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Hmm. It was perfectly adapted for the most part. Just a bit more dramatized with the sexual harassment there.

Now time for the second fight. And the ownage following it.
Dec 16, 2012 11:24 PM

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Akamitsu said:
Sugou is without a doubt one of the most psychopathic villains I've ever seen in an anime.


With one of the greatest laughs
Dec 16, 2012 11:25 PM
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Takuan_Soho said:
The idea that sex is about power is a comforting fantasy, it makes blame easy and indisputable, but it isn't based on science. A great deal of evidence points to other reasons. The problem is that many people think that other causes mitigates the blame for an individual. But I do not feel this way. Nothing justifies rape. Don't care why it happens, it shouldn't end of story. I don't need a justification to say that it is wrong, the whole issue of "why" is only interesting to the extent that it can teach us how to end the possibility of rape.
I'll respect your opinion, but I don't see it as a comforting fantasy.

I won't say I'm an expert, far from it, my experience comes from a couple weeks a time ago assisting a criminal profiler during a "vocational tryout" (and I learned that it wasn't my thing). Still, this point of view isn't something to comfort victims, or to determine the culpability of perpetrators. It's a base model used as a practical attempt to understand the criminals. Profiling is as much about finding the similarities as well as the differences. Rapists can be classified on several groups but common ground can be found. Power is one, according to one model at least, the one I studied anyway.

As for evidence, there never is something conclusive enough, so it's bound to interpretation.
AjunkyDec 16, 2012 11:28 PM
"Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain"
Friedrich Schiller
Dec 17, 2012 1:19 AM

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Gonna give credit to Koyasu Takehito for doing great job voicing that sick bastard Sugou.
Really weird to hear his voice after watching Bakuman lol.

Bonus point when he tried to summon Excalibur because Koyasu also voiced the dreaded Excaliber in Soul Eater. XD

So Kirito have the the ultimate cheat in his disposal again. That seed thing is interesting. Man can't resist to read the novel after this.

Next ep, round two!
Dec 17, 2012 1:43 AM
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This was actually not that atrocious of an episode.
Dec 17, 2012 2:14 AM
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Zeally said:
EstelleBright said:


Yeah I still love this.


top highlight of the episode imo

oh this is golden!
Dec 17, 2012 4:04 AM

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Akamitsu said:
Sugou is without a doubt one of the most psychopathic villains I've ever seen in an anime.


Agreed haha he was up there with a few but just his personality sends shivers down ur spine.
Dec 17, 2012 4:33 AM

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Only & only that Asuna scene will raise the BD sales.
Dec 17, 2012 6:53 AM

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I'm glad that Kirito kicked Sugou's ass, but Kirito completely forgot about the other 300 (IIRC) SOA people, and he forgot to re-enable the pain limiter.
And why didn't he go to the hospital quicker, Sugou got influenced in some way IRL since a pain limiter value under 3 (or 4) would do something with your real body. But that doesn't mean he's dead.
He might still decide to go and rape Asuna IRL, which I kind of suspect.
I almost never read discussions after I made my post, if you want to reply PM me or post on my profile page.
Dec 17, 2012 7:06 AM

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MasterMeNL said:
I'm glad that Kirito kicked Sugou's ass, but Kirito completely forgot about the other 300 (IIRC) SOA people, and he forgot to re-enable the pain limiter.

The way I see it - Kirito logged out EVERYONE and terminated login servers.
Dec 17, 2012 7:21 AM

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MasterMeNL said:
I'm glad that Kirito kicked Sugou's ass, but Kirito completely forgot about the other 300 (IIRC) SOA people, and he forgot to re-enable the pain limiter.
And why didn't he go to the hospital quicker, Sugou got influenced in some way IRL since a pain limiter value under 3 (or 4) would do something with your real body. But that doesn't mean he's dead.
He might still decide to go and rape Asuna IRL, which I kind of suspect.

Better leave the 300 that are still in the experiments to the hands of people that know how to log them out safely.The pain limiter was off only in the space Sugou created.

I dont think he wasted that much time saying to Suguha that all is well.
Dec 17, 2012 7:49 AM

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Am I the only one truly concerned about Kayaba Akihiko being portrayed so positive, almost as if he's a good character? I mean, sure thing he's way more likable and relaxed than Sugou, but just because he had a "cooler reason" for what he did and didn't act pathetic or psychotic doesn't make him much less of a criminal. In the end he killed around 4000 people and probably psychologically scared a few thousand more for life. I just think it's kinda wrong, no matter what year the novel had been written in..
(Also, thank GOD the novels didn't include that almost-rape scene, cuz I wuold've lost a hell lot of respect for the creator)
All in all (being generally disappointed in this half of the show) it was a lame ending to a lame storyline. I really wished they'd stuck more to SAO even if it's not like that in the novel :(
ALO really wasn't impressing at all..
Dec 17, 2012 8:16 AM
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Oct 2012
683
Iro-sama said:
Am I the only one truly concerned about Kayaba Akihiko being portrayed so positive, almost as if he's a good character? I mean, sure thing he's way more likable and relaxed than Sugou, but just because he had a "cooler reason" for what he did and didn't act pathetic or psychotic doesn't make him much less of a criminal. In the end he killed around 4000 people and probably psychologically scared a few thousand more for life. I just think it's kinda wrong, no matter what year the novel had been written in..
(Also, thank GOD the novels didn't include that almost-rape scene, cuz I wuold've lost a hell lot of respect for the creator)
All in all (being generally disappointed in this half of the show) it was a lame ending to a lame storyline. I really wished they'd stuck more to SAO even if it's not like that in the novel :(
ALO really wasn't impressing at all..


Why? Accelerator also killed a lot of humans and is portrayed positively from time to time. Not every villain has to be an evil asshole, Kayaba didn't do what he did just to be good, he did it because he wanted a favor from Kirito.
Dec 17, 2012 10:51 AM

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Sep 2012
1062
Iro-sama said:
Am I the only one truly concerned about Kayaba Akihiko being portrayed so positive, almost as if he's a good character? I mean, sure thing he's way more likable and relaxed than Sugou, but just because he had a "cooler reason" for what he did and didn't act pathetic or psychotic doesn't make him much less of a criminal. In the end he killed around 4000 people and probably psychologically scared a few thousand more for life. I just think it's kinda wrong, no matter what year the novel had been written in..
(Also, thank GOD the novels didn't include that almost-rape scene, cuz I wuold've lost a hell lot of respect for the creator)
All in all (being generally disappointed in this half of the show) it was a lame ending to a lame storyline. I really wished they'd stuck more to SAO even if it's not like that in the novel :(
ALO really wasn't impressing at all..


I also had a problem with it. No, not every villain has to be totally evil, but Kirito talks about him in this episode like he was a great man. Really, he was a bad person, killing thousands of people for his own selfish purposes. The anime never really emphasizes how bad he actually is, and he never does anything good enough to atone for what he's done, and doesn't really experience any consequences either.

If not for its treatment of Kayaba Akihiko, I would have liked this show a lot more.
Dec 17, 2012 10:52 AM
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Sep 2012
149
Lol, I keep saying this (not that I'm the only one) and I keep gettting ignored : Kirito disconnected EVERYONE from the ALO Server. Even if he "forgot" about those 300, they were still logged out by his actions. Did you not notice when he was in his GM commands it said that it would kick everyone? Everyone means Everyone. He shut down the server, you can't be connected to something that isn't there (metaphorically excluded).

I would also like to apply some basic logic and prior anime events to shooting down the "Sugou is dead" theory.

a) This isn't SAO, dying in game does not (and has been shown to not) kill you IRL. And even if dying did kill you, do you honestly think a narcissist like Sugou would equip his own Amusphere(which is specifically designed to be incapable of killing people, notice the utter lack of unnecessary tech) with a suicide device? Doubtful.

b) When he said that the pain begins to affect your body, he means that the pain sensors in your brain are firing so hard that your brain is treating it as it would any Real Body injury: essentially, it starts sending you into shock, and when you wake up your brain still FEELS the pain, even if you are not physically hurt. It would make no sense for your body to actually get injuries from it. The worst that could happen is heart attack or an aneurysm from stress/pain(which would take undergoing hours at least, but probably days or weeks of intense torture for someone with a halfway healthy heart), or dying from intense shock.

It's pretty obvious using simple logic and basic common medical knowledge that he isn't dead, in a shit ton of pain that could potentially be driving him insane? Sure, but dead? no.

MetaKlonoa said:

I also had a problem with it. No, not every villain has to be totally evil, but Kirito talks about him in this episode like he was a great man. Really, he was a bad person, killing thousands of people for his own selfish purposes.


Well, to be blunt, he IS a great man. Great does not necessarily mean good, in the immortal words of Ollivander "He Who Must Not Be Named did great things. Terrible, yes. But great". Just because he is a villain, doesn't mean that what he did wasn't impressive, and it doesn't detract in any way from his genius. Is he a "good" person? In my opinion no. Is he a genius or, if you will, a great man? Certainly. And yeah, they could have portrayed him a little better to keep the greatness and express the "evil", but that doesn't mean Kirito can't admire him from an objective point of view, the same way people can admire Hitler for being a stunning inspirational orator.
DarthAbysiusDec 17, 2012 10:59 AM
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