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NNick said: I give F/Z 100 out of 10 for not including any stupid Japanese fan service scenes. What are you talking about? F/Z is full of fanservice. |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
ssjokg said: Meanwhile at Sankaku complex : Top 10 Most Disappointing Anime of 2012 So Far 1. Natsuiro Kiseki 2. AKB0048 3. Nisemonogatari 4. Hyouka 5. Accel World 6. New Prince of Tennis 7. Fate/Zero Season 2 8. Aquarion Evol 9. Gundam Seed HD Remaster 10. Haiyore! Nyaruko-san I wonder what kind of standards must someone have to be disappointed by FZ? Not enough naked loli fanservice? I'm disappointed by F/Z. Not because it's bad, but because it isn't even close to being as amazing as the rating/"gossip" suggests. The real question is how could anyone be disappointed by Natsuiro Kiseki? If your expectations were anywhere above zero going into that show, you're doing it wrong. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
BloodRequiem said: NNick said: I give F/Z 100 out of 10 for not including any stupid Japanese fan service scenes. What are you talking about? F/Z is full of fanservice. Agreed. It has "intellectual" fan service. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
BloodRequiem said: Anyways. You know what's even more ironic? According to Hollow Ataraxia, Angra Mainyu isn't All Evils of the World. It's actually... |
Thess said: BloodRequiem said: Anyways. You know what's even more ironic? According to Hollow Ataraxia, Angra Mainyu isn't All Evils of the World. It's actually... The theory of Fundamental Evil?or does he mean that people chose evil after their birth? Because I dont like/believe the theories of Fundamental Evil and Good.Its way to easy to describe humanity like this. |
ssjokg said: Thess said: BloodRequiem said: Anyways. You know what's even more ironic? According to Hollow Ataraxia, Angra Mainyu isn't All Evils of the World. It's actually... The theory of Fundamental Evil?or does he mean that people chose evil after their birth? Because I dont like/believe the theories of Fundamental Evil and Good.Its way to easy to describe humanity like this. It's just evil. Angra Mainyu reflects humanity. That's all. It's explained in HA further. It's All Evils because humans are inherently evil beings. Or at least the humanity since he was born (somehow it really justifies Gilgamesh's wiping them out with their own curse lol. That BS didn't exist in his days). If humanity was inherently good or decent, then Angra would reflect something else. ssjokg said: Meanwhile at Sankaku complex : Top 10 Most Disappointing Anime of 2012 So Far 1. Natsuiro Kiseki 2. AKB0048 3. Nisemonogatari 4. Hyouka 5. Accel World 6. New Prince of Tennis 7. Fate/Zero Season 2 8. Aquarion Evol 9. Gundam Seed HD Remaster 10. Haiyore! Nyaruko-san I wonder what kind of standards must someone have to be disappointed by FZ? Not enough naked loli fanservice? Too much Kiritsugu? He can't carry a series by himself because he has little screen charisma as main character. He'll be mostly recalled as that dude who looks like Spike from Cowboy Bebop. Also the second season has pacing from Hell. The first two episodes were fine, but it declined after. |
ThessJun 18, 2012 8:09 PM
Thess said: ssjokg said: Meanwhile at Sankaku complex : Top 10 Most Disappointing Anime of 2012 So Far 1. Natsuiro Kiseki 2. AKB0048 3. Nisemonogatari 4. Hyouka 5. Accel World 6. New Prince of Tennis 7. Fate/Zero Season 2 8. Aquarion Evol 9. Gundam Seed HD Remaster 10. Haiyore! Nyaruko-san I wonder what kind of standards must someone have to be disappointed by FZ? Not enough naked loli fanservice? Too much Kiritsugu? He can't carry a series by himself because he has little screen charisma as main character. He'll be mostly recalled as that dude who looks like Spike from Cowboy Bebop. Also the second season has pacing from Hell. The first two episodes were fine, but it declined after. So much that it was disappointing? As for Kiritsugu..some people are stupid.With the same reasoning Tokiomi sounds like Aizen so it's even more disappointing(I really read that in a forum).And I never understood why Spike was such a great character.Yes he had some good moments but nothing that great.I believe that Spike is so badass/cool/manly/whatever he is because of the twist in the end just like Kamina(Kamina IS way better than him). As for the pacing the ones that bitch about it are mostly LN readers.I dont know about the japanese but overall I dont feel disappointed at all. |
ssjokg said: So much that it was disappointing? As for Kiritsugu..some people are stupid.With the same reasoning Tokiomi sounds like Aizen so it's even more disappointing(I really read that in a forum).And I never understood why Spike was such a great character.Yes he had some good moments but nothing that great.I believe that Spike is so badass/cool/manly/whatever he is because of the twist in the end just like Kamina(Kamina IS way better than him). As for the pacing the ones that bitch about it are mostly LN readers.I dont know about the japanese but overall I dont feel disappointed at all. That I have to explain what is coming on to non LN readers speak of poor pacing and poor handling of the story. The Angra Mainyu thing, for instance, came out from nowhere in the TV series because they cut all the foreshadowing for no reason. Kiritsugu's overshadowed by Rider, doomed to be 'just there' even if they try to push him up. Rider's the real breakout star of Fate/Zero. That's why Team Rider gets to be in as much promo material aside of Saber (the face of the franchise). |
Thess said: ssjokg said: So much that it was disappointing? As for Kiritsugu..some people are stupid.With the same reasoning Tokiomi sounds like Aizen so it's even more disappointing(I really read that in a forum).And I never understood why Spike was such a great character.Yes he had some good moments but nothing that great.I believe that Spike is so badass/cool/manly/whatever he is because of the twist in the end just like Kamina(Kamina IS way better than him). As for the pacing the ones that bitch about it are mostly LN readers.I dont know about the japanese but overall I dont feel disappointed at all. That I have to explain what is coming on to non LN readers speak of poor pacing and poor handling of the story. The Angra Mainyu thing, for instance, came out from nowhere in the TV series because they cut all the foreshadowing for no reason. Kiritsugu's overshadowed by Rider, doomed to be 'just there' even if they try to push him up. Rider's the real breakout star of Fate/Zero. That's why Team Rider gets to be in as much promo material aside of Saber (the face of the franchise). I thought viewers loved "twists".See Code Geass... So FZ 2 sucks because Rider died?There is something wrong with that.Then again I was here when that ep aired so ok.... |
ssjokg said: Thess said: ssjokg said: So much that it was disappointing? As for Kiritsugu..some people are stupid.With the same reasoning Tokiomi sounds like Aizen so it's even more disappointing(I really read that in a forum).And I never understood why Spike was such a great character.Yes he had some good moments but nothing that great.I believe that Spike is so badass/cool/manly/whatever he is because of the twist in the end just like Kamina(Kamina IS way better than him). As for the pacing the ones that bitch about it are mostly LN readers.I dont know about the japanese but overall I dont feel disappointed at all. That I have to explain what is coming on to non LN readers speak of poor pacing and poor handling of the story. The Angra Mainyu thing, for instance, came out from nowhere in the TV series because they cut all the foreshadowing for no reason. Kiritsugu's overshadowed by Rider, doomed to be 'just there' even if they try to push him up. Rider's the real breakout star of Fate/Zero. That's why Team Rider gets to be in as much promo material aside of Saber (the face of the franchise). I thought viewers loved "twists".See Code Geass... So FZ 2 sucks because Rider died?There is something wrong with that.Then again I was here when that ep aired so ok.... Rin episode and that second Kiritsugu backstory episode killed the pacing... I was more mad at that than Rider's death. Seriously if they at least included some parts of Heart of Freaks into episode 19 then I can understand. But rlly? Barely 1 chapter stretched to 2 episodes? They coulda used that to even out this week's episode... And that Angra Mainyu thing is more like a fail to be standalone than a plot twist. In Code Geass' case it's plot holes... |
BloodRequiemJun 18, 2012 9:00 PM
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
ssjokg said: Thess said: ssjokg said: So much that it was disappointing? As for Kiritsugu..some people are stupid.With the same reasoning Tokiomi sounds like Aizen so it's even more disappointing(I really read that in a forum).And I never understood why Spike was such a great character.Yes he had some good moments but nothing that great.I believe that Spike is so badass/cool/manly/whatever he is because of the twist in the end just like Kamina(Kamina IS way better than him). As for the pacing the ones that bitch about it are mostly LN readers.I dont know about the japanese but overall I dont feel disappointed at all. That I have to explain what is coming on to non LN readers speak of poor pacing and poor handling of the story. The Angra Mainyu thing, for instance, came out from nowhere in the TV series because they cut all the foreshadowing for no reason. Kiritsugu's overshadowed by Rider, doomed to be 'just there' even if they try to push him up. Rider's the real breakout star of Fate/Zero. That's why Team Rider gets to be in as much promo material aside of Saber (the face of the franchise). I thought viewers loved "twists".See Code Geass... So FZ 2 sucks because Rider died?There is something wrong with that.Then again I was here when that ep aired so ok.... If someone thinks Fate Zero 2 sucks for reasons like this then I'm disappointed in fellow anime fans. Like seriously wtf... |
Ragna92Jun 18, 2012 9:18 PM
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darkTfantasy said: Everyone with half a brain did. His lines are more or less memorized into anyone who's played the VN by now since that particular scene was played over and over and over and over, that and the pleasant death scene at the porch.did anyone notice that shirou was talking at the end for the preview of next weeks episode? |
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Leon-Gun said: darkTfantasy said: Everyone with half a brain did. His lines are more or less memorized into anyone who's played the VN by now since that particular scene was played over and over and over and over, that and the pleasant death scene at the porch.did anyone notice that shirou was talking at the end for the preview of next weeks episode? Will be my face when starts playing... |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
the_trainman said: People are expecting perfect adaptation... Is it achievable at all? There's always something like 'why they haven't included that line/part/whatever'... people are stupid enough to think there will be. even the FMA:B adaptation had complains because of the pacing, well, as have said by the so called "i'm a fan of the manga so the anime should please me enough for my taste" kind of people a lot of them don't even watch legally or even buy the BDs so basically all of this nagging are immature complains from selfish purist fans they can't even discern constructive criticisms from their butthurt nagging and keeps getting into the facade they have the right to express their opinions and disappointment |
| Simplistic beauty can't be appreciated by someone who looks for something grand in everything he watch. |
| By the way ... the grail interrupt kiritsugu and Kirie fight ...and she went to Kiritsugu and talking with him about his wish ... why she didnt head to Kirie ...this is a prejudice from the grail . |
loub31 said: By the way ... the grail interrupt kiritsugu and Kirie fight ...and she went to Kiritsugu and talking with him about his wish ... why she didnt head to Kirie ...this is a prejudice from the grail . We already explained in the previous posts. #182 The grail has Iri's personality so it chose Kiritsugu over Kirei. |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: loub31 said: By the way ... the grail interrupt kiritsugu and Kirie fight ...and she went to Kiritsugu and talking with him about his wish ... why she didnt head to Kirie ...this is a prejudice from the grail . We already explained in the previous posts. #182 The grail has Iri's personality so it chose Kiritsugu over Kirei. ok ... thanks ...but is it necessary to kill ilya in the dream ? .... i mean ; if he didn't kill her what will happen ? |
loub31 said: He would have kept dreaming, and most likely the Grail would have accepted his unconcious wish and wiped out mankind in favor of his family. It probably would have been more of an impact if they wouldn't have completely destroyed the scene back in the first season of F/Z where Kiritsugu almost gave up everything just for Iri and Ilya. SO yeah, his unconcious desire is to just have his family.BloodRequiem said: loub31 said: By the way ... the grail interrupt kiritsugu and Kirie fight ...and she went to Kiritsugu and talking with him about his wish ... why she didnt head to Kirie ...this is a prejudice from the grail . We already explained in the previous posts. #182 The grail has Iri's personality so it chose Kiritsugu over Kirei. ok ... thanks ...but is it necessary to kill ilya in the dream ? .... i mean ; if he didn't kill her what will happen ? |
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| Although I haven't read the LN I also felt that this episode was rushed. Especially the fight between Saber and Lancelot and the motives behind his hatred would have been very interesting to see. I really hope that the BD-version will be at least 10 minutes longer. |
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| Kiritsugu is The One. I can't be the only one who was thinking this. |
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| So, that's it for Kariya? Disappointing end for the guy. Poor Sakura... For now, I guess I'll never know what happens to her, unless I read the VN(which I probably will thanks to Fate/Zero), but I'm sure it's going to be a lifetime of torment and anguish. Great episode, albeit a little rushed. Based on the thread(all 22 pages of it!), the Berserker and Saber fight was apparently cut short? Disappointing to hear, but perhaps the BD will add in a few scenes. In the end, it figures that the Grail was one giant troll. This is Gen Urobuchi, after all, and a miracle-making item is simply an impossibility. The entire scene inside the Grail was nicely done, and as an anime-only fan(not having read the light novel), I didn't have too much trouble following it. On a side note, I'm going to have nightmares for years to come because of Sayaka Ohara's screams. What a harrowing scene. |
MormegilJun 20, 2012 12:20 AM
Mormegil said: In the end, it figures that the Grail was one giant troll. This is Gen Urobuchi, after all, and a miracle-making item is simply an impossibility. . You mean this is Nasu. Nasu created the concept of the corrupted grail that's destroys wishes and trolls people before F/Z |
| The Art of Eight |
dankickyou said: Mormegil said: In the end, it figures that the Grail was one giant troll. This is Gen Urobuchi, after all, and a miracle-making item is simply an impossibility. . You mean this is Nasu. Nasu created the concept of the corrupted grail that's destroys wishes and trolls people before F/Z Ah, yes, Nasu. |
Mormegil said: Well, he didn't exactly wanted to troll people. He wanted it to reflect the nature of humanity and all that. It's just Nasu being artsy. And because Nasu doesn't believe in miracles just being given, he seems more into people working to make the miracle happen rather than having it fall on their lap. Kariya's siatuation would be an example of Gen's kind of trolling. Nasu actually mentioned he would have given a better end for the guy than the "dead on a sewer" end.dankickyou said: Mormegil said: In the end, it figures that the Grail was one giant troll. This is Gen Urobuchi, after all, and a miracle-making item is simply an impossibility. . You mean this is Nasu. Nasu created the concept of the corrupted grail that's destroys wishes and trolls people before F/Z Ah, yes, Nasu. |
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| From a LN reader's point of view this episode was abysmal, but I felt most of it - sans the huge cuts to Berserker vs Saber - was enjoyable enough. Definitely not DEEN or JC Staff level trite. I especially enjoyed the Kirei and Kerrytugu fight, even if both had wonky facial work and experienced some major Higurashi hamhands. Another minor gripe of mine was the music choice for the second half of their battle. Instead of a new track or EMIYA (Time Alter), we got The Battle is to the Strong. Disappointing when this is arguably the most important moment in Fate/Zero. Iri's seiyuu, Sayaka Ohara, deserves great praise for her performance during the grail delusions. Few scenes in this show are as visceral as when both her dark avatar and Ilya were killed. Had this been a longer episode then maybe they could have fit in more of Berserker's backstory and motives, but I guess that's what the blu-ray is for. |
ZyglroxJun 20, 2012 5:08 AM
Leon-Gun said: loub31 said: He would have kept dreaming, and most likely the Grail would have accepted his unconcious wish and wiped out mankind in favor of his family. It probably would have been more of an impact if they wouldn't have completely destroyed the scene back in the first season of F/Z where Kiritsugu almost gave up everything just for Iri and Ilya. SO yeah, his unconcious desire is to just have his family.BloodRequiem said: loub31 said: By the way ... the grail interrupt kiritsugu and Kirie fight ...and she went to Kiritsugu and talking with him about his wish ... why she didnt head to Kirie ...this is a prejudice from the grail . We already explained in the previous posts. #182 The grail has Iri's personality so it chose Kiritsugu over Kirei. ok ... thanks ...but is it necessary to kill ilya in the dream ? .... i mean ; if he didn't kill her what will happen ? ah thanks .... but i really still confused about the grail thread all i understand is : the grail is evil so it chose Iri personality to affect kiritsugu and make its born in this world .... in the dream the grail said that it can grant a wish wich is save the majority " kiritsugu method " ; why he didnt accept .. this is better than nothing !! . For the example of the two vessels i found it logical and what did kiritsugu was right ...even that the grail is evil or it lies or deceive him ...how Kiritsugu find out that . finally .. why he was talking about the 6 billions people ? and why he must to sacrifice his family for the sake of saving those people |
loub31 said: all i understand is : the grail is evil so it chose Iri personality to affect kiritsugu and make its born in this world .... in the dream the grail said that it can grant a wish wich is save the majority " kiritsugu method " ; why he didnt accept .. this is better than nothing !! . For the example of the two vessels i found it logical and what did kiritsugu was right Because it would mean killing everyone in the world, since that's what Kerrytugu's flawed philosophy would ultimately end in. Had anyone else reached the grail then the end result would be the same, as Angra Mainyu - the evil spirit that inhabiting the grail - will twist any wish into "kill everyone." If you want to learn more about Angra Mainyu then check out Stay Night or Hollow axtaria. even that the grail is evil or it lies or deceive him ...how Kiritsugu find out that . I'm going to assume you don't know what Angra Mainyu is, which is normal as not many people are familiar with Zoroastrian mythology. It's basically their equivalent of Satan. The name alone should be an indicator of something being horribly wrong with the grail.and why he must to sacrifice his family for the sake of saving those people Have you not been paying attention to the show? Kerrytugu's philosophy is saving the many over the few; quantity over quality. The boat scenario during the grail delusions summed it up very nicely. If he had to choose between two people and the rest of the world then the end result would be obvious, even if they're the people he cares for most. Blame his Mind of Steel. |
ZyglroxJun 20, 2012 8:20 PM
dankickyou said: Mormegil said: In the end, it figures that the Grail was one giant troll. This is Gen Urobuchi, after all, and a miracle-making item is simply an impossibility. . You mean this is Nasu. Nasu created the concept of the corrupted grail that's destroys wishes and trolls people before F/Z Gen got nothing on Nasu's backstory of Avenger (which is screwed up) and his statement of humanity reflection = evil. I wince at the poor guy's suffering. Zyglrox said: Because it would mean killing everyone in the world, since that's what Kerrytugu's flawed philosophy would ultimately end in. Had anyone else reached the grail then the end result would be the same, as Angra Mainyu - the evil spirit that inhabiting the grail - will twist any wish into "kill everyone." Angra Mainyu isn't an evil spirit precisely (it's only the reflection of humanity. It's only evil because humans are generally evil in Nasuverse) also any wish? Bazett says hi. She got her wish granted. The world never ended. Once you finish Hollow Ataraxia, it's pretty telling Fate/Zero makes Kiritsugu and Irisviel the evil ones, the wish was just reflecting their way to do things. It has nothing to do with the general evil, it's a reflection of their ways amplified and desires underneath the inhibitions. That was the point of the Grail reflecting Kiritsugu and matching Irisviel's personality as shell. |
ThessJun 20, 2012 9:34 PM
Thess said: Angra Mainyu isn't an evil spirit precisely (it's only the reflection of humanity. It's only evil because humans are scum apparently in Nasuverse) also any wish? Bazett says hi. She got her wish granted. |
Zyglrox said: |
Thess said: dankickyou said: Mormegil said: In the end, it figures that the Grail was one giant troll. This is Gen Urobuchi, after all, and a miracle-making item is simply an impossibility. . You mean this is Nasu. Nasu created the concept of the corrupted grail that's destroys wishes and trolls people before F/Z Gen got nothing on Nasu's backstory of Avenger (which is screwed up) and his statement of humanity reflection = evil. I wince at the poor guy's suffering. Zyglrox said: Because it would mean killing everyone in the world, since that's what Kerrytugu's flawed philosophy would ultimately end in. Had anyone else reached the grail then the end result would be the same, as Angra Mainyu - the evil spirit that inhabiting the grail - will twist any wish into "kill everyone." Angra Mainyu isn't an evil spirit precisely (it's only the reflection of humanity. It's only evil because humans are generally evil in Nasuverse) also any wish? Bazett says hi. She got her wish granted. The world never ended. Once you finish Hollow Ataraxia, it's pretty telling Fate/Zero makes Kiritsugu and Irisviel the evil ones, the wish was just reflecting their way to do things. It has nothing to do with the general evil, it's a reflection of their ways amplified and desires underneath the inhibitions. That was the point of the Grail reflecting Kiritsugu and matching Irisviel's personality as shell. So...Grail-Kun is a good boy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=WiwHmKzD314 Seems legit to me. |
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Change, change the form of man. Free the might from fleshy mire. Boil the blood in heart of fire. Gone, gone the form of man. Rise the demon, Etrigan! |
LunarMoon said: Thess said: dankickyou said: Mormegil said: In the end, it figures that the Grail was one giant troll. This is Gen Urobuchi, after all, and a miracle-making item is simply an impossibility. . You mean this is Nasu. Nasu created the concept of the corrupted grail that's destroys wishes and trolls people before F/Z Gen got nothing on Nasu's backstory of Avenger (which is screwed up) and his statement of humanity reflection = evil. I wince at the poor guy's suffering. Zyglrox said: Because it would mean killing everyone in the world, since that's what Kerrytugu's flawed philosophy would ultimately end in. Had anyone else reached the grail then the end result would be the same, as Angra Mainyu - the evil spirit that inhabiting the grail - will twist any wish into "kill everyone." Angra Mainyu isn't an evil spirit precisely (it's only the reflection of humanity. It's only evil because humans are generally evil in Nasuverse) also any wish? Bazett says hi. She got her wish granted. The world never ended. Once you finish Hollow Ataraxia, it's pretty telling Fate/Zero makes Kiritsugu and Irisviel the evil ones, the wish was just reflecting their way to do things. It has nothing to do with the general evil, it's a reflection of their ways amplified and desires underneath the inhibitions. That was the point of the Grail reflecting Kiritsugu and matching Irisviel's personality as shell. So...Grail-Kun is a good boy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=WiwHmKzD314 Seems legit to me. The top comment made me lmao |
| Actually, I didn't think about it until now but Sehai-kun's suggestion to Shirou is totally a nod to Archer's true role as a Counter Guardian. But yeah, seems legit to me. Angra Mainyu is a mirror for humanity. Humanity wanted to be pure so they pushed all it's sins into something (sounds familiar), and thus was Angra Mainyu created. And thus, here's another little morsel that's a central theme in Stay Night... can you judge something before it even does anything? If Angra Mainyu has not been even born, can you call it evil still and condemn it to die? Honestly, Shirou was actually given reasons to destroy the grail, Kiritsugu just killed it because it wasn't his miracle. That's weak. At least Shirou was even given a sneak preview of it killing people. |
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| There is still quite a bit left to cover in the LN. They better not rush things in the finale. |
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Zyglrox said: loub31 said: all i understand is : the grail is evil so it chose Iri personality to affect kiritsugu and make its born in this world .... in the dream the grail said that it can grant a wish wich is save the majority " kiritsugu method " ; why he didnt accept .. this is better than nothing !! . For the example of the two vessels i found it logical and what did kiritsugu was right Because it would mean killing everyone in the world, since that's what Kerrytugu's flawed philosophy would ultimately end in. Had anyone else reached the grail then the end result would be the same, as Angra Mainyu - the evil spirit that inhabiting the grail - will twist any wish into "kill everyone." If you want to learn more about Angra Mainyu then check out Stay Night or Hollow axtaria. even that the grail is evil or it lies or deceive him ...how Kiritsugu find out that . I'm going to assume you don't know what Angra Mainyu is, which is normal as not many people are familiar with Zoroastrian mythology. It's basically their equivalent of Satan. The name alone should be an indicator of something being horribly wrong with the grail.and why he must to sacrifice his family for the sake of saving those people Have you not been paying attention to the show? Kerrytugu's philosophy is saving the many over the few; quantity over quality. The boat scenario during the grail delusions summed it up very nicely. If he had to choose between two people and the rest of the world then the end result would be obvious, even if they're the people he cares for most. Blame his Mind of Steel.Zyglrox said: loub31 said: all i understand is : the grail is evil so it chose Iri personality to affect kiritsugu and make its born in this world .... in the dream the grail said that it can grant a wish wich is save the majority " kiritsugu method " ; why he didnt accept .. this is better than nothing !! . For the example of the two vessels i found it logical and what did kiritsugu was right Because it would mean killing everyone in the world, since that's what Kerrytugu's flawed philosophy would ultimately end in. Had anyone else reached the grail then the end result would be the same, as Angra Mainyu - the evil spirit that inhabiting the grail - will twist any wish into "kill everyone." If you want to learn more about Angra Mainyu then check out Stay Night or Hollow axtaria. even that the grail is evil or it lies or deceive him ...how Kiritsugu find out that . I'm going to assume you don't know what Angra Mainyu is, which is normal as not many people are familiar with Zoroastrian mythology. It's basically their equivalent of Satan. The name alone should be an indicator of something being horribly wrong with the grail.and why he must to sacrifice his family for the sake of saving those people Have you not been paying attention to the show? Kerrytugu's philosophy is saving the many over the few; quantity over quality. The boat scenario during the grail delusions summed it up very nicely. If he had to choose between two people and the rest of the world then the end result would be obvious, even if they're the people he cares for most. Blame his Mind of Steel.I disagree with you .... how it can be to save the majority equivalent to kill everyone in this world !! and the grail illusion does not make any sense for me ...it was talking about the two boats and kiritsugu save 200 people and that's good so Kerrytugu's philosophy works ... after that killing his father suddently!! killing Natalia and Maya too !! i really do not understand the significance of this scenes .. i mean i cant find a relation between all this scenes Also ... why Killing Angra Mainyu and Ilya equivalent to save the 6 billion people because the dream will stop after that destroying the grail ??? |
| Yes, the dream stopped the moment he killed his secret desire to just save his family and screw the world. He basically rejected the Grail by "killing it" (Irisviel was the will of the grail in the dream). And the dream was just showing Kiritsugu how flawed his method is. He tries to save the many but in the end he's just leaving a trail of corpses. He's destroying lives. The Grail can't do miracles the wisher can't comprehend. Kiritsugu doesn't know how to save others without killing, as such the Grail can't save others without killing. Plus, Kiritsugu had a secret desire to just save Iri and Ilya mixed in inside his heart and the Grail picked it up. |
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loub31 said: I disagree with you .... how it can be to save the majority equivalent to kill everyone in this world !! and the grail illusion does not make any sense for me ...it was talking about the two boats and kiritsugu save 200 people and that's good so Kerrytugu's philosophy works ... after that killing his father suddently!! killing Natalia and Maya too !! i really do not understand the significance of this scenes .. i mean i cant find a relation between all this scenes Kerry's dream isnt saving the majority of humankind.Is to stop war,pain,despair,crimes etc(save EVERYONE).For that to happen, according to the grail, he would need to kill every human in the world.And no the illusions with the boats do not work because Kiritsugu ends up killing everyone if you didnt notice. example: Boat#1 has 300 people,Boat#2 has 200 people. Kiritsugu kills everyone in Boat#2 300 saved, 200 sacrificed Then... The 300 people split up: Baoat#1 has100 ,Boat#2 has 150 Kiritsugu kills everyone in Boat#1 150 saved ,300 sacrificed ...... .......... That isnt what Kiritsugu wanted to do at all Killing his father and Natalia is exactly what he did in the past in order to save many others,he just saw it in the dream.He kills Maiya to save Ilya and Iri(choosing 2 out of 3 people he cares for) . |
ssjokgJun 21, 2012 4:19 PM
LunarMoon said: So...Grail-Kun is a good boy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=WiwHmKzD314 Seems legit to me. Grail-kun is just a character created as one-note joke by someone who isn't Nasu. You shouldn't take him seriously. It's for laughs. loub31 said: I disagree with you .... how it can be to save the majority equivalent to kill everyone in this world !! and the grail illusion does not make any sense for me ...it was talking about the two boats and kiritsugu save 200 people and that's good so Kerrytugu's philosophy works ... after that killing his father suddently!! killing Natalia and Maya too !! i really do not understand the significance of this scenes .. i mean i cant find a relation between all this scenes Also ... why Killing Angra Mainyu and Ilya equivalent to save the 6 billion people because the dream will stop after that destroying the grail ??? The real wish Kiritsugu had was to be with Illya and Irisviel in a peaceful world. The Grail reacted to his real wish and applied his methods. Kiritsugu's way of life is to kill people. It was thrown back to his face. That's why he's crushed after it (and it was foreshadowed by Saber in episode 16). Had Kiritsugu be a purehearted hero who lived his life in a saving way without sin, then the methods would have been different. Unfortunately, such is human nature. |
ThessJun 21, 2012 6:50 PM
Thess said: Grail-kun is just a character created as one-note joke by someone who isn't Nasu. You shouldn't take him seriously. It's for laughs. Grail-kun's portrayal is consistent with everything we know about The Grail. It was literally the main villain of A Look Into the Grail In Fate/Zero Volume 4: The crime of rebellion the crime of intimidation the crime of adultery the crime of destruction the seven cardinal sins the crime of coercion the crime of theft the crime of desertion the crime of slander the crime of arson the crime of insulting the crime of disrespect the crime of sowing discord the crime of abduction the crime of bribery the crime of abortion the crime of assisting suicide the crime of gambling the crime of abandoning a corpse the crime of mobbing the crime of abandonment the crime of bearing false witness the crime of possessing stolen goods the crime of kidnapping the crime of violence, all crimes should be assessed and sentenced to capital punishment or severe punishment refuse and deny all hatred kill kill kill it is absolutely forbidden kill kill kill he will absolutely not agree kill kill kill very good just like that kill kill kill right that’s right kill kill kill promise kill kill kill but no but no what kill kill kill ah it is really boring to have only this one thought—— "——!?" The vortex of sound that was the curse was circling. There existed something here that should not exist; from within the barrage of denying curses, a voice cried out, ‘yes!” This is not a benevolent construct. |
LunarMoonJun 21, 2012 8:02 PM
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Change, change the form of man. Free the might from fleshy mire. Boil the blood in heart of fire. Gone, gone the form of man. Rise the demon, Etrigan! |
| They made Grail-kun's seiyuu the same one as Sakura's, Shitaya Noriko so that says something... |
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| The fight between Kiritsugu and Kirei was off the chain! Crazy Matrix-style fight inside of the Dark Knight Batcave! I didn't expect Lancelot to get defeated as easily as he did, and why was he even upset to begin with? Oh well, still a very entertaining episode. |
| "No matter how much of a genius one is, in front of the Uchiha name, they're just ordinary people." - Sasuke Uchiha |
Uchihafan25 said: He kinda was and he kinda wasn't. He just wanted to be punished... which turned into blind rage since he's a Berserker and all and they can't think straight. They took out the Lancelot backstory scene so that made it a bit more confusing.The fight between Kiritsugu and Kirei was off the chain! Crazy Matrix-style fight inside of the Dark Knight Batcave! I didn't expect Lancelot to get defeated as easily as he did, and why was he even upset to begin with? Oh well, still a very entertaining episode. |
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| Preview Ep 25 |
NNick said: So I Heard Its Airing Today? Very doubtful, as there'd be no point in releasing the preview images on the air date. As the_trainman mentioned, though, the art for the episode looks delcious. I'm just hoping that it doesn't end up feeling rushed or crammed. |
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Change, change the form of man. Free the might from fleshy mire. Boil the blood in heart of fire. Gone, gone the form of man. Rise the demon, Etrigan! |
| It's kinda funny. In the LN the first 2 volumes bored the hell out of me, 3rd picked up and 4th was WHAM HOLY SHIT! I actually like the first season here. |
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