Leondre said: Gogetters said: Leondre said: Going to repeat what has been said before...[inb4 pirating isn't stealing. Anyone arguing this needs to get their head out of their ass. You are not stealing, you are copying. Taking either the object itself or any replication without permission of the creator is stealing. Call it copying if you want to make yourself feel better, but in relation to this topic the two are synonymous. Also I'd love to see you try to tell that to a judge. "But I was just copying it." Actually I'd be telling the Judge I was" stealing", because "just copying" carries a harsher sentence. Pleading guilty to petty larceny is a slap on the wrist at best. pleading guilty to copyright infringement means I have to pay a fine numbering in the thousands, getting at least 2 years in a federal prison and forfeiting your rights and privileges as an American citizen. |
JigeroFeb 16, 2012 1:21 AM
| It doesn't think, it doesn't feel, it doesn't laugh or cry..... All it does from dusk till dawn is make the soldiers die. |
Leondre said: Gogetters said: Leondre said: Going to repeat what has been said before...[inb4 pirating isn't stealing. Anyone arguing this needs to get their head out of their ass. You are not stealing, you are copying. Taking either the object itself or any replication without permission of the creator is stealing. Call it copying if you want to make yourself feel better, but in relation to this topic the two are synonymous. Also I'd love to see you try to tell that to a judge. "But I was just copying it." I don't see how they are synonymous really. Sticking with books from the previous analogy you used (just keeping a consistant theme), pirating is like going into a bookstore, taking a book then writing the pages in your notebook without buying the book. You won't be charged for shoplifting, because you are copying. Although they don't take kindly to it and will ask you to leave, not that I'd know or anything >.> <.< Or cheating on a test, you are copying someone's answers, but is that theft? You certainly won't go to jail for it. I would tell the judge "but I didn't steal it" and guess what, I wouldn't be charged with theft, shoplifting or larceny...of course I'd have one hell of a fine to pay for copyright infringement XD |
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| Theft: a : the act of stealing; specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it b : an unlawful taking of property Pirating =/= Stealing |
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Gogetters said: Theft: a : the act of stealing; specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it b : an unlawful taking of property Pirating =/= Stealing an unlawful taking of property = the removing of property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it. I agree with you Gogetters but surely you could have phrased that better. they sound the exact same thing to me. |
| No. |
| Copy and pasted, wasn't my phrasing. |
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| Another copyright infringement/pirating thread, and all the wannabe lawyers come out to thrust their superiority upon those who use language to convey meaning rather than relying upon mere technicalities in the offences. Yes, everyone fucking knows that there is a legal difference between theft and piracy. Acting like you're qualified to practice law and are able to discern the (oh-so-not) subtle difference between theft and piracy..get over yourself. The important point being conveyed when someone uses theft instead of piracy is not the means through which the impugned offence is taking place; it's the effect. Guess what? For the would-be criminal, the effect is the same. You are now in possession of a product which you did not pay for. Simple as. Leave the technical jargon to the courts, where it really matters. Edit: Also, believe you me, I know about the law. |
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Grimm3r said: Drunk_Samurai said: Grimm3r said: If you download anything without paying for it, or without already owning a copy what you are doing is pirating. End of discussion. Now, what is the probability of a company going after people in a market they aren't even selling in? Not likely, as they have no reason to (they aren't losing money). It is still piracy even if you own it. Say I own a copy of WC2 (before they made battle.net, and all that online dl crap), and I have the Cd key, but my Cd is really scratched, and so I cannot install it. I download a copy from a peer-to-peer site, and then use my cd-key. That isn't pirating. I own a copy of the game, whether I get the data from my cd, or maybe I copied the cd content onto a remote drive, or maybe I'm getting it from a friend. None of that is pirating if I actually own the product I am getting. Actually it is still piracy. The law only allows you to make an archive of the product you own yourself. You cannot get it from other sources. You would still get a C&D letter for downloading something off the internet even if you own it. Leondre said: Gogetters said: Leondre said: Going to repeat what has been said before...[inb4 pirating isn't stealing. Anyone arguing this needs to get their head out of their ass. You are not stealing, you are copying. Taking either the object itself or any replication without permission of the creator is stealing. Call it copying if you want to make yourself feel better, but in relation to this topic the two are synonymous. Also I'd love to see you try to tell that to a judge. "But I was just copying it." Wrong. There's a difference between taking something (such as the original CD from a store) and downloading something off the internet where you are just making a copy of it. |
| Lol I think my original question was answered now anyway. Knew there was going to be a debate but not this heated. I'm off now, thanks guys. Keep posting if you want to. |
| No. |
| @Leondre that analogy just doesn't work, because that is a case of taking something physical which someone can then not buy, thus taking away profit. @Drunk_samurai - Well, they clearly recognized the stupidity of their ways because pretty much any game is now downloadable from the sellers website. |
Monad said: I couldn't agree more.... Let me put it this way.... I live in a country where you can't buy anime, I don't think it's possible even through Amazon... My country is hardly supported anywhere in the world... So what can I do...? I saw something that I liked on TV, and they stopped airing it and I can't get it anywhere... I have to download it. Then problem number 2... I don't have money to spend on this, I have to save up for university and other more important things. I am not rich... So what can I do? Stop eating so I can watch anime... I don't think so. Actually anime, music and movies are only things that bring some enjoyment in my life (not counting friends, I am talking about material stuff)... And prices in my country are very high... I will explain through my currency... To buy original game or movie in my country costs from 5.000 to 10.000 dinars (which is from 50 to 100 euros and I have no idea how much dollars, but a lot), average pay in my country is about 30.000 dinars (300 euros)... So you have to take 1/3 of your pay to buy anime, movies, games (anime even more since if you find anything in this country it's so fuckin' expensive...)... How is somebody suppose to do that? Luckily this country is the nest of piracy... It's nothing unusual to see cop listening to downloaded songs, watching movies. They even go and buy movies for 100 dinars (1 euro) illegally... Lot of companies use illegal Microsoft Windows OS... I agree it's not legal to download but I don't think it's bad... In this country there are people who buy movies and songs, but If it weren't for piracy and people who showed it to richer people they would have never bought it. They wouldn't even know what Eminem, Justin Bieber, EA Sprots and etc. are.... |
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Jack_Rav said: You are now in possession of a product which you did not pay for. Simple as. Leave the technical jargon to the courts, where it really matters. Edit: Also, believe you me, I know about the law. Clearly you don't because "Possession" is an entirely nebulise concept when it comes to digital media, Software Licensing, DRM, ToS, Region Locking and heck even copyright laws in general make the idea of possessing digital media, confusing and misleading. Ford can't take away my truck if I alter my engine, But Adobe can take away my copy of Photoshop if I break their terms of service despite legally pay for the program. |
JigeroFeb 17, 2012 5:47 AM
| It doesn't think, it doesn't feel, it doesn't laugh or cry..... All it does from dusk till dawn is make the soldiers die. |
Jigero said: Jack_Rav said: You are now in possession of a product which you did not pay for. Simple as. Leave the technical jargon to the courts, where it really matters. Edit: Also, believe you me, I know about the law. Clearly you don't because "Possession" is an entirely nebulise concept when it comes to digital media, Software Licensing, DRM, ToS, Region Locking and heck even copyright laws in general make the idea of possessing digital media, confusing and misleading. Ford can't take away my truck if I alter my engine, But Adobe can take away my copy of Photoshop if I break their terms of service despite legally pay for the program. Lol...an example of the technical arseholery I was talking about in my previous post. ...the one you quoted. Seriously, learn to glean the intent behind the entire passage, rather than addressing inconsequential parts. |
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Grimm3r said: @Leondre that analogy just doesn't work, because that is a case of taking something physical which someone can then not buy, thus taking away profit. @Drunk_samurai - Well, they clearly recognized the stupidity of their ways because pretty much any game is now downloadable from the sellers website. And? You would still have to pay again unless you happened to have bought it from that site. |
| PROTIP: It's only illegal when you get caught. |
Jack_Rav said: Lol...an example of the technical arseholery I was talking about in my previous post. ...the one you quoted. Seriously, learn to glean the intent behind the entire passage, rather than addressing inconsequential parts. wait the part where you where putting you self on pedestal in a vain attempt at stroking your ego to anonymous people on the internet, was the inconsequential part? and the part where you added nothing to the thread other then stating the obvious was the important part? |
| It doesn't think, it doesn't feel, it doesn't laugh or cry..... All it does from dusk till dawn is make the soldiers die. |
| Frankly, I don't give a damn. I completely support piracy and don't care about legal copies. First of all, I live in Bulgaria, where animes are not available. Second, even if there was a shipping of DVDs to Bulgaria on on- line stores, it's 3 times more expensive than the prise of the item. Trird, DVDs come out way later than the release of the series. Fourth, I never give money for experiments- I wouldn't buy something I haven't already considered worthy. And last, the salaries are hardly enough to pay taxes and food, so extras like DVDs is unthinkable. I'm so sorry, but, screw that. God bless piracy! (= |
| “Have you ever been kicked at the speed of light?” - Borsalino |
Ki-zaru said: Frankly, I don't give a damn. I completely support piracy and don't care about legal copies. First of all, I live in Bulgaria, where animes are not available. Second, even if there was a shipping of DVDs to Bulgaria on on- line stores, it's 3 times more expensive than the prise of the item. Trird, DVDs come out way later than the release of the series. Fourth, I never give money for experiments- I wouldn't buy something I haven't already considered worthy. And last, the salaries are hardly enough to pay taxes and food, so extras like DVDs is unthinkable. I'm so sorry, but, screw that. God bless piracy! (= Haha, you are close to me :D And our countries have exactly the same problems :D |
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| Theft is ALWAYS theft, and people getting anal over terminology are like otakus, ie always pathetic. That said, if it was aired in Japan over the air, where it would be commonly acceptable to catch the signal on a TV and watch it without cost beyond the cost of providing electricty to your TV, you are not really committing any horrible action by downloading that which was given to the airwaves freely and then modified so as to have your language translated into the video content so as to know what was said. It's considered 'a cretinous' act to sell fan subs, and it is considered 'unsupportive' of the source to watch a fansub over a commercial release on DVD if it is available in a means which you could purchase and watch. I don't consider unsubbed undubbed DVD anime worth anything at all though. But I don't speak Japanese. A copy of a commercial digital product is of course theft (or whatever fucking term floats your boat) if it was something you COULD have bought, but were just too cheap to buy. There is NO defense such as 'but I am a poor student'. Too fucking bad if your income blows. But until the anime industry fully embraces options like Crunchyroll it is not deserving of any sympathy. Hey you are NOT obliged to suffer fools eh. There is no law stating you must always care for the stupid in society. I have enjoyed Crunchyroll. Not always perfect, but, it is at least legal. No guilt angle present. Everyone will have opinions about subbing of course. Not speaking Japanese, I am stuck just watching subs or dubs and at the mercy of the translator and hoping they actually have a clue what was said in Japanese and that they understand the context. TV programs broadcast via TV stations have to pay for the air time, it isn't free. They get their profit from the process of advertising. They don't require the DVDs to make the show make money, that's all just gravy. This is the 21st century, and if you are 'relying' on dvd sales, you are doing it wrong. No one should feel bad about propping up a bad business model. Like I said, you are not obliged to suffer fools. The law of your nation will vary. Currently Hollywood is trying to see to it they set the laws of the entire planet. Fuck Hollywood. And fuck their paid for minions disguised as our elected politicians that are supposed to be working for me. |
| While not technically anime, currently I am a big fan of Hatsune Miku. At least I can go see her in concert. |
Lesley_Roberta said: Theft is ALWAYS theft, and people getting anal over terminology are like otakus, ie always pathetic. That said, if it was aired in Japan over the air, where it would be commonly acceptable to catch the signal on a TV and watch it without cost beyond the cost of providing electricty to your TV, you are not really committing any horrible action by downloading that which was given to the airwaves freely and then modified so as to have your language translated into the video content so as to know what was said. It's considered 'a cretinous' act to sell fan subs, and it is considered 'unsupportive' of the source to watch a fansub over a commercial release on DVD if it is available in a means which you could purchase and watch. I don't consider unsubbed undubbed DVD anime worth anything at all though. But I don't speak Japanese. A copy of a commercial digital product is of course theft (or whatever fucking term floats your boat) if it was something you COULD have bought, but were just too cheap to buy. There is NO defense such as 'but I am a poor student'. Too fucking bad if your income blows. But until the anime industry fully embraces options like Crunchyroll it is not deserving of any sympathy. Hey you are NOT obliged to suffer fools eh. There is no law stating you must always care for the stupid in society. I have enjoyed Crunchyroll. Not always perfect, but, it is at least legal. No guilt angle present. Everyone will have opinions about subbing of course. Not speaking Japanese, I am stuck just watching subs or dubs and at the mercy of the translator and hoping they actually have a clue what was said in Japanese and that they understand the context. TV programs broadcast via TV stations have to pay for the air time, it isn't free. They get their profit from the process of advertising. They don't require the DVDs to make the show make money, that's all just gravy. This is the 21st century, and if you are 'relying' on dvd sales, you are doing it wrong. No one should feel bad about propping up a bad business model. Like I said, you are not obliged to suffer fools. The law of your nation will vary. Currently Hollywood is trying to see to it they set the laws of the entire planet. Fuck Hollywood. And fuck their paid for minions disguised as our elected politicians that are supposed to be working for me. Hehe, you are right... This is some form of theft... But one thing... There is no guilt... Or at least I don't feel it... I don't have any other way to get to anime so I have to stream it or download it... :D And why should I feel guilt? It's not like they are loosing millions because of me.. |
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Grimm3r said: @Leondre that analogy just doesn't work, because that is a case of taking something physical which someone can then not buy, thus taking away profit. @Drunk_samurai - Well, they clearly recognized the stupidity of their ways because pretty much any game is now downloadable from the sellers website. You are simply arguing over technicalities. |
Leondre said: Grimm3r said: @Leondre that analogy just doesn't work, because that is a case of taking something physical which someone can then not buy, thus taking away profit. @Drunk_samurai - Well, they clearly recognized the stupidity of their ways because pretty much any game is now downloadable from the sellers website. You are simply arguing over technicalities. The devil is in the details. |
Lesley_Roberta said: Theft is ALWAYS theft, and people getting anal over terminology are like otakus, ie always pathetic. Congratulations making a pointless and obvious observation, Yes Theft is always Theft, like bacon is always Bacon, but copyright infringement is not theft. People who insist copyright infringement is theft are like people who insist that the world is flat, you know... idiots? |
JigeroFeb 18, 2012 9:19 PM
| It doesn't think, it doesn't feel, it doesn't laugh or cry..... All it does from dusk till dawn is make the soldiers die. |
| For me, the question is not "what is the law?" it''s "is the current law antiquated, constricting, self-serving for certain parties, and far too generalized?" Hell yes. However, until another major streaming player gets taken off the net, I will not resort to giving a rather LONG list to my experienced pirate friend. I didn't like the pay for play policy anyway. I really don't mind that some other players are instering commercials. TV has them, why not the net? Besides... streaming isn't illegal XD. |
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