Puella Magi Madoka Magica
Available on Manga Store
New
What did you think of this episode?
DO NOT discuss the source material beyond this episode. If you want to discuss future events or theories, please use separate threads.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
Jan 22, 2011 7:23 PM
#251
OMG T__T i still can't believe it T_T MAAAMIIIII T_T!!!!!!! There are Miracles and Magic <---- that's the title from the 4th chapter, perhaps we'll see mami again T_T or maybe that's maodka's wish o.o, bringing mami back |
Aki_SuzukiJan 22, 2011 7:28 PM
Jan 22, 2011 7:28 PM
#252
Madoka is totally going to wish for Mami to revive or something. |
Jan 22, 2011 7:51 PM
#253
Jan 22, 2011 8:22 PM
#254
lol, I knew that Mami was going to die the second she started getting all emotional with Madoka...Didn't make it any less sad though. I agree that Madoka will probably wish Mami back. But it probably won't be so easy, since they hinted that you have to be very clear to make a wish that helps someone other than yourself...Madoka will probably not be clear enough, and end up turning Mami into a witch or something. Anyway, definitely the best episode yet. Can't wait to see more, this episode has finally got me hooked. ;) |
Jan 22, 2011 9:18 PM
#255
Woah, that was a rather odd development, can't help but wonder what other surprises await wrapped in the seemingly linear Mahou Shoujo packaging. Really digging all the morality talk and the darker atmosphere but the plot still seems a bit naive; okay, being cautious before accepting the contract is wise, doing it to be cool and help people is cute, but seriously, is becoming a billionaire so uninteresting? As far as I can see there don't seem to be any inherent repercussions for making a wish (other than having to fight monsters for the rest of your life) and you can expect to get a fair deal of those seeds so why not? Why not ask to be a billionaire instead of wishing for a bloody cake? |
Jan 22, 2011 9:27 PM
#256
iSee said: Woah, that was a rather odd development, can't help but wonder what other surprises await wrapped in the seemingly linear Mahou Shoujo packaging. Really digging all the morality talk and the darker atmosphere but the plot still seems a bit naive; okay, being cautious before accepting the contract is wise, doing it to be cool and help people is cute, but seriously, is becoming a billionaire so uninteresting? As far as I can see there don't seem to be any inherent repercussions for making a wish (other than having to fight monsters for the rest of your life) and you can expect to get a fair deal of those seeds so why not? Why not ask to be a billionaire instead of wishing for a bloody cake? Because Madoka is like 12 or something and something and doesn't understand the value of money? Just throwing that out there. Children are not smart people, but it's ignorance not stupidity. |
Jan 22, 2011 9:41 PM
#257
I think it's more that she's still got no idea what's really going on, besides like they said earlier in the show: they have everything they really want, there's not really much for them to wish for(well no we've seen madok's drunk mother, and the boy in the hospital..so not totally true). I wonder if you can wish to live a happy life? (knowing the suspicious rabbit...thingy kyubi that happy life probably wouldn't last very long thou >.>) |
Jan 23, 2011 1:26 AM
#258
We saw Madoka's drunk mother, but I'm pretty sure this is a matter of occasional overindulgence, not severe alcoholism. I don't think she has a "problem". Just had a rough day at work and treated herself to a binge. I mean, we don't know what kind of job she has, but I don't get the impression it's one you could keep while consistently showing up hungover. Kind of like this one time I saw a national enquirer saying Bush had a bad Crack habit (he was president at the time). I brushed it off because you can't do crack and keep a job like that. Such severe types of addictions become blatantly obvious and cause us to do things that lose our jobs (not to mention family, friends, money, respect, and dignity. Really shitty deal lol). I'm pretty sure we're quite far away from the "I wish mommy would stop drinking" level of alcoholism. Even the husband was just looking at her like "Oh how cute. Poor baby must've had a rough day" |
Jan 23, 2011 3:45 AM
#259
Jan 23, 2011 3:48 AM
#260
Damn =( I always thought Mami had an ulterior motive so I was always suspicious of her. By the time in the episode when I realized she was actually a nice person she just had to die. Sucks =( |
Jan 23, 2011 4:32 AM
#261
Everyone says Mami must revive via wish. However, that's the worst possible thing someone can EVER do to her. Obviously, Urobuchi will torture her, tear her apart and kill her off again with even more guro and call 'whos ur mammy?'. |
Jan 23, 2011 5:20 AM
#262
ringoo4 said: Everyone says Mami must revive via wish. However, that's the worst possible thing someone can EVER do to her. Obviously, Urobuchi will torture her, tear her apart and kill her off again with even more guro and call 'whos ur mammy?'. And the living will envy the dead... |
Jan 23, 2011 6:21 AM
#263
Best episode so far. I guess now she will wish for that girl to come back to life. Kind of predictable but at least the whole suspense made this episode good. Awesome ED btw. |
Jan 23, 2011 7:06 AM
#264
Looks like Mami got a little ahead (pun intended) of herself and bit the dust. I figured something would go wrong but not that kind of wrong. Resurrection would ruin the mood created from this episode so I hope that doesn't happen. |
Jan 23, 2011 8:41 AM
#266
Jan 23, 2011 10:01 AM
#267
Somehow hospital-like maze at the beggining reminded me Silent Hill series and then somehow theme changed to "candy world" or whatever. Can't follow the logic. But I only just now noticed that these amazing things you can get only in SHAFT show. |
Jan 23, 2011 10:10 AM
#268
Ahh yes, the bitch finally died.... don't get me wrong but I always had bad impression from Mami, where she is manipulative like Kyubey. And also trying to act badass (but than got owned in just 3 episodes) I don't know why but, that Kyubey is giving me creeps and something tells me that he is the lass boss/villain or antagonist. |
Jan 23, 2011 11:09 AM
#270
garfield15 said: iSee said: (other than having to fight monsters for the rest of your life) Yeah, that's kind of, you know, important. If you're gonna make a wish, it better be worth something that is worth putting your life on the line for the rest of your life for it. I was thinking the same thing. I kept looking thinking "Shit, that's a really important part of the picture. Can't just dismiss the importance of the 'fighting monsters for the rest of your life' part of the deal" It's like making a deal with the devil Devil: I'll give you anything you want. Any wish can be granted. Me: yeah yeah that's nice... What's this in the small print about my immortal soul? Devil: Oh, you can just ignore that. It's not important. O_o |
Jan 23, 2011 1:13 PM
#271
Day2Dream said: Resurrection would ruin the mood created from this episode so I hope that doesn't happen. As I've read somewhere on the interwebs - (paraphrase) Bringing her back to life would lose all the meaning in her death. Rather than being a serious consequences, it merely becomes an inconvenience. From what I've spoiled myself on the madoka wiki speculations and producer chat logs, it was implied that Mami's role was to introduce the system, to be a mentor and to provide the motivation or drive (through her death apparently). |
Jan 23, 2011 2:58 PM
#272
Gangler said: Yeah I agree with you and there has been some other animes I have seen trickery of this. Be aware that devils will do anything to deceive and that means tricking you into something even if the master of Kyubey gave him rules. The thing will be what can be done to counter that deceivement. I am thinking the last boss at the end may be Kyubey himself in his real version but then again why would he help Madoka? I am fearing that once Madoka becomes a magic user and has a contract with Kyubey he can do things with her more than can do now with her. After all once you get into a contract with someone, you are partially under authority of that person. Somehow Homura knows that and that's why she wants to prevent the problem, either that or Madoka will be responsible in killing off too many witches attracting witches that are far too stronger for any Magical Girl to kill.garfield15 said: iSee said: (other than having to fight monsters for the rest of your life) Yeah, that's kind of, you know, important. If you're gonna make a wish, it better be worth something that is worth putting your life on the line for the rest of your life for it. I was thinking the same thing. I kept looking thinking "Shit, that's a really important part of the picture. Can't just dismiss the importance of the 'fighting monsters for the rest of your life' part of the deal" It's like making a deal with the devil Devil: I'll give you anything you want. Any wish can be granted. Me: yeah yeah that's nice... What's this in the small print about my immortal soul? Devil: Oh, you can just ignore that. It's not important. O_o You have to think her that once you kill off many witches won't their comrades who may be stronger come to avenge them? Aaaaaah, more theories popping up in my head, although all speculations. |
Jan 23, 2011 3:05 PM
#273
>One character dies >THIS IS DARK AND DEEP Also, inb4MamipullsAizen |
Jan 23, 2011 4:26 PM
#274
Well, that sure was delightfull. This show is probably the result of Kamina and the devil smoking something wrong together. It's just that awesome. |
Jan 23, 2011 4:28 PM
#275
LordMarluxia said: >One character dies >THIS IS DARK AND DEEP Also, inb4MamipullsAizen Somehow I think the dense saturation of faust references, subject matter considerably darker than what would be expected in a mahou shojo show, and the method in which they gruesomely killed her, getting the point across entirely without directly choosing to show the most severely gory moments might have played a role in this analysis. Honestly. You can't tell me that this isn't significantly darker and deeper than shugo chara. Try and keep in mind what it's dark and deep relative too. It's a genre primarily targeted at females age six to twelve and they made it a particularly gritty seinen, using the themes of the genre to further juxtapose its' dark and deep elements. Heck, even comparing it to nanoha, the darkest themes were implied bad parenting late in the first season, and disability in the second season. No one died, the victim of bad parenting was freed from the bad parental figure and the disabled person regained her ability to walk. Nanoha's considered one of the more adult mahou shojo's and it's still nowhere near the ballpark that this show has displayed, and took much longer to build up to the little darkness it had. Three episodes in and we're speculating about deals with the devil, looking up german legends, suspecting the cute mascot of being demonic in nature, or possibly some manner of djinn. We've seen a suicide attempt, an imperfect family, a disabled boy who, rather than being happy and cheerful despite his inability, has legitimately had his life destroyed by his condition. We're questioning everything and aren't even sure who's a bad guy and who's not. What part of this sounds like you're dealing with a standard mahou shojo that doesn't have significantly more darkness and depth than one would expect? |
Jan 23, 2011 5:40 PM
#276
Gangler said: I must reply to this one.Somehow I think the dense saturation of faust references, subject matter considerably darker than what would be expected in a mahou shojo show, and the method in which they gruesomely killed her, getting the point across entirely without directly choosing to show the most severely gory moments might have played a role in this analysis. Honestly. You can't tell me that this isn't significantly darker and deeper than shugo chara. Try and keep in mind what it's dark and deep relative too. It's a genre primarily targeted at females age six to twelve and they made it a particularly gritty seinen, using the themes of the genre to further juxtapose its' dark and deep elements. Heck, even comparing it to nanoha, the darkest themes were implied bad parenting late in the first season, and disability in the second season. No one died, the victim of bad parenting was freed from the bad parental figure and the disabled person regained her ability to walk. Nanoha's considered one of the more adult mahou shojo's and it's still nowhere near the ballpark that this show has displayed, and took much longer to build up to the little darkness it had. Three episodes in and we're speculating about deals with the devil, looking up german legends, suspecting the cute mascot of being demonic in nature, or possibly some manner of djinn. We've seen a suicide attempt, an imperfect family, a disabled boy who, rather than being happy and cheerful despite his inability, has legitimately had his life destroyed by his condition. We're questioning everything and aren't even sure who's a bad guy and who's not. What part of this sounds like you're dealing with a standard mahou shojo that doesn't have significantly more darkness and depth than one would expect? Salutation for putting in words what some of us have thought. What we are looking for in this anime, is not at the cliche stuff like friendship, but a deep introspection of all the characters and ourselves, as in our human nature. We are also willing to fundamentally ask and question why witches are made of grief; and how they relate to the "dark" and uneasy side of human nature; the opposite goes to those magical girls. Heck, I cant verify that at face value. Also, I cant trust the word dark. After all, it is just a word invented by the society to describe an illusion that they do not want to see. Just like the words "Right" and "Wrong". All I could say that this anime is worthy of analysis, up till this point; I could already imagine some scholarly articles that could be written using this anime. So Gen, don't disappoint us, do it better than Saya no Uta. Will post the rest of my replies later in the day. |
desolatoJan 24, 2011 8:23 AM
I hate myself. That is my philosophy. |
Jan 23, 2011 8:18 PM
#277
To the people who are saying that Mami might still be alive due to her wish. That cant be true. Mami clearly said that she didnt get to actually make a wish, so she simply became a magic girl instead of dying where she was. Unless for some reason she simply said "I want to live" or something....then who knows what twisted way someone could interrept what she said Also, about who is stronger between Mami and Homura. There has been no indication that Homura would be stronger than Mami. In fact, its the opposite. Mami has relentlessly put off the aura that she is stronger than Homura, and not to mention she was able to bind her. But my point is that there is nothing in the slightest that would make it seem Homura was stronger. Anyway I would not be surprised if she gets resurected. After all, Madoka still needs to make a wish and she basically wanted to become like Mami, so it wouldnt be surprising at all if she rezzed her. Also about Mami saying something in the preview. That doesnt mean anything at all. But there was one thing that puzzled me. How come when Mami shot her *Finale* weapon. It only punctured the little doll? Just like a bullet from her regular guns did? I mean thats a big ass bullet that must have been shot from that gun and I would have thought it would have completely obliterated the doll |
SuperluccixJan 23, 2011 8:42 PM
Jan 23, 2011 10:08 PM
#278
Superluccix said: Yeah that too confuses me rather a lot. Why was it a string instead of mega cannon like Gundam Wing had from Wing Gundam? (just pointing out a example of beam width and intensity)But there was one thing that puzzled me. How come when Mami shot her *Finale* weapon. It only punctured the little doll? Just like a bullet from her regular guns did? I mean thats a big ass bullet that must have been shot from that gun and I would have thought it would have completely obliterated the doll |
Jan 24, 2011 5:32 AM
#279
Yumekichi11 said: Another reference eh, but also a reference to Faust: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mephisto_(1981_film)This is what bothers me, Kyubey has no feelings towards the sadness of Madoka and Sayaka. Found something interesting about the ED. Essentially, we see Madoka walking past the shapes of Sayaka, Hitomi, Mami and Homura... Homura turns around raising her hand as if she was trying to call out to Madoka, holding her back. But Madoka starts to run, faster and faster, into the darkness. At the end, in a fast zoomout, we see how Madoka is in the eye of Mephisto, which the following pic proves: I suspect that the meat grinder works like this: A victim contracts with Kyubey for a wish and gains the soul gem. The soul gem contaminates automatically, even if the girl doesn't use magic. And if the gem is polluted too much, a MG turns into a witch herself. So, all MGs are forced to fight witches merely to stay alive. The bigger the soul gem, the higher is the spoilage, and so a powerful MG needs to collect more Grief Seeds to purify her gem and stay a MG. This also fits with what Miki said that MGs are in competition with each other: If your own soul gem is dangerously polluted, you won't accept if other MGs try for the same witch. And it's stable: If there's no witches to defeat (and so, no chance to purify your soul gem), soon there will be new witches by default pollution. Maybe - and this would be the most gruesome form, and it's obviously at least not unthinkable - it might even cause MGs to fight between each other. It's like a drug racket, a cannibalizing pyramid scheme without escape. If my suspicion is mostly on target, the only correct decision is to STAY AWAY, or maybe try to somehow break up the racket. Not to join it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mephisto_(novel) Take note that this film is not exactly Goethe's Faust, but rather a derivative of it. Also, an except: Faust, and the adjective Faustian, are often used to describe an arrangement in which an ambitious person surrenders moral integrity in order to achieve power and success: the proverbial "deal with the devil". Madoka herself is still not Faustian by default....yet. She is still the humble, pure and innocent girl that trends on the naive side. She wants to help people, and she just wishes for that, no other things included. But be it that she wants to help others because she wants to boost her ego, or that she genuinely wants to help (but it could be argued that it is still a manifestation of her own ego -that would fall within the purview of the conundrums of philosophy.) (kudos if you know who i am minicking) With this said, remember what Mani commented about helping someone to Sayaka. The two sentences, although the results are the same, they are in fact different as i have pointed on the above mentioned paragraph. If I allow my imagination to run wild, I would have probably thought that madoka herself has fallen herself into an endless stream of "tragedy", as nicely put in the ending. If i remember this show's catchphrase: It is about listening to other people's perceptive. I think this has a connection with listening to your own perceptive as well, hence my statements. And i am interested how witches, manifestation of grief and curse, can be made from magical girls, symbolism of hope and dignity. To think of this means that we need to think about the innate change in our magical girls. Just as an interest through in this paragraph, nothing to be taken seriously here. PS: Is anyone familiar with the philosopher Nietzsche, or even better, familiar with his works? I am asking this question, because i want to see things from his concepts, and scarcely familiar with his works. Yumekichi11 said: I am thinking about the laser mechanism that she uses for her final weapon. A laser beam that focus a strong stream of photons that cuts materials. A short bust of Class 4 laser? (Just my imagination, nothing to take seriously.) Yeah that too confuses me rather a lot. Why was it a string instead of mega cannon like Gundam Wing had from Wing Gundam? (just pointing out a example of beam width and intensity) darkerealm said: Damm, lucky you. I was scared by its apparent cuteness (at least to my perceptive) but its potential lethality. Because Charlotte the witch is so cute, I don't feel as sad as I should over the death of Mami. And because there's a possibility Madoka might just use her wish to revive Mami. I was actually quite perplexed. Kyubey doesn't seem too upset over Mami's death. |
desolatoJan 24, 2011 8:29 AM
I hate myself. That is my philosophy. |
Jan 24, 2011 5:42 AM
#280
Superluccix said: To the people who are saying that Mami might still be alive due to her wish. That cant be true. Mami clearly said that she didnt get to actually make a wish Not true, she said she didn't have much time to think about her wish. Also it was clearly stated that you must make a wish first in order to become a magical girl. |
Jan 24, 2011 6:04 AM
#281
seishi-sama said: Not true, she said she didn't have much time to think about her wish. Also it was clearly stated that you must make a wish first in order to become a magical girl. Consider: Mani is dying on the road. Desirable (Freedom) level of -X pts, with dX/dt being negative (lets not bother about the mathematical expression), and X tending towards infinity. Kyubey is there. Choice: Mani's wish. In essence, Mani's wish is a mathematical operator. Freedom is essentially a multiplication of Ability and action. She has two choices (actions) , both giving another 2 different set of algebraic notation, while ability is another set of algebraic notation) let Ability be f(x) and action be f(y). Freedom, X= f(x)f(y). Let Mani's wish to survive be A. Let A' be the negation of A. If A, then result computes that she will survive to live another day, but she has to live as a puella magi. Desirable level of -X' pts, where X is an integer, and X'>X. If A', then computed result results in her not surviving the car accident and going unsatisfied with life. Desirable level tending to negative infinity points, assuming that Mani finds death ultimately undesirable at this point. Free Will? Not in this case. You get the point through. (Damm, if i could write in mathematical notation here) |
desolatoJan 24, 2011 8:27 AM
I hate myself. That is my philosophy. |
Jan 24, 2011 7:33 AM
#282
endtime said: At the moment, it seems like every character is Faust, in a way. I think this might be what they were going for. What's with all the Faust commentary? I know that there was some quoted text earlier but so far, there hasn't been any character development along those lines. The two girls don't have anything to wish for. One of them helpfully points that out. They don't have a deal to make with the devil. They're too innocent at this moment in their lives. They don't have a view of the world with which they can challenge the devil. The magical powers don't appear to be a blessing either. Ask Homura about her feelings on the subject. And Mami has already made her deal. And it was pure and simple -- I don't want to die. That's not a Faustian bargain. Not that I don't find it interesting, I just don't see a deeper connection that warrants all the discussion (based on the developments within the story). nerdyguy said: It is scaringly coincidental, come to think of it. I have also came up with another reference to your statement. Remember Marie Antoinette of France that was beheaded in a guillotine. She said: let them eat cake. I don't think that there is any proof that she actually said any such thing. However, what is attributed to her was to let the peasants eat brioche, which made for a much cleverer bon mot. But I'm not sure how it's appropriate here. Didn't one of the Mahou Shoujo talk about what a witch was after they encountered the first witch? edit: merged posts. |
desolatoJan 24, 2011 8:58 AM
Jan 24, 2011 11:53 AM
#283
After Mami opened up to Madoka, I had already anticipated her possible death. But I was expecting something a bit more formulaic: epic battle, Mami is fatally wounded while protecting the others, cue power-up, bad guy dies, Mami gives a touching speech and dies with a smile on her face. In short, I was expecting a Kamina death scene. But NO, she just gets her friggin' head bitten off and has the rest of her remains masticated up into an unrecognizable puddle of flesh. Bravo, Urobuchi. It's been a while since I was last surprised. |
YuunagiJan 24, 2011 12:58 PM
Jan 24, 2011 12:55 PM
#284
Am I the only one who think this is cute?: :P |
Jan 24, 2011 1:36 PM
#285
Long live Mami! Oh, wait... |
Jan 24, 2011 2:09 PM
#286
Charliehsv said: I guess Madoka is just going to use her wish for Mami next episode. And, Qyubi is just so suspicious. Wouldn't surprise me if that thing ends up being the final boss. {`_ヽ、 l! \``ヽ、 _, -≠ニ了 ! \ ヽ、 , - ' ´< ./ ' >  ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ `¬ / / ', / \ヽ / ∨/ ' ,∨ / // _ _ ', ∨ // /.殺0, /.死0, ', ヘ i { 乂贄ノ 乂鬱ノ i ', l :{ ::}, ヘ l l::.', .::/:::, ', 早く君たちも契約を . l l::::::\ ヽ-'ヽ-'゙ ..::::/:::::::', i l l::::::::::::≧、_ ( 。∀゚ ) ......::_::; イ::::::::::::',. i l l::::::::::::::::l  ̄ 7¬し J  ̄i´ .l:::::::::::::::', l //::::::::::::::::l /::::::::| |:: ' ' l l::::::::::::::::i. l . i i::::::::::::::::::l .i:::::::::::し ⌒J i l::::::::::::::::l. l ___ .l l:::::::::::::::: :l l:::::::;:::::::::::::l / .l .l:::::::::::::::::i. l ___ ゝ、_ =ニ¬l l:::::::::::::::::::l l::::::ヘ::::::::::::l .i ト、 .}:::::::::::::::::l├¬冖冖つ ゙ >  ̄`ヽ、`ヽ、::::::::::::: :ト、 l::::::::::i:::::::::::l. / >"<}:::::::::::::::::l }ー==彡 '' Same thoughts here. |
Jan 24, 2011 3:41 PM
#287
leti_ said: Am I the only one who think this is cute?: :P Btw, nice art. Japan made? |
I hate myself. That is my philosophy. |
Jan 24, 2011 4:08 PM
#288
leti_ said: Am I the only one who think this is cute?: :P Nice fan artwork! Charlotte is about as cute and cunning as the mascot of the show =D |
Jan 24, 2011 6:34 PM
#289
0_0 WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN but seriously, was not expecting this this early in. But what the hell's up with Kyubei still smiling while evrything's going down? Now I need to watch something super happy or something. Also, epic ED is epic. |
<i>When all else is lost, the future still remains</i> |
Jan 24, 2011 6:47 PM
#290
leti_ said: Am I the only one who think this is cute?: :P Certainly not. :D Charlotte is just about the perfect combination of sugary cuteness and absolute nightmare fuel. The designwork on the witches and their helpers so far is superb. |
Jan 24, 2011 7:08 PM
#291
Wow. And also, I agree with the consensus that Kyubey is most likely evil. Kyubey: Become a mahou shoujo~ *Very terrifying witch attacks* Kyubey: Become a mahou shoujo~ *Mami gets killed* Kyubey: Become a mahou shoujo~ His expression or attitude didn't even change. He wasn't even affected by Mami's death. There is no way he is a good creature. |
Jan 24, 2011 7:51 PM
#292
I just want to ask. I know everyone is creeped out that Kyubey was still smiling but..... can Kyubey stop smiling? I don't remember Kyubey every making an expression besides a small. Kyubey doesn't talk either. Couldn't it be possible that Kyubey just can't control it's mouth? |
Jan 24, 2011 8:21 PM
#293
Mockman said: endtime said: At the moment, it seems like every character is Faust, in a way. I think this might be what they were going for. What's with all the Faust commentary? I know that there was some quoted text earlier but so far, there hasn't been any character development along those lines. The two girls don't have anything to wish for. One of them helpfully points that out. They don't have a deal to make with the devil. They're too innocent at this moment in their lives. They don't have a view of the world with which they can challenge the devil. The magical powers don't appear to be a blessing either. Ask Homura about her feelings on the subject. And Mami has already made her deal. And it was pure and simple -- I don't want to die. That's not a Faustian bargain. Not that I don't find it interesting, I just don't see a deeper connection that warrants all the discussion (based on the developments within the story). It actually is more connected to Faust legend than you think, let me explain. You stated that Madoka and Sayaka are too innocent and pure, and I assume you have the conclusion of that they cannot be Faust. However in Faust, Faust and the devil are not the only characters in the story. As how I see it, Madoka plays the role of Gretchen, the most purest and innocent girl that was deceived by Faust using the Devil's power and have her life ruined as a result. Doesn't that sound familiar? Even though we are not sure what is going to happen, but I believe alot of us have the feeling that if Madoka becomes a Mahou Shoujo, it's won't be as simple and happy like the other shows. And taking hints from the ending song, how Madoka started running into darkest and the Devil's eye after she transformed into a Mahou Shoujo. We can see the roles play out like this: Mami assumes the role of Faust who makes the contract with Kyubey (devil) and becomes a Mahou Shoujo. Because in Faust, the contract that Faust has with the devil granted him knowledge and MAGICAL POWER. And in the series how Mami is trying to make Madoka into a Mahou Shoujo is similar to Faust seducing Gretchen, even though we see Kyubey eagerly trying to persuade Madoka of becoming a Mahou Shoujo, but Mami however never once said DON"T DO IT MADOKA', she merely told her to think about her wish carefully. And taking hints from all the signs that we have seen so far, having Madoka making a contract with Kyubey is definitely not going to be all sugar and flower. Much like Gretchen, she could even have her life ruined like how Homura stated in the first episode "If you treasure your current life, don't try to change it or else you might lose them all" or something along that line. Conclusion Kyubey is still evil ----> /(OwO)\ |
Jan 24, 2011 9:03 PM
#294
I hope Mami stays dead the depressing atmosphere is relaxing. |
Jan 24, 2011 9:18 PM
#295
Such a sudden death, but this is supposed to be a dark series... Mami played the role of mentor for Madoka and Sayaka. Storylines are never kind to mentors, look at the Star Wars series as an example... I do suspect that someone will eventually become a fallen witch due to the nature of tragedy... since the one who has the most to lose will fall the hardest... or the most emotional person tends to be the most vulnerable to falling into despair... Also, Kyubey is offering the wish quite readily. I suspect that there is a price to be paid later for the wish... Maybe this is part of the reason why Akemi was trying to kill him... |
Sore wa himitsu desu. |
Jan 24, 2011 9:28 PM
#296
Is there anything in faust to indicate that by wishing for kamijo to be healthy again, he would somehow be tainted by the demonic power? |
Jan 24, 2011 9:53 PM
#297
Gangler said: Not sure about that one friend but I do know that by wishing for someone in Faust, it ended up in only trickery and elimination of that person's dear ones such as Gretchen's brother and mother. Is there anything in faust to indicate that by wishing for kamijo to be healthy again, he would somehow be tainted by the demonic power? I think that the devil does not like you wishing for others but yourself because that is a vice of being selfish. Devils love anything negative including death but Kyubey did not show that part of him yet. Being emotionless just shows us that either a)he has seen it too many times or b)he loves it so much he contains all the pleasure within him never to reveal to anyone except to his own self for his own pleasure. That's why make something like being rich as a wish and it shall be granted but make it to heal someone and it's only a temporary thing that will fade away eventually. |
Jan 24, 2011 11:11 PM
#298
Mockman said: nerdyguy said: It is scaringly coincidental, come to think of it. I have also came up with another reference to your statement. Remember Marie Antoinette of France that was beheaded in a guillotine. She said: let them eat cake. I don't think that there is any proof that she actually said any such thing. However, what is attributed to her was to let the peasants eat brioche, which made for a much cleverer bon mot. But I'm not sure how it's appropriate here. Didn't one of the Mahou Shoujo talk about what a witch was after they encountered the first witch? edit: merged posts. I will reply to this section first. You certainly got everything right here. It is wrongly attributed to Marie Antoinette by popular culture. Also, no deep meanings here, it is meant as a pun in reply to the statement, but not to the anime. I am just drawing references to the no head and the talk about cake, nothing deeper, just for fun. Hope that clarified your thoughts. Secondly, episode 2 explained a bit on the nature of witches and puella magi. But somehow, it is uncompleted. So how grief seeds are from? Why are they symbolism of curse? For this, it is better to wait until the story gets on to its main point, ie no point speculating. Also, I don't think reference to the story is as simple as associating a Madoka character with a character from Faust, come to think of it. The reference to the story may be the concept in general. But that is my take (or speculation). Who knows, mabye that cute little "kitty" may be that devil. Yumekichi11 said: Gangler said: Not sure about that one friend but I do know that by wishing for someone in Faust, it ended up in only trickery and elimination of that person's dear ones such as Gretchen's brother and mother. Is there anything in faust to indicate that by wishing for kamijo to be healthy again, he would somehow be tainted by the demonic power? I think that the devil does not like you wishing for others but yourself because that is a vice of being selfish. Devils love anything negative including death but Kyubey did not show that part of him yet. Being emotionless just shows us that either a)he has seen it too many times or b)he loves it so much he contains all the pleasure within him never to reveal to anyone except to his own self for his own pleasure. That's why make something like being rich as a wish and it shall be granted but make it to heal someone and it's only a temporary thing that will fade away eventually. Wishing to help someone else also contributes to your ego, which is somehow part of selfishness. Sayaka's wish to help her dearest friend, eh? |
nerdyguyJan 24, 2011 11:31 PM
I hate myself. That is my philosophy. |
Jan 25, 2011 3:23 AM
#299
DenjaX said: T___________T WAAAH I WANT MY MAMI *pun intended Is this what a mahou shoujo is like? DANG This is my first time watching a mahou shoujo. I've always thought that mahou shoujo is all about cutesy and sweets. Lol, this is not an usual mahou shoujo anime. This one is completely 180°. Cardcaptor sakura is what a MS anime SHOULD look like. |
Jan 25, 2011 9:12 AM
#300
First time in a long time I've seen an episode rating on MAL have a 95% rating above 4 with a three digit number amount of votes. Random comment is random. |
More topics from this board
Poll: » Mahou Shoujo Madoka★Magica Episode 8 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )stevewiess01 - Feb 24, 2011 |
634 |
by Leftu
»»
Nov 18, 1:17 PM |
|
Poll: » Mahou Shoujo Madoka★Magica Episode 7 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )stevewiess01 - Feb 17, 2011 |
421 |
by Leftu
»»
Nov 18, 12:53 PM |
|
Poll: » Mahou Shoujo Madoka★Magica Episode 10 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )stevewiess01 - Mar 10, 2011 |
709 |
by Messed_Pie
»»
Nov 13, 4:05 PM |
|
Poll: » Mahou Shoujo Madoka★Magica Episode 2 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Kuro4735 - Jan 13, 2011 |
328 |
by honeybee4806
»»
Nov 3, 8:07 AM |
|
» Click Bait!!!!!!Jai_akash - Oct 27 |
27 |
by aurora_yuuki
»»
Nov 1, 4:33 AM |