Sword Art Online (light novel)
| Oh what a useless thread to bump. But I feel that people who need specific "reasons" for somebody to like somebody else, have either never been in a relationship before, or are autistic. |
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Red_Keys said: Oh what a useless thread to bump. But I feel that people who need specific "reasons" for somebody to like somebody else, have either never been in a relationship before, or are autistic. You're missing the point. Realistic or not, reasons make for better storytelling. |
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ataraxial said: No they don't.You're missing the point. Realistic or not, reasons make for better storytelling. Actually developing a relationship makes for better story telling. We should be shown, not told. |
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Red_Keys said: ataraxial said: You're missing the point. Realistic or not, reasons make for better storytelling. You're right, they do. Developing a relationship makes for better story telling. Fixed. Stop trying so hard to disagree. No one said anything about being told reasons instead of being shown reasons through development. |
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| because kirito always kind with her.. and kirito is type of a boy that suzuha like.. he's kind, optimist, and bla bla bla.. actually I think at the first I think suguha try to not like kirito but since she know they're not related in blood she cant help it anymore.. she love him.. thats it lol XD btw I think there must be very many different kind of thinking from other guy.. so if you really that curious just think about it alone.. and find some good reason that make you satisfied.. or you just want to know what other people thinking about this ? :o |
| Because she's seen the D. She knows what to expect. |
| Trying to figure out why girls like the lead character of a harem is comparable to finding the meaning of life, so it's pointless to dwell on it. In the end, it's just the writer who just can't write good romance. Remember kids, just being nice is all you need to score several girls in one year. That is the first role of creating a harem. |
SagaraYuzuru said: Trying to figure out why girls like the lead character of a harem is comparable to finding the meaning of life, so it's pointless to dwell on it. In the end, it's just the writer who just can't write good romance. Remember kids, just being nice is all you need to score several girls in one year. That is the first role of creating a harem. It's not a harem. ataraxial said: Red_Keys said: ataraxial said: You're missing the point. Realistic or not, reasons make for better storytelling. You're right, they do. Developing a relationship makes for better story telling. Fixed. Stop trying so hard to disagree. No one said anything about being told reasons instead of being shown reasons through development. We already told you the LN's point of view and anime, unrealistic or not, its what happens in the universe of SAO, if you don't like it that's your problem with your suspension of disbelief. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Immahnoob said: It's not a harem. No, I'm pretty sure that when more than three girls is after the main character counts as a harem. The only difference that SAO makes is that it still grows even after he picked his girl. To be honest, it seems rather pointless. |
SagaraYuzuru said: Immahnoob said: It's not a harem. No, I'm pretty sure that when more than three girls is after the main character counts as a harem. The only difference that SAO makes is that it still grows even after he picked his girl. To be honest, it seems rather pointless. Problem is that EVERY other girl gave up when they realised his feelings. |
| bcuz sao is sexist |
| I am important. I have a girlfriend. Check out my podcast |
| ask to her |
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SagaraYuzuru said: Immahnoob said: It's not a harem. No, I'm pretty sure that when more than three girls is after the main character counts as a harem. The only difference that SAO makes is that it still grows even after he picked his girl. To be honest, it seems rather pointless. First, genres or demographics do not express the anime quality. Second, no, that's not the only thing that matters for it to be a Harem. First, he has to be with the girls all the time (yes, all the time, exceptions like one episode out of 24 does not make it not a harem), a harem anime can also be harem without them loving the protagonist too. So yeah, your argument is invalid, this isn't a harem because they do not surround him, it's a love square (you can add more, it won't change anything), even if you can call it that, there's no actual relationship other than friendship between Kirito/Kazuto and the other girls, they stopped trying long time ago too. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| Love is illogical |
| sexual incest in nisomonogatari - no one bats an eye romance incest in SAO - everyone loses their minds |
Ghostony said: Love itself is illogical Ghostony, our Salvador Mundi, always coming with the answer. From off-topic to on-topic and beyond. True this, I went off topic, but yeah, love has no explanation, mostly chemical reactions but that's still not enough to explain it fully. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| Wow, haven't seen Immahnoob in a while, i think. |
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Nidstang said: Wow, haven't seen Immahnoob in a while, i think. A week. Anime discussion threads are my nemesis, it seems, I get banned only from these. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Immahnoob said: Nidstang said: Wow, haven't seen Immahnoob in a while, i think. A week. Felt longer though. |
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Nidstang said: Immahnoob said: Nidstang said: Wow, haven't seen Immahnoob in a while, i think. A week. Felt longer though. D'awwww, you missed me? |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Immahnoob said: Nidstang said: Immahnoob said: Nidstang said: Wow, haven't seen Immahnoob in a while, i think. A week. Felt longer though. D'awwww, you missed me? I guess I did. Happens sometimes with random forum-users. |
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Immahnoob said: We already told you the LN's point of view and anime, unrealistic or not, its what happens in the universe of SAO, if you don't like it that's your problem with your suspension of disbelief. I was actually quite satisfied with this thread. Someone else bumped it. In fact, if you really thought the issue was resolved, you wouldn't have replied - that's how threads are kept alive in case you haven't noticed. Anyways, it's definitely not my problem that the LN and anime are unrealistic. That's a failing of the LN and the anime. |
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| Realism does not equal quality. Also that's not my point, the realism you should expect is the realism of the said universe. That's what I'm saying by "suspension of disbelief". It's like going to a puppet show to watch the strings. And yes, this is a quote, I can't remember who said it. No, don't try to blame me now, you were not satisfied, I can say that from your yesterday comment, I know for certain that this issue was resolved, you're the one that doesn't believe it. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Immahnoob said: First, genres or demographics do not express the anime quality. I'm well aware of that. I didn't say harem in general is stupid. What I meant was "what's the point of growing a harem if the main girls is going to be picked in no time?". Immahnoob said: Second, no, that's not the only thing that matters for it to be a Harem. First, he has to be with the girls all the time (yes, all the time, exceptions like one episode out of 24 does not make it not a harem), a harem anime can also be harem without them loving the protagonist too. Okay, now you are just overcomplicating this. The concept of harem is just simply multiple girls falling in love with one guy. Nothing more, nothing less. There are no rules that tells us what is a harem and what is not. While it's true that SAO isn't a harem anime, it doesn't cover up the fact that a harem exist in the show. I mean, think about it. Of all the girls who are not older than 20 or younger than 13, who are not intressted in Kirito in any way? You might not see this as a harem, but in my eyes, it's clear as day. Immahnoob said: So yeah, your argument is invalid, this isn't a harem because they do not surround him, it's a love square (you can add more, it won't change anything), even if you can call it that, there's no actual relationship other than friendship between Kirito/Kazuto and the other girls, they stopped trying long time ago too. That's not new. If the other girls know the protagonist's true feelings, there are only two options left for them: Reamin friends with their lost love or go yandere. |
| I only added that because most people don't understand that, there are exceptions though. "In your eyes" really doesn't matter, objectively, this is not a harem, of course there are rules, otherwise we'd have to call everything with two female characters a harem. If there is a harem in the anime the anime itself would be a harem. And harem does not mean they have to love the protagonist, once again, that's a love triangle-square-cube-w/e you want. I don't think you've ever heard of NTR, also, feelings change in time. Let's not talk about this thought, what you said is quite irrelevant because those are not the only things that could happen. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Immahnoob said: I only added that because most people don't understand that, there are exceptions though. "In your eyes" really doesn't matter, objectively, this is not a harem, of course there are rules, otherwise we'd have to call everything with two female characters a harem. If there is a harem in the anime the anime itself would be a harem. And harem does not mean they have to love the protagonist, once again, that's a love triangle-square-cube-w/e you want. I don't think you've ever heard of NTR, also, feelings change in time. Let's not talk about this thought, what you said is quite irrelevant because those are not the only things that could happen. My point is that the concept of harem is so simple that you can see it when you do. If you see a fight in a movie, it counts as action, even if it ended in ten seconds. The movie might not be classified as an action movie, but the fact an action scene exist cannot be denied. If there is love between two characters, then it’s romance, even if it's badly developed. If a magnitude of girls show interest in a single male character, its harem. It's really that simple. Now, "In my eyes" actually matter more than you think. I see it as a harem because that's how I recognize it, but you don't because you see it differently. You probably will never agree with me as far as I'm concerned, so what we are really doing is just going around full circle trying to prove that "my opinion is right", which cannot be settled by the two of us. So there is really no point trying to convince me that I'm wrong, or the magnitude of people who also think that way. |
SagaraYuzuru said: Immahnoob said: I only added that because most people don't understand that, there are exceptions though. "In your eyes" really doesn't matter, objectively, this is not a harem, of course there are rules, otherwise we'd have to call everything with two female characters a harem. If there is a harem in the anime the anime itself would be a harem. And harem does not mean they have to love the protagonist, once again, that's a love triangle-square-cube-w/e you want. I don't think you've ever heard of NTR, also, feelings change in time. Let's not talk about this thought, what you said is quite irrelevant because those are not the only things that could happen. My point is that the concept of harem is so simple that you can see it when you do. If you see a fight in a movie, it counts as action, even if it ended in ten seconds. The movie might not be classified as an action movie, but the fact an action scene exist cannot be denied. If there is love between two characters, then it’s romance, even if it's badly developed. If a magnitude of girls show interest in a single male character, its harem. It's really that simple. Now, "In my eyes" actually matter more than you think. I see it as a harem because that's how I recognize it, but you don't because you see it differently. You probably will never agree with me as far as I'm concerned, so what we are really doing is just going around full circle trying to prove that "my opinion is right", which cannot be settled by the two of us. So there is really no point trying to convince me that I'm wrong, or the magnitude of people who also think that way. Objectively you are wrong. You can't see the laws of physics in any other way, I am sorry. Jaimes said: Immahnoob said: Ghostony said: Love itself is illogical Ghostony, our Salvador Mundi, always coming with the answer. From off-topic to on-topic and beyond. True this, I went off topic, but yeah, love has no explanation, mostly chemical reactions but that's still not enough to explain it fully. You can't be serious. There's only one major catalyst behind every anime romance, save very, very few exceptions: Money, or fandom. Wich translate the same way in the end. Irrelevant. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Immahnoob said: Realism does not equal quality. Also that's not my point, the realism you should expect is the realism of the said universe. That's what I'm saying by "suspension of disbelief". It's like going to a puppet show to watch the strings. And yes, this is a quote, I can't remember who said it. No, don't try to blame me now, you were not satisfied, I can say that from your yesterday comment, I know for certain that this issue was resolved, you're the one that doesn't believe it. Let me rephrase: it's a failing of the LN and the anime to have such low-quality development when it comes to relationships and how they came to be. I was and still am satisfied with this thread. Are you seriously going to try to argue that I'm not? And yes, it is your fault. If you didn't want to keep this thread alive you won't be posting in it. |
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| No, it's not, you came in rampaging on how you're not satisfied and after I as captain obvious said you are not satisfied you came in claiming you are satisfied. What...? And you were talking about realism, now all of a sudden you changed to development but we don't even know what development means to you. You just called it low-quality without giving reasons for why. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
ataraxial said: Actually, this thread is asking for specific reasons.No one said anything about being told reasons instead of being shown reasons through development. And I said "reasons" have nothing to do with it. Can you "explain" why, and list "reasons" why you liked whoever your first crush was? Was there a defining, specific, end all be all, distinct moment where you decided, "oh hey, due to these specific reasons, I like this person now!" No. Human beings don't work that way. |
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Red_Keys said: ataraxial said: No one said anything about being told reasons instead of being shown reasons through development. Actually, this thread is asking for specific reasons. And I said "reasons" have nothing to do with it. Can you "explain" why, and list "reasons" why you liked whoever your first crush was? Was there a defining, specific, end all be all, distinct moment where you decided, "oh hey, due to these specific reasons, I like this person now!" No. Human beings don't work that way. You're confusing two things: conscious choice and reasons. Of course you don't consciously decide based on a list of reasons to like someone. However, that doesn't mean that there aren't reasons for liking someone, perhaps reasons that you aren't consciously aware of. Or do you really think that who you like is randomly determined and has nothing to do with the person you like? Besides, you're misunderstanding my question - which you would have noticed had you simply read the first page of this thread where it gets answered. The general idea is that the anime failed to make clear that Suguha did not in fact like Kirito all along. Instead, she wanted to get closer as siblings and got confused when she felt jealous about Kirito wanting to spend his time visiting Asuna. Then she actually fell in love with him inside ALO. I never wanted a list of reasons for why she liked him - I was interested in the story of how it came to be, something that the anime did not make clear at all. @Immahnoob I'm in a good mood, so I'll entertain you for a bit. What, supposedly, am I so unsatisfied about? |
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| About this relationship having no reasons, or mostly, reasons you can't see. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Immahnoob said: About this relationship having no reasons, or mostly, reasons you can't see. Well I do think it's unfortunate that the anime made it seem like Suguha had always liked him when that wasn't the case. More development (or simply making it clear that Suguha only really fell in love with Kirito inside ALO) would have made the anime better. That's all. These conclusions were reached in the first two pages of this thread though, so I am in fact satisfied with this thread. |
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| And she started liking him before ALO, she started having feelings for him when he got trapped in SAO but she didn't think it was love at the time, then she fallen in love with "Kirito" not "Kazuto" in ALO, when she found out it was Kazuto she finally understood that she loved him. I don't know how you missed this though, it was obvious that she thought of Kazuto in a different way but was refraining herself because of the brother barrier. Finding out they were cousins only added oil to the fire. The anime is good enough, it sold like hot bread (cakes, whatever, we use "bread" in Romanian). Good to hear you're satisfied. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| She didn't actually like him before ALO though. The anime made it seem like that, but she actually just wanted to get closer as siblings and mistook those feelings as liking him. Also popularity =/= quality. |
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| She found out about him being her cousin before ALO... She didn't misinterpret her feelings, she does love him. Never said that popularity /=/ quality. The only thing that matters for writing is success, as long as SAO is successful it can be the worst piece of shit imaginable (in your opinion), it will sell and it will get more seasons. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Immahnoob said: She found out about him being her cousin before ALO... She didn't misinterpret her feelings, she does love him. Never said that popularity /=/ quality. The only thing that matters for writing is success, as long as SAO is successful it can be the worst piece of shit imaginable (in your opinion), it will sell and it will get more seasons. Check the LN or the first couple pages of this thread. She did misinterpret her feelings. The part about finding out they are cousins made her confused because when they were young they were really close as siblings. |
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| To be fair, Suguha That dance&support sure did make me think that's where it was heading. ..coming from a guy that only has seen the anime adaptation.. |
| sexual incest in nisomonogatari - no one bats an eye romance incest in SAO - everyone loses their minds |
ataraxial said: Immahnoob said: She found out about him being her cousin before ALO... She didn't misinterpret her feelings, she does love him. Never said that popularity /=/ quality. The only thing that matters for writing is success, as long as SAO is successful it can be the worst piece of shit imaginable (in your opinion), it will sell and it will get more seasons. Check the LN or the first couple pages of this thread. She did misinterpret her feelings. The part about finding out they are cousins made her confused because when they were young they were really close as siblings. ssjokg said: Conclusion:Sugu is just a normal teen(if you take out the incest) that cant tell wtf she is feeling about the boy next to her be it Kirito or Kazuto. Huh, you should rewatch the anime. She loves him. Of course, she gets over it like all the other girls do, after all he only sees Asuna, the heroine nobody likes except me. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Immahnoob said: Of course, she gets over it like all the other girls do, after all he only sees Asuna, the heroine nobody likes except me. Aww I'm here with you buddy. Fanboy or not SAO was one of the few anime that left me feel uneasy wanting for more at the last episode. (Clannad, Sakurasou and Code Geass is some other) and yes I love Asuna despite all the hate she's getting. |
Immahnoob said: Huh, you should rewatch the anime. She loves him. Of course, she gets over it like all the other girls do, after all he only sees Asuna, the heroine nobody likes except me. She does fall in love with him eventually. But she hasn't always liked him. Asuna isn't unlikable per se, just kind of generic. |
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| I didn't mean that she always loved him, but in this little timespan, maybe I should edit out my responses, well, who cares. I like her even if she's generic, it's just that a lot of people don't, hehe. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Immahnoob said: Objectively you are wrong. You can't see the laws of physics in any other way, I am sorry. And these "laws" of physics are just in your head. You are just overcomplicating a simple concept. End of story. |
| Maybe because he saved her from dying in the game, helped her out a lot, became her friend, etc? Plus she didn't even realise it was her brother/cousin... Though really it was a relationship doomed to fail before it began, since Kirito is unmistakably in love with Asuna and no-one else :) |
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SagaraYuzuru said: Immahnoob said: Objectively you are wrong. You can't see the laws of physics in any other way, I am sorry. And these "laws" of physics are just in your head. You are just overcomplicating a simple concept. End of story. The "laws of physics" and the "rules of harem". It was an analogy, because both are facts. If you won't believe it that's your problem, be forever ignorant, this has and will never have a harem tag because it is NOT a harem. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| LOL when I was on episode 10 or so I read this topic and thought it said "why does Suguha kill Kirito." I was so upset as that you actually wrote this as a topic title. And now, after finishing the anime, I read it correctly -.-. Anyways yeah. They just had to add incest into this anime |
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