Charlie Kirk, co-founder of Turning Point USA (TPUSA), was assassinated at a during a Utah Valley University event.
| https://www.deseret.com/utah/2025/09/10/charlie-kirk-shot/ Charlie Kirk was shot at an event at Utah Valley University in Orem, Utah on Wednesday. Bystanders report seeing Kirk shot near his neck during a Q&A with students. Donald Trump has personally announced Charlie Kirk is dead. |
vasipi4946Sep 10, 8:26 PM
Mao said: If you have to shit, shit! If you have to fart, fart!  |
| Well, that sucks. Did not agree with the guy at all but he was still young and as far as I know, not accused of anything warranting death. Take it from someone who has spent a lifetime wanting their abusers dead, but that shit eats you up until you are barely a human. I think wishing death on anyone is tragic, not merely because someone may not deserve to die, but that it is such a terrible thing to want in the first place. What tragedies have to befall someone, what shortcomings must one have, to wish murder and death on others? That to me is a tragedy. Life has value, and a good person would be sad if a life is taken, even if it is necessary as in cases of self-defense. Not want it. Refer to my Ursula K. LeGuin quote in my signature. |
"Have we not eaten while another starved? Will you punish us for that? Will you reward us for the virtue of starving while others ate? No man earns punishment, no man earns reward. Free your mind of the idea of deserving, the idea of earning, and you will begin to be able to think.” |
| NO SUSPECT HAS BEEN FOUND |
Mao said: If you have to shit, shit! If you have to fart, fart! |
| It really bothers me how, instead of condemning political violence in general, people are now debating whether it can be justified for certain views or statements. I too was a black sheep for various reasons as a child and I too had edgy thoughts about people who were my abusers or whom I perceived as such. But political violence cannot be normalized by any argument. If you allow it, you open Pandora's box. |
 |
| "politically motivated murder" I feel bad, but Charlie has been shilling for the Republicans for almost a decade. And yet, it what only 2 months after dropping this that he got murdered: While violence is bad, one of the dumbest moves a political commentator could do was get behind Trump on the Epstein case. |
Reply to 149597871
"politically motivated murder"
I feel bad, but Charlie has been shilling for the Republicans for almost a decade. And yet, it what only 2 months after dropping this that he got murdered:
While violence is bad, one of the dumbest moves a political commentator could do was get behind Trump on the Epstein case.
I feel bad, but Charlie has been shilling for the Republicans for almost a decade. And yet, it what only 2 months after dropping this that he got murdered:
While violence is bad, one of the dumbest moves a political commentator could do was get behind Trump on the Epstein case.
| @149597871 If you have to specifically remind someone that you are against violence when you comment on someone's murder, then that already means that you are doing something wrong. |
|
Reply to RobertBobert
It really bothers me how, instead of condemning political violence in general, people are now debating whether it can be justified for certain views or statements. I too was a black sheep for various reasons as a child and I too had edgy thoughts about people who were my abusers or whom I perceived as such. But political violence cannot be normalized by any argument. If you allow it, you open Pandora's box.
| @RobertBobert I'm sure there are a lot of unhinged people actually celebrating this... |
| Anti-aliasing enthusiast |
Reply to JaniSIr
@RobertBobert I'm sure there are a lot of unhinged people actually celebrating this...
| @JaniSIr You don't have to tell me about it. I already know of at least a couple of cases where people got fired for making jokes or endorsing it. DC even canceled an entire comic book series after the author made fun of it. |
|
Reply to RobertBobert
It really bothers me how, instead of condemning political violence in general, people are now debating whether it can be justified for certain views or statements. I too was a black sheep for various reasons as a child and I too had edgy thoughts about people who were my abusers or whom I perceived as such. But political violence cannot be normalized by any argument. If you allow it, you open Pandora's box.
| @RobertBobert It feels odd, but I feel more inclined to say Brian Thompson was deserving of death than Charlie Kirk. I mean yes, Charlie Kirk's words and ideology did hurt people and led to widespread suffering which no doubt contributed to deaths, making the world a worst place. On the other hand, using violence against speech and ideology we disagree is inherently fascist, even if said person in question is a fascist. Deserve is such a dirty word, honestly. Please refer to my forum signature. Obsessing over what is deserved can be damaging to us as human beings. Though I can see the point @149597871 made. While I am fairly sure it was likely a left-leaning individual who loathed Kirk's beliefs, I cannot rule out the possibility it was someone right or center or left who was upset over Epstein. Kirk was a part of the administration. To which yeah? I think if that was the reason, I would have a harder time condemning the murderer. I understand violence, even political violence, when the laws fail us. It is a Ken Rex McElroy situation. Again, we do not know who the shooter is, much less their motivation. Of course, I see some motivations as more sympathetic than others. Also, don't watch the fucking video. I have not, and my life is better for it. |
PeripheralVisionSep 11, 6:31 AM
"Have we not eaten while another starved? Will you punish us for that? Will you reward us for the virtue of starving while others ate? No man earns punishment, no man earns reward. Free your mind of the idea of deserving, the idea of earning, and you will begin to be able to think.” |
Reply to PeripheralVision
@RobertBobert It feels odd, but I feel more inclined to say Brian Thompson was deserving of death than Charlie Kirk. I mean yes, Charlie Kirk's words and ideology did hurt people and led to widespread suffering which no doubt contributed to deaths, making the world a worst place.
On the other hand, using violence against speech and ideology we disagree is inherently fascist, even if said person in question is a fascist.
Deserve is such a dirty word, honestly. Please refer to my forum signature. Obsessing over what is deserved can be damaging to us as human beings.
Though I can see the point @149597871 made. While I am fairly sure it was likely a left-leaning individual who loathed Kirk's beliefs, I cannot rule out the possibility it was someone right or center or left who was upset over Epstein. Kirk was a part of the administration. To which yeah? I think if that was the reason, I would have a harder time condemning the murderer.
I understand violence, even political violence, when the laws fail us. It is a Ken Rex McElroy situation. Again, we do not know who the shooter is, much less their motivation. Of course, I see some motivations as more sympathetic than others.
Also, don't watch the fucking video. I have not, and my life is better for it.
On the other hand, using violence against speech and ideology we disagree is inherently fascist, even if said person in question is a fascist.
Deserve is such a dirty word, honestly. Please refer to my forum signature. Obsessing over what is deserved can be damaging to us as human beings.
Though I can see the point @149597871 made. While I am fairly sure it was likely a left-leaning individual who loathed Kirk's beliefs, I cannot rule out the possibility it was someone right or center or left who was upset over Epstein. Kirk was a part of the administration. To which yeah? I think if that was the reason, I would have a harder time condemning the murderer.
I understand violence, even political violence, when the laws fail us. It is a Ken Rex McElroy situation. Again, we do not know who the shooter is, much less their motivation. Of course, I see some motivations as more sympathetic than others.
Also, don't watch the fucking video. I have not, and my life is better for it.
| @PeripheralVision The words fascist and nazism have long since lost their meaning after people started using it as a label that meant "I think this person's views are bad." And I say this as a person with Jewish roots. As one YouTuber, a black one by the way, said, if you disagree with someone's views, ignore them or prove them wrong. Otherwise, you're just starting a cycle of violence that may eventually come back to haunt you. For my part, I can say that if you think that their words violate any laws, go to court. Violence is not the solution. |
|
Reply to RobertBobert
@PeripheralVision The words fascist and nazism have long since lost their meaning after people started using it as a label that meant "I think this person's views are bad." And I say this as a person with Jewish roots. As one YouTuber, a black one by the way, said, if you disagree with someone's views, ignore them or prove them wrong. Otherwise, you're just starting a cycle of violence that may eventually come back to haunt you. For my part, I can say that if you think that their words violate any laws, go to court. Violence is not the solution.
| @RobertBobert I think the words are apt here. Violence and coercion is intrinsically embedded into the framework of fascism, and one way to condemn something is to describe as the practice of something else that is considered widely bad. Ruling with violence is bad, and it is a tool of fascism. Of course, not all violence arises from a fascist ideology, but that does not render violence of this nature and purpose not fascist in its effects. People should not be living in fear that they will be killed for their views. That is fascistic. Being Jewish does not make you an expert anymore than citing a black youtuber. |
PeripheralVisionSep 11, 6:48 AM
"Have we not eaten while another starved? Will you punish us for that? Will you reward us for the virtue of starving while others ate? No man earns punishment, no man earns reward. Free your mind of the idea of deserving, the idea of earning, and you will begin to be able to think.” |
Reply to PeripheralVision
@RobertBobert I think the words are apt here. Violence and coercion is intrinsically embedded into the framework of fascism, and one way to condemn something is to describe as the practice of something else that is considered widely bad.
Ruling with violence is bad, and it is a tool of fascism. Of course, not all violence arises from a fascist ideology, but that does not render violence of this nature and purpose not fascist in its effects. People should not be living in fear that they will be killed for their views. That is fascistic.
Being Jewish does not make you an expert anymore than citing a black youtuber.
Ruling with violence is bad, and it is a tool of fascism. Of course, not all violence arises from a fascist ideology, but that does not render violence of this nature and purpose not fascist in its effects. People should not be living in fear that they will be killed for their views. That is fascistic.
Being Jewish does not make you an expert anymore than citing a black youtuber.
| @PeripheralVision Violence? To rule by violence? Sorry, what violence did Kirk use and what or who did he rule? If you think you can call anything violence to contrasting that he was a victim of violence, that's not how it works. And yes, don't tell a Jew what fascism is, please. Over 30 of my relatives were killed in the Holocaust just because of their ethnicity. Fascism is a much more dangerous and scary thing than just a person telling you something you don't want to hear. |
RobertBobertSep 11, 7:04 AM
|
Reply to RobertBobert
@PeripheralVision Violence? To rule by violence? Sorry, what violence did Kirk use and what or who did he rule? If you think you can call anything violence to contrasting that he was a victim of violence, that's not how it works. And yes, don't tell a Jew what fascism is, please. Over 30 of my relatives were killed in the Holocaust just because of their ethnicity. Fascism is a much more dangerous and scary thing than just a person telling you something you don't want to hear.
| @RobertBobert I said politically motivated murder was fascistic violence, unless you were referring to me calling Kirk a fascist, which I think is besides the point here? I mean, I think he is because of his far-right political beliefs which call for systemic discrimination against minorities, his attacks on history and alliance with those who wish to destroy history, and all that, but I still do not think that is a justification for actual political violence. It would feel weird to me to discuss in this particular thread whether or not he was a fascist, as if we should be discussing the merits of his murder. You can DM me if you want, but I don't think we should be continuing this sort of discussion in any form. And yes, don't tell a Jew what fascism is, please. ...I am sorry to say, but I was under the impression that Jewish people are not born with a degree in Holocaust Studies, or a degree in political science, or had the final say what a category as broad as "fascism" and "fascist" should include. Of course we would differ, I suppose, but anyway... Being a member of X group does not necessarily make you an expert on a member of X group, especially when multiple groups of people were subjected to fascistic violence throughout history. Listen, I am considered the most stereotypical leftist on the forums, and even you are utilizing identity politics in a way that embarrasses me. Mentioning 30 of your own relatives murdered in a Holocaust here? In this context? What the heck dude? Can't we just agree to disagree because we agree that whatever his political affiliation or label applied to him, it is still murder? |
"Have we not eaten while another starved? Will you punish us for that? Will you reward us for the virtue of starving while others ate? No man earns punishment, no man earns reward. Free your mind of the idea of deserving, the idea of earning, and you will begin to be able to think.” |
Reply to PeripheralVision
@RobertBobert
I said politically motivated murder was fascistic violence, unless you were referring to me calling Kirk a fascist, which I think is besides the point here? I mean, I think he is because of his far-right political beliefs which call for systemic discrimination against minorities, his attacks on history and alliance with those who wish to destroy history, and all that, but I still do not think that is a justification for actual political violence.
It would feel weird to me to discuss in this particular thread whether or not he was a fascist, as if we should be discussing the merits of his murder. You can DM me if you want, but I don't think we should be continuing this sort of discussion in any form.
...I am sorry to say, but I was under the impression that Jewish people are not born with a degree in Holocaust Studies, or a degree in political science, or had the final say what a category as broad as "fascism" and "fascist" should include. Of course we would differ, I suppose, but anyway...
Being a member of X group does not necessarily make you an expert on a member of X group, especially when multiple groups of people were subjected to fascistic violence throughout history. Listen, I am considered the most stereotypical leftist on the forums, and even you are utilizing identity politics in a way that embarrasses me.
Mentioning 30 of your own relatives murdered in a Holocaust here? In this context? What the heck dude? Can't we just agree to disagree because we agree that whatever his political affiliation or label applied to him, it is still murder?
I said politically motivated murder was fascistic violence, unless you were referring to me calling Kirk a fascist, which I think is besides the point here? I mean, I think he is because of his far-right political beliefs which call for systemic discrimination against minorities, his attacks on history and alliance with those who wish to destroy history, and all that, but I still do not think that is a justification for actual political violence.
It would feel weird to me to discuss in this particular thread whether or not he was a fascist, as if we should be discussing the merits of his murder. You can DM me if you want, but I don't think we should be continuing this sort of discussion in any form.
And yes, don't tell a Jew what fascism is, please.
...I am sorry to say, but I was under the impression that Jewish people are not born with a degree in Holocaust Studies, or a degree in political science, or had the final say what a category as broad as "fascism" and "fascist" should include. Of course we would differ, I suppose, but anyway...
Being a member of X group does not necessarily make you an expert on a member of X group, especially when multiple groups of people were subjected to fascistic violence throughout history. Listen, I am considered the most stereotypical leftist on the forums, and even you are utilizing identity politics in a way that embarrasses me.
Mentioning 30 of your own relatives murdered in a Holocaust here? In this context? What the heck dude? Can't we just agree to disagree because we agree that whatever his political affiliation or label applied to him, it is still murder?
| @PeripheralVision This is why I brought this up, because as a Jew it is very painful for me to see how people dilute the negative power of this word by simply turning it into a popular label in political online debates. Thanks to the experience and history of my family and country, I unfortunately could already be convinced of how fraught this is. I don't think that simply opposing the left and liberals through open public debate without any violence or discrimination/calling for it makes you far-right. Kirk was a typical traditionalist conservative who criticized new social phenomena because it contradicted his views on life. Of course, some of his positions or opinions were clearly reactionary. For example, his overly religious view on abortion, where he perceived Christianity as the ultimate truth in health issues, but with the same logic you can call a far-leftist any person who quotes atheist activists in a moral debate. But I don't think there's any particular point in continuing this casuistic argument if we both agree that political violence is unacceptable, regardless of your views. |
|
Reply to RobertBobert
@149597871 If you have to specifically remind someone that you are against violence when you comment on someone's murder, then that already means that you are doing something wrong.
| @RobertBobert I agree with you, but then again, raping children and covering up for child traffickers is also wrong. |
Reply to 149597871
@RobertBobert
I agree with you, but then again, raping children and covering up for child traffickers is also wrong.
I agree with you, but then again, raping children and covering up for child traffickers is also wrong.
| @149597871 The fact that you really expected that I wouldn't understand that this is bait and would start arguing with you really offends me. |
|
| People die every day, he is just another one. Life moves on. |
''Enemies' gifts are no gifts and do no good.'' |
| Reichstag fire moment https://x.com/RepClayHiggins/status/1966114479042593251 |
Mao said: If you have to shit, shit! If you have to fart, fart! |
Reply to vasipi4946
Reichstag fire moment
https://x.com/RepClayHiggins/status/1966114479042593251
https://x.com/RepClayHiggins/status/1966114479042593251
| @vasipi4946 When they kill some rando debate me bro. The EPU Chip is the world's first AI-driven neurochip, crafted specifically to diagnose and treat conditions such as PTSD, anxiety, and neurodegeneration. |
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| ππππππππππππππππππππππππππππππππππ |
| So Tyler Robinson killed Charlie Kirk, for the memes. |
Mao said: If you have to shit, shit! If you have to fart, fart! |
| Also a Hindu Gujarati Indian guy using Scandinavian pagan heaven to honor a Midwestern Protestant Christian https://x.com/LeadingReport/status/1966507420202553398 |
Mao said: If you have to shit, shit! If you have to fart, fart! |
| As soon as there's evidence the shooter's identity isn't easy to weaponize like if he was Trans or Black things magically become complicated. “I have no idea why he did this.” A young man's descent from model student to suspect in the killing of Charlie Kirk. https://www.wsj.com/us-news/who-tyler-robinson-charlie-kirk-suspect-814fd21f?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=ASWzDAjuWLeuBhe0iAC7qsLcmA83_6KCE2RZP60R_lbSX9_3W8dl6D4OQa7c9ABwqrs%3D&gaa_ts=68c48ec6&gaa_sig=PXHz2GsS4MffI02EuDXw0bFJRQWgzxXuCL1lT4idK67NVj8uwFi76x-n-nY3YpYrNGxhnueAcT7E_ujE88TbEw%3D%3D https://archive.is/vumc7 |
Mao said: If you have to shit, shit! If you have to fart, fart! |
| So when I and many others found out what the assassin for Brian Thompson, Luigi Mangione, was like, we thought "Damn, this dude is hot and ivy-league educated". I mean, not sure about you guys, but I never expect assassins or murderers to be hot and successful, you know? So when I heard about the cringe found on the bullet casings and what the Shooter, Tyler Robinson, looked like, I thought "yeah, sounds and looks about right". Lanky white guy, looks like a shut-in, spends too much time on the internet. Definitely a Redditor. |
"Have we not eaten while another starved? Will you punish us for that? Will you reward us for the virtue of starving while others ate? No man earns punishment, no man earns reward. Free your mind of the idea of deserving, the idea of earning, and you will begin to be able to think.” |
| RIP |
 |
| Utah Governor: “I was praying for 33hrs, that if it happened here.. it wasn’t going to be one of us. That it was someone from a different country” |
Mao said: If you have to shit, shit! If you have to fart, fart! |
Reply to vasipi4946
Utah Governor:
“I was praying for 33hrs, that if it happened here.. it wasn’t going to be one of us. That it was someone from a different country”
“I was praying for 33hrs, that if it happened here.. it wasn’t going to be one of us. That it was someone from a different country”
| @vasipi4946 Man, that is such a fucked up thing to think. Acting if Americans were uniquely good. People talk about Kirk’s character and whether or not he deserved or earned his fate. I think that is a narrow-minded way to view his assassination. Sure, he was a terrible person who said bigoted things, but I don’t think he would be assassinated if Trump was not in the White House. Really, I’d say the lawless impunity with which the administration has acted with has contributed to the desperation to take whatever action one can, no matter how destructive and selfish it is. One reason, and surely not the sole reason. why Kirk was assassinated is that we fear living in an era where political violence is sounding plausible. I find that increasingly harder to deny. No one deserves to be murdered for exercising their rights, be it Westboro Baptist or Neo-Nazis. So if anything, I say this assassination is deeply American to its core, in the modern sense of the word. A response to a very American problem. |
"Have we not eaten while another starved? Will you punish us for that? Will you reward us for the virtue of starving while others ate? No man earns punishment, no man earns reward. Free your mind of the idea of deserving, the idea of earning, and you will begin to be able to think.” |
Reply to PeripheralVision
@vasipi4946
Man, that is such a fucked up thing to think. Acting if Americans were uniquely good. People talk about Kirk’s character and whether or not he deserved or earned his fate. I think that is a narrow-minded way to view his assassination.
Sure, he was a terrible person who said bigoted things, but I don’t think he would be assassinated if Trump was not in the White House. Really, I’d say the lawless impunity with which the administration has acted with has contributed to the desperation to take whatever action one can, no matter how destructive and selfish it is. One reason, and surely not the sole reason. why Kirk was assassinated is that we fear living in an era where political violence is sounding plausible. I find that increasingly harder to deny.
No one deserves to be murdered for exercising their rights, be it Westboro Baptist or Neo-Nazis. So if anything, I say this assassination is deeply American to its core, in the modern sense of the word. A response to a very American problem.
Man, that is such a fucked up thing to think. Acting if Americans were uniquely good. People talk about Kirk’s character and whether or not he deserved or earned his fate. I think that is a narrow-minded way to view his assassination.
Sure, he was a terrible person who said bigoted things, but I don’t think he would be assassinated if Trump was not in the White House. Really, I’d say the lawless impunity with which the administration has acted with has contributed to the desperation to take whatever action one can, no matter how destructive and selfish it is. One reason, and surely not the sole reason. why Kirk was assassinated is that we fear living in an era where political violence is sounding plausible. I find that increasingly harder to deny.
No one deserves to be murdered for exercising their rights, be it Westboro Baptist or Neo-Nazis. So if anything, I say this assassination is deeply American to its core, in the modern sense of the word. A response to a very American problem.
| @PeripheralVision The left has been radicalized beyond belief in the last decade or so, that's how the "deserve" conversation is even on the table, even though it absolutely should not be. |
| Anti-aliasing enthusiast |
Reply to JaniSIr
@PeripheralVision The left has been radicalized beyond belief in the last decade or so, that's how the "deserve" conversation is even on the table, even though it absolutely should not be.
| @JaniSIr I'd argue just the opposite, though caveat, I know that not all lefties are democrats and not all conservatives are republicans. Moving on, and keeping I am partly playing Devil's Advocate. The mainstream left (Rather, the democrats) has gotten less radicalized over the last few decades and the conservatives are the true radicals of our time. I am not using radical in a pejorative sense (most people who identify as far left wear that sort of thing with pride, anyway); the republican party under Trump has become the party rebelling against the status quo that the democrats have seemingly embraced. What changes do you suggest the democrats have made for the government, and how are these changes more extreme than what Trump has been doing? Where are the communists and socialists in the democratic party? All I see are politicians who lean left and posit themselves the better alternative to republicans without really being all that different outside of being normal, of not being Trump. A winning strategy, to be sure The democrats have stagnated, which I suppose is fine if the mainstream left does nothing other be performatively progressive, but the issue with normalcy is that it evokes no strong emotions or expectations of radical change in the way MAGA does. Those who are radical but are left feel left out. Sure, i think the changes are bad, but at least they are technically changes. If the party in power flouts the law at every turn and there is no legal way to bring them to justice, how does one react? No one respects the law if it is blatantly inequal in its applications. I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of MAGA and why it happened. A substantial portion of the base, though not all, see it as the party of change, and those in the middle see democrats as the true "conservatives" in the classic sense of the world. Many people, though no all, were previously apolitical. Yes there is radicalization into MAGA and its policies, and politics have become all about spectacle, but the energy at Trump's rallies is infectious. Really, I am saying if you want to criticize the "Reddit left", the best insult you can use is saying that they are not at all radical, that many of them don't believe shit or have a coherent ideology. Calling it "radical" makes no sense to me, Seriously, compare the rhetoric of the politically active left in the 60s and the average leftist/democrat today. No matter how rudely a claim is made or a position taken, does not make it "radical", merely performative. If democrats were in power fewer people would feel the need to shoot people like Kirk, I'd argue. Similar to how Red Sox hooliganism would be less likely if the Red Sox won last night's game! |
PeripheralVision2 hours ago
"Have we not eaten while another starved? Will you punish us for that? Will you reward us for the virtue of starving while others ate? No man earns punishment, no man earns reward. Free your mind of the idea of deserving, the idea of earning, and you will begin to be able to think.” |
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