| Because being less picky would bring more workload. |
*kappa* |
| One of their main barrier is having a distribution and market in both countries, especially in Japan, if it was made with another country. So I guess a lot of series are gate kept because of this rule. I feel it's more an exception for outsider anime (non Japanese anime) than a rule to actually accept foreign anime. |
   There is only one truth in this world かわいいは正義 Also, robots are your friends ✿❀(*ᴗ͈ˬᴗ͈)ꕤ*.ﾟ⋆˚✿˖° Check our anime affinity, Senpai! Fellow cute girl lovers FR accepted. Watch NGNL, ฅ^•ﻌ•^ฅ you bastard~~desu Yuri is life. Now, break a sweat. ★May the stars shine upon you.★ |
| Because no one wants fake animes on the site |
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IvelNostrebor said: Why is MAL so picky with what they consider anime? Easy answer to this is so a website that is suppose to be dedicated to Japanese Anime doesn't completely turn into a general animation database. It's bad enough the MAL database has been flooded with a bunch of Donghua garbage, Hanguk Aeni, and a bunch of animation adopted from Manhwa that would still be technically called Japanese Anime simply because they are produced by Japanese production committees and in Japanese studios. But the moment this database starts opening it's flood gates to anything outsourced to any animation studios in this particular industry, it starts to look less like a Japanese Anime database. In my opinion MAL has never truly been a database dedicated to only Japanese Anime but it's the closest one that exists. With your example of "LOTR: War of Rohirrim", even if it is directed by a Japanese director and animated in a Japanese studio, doesn't mean it's really Japanese Anime if all it's really doing is outsourcing a foreign IP to have it be produced. Which is what I suspect, if MAL isn't adding it to their database. I have been a huge fan of Tolkien almost all throughout my life, long before Peter Jackson turned a classic fantasy adventure tale which is "Lord of the Rings" into an action movie franchise. I even remember really getting into fantasy due to reading "There and Back Again" back in the early 90s when I was still in high School. Since then fantasy themed games, tv, and films have played a huge part of my life when it came to media entertainment. But it wouldn't bother me at all if "LOTR: War of Rohirrim" is just simply viewed as a Western cartoon if that is what it's going to be. This reminds me of "Cyberpunk: Edgerunners". While "Cyberpunk: Edgerunners" is in the MAL database, even if it wasn't and all it was consider was just a Western Cartoon, wouldn't mean I didn't enjoy it. I would actually think it would have been pretty cool and one of the Best Western cartoons ever if it wasn't considered to be Japanese Anime by the MAL database. |
ColourWheelApr 20, 2:00 PM
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| I think Mal should gatekeep. This is myanimelist, not my cartoon inspired by animelist |
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| What do you mean? It's not nearly picky enough. All the Chinese and Korean non-anime should be kicked out. Might as well rename the site into mycartoonlist if it would become any less picky. |
| Ummm they have to be picky otherwise the term "anime" will lose it's meaning which in turn makes anime industries lose money... or something. |
| It's funny, I just had this same discourse a few days ago over at the Recommendations section.. This title not being added likely means that it did not pass the racial purity testing (i.e. inspecting the people that worked on the show for the 'right' ethnicity) conducted by the MAL database team.. |
| Because the line between "animation partially made in Japan that is considered anime" and "animation partially made in Japan that isn't anime" is arbitrary. |
| The whole argument about not being anime if a western IP is being outsourced to Japan falls apart when you consider that Japan themselves often outsource animation to Korea, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc. So if you see any foreign names or studios in the credits does that make it not anime? |
| Is it though? There are a bunch of <1 minute clay animations in the database... https://myanimelist.net/anime/16608/Shitcom |
IvelNostrebor said: it ticks all of the boxes that many westerners require to consider something to be anime Hollywood screenplay derived from famous western IP, producers, etc. You are free to disagree but I can see a lot of potential boxes that arent 'ticked' for the people that make the distinction. IvelNostrebor said: because in Japan animated = anime The english word 'anime' does not equate to 'アニメ'. If words inherited the meaning of the source they were borrowed from without it ever shifting over time, 'anime' would mean 'give life to' from latin. This would be like calling the Japanese word 'マンション' (manshon) a mansion, instead of what it is: an apartment. Yes this japanese word was borrowed from the english word 'mansion' but it does not mean that. |
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| I don't even care what is classified as anime or not. I simply watch the anime shows with naughty anime girls. |
| Here is my Pixiv account of my hentai drawings..... https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/104739065 Here is my blog.... https://theendofindustrialcivilization.blogspot.com/?m=1 |
| It's just pretty clear what is and what isn't Anime. You call it picky. I call it facts. |
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| It feels like they're both too picky and not picky enough. Like they allow donghua and aeni but they exclude recent Japanese productions aimed at largely or partly western markets. It feels really arbitrary. |
| Ask the people who kept the Rick and Morty series in limbo on here for what seemed like months only to just remove the page. I wonder what their qualifications for what is and isn’t an anime is every time I see something from a Chinese studio on here. As for your Devil May Cry question, not even Anilist, which seems more open to things MAL rejects, has it listed, so I wouldn’t hold my breath on that ever popping up here. I’m pretty sure that’s under the same umbrella as something like Castlevania. A cartoon with heavy anime influence. |
FanofActionApr 20, 5:02 PM
| I'm glad they don't just accept any sort of animation just because it was inspired by anime or made by Japanese but in the US or in the West instead. Anywhere from Asia is where I draw the line, since we have Korean and Chinese animation and comics on this site. I'd rather see Japanese games be added before Western animation, since that's interactive anime, especially those with the same style as most anime. But then that'd be thousands more to add, and at this point it'll be too much work, so at best we have anime adaptation of some of these video games. |
| They are trying to fuel our hate. That is my tin foil hat theory. Also Illuminati are probably involved somewhere. >_> |
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| The problem is that the more you broaden the definition of anime the more it loses its meaning. Anime meant, and still broadly means Japanese animation. That typically means a Japanese studio with mostly Japanese staff with a Japanese source material and a signature that we would call anime. 1 or 2 of these things can be missing and still have something classified as anime but the less of them you have, the less meaning the term anime has. To be clear, this is what I see as anime as a fan of the medium, what MAL sees as anime is a whole other story. As I am sure many people are aware, in Japan there is no "anime", anime stands for animation, ALL animation. So a stop motion like Wallace and grommit is "anime", a 10 second animated commercial by volkswagen is anime, I guess even a slideshow of frames that are photographs with some light animated elements is "anime". So you see in this case it simply describes the medium and is no longer a genre. But anyway, this is an aside. As for why MAL does not recognize "LOTR: War of Rohirrim" as anime, well Its hard to say with certainty. One thing that comes to mind is that warner published it, therefore regardless of who worked on it, it can be seen as a western work (there is a bit of a ship of theseus type question here as to whether it is). Besides that the source is obviously western and from what I saw on wikipedia the writers for the script were also western, in other words I have to conclude that the "signature and feel" of it is western. I am also not sure whether it is "made by a Japanese studio as you say", the wikipedia article seems to imply it was helmed by warner Bros animation and New Line cinema, both western. Sola entertainment is also credited and that does seem to be a japanese studio but they were seemingly not in a lead role i.e. they most likely had work outsourced to them but the final say was in Warner's hand. The Director is Japanese as you suggested, but overall the case to call this an anime seems flimsy to me at best. Unless we are advocating for the abolishion of distinguishing Japanese animation from other animation (I don't know why anyone would), I think this film is correctly not on MAL. |
Reply to IvelNostrebor
@chronofantasy
Why does this make you glad? I don't see any positives to not allowing me to put Castlevania on my list.
chronofantasy said:
I'm glad they don't just accept any sort of animation just because it was inspired by anime or made by Japanese
I'm glad they don't just accept any sort of animation just because it was inspired by anime or made by Japanese
Why does this make you glad? I don't see any positives to not allowing me to put Castlevania on my list.
IvelNostrebor said: Castlevania is not an anime so why would it be on the site called myanimelistI don't see any positives to not allowing me to put Castlevania on my list. |
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| Haha you think mal's picky, I assume you have never visited anilist have you? |
Reply to IvelNostrebor
@Anjuro
Is Cyberpunk: Edgerunners so different though? Lots of westerners involved, western IP, primarily western audience, etc. I don't like the meaning some westerners have assigned to "anime". Should popularize the term j-anime if you really wanted. I subscribe to the Japanese meaning of the term, shows like Avatar and Castlevania shouldn't be looked down upon by cringe purists.
Is Cyberpunk: Edgerunners so different though? Lots of westerners involved, western IP, primarily western audience, etc. I don't like the meaning some westerners have assigned to "anime". Should popularize the term j-anime if you really wanted. I subscribe to the Japanese meaning of the term, shows like Avatar and Castlevania shouldn't be looked down upon by cringe purists.
| @IvelNostrebor I haven't seen Cyberpunk so I don't know, but most people seem to consider it an anime. Lot's of westerners involved is not a deal breaker when you consider something like science saru which uses international animation talent, nor is the IP source as long as the vision for the project is what we would call anime, I don't understand the "primarily western audience" point unless you mean that it was released for the west. There is a case to be made here that this maybe shouldn't be anime but I cannot make it and I am too lazy to research right now. At the end of the day genres are messy things, that doesn't mean we should expand them to their broadest definition, they are imperfect tools to help us manage the unmanageable. IvelNostrebor said: Should popularize the term j-anime if you really wanted As a speaker of Japanese I am the first to say anime is a stupid term that should not exist. It's Irksome to me as well but the term is already too recognizable and sticky to change, moreover most people simply do not care. I think at this point we are simply stuck with it, the same way people call eroanime "hentai" which also makes literally no sense. IvelNostrebor said: I subscribe to the Japanese meaning of the term, shows like Avatar and Castlevania shouldn't be looked down upon by cringe purists. This is a different discussion entirely. If you use the Japanese definition of anime then you might be using the same word but the meanings do not align. If using this definition you say Avatar is anime, then for you the statement is trivially true, but for the rest of the community who use the common definition it is false, you are just talking about different things. I don't think its elitism to classify things correctly based on definitions, even in Japan if you called Avatar "Nihon anime" you would get some weird looks. I also don't know what "looking down on western animation" has to do with anything, that is personal opinion and everyone is entitled to it, just as you can not like Japanese animation. Having preferences, even if those are "bad taste" does not constitute elitism. |
| I don't get this sentiment, everything doesn't have to be all encompassing, I don't want MAL to get diluted. If you start getting lenient with with what you consider anime, gradually the boundaries will get less and less obvious and before you know it there'll be people out here who'll say invincible should be an anime because it kinda looks like one. |
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Reply to HokutoMumyoZan
@Anjuro Well, I know I acted like a jerkass in another thread.... even if for different reasons, a related subject...
So the whole reason I can see behind this is the fact that anime has established itself such a presence, especially on MAL. While other places definitely would have some degree of this heated debate, the fact it's on MAL means immense resistance- and especially to a style of animation that has cemented itself as creatively liberated and with a very strong reputation of quality, not even owing to its cultural history in not just Japan, but the United States.
As I can see, "As in Rome" is the best solution- after all, if it's Japan's way of doing things, anime fans around the world will follow, more or less. At the same time, fans outside of Japan are eager to show their respect their way, and they're very aware of affairs and terms in their own home territory, which definitely isn't the same as Japan.
It would be the easiest solution to call it all anime- Avatar, Castlevania, Devil May Cry, (both netflix), but has the core fandom of anime in the USA found its sense of respect to present to honor Japan proudly? Has it done what it took to clear its own baggage, to feel proud not just of putting out work reaching the level of anime but to feel proud and dignified of themselves?
This is indeed a tough topic....
So the whole reason I can see behind this is the fact that anime has established itself such a presence, especially on MAL. While other places definitely would have some degree of this heated debate, the fact it's on MAL means immense resistance- and especially to a style of animation that has cemented itself as creatively liberated and with a very strong reputation of quality, not even owing to its cultural history in not just Japan, but the United States.
As I can see, "As in Rome" is the best solution- after all, if it's Japan's way of doing things, anime fans around the world will follow, more or less. At the same time, fans outside of Japan are eager to show their respect their way, and they're very aware of affairs and terms in their own home territory, which definitely isn't the same as Japan.
It would be the easiest solution to call it all anime- Avatar, Castlevania, Devil May Cry, (both netflix), but has the core fandom of anime in the USA found its sense of respect to present to honor Japan proudly? Has it done what it took to clear its own baggage, to feel proud not just of putting out work reaching the level of anime but to feel proud and dignified of themselves?
This is indeed a tough topic....
| @HokutoMumyoZan If I am being entirely honest, I don't really understand where this argument of "what can be considered anime" is ultimately coming from, is it an honest inquiry when a work is made that does not fit neatly into any category, or is it fueled by some self-righteous push to remove the "barrier" between anime and western animation, I really don't know. At the end of the day a genre should describe the work, this whole discussion is a bit of an exercise in pencil pushing bureaucracy, if the king of the universe decrees that JoJo is a Cartoon and spongebob is an anime nothing will change about those shows. I understand the push-back from people who feel like their hobby is conflated with something foreign, I don't understand the reason for the push so much (because like I said, nothing of substance would change). HokutoMumyoZan said: It would be the easiest solution to call it all anime- Avatar, Castlevania, Devil May Cry, (both netflix), but has the core fandom of anime in the USA found its sense of respect to present to honor Japan proudly? Has it done what it took to clear its own baggage, to feel proud not just of putting out work reaching the level of anime but to feel proud and dignified of themselves? Easiest? Yes. But it removes nuance, its like saying, starting tomorrow, Prog rock, K-Pop and death metal are all "Music". People see a distinction between western and Japanese animation, and so they want to classify things based on that identity, I don't see any issues with that. The west should do its own thing and try to stand alongside anime, maybe in the future we will have further stupid terms like "wanime" (patent pending) which is just as good as anime with its own strengths and weaknesses. There can be nuance, there can be distinctions. I feel like the framing in your last sentence is telling of what the issue might be, that if western animation was "good enough" and "was able to reconcile its baggage" then it could be anime. It sort of reveals an implicit idea that to be worth anything you have to be anime and therefore you have to play the language game to reclassify western animation as anime. But like I previously alluded to, I don't subscribe to this idea. Every country has their own culture and identity, anime is Japan's. The goal should not be to "be like anime" but to make works that are compelling and authentic to that culture, that stand on their own and have their own identity regardless of what anime is or is not. Western animation already has an identity if we just look back to find it, there are amazing works of western animation like the Thief and the Cobbler that are nothing like anime, we just need to realize that. But yeah, obviously it is a muddy subject that can be viewed in many different ways. |
IvelNostrebor said: Is Cyberpunk: Edgerunners so different though? Lots of westerners involved, western IP, primarily western audience, etc. I don't like the meaning some westerners have assigned to "anime". Should popularize the term j-anime if you really wanted. I subscribe to the Japanese meaning of the term, shows like Avatar and Castlevania shouldn't be looked down upon by cringe purists. Who is to say someone is looking down on animation simply because it's not Japanese Anime? also if one takes culture as the main factor, then anything that Japan accepts as part of their culture in this context is basically Japanese Anime regardless of any criteria. Simply put if the Japanese people view something as part of their culture than it's hard to deny that to them. With Edgerunners, From my perspective the animated series was already broadly viewed in a positive light by the people in Japan, so regardless, if the people there accept it as part of their culture then basically Edgerunners is Japanese Anime then. Which could be viewed as an outlier if one took a closer look at it's over all reception globally as well. As far as Avatar and Castlevania, specifically Avatar, when I was last over in Japan many people I have had conversations with about Japanese Anime over there don't consider that apart of their culture in the slightest. I would assume the same thing goes with the Castlevania production too. Either way others in this thread have already pointed out neither is Japanese Anime anyways because they are both Western productions. At most they could be seen as Anime inspired works but that doesn't make them Japanese Anime. A rare example of Japan not accepting something as part of it's culture is the original Transformers animation from the early 80s. It's originally a Japanese IP based off a toy line and even the animation was produced in Japanese animation studios but the entire franchise was highjacked by a western production company and people in Japan to this day do not view something that could be Japanese Anime based on arbitrary criteria as part of their culture. Historically the original Transformers animation hasn't been viewed as part of their broader domestic medium in the slightest because of this. Even when ironically there were episodes produced that only aired in Japan specifically for just the Japanese audience that never aired in the West. |
ColourWheelApr 21, 12:57 AM
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Reply to Lucifrost
@Zarutaku
It was their choice to add Chinese and Korean animation. I have no sympathy for the mods who put in all that extra work every season.
It was their choice to add Chinese and Korean animation. I have no sympathy for the mods who put in all that extra work every season.
| @Lucifrost I think they wouldn't do that again if there weren't any in the database nowadays and they had to decide if they should include them. |
*kappa* |
| It is because they never updated their guidelines to properly reflect current conditions of the industry. There does need to be standards but their standards are too narrow minded sometimes. |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
| Because they aren't anime.They are animation. |
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