What this fan of the show has an issue with.(Episdoe 11 spoilers)

@MasterHavik

As a word of advice on MAL, please refrain from cussing / calling people names, or else the mods will get you. Unfortunately, they have banned me for way less. We are now best friends, so I thought I should protect you from people that can't understand that we are not arguing, but are genuinely discussing the art of anime that we love. ( lets hope they do not ban me for saying this )

It is not a "gotcha", but it does say something about someone, if they judge certain people for their actions, but then praise people that cheated in sports, kind of funny to think about, but I was trying to say that you shouldn't just judge based on bias or personal opinion.

Actually, I went to a private school, which was started in the 80s because our parents were right about the public school system in the US, they were working to indoctrinate students from a young age, which has been happening since the 60s, when the leftists took over the school system. Now we have a bunch of people that hate the US, without being able to answer why they hate it, which is so embarrassing. I mean if you hated the US at least know why, but come on, they can't even say why they want to change the US, it is sad.

Anyways, I don't think Rudeus, Roxy, or Elinalise did anything that terrible. Sylphie already considered how Rudeus grew up and how he was. Roxy loved him, wanted to help him, didn't want to break up the marriage, backed off when he asked her too. Rudeus was in a weakened state, or he would have stopped Roxy otherwise, because he does love Sylphie, but he also loves Roxy, so it wasn't like sleeping with a prostitute. And Elinalise suggested that they get married, which is way better than an affair or cheating, Rudeus would need to take responsibility for his actions.

I hope you have a good day.

@abystoma2 I mean the author posted it twitter it was fucking wild.

I think it is because you don't need to do this to get the same result.

Yes, but there is a massive gap and the girl didn't know who he was as he changed a lot. They haven't each other in a minute. Also that relationship wasn't sexual but of respect and trust between the two.They only had sex once. They haven't even gone out on a proper date.

Yes, but you can see that relationship building even if if she didn't hide her gender they wouldn't married faster.

@lithiumcarbonate Keep in mind the author of the LN decided to change this too. He thought this would make it receive less backlash. I have never seen someone piss their own readers as much as this guy. It's like an art for him.

I don't hate the show but you sum up how I feel about this. You got people trying to strawman my arguments or put words in my mouth when I don't mind him having a second wife I just don't like fast this was rushed through. I don't mind Roxy/Rudy but not done in a way she is taking advantage of someone grieving multiple things. I understand Elinalise is saying, but to waste all of that character development you gave her to turn her into a plot device to victim blame and pressure Rudy into doing something he isn't fully comfortable doing knowing full well her granddaughter is pregnant.

@ejleon Do the world a favor and cut your internet cord. Conservatives are kindly welcome to self-exile, or to be "self"-exiled :)

I would disagree this.

@MasterHavik She did say that clearly in ep15 ss2, let me quote it for ya: "If I'm not able to have kids, you can take a mistress if you want".

Okay, the first point to defend Rudeus is, Sylph allow him to reproduce with other girl(s). That mean he can have a second wife without any problem.
The second is although he has Sylph's allowance, he still feel sorry which was expressed in the conversation between him and Roxy, Elinalise.
Not to mention the third point, that Roxy fell in love with Rudeus, it's inevitable since he became the ideal husband model (she claimed that in the past episode), and her hint to Rudeus was obvious in episode 20, 21. Also, Roxy is more (or just equally) important to Rudeus than Sylph (She rescued him from his trauma).

Let's talk about some weak point, Sylph is in pregnancy btw, but I think that's the reason Rudeus feels sorry, not that he's talking to another girl. So I would accept him for being sorry, solved.
Rudeus has the most fragile soul comparing to Norn, Eris or any character of the series. Remember when he lost Eris? He was just continue to being sad all the way until Counter Arrow party and Soldat help him, that was atleast 3 months of sadness. That depression surely can't be worse than losing Paul and Zenith's state of mind.
By the way, Rudeus is a scumbag and a fragile soul at the same time, and these little details I said above was built step by step, episode by episode. I would say, the author even participates in directoring the show, the studio was just founded to make the show, there are even more small details and I want to say more about it but this comment is long enough.

Hopefully this help commnent help you understand the anime adaptation. Btw, one of the best anime I've ever seen.

@MasterHavik

I am no "fanboy", making assumptions only makes you look bad.

I did not say heartless mindless lust / sex were the things that helped Rudeus.

It was not about Elinalise or any random woman doing whatever for or to Rudeus.

I was saying that Roxy's love and support was what helped Rudeus in his time of needing someone to comfort him and to lean on. Sex was not even the main thing that helped him, it was her sharing in his grief and sorrow, she cared about his father and mother too, and she loved Rudeus, sex was just the thing that demonstrated how much she loved him, trusting him all the way.

But you are obviously a modern generation that knows nothing about the human heart mind soul behavior or history, hence why you can't understand something as beautiful and wonderful as love.

Just because your own personal opinion is against something, does not mean it is wrong in history.
I hate when modern people force their own personal ethics / morals on people that were in the past or in stories that have nothing to do with them.
It is the heights of arrogance.

@ejleon
You reply on every MT thread, you are a fanboy, denying just because he doesn't know you are proving his point.
To love and support you don't need to have sex with that person. "Sex a demostration of love" isn't that "the thing" teenagers say to manipulate their significant other?

My issue with this episode is not a matter of morality, but that the wish fulfillment is now becoming too blatant. Eris was handled perfectly (and also a billion times better in terms of animation and directing, instead of the most boring fade to black), Sylphy was still reasonable, now the way Roxy threw herself at Rudeus is blatant wish fulfillment.

@xqXpx Calling people a "fanboy" just because they disagree with your opinion is cowardly, especially since you have no evidence for such a claim. I am just explaining what people like you do not know and do not understand. You really do not know that the ultimate trust by a woman is offering her body to someone she loves? Teenages who say that are lusting, not in love, lust is completely selfish, what Roxy did was love. I am sad people are so unaware of what true love is.

@Nirinbo Sorry could you explain your point more clearly, I got that you liked the event with Eric, but the event with Roxy was boring.

Roxy didn’t force herself on anyone, just to think that is not knowing the characters Rudeus & Roxy.

Rudeus knew full well what happened, he didn’t blame her, because he knew that he let it happen.

Roxy did it to help Rudeus, who was an empty shell of himself, after his father died, which he blamed himself for, and his mother forgot her own son’s existence.

It actually helped Rudy come back to reality, that was the entire point, Roxy was trying to help Rudy when he was at his lowest point and had no escape from his extreme depression and despair.

And Elinalise suggesting Rudeus take responsibility for his actions and for Roxy is not bad, it is a suggestion that helped solve the issue of them loving each other, wanting to be together, but not wanting it to be an affair or to break up the marriage.

And this has been done in history, between humans, so it actually has a basis for happening.

The problem is that people are ignorant of history and human behavior, so it is sad that they keep saying Rudeus, Roxy, Elinalise are bad people.

@ejleon
You really do not know that the ultimate trust by a woman is offering her body to someone she loves?

You right, I don't know that, because is not true.

I am sad you thing this is true love. Cheating on your pregnant wife, what a good example of true love.

@ejleon it was boring in the sense that the current season is not nearly as good as s1 in terms of animation and directing, but the bigger issue is the writing. When I say "blatant wish fulfillment", I mean that Roxy's development doesn't feel natural, but something made just to appeal to those who self-insert as the MC.

Someone might argue that MT is an isekai so it was meant from the start for it to be wish fulfillment, but I feel that this is the straw that broke the camel's back. I still like MT, but now I'm pretty sure it'll be far from being one of my favorite isekai, just slightly above average because I like controversial stuff.

@ejleon bro, they themselves admitted that what they did was fucked up and that it shouldn't have happened, and you write as if they went for afternoon tea.Depression cannot be treated with sex because it is abnormal and absurd. No one will get rid of depression after sex like Rudeus did. Such things only work in this series. That's not how you solve problems. What they did was just a cheap trick to force Roxy into the harem.



''And Elinalise suggesting Rudeus take responsibility for his actions and for Roxy is not bad'' yeah, getting Roxy to lie to Rudues and tell him she's isn't a bad thing.lo not l Putting your granddaughter's happiness before friend's is also very nice. Elinalise is a great grandmother. In general, she, as the biggest slut in this series, should not advise anyone when it comes to relationships

@Gabu-sama When you assume, it only makes you look bad

I love researching empirical (observable) evidence in Social Science & Science, because that is reasoned and logical.

On the other hand, you leftists reject reason to have unquestioned untested blind faith beliefs in atheists claims, that are without any support.

I am happy that i have access to the internet so I can save your soul.

@Nirinbo Then my question is why do you assume "wish fulfillment", do you want that wish for you to come true?

Your point does not make any sense otherwise.

In history, women have used their charms and their bodies to help men to feel better, in all honestly, this really makes a sincere difference to real men.

@ejleon As I said, you only had two options. Make your peace with choosing the second. Also, imagine thinking a real left exists in 'murica. You truly are Zenith-brained.

@ejleon because the thing with Roxy was so sudden, instead of something gradually built over time. Maybe I feel like this because I'm missing some more context from the LN.

@Jollyne7 Then honestly you lack experience with LOVE. Love helps people in the most darkest of situations. You people are all about lust and sex, but true love is not so silly. Just imagine if someone protected you from harm but died themselves, that is what true love is.

Oh Roxy did not lie, Elinalise did, but what is the problem, they married, it is not an affair or lust.

@ejleon I don't think you realize, or don't want to realize, that Roxy may have wanted to help Rudeus, but she also took advantage of him. She admitted it herself. This isn't good love. What she did was wrong and toxic because she did not respect Rudeus nor did she respect Sylphie and her child. I don't want to defend Rudeus because he is also guilty, but Roxy behaved badly and she knows it perfectly well, but according to you this is some form of pure love.

''Just imagine if someone protected you from harm but died themselves, that is what true love is.'' I don't know why you bring this up. if you mean Paul, yes, what he did for Rudeus was pure love, but don't compare his actions and love to Roxy's love, who took advantage of Paul's death to get to Rudeus.

''Oh Roxy did not lie, Elinalise did, but what is the problem, they married, it is not an affair or lust.'' so you don't see another problem in the fact that they lied to him? seriously? it wasn't an affair? the moment Roxy slept with Rudeus without Sylphie's knowledge or permission, it WAS an affair. you have really strange definitions about 'true' love

@Nirinbo "so sudden" what are you talking about? She was his teacher and she knew he was different then the people of this world. Sadly the anime did not represent her thoughts, but she said "Anyone would have fallen for you in that moment", so she was smitten from when he saved her.

@ejleon She was also a virgin tho (correct me if I'm wrong), because the self inserting otaku audience would hate the idea of putting their dicks into "used goods" (that's how they call any non-virgin girl).

Look, I'm not saying it doesn't make any sense. I know it can make sense, otherwise I wouldn't be afraid of rating it much lower. It's just that the wish fulfillment is more blatant now.

@Jollyne7 I can solve this with one statement, Sylphie would have thanked Roxy for helping Rudeus to come back to her, to be with his wife and kid, because the way Rudeus was after everything, he was already dead, or a least empty of life.

But immature people like you would not understand such a complicated feeling as this.

As to my appreciation of life, I have almost died and was in the hospital for 3 weeks, so I can appreciate someone giving me a reason to go on.

It was not an affair, it was only one time, and even then it was only to get Rudeus to wake up from his extreme depression and despair, things that someone like you could never truly understand.

I don't have strange ideas about true love, people like you do not know what love is.

@ejleon this conversation makes no sense because whoever writes everything you say something like ''you don't know what love is, don't talk like that, I know better'' who is immature here?

My issue with this episode is not a matter of morality, but that the wish fulfillment is now becoming too blatant. Eris was handled perfectly (and also a billion times better in terms of animation and directing, instead of the most boring fade to black), Sylphy was still reasonable, now the way Roxy threw herself at Rudeus is blatant wish fulfillment.

@Nirinbo I will agree that the episode direction was better with Eris but their actions are exactly the same. Rudeus shows hesitancy, the woman jumps on top and goes to town. In fact, if you read the story Eris is far more wish fulfillment than Roxy. Anyway, i don't get this "wish fulfillment" criticism, as that means nothing. There is logical and illogical actions in a story and believability and realism. Take Frieren, Himmel's actions are pure wish fulfillment for women. Some guy is going to pine away his life without ever being with another women, solely being in love with a woman but just not able to say it even though he is brave enough to face down a Demon King. The wish fulfillment is not the problem, but Himmel's actions are out-of-character so its bad writing. He's brave except when admitting feelings? It's not established at all in the story or developed. It just is. That is the problem with episodic stories, generally, though. Here, it's established that Rudeus is a scumbag who has said he was in love with Roxy since episode 2 and Roxy is a morally flawed character who fantasizes about falling in love with a man just like Rudeus saving her in a dungeon. The sex is foreshadowed in the novel and the anime. That is good writing as opposed to Frieren. This is a good example of why narrative anime, if executed reasonably well, will always be a superior form of storytelling.

@Gabu-sama Are you that unaware of your indoctrination, you are the one who said you were indoctrinated. I did not even need to say it. I pity you.

@ejleon you're a muritard - the entire world pities YOU.

@Gabu-sama "muritard" speak English please

@ejleon I'd say the same to you, 'murican. Learn how to speak English. Of course, we all know your IQ is in the double digits, so this might prove difficult.

Your hate and prejudice against other peoples and countries, only makes you look bad.

It’s been hilarious to see you try to insult me, just for disagreeing with you and being from the US, but fail so badly.

But more importantly, you have not said anything that disproves what I explained, because you can’t, that’s why you haven’t even tried.

Anyways, I am not wasting any more time, hope all the best.

Roxy didn’t force herself on anyone, just to think that is not knowing the characters Rudeus & Roxy.

Rudeus knew full well what happened, he didn’t blame her, because he knew that he let it happen.

Roxy did it to help Rudeus, who was an empty shell of himself, after his father died, which he blamed himself for, and his mother forgot her own son’s existence.

It actually helped Rudy come back to reality, that was the entire point, Roxy was trying to help Rudy when he was at his lowest point and had no escape from his extreme depression and despair.

And Elinalise suggesting Rudeus take responsibility for his actions and for Roxy is not bad, it is a suggestion that helped solve the issue of them loving each other, wanting to be together, but not wanting it to be an affair or to break up the marriage.

And this has been done in history, between humans, so it actually has a basis for happening.

The problem is that people are ignorant of history and human behavior, so it is sad that they keep saying Rudeus, Roxy, Elinalise are bad people.

Thank you for your response. I am open to hearing other people’s opinions, however, I already addressed a lot of these same issues in the conversation above.

Such as how it is completely illogical to force your own personal modern opinions of “morality” on fictional characters or even other peoples in history, since they do not live in the same time or world as you do, their time or world is completely different, and their ideas of “morality” in their time or world are also different.

For example, in history, having multiple wives, a harem, concubines, visiting prostitutes, sleeping around was not always looked down upon, in many past nations this was accepted, some even saw this as a form of strength, power, dominance in their time period. Sometimes having multiple wives was to ensure an heir, since life was difficult and hard on humans to survive.

In Japan, polygamy was only made illegal a little over a century ago, in the late 1800s AD, which means that polygamy was practiced in Japan for thousands of years, but even after this, it was still a part of the culture through the 1900s AD. Even in modern Japan, there is still a culture that does not agree with your opinions on this matter.

For the record, I never insert myself into any historical or fictional story, not only is it illogical, but that is so physically emotionally mentally taxying, and there is no reason for me to exert myself more than to read / watch what is presented with an objective mind. I understand that their way of life and opinions (etc) are different than mine, so I also don’t judge them as if they existed in my own time / world, or if they should have my own opinions on morality, because that is unfair.

But it is obvious to see that you are personally inserting yourself into the anime story, being emotionally invested, not following how the characters themselves would think feel respond, but stating how you personally feel about what is happening, as if it was happening to you, which is also completely illogical, it is a fictional story, not real life, but even then as I stated, judging people because their views are different than your’s is not having an objective mindset, it is having a subjective mindset.

You say things like “Sylphie deserves better to be honest”, but this only proves that you have not been following the anime story, character descriptions, character interactions or dialogue, since you do not know that Sylphie herself would disagree with your own personal opinion.

Sylphie, knew about their family, how Paul was, having two wives, knowing how Rudeus was and what he liked in females, and her own lack of confidence in herself. She stated that even though she wanted to have Rudeus to herself, she knew that other women might come into Rudeus’ life, and he could eventually want other wives, so she decided to live with this and make the best of the situation, because she loved Rudeus and wanted to stay with him.

Even if Rudeus did not ask to make Roxy his second wife, Sylphie was the kind of woman that after hearing about what happened, she would have understood what Roxy was trying to accomplish in helping Rudeus, and Sylphie would have thanked her for comforting and bringing Rudeus back to her. Also, Sylphie never was mad at her grandmother Lise for her suggestions, for Rudeus’ behavior, Roxy’s choices, she actually welcomed Roxy & Eris into their family.

I also stated that in MT’s world, other than the Millis religion and those who follow it, there is nothing against people having multiple spouses or extra marital relations, it was a regular norm, example sleeping with the beastkin servants, and none of the people involved — Syphie Roxy Lise Rudy, later Eris — followed that religion, so even through Cliff, Norn (Rudy’s younger sister), Rudy’s aunt, who all followed Millis, disagreed, those involved did not have any problem with it.

Going by what I remember in the anime, I think Rudeus is one of the only people who understood Paul’s situation more than anyone else, because of how he himself was. Rudeus didn’t get mad at Paul, yell at him, or hate him, Rudeus helps to keep his family all together, knowing how it would affect them all, so he convinced Zenith to accept the situation, by saying he would be sad if their family broke up. Rudeus knew how it would affect Paul, Zenith & Liliah, the two newborns, plus himself, so he stepped in to help the situation, when Paul couldn’t do or say anything to fix the situation. Everyone was thankful to Rudeus for their own reasons, Paul not wanting to break up the family, Zenith still loving Paul / being pregnant / caring about Liliah, Liliah loving Paul / being pregnant / caring for Zenith. I don’t remember Rudeus ever looking down on Paul for what happened, but Rudeus does recognize that Paul messed up the good situation that he had. Both Paul and Rudeus recognize that Paul was not a good example as a husband or a father, but Redeus never thought of himself as such a great example either, knowing things he did in his own previous life. Plus Rudeus was honestly thankful for all that Paul did for him, taught him, and all the hard work he did to find everyone after the teleportation disaster. Also, I heard that Paul swore off sex until he found Zenith, that included not being with Liliah his second wife, which she accepted herself also, seeing his determination to find Zenith at all costs.

I stated that I was not talking about lust / sex, which is completely selfish, but I am talking about love and support, meaning Roxy was seeing Rudeus’s depressed and despairing state, that he wouldn’t come out of the room, so she wanted to help him, but wasn’t sure how.

I believe in the written material it was a longer time period than the anime showed, causing everyone to worry about Rudeus’s condition, especially Roxy, but someone who knows can correct me.

I acknowledged that this did not require sex at all. Roxy’s main goal was to share in the carrying of the immense pain and sorrow that Rudeus was crippled with, over his lack of experience / training, not being strong enough, losing an arm, his father dying due to saving him, which he blamed himself for, his mother not remembering her own son’s existence, her own state after they rescued her, then thinking about how he failed his younger sisters at home, who were hoping to see their father again, and the fact that Paul would not be alive to see his grandchild.

For good measure, I also stated that Roxy did not rape or take advantage of Rudeus, he knew full well what was happening and he could have stopped her at any time, but he willingly let it happen. Plus when they woke the next morning, he did not blame Roxy or get mad, but he blamed himself for letting it happened.

Rudeus was grateful to Roxy, because it did snap him out of his darkened state, but he also felt terrible for breaking his promise to Sylphie, because he does love her, and he later asks Roxy to not continue in how she was acting around him, even though he stated that he loved Roxy just as much as Sylphie. Rudeus knew the situation would affect both the women he loved, and he was considering both their thoughts and feelings, which shows a maturity and genuine care in Rudeus’ character.

Roxy was in love with Rudeus and she also loved his parents for helping her, when she needed work, so she genuinely wanted to support Rudeus in his time of immense pain and to grieve with him.

Though she knew of his wife and coming kid, after asking Lise, Roxy didn’t have to, but she herself chose to follow Lise’s suggestion, to show Rudeus how much she sincerely loved and trusted him, by offering herself to him, being her first time she had to be incredibly nervous, but she knew that this would mean something to Rudeus, and she hoped it would help him break free of his deep depression and come back to facing reality head on.

Even if nothing happened that night between them physically because Rudeus stopped her, her just offering such a precious thing as her first time to Rudeus would mean a lot to him, and Roxy wouldn’t have been mad or jealous had Rudeus stopped her, she would have understood, as her words and actions later made clear.

When Rudeus asked Roxy to stop acting so affectionately around him after what happened, because he did love Sylphie and was guilty for breaking his promise to her, feeling sad that he gave into his feelings for Roxy, she did not protest or fight or get jealous, even though it hurt her a lot, she stayed away, out of love for Rudeus and respect for his wife, stating that it was just to help him on the trip back, and Rudeus also felt bad for how he hurt her. And Roxy even says “Ask me again, when you have permission from your wife”, which shows restraint of her own personal feelings for Rudeus, when Rudeus follows Lise’s suggestion to take responsibility for his actions and to ask Roxy to marry him.

Neither one of them wanted to have a selfish affair or to break up the marriage, hence why they both agree to stay away from each other, even though they both wanted to be together.

By this point Rudeus is just feeling terrible and disgusted with himself.

Everything Lise did was to help Rudeus, NO it couldn’t just be any woman, she told Roxy specifically because of how they loved about each other, then later to help both of them, and it is her pwn personal choice of how to do it. That you disagree with her suggestions is your own personal opinion. Lise doesn’t live in the same world as you, she doesn’t have the same morality as you do, she does not follower the Millis religion which did not allow polygamy, and with her much experience with men, it was what she thought would help Roxy help Rudeus, would help Rudeus, and then help both of them for the love and pain they were suffering.

Also, I stated that events like this have happened in history, where people that loved each other and have spent a night together, then went back to their own lives, but their love and support helped one another to get through difficult events they experienced, so this story does have a basis in reality.

@ejleon holy fuck, I aint reading that wall of text.