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| Monster has a slow pacing aside from that everything else is pretty good. The dynamic between Johan and Dr. Tenma is quite great. And I think the ending concludes the show in a satisfying manner. |
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Reply to UncleWinkleDink
Man. This one was gutting for me. I have to come clean: for the first 65 episodes of this show, I was talking about it non-stop. Recommending it to friends, excitedly waiting to jump in on the discussion once I no longer had to worry about spoilers. Honestly, this show is so good for those episodes, it's impossible not to recommend.
The writing is fantastic. Every incidental character feels fundamental even in the scope of the broadstroke storytelling simply due to how much care and emotion is put into each of their respective roles or backstories. Characters that would be mc's in lesser tales are only here for a few episodes. Richard Braun, Dr. Gillen, Schuwald, and more prominently, Tenma, Johan, Nina, Eva, Deiter, Lunge, Dr. Reichwein, Grimmer, Roberto, Martin. There are seriously so many great characters. Even the old dude who is an ex-cop who learns to trust himself through successfully assessing Tenma's character is great. The plot, great, the tension, mystery and characters it contains? Great.
The ending? Not so much. It's really gutting for me because without hyperbole, those 65 episodes are my favourite anime. The remaining 9 are not. As soon as the show reaches Ruhenheim or whatever it's called, things get gradually weaker and weaker. All the elements that made the show great give way to underwritten endings and predictability.
On predictability, one of the show's great feats was being unpredictable. At the end, it's the opposite. You know who's going to live and die, who's going to show up where and when, and it's disappointing to be correct every time. Beyond that, the dramatic devices that were once thrilling just feel really lame. In the last 3 episodes, how many times was there a gunshot, then cut to black, and then a reveal that the person you thought was shooting either did not shoot(!) or was shot themselves? It makes the action repetitive and predictable.
My biggest complaint is how the ending gives us little to no understanding of Johan. The entire tale hinges on this character, yet, at the end, we understand his aims, but not the reasons behind them. He wants to kill everyone that ever knew him and disappear in "the perfect suicide" because, as a child, he felt his mother didn't want him, and to meet that wish, he wants to disappear, as though he never existed? Is that it? I understand things being left open to interpretation, but I wanted more than just Johan repeating the same old jargon he always does, then pointing at his head again from his confrontation with Tenma. I wanted more from Franz Bonaparte, too, who's arc is so rushed. We're given so little time to learn about this character and yet we're expected to find his development from guilt-ridden, avoidant man to redemptive "hero" satisfying when it's given so little attention in the scheme of things, which also feels wrong given that Bonapart plays such a pivotal role in the story. It's underbaked. I also wanted more of a *why* from him, too. We never get one. Why did he take part in the experiments and facilitate them? What was his goal, exactly? What did he get from it? I know they wanted the next Hitler and all that nonsense, but what did *he* want. You never find out. I don't think all questions should be answered, but some are important. I feel the ending does a poor job of answering any at all.
It's also really contrived. To achieve the effect of circular storytelling, the plot just asks too much suspension of disbelief. The story begins when Tenma saves Johan. At the end, after Johan is shot, the police identify Tenma as a high-priority murder suspect and you're telling me that instead of interrogating him, they allow this (again) murder suspect to perform a delicate brain surgery on a man others are claiming is a mass murderer, who incidentally, Tenma has also been hunting with the intention of killing in cold blood? And they allow all of this with little to no incentive. Which is important - because previously, the show went to great lengths to use the same plot device when Tenma is apprehended by a village's local cop whose mother requires brain surgery, or else she'll die. Remove that personal thread, and things don't make sense. But that's how it ends.
What feels worse is that such a contrivance takes place for an ending that achieves a far lesser impact than if Tenma had just been arrested. Think about it - Johan's "perfect suicide" leaves him dead, another corpse among hundreds in the town, and there is no-one left to acquit Tenma, and so he is arrested. Johan is erased from existence as per his wishes, and Tenma gets locked up. It's not perfect, but it's better than the happy-go-lucky, Johan is saved, Tenma is acquitted, Nina and Reichwein and Dieter live happily ever after and once we've all had a little therapy - everyone's fine. Given the show's tone, that just feels off. I wouldn't mind it as much if the ending was at all satisfying in those other ways - less predictable, per se, or if we got the answers I wanted - but without those elements it just feels like being robbed of what could have been. It's really disappointing.
And Dieter - a good character, but talk about pointless? The writers seem to forget him entirely. For most of the show, he plays as a saving grace for Tenma and a symbol of purity in a dark world to redeem it and prevent Tenma from killing Johan. A character even mentions this to the audience mid-way through the show, telling Dieter to never leave Tenma's side and stop him from killing Johan. Dieter doesn't do that, good luck to the guy, but Tenma never shoots Johan anyway. So, what was the point in all that foreshadowing, then? He plays effectively no role in the plot, now, besides being a convenience for other characters to more easily reach certain locations or do certain things. He doesn't feel as much like a living, breathing person as if he would've played a larger, more impactful part in the narrative's ending.
Even with what few answers we have, I just wanted *more*. More depth, more understanding of the *why's* of Monster's universe. I get that the show wants to comment on concepts of Nature versus Nurture in a person's actions, but even within those parameters you can be vague and still answer questions. It's arguably more compelling to do so, as it stands right now, the lack of answers leads to a pretty boring conclusion. Why did Johan murder hundreds? The guy's got a screw loose. That's it. He went through some shit, but he was always a bit bonkers. It lacks depth. Wouldn't it be more compelling to have the audience question if the root was his nature or his circumstance? I feel it would be. Regardless, on no front did this ending land for me. It felt unrewarding, so much so that an anime I felt was easily going to achieve masterpiece status is just "really good" instead. No insult by any means, and I'd still highly recommend it. But instead of being one of my favourites, it really, really disappointed me with its underwritten, undersold, underbaked and undertold ending. A show like this has you watching for that one moment where the penny finally drops: you're hit with a twist, a drop of exposition or an unforeseen secret and suddenly, it all makes sense. It's inherent to the genre, mystery and suspense, but for either to actually work, pay-off is required, and no pay-off ever comes for Monster.
Edit: I just feel that a lot about the ending being satisfying for some people either involves glossing over important questions or seeking answers for them externally, through reddit threads and "ending explained" videos. The art should speak for itself; it shouldn't need your favourite YouTuber for it to make sense. One of the more prominent questions that wasn't answered: why did Johan's mother dress both the twins as female? It's the crux for the entire plot, yet it's never explained.
The tricky thing is that even with all the chips lying where they are, with a bit more actual *writing* I'd be satisfied. Answer some questions, leave just enough to the viewer's imagination, satisfying conclude certain character arcs, then call it a day. Monster doesn't do that, though.
Side note: I also see people pompously debating who the real "monster" was. Like, brother. Regardless of your experience it's not really acceptable to provoke racial conflicts, make orphan children kill each other and start a mini-civil war, assist in a couple suicides and kill innocent foster parents. The fact people are calling Johan "redeemable" is beyond me. Y'all are crazy man.
Those 65 episodes earn it an 8/10.
The writing is fantastic. Every incidental character feels fundamental even in the scope of the broadstroke storytelling simply due to how much care and emotion is put into each of their respective roles or backstories. Characters that would be mc's in lesser tales are only here for a few episodes. Richard Braun, Dr. Gillen, Schuwald, and more prominently, Tenma, Johan, Nina, Eva, Deiter, Lunge, Dr. Reichwein, Grimmer, Roberto, Martin. There are seriously so many great characters. Even the old dude who is an ex-cop who learns to trust himself through successfully assessing Tenma's character is great. The plot, great, the tension, mystery and characters it contains? Great.
The ending? Not so much. It's really gutting for me because without hyperbole, those 65 episodes are my favourite anime. The remaining 9 are not. As soon as the show reaches Ruhenheim or whatever it's called, things get gradually weaker and weaker. All the elements that made the show great give way to underwritten endings and predictability.
On predictability, one of the show's great feats was being unpredictable. At the end, it's the opposite. You know who's going to live and die, who's going to show up where and when, and it's disappointing to be correct every time. Beyond that, the dramatic devices that were once thrilling just feel really lame. In the last 3 episodes, how many times was there a gunshot, then cut to black, and then a reveal that the person you thought was shooting either did not shoot(!) or was shot themselves? It makes the action repetitive and predictable.
My biggest complaint is how the ending gives us little to no understanding of Johan. The entire tale hinges on this character, yet, at the end, we understand his aims, but not the reasons behind them. He wants to kill everyone that ever knew him and disappear in "the perfect suicide" because, as a child, he felt his mother didn't want him, and to meet that wish, he wants to disappear, as though he never existed? Is that it? I understand things being left open to interpretation, but I wanted more than just Johan repeating the same old jargon he always does, then pointing at his head again from his confrontation with Tenma. I wanted more from Franz Bonaparte, too, who's arc is so rushed. We're given so little time to learn about this character and yet we're expected to find his development from guilt-ridden, avoidant man to redemptive "hero" satisfying when it's given so little attention in the scheme of things, which also feels wrong given that Bonapart plays such a pivotal role in the story. It's underbaked. I also wanted more of a *why* from him, too. We never get one. Why did he take part in the experiments and facilitate them? What was his goal, exactly? What did he get from it? I know they wanted the next Hitler and all that nonsense, but what did *he* want. You never find out. I don't think all questions should be answered, but some are important. I feel the ending does a poor job of answering any at all.
It's also really contrived. To achieve the effect of circular storytelling, the plot just asks too much suspension of disbelief. The story begins when Tenma saves Johan. At the end, after Johan is shot, the police identify Tenma as a high-priority murder suspect and you're telling me that instead of interrogating him, they allow this (again) murder suspect to perform a delicate brain surgery on a man others are claiming is a mass murderer, who incidentally, Tenma has also been hunting with the intention of killing in cold blood? And they allow all of this with little to no incentive. Which is important - because previously, the show went to great lengths to use the same plot device when Tenma is apprehended by a village's local cop whose mother requires brain surgery, or else she'll die. Remove that personal thread, and things don't make sense. But that's how it ends.
What feels worse is that such a contrivance takes place for an ending that achieves a far lesser impact than if Tenma had just been arrested. Think about it - Johan's "perfect suicide" leaves him dead, another corpse among hundreds in the town, and there is no-one left to acquit Tenma, and so he is arrested. Johan is erased from existence as per his wishes, and Tenma gets locked up. It's not perfect, but it's better than the happy-go-lucky, Johan is saved, Tenma is acquitted, Nina and Reichwein and Dieter live happily ever after and once we've all had a little therapy - everyone's fine. Given the show's tone, that just feels off. I wouldn't mind it as much if the ending was at all satisfying in those other ways - less predictable, per se, or if we got the answers I wanted - but without those elements it just feels like being robbed of what could have been. It's really disappointing.
And Dieter - a good character, but talk about pointless? The writers seem to forget him entirely. For most of the show, he plays as a saving grace for Tenma and a symbol of purity in a dark world to redeem it and prevent Tenma from killing Johan. A character even mentions this to the audience mid-way through the show, telling Dieter to never leave Tenma's side and stop him from killing Johan. Dieter doesn't do that, good luck to the guy, but Tenma never shoots Johan anyway. So, what was the point in all that foreshadowing, then? He plays effectively no role in the plot, now, besides being a convenience for other characters to more easily reach certain locations or do certain things. He doesn't feel as much like a living, breathing person as if he would've played a larger, more impactful part in the narrative's ending.
Even with what few answers we have, I just wanted *more*. More depth, more understanding of the *why's* of Monster's universe. I get that the show wants to comment on concepts of Nature versus Nurture in a person's actions, but even within those parameters you can be vague and still answer questions. It's arguably more compelling to do so, as it stands right now, the lack of answers leads to a pretty boring conclusion. Why did Johan murder hundreds? The guy's got a screw loose. That's it. He went through some shit, but he was always a bit bonkers. It lacks depth. Wouldn't it be more compelling to have the audience question if the root was his nature or his circumstance? I feel it would be. Regardless, on no front did this ending land for me. It felt unrewarding, so much so that an anime I felt was easily going to achieve masterpiece status is just "really good" instead. No insult by any means, and I'd still highly recommend it. But instead of being one of my favourites, it really, really disappointed me with its underwritten, undersold, underbaked and undertold ending. A show like this has you watching for that one moment where the penny finally drops: you're hit with a twist, a drop of exposition or an unforeseen secret and suddenly, it all makes sense. It's inherent to the genre, mystery and suspense, but for either to actually work, pay-off is required, and no pay-off ever comes for Monster.
Edit: I just feel that a lot about the ending being satisfying for some people either involves glossing over important questions or seeking answers for them externally, through reddit threads and "ending explained" videos. The art should speak for itself; it shouldn't need your favourite YouTuber for it to make sense. One of the more prominent questions that wasn't answered: why did Johan's mother dress both the twins as female? It's the crux for the entire plot, yet it's never explained.
The tricky thing is that even with all the chips lying where they are, with a bit more actual *writing* I'd be satisfied. Answer some questions, leave just enough to the viewer's imagination, satisfying conclude certain character arcs, then call it a day. Monster doesn't do that, though.
Side note: I also see people pompously debating who the real "monster" was. Like, brother. Regardless of your experience it's not really acceptable to provoke racial conflicts, make orphan children kill each other and start a mini-civil war, assist in a couple suicides and kill innocent foster parents. The fact people are calling Johan "redeemable" is beyond me. Y'all are crazy man.
Those 65 episodes earn it an 8/10.
UncleWinkleDink said: you know this is like finding ciphers and complaining that "it should speak for itself" which is illogical.The art should speak for itself; it shouldn't need your favourite YouTuber for it to make sense. UncleWinkleDink said: to prevent them from easily choosing "give us the boy/girl".why did Johan's mother dress both the twins as female? UncleWinkleDink said: What pompous? The Real Monster is just Johan's dilemma. A perspective thing.I also see people pompously debating who the real "monster" was. From the show's perspective Johan is THE Monster of the story but the Real Monster question is from Johan's view about the final flashback. |
| wew what a show, there's so much to unpack here. I'm baffled by yet somehow understand the lukewarm reception to the ending; the culmination of Johan's character is subdued and open to interpretation. I don't know if people were expecting a major blow out or for Johan to actually be shot, but such an ending would have betrayed the series' themes & storytelling aesthetic. I love that the show continued trickling us information about Johan's past until the very last scene, and it may well be the most important bit in the series — Johan's distrust began with his mother, as such things always do. It's important to remember that Johan is still a 511 Kinderheim experiment. All of the Kinderheim experiments are uniquely fucked up, and they're all self-aware of how fucked up they are. They were made to forget their identities and have all sense of human emotion stripped from them. So the unique combination of eugenics and fucked up experiments Johan, specifically, was exposed to developed the perfect monster. He was born into extreme conditions, betrayed, abandoned, or abused by everyone, then subjected to unique experiments to bring out all of his worst characteristics. And so he becomes a sociopath weighted heavily with self-hatred; people do not exist in a real sense, they are abstract tools, and he likely derives a sense of satisfaction from manipulating and betraying their worst impulses against each other making them relive some of his own experiences. Because the Kinderheim victims are self-aware (as demonstrated by Grimmer), Johan knows he's fucked up ("Help, the monster inside me is growing bigger"), which ends in his goal to erase all existence of himself from the world; because of the Kinderheim experiments and how he views humans, everyone else is a casualty and whether anyone else is harmed is irrelevant. I imagine there's a beat somewhere inside him that seeks justice against those he felt created this world, but it could also be argued his "Perfect Suicide" is all he really cared about. And it all began when he witnessed his mother betray her own children, tugging at the thread which unraveled a world of hatred. Monster is a study on personal agency — how much control does a person really have over their life? We are a byproduct of our birth, of our environment, of our childhood, of our experiences, and there are intimate networks of things happening inside of us we have little-to-no control over that direct us toward our impulses. That is fate. Anyone could be Johan, and that's the purpose of his character. Honestly Johan is neck and neck with Emet-Selch as arguably my all time favorite antagonist, despite being completely different characters. Monster is about Johan; all of the other characters serve to expand Johan's story & character, even Tenma, and are more-or-less irrelevant otherwise. The way this intricate lore is built around his character (the eugenics program, Czech police, the mansion, the political conspiracies, everything), the way everything is revealed piecemeal to the audience over 74 episodes until the very last scene; Johan is the best written enigmatic antagonist I have ever seen, and it's all wrapped up in profound messages about human will (without needing to invoke epic battles against the gods) and empathy while deftly leaving some of its most important messages and events open to interpretation. Monster was the platonic 9 until the last two episodes. I was apprehensive about how the series would end, because nothing I imagined felt thematically consistent or satisfying, but against my expectations, it delivered the perfect ending rounding every character arc, and it left us open with something to digest and end the series how it began: uneasy, a little confused, and with the sense that nothing is quite right. The ending easily elevates it to a 10. |
 ☩ Discord: the.path.to.pathos ☩ RateYourMusic ☩ last.fm |
| What a dogshit series. Let me quickly sum up why it's shit: - main plotline is so weak, they're desperately trying to create a fake pretense of depth by adding as many side characters and loosely tying them to the overarching plot - it's too long and suffers from bad pacing; most of side characters' stories quickly become irrelevant and are being told to pad out the story, and to guide the main cast to their next destination - as the story goes on, they stopped caring to explain how half of the cast magically knows where to go next; this is especially true in episodes 45+ - the main antagonist is poorly written; we are not told why or how he kills, other than "HE IS LE ENIGMATIC AND LE EVIL MONSTER"; we are not told exactly how they experimented on him to turn him into what he is; his ambitions are vague and whimsical, making him a boring character; it's not explained why people follow his orders other than "HE IS LE CHARISMATIC AND LE PRETTY BOY"; it's not explained how he accidentally meets so many other psychopaths randomly on the street he can manipulate, making the story hard to believe; his reach and influence is not explained, other than "HE IS LE EVIL CHARISMATIC GENIUS" - Tenma is an annoying hypocritical moralfag and a boring character in general; he oscillates between "I must put an end to the monster" and "not being able to pull the trigger" and "being le depressed sad boy" - fake emotional manipulation; whenever the characters enter a building where Johan used to be, we hear this retarded "howling" or "screaming" or "monster noises" and we see the characters being terrified of "le monster" as if there's something supernatural out there (hint: there's not) - anticlimatic resolution, or lack thereof, which is especially insulting considering how fucking long the series is |
BigBoyAdvanceFeb 23, 10:35 AM
| So we finally get to see the their mother in the final episode. I was really hoping we'd see her in Prague but that was suddenly over. Especially because they made such a big point out of Karl's mother being friends with her. Well, that's better than what I expected to be honest. I kind of thought someone, maybe Johan, killed her. Although I guess we wont find out how or why she suddenly disappeared. That nightmare Tenma had in the hopsital was pretty creepy. Not gonna lie. Would have been more interesting if it was actually true and not solved as Tenma's "imagination". Serious question though. Why is this motherfucker not in a locked room yet. Don't even care if you put him into jail or psychiatric hospital. Just anywhere he cannot just walk out of freely. Honestly I expected it to happen but this finale over the last few episodes was kind of disappointing. The reasoning for Johan was this "perfect suicide". That at least explains why he killed all his previous caretakers. It doesn't really explain why he did his whole stint with Karl and his father. That was kind of weird anyway to be honest. If he wanted the perfect suicide then he was in Ruhenheim way too early. There were so many people that knew about him still alive (mainly the people related to Tenma and Nina in some way). Even if he succeeded in Ruhenheim there would still be people that remembered his existence. I'd say the last quarter of the show didn't live up to the built expectations unfortunately. Basically since the whole Martin, Eva, Tenma situation resolved. And especially the end felt a bit rushed which is surprising because they really took their time at a lot of points in the show. Everybody was just suddenly in Ruhenheim. How did Grimmer even find that place? And Tenma's approach was a bit far-fetched as well. As if this is the only place in the mountains with a village. I also would have loved to see Tenma return to some of the people that helped him on his journey. Like that doctor in the village early on. We only got to seem him once and only for a reaction to Tenma's confession. Or the guy that taught him about guns. So this leaves us with a lot of questions(too many to list but a lot of other people mentioned many of them already), missing re-visits to people he met along his way, not a whole lot of closure, and that cliffhanger at the end, which I'll pretend I didn't see. For real. This show was on a good way to 10/10 for the longest time. This resolution kind of took away a lot of it for me personally. I was hoping for something more interesting. Even the way Johan was shot kind of chickened out on the whole premise of the show. I would have preferred Johan not being shot because Tenma just couldn't do it over this weird pretending for ten seconds as if Tenma actually shot. |
NanashiMar 31, 6:27 AM
| Well this was a satisfying ending to a satisfying show cause the ending left to the viewers interpretation of what happened to Johan after that end. Short conclusion, I have my own nitpicks in this series but that didn't block me from giving a masterpiece of an anime 10/10. |
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| Episode after episode Monster continued to impress me from start to finish. I didnt know much about this show before watching except for what happened in the first episode, so i was coming in blind. Throughout this show we have met many and lost many amazing characters, from people who where here for an episode to people who were here for the long run. These last few episodes where truly special. From the episode dedicated to Mr Grimmer and the Magnificent Steiner where we got to learn more about him and see him move on, his death was truly tragic. Him and Lunge where the best side characters in this show. RIP Grimmer. Inspector Lunge, is a character im glad stuck around in this show. From start to finish he was always growing as a character along with him always being on Tenmas trail. His conclusion this last episode was nice and im glad hes keeping in touch with his family. This finale was beautiful, ending how it started with Tenma saving Johan through brain surgery. It was very unexpected. Throughout this entire show i thought Tenma was gonna be the one to shoot him but in the end he saved him once again and i personally loved the ending. Monster is truly amazing, thank you Naoki Urasawa. |
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| It's been quite the ride, but I've finally reached the end. It's pretty rare for a manga or anime to have satisfying ending, so I have to give credit where it's due. I'm 100% content with this final episode, that managed to tie most loose ends and imo solved one of its biggest mysteries by evoking what can only be assumed to be the root of Johan's nihilism. Tenma and Anna's discussion was welcome and more importantly, Johan's question was crucial to the ending despite being almost completely unexpected. I suppose the episode's title is meant to have several possible applications, whether it be Johan v. Nina (like the two sides of the monsters meeting at the end of the book) or Anna v. Poppe. The second one is more interesting imo as it asks the viewer who was the real monster between the murderous secret police agent who forced a mom to take one of her kids to the slaughterhouse and the mom who went ahead and did it but sent the wrong one by pure accident. As it was mentioned in earlier comments, this core memory provides a whole new perspective to Johan's murders of all his and Nina's caretakers : killing them before they ever had a chance to get rid of them or separate them like their biological mother did only made sense. Looking back, that memory was most likely what he was referring to in Ruhenheim when he mentioned a memory that was only his own, as Nina didn't seem to remember this specific detail about her mom's choice when she spazzed out in ep 72. The memory also gives additional meaning to Johan internalizing Nina's experiences in the villa : in his mind, he was meant to go there instead of her if it weren't for Anna confusing them, so it only made sense that he would make his twin's trauma his own. All that being said, Johan's question never being answered and the twins' names never being spoken out loud is fitting. Nina embracing the idea that people are building their identity through the memories they create everyday alongside others follows the conclusion reached by the monster who went West. Johan is more of a wild card since the grandiose end he envisioned for himself didn't happen. However, having watched Pluto a few months ago, and given how triumphant Tenma's ideas have been, I can't see the final scene as anything negative. It's a (literally) open end but it's filled with hope. All in all, I'm very very happy to have experienced such a quality show. It was a little slow at times due to the episodic nature of a good portion of the anime and some narrative choices were a little questionable but overall it's a solid 8,5/10. |
| Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
Reply to Sapewloth
It's been quite the ride, but I've finally reached the end.
It's pretty rare for a manga or anime to have satisfying ending, so I have to give credit where it's due. I'm 100% content with this final episode, that managed to tie most loose ends and imo solved one of its biggest mysteries by evoking what can only be assumed to be the root of Johan's nihilism.
Tenma and Anna's discussion was welcome and more importantly, Johan's question was crucial to the ending despite being almost completely unexpected. I suppose the episode's title is meant to have several possible applications, whether it be Johan v. Nina (like the two sides of the monsters meeting at the end of the book) or Anna v. Poppe. The second one is more interesting imo as it asks the viewer who was the real monster between the murderous secret police agent who forced a mom to take one of her kids to the slaughterhouse and the mom who went ahead and did it but sent the wrong one by pure accident.
As it was mentioned in earlier comments, this core memory provides a whole new perspective to Johan's murders of all his and Nina's caretakers : killing them before they ever had a chance to get rid of them or separate them like their biological mother did only made sense. Looking back, that memory was most likely what he was referring to in Ruhenheim when he mentioned a memory that was only his own, as Nina didn't seem to remember this specific detail about her mom's choice when she spazzed out in ep 72.
The memory also gives additional meaning to Johan internalizing Nina's experiences in the villa : in his mind, he was meant to go there instead of her if it weren't for Anna confusing them, so it only made sense that he would make his twin's trauma his own.
All that being said, Johan's question never being answered and the twins' names never being spoken out loud is fitting. Nina embracing the idea that people are building their identity through the memories they create everyday alongside others follows the conclusion reached by the monster who went West.
Johan is more of a wild card since the grandiose end he envisioned for himself didn't happen. However, having watched Pluto a few months ago, and given how triumphant Tenma's ideas have been, I can't see the final scene as anything negative. It's a (literally) open end but it's filled with hope.
All in all, I'm very very happy to have experienced such a quality show. It was a little slow at times due to the episodic nature of a good portion of the anime and some narrative choices were a little questionable but overall it's a solid 8,5/10.
It's pretty rare for a manga or anime to have satisfying ending, so I have to give credit where it's due. I'm 100% content with this final episode, that managed to tie most loose ends and imo solved one of its biggest mysteries by evoking what can only be assumed to be the root of Johan's nihilism.
Tenma and Anna's discussion was welcome and more importantly, Johan's question was crucial to the ending despite being almost completely unexpected. I suppose the episode's title is meant to have several possible applications, whether it be Johan v. Nina (like the two sides of the monsters meeting at the end of the book) or Anna v. Poppe. The second one is more interesting imo as it asks the viewer who was the real monster between the murderous secret police agent who forced a mom to take one of her kids to the slaughterhouse and the mom who went ahead and did it but sent the wrong one by pure accident.
As it was mentioned in earlier comments, this core memory provides a whole new perspective to Johan's murders of all his and Nina's caretakers : killing them before they ever had a chance to get rid of them or separate them like their biological mother did only made sense. Looking back, that memory was most likely what he was referring to in Ruhenheim when he mentioned a memory that was only his own, as Nina didn't seem to remember this specific detail about her mom's choice when she spazzed out in ep 72.
The memory also gives additional meaning to Johan internalizing Nina's experiences in the villa : in his mind, he was meant to go there instead of her if it weren't for Anna confusing them, so it only made sense that he would make his twin's trauma his own.
All that being said, Johan's question never being answered and the twins' names never being spoken out loud is fitting. Nina embracing the idea that people are building their identity through the memories they create everyday alongside others follows the conclusion reached by the monster who went West.
Johan is more of a wild card since the grandiose end he envisioned for himself didn't happen. However, having watched Pluto a few months ago, and given how triumphant Tenma's ideas have been, I can't see the final scene as anything negative. It's a (literally) open end but it's filled with hope.
All in all, I'm very very happy to have experienced such a quality show. It was a little slow at times due to the episodic nature of a good portion of the anime and some narrative choices were a little questionable but overall it's a solid 8,5/10.
| @Sapewloth The end is not open, it's ambigious, they are different things. And in Another Monster we learn Johan is still in the hospital yet the murders continue. |
| I had longer reply, but my browser broke and it is gone.. ;/ So the story was good, but the ending was not. Johan should not be left alive, just to make Tenma not a killer.. but it was that drunk father who shot so Johan should be left dead.. then maybe his consciousness transferred into Anna. Showing some demonic or fraternal twins unexplained then things. Or at least in prison, but not in just simple empty hospital room without guards! unbelievable! First Johan powers are never explained. For me it is obvious he was devil/demon, but it it only mentioned like by Lunge when he said only demon can leave no trace of him. I already said many times that Johan powers are not something even the smartest person can do. Like knowing other people past (even if researched some things are impossible to known as only the owners of memories know it), knowing what and when someone will do something, like Tenma trying to kill Johan and he knows exactly when and from what exact place.. that is not possible for human. The anime does not explain it at all. Another thing is Anna memories. In this episode it was shown that it was Anna sent for experiment, but it was only inside of Tenma head when he see Johan wake up, which did not happen at all. So it is not reliable information as Tenma could not know this fact that the mother dressed up both twins as girls to hide the fact that she is living with twins there, it was mentioned even by that person Tenma questioned on street in front of 3 frogs, he said that there was only one kid and he don't remember if was a boy or girl. Tenma maybe knew there were twins but he couldn't know they were dressed up as girls. He wasn't told that by their mother nor he knew that Johan dressed up as Anna in mid of stroy in Prague.. This also prove that Johan had demonic power as he likely projected his vision into Tenma mind. Same way he made other people kill everyone during the story. That is not possible for normal human. Either demon or psychic powers. For example Grimmer is likely to have become berserk and endure the pain during his crazy times. That is very possible. Roberto part is also little strange when revealed at the end, but whatever.. It shows that author lost ideas how to end this story after 60-70 episode. Manga got only 162 chapters so I doubt it is explained better. OP was good and very climatic. Ed was there just to be.. showing next pages of the book. It was first time I skipped most of the OP ED! I never done that in any anime before, even not in Naruto! I like how characters are introduced and their backstories shown, but some of them felt unnecessary and wasted scree time. That books were also not explained why they had such power in them to change the kids.. Everything in this story is just left for us to theorize, but thats not good. It is better for just the ending like "did they survive?" "did they get married?" or such things left to be theorized, but not most important topics which the story evolved around.. Lunge, Tenma, both psychiatrist and Anna should be enough to show every little detail of everything.. The story from 10/10 went to 7/10 for me. |
Thyriad-oPPailovJun 23, 7:13 AM
| (づ￣ ³￣)づ ちゅっ ちゅっ キス (´｡✪ω✪｡｀) I hate it when anime/manga that I enjoyed ends, especially when there could be much longer plot and when I love main heroine :P I wish I had magic glasses that let me see real world in anime colors ;) |
Reply to JoeChip
@Sapewloth
The end is not open, it's ambigious, they are different things. And in Another Monster we learn Johan is still in the hospital yet the murders continue.
The end is not open, it's ambigious, they are different things. And in Another Monster we learn Johan is still in the hospital yet the murders continue.
| @JoeChip what another Monster? I don't see anything on MAL |
| (づ￣ ³￣)づ ちゅっ ちゅっ キス (´｡✪ω✪｡｀) I hate it when anime/manga that I enjoyed ends, especially when there could be much longer plot and when I love main heroine :P I wish I had magic glasses that let me see real world in anime colors ;) |
Reply to Thyriad-oPPailov
@JoeChip what another Monster? I don't see anything on MAL
| @Thyriad-oPPailov https://obluda.fandom.com/wiki/Another_Monster |
Reply to JoeChip
@Sapewloth
The end is not open, it's ambigious, they are different things. And in Another Monster we learn Johan is still in the hospital yet the murders continue.
The end is not open, it's ambigious, they are different things. And in Another Monster we learn Johan is still in the hospital yet the murders continue.
| @JoeChip That might be due to me being ESL but in French an open end is quite literally ambiguous, but thanks for the correction (again), I guess. I had no idea about "Another Monster". |
| Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
| The end. I was honestly shocked when Johan suddenly woke up from his sleep and looked at Tenma like that. So that's what happened. Johan felt that in the end, all "the world" needed was Nina, because at that time they were both Nina. Then, maybe what Nina meant by "I forgive you" was that because Johan was being Nina and their mother didn't know, so Nina was the one who was chosen to enter the Red Rose Mansion. ...but then Tenma regains consciousness from his fear and we see Johan still asleep? I don't really understand this part. When exactly did Johan say that? And why was Tenma so scared? I'm glad to see everyone living happily, including Eva. Although, Johan runs away again. Only this time he ran away alone, not with Nina. I wonder where he went. Oh, and their real names. Edit: Oh wait. Is there any possibility of Johan going to find his mother to ask her that? I don't think Johan can live a quiet life, but I think maybe if he can get an answer to that, it will help his existence... as a human being? |
hanakocheeksJul 27, 10:27 AM
 |
Reply to hanakocheeks
The end.
I was honestly shocked when Johan suddenly woke up from his sleep and looked at Tenma like that. So that's what happened. Johan felt that in the end, all "the world" needed was Nina, because at that time they were both Nina. Then, maybe what Nina meant by "I forgive you" was that because Johan was being Nina and their mother didn't know, so Nina was the one who was chosen to enter the Red Rose Mansion.
...but then Tenma regains consciousness from his fear and we see Johan still asleep? I don't really understand this part. When exactly did Johan say that? And why was Tenma so scared?
I'm glad to see everyone living happily, including Eva. Although, Johan runs away again. Only this time he ran away alone, not with Nina. I wonder where he went. Oh, and their real names.
Edit: Oh wait. Is there any possibility of Johan going to find his mother to ask her that? I don't think Johan can live a quiet life, but I think maybe if he can get an answer to that, it will help his existence... as a human being?
I was honestly shocked when Johan suddenly woke up from his sleep and looked at Tenma like that. So that's what happened. Johan felt that in the end, all "the world" needed was Nina, because at that time they were both Nina. Then, maybe what Nina meant by "I forgive you" was that because Johan was being Nina and their mother didn't know, so Nina was the one who was chosen to enter the Red Rose Mansion.
...but then Tenma regains consciousness from his fear and we see Johan still asleep? I don't really understand this part. When exactly did Johan say that? And why was Tenma so scared?
I'm glad to see everyone living happily, including Eva. Although, Johan runs away again. Only this time he ran away alone, not with Nina. I wonder where he went. Oh, and their real names.
Edit: Oh wait. Is there any possibility of Johan going to find his mother to ask her that? I don't think Johan can live a quiet life, but I think maybe if he can get an answer to that, it will help his existence... as a human being?
| @hanakocheeks Johan does not run away that's left vague on purpose and according to Another Mıonster he is still in the hospital. |
| This was a masterpiece everything about it was amazing the ending left me a bit confused will be back after watching a few ending explained videos |
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