Shingeki no Kyojin: The Final Season Part 2 Episode 10 Discussion

Xilver said:

People support Eren, yeagerisits are ultimately his faction, so people support yeagerists. I myself rooted for him while reading the manga ongoing, because he's just a far superior character to anyone from the alliance, he's much more interesting. I ultimately wanted a good story, which it seemed like only Eren could deliver last year of the manga's runtime. Which doesn't mean i didn't think yeagerists were depicted as clowns, because they were.
Part of the volunteers wanted mini-rumbling and with the help of paradis reclaiming their independence, paradis was also interested in the buffer states. The other part of them were with Yelena and wanted euthanization. Both of those groups weren't really yagerists.
You can write the story in a way that their do fit the bill, for one you don't have to depict yeagerists as so bloodthirsty. Helping the enemy to take down Eren and basically leave paradis defenseless isn't exactly something any of them wants. And some of them can definitely be won over.
Connie would definitely suffice and him dying there cannot ever be compared to bringing back background characters from s1 and having them killed. As far as cheapness is concerned, there truly cannot be a comparison here.

The very fact that you need to resort to general conflict of alliance with Eren proves how worthless yeagerists themselves are. But yes, which is why during these chapters ongoing in the manga, i didn't hate them, they were a 3/5 for me, i still had all of my complaints, but i could look forward to the biggest conflict itself, and that was a mistake, i should have realized from these chapters where the writing is going. Looking at these parts retrospectively, this kind of stuff is what ultimately caused that ending.


They literally had an avengers assembled posing moment few episodes ago, not heroes my ass. Yes heroes can have blood on their hands, as long as the show treats them as the heroes who must save the world.
Moment of hesitation with RB is irrelevant, stop bringing it up. We're talking about actual schism within paradis with all the sides having determination and knowing what they fight for. Mikasa is a solider who will kill in war, all of them are, all of them will if needed.
But i see you're just going to ignore the problem here, you're going to refuse to see it no matter what. So i'm no longer going to waste our mutual time. And i hope you're not too devastated to see the great Samuel and the legendary Daz gone.


I'm referring to anyone relevant. I'm referring to anyone who is not a complete background character from season fucking 1.
It's very much possible, it's just needs to be written better, Eren's decisions has to make more sense. And they should be in a scenario of it's either us or them, will you help the enemy, cause the genocide of your own people, and render all the sacrifices prior and hell they went through in first 3 season meaningless. Or will you fight for your own people's future. The story as it's written never makes any of that clear, because there is an alternative plan which prevents the genocide of either side, alliance opposes Eren without ever truly arguing about his rejection of 50 year plan. That's just straight up bad. It's as if they know they are characters in a story so they can move this way knowing that it will all end up just fine.
Jean is fucking working with people who directly killed fucking Marco without any real plan to secure paradis after Eren is down. That's not exactly rational, that path is not in any shape or form given. Things changed once Eren started the rumbling, because before they could still hope, but now Eren proved that the world was right about Eldians being the devils, at that point you have to consider your options. You can't start a world genocide and then say "Just kidding, hehe, oops, please don't come kill us all". A that point some of the members could definitely be swayed away towards Eren, because really there is no alternative for them anymore.

FMmatron said:


This is a laughably inadequate comparison since Eren wants to kill the entire population including countless innocent people, wanting to stop that is absolutely understandable. It's not like Connie shot Daz in cold blood. He was struggling with tears in his eyes and lost it. There wasn't much of a choice when Daz and Samuel got in the way of their mission. Besides, another second of hesitation could've costed his and Armins life. I will admit, tho, shooting Samuel was overkill and seemed to happen in the heat of the moment. Alas, they're soldiers and if you pick up a weapon you gotta be ready to face the consequences.

zerotitan said:
I understand your complaint basically is Isayama should have given more time on the last arc and expanded on the conflict, Eren's decision and Alliance formation to make everything more convincing which is fair on your part but I see that as your subjective criticism. Because I never felt the need for more explanation for Eren's decision making more sense, or to give more time for Alliance because in my opinion Eren chose what he chose made sense for me the moment it was revealed and all the factors leading him up to that point were enough for me to digest that. Then Alliance formation in the first read did look very superficial and rushed but I realized that it had to be rushed, they didn't really had time to work out on mitigating their differences over the past, if they had to try and stop Eren, they will have to join forces fast keeping their past differences aside as what's done is done. Eren literally killed , if they spent any more time then they did then perhaps there wouldn't have been any meaning in them coming together at all since Eren would have wiped entire humanity. So they had to cast their differences aside in a rushed way and the portrayal of this by Isayama would naturally look rushed. I personally don't have any problem with alliance chapters neither am I rooting for them or Eren but I think that the conflict shown was enough for the getting the meaning across the audience, yes rushed but definitely not bad and makes enough sense.

Xilver said:

I meant the plan has to make more sense for everyone else as well. It doesn't make sense to become a yeagerist when you can go with the 50 year plan, unless you're a bloodthristy maniac. Which is why 50 year plan must be rendered impossible, and not just rejected by Eren not wanting to sacrifice Historia, for god knows what reason. Everyone thought he's in love with Historia for a reason. He's wayy too overprotective about her. It doesn't exactly make sense, but i guess there were some other factors too. So it can still somewhat be justified Eren doing what he did, but it doesn't make sense for anyone else to follow him in wanting the genocide the world. I'm not sure Isayama even realized this problem when he created yeagerists. Not everyone is Eren, not everyone has his spirit, and not everyone are so protective over Historia, in fact Eren is the only Eren.
So of course the story has to be rewritten somewhat. If the world genocide happens, and i get my wish of important characters joining yeagerists, then it truly has to be a choice between kill or get killed, with no possible alternatives like the 50 year plan.

zerotitan said:
50 Year plan comes with its fair share of uncertainties.

Xilver said:

Yes, that's life, just because future is uncertain doesn't mean you must exterminate anything that can potentially harm you. That's insanity. And i don't believe yeagerists are just insane maniacs, they just come off like that because of flaws in writing.
That problems with 50 year plan are also an argument for its sake. Technology is catching up? - Exactly, which means titans won't be this unstoppable force, hence the fear and wary of titans will wane over time. 50 year is a long enough time for a new generation to come, which has weaponry that surpass the dangers of titans, that generation will no longer fear eldians as much. At the same time paradis will be modernizing and seeking allies in a world where marley was being big bad empire for 100 years.
Repeating the same cycle of children eating parents for protection is a proper conclusion of cycle of children eating parents for world domination. You did that for power for centuries, now do it for peace.
The plan is definitely better than "let's just destroy the world".

DomineLkira said:

Who exactly do you mean by "Marleyans"? There are good and understanding marleyans like the guards trying to protect gabi even with their lives and not treat her harshly even when she is an eldian and there are evil marleyans who feed an innocent child to a group of dogs. Or by marleyans you just mean the warriors cause they technically are marlyean because they were born there and lived in that nation? They are more grey because while they were brainwashed as kids their main motive of being a warrior was just to achieve their own goals (being an honorary marlyean and save family yada yada). There is no such nuance with the yeagerists. They are evil terrorists who are very bad and suck or whatever.

I guess yeagerists are a mirror of marleyans because they too are just trying to save themselves by genociding the other race? Its very surface level tho. And yet the problem I mentioned has nothing to do with them being a mirror of marleyans.

Helltaker said:
So far the worst episode in AOT.
Everything went downhill after the creation of the alliance.
They are essentially doing the same thing that Eren is doing with a difference being that Eren is fighting to protect his own people while they are betraying and killing their friends and people in order to protect those who want them and the rest of Eldians dead.
At this point it's questionable why does alliance even exists since they don't have a problem with end justifies the means ideology or killing innocent people to get their way.
So why are they against Eren again?

Helltaker said:
"We must exterminate all Yeagerists" - Mikasa

sammymahesh said:
But Samuel and Daz were not portrayed evil nor Louise. I can also say the same thing about Yeagerists. Have you ever been to India? Read about religious conflicts in India. The way the extremism has been portrayed in the story, it's very real. I have witnessed violence in 2020. I had never even in my life thought even my friends would be extremists. The portrayal is very realistic.

imbAF said:


But you don't seem concerned with the world wanting to kill every single eldian. That's not a genocide I guess, right? Or is it and it's wrong? And something should be done to prevent that, and if killing the people who want to kill you is no good, then how does Paradis survive? Clue me in

DomineLkira said:

Idk about that man. All that scene showed was that Samuel and Daz are hesitant to kill their old friends. Many times even the most evil person cares about their friends and family. And honestly, the only Yeagerist that is focused on is Floch and my previous comment mentioned how I didnt like how he was portrayed. A villain with motivations like him could have been portrayed a lot better than a power hungry fascist piece of shit who likes to uhhhh kill people? I liked him when he was just an opposing perspective to the trio (calling them out for saving armin instead of erwin) instead of the mustache twirling villain we have right now. Its like Isayama just cant write a character opposing our precious trio without making him a complete villain.
Like man I dont think its hard to see that Isayama is painting the Yeagerists as the side you are SUPPOSED to hate. There is barely any nuance here, Alliance are the heroes and the other side villains. You need to get blood on your hands and even kill your old friends to get rid of this evil.
A story like attack on titan having a big bad final villain with our heroes teaming up and "save the world" or whatever just sucks. Bro in the "save the world" panel in the manga the alliance look like they are posing with light shining down on them through the windows. Thank god atleast the anime framed that scene a lot better.

Xilver said:

Yes, absolutely, they are intentionally made into clowns. But i don't like it. I don't believe it's good for the story at all to present one of its two major sides as just idiot-evil-useless-clowns. It cheapens the entire series, and the conflict itself. This series used to respect the conflicting forces, always.
And yes, i do agree that from meta perspective it's Isayama taking a jab on what is generally known as the far right. And that is also something i don't like, and makes me respect his writing less.

You are also correct about the author not really leaving a room for disagreement about which side is right, at least aesthetically.
All i can add to this is that the clowning is not going to stop on the yeagerists themselves. The king clown is on the way.

Korixus said:
Don't read the manga so don't imagine what's coming up but I honestly can't see how this story will end in two episodes...

DomineLkira said:

Who exactly do you mean by "Marleyans"? There are good and understanding marleyans like the guards trying to protect gabi even with their lives and not treat her harshly even when she is an eldian and there are evil marleyans who feed an innocent child to a group of dogs. Or by marleyans you just mean the warriors cause they technically are marlyean because they were born there and lived in that nation? They are more grey because while they were brainwashed as kids their main motive of being a warrior was just to achieve their own goals (being an honorary marlyean and save family yada yada). There is no such nuance with the yeagerists. They are evil terrorists who are very bad and suck or whatever.

I guess yeagerists are a mirror of marleyans because they too are just trying to save themselves by genociding the other race? Its very surface level tho. And yet the problem I mentioned has nothing to do with them being a mirror of marleyans.

Jke03 said:
Wait... wasn't this terrible animation in multiple scenes? Did that not bother anyone else? WIT could have done a much better job. This episode it was outright distracting, unlike previous episodes in this season.

Goofy scenes like Armin and Connie's eyes both dropping to the bottom left simultaneously. And when Mikasa jumped down those stairs... the dudes all got their heads shot really unnaturally? It just did not look right at all. I really could go on, but I am super surprised it didn't seem to bother others here?

Julle said:


YES, thank you. Someone else who noticed. It was utter shit this episode ngl. So many lazy animation scenes this episode. Recent episodes have been lacking tbh but this one def stood out the most.

Jke03 said:


Yeah I thought I hallucinated it and had to go back and watch scenes from the first season. The way they move their arms rigidly and hardly move when others talk is really strange compared to Wit's animation. Such a shame.

Julle said:
Has Studio Deen taken over the production?