Do you think mushoku tensei can become a mainstream Anime

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Feb 2021

399

Ceoneichi said:

FZREMAKE said:

This might be the reason why it wont get mainstream. Or even if it will, it will be full of hate.

I remember a certain series which is even more extreme than mushoku tensei called Game of thrones is popular

Game of Thrones didn't have any of the good guys assault children, it clearly laid out what was and was not acceptable behavior for the characters you were supposed to root for. I don't think it would have been as popular if Jon Snow was going around molesting little boys.

Dec 17, 2021 4:55 PM

#104

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Feb 2021

399

dabdabgoose said:

ghier said:

Well, yes, but everything that transpires in scene is still what you see. Books and novels are first person when events are described entirely through the eyes and ears of a character. With a show, we get to see and hear it all happen for ourselves. Just b/c Rudeus is always there and we get to listen in on his thoughts does not make the show entirely first person. Typically, you wouldn’t even use that phrase for a show.

And besides, Rudy’s perspective isn’t the only thing that is trying to convey humor.

Do you understand the difference between a first person and a 3rd person story when shown?

It doesn't just have to be shown from eyes only to be one, without insight into thoughts that's a 3rd person view because you don't have the extra information from their perspective.

Nope. First-person POV is exclusively "I" based. Third-person narration can provide insight into the thoughts of others, whether that is third-person omniscient (you can see what EVERYONE is thinking) or third-person limited (you can only see what one specific character is thinking). Those are both forms of third-person. First-person is only a factor when you are using "I" and the "character" is narrating directly to the audience, hence getting a "first-hand" recount of the story.

Dec 17, 2021 4:59 PM

#105

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Jul 2018

561867

Most likely not since it's not shounen and it's not getting hype which is good thing.

Dec 17, 2021 5:24 PM

#106

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Feb 2021

399

Yohanluie1001 said:

MugenNoShirayuki said:

Game of Thrones didn't have any of the good guys assault children, it clearly laid out what was and was not acceptable behavior for the characters you were supposed to root for. I don't think it would have been as popular if Jon Snow was going around molesting little boys.

A good story not always need to told about good guys

If you talk about the story have morale maybe we can say different

Good plot =/= good morale
This was fiction
Not a Bible

A story Adolf Hitler killing Jews sound interesting

And that's fine for you, what I'm saying is that if Game of Thrones had made their heroic characters be morally reprehensible child-rapists, it would not have gotten nearly the mainstream popularity that it did, because most mainstream audiences don't want to root for a child molester as their MC, even in their fiction, and whether or not Rudy is a "good guy" the narrative is still crafted with the intention that the viewer wants to see him succeed and grow.

For example, take Breaking Bad. This is an exceptional piece of television with great popularity, starring a character who is most certainly not a "good guy". And yet the narrative is still crafted in such a way that it makes you want to root for him in spite of that, because of how it frames his actions and the context they're put in, as well as with the allure of grit. Mushoku Tensei is the same way, the viewers knows Rudy is a bad person, but because he gets the focus of the narrative and the story is about HIS conflicts and HIS issues, the audience is conditioned to still support him even while finding his actions themselves reprehensible.

But where people are fine with doing that for drug dealers and murderers to an extent, because of how sensationalized those plots are, a child molester would not have the same mainstream appeal, and a big part of that is rooted in the subjective morality of the world around the main character.

Walt's primary opponents in Breaking Bad, for example, are usually either other drug dealers or people in that world, who we don't mind him killing, or police officers who he outsmarts. Those are all people who we can imagine rooting him on against, even if we feel a little like the bad guy. But now imagine if instead of Breaking Bad taking place in a gritty setting where Walt fights against rival drug kingpins, it's the story of him pushing drugs on unsuspecting, vulnerable children. Or even a story about a serial killer, following him as he preys on the innocent. It stops becoming a story of conflict and becomes a story of predators and victimization. It's easy to root for a character who has engaging conflicts. It's a lot harder to root for them when they victimize those who can't defend themselves.

Mainstream audiences can handle and enjoy dark themes and gritty subject matter, but only to a point. Once the protagonist really starts crossing ethical lines about what SHOULD be "allowed" for a protagonist to do to remain in the audience's favor, it becomes a question of how far is too far. Throwing a molotov into a gang member's care? Fine. Throwing a molotov into a school bus? Problematic. People, on the whole, don't like the idea of following a character doing horrific deeds to innocents, because it makes them uncomfortable to see. And whatever the quality of how MT handles its subject matter, it can't be denied that:

1. Rudy is the protagonist, the person who the story follows, and whose conflicts we see.
2. Rudy's perspective of children and what he wants to do to them is not acceptable behavior in real life.

Whether or not the "it's fiction, it's not real" argument is valid doesn't matter, because yes, we know it's not real. But that doesn't mean that people won't be uncomfortable with it. I know that seeing someone getting their guts graphically ripped apart by a rusty chainsaw in a slasher movie isn't "real", that no one really "died". But the visuals are still grotesque enough to cause a visceral reaction, even if someone consciously knows it's fake. And for many people following a pedophile will be that exact visceral reaction, because it reminds us that the character the narrative says we're supposed to be rooting for is sexually attracted to children, and for most people pedophilia triggers an immediate, visceral negative reaction.

Dec 17, 2021 5:59 PM

#107

LeidTH

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May 2021

48

Yohanluie1001 said:
Before you pointing about ecchi jokes involving young Eris

Another anime have same jokes

Even Nobita try peep Shizuka in bath many times
Or flipping the pants many times

A lot of anime also involving underage children sex

Mushoku Tensei only become bold about this

This series really can't come mainstream

It's need to be labeled
The series not for children, teenagers, or adult with mental disability that get influenced easily by an anime or movies

A work tends to convey both positive and negative messages and whether or not we are all influenced by what we watch and consume, that said, works tend to show us reflections and self-criticism on a certain subject and in Mushoku this is not done, they are jokes of a sexual nature and a protagonist who is pervert and does not suffer consequences or reprisals from anyone. Nobody wants to prohibit or censor anything, but there are things that need to be criticized and not defended or omitted or to be connived with these attitudes. Moral boundaries, which is more critical and acceptable: A well-written villain that everyone likes or an immoral character who has many flaws and doesn't have a scene of self-reflection and self-questioning?

Dec 17, 2021 6:58 PM

#108

Kenn024

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Apr 2021

34

4Trevos said:

Yohanluie1001 said:
Before you pointing about ecchi jokes involving young Eris

Another anime have same jokes

Even Nobita try peep Shizuka in bath many times
Or flipping the pants many times

A lot of anime also involving underage children sex

Mushoku Tensei only become bold about this

This series really can't come mainstream

It's need to be labeled
The series not for children, teenagers, or adult with mental disability that get influenced easily by an anime or movies

A work tends to convey both positive and negative messages and whether or not we are all influenced by what we watch and consume, that said, works tend to show us reflections and self-criticism on a certain subject and in Mushoku this is not done, they are jokes of a sexual nature and a protagonist who is pervert and does not suffer consequences or reprisals from anyone. Nobody wants to prohibit or censor anything, but there are things that need to be criticized and not defended or omitted or to be connived with these attitudes. Moral boundaries, which is more critical and acceptable: A well-written villain that everyone likes or an immoral character who has many flaws and doesn't have a scene of self-reflection and self-questioning?

That's quite interesting but when it comes to the question itself, It all comes to the writing of the series. A villain would be called well-written if the writing of the character is great enough to be called well-written by a mass of people.
The immorality of the character particularly the protagonist of the series will come with love and hate about that character. Would that character will be liked by a mass of people or hated by a mass of people?
Should these characters have self-reflection or self-questioning? it all comes to the understanding of the writing itself.

If you take the example from Nobita and Rudeus, it would be incomparable.
Why would it? because the writing from both of the series is supposed to be a stand-alone episode or movie like family guy and south park. The flaw of Nobita itself is the characteristic of his personality. He may develop from that character in one episode or movie but that's all. His development will be gone in the next episode or movie.

Rudeus's personality is developed through the series and when it comes to self-reflection and self-questioning, he has done that part great, and how great it is will come together to audience perspective whether he's developed enough or not.
To be a reminder that his pervent personality isn't the thing that he will develop but there's a time where he will be horny or he will serious about certain situations.

Now if you look at Nobita's behavior when he peeks at Shizuka in the bath, it is undoubtedly bad behavior. He isn't developed from that habit and Shizuka seems annoyed by his behavior. It seems that pretty weird that there's a time that I laugh at this event when I read it as a child but I can't laugh and take this seriously when I was an adult.

Dec 17, 2021 7:21 PM

#109

27thEiffel

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Aug 2021

424

If Mushoku Tensei became mainstream, it will have a lot of hate

Dec 17, 2021 8:20 PM

#110

Aronics

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Jul 2021

467

Ecchi and Isekai don't usually become mainstream

Dec 17, 2021 8:23 PM

#111

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Aug 2019

1498

Kind of upset and dejected that the arguments I started ended b/c the people I was arguing with stopped responding :(. Common y'all, keep it going. I look forward to these arguments about the morality in how a cartoon depicts an adult in a child's body ... sexually assaulting an actual child. Don't you just love directly challenging yourself in arguments with others? ... to see if you've actually been a hypocrite the whole time you've been watching shows like this? I know I do, even though it's draining as f*ck all lol.

Dec 17, 2021 8:33 PM

#112

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Aug 2019

1498

Ceoneichi said:

ghier said:

Ceoneichi said:

ghier said:

Ceoneichi said:

ghier said:

Ceoneichi said:

ghier said:

Ceoneichi said:

ghier said:

dabdabgoose said:
Probably not, because the type of people that this show would attract from a material standpoint, don't really watch anime.

Where as a big chunk of anime fans(from a general standpoint) atleast at this stage are too milk toast to handle confronting things without trying to self insert some morality, GoT was far worse in this regard but it appealed to older people being a live action.

Apologies for any offense in advance. I’m trying to be as objective as I can in explaining this.

I think you’re ignoring presentation. A “funny” moment when the show teases revealing the crotch of what looks to be a what, 7 year old? … is different from just showing a character doing immoral things. If an audience member found that funny as the show presented it rather than uncomfortable (at the very least) then there is a problem. That moment, and some others, should not be presented as funny. It just doesn’t come across as if the show is acknowledging this “trait” of Rudeus’ as a major flaw. Instead, it helps to normalize it.

It's because Rudy was the 7yr old mc and his intention wasn't to rape Eris, even though he maybe was and still the scum at that time he will not do anything which will get him jailed.Those scenes where there to show how much Rudy still has to develop and to make aware us viewers aware how bad his situation.

And it was presented in funny way because it was Rudy's pov

Idk man. Whenever a production goes through the trouble to make something look funny, that usually means they want people to laugh at the scene. They don’t have to put in this shining effect to make it look like something amazing, but they did because it makes the moment appear more comedic. And I was referring to the scene with the demon empress; she prolly looks closer to five than seven tbh. But there are plenty of scenes with Eris that are also ridiculous.

You can’t forget the fact that Rudeus is an adult in life experience. The age of his body doesn’t mean jack shit when it comes to how he should act. Don’t tell me it wasn’t his intention either; he’s already sexually assaulted her quite intentionally with that horrendous nipple grab. Like jeez man.

I guess you didn't get my point yet, those scenes looks funny because it's Rudy's pov and at that he was at the lowest

And what's with you people saying all the time he is 40yr old,his life on earth has ended just accept this fact,he is now reincarnated as Rudeus Greyrat and he will live in this world like a human of that world now,so obviously he will get a girl he like and have a family with her. Will you even then say he is 40yr old.

Rudy’s POV huh? Tell me, how exactly did you feel watching that scene? Be honest and reflect on the experience first, then try to put it in words. Maybe watch it again if you need to.

Here is my experience: To me, it didn’t at all feel like the show was presenting Rudy at his lowest or even with an independent viewpoint; it felt like it was trying to get me to laugh as if it were a more lighthearted moment. Watching the scene leads me into that feeling of lightheartedness, which then turns into a very uncomfortable feeling b/c I consciously realize this scene shouldn’t be lighthearted. What would the effect be on me if I didn’t have that conscious realization? What would the implication be if I pushed aside that conscious realization? And does the show not push me to put that realization aside by making these scenes “lighthearted”?

I mean I accept he was reborn with like 30 years life experience. That’s the fact. That in of itself is not a problem. The problem is he’s trying to get with children (sometimes without consent) without a thought of how wrong it may be, and the show is almost taking Rudy’s side on this (from my perspective) with these “lighthearted” moments … as if he’s just an honest pervert.

It’s only natural I find all of this distasteful being that I acknowledge and agree with laws that prohibit such relations b/w adults and children. To discredit your point about him being reborn, to me, those laws are not just in place b/c an adult’s body is far more mature than a child’s.

To test if you might actually agree with this, here is a thought experiment for you. If you no longer aged after turning say … 16, 17 … would it be perfectly okay for you to date 15 year-olds, maybe even a bit younger, for the rest of your eternal life?
If no, why is this any different ethically from Rudy’s situation? Why does being reborn just wipe away all of his life experience?
If yes, … well, I don’t really have anything more to say. We just have different moral guidelines. I’d like to try and convince you to think differently, but that would be challenging to do in a forum.

Ok let me tell you something which you don't know, mushoku tensei light novel tells the story 90% from Rudy's pov and studio bind is just giving justice to ln by making it from Rudy's pov and that's All there's to it.what we see is what Rudy is feeling and it is not done for making it light hearted or anything.If Rudy find something okay even through it is wrong,it will presented in funny way since Rudy is having fun with it and it's upto us to judge him.And I'm repeating this again mushoku tensei story is told 90% from Rudy's pov,since this simple thing you aren't understanding.

And to if satisfy people like you by making those Eris scenes uncomfortable then it will had been injustice to the source material and Rudy's character.Studio bind is doing perfect job by making everything as genuine as possible.

I think you aren't Fully understanding the severity of Rudy's last,he was a shut in for over 20yrs and in that time he didn't have any social interaction not even with his family,all he did was waste his life and self indulge him in otaku things,he was living just because he was alive. So how can you expect this type of men to be all perfect

I mean I didn’t say the adaptation wasn’t spot on. I can’t really tell having not read the light novel. If that’s the way it is in light novel I’d probably have problems with it too. But you still did not answer my question about what you specifically felt as you were watching that scene.

He doesn’t have to be perfect; then it’d be closer to the generic isekai trash we always get. And I do get that he was a shut in and didn’t really care how people viewed him at that point. But umm … I’m not really sure it being logical justifies the presentation here. I have a problem with it b/c it essentially challenges (again, my perspective, have to say this) the idea that his actions are horrible by making it lighthearted, regardless of whether it’s Rudy’s POV or not.

Also, just to nail this home, it isn’t just Rudy’s perspective that makes these moments feel lighthearted. It is also the way characters around him react. There really aren’t any serious consequences for him acting this way. If there were, Rudy’s POV certainly wouldn’t be a lighthearted one.

Please consider the questions I posed in the previous post and whether or not they bring up valid points.

Just to give you some less grief, I am still enjoying the show. I love how in-depth the world is and how consequential the story is (aside for when it comes to you-know-what). It isn’t just mindless fun with a self insert MC. It just really pushes me away with these moments. If I’m being honest with you, I don’t even have a problem with the most recent episode

… and actually find it a bit compelling. But there is a big difference between that and the “lighthearted” moments.

Have you forgotten what you are watching is a fantasy set in medival,so obviously sex isn't anything unique for the characters of mushoku tensei. especially for Eris and Rudy since they both belong to the noble Greyrat family and all greyrat's have very strong sexual drive and even if Rudy will still had been horny kid considering his father and lineage.And it's no suprising Eris was unfazed by Rudy's action since she must have seen her father and grandpa having orgasm with their beast maids number of times.So when Rudy did that groped her in episode 6,she didn't think much about it and it just annoyed her a bit.
And for what happened in episode 8,Eris was asked by her mum to do that and personally she wasn't against it but was kinda nervous since at that time she already had start developed feeling for rudy,but I agree that scene is totally wrong not because of PEDOPHILIia, but because of Rudy behaving like he is playing a eroge and treating Eris like a tsundere character of an eroge and not understanding that it wasn't the right time to do it.But at the end he learned his lesson,after that he started treating Eris more like an actual person than the before when he treated her like a tsundere ojou sama character

Logic isn’t the problem here man. I ain’t digging up plot holes and haven’t really noticed any. Presentation is the problem.

For episode 8, I’d agree with you that Rudy chose the wrong time and didn’t treat her right, but I also think it’s wrong b/c it’s pedo lol. But again, I have no problems with that scene and actually found it compelling. Not sure why you were arguing on this point. I was trying to find common ground so we can level with one another a bit, you know?

I'm just telling you that mushoku tensei story is told 90% from Rudy pov and studio bind is just strictly following the source material and giving it justice by genuinely adapting it. What Rudy see funny will be presented in that way and what Rudy see sad will presented in that way.We have to follow this good for nothing hopeless mc through the end and most of what we see will be from his pov.

That's why even if you have problem with it, studio bind will continually adapting it in this way since if they make it correct just so they satisfy some people, it will be an disrespect to mushoku tensei's narrative and will be unfair to light novel.

Idk if you got satisfaction out of my last reply or just gave up, but I wasn't done yet lol. I still kind of want to challenge that POV argument you like to push b/c I don't think Rudy's POV was that of humor in all those "funny" moments ... you know, if you have the endurance to keep going.

I'm willing to go to the point of re-watching the show and attempting to re-evaluate whether my initial impression on first watch was misguided or not ... assuming you're willing to do the same. That is if we have to to reach a resolution. Each of us would specifically look for indicators that validates the others arguments rather than try to validate our own ... b/c of course we'll just validate our own if we just casually re-watch it.

Dec 17, 2021 9:50 PM

#113

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Feb 2021

399

Yohanluie1001 said:

Kenn024 said:

That's quite interesting but when it comes to the question itself, It all comes to the writing of the series. A villain would be called well-written if the writing of the character is great enough to be called well-written by a mass of people.
The immorality of the character particularly the protagonist of the series will come with love and hate about that character. Would that character will be liked by a mass of people or hated by a mass of people?
Should these characters have self-reflection or self-questioning? it all comes to the understanding of the writing itself.

If you take the example from Nobita and Rudeus, it would be incomparable.
Why would it? because the writing from both of the series is supposed to be a stand-alone episode or movie like family guy and south park. The flaw of Nobita itself is the characteristic of his personality. He may develop from that character in one episode or movie but that's all. His development will be gone in the next episode or movie.

Rudeus's personality is developed through the series and when it comes to self-reflection and self-questioning, he has done that part great, and how great it is will come together to audience perspective whether he's developed enough or not.
To be a reminder that his pervent personality isn't the thing that he will develop but there's a time where he will be horny or he will serious about certain situations.

Now if you look at Nobita's behavior when he peeks at Shizuka in the bath, it is undoubtedly bad behavior. He isn't developed from that habit and Shizuka seems annoyed by his behavior. It seems that pretty weird that there's a time that I laugh at this event when I read it as a child but I can't laugh and take this seriously when I was an adult.

I also don't understand why people getting focus on that part

I even don't care or forget the pervert jokes element because it was not really important

It will be more deep discussion
Or even better focus to talk about sex scene in mushoku

Like the pleasure and sacred things

No one ever talk about the consequences about Rudi that have sex with Eris
Wich is make him have bond emotion with her
And when she leaves, it's make scar on Rudi heart

Do you ever have sex with woman?
I do
A lot
And Everytime I do it, the bond of soul happened

And when we part away it's giving bitter feeling and pain

Back to topic

If we say that MT have good side and bad side. It have.

But I don't know why some people only see the bad side.

Yes. I have sex with women.

Not children.

Dec 18, 2021 1:32 AM

#114

AnimeSoap

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Mar 2014

268

ghier said:
Kind of upset and dejected that the arguments I started ended b/c the people I was arguing with stopped responding :(. Common y'all, keep it going. I look forward to these arguments about the morality in how a cartoon depicts an adult in a child's body ... sexually assaulting an actual child. Don't you just love directly challenging yourself in arguments with others? ... to see if you've actually been a hypocrite the whole time you've been watching shows like this? I know I do, even though it's draining as f*ck all lol.

What you mentioned is by far the biggest problem with the show. OF course it doesn't denounce Rudy's actions, they are painted in a light hearted manner just like you said.
The show is an isekai with a false veil of "story of redemption", it's not nearly smart or deep enough to deal with the morality issues it creates so it just brushes over them with typical anime antics.
Like others have said, they are adapting the source material and the source material is even more problematic. It's important to recognize problematic content as such and simply avoid if it really bothers you. The problem lies in the series being a power/harem fantasy no matter how hard it tries to convince you otherwise, it's not trying to normalize his behavior, it's just not written or thought out well enough to properly tackle the issue at hand.

Dec 18, 2021 3:03 AM

#115

Monochrosanity

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Dec 2018

4276

Is it not mainstream already? Pretty much anyone who’s been watching anime for a week has heard of it.

Dec 18, 2021 7:56 AM

#116

R0NIT4RD

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Jul 2021

839

SSJ4ABD said:
i feel like almost all mainstream animes are action packed with a few filler moments. half of this show is the mc being a pedophile

actually i overlooked that instead i focused on the child porn thing in this show

You all have to undrestand that Chainsaw man is impossible to adapt without CG.

Dec 18, 2021 7:57 AM

#117

R0NIT4RD

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Jul 2021

839

it should not get a little bit of a too much attention in many countries or anime will be banned in thise countries

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You all have to undrestand that Chainsaw man is impossible to adapt without CG.

Dec 18, 2021 11:30 AM

#118

acheolus

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Jun 2021

28

I think no, and lets me start with my argumen Popular isn't Mainstream

I don't think the story is a mainstream isekai, cause I think it doesn't look like other isekai story, take a look like the mainstream story like other story on isekai anime, they're more focus on the mainchara and take aside about the "isekai" and the culture visual and so on.

mushoku tensei had become popular since the first release but I commonly see the person who know the anime is a person who already get hook to anime, and not the kind of new on anime. so that's my first argument

Dec 18, 2021 11:45 AM

#119

xenosys

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Aug 2019

1701

No, not at all. It's a popular Isekai, but that's about it.

Dec 18, 2021 11:53 AM

#120

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Jul 2018

561867

It will become more popular,once season 2 airs

Dec 18, 2021 12:34 PM

#121

Okeanix

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Jan 2019

1391

Monochrosanity said:
Is it not mainstream already? Pretty much anyone who’s been watching anime for a week has heard of it.

Mainstream means even people who doesn't watch anime knows about it. Mushoku Tensei is only popular among the anime watchers because there is not really much to watch every season.

So no MT is not mainstream and if it was mainstream there would be tons of news, tweets to cancel it.

G.O.A.T Twitter Account: https://x.com/OkeanixALT

Dec 18, 2021 12:45 PM

#122

Monochrosanity

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Dec 2018

4276

Okeanix said:

Monochrosanity said:
Is it not mainstream already? Pretty much anyone who’s been watching anime for a week has heard of it.

Mainstream means even people who doesn't watch anime knows about it. Mushoku Tensei is only popular among the anime watchers because there is not really much to watch every season.

So no MT is not mainstream and if it was mainstream there would be tons of news, tweets to cancel it.

I see lol. I just always assume when people say mainstream they mean mainstream among the fandom.

Dec 18, 2021 1:56 PM

#123

HulkTySSJ2

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May 2018

684

Nearly EVERYTHING is mainstream to me, so by you're logic, I assume you mean "a household name"???

Dec 18, 2021 2:06 PM

#124

_Seany_

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Sep 2020

568

Honestly no because I think its like an acquired taste. Most people stop from the first few episodes but like once you get past that its really good. Its like the first 3 episodes are kind of like a filter to easily decide for someone if it is or isnt a series for them. So I think its gonna stay popular but not mainstream

Dec 18, 2021 4:26 PM

#125

CQLLIST

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Jul 2021

9195

Lol I don't think so because this series is only suitable for a certain audience

Dec 18, 2021 4:27 PM

#126

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Aug 2019

1498

AnimeSoap said:

ghier said:
Kind of upset and dejected that the arguments I started ended b/c the people I was arguing with stopped responding :(. Common y'all, keep it going. I look forward to these arguments about the morality in how a cartoon depicts an adult in a child's body ... sexually assaulting an actual child. Don't you just love directly challenging yourself in arguments with others? ... to see if you've actually been a hypocrite the whole time you've been watching shows like this? I know I do, even though it's draining as f*ck all lol.

What you mentioned is by far the biggest problem with the show. OF course it doesn't denounce Rudy's actions, they are painted in a light hearted manner just like you said.
The show is an isekai with a false veil of "story of redemption", it's not nearly smart or deep enough to deal with the morality issues it creates so it just brushes over them with typical anime antics.
Like others have said, they are adapting the source material and the source material is even more problematic. It's important to recognize problematic content as such and simply avoid if it really bothers you. The problem lies in the series being a power/harem fantasy no matter how hard it tries to convince you otherwise, it's not trying to normalize his behavior, it's just not written or thought out well enough to properly tackle the issue at hand.

Well, I might think that the show is going for redemption in some way. I haven't thought all to deeply about it. But yeah, you're definitely right that it ain't trying to redeem Rudy for those sexual harassment and assault scenes. It comes across to me as if it actually might be trying to make that trait ... endeering, which is ridiculous. I guess that's what I meant when I described it as normalizing ... b/c I have to agree that seeing it in the show definitely isn't enough normalize the actions in real life lol.

Idk about calling it a power harem fantasy. It is a bit, but it certainly isn't at the level of most isekai in this regard. I think there are genuinely good character moments unlike say ... Wise Man's Grandchild lol (literally the sh*ttiest one I've seen). And there is genuine depth in it's world too.

Dec 18, 2021 10:16 PM

#127

AnimeFA78N

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Mar 2020

1665

It is already as mainstream of an isekai as any other big isekai franchises are slime overlord rezero konosuba shield hero etc etc
also add the fact some of its fans cant shut the fuck up of how great is everyday here in mal is also clear sign of it becoming mainstream

Dec 18, 2021 10:36 PM

#128

Offline

Aug 2019

1498

Yohanluie1001 said:

ghier said:
Kind of upset and dejected that the arguments I started ended b/c the people I was arguing with stopped responding :(. Common y'all, keep it going. I look forward to these arguments about the morality in how a cartoon depicts an adult in a child's body ... sexually assaulting an actual child. Don't you just love directly challenging yourself in arguments with others? ... to see if you've actually been a hypocrite the whole time you've been watching shows like this? I know I do, even though it's draining as f*ck all lol.

For this kind argument we must see scene per scene separately

And we must considering every culture (don't using our standard)

I am agree Rudi was Degenerate about sexual jokes when eris was younger

I also agree that he doesn't have right standard about minimum age of sexual things to woman

But also

If we talk about ep 22

I don't see a problem because it was legal age in my religion

My parents have me when my father was 25 and my mother was 15
It's common in my place to find average mother was 15 years old when having a kids in 90's

Do you call my father phedopile?

(I agree Rudi do a mistake when harassing eris when she was 12, but ep 22 is different Yoo. )

Concept 17-18 years old was legal age of sex was formed by modern society

But in traditional society

Woman legal is when she get period

I mean you're right. My values and the values of your parents are different in that regard because of the countries and times we were raised in. Relationships with those under 18 is against the law in my country and I've come to identify with that for my own reasons.
And I do apologize for the negative connotation that comes with the word "pedophile", but it's just the term we use for those that have relationships with those underage. And I just happen to draw the line in a different spot. By now your mother is well over 18, and -- if they're still together -- your father probably loves her all the same. I'm betting his choice of partner is not solely based on your mother's appearance at age 15.

If episode 22 is the one where

I do still find that unethical, but I don't think it takes away from the scene really. I understand Rudy does not possess the same values as I do, so I can more-or-less accept it even if I don't agree with it... if that makes sense. The specific scenes where he does something perverted and sexually harasses Eris is just too much tho. They're all throughout the show and seem to be played up for laughs; like I just don't want to laugh at that. It's so distasteful to me.

ghierDec 18, 2021 10:58 PM

Dec 18, 2021 11:46 PM

#129

Matchiu

Offline

Jan 2021

394

nah bro, I have never seen an anime with this much sexual controversy before. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan

“The first requirement of being a hero isn’t being right. It’s being strong. That’s why the hero always wins.” – Koyomi Araragi

Dec 19, 2021 12:00 AM

#130

-lazyknight-

Offline

Oct 2018

33

No please I just need it to get popular enough to get a sequel not to attract more hater for some reason still visit this page even though they hate it

Dec 19, 2021 1:03 AM

#131

barmar

Offline

Oct 2011

389

Scored by like 92k people for now even here on MAL with a 8.75 rating
I’m pretty sure MT’s entering that western mainstream territory as well.
In Japan it’s already on Disney+ and Netflix so yea we’re getting there slowly.

Dec 19, 2021 2:01 AM

#132

Offline

Dec 2019

247

barmar said:
Scored by like 92k people for now even here on MAL with a 8.75 rating
I’m pretty sure MT’s entering that western mainstream territory as well.
In Japan it’s already on Disney+ and Netflix so yea we’re getting there slowly.

lol due you even know the meaning of mainstream?

Dec 19, 2021 3:14 AM

#133

Offline

Jul 2018

561867

Hentai_heaven said:

barmar said:
Scored by like 92k people for now even here on MAL with a 8.75 rating
I’m pretty sure MT’s entering that western mainstream territory as well.
In Japan it’s already on Disney+ and Netflix so yea we’re getting there slowly.

lol due you even know the meaning of mainstream?

He said that it will gradually become mainstream, not every shows is action hyped think like Aot and Demon slayer.

For example,when jojo was first released it wasn't that popular but gradually it become so popular that every anime fan knows about it now

Dec 19, 2021 3:18 AM

#134

ST63LTH

Offline

Nov 2019

5002

Definitely agree with you on that point. Although it is arguable that MT is already considered mainstream especially given it's gotten a second season within a year.

Interest stacks

Dec 19, 2021 3:22 AM

#135

Offline

Dec 2019

247

Ceoneichi said:

Hentai_heaven said:

lol due you even know the meaning of mainstream?

He said that it will gradually become mainstream, not every shows is action hyped think like Aot and Demon slayer.

For example,when jojo was first released it wasn't that popular but gradually it become so popular that every anime fan knows about it now

dude mainstream means even "non anime" viewers know about the show not just in anime community. A mainstream anime means a show which is regarded as normal by most people which mushoku definitely isn't.there will always be controversy surrounding it.

Dec 19, 2021 3:32 AM

#136

Offline

Jul 2018

561867

Hentai_heaven said:

Ceoneichi said:

He said that it will gradually become mainstream, not every shows is action hyped think like Aot and Demon slayer.

For example,when jojo was first released it wasn't that popular but gradually it become so popular that every anime fan knows about it now

dude mainstream means even "non anime" viewers know about the show not just in anime community. A mainstream anime means a show which is regarded as normal by most people which mushoku definitely isn't.there will always be controversy surrounding it.

If you are talking about controversial than GOT was more controversial than Mushoku Tensei can ever be,but still it was very popular because it had a strong adult/young adult audience. And mushoku tensei is on the same realm as GoT,so I see a strong possibility in it becoming very big in the future.

And mainstream animes likes Aot,ds,mha, dragon Ball,they are mainstream because of strong kids/Teenager following

Dec 19, 2021 3:35 AM

#137

barmar

Offline

Oct 2011

389

Hentai_heaven said:

Ceoneichi said:

He said that it will gradually become mainstream, not every shows is action hyped think like Aot and Demon slayer.

For example,when jojo was first released it wasn't that popular but gradually it become so popular that every anime fan knows about it now

dude mainstream means even "non anime" viewers know about the show not just in anime community. A mainstream anime means a show which is regarded as normal by most people which mushoku definitely isn't.there will always be controversy surrounding it.

Even non-anime viewers are slowly getting into it. It’s just the beginning.
And I wouldn’t say there’s controversy surrounding it, the thing is this artificial controversy for the sake of bashing the show will be gone as time goes by and people realize what kind of show they’re watching especially considering it’s very likely we’ll get more seasons.

Dec 19, 2021 3:48 AM

#138

Offline

Dec 2019

247

Ceoneichi said:

Hentai_heaven said:

dude mainstream means even "non anime" viewers know about the show not just in anime community. A mainstream anime means a show which is regarded as normal by most people which mushoku definitely isn't.there will always be controversy surrounding it.

If you are talking about controversial than GOT was more controversial than Mushoku Tensei can ever be,but still it was very popular because it had a strong adult/young adult audience. And mushoku tensei is on the same realm as GoT,so I see a strong possibility in it becoming very big in the future.

And mainstream animes likes Aot,ds,mha, dragon Ball,they are mainstream because of strong kids/Teenager following

lol you just cant say a show like aot is mainstream because of kid/teenage following. Aot final was the most watched show in US for like couple weeks and I'm pretty sure more adults are watching aot than mushoku.
Coming to GOT it never had pedophile content like mushoku(which I dont think it is but twitter is going crazy).when asked about GOT,very few will bring up controversy part but sadly for mushoku there will always be some vocals who say " oh that pedophile show".mushoku is just not a show which you can watch with family or in large group.

Dec 19, 2021 3:51 AM

#139

xenosys

Offline

Aug 2019

1701

Hentai_heaven said:

Ceoneichi said:

He said that it will gradually become mainstream, not every shows is action hyped think like Aot and Demon slayer.

For example,when jojo was first released it wasn't that popular but gradually it become so popular that every anime fan knows about it now

dude mainstream means even "non anime" viewers know about the show not just in anime community. A mainstream anime means a show which is regarded as normal by most people which mushoku definitely isn't.there will always be controversy surrounding it.

Yeah, in that context, very few shows are normie mainstream. Mushoku definitely isn't.

I have some family that watch anime occasionally (lke 1-2 shows a year) and they've never heard of MT. If anime casuals don't even know what it is, then normies won't.

Dec 19, 2021 4:02 AM

#140

Offline

Jul 2018

561867

Hentai_heaven said:

Ceoneichi said:

If you are talking about controversial than GOT was more controversial than Mushoku Tensei can ever be,but still it was very popular because it had a strong adult/young adult audience. And mushoku tensei is on the same realm as GoT,so I see a strong possibility in it becoming very big in the future.

And mainstream animes likes Aot,ds,mha, dragon Ball,they are mainstream because of strong kids/Teenager following

lol you just cant say a show like aot is mainstream because of kid/teenage following. Aot final was the most watched show in US for like couple weeks and I'm pretty sure more adults are watching aot than mushoku.
Coming to GOT it never had pedophile content like mushoku(which I dont think it is but twitter is going crazy).when asked about GOT,very few will bring up controversy part but sadly for mushoku there will always be some vocals who say " oh that pedophile show".mushoku is just not a show which you can watch with family or in large group.

Most animes primarily audience are mainly Kids or Teenagers,adults are only secondary maybe even Tertiary.Aot is popular in us, because it is already established and has gain many fans over the years,so it's nothing strange it will be no.1 some country.

I'm just saying Mushoku Tensei has all the potential to be as popular as Aot,it is still new so it will take it's time.

You see nobody brings any controversy about Got because it is already popular around the world,that the trolls around it has completely died and now people were only praising until season 8 happened.

Like GoT, Mushoku Tensei also caters to young adult/adult audience who are open minded enough to accept dark realistic things.

And mushoku tensei has already shown great potential in that aspect,It was the no.1 anime of 2021 in Japanese anime streaming sites and you know what this means

Dec 19, 2021 4:10 AM

#141

Offline

Dec 2019

247

Ceoneichi said:

Hentai_heaven said:

lol you just cant say a show like aot is mainstream because of kid/teenage following. Aot final was the most watched show in US for like couple weeks and I'm pretty sure more adults are watching aot than mushoku.
Coming to GOT it never had pedophile content like mushoku(which I dont think it is but twitter is going crazy).when asked about GOT,very few will bring up controversy part but sadly for mushoku there will always be some vocals who say " oh that pedophile show".mushoku is just not a show which you can watch with family or in large group.

Most animes primarily audience are mainly Kids or Teenagers,adults are only secondary maybe even Tertiary.Aot is popular in us, because it is already established and has gain many fans over the years,so it's nothing strange it will be no.1 some country.

I'm just saying Mushoku Tensei has all the potential to be as popular as Aot,it is still new so it will take it's time.

You see nobody brings any controversy about Got because it is already popular around the world,that the trolls around it has completely died and now people were only praising until season 8 happened.

Like GoT, Mushoku Tensei also caters to young adult/adult audience who are open minded enough to accept dark realistic things.

And mushoku tensei has already shown great potential in that aspect,It was the no.1 anime of 2021 in Japanese anime streaming sites and you know what this means

for mushoku to be popular it needs to bring something new to the table to overshadow its controversial part which it may do or not only time will tell. But yes, mushoku as the tools to be mainstream.
And buddy it's the most watched show of FALL season not the entire year.

Dec 19, 2021 4:15 AM

#142

Offline

Jul 2018

561867

xenosys said:

Hentai_heaven said:

dude mainstream means even "non anime" viewers know about the show not just in anime community. A mainstream anime means a show which is regarded as normal by most people which mushoku definitely isn't.there will always be controversy surrounding it.

Yeah, in that context, very few shows are normie mainstream. Mushoku definitely isn't.

I have some family that watch anime occasionally (lke 1-2 shows a year) and they've never heard of MT. If anime casuals don't even know what it is, then normies won't.

It only been a year since mushoku tensei was released, so please don't judge it at the mmmo, unlike shows like demon slayer and mha which have that one big fight or a moment which makes them so popular but unlike them mushoku tensei first does a build up before giving that moment.

And after their initial hype, animes like mha and Ds,they lost their hype because they don't have anything good to engage the audience and again wait for that big moment.

But unlike those animes, mushoku tensei keeps getting better the further you go kinda like Aot,that's why I think it will be very big in the future.

In 3yrs mushoku tensei will be one of the most popular anime on the planet and it's not a prediction its a spoiler

Dec 19, 2021 4:17 AM

#143

dabdabgoose

Offline

Jan 2021

1128

Hentai_heaven said:

Ceoneichi said:

Most animes primarily audience are mainly Kids or Teenagers,adults are only secondary maybe even Tertiary.Aot is popular in us, because it is already established and has gain many fans over the years,so it's nothing strange it will be no.1 some country.

I'm just saying Mushoku Tensei has all the potential to be as popular as Aot,it is still new so it will take it's time.

You see nobody brings any controversy about Got because it is already popular around the world,that the trolls around it has completely died and now people were only praising until season 8 happened.

Like GoT, Mushoku Tensei also caters to young adult/adult audience who are open minded enough to accept dark realistic things.

And mushoku tensei has already shown great potential in that aspect,It was the no.1 anime of 2021 in Japanese anime streaming sites and you know what this means

for mushoku to be popular it needs to bring something new to the table to overshadow its controversial part which it may do or not only time will tell. But yes, mushoku as the tools to be mainstream.
And buddy it's the most watched show of FALL season not the entire year.

To be fair though it had more views then Demon slayer in Japan once the proper season started after the Mugen train arc and that anime set the record for most watched anime movie in history, so it's mainstream in Japan for sure.

But the west is obviously different, I personally don't think it would hit anywhere near the same heights because anime in japan is watched by adults more of a percentage then outside which is the core audience of this show.

Dec 19, 2021 4:18 AM

#144

Offline

Jul 2018

561867

Hentai_heaven said:

Ceoneichi said:

Most animes primarily audience are mainly Kids or Teenagers,adults are only secondary maybe even Tertiary.Aot is popular in us, because it is already established and has gain many fans over the years,so it's nothing strange it will be no.1 some country.

I'm just saying Mushoku Tensei has all the potential to be as popular as Aot,it is still new so it will take it's time.

You see nobody brings any controversy about Got because it is already popular around the world,that the trolls around it has completely died and now people were only praising until season 8 happened.

Like GoT, Mushoku Tensei also caters to young adult/adult audience who are open minded enough to accept dark realistic things.

And mushoku tensei has already shown great potential in that aspect,It was the no.1 anime of 2021 in Japanese anime streaming sites and you know what this means

for mushoku to be popular it needs to bring something new to the table to overshadow its controversial part which it may do or not only time will tell. But yes, mushoku as the tools to be mainstream.
And buddy it's the most watched show of FALL season not the entire year.

I mean in japan,it is the most watched anime of 2021 in streaming sites

Dec 19, 2021 4:22 AM

#145

Offline

Jul 2018

561867

dabdabgoose said:

Hentai_heaven said:

Ceoneichi said:

Hentai_heaven said:

Ceoneichi said:

Hentai_heaven said:

Ceoneichi said:

Hentai_heaven said:

barmar said:
Scored by like 92k people for now even here on MAL with a 8.75 rating
I’m pretty sure MT’s entering that western mainstream territory as well.
In Japan it’s already on Disney+ and Netflix so yea we’re getting there slowly.

lol due you even know the meaning of mainstream?

He said that it will gradually become mainstream, not every shows is action hyped think like Aot and Demon slayer.

For example,when jojo was first released it wasn't that popular but gradually it become so popular that every anime fan knows about it now

dude mainstream means even "non anime" viewers know about the show not just in anime community. A mainstream anime means a show which is regarded as normal by most people which mushoku definitely isn't.there will always be controversy surrounding it.

If you are talking about controversial than GOT was more controversial than Mushoku Tensei can ever be,but still it was very popular because it had a strong adult/young adult audience. And mushoku tensei is on the same realm as GoT,so I see a strong possibility in it becoming very big in the future.

And mainstream animes likes Aot,ds,mha, dragon Ball,they are mainstream because of strong kids/Teenager following

lol you just cant say a show like aot is mainstream because of kid/teenage following. Aot final was the most watched show in US for like couple weeks and I'm pretty sure more adults are watching aot than mushoku.
Coming to GOT it never had pedophile content like mushoku(which I dont think it is but twitter is going crazy).when asked about GOT,very few will bring up controversy part but sadly for mushoku there will always be some vocals who say " oh that pedophile show".mushoku is just not a show which you can watch with family or in large group.

Most animes primarily audience are mainly Kids or Teenagers,adults are only secondary maybe even Tertiary.Aot is popular in us, because it is already established and has gain many fans over the years,so it's nothing strange it will be no.1 some country.

I'm just saying Mushoku Tensei has all the potential to be as popular as Aot,it is still new so it will take it's time.

You see nobody brings any controversy about Got because it is already popular around the world,that the trolls around it has completely died and now people were only praising until season 8 happened.

Like GoT, Mushoku Tensei also caters to young adult/adult audience who are open minded enough to accept dark realistic things.

And mushoku tensei has already shown great potential in that aspect,It was the no.1 anime of 2021 in Japanese anime streaming sites and you know what this means

for mushoku to be popular it needs to bring something new to the table to overshadow its controversial part which it may do or not only time will tell. But yes, mushoku as the tools to be mainstream.
And buddy it's the most watched show of FALL season not the entire year.

To be fair though it had more views then Demon slayer in Japan once the proper season started after the Mugen train arc and that anime set the record for most watched anime movie in history, so it's mainstream in Japan for sure.

But the west is obviously different, I personally don't think it would hit anywhere near the same heights because anime in japan is watched by adults more of a percentage then outside which is the core audience of this show.

You know it only takes that one big moment to make an anime mainstream.

And unlike Demon slayer, Mushoku Tensei still has 19+ light novel volumes to adapt and those volumes had many big moment

Dec 19, 2021 4:22 AM

#146

Offline

Dec 2019

247

Ceoneichi said:

Hentai_heaven said:

Ceoneichi said:

Hentai_heaven said:

Ceoneichi said:

Hentai_heaven said:

Ceoneichi said:

Hentai_heaven said:

barmar said:
Scored by like 92k people for now even here on MAL with a 8.75 rating
I’m pretty sure MT’s entering that western mainstream territory as well.
In Japan it’s already on Disney+ and Netflix so yea we’re getting there slowly.

lol due you even know the meaning of mainstream?

He said that it will gradually become mainstream, not every shows is action hyped think like Aot and Demon slayer.

For example,when jojo was first released it wasn't that popular but gradually it become so popular that every anime fan knows about it now

dude mainstream means even "non anime" viewers know about the show not just in anime community. A mainstream anime means a show which is regarded as normal by most people which mushoku definitely isn't.there will always be controversy surrounding it.

If you are talking about controversial than GOT was more controversial than Mushoku Tensei can ever be,but still it was very popular because it had a strong adult/young adult audience. And mushoku tensei is on the same realm as GoT,so I see a strong possibility in it becoming very big in the future.

And mainstream animes likes Aot,ds,mha, dragon Ball,they are mainstream because of strong kids/Teenager following

lol you just cant say a show like aot is mainstream because of kid/teenage following. Aot final was the most watched show in US for like couple weeks and I'm pretty sure more adults are watching aot than mushoku.
Coming to GOT it never had pedophile content like mushoku(which I dont think it is but twitter is going crazy).when asked about GOT,very few will bring up controversy part but sadly for mushoku there will always be some vocals who say " oh that pedophile show".mushoku is just not a show which you can watch with family or in large group.

Most animes primarily audience are mainly Kids or Teenagers,adults are only secondary maybe even Tertiary.Aot is popular in us, because it is already established and has gain many fans over the years,so it's nothing strange it will be no.1 some country.

I'm just saying Mushoku Tensei has all the potential to be as popular as Aot,it is still new so it will take it's time.

You see nobody brings any controversy about Got because it is already popular around the world,that the trolls around it has completely died and now people were only praising until season 8 happened.

Like GoT, Mushoku Tensei also caters to young adult/adult audience who are open minded enough to accept dark realistic things.

And mushoku tensei has already shown great potential in that aspect,It was the no.1 anime of 2021 in Japanese anime streaming sites and you know what this means

for mushoku to be popular it needs to bring something new to the table to overshadow its controversial part which it may do or not only time will tell. But yes, mushoku as the tools to be mainstream.
And buddy it's the most watched show of FALL season not the entire year.

I mean in japan,it is the most watched anime of 2021 in streaming sites

nope even in japan it's not even in top 10. I think it was like
Jjk
Ds
Aot
Mha
It still has long way to go to surpass jjk and ds in japan and aot in oversees.

Dec 19, 2021 4:30 AM

#147

dabdabgoose

Offline

Jan 2021

1128

Hentai_heaven said:
nope even in japan it's not even in top 10. I think it was like
Jjk
Ds
Aot
Mha
It still has long way to go to surpass jjk and ds in japan and aot in oversees.

Episode 21 had higher viewership then Demon Slayer's first episode post Mugen train arc in Japan.

Dec 19, 2021 4:33 AM

#148