Mushoku Tensei: Isekai Ittara Honki Dasu Part 2 Episode 4 Discussion

Harem_lover94 said:


Anime makers might think they have the time to develop every single plotline, but we anime-only watchers only care about what we will see this season, I don't want to wait 10 years before the main plot-line moves an inch. Greed is the only reason to stretch things out so much.

Dukino said:


1. this wasnt a filler episode, all canon material

2. rudy wasnt wacking his petter to the girls he was just oogling and admiring, he wasnt touching himself

Intouch said:
boring episode for me, SoL with the beast people...
0 value I hope it will be better next week.
Don't understand how the part 2 is so high on MaL atm.

zaza1234 said:
It’s was an ok ep in my opinion, this season is not as good as the last one, I think the LN is way better than the anime at this point

davidyodo24 said:
Wait what they been there for 3 months because of the Rainy Season? So it's raining nonstop? Lmao wtf

Little bit of Ghislaine backstory, i wonder who that swordsman is? Is that the guy who Rudeus beat last episode?

I can feel Eris Character Development in this episode.

Lmao people who complained about this episode was slow because of sol just didn't understand the greatness of World Building and Character Development, they just don't get it. It's their loses anyway.

Yaggamy said:


The whole area was flooded and the roads were unusable. They had to wait it out. Also, they were in no rush to leave the forest because they liked it there.

Who Rudeus beat was a smuggler and a sword saint, Gallus Cleaner.
Ghislaine mentions her swords master in S1, Sword God Gal Farion. His the 6th strongest fighter in the world based on the monolith they see on the road at the end of the episode.

Some of the people who complain also complain on other animes/mangas regularly. It's their hobby.

error5000 said:


I mean, its a common trope in anime to have some character peek on girls bathing, usually the perv char who rudeous fills the description of in this series. I legit don't understand how did he came with the conclusion he was busting it...why do people always have to vilify and overthink everything rudeus does? like seriously, i'm starting to think these people are just projecting themselves on him.

zaza1234 said:
It’s was an ok ep in my opinion, this season is not as good as the last one, I think the LN is way better than the anime at this point

penrhos said:
It was a slow episode but it tidies up a few threads from Season 1 and plants the seeds for events in the future that would be spoilers if mentioned.

The important thing to take from this episode is "people change":

Ghislaine was the "Eris" of the beast people village. Eris can make friends - will Eris become another Ghislaine?

Dukino said:
Eris with twin tails is so cute!!

mkzxwing said:


I'd say season 1 is kind of on par with the LN, if not better outside a couple of things, but yeah, this season so far is slow, kind of boring garbage so far that's like half filler and half content with cut holes so numerous and wide you can see through it more than swiss cheese. What the heck happened? I'd would guess they are just trying to rush things and skip ahead to a certain event... WOULD if not for the fact that all the stuff they cut and replaced with fillers didn't seem to speed up progress that much, if at all, and all the episode pace so far was painfully slow... A shame really

mkzxwing said:
So far this season was rather boring and mediocre, overall and compared to the last season which was pretty good, but the last two episodes where absolutely dreadful, where the heck are most of the more important and interesting events and why did they cut most of it and replaced it with some half assed garbage (was this stuff even in the web novel? i'm certain most of it wasn't in the LN)? The time use and adaptation accuracy is really bad so far.

Loki0830 said:
Some things they left out from the WN/LN:

• The Sacred Beast is normally locked up for its protection. However, often when Rudeus was by himself the beast would walk up to him and hang out with him. This caused drama between him and the Beast people because they thought he was breaking the Sacred Beast out of its cell. In actuality Gisu was freeing the beast every time in an attempt to appease Rudeus, since he thought Rudeus liked the Sacred Beast's company.
  
  
• Rudeus went out to train one day by himself to practice trying to fly with magic. He ended up messing up his initial landing badly and almost killed himself. The blood from his injuries attracted a bunch of monsters and, in his panic and confusion, ended up freezing everything between him and the main village, monsters included.
  
  
• When monsters would attack the village, Rudeus, Rujerd, and Eris would help protect everyone. The beast people were very welcoming of their help, which off-put Rujerd. The last time he interacted with the beast people a few centuries ago, they were a very proud race who would never accept the help of strangers so easily. Rudeus ended up talking with Rujerd about this criticism, and changed his mind, which lead Rujerd to enjoy the company of the warriors of the beast people.
  

mkzxwing said:
So far this season was rather boring and mediocre, overall and compared to the last season which was pretty good, but the last two episodes where absolutely dreadful, where the heck are most of the more important and interesting events and why did they cut most of it and replaced it with some half assed garbage (was this stuff even in the web novel? i'm certain most of it wasn't in the LN)? The time use and adaptation accuracy is really bad so far.

Harem_lover94 said:


Yes, I'm tired of these filler episodes where literally nothing happens, the entire villaga saga could have been 2 episodes, we will probably never see these characters again and there's nothing interesting about them, nor did we learn anything new about our own heroes. I have been forced to watch these last two episodes at 2x speeds because I want the main plot line to progress, and I'm getting extremely tired of the fillers.

hattrem1 said:

It was 100% indeed in the light novel

TommyBo1 said:


There were a number of other issues caused by the "creative liberties" that the writers took for this and the previous episode. The moment they stepped outside of the novels writing, they ruined multiple set-ups, character building scenes and world establishing details that added to the novel.

I was honestly disappointed in it, and I feel like the action scenes look worse and seem far cheaper than the first season as well.

Showing Sauros's death also robbed the story of having a shock factor for the viewer, the timing of how information is revealed is already heavily hurting this adaption, in combination to all the other liberties/issues they have with the show.

In terms of adaption and telling the novel's story, the first season was a 8-9/10 (wasn't perfect, but it hit most of the important notes in the story and atmosphere, the action was also well done)

The last 2 episodes were honestly a huge disappointment and unless the editors get their shit together, I can't imagine how a 3rd season would look, and if it'd still deserve the "Mushoku Tensei" name.

Season 1 was a 9/10 for me (almost 10/10), Season 2 is currently a 6/10 for me.

GGcc78 said:
This stuff was in the light novel, I mean, the last chapter of LN volume 4 has he same title as this episode. There was ALOT of foreshadowing in this episode. You learn about Ghisalines backstory, which feeds into both her character arc as well as Eris'. You have Eris's personal character development which was moved from earlier in this season to this episode (things like her learning beast god and learning how to interact with others). You have the formal introduction of the great powers and

A large chunk of the world building that people criticized the first few episodes for cutting out was in this episode. They put the world building in and people call the episode slow and full of filler (which it absolutely wasn't; most of the stuff in this episode came from pages 129 through 156 of volume 4). There really is no winning on the internet.

mkzxwing said:



Again, no, idk where you get that. The slaver attack wasn't there. The boss fight with their leader wasn't there, nor did such a character exist.

Eris didn't teach the girl sword skills. The focus wasn't on her either.

As per world building, yes, they might have told some about Gisland, but they could have done that scene in a fraction of the time, like it was in the LN, instead they dragged it on, and that was a trade-off for missing out on A LOT MORE world building,

for example everything to do with the holy beast (which is actually more or less the whole reason behind that village), missed out on an explanation about the beastmen races and their relations, abilities, about the forest... And what exactly did it do for Eris?

Nothing we already didn't know (that she really respects Gisland, woo, did you missed half of the last season..? or how she always talks about her? cuz that's literally all she was doing half of her screen time), aside that she managed to make a friend?

So again, missed out on the WHOLE LORE of the beastmen, the forest and the holy beast,

Rudy's magic experiments and monster fights,

for a shitty short fight with a man that wasn't even there in the LN, and an extended Eris tantrum. Yeah, definitely a timeskip filler.

GGcc78 said:
The slaver attackand boss fight was there. Start reading from LN page 118.

This is partially false. On page 135 of the light novel, Rudy talks about how eris and minotona were developing a friendship and how they were traveling everywhere together. The LN doesn't show or specify how that friendship developed. That doesn't work in an anime, you need to visually depict it and the way they choose to do so was by showing eris training her how to fight as well showing them teach each other their respective languages. This does two things. When Eris fights Minitona later on, Rudy mentions in the light novel how Eris is an absolute beast as she has continued training non-stop. Minitona is a newb. Rudeus remarks how Eris should have absolutely wrecked her, yet she chose not to do so and took some punches in the process. Showing how their friendship grew via Eris teaching Minitona is effective visual shorthand for later on, illustrating that their is a major power gap between the two of them while at the same time depicting their developing relationship. Up until this point in the story, Eris would have NEVER held back. Shes a changed person. This is also important because it directly feeds into the Ghisaline stuff, which is the dominant topic of LN Chapter 9. Their developing friendship and relationship triggers the convo on page 136 where you start the deep dive into Ghisaline. This needs to be discussed because the comparison between Ghisaline and Eris is foreshadowing spoiler for ln 7 through 12
Its a thematically and narratively brilliant move and is far more important than random lore about elves living in the forest, which plays little role in the overall them and messaging of the whole story. This is far more than Eris simply liking Ghisiline and the parallels between the two of them is new information that was only very briefly touched upon in the past. The whole point of the story is about improving what you once were. That doesn't just apply to Rudy and the Ghisaline/Eris dichotomey plays into her future development.

Again, you are minimizing how much space the Ghisaline stuff took up in the light novel (both in this particular novel as well as pieces that were not adapted from previous novels). Additionally, you are failing to notice the parallels between Eris' and Ghislaine's story arcs, which is vital to their character development. When you're making a story lore is great, but lore needs to come second in service to character development and the main plot. Also I just ran the numbers, 20 percent of chapter 9 is devoted to Ghisaline. Of course it was going to be a big part of the episode.

I already addressed what it did for Eris further up. What does ANY of that lore do for the greater story. I can explain what Eris's character development means for her future character arc, I can't explain what a lore dump about the relations between the beast men will do for this story at this point in time. What I can say is that when they get to the school arc that topic gets revisited in more detail, so there's no great loss in that not happening at this time. It adds nothing to the story but Eris needs development for when this season ends.

Eris was a lose cannon incapable of caring for anyone. She spent the entirety of season battling everyone who wasn't Rudy or Rujiered. Within the novel itself, Rudy specifically calls out this change in her and how she's growing as a person. Once again, growth is THE central theme of this story, and ties in nicely to the decision Eris will be making at the end of this season. Right now she is dependent on Rudy, and Rudy is dependent on her. She is starting to grow independent.

Lore comes second to character development. And like I said, the better opportunity to talk about that it when volume 8 through 10 spoilers

If you're referring to the flight stuff and the ice that was decannonized by the author and removed from the novel

Out of curiosity, did you read the Light Novel or did you read the web novel?

EDIT: Got to a computer so ill address your points line by line

mkzxwing said:



Guess i was reading the wn after all (or, well, not reading, but listening, audiobook and all).
But still, they pretty much completely skipped out on almost everything related to Gislane in season 1, didn't relay her character at all, why would they bother with that stuff so much more than even the novel did now, when she's not even around and won't be for quite a while? As per character development, the holy beast will be playing a big role in the future, so skipping on that is weird, also Riniya and Pursena will be pretty big characters in the future too, and skipping out on the great forest's lore will cut into them too, i mean i guess you can explain the relevant stuff later... But you still just lost all of the great forest context while being there. Yes Eris changed a bit. But it doesn't warrant a whole episode instead of the 5-7 minutes she would have canonically gotten with them showing her teaching the girl human language, and the passing argument about Gislane which they made into a major drama scene. Speaking of drama scenes (which they made up and broke character), they also pulled that in season 1, with Eris getting angsty about not being able to dance in front of the guests, despite her being shown as a person that doesn't give a damn about anyone but the people she considers close, not before that event, and mostly later too.

I guess the WN mismatch creates some confusion, but there's also the mismatch between season 1 and what they're doing now in season 2 (Gislane is not important>Gislane (who's not around) is super important), and generally a really bad use of airtime, you can cram A LOT more important and interesting info in that time without even rushing and making it bloated, but they don't. Which is a shame, because in season 1 they pretty much included everything, or at least most of what's important, making it a lot better than this season is so far, i enjoyed watching it more than reading despite already knowing what happens, but this season so far is a pain and bore to watch.

mkzxwing said:
Again, I think reading the WN as opposed to the LN is hurting you here. The two narrative plot points in this chapter were the Eris fight and the Ghisaline reveal. The eris drama was such a large portion of it that the only piece of insert art in that chapter was Eris flipping out over Ghisaline being dismissed. As for why the Eris/ Ghisaline stuff needs to happen now? Episode 12 will probably so the parallel needs to be made at some point and it needs to happen before episode 12. Theres still time before the HAVE to talk about the beastmen society in depth, and I'm sure when its necessary they will be able to do so, but time is a resources and fully fleshing out the characters before episode 12 is key.




Guess i was reading the wn after all (or, well, not reading, but listening, audiobook and all).
But still, they pretty much completely skipped out on almost everything related to Gislane in season 1, didn't relay her character at all, why would they bother with that stuff so much more than even the novel did now, when she's not even around and won't be for quite a while?

As per character development, the holy beast will be playing a big role in the future, so skipping on that is weird, also Riniya and Pursena will be pretty big characters in the future too, and skipping out on the great forest's lore will cut into them too, i mean i guess you can explain the relevant stuff later... But you still just lost all of the great forest context while being there.

Yes Eris changed a bit. But it doesn't warrant a whole episode instead of the 5-7 minutes she would have canonically gotten with them showing her teaching the girl human language, and the passing argument about Gislane which they made into a major drama scene.

Speaking of drama scenes (which they made up and broke character), they also pulled that in season 1, with Eris getting angsty about not being able to dance in front of the guests, despite her being shown as a person that doesn't give a damn about anyone but the people she considers close, not before that event, and mostly later too.

I guess the WN mismatch creates some confusion, but there's also the mismatch between season 1 and what they're doing now in season 2 (Gislane is not important>Gislane (who's not around) is super important),

and generally a really bad use of airtime, you can cram A LOT more important and interesting info in that time without even rushing and making it bloated, but they don't. Which is a shame, because in season 1 they pretty much included everything, or at least most of what's important, making it a lot better than this season is so far, i enjoyed watching it more than reading despite already knowing what happens, but this season so far is a pain and bore to watch.

GGcc78 said:
SO I talked about this up thread but



Theyre making an anime which is a visual medium. I'll give you an example. I'm a major Dune fan. It has an expansive world that dwarfs anything MT has to offer. The 1984 movie sucked, for many reasons but part of it was constant exposition and lore dumps. It slows the pace is ineffective when making a movie. Dune 2021 is a masterpiece because it doesn't bog itself down in these details. It understands its a movie, not a novel and removes many of the lore dumps. The details are still there for you to see but it doesnt become trapped by them.

Now something else to consider is that they need to tell a story NOW Season 1 part 2 is guaranteed. Season 2 and Season 3 are not. It would be nice to get foreshadowing about Liliana and Pursena, but that should not come at the expense of thoroughly examining the relationship between Eris and Ghisaline since

Furthermore

This is a personal taste thing. I don't agree , I prefer the in-depth character comparisons. Put another way, the content you would have liked shown would have come across poorly in a visual medium since there was no central conflict to it. It would effectively be Rudius sitting in his chair monologuing. Either way, I can't see how you can call it filler. As I mentioned up thread, Eris and Rudeus are both in their own respective heroes journies and both of them should be handled with the same care. If anyone is curious about what I mean about that here is a wiki link

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero%27s_journey

This was all in the light novel and were central conflicts in there respective chapters.....
Going into more detail about Eris being angsty in front of guests, Eris has consistently shown that she does not like to lose and does not like to be made a fool of. In that lens, the dance thing makes alot of sense. She understands that its a requirement that she most get through and failing to do so would make her look like a loser in front of everyone she knows. That's why it interplays nicely with how Rudeus trained her. He has her treat it as a battle with sword play which ties in with her desire to seek adventure, glory and victory.

I think i addressed this already up thread, but it needs to belabour the point because

a- its the most talked about thing at this point in the novel. Again, 20 percent of this chapter that is being adapted is about Ghisaline. The next biggest chunk is about Eris.
b-it ties into events that are happening very soon
Well, again this is personal preference. I enjoy seeing the characters given the room to breath and flesh out their stories. One of my biggest complaints about anime fandom is that there is a desire to see every aspect of a story regurgitated onto the screen. This is very much unique to anime, as with film its accepted that an adaptation wont do this. The Godfather does not work every aspect of the novel into the film, and yet it is still great. I brought up Dune earlier and the same applies to that. Either way, my central point is that this is not filler. All of this serves a purpose and is laying the groundwork for future episodes and to treat this episode as a waste of space will lead to decreased understanding of one of our 2 primary protagonists in this season

mkzxwing said:

You can say the line about it just being about personal taste about nearly everything, but it's just a bunch of relativistic post modern garbage.

Listen. This story has its moments, but its not some awesome original epic, and is flawed in many ways. Eris is, in the end of the day, a boring violent tsundere of which you saw thousands, of not tens of thousands all across anime for decades, and this story doesn't bring anything new or interesting about her to the table either.

Gislane is in a similar boat, not to mention they erased most of her character last season. To focus on them, and some very shoddy fight, over focusing on the one more interesting thing about this story, which is the world and lore really makes no sense. Not to mention that again, its NOT either or, they could have told all of this just as well if it was
a shorter scene. Making a good adaptation is about knowing what's more interesting and what's less, what's important and what's not, then making a good use of the time you have and all visual story telling elements (which is an art in itself, part of why there's such a thing as cinema school), to tell the less interesting but important info in seamless scenes and more or less entertaining way, then keep and capture the attention and interest of the viewer with the more interesting stuff and story elements, and finally take a good cut of time to focus on the main interest points of the story (be it fights, big reveals, whatever).

Last season did it more or less competently, this season just doesn't. And the worst part about this and the end of last season, is that they're trying to rush things to get to the more 'good stuff', all by cutting a TON of interesting things, but they're not making use of the time they saved because they slow themselves down by focusing on less important story elements and events, and doing so in the most time consuming manner possible too. There's a lot of examples for this in the better anime, but i always give the example of Gurren laggan, in just its first half, it tells the story of a shattered humanity, showing a bunch of villages, the world, explains most of the story of how it came to be, has a few epic battles, a SHITTON of well made and decently developed characters with a good bit of screen time to show their attitude, drama, and the story of a boy maturing into a man, then a 'last boss'. That's just in 13 episodes. And it doesn't exactly rush things either. It has its flaws, and i don't even like mecha that much to begin with, but even i'd say that's almost a masterpiece and its among my top favorites, and probably would still be even if i hated everything about it due to how well it tells its story and makes use of its time. Of course i'm not expecting EVERYONE to be that good, but being at least half as good with your time and story telling isn't too hard, and if you make it, you'll most likely get a great result.

GGcc78 said:
Had I simply done as you said you would have a point. The crux of your argument is that this is filler and a waste of time. I (painstakingly I might add) went line by line through the light novel and pulled out specific pages and passages that show that the content within the episode was not filler. Additionally, what you call relativistic post modern garbage I call a literary analysis using pretty established stuff. Where it turns into personal preference is that you dont like what was chosen. That's fine. You don't have to do so. But this conversation started when you said "I dont know where you got that from" when I said this was not filler. I have proven that it is not. I have showed where this stuff comes from within the novel through direct citation. You however have not done the same, nor do I expect you to do so. You also have not read the source material this is based off of. This is a light novel adaptation. It is not a web novel adaptation. Yes, the two are similiar but there are changes as well and things you have identified as filler or deleted content (on multiple occasions I might add); was taken straight from the novel.

And this is another inaccurate statement. I'm sure you would call it post modern garbage but for others who are intersted ill put it out there.

Eris as a character is a reflection of Rudius. Just like Rudius, she has difficulty dealing with the outside world, which is to be expected. Details glossed over in the first season but still mentioned hint that Eris is essentially destined to be a sex slave. Her only purpose in life is to be used as a political tool. Since her father lost a political war, her father has two options. Send her to be a concubine with his political enemy or marry her off to someone and use her as a tool for a future political civil war. her upbringing is warped enough that at the age of 10 her mother was training her on how to use to get what she wants out of men (this was all hinted at when her parents "gifted" her to Rudy on the night of the birthday and talked about in more detail in the light novel). it should be no shock that shes warped and distrustful of others, just like how Rudy was. In much the same way that Roxy was Rudys guide out of this mess, Rudy was Eris's guide out of this. This is why the friendship with Minitona was significant. It mirrored Rudy's first journey outside with Roxy. This was the first time Eris' established a friendship on her own agency. Remember, as close as she was with Rudy and Ghisaline, both were forced on her. Her friendship with Minitona was not forced and was developed on her own. Again, this is all from the Light Novel hence not filler.

The moment you said "less interesting" is the moment you went into personal opinion territory. Again, that's fine but it is YOUR opinion and does nothing to change the fact that this is not filler. Again, this episode being filler was YOUR argument. You might not like the pieces they adapted but to call it filler would be false.

You're gurren laggan example is deeply flawed. Its an original anime, not an adaptation. I cant even give you real counterpoints since its comparing apples to oranges.

dabdabgoose said:
It is stated in the episode 3 months pass in that episode as they stay there for the entire wet season., thats why you see a big improvement in her fighting after they do a little time skip.

Sharpedon said:
A quite better episode than the previous one. Tona is a fun sized treasure and I hope we're going to see her again later, when she, Eris and Rudeus are older. They might indeed come visit with Ghislaine (who I wonder when we'll see where she ended up), so that Tona can see her aunt for the very first time. Tona is a very fast learner too. She bonded a bit too much too fast with Eris though, and thinking Eris betrayed her for leaving she attacked her.

I was almost certain that the big-ass sacred dog was going to leave with Rudeus, particularly when that beast-woman said that it is meant to join a Hero in their journey when it reaches maturity; kind of like a familiar apparently. Does this mean that Rudeus is not a Hero or that both he and the dog are still immature? I think it's the latter; this line was a bit too foreshadowing to have been uttered randomly, and the dog already loves Rudeus.

I've not read the light novel but I've heard this is quite a long story. So, I guess, we will see Rudeus as an adult later on, probably in season 3 - assuming we get another season, of course.

Nurguburu said:
I want to know where is Ghislaine now. I already liked her before....now I love her!

PrimeX said:
Damn they really had to stay there for months just because it's raining? Also, they kept that other guy in jail all these time even though he helped the village? That's harsh.