Wonder Egg Priority Episode 4 Discussion

kunieda said:
This possibility also came to mind, tbh. It seems like they're going to explore her being boyish and other girls being attracted to her (maybe smth related to "girl crushes"), though I'm not sure if it's actually going to be along the lines of "these girls like the idea of me looking like a boy, they don't like me for me and as a girl" (which would have been really interesting to see portrayed and discussed). Let's see how they handle her character, overall.

elany said:


I'm honestly really hyped about the sheer possibility of this. The 'handsome masc looking girl that all the other girls are crushing on (but like, not really, y'know)' is a well established trope but i don't think I've ever seen any series put this particular spin on it. Liking girls and presenting more butch for the sake of it, while not actually wanting to present that way and never knowing if others like you for the girl you are or just for the idea of you that your appearance sells. That's. Yeah that could be interesting.
It would also be a unique examination of class s and girl crushes, like you said, or it could, but i think exploring that on top of everything else might just be a bit too much for a one season anime with 4 leads

kunieda said:
This possibility also came to mind, tbh. It seems like they're going to explore her being boyish and other girls being attracted to her (maybe smth related to "girl crushes"), though I'm not sure if it's actually going to be along the lines of "these girls like the idea of me looking like a boy, they don't like me for me and as a girl" (which would have been really interesting to see portrayed and discussed). Let's see how they handle her character, overall.

kunieda said:
This possibility also came to mind, tbh. It seems like they're going to explore her being boyish and other girls being attracted to her (maybe smth related to "girl crushes"), though I'm not sure if it's actually going to be along the lines of "these girls like the idea of me looking like a boy, they don't like me for me and as a girl" (which would have been really interesting to see portrayed and discussed). Let's see how they handle her character, overall.

RobertBobert said:
Although incest was literally a thing in the very first writing of this show.

B3RyL01 said:
There might be a clue in what the strawmen said about reasons for suicides. They believe men's suicides are goal-oriented (as in, due to a difficulty of a practical nature, like losing a job or becoming disabled), while women's suicides are feeling-oriented (as in, due to having your heart broken or other emotional trauma). This is consistent with what the modern psychiatry tells us about the issue of suicide from a gender-specific perspective. That's not the whole story of course, and there are more than enough exceptions, but that's just what the statistics show. Whether the authors will take this phenomenon at face value and just roll with it, or will they try to deconstruct it somehow remains to be seen.

Kurosawa-san said:
That said, there is another interesting detail. The monster Momoe was fighting at the end was an angry lady who refused to let her inside the women-only carriage. Of course, this hurt Momoe, but also this "nightmare" belongs to the girl who Momoe was protecting in that dream. For the previous girl, it was her abuser, for the idol's fans it was their "crazy obsessed rival", and previously we had an abusive trainer.
The girl who Momoe was protecting appears to be, well, a girly girl. She doesn't have masculine features and style, compared to Momoe. So why is she traumatised by a lady who is stopping men from entering the women-only carriages? Perhaps, this girl is actually transgender and that's why she was scared of the woman who would force her to board the mixed carriage instead, claiming that she is 'a man'. This could explain her suicide as well as why she is more open towards Momoe's gender identity when she finds out about it.

OgiDaWogi said:
Momoe seems visibly uncomfortable whenever another girl hits on her or whenever someone points out how boyish she looks. My guess is that her friend killed herself because she was in love with her but Momoe had to reject her because she isn't into that. Now she dresses up like a boy because she thinks it's her fault that her friend died and wants to make sure that no other girls like her friend end up the same way. It's really sad, honestly, I wish that she wouldn't blame herself for it.
Nonetheless, she was very happy when Ai said she looks like a girl, and earlier she said "I'm a girl!" to that ghost monster. I believe that people who says "trans allegory" and the like are looking into it way too much.

nibelungsgold said:
Many kinda assume Momoe is a lesbian but I'm pretty sure she is straight
1. She was noticeably uncomfortable every time girls confessed to her
2. It seems that the girl from her flashback killed herself after being rejected - obv lesbians can reject other girls, but still, not being into girls is a solid reason for a rejection, and it would also make her friend's situation even more hopeless (not only are her feelings not mutual, but they never will be), thus pushing her closer to suicide
3. "Adam's apples are sexy" isn't really a lesbian remark to make
None of those really prove anything, but I do think it points straight rather than not.
Ngl I hope that's what they're going for, it would make for a more refreshing and original (and more tragic in a sense) story; we don't really get LGBT+ themes explored from perspectives of straight characters.

IBloodstormI said:
Great episode. It was over so fast. The credits started and I was not ready for it.

Aside from that, why does everyone assume Momo is a lesbian? She has a chat right at the end with Meiru and Ai about Adam's apples and calls them sexy, assumed to be talking about men. I think the more likely scenario here is that she struggles with being seen as masculine while wanting to be seen as a girl, and when her friend tried to come on to her, she rejected her, and said friend ended her own life later possible due to that. Likely, she started dressing like a boy because she keeps being told she looks like one. Her eggs seems to deal with self esteem and maybe unwanted sexual advances (we barely get a glimpse into the second one, though, so don't really know what was the issue there), and also maybe dealing with the fact the a girl can like a girl not just because she looks like a guy (probably what she assumed about her friend).

Dracus said:


I fully agree. The amount of people here who simply wants her to be gay or trans no matter what scares me, honestly. This stereotype is very offensive to the real-life straight tomboyish girls and they don't even realise it.

aguywithaname said:

Thank you for being one of the few sound-minded people in this thread.

Kurosawa-san said:

That said, there is another interesting detail. The monster Momoe was fighting at the end was an angry lady who refused to let her inside the women-only carriage. Of course, this hurt Momoe, but also this "nightmare" belongs to the girl who Momoe was protecting in that dream. For the previous girl, it was her abuser, for the idol's fans it was their "crazy obsessed rival", and previously we had an abusive trainer.
The girl who Momoe was protecting appears to be, well, a girly girl. She doesn't have masculine features and style, compared to Momoe. So why is she traumatised by a lady who is stopping men from entering the women-only carriages? Perhaps, this girl is actually transgender and that's why she was scared of the woman who would force her to board the mixed carriage instead, claiming that she is 'a man'. This could explain her suicide as well as why she is more open towards Momoe's gender identity when she finds out about it.

Glordit said:


Sadly, a handful of people want representation so badly, they clutch at straws and are willing to alienate some of the fanbase or chase others away for not agreeing with them.

Personally, I don't care who or what a character is. It's up to the writers to decide those things.

elany said:


I feel like this might be slightly unfair, given what most people have been actually saying - that's she's a very accurate portrayal of many queer people and they wouldn't be surprised if she turned out to be queer herself. It's hardly clutching at straws to say "yeah, this hits close to home, so I could see it going this way"

We're all leaving it up to the writers to decide on where they want to take the story, but it's just the nature of theorising to question authorial intent. Can hardly fault people for wanting to speculate about a show they like, no? That's why we're all here after all.

elany said:


I feel like this might be slightly unfair, given what most people have been actually saying - that's she's a very accurate portrayal of many queer people and they wouldn't be surprised if she turned out to be queer herself. It's hardly clutching at straws to say "yeah, this hits close to home, so I could see it going this way"

We're all leaving it up to the writers to decide on where they want to take the story, but it's just the nature of theorising to question authorial intent. Can hardly fault people for wanting to speculate about a show they like, no? That's why we're all here after all.

IBloodstormI said:
Great episode. It was over so fast. The credits started and I was not ready for it.

Aside from that, why does everyone assume Momo is a lesbian? She has a chat right at the end with Meiru and Ai about Adam's apples and calls them sexy, assumed to be talking about men. I think the more likely scenario here is that she struggles with being seen as masculine while wanting to be seen as a girl, and when her friend tried to come on to her, she rejected her, and said friend ended her own life later possible due to that. Likely, she started dressing like a boy because she keeps being told she looks like one. Her eggs seems to deal with self esteem and maybe unwanted sexual advances (we barely get a glimpse into the second one, though, so don't really know what was the issue there), and also maybe dealing with the fact the a girl can like a girl not just because she looks like a guy (probably what she assumed about her friend).

Also, for people complaining about the very rudimentary explanation of male vs female suicides by the wonder twins:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide

IBloodstormI said:


Lots of posts I read through this don't question the direction she is headed as a form of discussion, but outright state "she's a lesbian" or "she's transgender". None of her written lines nor the scenes we were shown really alludes to this, in fact, it alludes quite to the opposite (unless she actually turns out to be biologically male, but we have no reason to believe so right now [The Accas reinforcing this]). She very clearly struggles with not wanting to be seen as male/masculine, but dresses as such out of a feeling of inferiority or unworthiness of being seen as a female/feminine ("These clothes suit me better" I believe she says). That is why it surprises her when the second girl she saves tells her that male or female did not matter, she still loves her (probably tying into why her friend killed herself, or at least why Momo feels she did), and why it means so much to her when Ai sees her as a crying girl. The flashback of her friend, and comments made by her toward the end of the episode, also seem to point that she did not expect a girl to be interested in her as a girl (I take this as she believes in her head, because of her own issues with her apparent masculinity as a girl, that a girl who liked her liked her because she looked like a boy which she doesn't want to hear, because she wants to be seen as a girl), plus her short chat about Adam's apples with the other girls points more to that she is interested in boys and not girls.

Azenith said:


I wouldn't get too offended. They weren't really downplaying anyone's suicide. They were making the observation that men and women (the majority of the time) take different paths to reach their conclusion. Men being goal orientated, means suicide is their goal as everything else around them has failed. Where as with women, they take a more emotional route, where suicide could be a spur of the moment during their heightened period of pain. Often times leading them to regret their decision of suicide. And resulting in the creation of this weird dream world that they are in. Basically all these egg girls regretted their decision, it's not saying that boys can't go there too.

Anyway we don't even know what these egg people even are yet, or what they actually signify

Azenith said:


I totally agree with this. And I do think a lot of people are taking it super personally, which looking at the bigger picture is very unfair.



I'm not gonna rule out the possibility of her being a Lesbian. But I also don't think how someone presents themselves (whether masculine or feminine) should be what dictates their sexuality. Tomboys can just as likely be straight as they can be gay or whatever else. Which is why I think most people are quick to conclude that she's gay.

So far we are shown that she's been quite uncomfortable/confused with the confessions of all of the girls she saves and including who we will assume is her best friend in those flashbacks. We have to assume that what led to her friend to commit suicide and her manifestation of guilt, traces back to that very confession. Perhaps she couldn't return her friend's feelings or perhaps she actually did but then they were ostracised for it. Eitherway pushing her friend over the edge. Her dressing up as a boy could be a manifestation of that guilt she's holding from either outcomes. I don't think she actually really wants to be seen as masculine or a boy, but uses it as an outlet or type of protection for dealing with her trauma.

If we go with the first outcome. You could also argue that the reason she may have rejected her friend is because she herself is still conflicted about her sexuality and or gender identity. She may have believed two girls cannot have a real romance. You can assume this by picking up on her reaction when the second girl she saves mentions that she didn't care if she was a boy or a girl, and that she's fallen in love with her anyway. Perhaps the realisation is finally dawning on her that two girls loving eachother is ok. Making her feel even more guilty or confused (even if she did have feelings for friend or not). This frustration of hers also shows in the first girl she saves.

Now, the only thing that's holding me back from being really sure that she is gay is her passing comment about adam apples being hot. This could mean nothing, just something the writers wanted to put in there to throw us off. But it's still something I can't ignore. This doesn't rule out that she could be bi, but it's all just speculation at this point and I'm still leaning on the side of her being more bi/straight instead of gay. But I honestly don't mind or see a problem with the writers taking either route, coz it's been handled pretty well so far. I'm really enjoying this show and it's way of story telling. They reveal enough to keep you intrigued but not enough to lose the mystery. I'm really excited for the next episode!

Sorry for the long post lmao

alm958 said:

The statements they made about male suicide are downright misinformation tho.
Very few real people have suicide as a 'goal'. My friend that killed himself a few years ago was literally hanging out with friends messing around the night before. He was applying and accepted to colleges. The show is also implying that men dont ever regret suicide but women do which is dumb as hell.

alm958 said:

The statements they made about male suicide are downright misinformation tho.
Very few real people have suicide as a 'goal'. My friend that killed himself a few years ago was literally hanging out with friends messing around the night before. He was applying and accepted to colleges. The show is also implying that men dont ever regret suicide but women do which is dumb as hell.

Azenith said:


It is a little unfair to say there is no evidence whatsoever. The story at this point can still go in many directions. I just think going down hard on who's speculation is more correct is definitely little unfair

IBloodstormI said:
Nah, good post. I agree with you mostly. I almost said in one of my posts that maybe she is bisexual, but I honestly do not feel enough evidence has presented itself for that conclusion. She does not really reciprocate to the girls that fall for her.

I interpreted the thing with the second girl more as Momo's beginning to realise that maybe girls like her and not just because she looks like a boy, which she clearly resents. My theory is that, due to her struggle with her image, she rejected and maybe even resented her friend believing it was only because she looked boyish, and now feels guilty because her friend killed herself which she believes is her doing.Maybe this will lead to her being able to accept the feeling of another girl, and even reciprocate, but right now, it seems more just to be tied into her own body image issues than her struggle with sexual orientation.

If it turns out otherwise, I welcome it all the same.

IBloodstormI said:


I didn't really say none whatsoever, just that I didn't think it alluded to it (her being gay and/or trans) more than it didn't allude to it.

RayReynolds said:
The idol stuff gotten slightly worse with the sacrifice being shrugged off as nothing, the 2 girls 'saving the day' by being fangirling extra hard, and being fixed/growing by redirecting their fandom to other people before being booted out of purgatory or hell or whatever.
The second half of the episode also got a bit weird. Not only was it kind of floundering, but it decided to start throwing things out like "Oh, there's a boy hell and a girl hell because of all those FEELS girls have." I don't even know where to begin to parse that.

The focus of the episode though was the new girl who apparently keeps being mistaken for a boy and having girls aggressively come on to her who is apparently stuck fighting an endless parade of train molesters. Once or twice, sure, thematic. But she's three for three, which is getting a little silly, and six for six if you also count the protagonists and another fairly weird conversation about how sexy her neck is. I have a feeling that the series will not treat this issue in the correct way, it's Japan I do not expect anything from them.

I feel like there's a little bit of mixed message there with the first one about a girl who was shamed by her parents for not letting herself be molested for the betterment of the family, who then proceeded to let herself be molested to kill the monster. That scene both over-objectified her and didn't give her enough agency to really show her taking control over it, just letting herself be molested for revenge instead of her dad's job(?) I suppose?

KANLen09 said:
THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
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The 4th and final chosen Wonder Egg tomboy girl: Momoe "Momotaro" Sawaki, tackling issues about sexual harassment and gender identity (making that uncomfortable "trans allegory / transgender" topic made known, a first in anime in decades).

deg said:
nice so the immortality plot is not forgotten lol i thought Rika will be petrified until the enemy is defeated by Ai but i guess not since ye they are immortal like episode 1 shows

Momo is a lesbian but not a tomboy i guess

i wonder what Ai remembers by the name Sawaki though in the end

and the action sakuga is awesome again

helter12skelter said:
so they said women are weaker on this episode when it comes to suicide reasons and yall ate that shit? disgusting. i really hope this turns into a social critique of some form, given the fact that we also have a new character that may or may not be in the lgbt spectrum.

dasprn said:
The episodes are getting heavy now. Boys suicide are goal orientated and girls suicide are emotion oriented? Couldn't have said it better.
That harassment part was hard to learn. How can a mother say to suck it up to her abused child? If your own parents don't save you what else is there to believe in? If she was my daughter. I would have served that executive on a lasagna plate to the wolves. Piece of shit!!




What was the previous anime with such trope?

Azenith said:


How did you interpret that to mean women are weaker?

helter12skelter said:


the character literally said women are moved by emotion, meaning they have no control.

I think you should read further up to see what people's takes on this are. I personally think a lot of people are taking things very personal and it's interesting how many varying views people have, for evidence not clearly presented in the show, it is just their own speculations that is what is swaying their feelings and not what the show is actually solidly representing.

A good link from Bloodstorm who posted this earlier. Regarding the boy and girl hell you speak of. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide

degandagan said:
So, is everyone going to gloss over the "men kill themselves because g o a l s", but "women kill themselves cause e m o t i o n s"? and they even add that women are easily susceptible. Wtf mate? that's some messed up reasoning right there
btw, what would a "goal" even be?
but alas, I shouldn't expect much from a country that historically deals horribly with such themes, at least they are trying, right? right?!

other than that, and last episode's glorification of " it's my depressed friend that should've reached out to me for help, not the other way around!", this shows looks promising

Fran said:
does anyone know the va for the black long haired girl? i swear she looks and sounds exacly like chitanda